Astonishing ZERO FRICTION CYCLING Data Will Blow Your Mind!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ค. 2023
- Josh comes back to a "Part 2" of explaining Zero Friction Cycling Lubricant Testing data for chain wear and efficiency. Lots of data within the data for people to consider for their riding/real world situations in each of the wear blocks in the spreadsheets.
-- LINKS --
"Part 1" - Josh helps you crack the code of Zero Friction Cycling Lubricant Testing Data: • Understanding the INSA...
Zero Friction Cycling website: zerofrictioncycling.au/lubete...
Zero Friction Cycling TH-cam channel: / @zerofrictioncycling992
SILCA Synergetic wet lube: silca.cc/collections/chain-lu...
SILCA Secret Chain Blend Hot Melt Wax: silca.cc/collections/chain-lu...
Josh is wearing the SILCA VW Van T-shirt: silca.cc/collections/shirts/p...
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SILCA website: silca.cc/
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▬▬▬▬ ABOUT SILCA ▬▬▬▬
Founded in Milan in 1917 and now based in Indianapolis, SILCA is renowned for its passion for cycling. Led by cycling industry leader, Josh Poertner, the brand has expanded from the iconic SuperPista pump to a full range of high-end cycling tools and gear, collaborating with UCI World Tour teams to enhance cycling performance. SILCA combines tradition with innovation, inspiring cyclists to enjoy both riding and maintenance.
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I'm a recent hot wax convert (still on my first waxed chain). What finally pushed me to convert was your new Stripper product as it of course simplified the dreaded pre-wax step but specifically significantly reducing the need to store volatile chemicals for a long time. As the Stripper wasn't available locally (e.g. Amazon), the shipping costs from your store was excessive but the charts from Zero Friction basically, over time, demolished the shipping costs.
During a recent Amazon Prime day, I purchased an inexpensive pot for melting. What added confidence, to that purchase, was that Amazon had a section labeled "Frequently bought together", which included Silca Hot Wax, so I know it was in the right pot. As I'm so pleased with my initial experience, I've now added a second chain to implement a multi-chain wax duo.
Despite reading all the benefits of waxing, the cleanliness of the chain, has to be experienced to be believed. It's things like post-ride wipe downs of the bike having the back of your hand coming in contact with the drive chain no longer results in a black smear. At least for now, it doesn't cease to amaze.
Thanks for the great products but especially the brilliant simplification of the pre-wax chain prep Stripper product.
Brilliant again thanks josh!
Just a quick note and apologies re the size of the league table for Single Application Longevity testing. The original S.A.L test i was doing proved insufficient and so i had to scrap that data and start over, and then i typically only test lubricants in S.A.L that have tested well in the main test (with some higher profile lubricant exceptions). If the lubricant was pretty meh or poor in main test, normally i will not bother with the resources to test it in S.A.L as it is just not worth having on anyones shopping list as an option.
Also an update re cost to run, i am working with Omni Calculator to have an online calculator for this built which will be expanded across a much wider range of groupsets - version one should be out in next 2 to 4 weeks hopefully. However a key point is the higher tier your groupset is, and thus higher component cost - the less important the lubricant cost is IF it genuinely delivers low wear (ie - NOT something like Muc-Off Ludicrous AF that was both higher wear AND extremely expensive - that is not a winning combo for you wallet). A low tier groupset such as tiagra or Sora, sure - if the wear rates for a cheap poor performing lubricant - that will not hurt that much. But if you say spend $30 more on your lubricant to save $300 in wear (or more) per 10,000km of riding, that is a great return on your $30 investment. Warren Buffet and Charlie Munger would fully endorse if they ever discovered the world of bicycle chain lubricants :)
Can we get a few close up pictures of what a properly waxed chain should look like after a few rides? I’m curious what is a normal amount of wax build up versus too much “gunk”.
hot waxed chain, wipe with old towel and it is good, more wax you can not extract from chain
I learn something new every time, thank you.
