Something that'll just be useless after sometime and after services gets cut you can never access it ever again cause they'll take the game down and eradicate it from the face of the earth, Fun right???
It depends, if you grind several hours, of course you will hate it, if you just do it some minutes a day or when you really feel good, no problem, if the person is an addict is a whole different problem, you have no reason to login all days, you don't lose anything or pay for playing, you can keep playing with the same characters and enjoy the experience or just put some money to get the character you want, that's it xD. TLDR: Don't grind, play when you like, you lose nothing for not playing all days, want a character? swipe or do events, easy.
@@kaszup7955 What I mean about pay to play is you have to pay every month just like in the early 2000's when online gaming is starting out. Not the ones you have to pay one time.
Pay to progress is pay to win. Progress is winning, you stupid. There are pay to win and pay to lose only if the game allows in-game purchases. And pay to lose being especifically a pay to win when is worse to the player than not paying at all.
@Krysnha dark souls was a correction of gaming. At the time games were trending easier and more hand holdy. That's why it's iconic and memorable on top of it's execution and setting
@@Aeternum_Zephyria no you can't, unless you give it so much time. And forgive me if I sound rude but, some of us just don't have the time to waste on a game like you. I'm down to play the game after they just finish the story. That way Ik who to pull and what to do so I can pull them.
...but my point still stands. You can play the game just fine WITHOUT the gacha (even with minimum time investment). the optimal damage is really only for consistently* clearing 9* on floor 12 of the abyss (which is PURELY optional). And since the game focuses more on the open-world aspect, there's really no need for meta characters to pull for.
@alphamonder Yeah but assuming that the gacha system does get removed, what kind of system would you put in to replace it? Also the gacha is why the game is being funded for development to keep the game free to play and their other games too, and as seen in their profits it works whether you like it or not. At least it's not like those games that ask you to pay for the game upfront THEN ask you to buy lootboxes. That's something else. Oh- and one more thing. If you really don't support these kinds of systems, just don't play the game/pay for the services. (in case you don't know that yet)
@@juakored In a way, that's true. I used to play Genshin and once I got Ayaka (favorite character in terms of design and personality), I stopped playing a few months later.
i still remember how hype i am when genshin release, grind everyday and got a character that I don't like, keep grinding and can't beat the odds, even grinding artefacts getting rough. And i gave up. Until one day i decided to buy account that has the character that I wanted, play it for good 8 hours, and never touch the game ever again. I'm just done. In the end, i don't feel the same feeling like in my first day playing the game after buying an account.
For me i play videogames all mi life, mi problem with many gatcha games, is they become boring at the end, and many games iw atned wont come to mi zone, so at the end, gatcha i have king of figthers, because at least it has nice gameplay, i play arknigths and at te end of the day was bored, azur lane, in the last worlds become so hard i was grinding more than anything, and wich character make mi pepe goes hard, barely have any fanservice outside the asian server, so if you dont know how to speack japanese, no thanks
I'd argue they're not pay2lose but play2lose. As soon as you play you're going to be subjected to a bunch of psychological tricks to try and get you to spend money. You are playing to be manipulated, and sooner or later when your situation allows for it, and it doesn't seem like a big deal.. ah.. 10 bucks isn't that much is it..? They always get you in the end.
@@simonshura9144 the €10 is the cheap deal they get you to fill your credit card info in with. After that the barrier to purchasing is lower and the bigger transactions start.
BRO as another gacha gamer who's been in the f2p/dolphin life for years this video is so true. All the "good" ones are rarely p2w, which are often the most popular ones.
There are some gacha game out there that are P2W but from your thumbnail I can confirmed that AK is P2L because higher rarity character has the same stat scaling while their stat are better their raise cost are fking way higher and farming stages reward you with low resources so it took longer to raise 6star or 5star than 3,4star Pretty much you can clear the campaign, events and other content with low rarity because the game is intended to play that way 5,6 star are mostly relevant in later stages or for you to just collect them as waifu or husbando Want to beat AK fast? Go watch walk through. But if you want to beat it with your 5,6star waifu or want to has some creativity you just need to raise them to a high enough level which going to take times(it may or may not workout). Good luck
Everything you said is just pointless. Higher-rarity characters actually have the same stats (almost) as low-rarity operators, but that's what makes the game good. You can beat the game (if you have enough intellect to deploy operators properly) even with 3 and 4-star operators. One chinese guy even has speedran the game using only the low-rarity operators, which has spent 24-hours to do. I am, personally, never watched AK walkthroughs, if i failed to clear a stage, i took my time, think about the enemies and the operators that i have, and eventually i was able to clear a stage. That game also isn't about the waifus (because only few of them only want you, and even less of them want you in a romantic way) or pay to win/pay to lose, because you get premium currency for just clearing the level with 3 stars, and grinding is simplified with auto-deploy function.
