In the first Guilty Gear you get infinite access to Chaos Attacks (super attacks) when below 50% HP (as if there wasnt enough broken stuff there already).
A pretty good honorable mention would be the Emotion Meter from Aquapazza. I have seen multiple clips of that game and people just dying off of one combo because the character was angry.
i like how strider in umvc3 w/ lv. 3 x-factor gets the lowest damage boost out of the entire cast but the highest speed bonus man just becomes a speed demon menace outmaneuvering everything you throw out at him so easily
Hearing people both talk about MvC3 being the best fighting game while also hearing the same people shit on comeback mechanics and how they ruin games is something that used to make me feel like an insane person and it was SUPER common.
Cause we hate dealing with lvl 3 Virgil, we wish he wasn't a thing LOL. BUT, we have things we can do to prevent it from happening. As HORRID as Virgil is in lvl 3 X-factor we have the tools to stop him. Snapping him in he falls like a sack of potatoes and has little to no options and must deal with a incoming mixup. So even though its still an issue even the worst teams still have options to mitigate it.
Because x factor is more of a win more mechanic to alot of players, I'll gladly pop it to take out their point character any day or to extend a combo so I can get a HKD and set up mix.
Really depends on your team. Importance of lv.3 Xfactor really depends how important your anchor is. Like for a Zero May Cry team you killing a character to set up and coming mix is way more helpful than lv3 Virgil sitting on the bench just in case Zero dies. But a Dark Phoenix team or a MoriDoom would want to hold onto their lv3 Xfactor even if it means they might have to give up on an opportunity to kill a character.
You can completely negate the chip damage from x factor level 3 Arthur when he does his projectile infinite by delaying your pushblocks to a certain rhythm
I remember, before they nerfed megazords, I could win somewhat regularly online in BFTG simply by waiting to the right time and activating. It lasts longer based on how many characters are dead, and when you are active the opponent could not activate theirs (this might have changed since then). So if you're on your last character, and they are also, and you activate first. . . Sayonara.
I was NOT expecting Sonic The Fighters to show up. Honestly, I think that game gets a bad rep. It's a really fun Virtua Fighter clone (made by some of the VF devs!) with a couple interesting mechanics (namely, how it handles blocking). It's a shame the Ketchup system is so busted cause if it weren't there I could see this having a niche scene.
@@zeroderorero3948 It's talked about in the video. It's a comeback mechanic. People call it 'Ketchup' because your health bar changes colors from green, to yellow, to red.
It's not a good game man. Even with our simplistic minds back then who didn't care about footsies, game mechanics, or complicated stuff in fighting games, it was still boring, and not fun to play.
Popping in to say One) Kinda surreal seing Sonic the Fighters in a JMCrofts video. Two) StF does have a fairly small competitive scene, believe it or not. Three) Ketchup can get really insane in some cases. Bark esspecially can just knock you down from full health to almost half with one strike when the life-gap gets big enough from my experience.
Sailor Moon S has the same desperation system as Kof94 with infinite supers at low health. all I know is Venus has a plus on block desperation that does a ton of chip damage and does like 50% if it hits you. so I think in some matchups if you get stuck in the corner when shes at low health she kinda just dunks on you and you die lol
It looks even sillier than that on paper. Venus desp is 14f start up and then it has five different hitboxes that do about 10% of your life on chip, 50% if any one of them hits, and and 75% on counter hit. Dumb guard cancels on the fourth hitbox will have you take counter hit on the fifth and just die. Thankfully this doesn’t happen all that often between it’s short range and Venus slow speed.
Not sure if this counts as a comeback mechanic but in One Punch Man: A Hero Noone Knows it's a 3v3 arena fighting game if you select Saitama you're effectively forced to fight with only 2 characters until the Saitama timer runs out and once it does you're treated to playing with Saitama who's invincible to all attacks and literally one shots everything.
Wouldn't really count as a comeback mechanic because you have to be evasive to wait for the timer to run out, or do well in the fight with dodges, counters, and long combos to speed up the timer. If you're just getting your head kicked in, you'll never actually get Saitama to show up. It's more like a reward for doing well than pity for losing.
Interesting, I had assumed that those ultras in SF4 actually would scale back a bit to prevent that type of comeback, and give the fighter which had the upper hand for most of the match one last shot to win...if it was close enough.
One thing to note is that what is being shown there are level 2 Ultras, when most of the time you'll only see level 1 Ultras. Damage in vanilla certainly was higher but the difference between a normal and max charge Ultra can be around 200 damage.
It wasn't really the ultras. It was just a few characters who had low scaling and really good ultras that they could combo into. It was a decided minority. SF4 over its entire lifespan had pretty lopsided matchups all over the roster.
@@Zetact_ What are you even talking about? There was no "level 1" nor "level 2" ultras. Why are you making stuff up? If you lose half your health (or with white damage), you can use your ultra. The more health you lose, the more your ultra meter fills up, and the more damage it does.
Always click when i see your lists. They never fail to be interesting. Covering games from all eras and it seems no topic is too obscure or granular that you wont cover it. Always a treat.
The most cursed practitioner of X Factor is definitely Dark Phoenix. Her projectiles. Just everything. Once she transforms with x factor I just put the controller down. Lol
You brought up UMVC3's X factor but not Dark Phoenix. Level 3 X factor kept Dark Phoenix, a ridiculously strong character who had sharp health drain for a good reason, alive longer and buffed her further. If a player had Phoenix on their team, you knew they'd try to keep enough meter to unleash Dark Phoenix as an anchor and trigger X factor right then and there.
I remember that at tournaments someone would run Wesker + Haggar + Phoenix and would always just clean house with Lvl 3 XF Dark Phoenix. When Wesker died, Haggar would usually die quickly after because of the Lariat assist spam, then they'd always have 5 bars for the DP super. Then they pop XF and just melt all the remaining opponents since the damage buff of DP + lvl 3 was so broken.
I'm surprised Smash 4 wasn't mentioned. Rage was introduced in this game, and made it to where the higher your percentage is, the more knockback you deal. It's broken in several ways. 1.) Some characters actually get worse with rage because the increased knockback makes their comboes harder or even impossible to do. 2.) Some characters, such as Mario, Peach or Samus could literally kill the opponent at 0% because rage affected multi-hit moves. Since the multi-hits usually have extremely high base knockback to ensure they connect into the finisher properly, doing a reverse up b could KO an opponent at 0%. 3.) Lucario already had a comeback mechanic of his own, which stacks on top of rage. If he's at around 100%, he can KO opponents below 40%. 4.) Heavies generally hit really hard, and rage only intensified this. DK could kill at around 50% with Cargo Up Throw to up air. Ultimate fixed rage some by removing its ability to affect multi-hits and reducing its general power a bit. It still screws over characters who don't want the increased knockback on their main combo moves.
Yeah in Samsho 5 special there's a pretty significant comeback mechanic called State of Nothingness. With it you can slow down time for your opponent. Making everything they do extremely slow. Including their recovery after being hit. Allowing you to create custom combos for the duration. Which can easily lead to 90% damage. Some characters even have ways to combo into State of Nothingness. However, it's balanced by two factors. One is that it requires you to sacrifice your Rage meter for the rest of that match and two, that it can only be done on the game winning round for your opponent.
great to see ya back making this kinda list content, love them so much and I get to learn something about old games I used to play (had no idea that low health + full bar on KoF 94 was almost instant kill
On the topic of KoF 94, The Last Blade also does that. You have your regular Super but when you're health flashes red you get to do your super for free and you get access to your Super Duper.