Rather than add wet lube, remove your noisy waxed chain and replace it with your spare freshly waxed chain. It takes seconds to do that especially if the chain has a bit of wax tension to help guide it through the pulleys. I add a quick link to the spare chain packet just in case. If applicable, make sure your SAG team knows if a quick link has a specific trick - like SRAM Eagle’s flat and concave sides - a roadside fix takes a minute but its a pain. Great videos as always.
Totally. Putting a new chain is the way to go on those Ultra Distance Gravel Races. It weighs like 240g
That works too! We've had TransAmerica, GreatDivide, and RAAM riders do this with excellent results. With SAG it's extra easy as you can be rewaxing chains in the RV or whatever as you go.. very effective!
I love the Silca hot melt wax - but for a quick re-lube in the middle of a race Squirt works really well. I know it would be "better" if cured, but it is thick enough and oily enough that it works pretty well when run fresh - as opposed to the Silca drip wax which just all runs off your chain if you don't let it set. Also it comes in a little 15ml bottle which fits in great with your spares!
The thing to be careful about with Squirt or Smoove, is that since it doesn't penetrate into the chain, it will mask the sound of a chain where the lubricant is breaking down, but it isn't actually getting in there and lubricating at the pin/roller level. So on a chain that's being pushed past the lubricant breakdown point, you would be much better to transition to Synergetic or NFS or other oil based lube, which will flush some dirt as it is applied, but will also fully penetrate and be immediately functional as a lubricant at the pin/roller level.
Love the simplicity of waxing chains after the hassle of totally removing the factory grease. Watching these videos kind of makes me want to invest in a belt drivetrain tho...
I have a belt drivetrain on a commuter bike with internal gear hub and it's amazing, but I also use SuperSecret on it, as it gets incredibly squeaky and loud when it gets dusty, which is something nobody tells you up front!
that is why i use inductive heater to heat up chain on bike for hot waxing
Hi Josh thanks for another awesome vid!!! It took me 2 and a half yrs to use up 2 large bottles of ss drip(topping up from ss hot melt) lot 2 I now have 2 more bottles of ss drip lot 3 which is much darker in color(more tungsten disulfide?)should I expect even better results with the lot3?I've watched and use all your tips and trick vids on the hot melt,I bought the us cleaner that you recommended,I melt the hot melt in the sous bag which is in the us cleaner and do a 10 min cycle on full wave then let the wax cool to 140f before removing the chain,with awesome results!!!Do you have plans to do some tips and trick vids for the wax x,I tried letting the wax x cool to 140f went to give it a swish at 150f and it was glued to the wax pot had to reheat and removed at 160f.Cheers!!!
Thanks for breaking down the charts and clearing the results. If you apply a wet lube on top of a hot wax, will you have to do a full clean (with turpentine etc) before the next hot wax-treatment?
Yes, you will need to do a degrease of the chain, but it won't have to be a full deep clean as the synergetic isn't nearly as tenacious as factory grease. Chain Stripper works well for this, but a good 10 minutes of agitation in acetone will also get the job done.
The needle of my SYNERGETIC broke so I used it without, giving bigger drops of that wonderful lube to every roller. Guess I was fortunate in a way 😊
Thanks Josh! Very helpful. I'm all in on hot melt wax except for my bike that lives permanently on my Wahoo Kickr inside. I use Synergetic for that. I have the needle applicator on that bottle. Should I be using two drops or is one still fine because it's indoor only. Thanks!
One drop is fine for indoor, the bigger drops just help flush dirt better, but that shouldn't be an issue. You should also check out SynergE for your indoor.. ~3x the single application longevity of Synergetic and no flinging even under extreme efforts.
@@SILCAVelo Thanks! Yeah, I learned about SynergE RIGHT after I made the Synergetic order and it was too late. It's ok, it still works great and I'm not powerful enough to fling anything! I'll get SynergE next time.
Its not possible to clean the chain within a race or trip but in general if you relube a dirty chain you will flush more dirt in than out!
I can't see a chain wear gauge in the Silca line up, do you plan on making one?
We don't, but we recommend either the KMC digital one or the Shimano TL-CN42
Is there a a difference between different production batches of the Silca Super Secret drip wax (e.g. an improved formula through newer iterations), and if so, which lot did ZFC test and show results for in his charts?