@@PetyaKokHmm i thought beating the game with 3 and 4*s is common route for most of players? While 5 and 6*s are mostly "fun fact" type of characters just to toy around different strategies.
@@tangomilano4503 Can't say this for arknights. Game guarantees you one six-star anyway, and they're relatively easy to get with 2% rate on banners. 5-stars are much easier to get with 8% rate on banners. So for arknights, more common route is the use of 4-5* with one or two 6*, that are like carrying you.
It reminds me a situation I when I was playing a game with my niece. She was angry she cannot beat me so she kept asking me to let her win. I didn't let her win for a while, then I told her I will let her win. She felt accomplished. I told her to play again and I let her win again. And again. And again. After few games she didn't want to play anymore because she was bored. She didn't realize why, but victory doesn't feel the same if you know it was not earned.
@@animememer4931 Your gonna sit there and pretend the game isn’t marketed at horny men trying to get different pngs of their favourite anime girls and that most players play the game with 2 characters
I spent some money for Taoqi and ChangLi, I don't feel bad since was money that I got from my job bonus, I have my characters and I'm saving for another one using the pass and some events (Im talking about WuWa) And I'm glad I did it, I wont have to grind as hard, I can play less time and fell more fun cuz I have a goal and the character I want, I play 30 minutes or a few hours on weekends, I also do other stuff but yeah, depends of your way of being and selfcontrol
As a Arknights player I havent pay to win to get the characters i wanted so badly I have to grind for many days or months You have to be patient for the new Ops or rerun Now i have to wait for W rerun YOSTAR PLEASE RERUN W
As the Doktuh from Arknights, I used my brain, not my money to play the game. Well, if you schedule right time to play every day, you saved your time for something important in your life and progress the game.
I'm in a love hate relationship with gacha games. Love the resource management and RNG aspects but I hate all the limitations and punishment for not playing daily. I remember playing Genshin on release with a friend and we were trying to compete to see who could reach AR 40 first. He pulled 2 Keqing's and a Venti while I was chillin with a Qiqi and eventually my Jean. It wasn't until 6 months after us not playing anymore where he mentioned that he spent like $700 on the game. It felt weird because up until that point he just acted like he was lucky, smart and really good at the game which is why he was progressing so much faster than me but it just turned out he was spending money to buy Resin. Even though there was no PvP it felt like we were competing. All of that to say, I don't agree that PvP is the defining factor for a game to be considered pay to win as it disregards how we socially interact with games. We create competition in single player games ourselves. There's world firsts, speed running, leaderboards and even friend to friend challenges where people regularly compare themselves to each other. Paying to be at the top of those leaderboards destroys competition. You can make a paid and nonpaid category but it's really hard to verify if somebodies spent money or just got really lucky. There's also a social aspect. When we achieve something, we share it. When we fail something repeatedly, we share it. We reinforce bad habits by upvoting the "I spent $50,000 on this game" videos and posts leading to people thinking it's fine and makes more people want to do that so they too can get recognition. If you truly see the game as "Pay to Lose" what's your reasoning people spending money on C6 characters? If you solely come at the P2W argument from a "is there a PvP mode" you miss so much of what "winning" even is.
Arknights made a good job making the game f2 friendly, since as he said you can beat every story stage with units that are basically free and able to get without a single in-game currency lost, and when the stage needs dps you can basically go to support, grab a meta unit that is easily avaliable cuz its meta and it will basically do the dps you want and you will win, for example getting goldenglow (does the right dps) to borrow your caster (that doesnt do the right dps) and its done if your strat is good enough.
As a slightly veteran player who is now waiting for avalon le fae, the only thing i would say to future gacha gamers is "that's hell you're walking into"
Many gacha games nowadays have pvp. Those that don't have leaderboards comparing players to each other. Players who pay for stronger characters and equipment have an advantage over other players who haven't spent as much or not at all. Often resulting in them beating them or getting higher scores than them despite being less skilled at the game. This is the definition of p2w. And the whales are very much enjoying stomping the f2p masses.