Alpha 2 giving the round loser a nearly 10% damage buff is pretty broken, especially for characters with multihit specials and supers the damage difference becomes quickly apparent
GNT4 has an amazing come-back mechanic with teleports. You gain meter from dealing and taking damage, and whenever you are in a damaged state (even if you are thrown and flying mid-air) you can press a single button, teleport next to the opponent and hit them with a cross-up that sends the opponent back to neutral. You can do this at any point in the game, as long as you have half of your meter full. and remember, getting hit also fills your meter, and you get this whenever you are in any damaged state, even mid-combo. It really forces your opponent to respect your meter and play fair or they might over-extend and get countered
I don't think that's entirely fair to call it a comeback mechanic, it's more an intrinsic mechanic along the lines of a traditional combo breaker, and yes I'm speaking as someone with probably more experience in the clash of Ninja series than anybody else in these comments (so far)
Also agreed that substitution/KnJ and teleports in Clash of Ninja or later Budokai games don't really count. For the former, that's 3/4 meters and some players use KnJ safe combos anyway. Same goes for Burst though I guess some games reward it for getting hit mid-round as a bonus resource. Early BlazBlue only gave you another one if you lost one round, but you'd only get two in total.
As a pure UMvC3 player, definitely can attest that XF is crazy broken. Most characters have an infinite to varying degrees of difficulty (Iron man, Phoenix etc) and swag (Doom!), but I still wouldn't have it any other way.. Dark Vergil is dumb, hate watching DMC/Vergil anchor teams, the epitome is which is the Zero May Cry (Zero/Dante/Vergil) team.. always skip watching those matches... and MorriDoom shells... ugh... Thanks for the video! Appreciate your content :)
Wolverine XF was broken in both MvC3 and UMvC3. Akmua in MvC3 XF3 you can cancel from hurricane kick to Super and repeat. Zero was the best character in the game but the main issue with him was his health and you can only run him as point.
Doom/ammy shells are absurd as well. Honestly, UMvC3 has absurd shells. I used so many. Ammy/morrigan. Strange/Ammy. Most characters with doom or Dante.
@@Rhy2412TitanGamer For real though with Doom. Follow my lead... so good. I love how broken that game is lol. Firebrand/Skrull incoming, Hulk/Haggar, basically anything with DapVip's team lol (Dirt nap+Repulsor blast so OP). I genuinely love the hype UMvC3 generates.. such an enjoyable game to play and to watch lol Yipes commentary etc..
@@psicho9217 Totally agree lol. Love seeing the "5 golden letters" matches though too haha. XF3 Arthur is broken af lol EDIT: whoops, 6 instead of 5.. ugh, too drunk haha
The worst thing about X-Factor was that it could be used defensively in blockstun. Bringing your opponent down to their last character means you have to open them up somehow because them blocking means they can instantly turn any blocked attack unsafe and immediately touch of death your current point character.
@@misato4eva how? Sm4sh rage literally let some characters, mainly Lucario, kill in 1 interaction, sometimes 1 hit. Rage tipper f-smash single handedly let Marth win some match ups. Sm4sh rage was awful and was deservedly gutted in ultimate.
I know many people hate V-triggers in Street Fighter V but I've always really loved that mechanic. When your opponent activates it feels like you're entering the second phase of a boss fight and have to rethink your strategy. And if you're up against a bad player then you can figure out when they're about to use V-trigger and punish them or just use V-reversal so they waste it.
I totally agree with you! What I personally love about VT in SFV is that you have to think about how you manage your V-gauge. “Should I use it for my comeback mechanic? Or should I save it for my defensive options? (V-shift/V-reversal)” This is why I personally think that VT is one of the more interesting comeback mechanics because there’s at least more to think about when using your character’s V-gauge and how you want to play around your opponent’s V-gauge!
Agreed. I feel like people who complain about vtrigger are flowchart type players that feel like their agency gets disrupted by it. And even then just have two flowcharts xD
i think for the most part its not really that people hate the v triggers on its own, after all they are very fun to use, flashy and enable alot of unique mechanics and combos. i think the hate comes from sfv generally favoring agressive gameplay over defensive, no chip kills other than supers and most characters have no reliable ways to even apply a significant amount of chip dmg without putting themselves at huge risk. this results in these szenarios where lets say a dhalsim player dominates a game for 90% of the match slowly poking down his opponent, but than he has to take a huge risk to actually finish off his opponent, now his opponent reacts correctly to 1 teleport, and dhalsim loses 30-40% and is in the mix wich could lose him the game in an instant. now lets say this dhalsim fights some high dmg rushdown with an explosive v-trigger like Balrog vt1 or G vt1, and now dhalsim is more likely to lose 60+%, get cornercarried stunpressured and is in the mix of off 1 mistake, meaning even if he was working on a perfect until that moment, it was literally 1 mistake and he not only lost his advantage that he worked hard for, but actually has to guess now to stay alive. this feels really unfair all together, i think in sfv as it is any kind of comeback mechanic would get hate because it amplifies what feels unfair already
...and then dhalsim gets vtrigger or his reversal options. So both players get the same options. All this bitching is therefore pretty braindead. Git gud scrubs
Sonic The Fighters is actually a really good game , but catch up damage makes the game absolutely unplayable competitively even though the rest of the game is pretty solid...
I'm curious how Fatal Fury 2 would have ranked on here considering it started the Desperation Moves thing for KoF94. Also the MAX meter being full in KoF94 isn't really an SDM so much as it is just a damage boost from having a full bar. SDMs didn't show up until KoF96.
I was thinking about the same thing: Fatal Fury 2 and Fatal Fury Special. I played a lot of them back in the day. They basically had the same mechanic of infinite supers once the bar was flashing but at the same time they did not have the same mobility options as KoF 94. So I remember it being even harder to deal with some of the supers, like Joe's or Terry's.
Battle Arena Toshinden Remix's desperation moves were wild way back in the day. Duke's Coup de Grace was a OHKO from max health if you hit with the right positioning, and you do them whenever below ~25% health.
Yeah , I love it when you do these sorts of videos. Not necessarily a list, but just covering an interesting niche topic in fighting games, like how wild E.Honda or T.Hawk were. The "legendary match" videos were great, too.
I've gotten so used to seeing X Factor pop at all points of a match, for early ToD and lategame superrallies and everything in between that I've almost stopped seeing it as a comeback mechanic and just a general one-time "eff you buddeh!" button.
Imma be that guy, but rage in smash 4 was stupid. Having a high knock back moves were crazy, you can have Mario down throw, up air juggle, then reverse up b and dead. This made Lucario even scarier, and Bayo even stronger if she had rage.
It's so hilarious to me that such a miniscule life heal is considered broken in SF coming from BB, where you can find much more powerful healing mechanics.
I mean, it’s way less than sf3 elena’s healing which is about half health in sf3 (or about 1/3 for a short healing iirc) it’s just that sf3 elena needs to actually decide whether to use EX moves or healing
@@Pandaman64 I mean I get why that's the case (heals = more ultras = more heals) but then I look at Celica's full heal setups and I can't help to find it kinda funny how similar mechanics can have different effects on different metas.
I remember someone once said Smash isn't a fighting game because it doesn't have comeback mechanics. Firstly, that's untrue because Rage is a thing in the last two games-it was particularly stupid in Smash 4. Second, the comeback mechanic in Melee is your other stocks and getting good.
The absence or presence of comeback mechanics is just an attempt at balance. Stocks fit more into rounds but without resetting character position. The angel platform might count though even if it is only a few seconds.
Good ol' Vergil, staying true to his character by showing up in the revised version of a game and being completely busted in the process! A storm is approaching...
The thing is, I think Marvel 3 was so popular because of that x factor. Every match could potentially have a comeback from a comeback from a comeback. It made every fight unpredictable, and tense. From a spectator's point of view, it was very entertaining. And of course more people watching it made more people play it. Even now, I don't think there are any fighting game tournaments as hype to watch as Marvel 3 was. Does that make the game better for the players, though? Well, that's a different question...
So it’s a super, not a system mechanic, but Shadow Labrys’s Titanomachia in Persona basically means that if you can’t take her from >36% to 0 all at once, you’re automatically on the back foot no matter how well you were doing before she entered Awakening.