The formula is the same now as what Adam tested (which was Batch2), but the original batches were all based on what period during COVID they were bottled. Batch1 was bottled in my garage, Batch2 was bottled by hand at SILCA and was mixed in 55gallon drums, and Batch3 was our first real production on our fancy mixing/bottling line that we installed. The real improvements in Batch3 and the current production which no longer has batch numbers on it, are from consistency in the manufacturing process. We had a lot of variance in Batch1 and 2 due to all of the hand mixing and weighing and such, as well as just the small volumes we were working with. The one thing that we learned from Adam's testing of the UFO2.0 which was modelled after SuperSecret was that we needed to extend the drying time. Adam did his test with 1 drop of SuperSecret and 8 hours dry time and UFO called for 2 drops per roller and 24 hours dry time. When we evaluated this, we found that using 2 drops and increasing drying time made for a notable improvement in our formula as well, so we have updated our instructions to reflect that, but as Adam's tests take so long and the formula was the same, it was never retested to see what improvement those changes actually make.
@@SILCAVelo Many thanks for the excellent and informative reply
@@SILCAVelo Thanks Josh! I've been using silca hot wax with generous SS drip wax topups (batch 3) between hot waxes. Works great for all day gravel rides leaving an almost clean chain. The latest SS formulation is darker in color appears to; be easier to apply, wets better and dry faster. It seems to be slightly stickier to gravel dust.
Should I just wipe clean and reapply top ups as usual?
Have you ever tested motorcycle chain wax? Heard a fellow rider say he uses DuPont spray wax for motorcycles. Any experience with this on bike chains, if so, how good & what’s the comparison to Silca wax?
Motorcycle chains have o-rings or x-rings inside them which allows the insides to be greased. Motorcycle chain wax is therefore not meant to be a lubricant for the high pressure insides of the chain, but rather a surface protectant that helps fill the sideplates and coat the outside of the chain to help repel dust and keep dirt and sand from reaching those o-rings where it could damage them. Adam has tested Boeshield T-9 which is incredibly similar to DuPont motorcycle was and according to the MSDS actually contains nearly identical ingredients and ratios, so his data on T9 should be a good proxy for the DuPont product.
So, once and for all, is it okay to arrive home after a wet ride and throw the chain (which will be wet and i guess a little dirty, for sure cleaner than using wet lube though) directly into the pot without rinsing it with hot water and dry it previously?
Yes.. I personally boil it in hot water for a minute to remove road grit and old wax, and then throw that into the wax, but the amount that comes off in that process is just a few grams of stuff.. so throwing the dirty chain directly into the wax risks some contamination long term, but it will be very small. As for the chain being wet, you just need to leave it in the wax long enough that the water can boils off. Usually like 10 minutes and wait for any bubbles in the wax to stop coming to the top.
you've talked about how microfiber cloths really are the best for getting off dirt and debris, how do you clean said cloths? I just find mine stain really badly and I can't use them for anything but chain cleaning
I spray degreaser on the cloth, rub it and rinse it before machine-washing it. Yet I wouldn't use it for anything else.
Chain stripper will remove grease from microfiber, but it expensive. Shout has a grease remover product that is pretty cheap and also works. Then wash them on warm with something like Tide Free and Gentle, you don't want dyes or fragrances in there as they can get trapped in the microfibers resulting in reduced cleaning power. I always use an extra rinse cycle as well on MF cloths as they are just so darn good at holding onto stuff at the fiber level.
Great insight! Two questions....
1. Is the Super Secret chain lube specifically formulated to go on top of Silca's wax? Would it work just as well to put over, say, MSpeed Wax?
2. Is there any potential benefit to waxing a chain inside an ultrasonic cleaner? Or is that just getting too marginal to matter?
Yes, the SuperSecret is exactly the hot melt, that we high pressure emulsify into water, so it's identical once it has dried. You can use it over the new Molten Speed as it is an almost exact replica of SILCA hot melt.