The definition of pay to win does not exclude pve. This pve argument has been debunked so many times. Also, you can compete with others in pve and even singleplayer through records like speedrunning. Some games even have a high score in single player. Pve is not exlusive to singleplayer. This video got a lot of things wrong. Gotcha games still suck and will always suck.
@@Gigakoopz the only game I could think of having lootboxes is a good thing is the multiplayer for ME3 (Mass Effect 3) because in that game u could unlock every character, weapon, and boost for free in the loot boxes because u get credits from playing the game so u have an option to buy the loot boxes or play more and the harder content in that game reward u more credits. BTW this is a PVE gamemode and the loot boxes have a higher tier that cost more credits. But this is essentially giving free players an artificial grind so yeah this is still pay to win
Just gonna throw it out there : Honkai impact 3rd has you only fighting NPC enemies, but has you competing for actual in game currency rewards with other players. Its a great game for its single player, but a whale who knows how to read the in game tutorials will still outperform you and be rewarded much more for it.
this mentality of "p2w is ok since its PvE" is on par with "using guides in SPGs is ok" -new gen of "gamers" back then we didnt have PvP. it used to be... x: i beat this game y: yeaaaaaaaaaa but u used a guide tho soooooOooooooOoooOOOOOOO000000000ooooõooooO... ...nah you wouldnt get it if you dont put much thinking(ik thought itw but this is easier 4 them 2 understand) on to it you used a "map"(cheat) for the "maze"(game). you wouldnt have been able to finish it(stuck on that 1 puzzle/"skill(mechanical) check/boss/odin forbid a common-spawn enemy). theres no "technicality" to it think about it for once. you used a guide to beat a puzzle that the rest of players didnt == you paid for items, gear, upgrades(incl. getting there faster literally( *time is money/power* ) & by "levelling-wise"), characters to beat a challenge(ie a battle/encounter ie PvE) that other players didnt they would then argue "bUt BuT y0u CaN jUsT Gr!Nd tO eVeNtUaLlY WiN" thats the fcking point. you(who paid) didnt waste time "training"(grinding) by paying while we had to repeat that sht x times to clear a "challenge". in this context/premise, not grinding is the winning part. "oh you havent beaten The Ancient Grand Zombie Godlike Dragon V2.1.1 Arcane Element Poison Remix Anniversary Limited Edition yet? cuz ur only lvl 70??? not yet max enhanced, quad socketted, awakened flip flop wala wala beng beng? u r not that stronk. ur a *loser* lol" -sips his p2w cucktail "iTs NoT p2W cUz YoU d0nT W!N(like in an spg)" like fucking duhhhh. its a live service game, dumbass. if it were to end would you be happy of your purchase(paying)? what do you expect? you buy The Uber Sword Of r3TaRdeDne$$ & expect the game to shutdown you dont even get to swing The Uber Sword Of R~(game over -> credits roll -> "high score to the dumbass who spent $1000") ill be accused of "gatekeeping" tho an old new buzzwrd getting some traction these days lowl
I agree with your point, like 3 of these games are not P2W, but I think it's subconsciously controlling people's time and mind,I mean if you can completely separate gacha game and your life,then it's totally fine to play gacha game, but the problem is most of kids ,they couldn't focus on learning new stuff or think about their future because their mind is full of gacha games,not only they would be like that, many adults would feel in this way and don't want to think of their future, it's not about that you just need to spend a little time on it , it's about how it would affect your mind or even your life in a long term.
In fact, the rule to say wheter a gacha game is good is how much as p2l the game is. If you are not incentivized to spend by how the elements in the game arrange themselves, instead disincentivized by making difficult and not worth it compared to the f2p alternative then you know is not predatory. A gacha game is good if you gain more by not spending and that means you are only receiving financial problems when you do. Stop best buys, stop starter packs, stop battle passes, stop pity, they are only making the game more p2w. Give the player limited resources with limited time exceptions, pure gacha, a simple monetization after a thoughtful gameplay design and say: find a way. However just a handful of games are capable of such because they're huge enough to risk this approach. PS: grind sucks, stop being brainwashed the only reason we accept to do is the reward after. Use brain = fun. Active play and intellectual process is game.
Gacha games are a blight upon humanity. I should have stopped at the Fate VN, now I've been saving for Caster Artoria for 7 fucking months, this is a cry for help.