An honorable mention is Rage in Smash 4 (Wii U). For those of you who aren't intimately familiar with Smash, damage taken is equivalent to an increase in knockback when you get attacked (which affects combo routes) and your stock (basically a life) is lost when you get hit far enough off the screen by an attack. Characters are generally balanced around how efficiently they string combos at low damage percents and how easily they can hit you off the screen and kill you at high damage percents. What Rage did was it increased the knockback on ALL of your attacks, scaling on how much damage you have taken yourself. It was intended to make it easier to close out a stock at high damage percents, which it did, but it also turned TONS of low percent damage combos into guaranteed kill setups, which completely destroyed every aspect of the game's balance. Characters that were never intended to kill you easily at low damage percents were suddenly one shotting you with basic combos because you didn't kill them early enough. The competitive ruleset had the game set to two stocks, so losing even a single stock early to a bullshit Rage combo was absolutely devastating and incredibly frustrating.
Bit of an obscure title, but Evil Zone had manual charged super moves similar to KoF. The difference is that the bar you have to fill matches your remaining health. It's not as broken as infinite super attacks, but when you're at low health you can charge multiple bars in an instant.
Ultras were always lame. They handed your best super over to a separate gauge and made your 4 stock super suck. Completely backwards and you had to see those long animations constantly.
I remember one time my buddy was learning to play fighting games and getting good with SFIV Chun didn't get hit even once except two Geif ultras and lost and rage quit so bad. I thought it was hilarious.
Oh I have a GOOD one. [ One Piece Grand Battle Rush! ] In that game "ultras" escalated on your missing HP, meaning that hitting an "ultra" under ~25% did RIDICULOUS DAMAGE, I remember the thing pretty much OHKO (but my memory could fail here) To top that off ultras weren't hard to hit and depended on character. Arlong's specifically would just dive on the ground and resurface with a HOMING TELEPORT ATTACK AT ANY DISTANCE. I still have flashbacks.
If you’re looking for more comeback mechanics, I’ve got 3, all on Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. Lucario’s aura allows him to become stronger the more damage it takes. I also heard that the bigger Lucario’s disadvantage state is, the faster he can gain aura. Incineroar’s down B acts as both a counterattack and a buffing tool. Every time an opponent successfully hits Incineroar during the frames he’s performing down B, he becomes stronger. Rage Blaster is another “more damage taken = more damage dealt” scenario. However, I don’t think it cares as much about the disadvantage state as Lucario does. It’s just an item anyway.
I know purists or vets don't like rage in Tekken 7 but it was one of the main reasons I finally got into a fighting game. I honestly love it (except for the characters that have broken rage moves). It always felt like whenever I'd attempt to get into one I'd just get wrecked by some person who could spam certain moves and combos and I never even get a chance to find my bearings. That was something that used to turn me off from the genre as it seemed the main qualifier between you and someone else was more time and ability to memorize a sequence of buttons. But rage gave me as a newbie a way to create breathing room; either on landing or the threat of me using it. It's not an auto win as they're easily blockable (from most characters), only take out about a 3rd of health, and will create enough distance at the end to reset the momentum, but the threat of it kept me dangerous even when I was fresh. And now as a decent player it has expanded my moveset. I can work it into combos, faint it and do something else, or tease it out of other players and then punish. Or you do a rage drive instead. I do wish you can skip the cutscenes though, even my own, as it gets tedious but overall I like how it forces players to strategize and not just mash.
Having infinite Supers when your live bar was red comes in reality from Fatal Fury 2. SNK keept that mechanic in a lot of his games from that age (the Fatal Fury/Real Bout series, the KoF Orochi Saga and the '98 Slugfest, Kizuna Tag Battle...)
comeback mechanics shouldn't make the player even more valuable than they were at round start - they should be used to keep the winning player on their toes
In kof 94 there was a full life kill glitch with Heiden and Chin. If Chin jumped at you with heavy kick and you trade with him with the anti air cut you could win the match up immediately,both versus and against the CPU
I think Smash 4 rage deserves an honorable mention. Now at first you're probably reading this thinking "okay yeah sure it was a bit stupid of a mechanic, but it wasn't *that* strong right?" Well just in terms of intended mechanic functionality you'd be right, but then there's how rage affects multihit moves. The knockback on the early hits of the attack sometimes got scaled up so much that they didn't send into the finisher anymore, and just launched the opponent itself at absurdly early percents. It wouldn't be uncommon for attacks like ZSS, Peach, or Mario's Up Specials to kill at 0%.
So here's the thing about X-factor: it needs to account for the fact that you're not just trying to close a health gap, but also an *options* gap from having lost assist characters. That's why it's so obscenely powerful (allegedly). But moreover, it just looks kind of busted because it really goes stratospheric with characters designed to exploit it, such as Vergil or Jean. Someone like Arthur spamming projectiles fullscreen in XF3 might just go up against a flyer and run out of X factor time. In contrast, once Vergil pops XF3 and Devil Trigger, not only does he kill people (obviously, that's the point of XF3--a character dying is 33% health), but he kills *quickly*, thereby allowing more XF3 uptime relative to enemy characters' life, thus allowing XF3 Vergil to close out matches. And sure, we've all seen XF3 Jean or Vergil--but that's what makes Marvel so hype--the fact that it ain't over till it's over when an XF3 is involved.
I know you mentioned Tekken 7 rage being not crazy enough, but lets talk Smash 4 rage, where you can kill characters like bowser from the top of the screen with a character like, say, Pikachu, at FIFTY PERCENT
IF you thinking the mechanic KOF94 broken, then try KOF95. KOF 95 will add more damage for every unblocked hits, so some character can actually do a death combo during MAX mode. Once, when I use Benimaru, in MAX mode, I just press down + B B B, followed by his Iai Geri and then followed by his Andou Sandan Geri, my fresh opponent suffering 70% damage. If my Benimaru was in red flashing, those move will kill my opponent right away. Heck, even Omega Rugal can kill you with two hits only, by doing jump kick and followed by his Genocide Cutter during red flashing with MAX mode.
Mortal Kombat 11 fatal blows deserves a honorable mention especially because its so current. armored supers you get from simply losing at the game that break armor and do massive damage and huge push back.
@@WantSomeWhiskey818 I agree all of them look damn cool. They should have definitely went away on whiff and taken away some of the pushback and they would have been perfect.
KOF 94's Desperation Attacks actually came back for Capcom vs SNK 2 in the form of "S-Groove". It was a really cool throwback mechanic that havent been seen in years, but nowhere near broken
Now and forever my least favourite comeback mechanic will be P4AU’s awakening. It’s certainly not as strong as X-Factor, but it’s fascinatingly bad. For those who don’t know, once you reach 35% and aren’t in hitstun, you’ll get 50 meter, (one super) 50 more max meter, a massive defence buff, and new supers. For starters, the fact that supers are locked behind it means some characters, such as Adachi, don’t get vital tools for their gameplan unless they hit awakening. Secondly, since it only activates when you’re not in hitstun, this weakens zoning to an extremely unreasonable degree. It also means that, due to all the extra meter, you can likely force your opponent to skip awakening. It also makes health feel super inconsistent, and you’ll commonly see people whiffing DPs to hit awakening and “heal.” I’m sure there’s more reasons that I’m forgetting but awakening has become fascinating to me due to the symphony of bad ideas going on here.
The defense buff is honestly a bit weird, specifically if you take into account the fighting game made in the same Engine Blazblue. P4AU's damage output is pretty close to Blazblue's, but P4AU's average health is lower (Blazblue has 11500, P4AU has 9500). So the result is P4AU, you're supposed to die faster than in Blazblue since the two have similar damage outputs... except then Awakening health happens. If you calculate out the maximum possible awakening health for a character with average health your 9500 becomes... 11499.999... So the Awakening health is actually the missing health from Blazblue's numbers. It's odd.