Waxing in the ultrasonic just gives you more consistent WS2 mixing, as that additive is quite dense compared to the wax it tends to sink and then need a good bit of agitation to get it back into a consistent solution, and the ultrasonic does that better than almost any other type of mixing you can think of. But performance wise, it is very, very marginal, so it's the technically best solution, but not something you will feel or even notice.
What if we get some cheapo ski wax or even candle wax in its own crock pot to clean the chain
Would love to see the prices of nano graphene-infused lubricant come down soon. Waxing twice a month instead of twice a week would be so nice!
As graphene prices come down to earth the two will become more similar in price. At the moment, pure, single layer graphene like we use costs around $20,000 USD per kilogram compared to ~$500 per kg for 200nm Tungsten Disulfide and $20 per kg for 1micron PTFE/Teflon
@@SILCAVelo I have no doubt it will drop in price, but not holding my breath. Getting a consistent size and shape to the nano platelets is complex and highly patented... but if graphene truly is the material of the future (batteries, etc), manufacturing costs have to come down.
Josh, while I have your ear, did you increase the melt temp of your hot wax base? I could benefit from a harder paraffin for summer application.
How to clean the synergetic lube out of a waxed chain before re-waxing it?
Chain Stripper or acetone will remove synergetic.
quick link re-use and/or buying a new one for each waxing is a topic that needs to be discussed.
This is hard to cover officially but most quick links are good for ~5 uses regardless of what is stated, but officially we have to say 'Do what your manufacturer says'
Roger doger@@SILCAVelo
I get a lot more than 5 uses per link. But you can buy links that are suitable for multiple uses if you are concerned.
Hi Josh! i am user of secret chain wax, i professional rider. I would like you to inform us of the savings in W that occur with the use of this system instead of using oil in a clean transmission. Have you done tests to make a comparison in a TT test for example? Thank you
if I need to measure wear on my waxed chain. should it be when it has just been driven or when it has just been waxed?
Wear measurements are only valid when the chain is stripped and void of wax or lube as the lube will fill up some of the space making it appear less worn.
what about cx racing? still hot wax rather than wet lube?
Absolutely.. the advantages of hot wax actually increase as conditions get worse.
Not disputing, but how does 1x wear twice as fast? (I run 2x Shimano by the way)
Not exactly that it wears twice as fast, but if you only have 1 chainring, it takes ALL the wear all the time compared to a 2x setup which shares the wear accross 2 rings.. it also tends to be smaller than a big ring in a 2x setup meaning it has fewer teeth to spread the total wear.. also those ultralight cassettes typically use aluminum in the larger cogs to save weight and those wear much faster than steel.
@@SILCAVelo Ah I was going to say, I spend about 90% of my time in the big ring anyway (but that 10% in the small ring is crucial!) but the less teeth point does make sense . Definitely agree about aluminium cassettes. Sticking with steel on those. I imagine on a 1x a 10t cog would wear even quicker than an 12 or 11t cog too.
So if lower wear equals lower friction, how about running a motorcycle oring chain on the same set up for 12hr and measure wear rate. Ill bet 50k there will be zero wear, but much higher wattage loss. So no, lower wear doesn't equal less wattage.
I'm honestly confused. On one hand you regularly claim that rewaxing can be done every 1000km or so but now you say that under bad conditions 150km might be all you get out of a hot waxed chain 😮
Rewaxing at 1000km works if conditions are good, but yes, in extreme conditions, 150km might be all you get even with hot wax. This is why we want you to look at the single application longevity charts, in extreme conditions the application life of all lubes can really be reduced.. in the dry dusty conditions using Boeshield T9, the entire wear life of the chain is consumed in 93km so a proper relube interval for T9 is ~30km in the conditions where it's 150km for hot melt!!
I always find suspicious when there is a strong trend in the bycicle world and even more when there appears to be only a single source of "scientific" tests.
Luckily there are more sources! 😂😂
@@Fanaleds-software anedoctal, yes, technical not so much. All sources I'm seeing goes to the same source: ZFC. And some behaviours and statements from ZFC makes me very suspitious. Such as talking shit about some overpriced products and then selling them in their site, etc. But hey... everyone can test it and see for themselves.