Azur Lane and Arknights are the two gacha games i mainly play. Both are very generous when it comes to rewards. Not perfect but seriously free to play. Highly recommend.
@@skell6134 Counter: Wait, ain't time consuming category just Gacha games altogether? What a shocker! Clearing a stage that is Uncleared, takes roughly around 20 minutes. There are too, also many ways to level your ships. You can slap on easily 35000+ exp in around a day, offline. There's in it too that you can't easily get bored, for you have to interact 99% of the time and have a goal to achieve. To be all honest, just a normal daily clearing consumes 20-25 fucking minutes of your life, and that itself helps you gain quite a few resources for pulls and whatnot
This is pure copium, gacha games are not only definitively p2w, but are also part of the cancer killing the shitty gaming industry. In an actual game designed to be played and enjoyed, you obtain items (charcters, weapons, cosmetics, etc) by playing the game and overcoming challenges, and this adds complexity to the game over time since the more you achieve, the more tools you have to play with. In contrast, in gacha games (and to an extent most games the past 5 years that have been monetization-raped), your only reward for clearing content or overcoming challenges is some currency, currency that is the equivalent to maybe 1/10th of a random character, to manipulate and bait you into spending money to get what you actually want so you can have more fun with the game. The reason things are this way is because this industry has been taken over by investors and the whole goal for developers is no longer to create a compelling/interesting gameplay experience, but rather to create an addictive cycle to please their investors, it is a business and you are the guinea pig feeding rich corporations that do not give a fuck about you.
I REALLY wanted to finish this video before Elden Ring releases so I've been editing non-stop the last 2 days. My head hurts... Make sure to drop by when I stream this weekend! I don't expect many people to show up so you're presence is very much appreiacted
This is what I keep try to explain to people and they don't understand it. GI is not Pvp at all and there is no competitiveness at all hence there is no pay to win.
I am so glad this video exists. It points exactly everything i took years to learn as a gacha enjoyer in one condensed package. Brilliant, and this, combined with the fact that you love kaguya-sama have earned you a sub from me
You lost me after categorizing gacha games as PvE only. If this video was only about Genshin, I would've agreed with most of the points, but that's because Genshin doesn't have PvP unlike most of gacha games and it's not as much predatory. Gacha games are usually low quality phone games where not only has PvP with p2w aspects, but also they're usually pay to progress in PvE campaigns as well. I would definitely put gacha games in the same category as fifa, it's just that Genshin is an exception, because of the same points you made in the video and those points doesn't fall on every other gacha games.
He also fails to bring up how pulling for new characters give enjoyment through new gameplay/content or through desire/want (because they look cool/sexy/story-relevant etc).
One thing that can hook me into a game is the gameplay, and when we are talking about gacha games. Most of them have shitty gameplay, but good thing i found one game that has that gameplay i love. And f2p friendly with good gacha. So yeah i just play one gacha game
For me, if content is good, it's good enough. I have this passive resistance to microtransactions that makes me simply stop playing a game if it feels impossible to keep playing after a point.
hmm, beating the odds and learn from community... the first mobile game i feel so immersed was "Brave Frontier", and now its server, and all related IP, was closed for good after thriving for years. and along that time i play the game, i was kinda, surprised myself, really. at first, i play with whatever free stuff i got and try to clear the challenge. and i can do it. yeah. learn what needed and not and see if i have something to adapt. but, my mindset start to steer toward greediness upon i realized i was almost collected all units/stuff available in index, and left some spot locked. every roll later, for every dupes i got, i feel disappointed. it was... wow... what a nasty experience.
As someone who was desperate enough to spend money on wisdom cubes for Musashi in Azur Lane, I can confirm that it didn't quite feel right to do so. But at least I now have my second Yamato-class, even though I didn't really deserve her.
@@tanknerd7193 and i dind't used money for get more cubes, actualy almost every time a new banner appears i already have like 100 or 120 cubes and i just pull and pull until i run out of resources and wait until the next time
Only reason i play gacha games is because they arent afraid to sexualize their games. Unlike the western games, pandering to twitter accounts. I don't need porn in my games. I just want some revealing clothing or sexy poses make the game a better experience for me.
Maybe for other people oversexualized game lost immersion. Imagine a fantasy world where all the big boobs girl are powerful and kicka55 and guys are just side characters because they dont sell as well.