This changed how people played P4U, and why characters that could setup strong oki situations/resets were so strong. You essentially reset your opponent with short loops til they were close to the awakening threshold, then blow everything at once to kill them before they could ever awaken.
I disagree that it's a bad mechanic, playing around awakening is one of the most fascinating aspects of the P4U meta. The obvious mind game revolving around awakening is the decision point for the attacker to try and reset the opponent before the awakening threshold to potentially sneak in extra damage. There's always the potential of bursting right as your health reaches awakening, burst baits that are basically game ending, or even simply calling the bluff on reset and punishing a greedy opponent. Whiffing FAs to get into awakening is its own mind game as well, since not every character can do so scott free but finding a clever opportunity to sneak it in shows ingenuity on the players' behalf. It's definitely a flawed system, with some normal type characters like Yukiko being practically non-viable since her awakening super is so crucial to her game plan and characters like Minazuki and Yu can more easiliy abuse FA to get into awakening than others, but I wouldn't call the awakening system bad because of a few bad apples.
UMvC3 was my debut in finally into fighting games, played some when I was kid but not really put much thought into it. Never really thought X-factor was that broken cause I never put too much time in other FG's
This video made me ask myself what would people consider a good comeback mechanic? Or is it the idea of a comeback mechanic in the fist place that its what people dislike
dnf duel awakening on striker, she literally TODs you off of a single punish because she gets 30% extra damage in awakening; also just being low in dnf grants you 200 meter so she can also spam special moves (which is not that special), its just the combination of the 30% with special move spam that makes her able to TOD you when she gets low!
This mechanic is for family games especially arcade racing games - the car behind can accelerate faster and has a higher total speed so they can catchup and keep in the game. Most people playing the arcade games as a family don't know how to play well or you may have older siblings that would always win. Thus these types of mechanics.
Battle Area Toshindan (most probably spelt incorrectly). The two bosses, pretty much had critical arcs that drained all your life. The main boss was Gaia, can remember the other boss’s name.
wasnt there also a hink with x factor that you could use it to cancel out of your own blockstun wich resulted in straight up punishing save moves on block? didnt really play umvc3, but thats what i heard
Toshinden battle arena also had the system of once you were in low enough health to use your super moves, you could spam them till you won. It wasn't a very good game, but this didn't help it's cause. Some characters like Duke could one shot people with their low health super. (if someone tried side step it and mistimed it, it would count as a backhit and one shot you.)
FighterZ Sparking. It's toned down X factor but nutty with the options is opens up in combos that and mixed with another comback feature, "limit break" (where you have only one character left) it can lead to easy touch of deaths
I hated the Ultras in SFIV, they made me so frustrated that I quit playing it. Especially when a lot of them could be input on the ground to wakeup with them.
you didn't even mention that you can activate x-factor IN BLOCKSTUN, so a lot of moves that are normally safe or part of a tight blockstring can be x-factored out of and punished, likely with a kill combo. the opponent can react and activate their own x-factor to save themselves though. also an option for magneto being chipped by arthur up there!
i remember thinking it was really funny they brought back early snk desperation moves when they put Terry in smash bros and it did end up being super good for him and made him a lot stronger than the street fighter guys in that game bc of it even in spite of fighting game characters feeling bad in neutral in smash bros
The thing about X-Factor is that the boosts vary by character and usually just made them better at what they were good at. Hulk got 0% speed boost even at Lv.3 and I'm pretty sure Strider's Lv.3 Damage boost was lower than most Lv.1 Damage boosts. As such, characters with more balanced boosts got way more out of XF, and guess who got a pretty even spread? Vergil.
In the original version of SF4 Gouken's backthrow did no damage and therefore had no scaling, and you could get his full animation ultra after it. Bottom line being he could throw you for 510 damage. They pretty quickly changed it so his backthrow did 1 grey damage, nerfing it from completely ridiculous to just 'really strong'.
"look at the damage on Blanka's ultra"
Hey it's not that bad, they were just paying tribute to CvS 2 Blanka
We don’t talk about that version of Blanka, Mix…you know better
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!
Sakura or bison was way more broken in that game
@@jivexturk3y can you explain why you think so cause I highly disagree
@@MrMixtape their A groove super does insane amounts of damage, even on block. We talking 70% here.
In the first Guilty Gear you get infinite access to Chaos Attacks (super attacks) when below 50% HP (as if there wasnt enough broken stuff there already).
That game is Insta Kill: The mind games Vs the ai continue
You could also infinitely keep attempting the instant kill(they killed that off in X as you lost your tension bar if you missed the attack)..
Cry.
D E S T R O Y E D
Guilty Gear is an AMAZING example cause as the bar gets lower you get more health lol
A pretty good honorable mention would be the Emotion Meter from Aquapazza. I have seen multiple clips of that game and people just dying off of one combo because the character was angry.
Aaaaaalrighty chat I ask you a simple question…
@@poblanopupp9966 LMAO yeah that's the first I had heard of the game and then I looked more about it after.
Sadly, aquaplazza is too niche. The poor game hasn't gotten a re-release, and with examu halting activities I doubt it ever will
Poverrrrrtyyyyy xD
E M O T I O N H I G H
Doesn’t X-Factor also remove chip damage as well? Like you can block entire supers and take no damage!
You can also make everything you do safe on block and alternatively everything your opponent does unsafe on block.
I'm a tekken player that's normal
Yes and it will fill red life on the character and if you have teammates them as well.
i like how strider in umvc3 w/ lv. 3 x-factor gets the lowest damage boost out of the entire cast but the highest speed bonus
man just becomes a speed demon menace outmaneuvering everything you throw out at him so easily
He thrusts faster now ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
And hulk is the opposite getting no speed boost but like the highest damage boost
@@striderzer0 Then who gets the highest regen boost?
@@MangaGamified the healing is technically at the same rate so I guess you could say phoenix cause she has the lowest so it will refill faster
Hearing people both talk about MvC3 being the best fighting game while also hearing the same people shit on comeback mechanics and how they ruin games is something that used to make me feel like an insane person and it was SUPER common.
Cause we hate dealing with lvl 3 Virgil, we wish he wasn't a thing LOL.
BUT, we have things we can do to prevent it from happening. As HORRID as Virgil is in lvl 3 X-factor we have the tools to stop him. Snapping him in he falls like a sack of potatoes and has little to no options and must deal with a incoming mixup. So even though its still an issue even the worst teams still have options to mitigate it.
@@SkyHighClaw hey man Virgil being busted is just them making sure he's lore accurate
@@joedatiushe’s also lore accurate because he’s broken on incoming😊
Because x factor is more of a win more mechanic to alot of players, I'll gladly pop it to take out their point character any day or to extend a combo so I can get a HKD and set up mix.
Really depends on your team. Importance of lv.3 Xfactor really depends how important your anchor is.
Like for a Zero May Cry team you killing a character to set up and coming mix is way more helpful than lv3 Virgil sitting on the bench just in case Zero dies.
But a Dark Phoenix team or a MoriDoom would want to hold onto their lv3 Xfactor even if it means they might have to give up on an opportunity to kill a character.
You can completely negate the chip damage from x factor level 3 Arthur when he does his projectile infinite by delaying your pushblocks to a certain rhythm
Does pushback cost a resource? Not too familiar with the game, but I know some games have it cost a resource.
@@LloydTheZephyrian in marvel? Hell no
@@LloydTheZephyrian no
@@sharodtg12 Thanks for the info! I didn't know until now.
One mess up tho.....
I remember, before they nerfed megazords, I could win somewhat regularly online in BFTG simply by waiting to the right time and activating. It lasts longer based on how many characters are dead, and when you are active the opponent could not activate theirs (this might have changed since then). So if you're on your last character, and they are also, and you activate first. . . Sayonara.
an intriguing FG but I'm just not too a fan of team/tag FG's only 1v1 characters
I was NOT expecting Sonic The Fighters to show up. Honestly, I think that game gets a bad rep. It's a really fun Virtua Fighter clone (made by some of the VF devs!) with a couple interesting mechanics (namely, how it handles blocking). It's a shame the Ketchup system is so busted cause if it weren't there I could see this having a niche scene.
Excuse me... Ketchup what now?
@@zeroderorero3948 It's talked about in the video. It's a comeback mechanic. People call it 'Ketchup' because your health bar changes colors from green, to yellow, to red.
@@WaddleDee105 ohhh ok, i thought it was something else, thanks for explaining
It's not a good game man. Even with our simplistic minds back then who didn't care about footsies, game mechanics, or complicated stuff in fighting games, it was still boring, and not fun to play.
@@txcforever Ok. Nice opinion.👍
Popping in to say One) Kinda surreal seing Sonic the Fighters in a JMCrofts video. Two) StF does have a fairly small competitive scene, believe it or not. Three) Ketchup can get really insane in some cases. Bark esspecially can just knock you down from full health to almost half with one strike when the life-gap gets big enough from my experience.
Yee
Sailor Moon S has the same desperation system as Kof94 with infinite supers at low health. all I know is Venus has a plus on block desperation that does a ton of chip damage and does like 50% if it hits you. so I think in some matchups if you get stuck in the corner when shes at low health she kinda just dunks on you and you die lol
It looks even sillier than that on paper.
Venus desp is 14f start up and then it has five different hitboxes that do about 10% of your life on chip, 50% if any one of them hits, and and 75% on counter hit. Dumb guard cancels on the fourth hitbox will have you take counter hit on the fifth and just die.
Thankfully this doesn’t happen all that often between it’s short range and Venus slow speed.
Justice in GG1
Not sure if this counts as a comeback mechanic but in One Punch Man: A Hero Noone Knows it's a 3v3 arena fighting game if you select Saitama you're effectively forced to fight with only 2 characters until the Saitama timer runs out and once it does you're treated to playing with Saitama who's invincible to all attacks and literally one shots everything.
That's pretty true to the show.
Wouldn't really count as a comeback mechanic because you have to be evasive to wait for the timer to run out, or do well in the fight with dodges, counters, and long combos to speed up the timer. If you're just getting your head kicked in, you'll never actually get Saitama to show up. It's more like a reward for doing well than pity for losing.
Yeah, also Saitama was an annoying mechanic because if you just run and play slippery the whole game you still get rewarded with a win
The only ranked fight I've ever done where I got saitama actually out, my opponent also did so. And won the regular saitama v saitama fight.
Best part is, this is optional.
Yes, even if you still want to play as Saitama. Dream Saitama is an option.
Interesting, I had assumed that those ultras in SF4 actually would scale back a bit to prevent that type of comeback, and give the fighter which had the upper hand for most of the match one last shot to win...if it was close enough.
I think SF4 has damage scaling depending on how much health you have left. Basically you lose less health when you have less health.
One thing to note is that what is being shown there are level 2 Ultras, when most of the time you'll only see level 1 Ultras. Damage in vanilla certainly was higher but the difference between a normal and max charge Ultra can be around 200 damage.
It wasn't really the ultras. It was just a few characters who had low scaling and really good ultras that they could combo into. It was a decided minority. SF4 over its entire lifespan had pretty lopsided matchups all over the roster.
@@Zetact_ What are you even talking about? There was no "level 1" nor "level 2" ultras. Why are you making stuff up?
If you lose half your health (or with white damage), you can use your ultra. The more health you lose, the more your ultra meter fills up, and the more damage it does.
@@f5673-t1h Exactly. A max revenge meter Ultra does a healthy bit more damage than the Ultras that you'd normally be seeing in a match.
Always click when i see your lists. They never fail to be interesting. Covering games from all eras and it seems no topic is too obscure or granular that you wont cover it. Always a treat.
The most cursed practitioner of X Factor is definitely Dark Phoenix. Her projectiles. Just everything. Once she transforms with x factor I just put the controller down. Lol
To be far, dark Phoenix without xfactor is already broke and it just adds to that. Vergil is top tier normally but becomes broken with xfactor
You brought up UMVC3's X factor but not Dark Phoenix. Level 3 X factor kept Dark Phoenix, a ridiculously strong character who had sharp health drain for a good reason, alive longer and buffed her further. If a player had Phoenix on their team, you knew they'd try to keep enough meter to unleash Dark Phoenix as an anchor and trigger X factor right then and there.
Xfactor lvl 2 have Phoenix bullshit stuff as well.
That’s less of a comeback as it is a win condition though. By that logic exodia is a comeback mechanic in yugioh.
I remember that at tournaments someone would run Wesker + Haggar + Phoenix and would always just clean house with Lvl 3 XF Dark Phoenix. When Wesker died, Haggar would usually die quickly after because of the Lariat assist spam, then they'd always have 5 bars for the DP super. Then they pop XF and just melt all the remaining opponents since the damage buff of DP + lvl 3 was so broken.
I'm surprised Smash 4 wasn't mentioned. Rage was introduced in this game, and made it to where the higher your percentage is, the more knockback you deal. It's broken in several ways.
1.) Some characters actually get worse with rage because the increased knockback makes their comboes harder or even impossible to do.
2.) Some characters, such as Mario, Peach or Samus could literally kill the opponent at 0% because rage affected multi-hit moves. Since the multi-hits usually have extremely high base knockback to ensure they connect into the finisher properly, doing a reverse up b could KO an opponent at 0%.
3.) Lucario already had a comeback mechanic of his own, which stacks on top of rage. If he's at around 100%, he can KO opponents below 40%.
4.) Heavies generally hit really hard, and rage only intensified this. DK could kill at around 50% with Cargo Up Throw to up air.
Ultimate fixed rage some by removing its ability to affect multi-hits and reducing its general power a bit. It still screws over characters who don't want the increased knockback on their main combo moves.
So?
@@DANCERcow It's a broken comeback mechanic.
Then again, another one was pulling out a pocket Cloud or Bayo.
@@LloydTheZephyrian stay mad? Lol
@@DANCERcow you give a lot to the convo ngl
This is a scrub quote
Yeah in Samsho 5 special there's a pretty significant comeback mechanic called State of Nothingness. With it you can slow down time for your opponent. Making everything they do extremely slow. Including their recovery after being hit. Allowing you to create custom combos for the duration. Which can easily lead to 90% damage. Some characters even have ways to combo into State of Nothingness.
However, it's balanced by two factors. One is that it requires you to sacrifice your Rage meter for the rest of that match and two, that it can only be done on the game winning round for your opponent.
As a person that played a lot of Marvel 3. Vergil still gives me PTSD, Everytime i heard "Now I'm Motivated" My Rectum would instinctively Clinch.
I NEED MORE POWER
I like these types of videos. Gives me insight into the "history" of fighting games I am not familiar with
great to see ya back making this kinda list content, love them so much and I get to learn something about old games I used to play
(had no idea that low health + full bar on KoF 94 was almost instant kill
On the topic of KoF 94, The Last Blade also does that. You have your regular Super but when you're health flashes red you get to do your super for free and you get access to your Super Duper.
Alpha 2 giving the round loser a nearly 10% damage buff is pretty broken, especially for characters with multihit specials and supers the damage difference becomes quickly apparent
GNT4 has an amazing come-back mechanic with teleports. You gain meter from dealing and taking damage, and whenever you are in a damaged state (even if you are thrown and flying mid-air) you can press a single button, teleport next to the opponent and hit them with a cross-up that sends the opponent back to neutral. You can do this at any point in the game, as long as you have half of your meter full. and remember, getting hit also fills your meter, and you get this whenever you are in any damaged state, even mid-combo.