Brother you named like 3 gacha games that are not P2W. Now look at the 99% that have pvp enabled like Honkai Impact the same Miohoyo publisher for Genshin Impact and its P2W af.
That's not right ..... some are, some are not. Also it depends what you want to achieve in the game, some want just to collect characters, some just to complete the story and others want to be on the top position of a leaderboard. You can try to play Genshin Impact, there is not a single moment in the game that you really need to spend money to progress in the story. I would call it even the most casual and playerfriendly game I ever played in my whole life.
This is what im saying for almost a year now specially in genshin that if you whale you lose because not only the game is f2p friendly and all the contents and events are available without spending a dime the game content are super easy that even if you are f2p you can beat the hardest content in the game... That why a lot of burned out players and content creator are whales they didnt even go to grind or explore or go doing quest theyre just there wishing.
@Zold my friend,the game is more than the gacha. Its a open world rpg. Not a roulette game. The gacha is bad?Yes,gacha sucks,but Genshin isnt the only bad gacha game,hes a good game with a bad gacha not a bad game with bad gacha.
@Zold you are replying a comment talking about Genshin,and hope i understand you were talking about all gacha?Nah bruh. The artifact system sucks nothing to say about it. Leveling a chacter take nothing but a week to lvl 80,talent 8-8-8,just play the game. You pay for more stamina,but dont give you guaranteed good drops or good artifacts. The game IS more than that,the combat is awesome,the OST is amazing,tha chacters are cool and the exploration is pretty satisfactory. I play this game since day 1,i know the bads and the goods,there is a lot of bads,but they dont nullify the goods.
@Zold just stop looking at gacha and go like "duuhhh this game have gacha it sucks duuhhh". If you dont like it,just dont play it,if you cant accept a game with gacha so go on,play other game. Just dont summarize the game to only gacha.
@@sempreburro every gacha community content are either NSFW fanarts or pull videos, the fan content that focus on gameplay is nearly nonexistent or if it exist nobody gives a damn about it unlike shitty low effort overused memes. Thats almost all gacha games realities that fandoms show to the outsider which create this impression that gacha games have always poor though gameplay which is half true but funny enough cases like Genshin and FGO show what some good marketing and decent gameplay with good quality control can do to incentive people to throw their money into what is basically gambling with extra steps. Genshin gameplay is there to make sure you are engaging with its product enought time to convince you to spend money. And with every year they create new tactics to make people spending more and more. Funny now how mobile game development went from gameplay innovation to monetization innovation.
i have played many different gachas over the course of the years and yes i spent money on some of them, namely Arknights and FGO and this video has not changed my mind on them in any way whatsoever, i still think playing them is the worst decision any human could make and i will keep playing them
You are correct. Most of the Gatcha games is not pay to win. But pay to progress faster/save time or pay to collect. They are collectible games. But once game include PvP then it is gets P2W really fast.
So that what you ideal call pay to lose. Only thing I would agree with you on counting as losing is.... You lose money when you can get it for free if you are really be patient enough and save up stuff to get it in the end. I not going fully agree with you on. Making the game easier is not going to be bad to every body. Not every body into hardcore challenger. Then again... There many ways to think of losing. Let say the game server is close and you never got all the character you in the end. Or... There is a event and you never get the character you want. Or..... You never get to beat event mission before it end. Well you get the ideal. By the end of the day. Person that playing the game choose what do they think is winning or losing in the end. Basically what they think is right or what they think is wrong from their point of view.
Playing gacha games is just another form of self-punishment, except you join a community of people just like you to suffer together with... excluding the whales.
I love the rolling aspect of Gacha games. Getting random and rare stuff through luck. It reminds me of opening up TCG booster packs in real life. BUT I really hate how much of a ripoff they are.
May I speak as someone a lot older than you? I am a 72 year old woman who has loved gaming since the days when you needed a pen and paper to play. Life has taught me some different meanings for the words ‘challenge’ and ‘success’ and the others you mentioned. Games are meant to be fun. If you think it is fun to try, fail, learn, and try again…you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I spent my life doing all of that stuff. I play games to chill. Gacha is predatory, no doubt about it. But the Souls series of games are out of my reach and inclination without ample doses of Cheat Engine. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Same, I play games to chill and have fun. That's why I don't like either Souls series or gacha games. Souls is try and fail over and over to beat a boss. Gacha is gamble with summoning tickets over and over to get a character I want
@@satoriakihiro1283 no argument there. It works as long as the publishers of super-hard games understand that they are telling people like me not to buy. Doesn’t bother me. I play something else. It’s an….interesting market strategy but…whatever.
@@mjdibella i mean its called focused segmentation marketing its nothing new or unique its just people like you probably end up seeing elden ring cause is a big hit and think it was marketed to you but like genshin impact they probably never meant or thought their game would go out of their market segment but word of mouth is more OP then ever with Twitter and shit
@@satoriakihiro1283 oh, I am quite sure that nobody markets video games at elderly women. But there is a market of people who need extra help to play. Accessibility is a ‘thing’.
This. People don't pull to win, they pull to play a character that isn't dirt boring forever. Imagine playing a gacha with the starting characters from start to finish. That would be the most boring, dull and tedious experience ever. If you're playing a live-service (yes, a gacha is a live-service), then you expect the gameplay to change or improve as you go on. Also some people want to pull for characters that fit thematically for the story, so that's another incentive. Some others are trend-chasers and pull for characters for the same reason you'd buy a certain piece of clothing, to impress or relate to your friends or acquaintances. This video has a point, but the point it makes is in itself mostly pointless.
As someone who played a lot of FGO, it's absolutely not pay to win, but it is pay to have fun. What's not mentioned here is the obscene amount of daily grinding needed to raise lower rarity units up strong enough to compete in a fun way, and how completely riduculously repeitive that grind it. You can cut that time down by 1/20th by having a certain mixture of limited SSR units though, to the point where you can set up an autoclicker and have it just grind the game for you. No one likes grinding in the game, it's not fun at all, but it's necessary in order to have fun, and having limited SSRs makes it take fractions upon fractions of your real life time, down to almost none at all. Not to mention getting those SSRs might not change your odds of winning, but they all have story content locked behind them, gameplay mechanics locked behind them, and not to mention just the act of your favorite character only being available on a 0.8% chance for 2 weeks every two years is absolute horse shit. If you aren't paying, your suffering is the reason that whales *are* paying in order to actually have fun with these games. If you have to spend hours every day doing content you don't want to do, you are effectively whaling. Cross that time with working a real life job and the money you'd be making is how much you're spending in order to "play for free" every hour you spend doing something you don't explicitly want to do in game.
Lmao most of the f2p that I know (including myself although I only pay in the last paid banner) have several meta servants and can farm without any problem, I have oberon and koyanskaya with artoria, Napoleon, maoh nobu, and several other Buster servants, so technically farming is no longer a problem for me haha
Honesty, the only mobile game I have actually spent time into and didn't drop after a week or so is a gacha game. Currently waiting for it's 4th anniversary
It's funny when I look up a game with fake ads, only to find out people actually have fanbases dedicated to them, which makes me pity them. Raid Shadow Legends, Hero Wars and Warthunder come to mind. As for the popular (non anime spinoff) gachas like Azur Lane Blue Archive Girls Frontline Genshin Impact Granblue Fantasy Fate Grand Order Arknights Nikke- KWAAAH I BIT MY TONGUE! They have large fanbases and unique gameplay elements that raise them above the competittytion. For example, Arknights is a tower defense while Azur Lane is a side scrolling shootemup. The effort put into standing out is comendable when it's made. In particular, Genshin Impact feels less like a shitty mobile game and more like an open world action rpg with gacha elements to encourage supporting it. Like a TH-cam channel with a Patreon on the side.
No amount of Limited 5 Star Servants in FGO will ever give me the same satisfaction as rolling one day and getting some generic 4-star Berserker with a pretty bland-looking 1st ascension, then later encountering her in the Agartha story and sympathizing with her backstory, how she feels disrespected because people only see her as "omg hot waifu" and not as a warrior, feeling guilt at her bond 5 lines and immediately grailing her to Lv 100, raising all skill levels to 10, and then taking her into the Aeaean Spring Breeze challenge Quest and, after burning up all 3 command spells plus one more when the regeneration period rolls over, have her beat the *ever-loving shit* out of Odysseus as the last unit standing and with barely a sliver of health remaining. Beauty _Eclipsed_
I confess I am too stupid to play arknights, simply because there are too many types of characters and I and VERY bad with making my own synergies, and I am too prideful to go online and look for a easy answer... But just because it's kinda of a puzzle game, I do this to most other gachas I play... And I sometimes wonder why my teams in granblue are bad. Also if you pay to win in gacha games you miss the good gambling serotonin juices on your brain, that is spending your fake currency on a chance to hit the jackpot of your desired pngs, Live2Ds or 3D models, making you feel like you are trading NFTs, but the only market crash is personal fake currency and time, some gachas can consume a entire day, gamers, remember, play only 1 or a couple if you are a little daredevil, and take brakes PLEASE.