It really forces your opponent to respect your meter and play fair or they might over-extend and get countered
I don't think that's entirely fair to call it a comeback mechanic, it's more an intrinsic mechanic along the lines of a traditional combo breaker, and yes I'm speaking as someone with probably more experience in the clash of Ninja series than anybody else in these comments (so far)
substitution is not really a comeback mechanic since it’s tied to meter
Also agreed that substitution/KnJ and teleports in Clash of Ninja or later Budokai games don't really count. For the former, that's 3/4 meters and some players use KnJ safe combos anyway.
Same goes for Burst though I guess some games reward it for getting hit mid-round as a bonus resource. Early BlazBlue only gave you another one if you lost one round, but you'd only get two in total.
As a pure UMvC3 player, definitely can attest that XF is crazy broken. Most characters have an infinite to varying degrees of difficulty (Iron man, Phoenix etc) and swag (Doom!), but I still wouldn't have it any other way.. Dark Vergil is dumb, hate watching DMC/Vergil anchor teams, the epitome is which is the Zero May Cry (Zero/Dante/Vergil) team.. always skip watching those matches... and MorriDoom shells... ugh...
Thanks for the video! Appreciate your content :)
Wolverine XF was broken in both MvC3 and UMvC3. Akmua in MvC3 XF3 you can cancel from hurricane kick to Super and repeat. Zero was the best character in the game but the main issue with him was his health and you can only run him as point.
X Factor may be broken but ive had so many hype comebacks... also gotten stomped on by it. Either way i love it still
Doom/ammy shells are absurd as well. Honestly, UMvC3 has absurd shells. I used so many. Ammy/morrigan. Strange/Ammy. Most characters with doom or Dante.
@@Rhy2412TitanGamer For real though with Doom. Follow my lead... so good. I love how broken that game is lol. Firebrand/Skrull incoming, Hulk/Haggar, basically anything with DapVip's team lol (Dirt nap+Repulsor blast so OP).
I genuinely love the hype UMvC3 generates.. such an enjoyable game to play and to watch lol Yipes commentary etc..
@@psicho9217 Totally agree lol. Love seeing the "5 golden letters" matches though too haha. XF3 Arthur is broken af lol
EDIT: whoops, 6 instead of 5.. ugh, too drunk haha
The worst thing about X-Factor was that it could be used defensively in blockstun. Bringing your opponent down to their last character means you have to open them up somehow because them blocking means they can instantly turn any blocked attack unsafe and immediately touch of death your current point character.
Honorable mention: Rage (and Lucario's aura) in Super Smash Bros.
Not broken though!
@@misato4eva how? Sm4sh rage literally let some characters, mainly Lucario, kill in 1 interaction, sometimes 1 hit. Rage tipper f-smash single handedly let Marth win some match ups. Sm4sh rage was awful and was deservedly gutted in ultimate.
Pity final smash is an actual come back mechanic. Rage is just a character mechanic
I know many people hate V-triggers in Street Fighter V but I've always really loved that mechanic. When your opponent activates it feels like you're entering the second phase of a boss fight and have to rethink your strategy. And if you're up against a bad player then you can figure out when they're about to use V-trigger and punish them or just use V-reversal so they waste it.
I totally agree with you! What I personally love about VT in SFV is that you have to think about how you manage your V-gauge. “Should I use it for my comeback mechanic? Or should I save it for my defensive options? (V-shift/V-reversal)”
This is why I personally think that VT is one of the more interesting comeback mechanics because there’s at least more to think about when using your character’s V-gauge and how you want to play around your opponent’s V-gauge!
Agreed. I feel like people who complain about vtrigger are flowchart type players that feel like their agency gets disrupted by it. And even then just have two flowcharts xD
i think for the most part its not really that people hate the v triggers on its own, after all they are very fun to use, flashy and enable alot of unique mechanics and combos. i think the hate comes from sfv generally favoring agressive gameplay over defensive, no chip kills other than supers and most characters have no reliable ways to even apply a significant amount of chip dmg without putting themselves at huge risk. this results in these szenarios where lets say a dhalsim player dominates a game for 90% of the match slowly poking down his opponent, but than he has to take a huge risk to actually finish off his opponent, now his opponent reacts correctly to 1 teleport, and dhalsim loses 30-40% and is in the mix wich could lose him the game in an instant. now lets say this dhalsim fights some high dmg rushdown with an explosive v-trigger like Balrog vt1 or G vt1, and now dhalsim is more likely to lose 60+%, get cornercarried stunpressured and is in the mix of off 1 mistake, meaning even if he was working on a perfect until that moment, it was literally 1 mistake and he not only lost his advantage that he worked hard for, but actually has to guess now to stay alive. this feels really unfair all together, i think in sfv as it is any kind of comeback mechanic would get hate because it amplifies what feels unfair already
...and then dhalsim gets vtrigger or his reversal options. So both players get the same options. All this bitching is therefore pretty braindead. Git gud scrubs
@@f.ganzeru2563 that's fair i get what you mean.
Sonic The Fighters is actually a really good game , but catch up damage makes the game absolutely unplayable competitively even though the rest of the game is pretty solid...
I'm curious how Fatal Fury 2 would have ranked on here considering it started the Desperation Moves thing for KoF94. Also the MAX meter being full in KoF94 isn't really an SDM so much as it is just a damage boost from having a full bar. SDMs didn't show up until KoF96.
I was thinking about the same thing: Fatal Fury 2 and Fatal Fury Special. I played a lot of them back in the day. They basically had the same mechanic of infinite supers once the bar was flashing but at the same time they did not have the same mobility options as KoF 94. So I remember it being even harder to deal with some of the supers, like Joe's or Terry's.
The first hit of the ultra I was like "it's not that bad" and then BOOM 70% health gone
Battle Arena Toshinden Remix's desperation moves were wild way back in the day. Duke's Coup de Grace was a OHKO from max health if you hit with the right positioning, and you do them whenever below ~25% health.
great video, i find the more obscure games mentioned and portrayed very intriguing and enjoy these list videos.
lovely work.
Yeah , I love it when you do these sorts of videos. Not necessarily a list, but just covering an interesting niche topic in fighting games, like how wild E.Honda or T.Hawk were.
The "legendary match" videos were great, too.
I've gotten so used to seeing X Factor pop at all points of a match, for early ToD and lategame superrallies and everything in between that I've almost stopped seeing it as a comeback mechanic and just a general one-time "eff you buddeh!" button.
Imma be that guy, but rage in smash 4 was stupid. Having a high knock back moves were crazy, you can have Mario down throw, up air juggle, then reverse up b and dead. This made Lucario even scarier, and Bayo even stronger if she had rage.
Lucario wasn’t that good in smash 4 but yes
Elena’s Ultra 2( the Heal ultra) is still really busted in usf4
It's so hilarious to me that such a miniscule life heal is considered broken in SF coming from BB, where you can find much more powerful healing mechanics.
I mean, it’s way less than sf3 elena’s healing which is about half health in sf3 (or about 1/3 for a short healing iirc) it’s just that sf3 elena needs to actually decide whether to use EX moves or healing
@@Skallva the issue is that healing is her ultra. She gets access to a healing move by getting damage.
It's dumb lol
@@Pandaman64
I mean I get why that's the case (heals = more ultras = more heals) but then I look at Celica's full heal setups and I can't help to find it kinda funny how similar mechanics can have different effects on different metas.
I remember someone once said Smash isn't a fighting game because it doesn't have comeback mechanics. Firstly, that's untrue because Rage is a thing in the last two games-it was particularly stupid in Smash 4. Second, the comeback mechanic in Melee is your other stocks and getting good.
don't listen to them, y'all have a fighting game
The absence or presence of comeback mechanics is just an attempt at balance.
Stocks fit more into rounds but without resetting character position. The angel platform might count though even if it is only a few seconds.
The Super Desperation attack was not in KOF 94. That was introduced in KOF 96. The desperation attack in KOF94 and 95 was powerful enough in itself.
Good ol' Vergil, staying true to his character by showing up in the revised version of a game and being completely busted in the process!
A storm is approaching...
He’s still only 5th
The thing is, I think Marvel 3 was so popular because of that x factor. Every match could potentially have a comeback from a comeback from a comeback. It made every fight unpredictable, and tense. From a spectator's point of view, it was very entertaining. And of course more people watching it made more people play it. Even now, I don't think there are any fighting game tournaments as hype to watch as Marvel 3 was.
Does that make the game better for the players, though? Well, that's a different question...
So it’s a super, not a system mechanic, but Shadow Labrys’s Titanomachia in Persona basically means that if you can’t take her from >36% to 0 all at once, you’re automatically on the back foot no matter how well you were doing before she entered Awakening.
The most OP comeback is splashing your opponents beer in their eyes at the cab
An honorable mention is Rage in Smash 4 (Wii U). For those of you who aren't intimately familiar with Smash, damage taken is equivalent to an increase in knockback when you get attacked (which affects combo routes) and your stock (basically a life) is lost when you get hit far enough off the screen by an attack. Characters are generally balanced around how efficiently they string combos at low damage percents and how easily they can hit you off the screen and kill you at high damage percents.
What Rage did was it increased the knockback on ALL of your attacks, scaling on how much damage you have taken yourself. It was intended to make it easier to close out a stock at high damage percents, which it did, but it also turned TONS of low percent damage combos into guaranteed kill setups, which completely destroyed every aspect of the game's balance. Characters that were never intended to kill you easily at low damage percents were suddenly one shotting you with basic combos because you didn't kill them early enough. The competitive ruleset had the game set to two stocks, so losing even a single stock early to a bullshit Rage combo was absolutely devastating and incredibly frustrating.
That look on 3:09 was god like. 😂
Bit of an obscure title, but Evil Zone had manual charged super moves similar to KoF. The difference is that the bar you have to fill matches your remaining health. It's not as broken as infinite super attacks, but when you're at low health you can charge multiple bars in an instant.
Paul’s Phoenix smashers been a comeback mechanic since Tekken 1
Ultras were always lame. They handed your best super over to a separate gauge and made your 4 stock super suck. Completely backwards and you had to see those long animations constantly.
K-Groove. Up to 3 lvl 3 supers in one round, 12.5 percent defense buff, 35 percent damage buff, destroys guard meter.
Oh and most damaging lvl 3s in the game. Every groove has different damage supers
Super fun list! Am a super casual fighting game fan, so this definitely helps me understand and appreciate fighting game history that much more.
I remember one time my buddy was learning to play fighting games and getting good with SFIV Chun didn't get hit even once except two Geif ultras and lost and rage quit so bad. I thought it was hilarious.
Oh I have a GOOD one. [ One Piece Grand Battle Rush! ]
In that game "ultras" escalated on your missing HP, meaning that hitting an "ultra" under ~25% did RIDICULOUS DAMAGE, I remember the thing pretty much OHKO (but my memory could fail here)
To top that off ultras weren't hard to hit and depended on character. Arlong's specifically would just dive on the ground and resurface with a HOMING TELEPORT ATTACK AT ANY DISTANCE.
I still have flashbacks.
5:01 I mean, Cammy's face tells you everything you need to know about Ultras
If you’re looking for more comeback mechanics, I’ve got 3, all on Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.
Lucario’s aura allows him to become stronger the more damage it takes. I also heard that the bigger Lucario’s disadvantage state is, the faster he can gain aura.
Incineroar’s down B acts as both a counterattack and a buffing tool. Every time an opponent successfully hits Incineroar during the frames he’s performing down B, he becomes stronger.
Rage Blaster is another “more damage taken = more damage dealt” scenario. However, I don’t think it cares as much about the disadvantage state as Lucario does. It’s just an item anyway.
I know purists or vets don't like rage in Tekken 7 but it was one of the main reasons I finally got into a fighting game. I honestly love it (except for the characters that have broken rage moves).
It always felt like whenever I'd attempt to get into one I'd just get wrecked by some person who could spam certain moves and combos and I never even get a chance to find my bearings.
That was something that used to turn me off from the genre as it seemed the main qualifier between you and someone else was more time and ability to memorize a sequence of buttons.
But rage gave me as a newbie a way to create breathing room; either on landing or the threat of me using it.
It's not an auto win as they're easily blockable (from most characters), only take out about a 3rd of health, and will create enough distance at the end to reset the momentum, but the threat of it kept me dangerous even when I was fresh.
And now as a decent player it has expanded my moveset. I can work it into combos, faint it and do something else, or tease it out of other players and then punish.
Or you do a rage drive instead. I do wish you can skip the cutscenes though, even my own, as it gets tedious but overall I like how it forces players to strategize and not just mash.
As someone from the sonic the fighters discord, i can say that the catchup mechanic is busted but this has seen at least seen some tournament play
3:48 how funny is it that Zangief’s critical art does more than half your HP now. History repeats itself
Decapitation in Time Killers has to be the ultimate comeback, no matter how far behind you can instant win.
Top 5 Worst comeback mechanics:1-5
Pandora in SFXT
That’s a KAMIKAZE mechanic
XD
Having infinite Supers when your live bar was red comes in reality from Fatal Fury 2. SNK keept that mechanic in a lot of his games from that age (the Fatal Fury/Real Bout series, the KoF Orochi Saga and the '98 Slugfest, Kizuna Tag Battle...)
comeback mechanics shouldn't make the player even more valuable than they were at round start - they should be used to keep the winning player on their toes
4:19 "And look at the damage, LOOK AT THE DAMAGE!"
In kof 94 there was a full life kill glitch with Heiden and Chin. If Chin jumped at you with heavy kick and you trade with him with the anti air cut you could win the match up immediately,both versus and against the CPU
Tekken rage and X Factor marvel are hilarious. I have seen so many comebacks from these two games.
I think Smash 4 rage deserves an honorable mention. Now at first you're probably reading this thinking "okay yeah sure it was a bit stupid of a mechanic, but it wasn't *that* strong right?" Well just in terms of intended mechanic functionality you'd be right, but then there's how rage affects multihit moves. The knockback on the early hits of the attack sometimes got scaled up so much that they didn't send into the finisher anymore, and just launched the opponent itself at absurdly early percents. It wouldn't be uncommon for attacks like ZSS, Peach, or Mario's Up Specials to kill at 0%.
So here's the thing about X-factor: it needs to account for the fact that you're not just trying to close a health gap, but also an *options* gap from having lost assist characters. That's why it's so obscenely powerful (allegedly). But moreover, it just looks kind of busted because it really goes stratospheric with characters designed to exploit it, such as Vergil or Jean. Someone like Arthur spamming projectiles fullscreen in XF3 might just go up against a flyer and run out of X factor time. In contrast, once Vergil pops XF3 and Devil Trigger, not only does he kill people (obviously, that's the point of XF3--a character dying is 33% health), but he kills *quickly*, thereby allowing more XF3 uptime relative to enemy characters' life, thus allowing XF3 Vergil to close out matches.
And sure, we've all seen XF3 Jean or Vergil--but that's what makes Marvel so hype--the fact that it ain't over till it's over when an XF3 is involved.
Whoa I did not remember Ultras being that powerful in vanilla SF4. That is insane.
My eyes bugged out of my head at that Blanka Ultra. I had no idea vanilla was so busted.
I know you mentioned Tekken 7 rage being not crazy enough, but lets talk Smash 4 rage, where you can kill characters like bowser from the top of the screen with a character like, say, Pikachu, at FIFTY PERCENT
In the old days the biggest comeback was getting punched in the face IRL when a 12 yr old CC's you to death in Alpha 2. Shoutouts to Wunderland in SD.
IF you thinking the mechanic KOF94 broken, then try KOF95.
KOF 95 will add more damage for every unblocked hits, so some character can actually do a death combo during MAX mode.
Once, when I use Benimaru, in MAX mode, I just press down + B B B, followed by his Iai Geri and then followed by his Andou Sandan Geri, my fresh opponent suffering 70% damage.
If my Benimaru was in red flashing, those move will kill my opponent right away.
Heck, even Omega Rugal can kill you with two hits only, by doing jump kick and followed by his Genocide Cutter during red flashing with MAX mode.
Dude I'm loving your videos, its really reigniting my love for fighting games
Mortal Kombat 11 fatal blows deserves a honorable mention especially because its so current. armored supers you get from simply losing at the game that break armor and do massive damage and huge push back.
Fatal Blows would've been fixed if you could only use it once per round. Having a cooldown on it is crazy imo. At least Krushing Blows are rad.
@@WantSomeWhiskey818 I agree all of them look damn cool. They should have definitely went away on whiff and taken away some of the pushback and they would have been perfect.
Can’t think of anything crazier but I loved this video :)
KOF 94's Desperation Attacks actually came back for Capcom vs SNK 2 in the form of "S-Groove". It was a really cool throwback mechanic that havent been seen in years, but nowhere near broken
Now and forever my least favourite comeback mechanic will be P4AU’s awakening. It’s certainly not as strong as X-Factor, but it’s fascinatingly bad. For those who don’t know, once you reach 35% and aren’t in hitstun, you’ll get 50 meter, (one super) 50 more max meter, a massive defence buff, and new supers.
For starters, the fact that supers are locked behind it means some characters, such as Adachi, don’t get vital tools for their gameplan unless they hit awakening. Secondly, since it only activates when you’re not in hitstun, this weakens zoning to an extremely unreasonable degree. It also means that, due to all the extra meter, you can likely force your opponent to skip awakening. It also makes health feel super inconsistent, and you’ll commonly see people whiffing DPs to hit awakening and “heal.” I’m sure there’s more reasons that I’m forgetting but awakening has become fascinating to me due to the symphony of bad ideas going on here.
The defense buff is honestly a bit weird, specifically if you take into account the fighting game made in the same Engine Blazblue.
P4AU's damage output is pretty close to Blazblue's, but P4AU's average health is lower (Blazblue has 11500, P4AU has 9500).
So the result is P4AU, you're supposed to die faster than in Blazblue since the two have similar damage outputs... except then Awakening health happens.
If you calculate out the maximum possible awakening health for a character with average health your 9500 becomes... 11499.999...
So the Awakening health is actually the missing health from Blazblue's numbers. It's odd.
This changed how people played P4U, and why characters that could setup strong oki situations/resets were so strong.
You essentially reset your opponent with short loops til they were close to the awakening threshold, then blow everything at once to kill them before they could ever awaken.
I disagree that it's a bad mechanic, playing around awakening is one of the most fascinating aspects of the P4U meta. The obvious mind game revolving around awakening is the decision point for the attacker to try and reset the opponent before the awakening threshold to potentially sneak in extra damage. There's always the potential of bursting right as your health reaches awakening, burst baits that are basically game ending, or even simply calling the bluff on reset and punishing a greedy opponent. Whiffing FAs to get into awakening is its own mind game as well, since not every character can do so scott free but finding a clever opportunity to sneak it in shows ingenuity on the players' behalf. It's definitely a flawed system, with some normal type characters like Yukiko being practically non-viable since her awakening super is so crucial to her game plan and characters like Minazuki and Yu can more easiliy abuse FA to get into awakening than others, but I wouldn't call the awakening system bad because of a few bad apples.
UMvC3 was my debut in finally into fighting games, played some when I was kid but not really put much thought into it. Never really thought X-factor was that broken cause I never put too much time in other FG's
you know how he holds back when he uses Vergil, turns on X-Factor, AND HE DOESN'T EVEN USE DEVIL TRIGGER!
mother of god!
This video made me ask myself what would people consider a good comeback mechanic? Or is it the idea of a comeback mechanic in the fist place that its what people dislike
dnf duel awakening on striker, she literally TODs you off of a single punish because she gets 30% extra damage in awakening; also just being low in dnf grants you 200 meter so she can also spam special moves (which is not that special), its just the combination of the 30% with special move spam that makes her able to TOD you when she gets low!
This mechanic is for family games especially arcade racing games - the car behind can accelerate faster and has a higher total speed so they can catchup and keep in the game. Most people playing the arcade games as a family don't know how to play well or you may have older siblings that would always win. Thus these types of mechanics.
Sf4 ultra gets stronger as the Bar fills. If you do the blanka ultra with half bar, is Around 35%
KOF 94/95 were well-balanced that way. I'm sure you've not seen how powerful Rugal's max-gauged guard-cancel Genocide Cutter is.
Battle Area Toshindan (most probably spelt incorrectly). The two bosses, pretty much had critical arcs that drained all your life. The main boss was Gaia, can remember the other boss’s name.
Forgot to mention vergils devil trigger x factor lvl 3 special spam. Kills the whole team every. Single. Time.
As a Grid player, Zord also gives you true incoming unblockables you cannot do anything about >:)
wasnt there also a hink with x factor that you could use it to cancel out of your own blockstun wich resulted in straight up punishing save moves on block?
didnt really play umvc3, but thats what i heard
Toshinden battle arena also had the system of once you were in low enough health to use your super moves, you could spam them till you won. It wasn't a very good game, but this didn't help it's cause. Some characters like Duke could one shot people with their low health super. (if someone tried side step it and mistimed it, it would count as a backhit and one shot you.)
Immediately knew it would be X-Factor. I hated this mechanic so much.
FighterZ Sparking. It's toned down X factor but nutty with the options is opens up in combos that and mixed with another comback feature, "limit break" (where you have only one character left) it can lead to easy touch of deaths
Critical finish from SC4 was ridiculous. An instant kill on your opponent if they're good at blocking is absurd.
I hated the Ultras in SFIV, they made me so frustrated that I quit playing it. Especially when a lot of them could be input on the ground to wakeup with them.
you didn't even mention that you can activate x-factor IN BLOCKSTUN, so a lot of moves that are normally safe or part of a tight blockstring can be x-factored out of and punished, likely with a kill combo. the opponent can react and activate their own x-factor to save themselves though. also an option for magneto being chipped by arthur up there!
I really expected you to show a happy birthday or even a merry christmas with level 3 x-factor decimating an entire 3 character team in one combo...
On Turnabout Mode, Phoenix Wright's lvl3 super hits full screen and deals enough damage to kill almost anyone. On X factor, it's a guaranteed win.
I'm glad they replaced ultra combo with vtrigger. As for tekken 7 I was not a fan of rage art.
MvC3 is still the most hype game to watch. I try to tune into Havengers and TampaNeverSleeps weekly tourneys when I get the chance!
i remember thinking it was really funny they brought back early snk desperation moves when they put Terry in smash bros and it did end up being super good for him and made him a lot stronger than the street fighter guys in that game bc of it even in spite of fighting game characters feeling bad in neutral in smash bros
The thing about X-Factor is that the boosts vary by character and usually just made them better at what they were good at. Hulk got 0% speed boost even at Lv.3 and I'm pretty sure Strider's Lv.3 Damage boost was lower than most Lv.1 Damage boosts. As such, characters with more balanced boosts got way more out of XF, and guess who got a pretty even spread? Vergil.
In the original version of SF4 Gouken's backthrow did no damage and therefore had no scaling, and you could get his full animation ultra after it. Bottom line being he could throw you for 510 damage. They pretty quickly changed it so his backthrow did 1 grey damage, nerfing it from completely ridiculous to just 'really strong'.