5:22 This is why I don't like Gacha payment system gamed and why I didn't try even one ever. Sure they may not force you to "pay to win" but what they also do is waste your time on mindless gameplay. I already played a game like that long ago, Plants Vs Zombies 2, and while it does have PvP, it's not whay made me stop(although it was close) what made me stop is Penny's Pursuit, a finally PvE content and it was just boring grind. And while I'm definitely sure there are dozens if not hundreds of games that were worse than pvz2, this was still too bad for me, so I just... Uninstalled PvZ2 and never looked back. Heck I even had some rare plants that weren't bought with dollars but with gems(in game but rare currency) like Gold Bloom, PopCap apparently made Gold bloom super rare to find if never, and while it did made me reconsider leaving for a second I still left 😅
The winning aspect in PvE comes from leaderboard. In 2012 People are familiar with rage bahamut, valkyrie crusade, blood brother, etc. They always have event with super rare card as reward from leaderboard. During this event they always release new card that deal 100-200% more damage to event's mob/boss. And guess what? the whale is always the leader.
I quit all of my gacha/live service games cold turkey style in August 2023, and it is the best thing I have done in the last 5 years. The mental clarity, the time in my day I got back, the increase in savings, etc. The first couple weeks I missed it out of habit, but after a month had gone by I realized how seriously messed up in the head I really was for thinking those games were good. I would suggest quitting to anyone, you will not regret it.
And then there's me who is f2p on FGO but owns 36 SSR servants (I started in late 2019) PS. I don't even regularly play FGO, I just open it whenever I'm in the mood to open it. I'm still stuck on LB3 and missed a lot of banners and events
Same. I started in 2020 exclusively F2P (barring GSSR, and even then within 2 years I wasted like $20, which I think isn't bad for how long I played it) and got 19 SSRs. While it's not that much, nearly all of them are quality ones (nearly all meta support except Tamamo, Spishtar, and several top-tier servants as well). For me though, I do try to finish events, but most of the time it's near the event completion lol. That, and I'll at least get the login bonus, and sometimes will leave the game running to farm, automatically through FGA, while I play GT7.
I just imagine tasty food i can buy and save for that and go buy that food and enjoy for 30min to few hrs and it's more worth then average dopamine i get from games , non games have game me more happiness then food , unless i stuck in some places where i can't buy those food then i would spend on game so it's weird
Except roguelikes don't time-gate you and don't need you to grind DAILY or spend money to unlock more game content. You boot it up, play as much as you want, get story and character progression and then shut the game down when you're satisfied. When will you boot it up again? Whenever you're in the mood.
@@paledrake You... Don't? Did you play AK? Just asking... In AK, every months there's new content around one latest Roguelike theme, yeah there's time-gated operator clear but once the updates all rolled out, the time-gated operator clear will reappear, giving you chance to clear them. There's no money-gated stuff in AK's Roguelike, and as someone who just spend ~$5 dilla in a whole 4 years of playing, I don't see any P2P in AK Roguelike. I'm someone that loves grinding stages but that's just because I enjoying that. A bit of a slog but it's aight. I can skip days for touching grass here and there and still beat the boss ass ez, even if I'm feeling squeazy, 4 stars clear why not? Where does this "Except Roguelikes don't time-gate you and don't need you to grind DAILY or spend money to unlock more game content" coming from? If you're referring to the Gacha aspects of AK, I... Dun...really...need to spend??? I mean sure I wish to get some characters either because of want or nessecity, but it's not time-gated. The only time-gated one are anniversaries and festival (Summer & Chinese New Year), and even that if you don't get what you want, they will come again in another anniversaries/festivals, or if you REALLY want to get them, then sure, 300 pulls for spark. If you really wanna talk about true time-gated, then it's collab event you after. Rainbow 6 Siege one will get a rerun months after this comment is up, with a new event regarding said collab beforehand. There's Monster Hunter, but that's a bit vague if they wanna rerun the event in the future. There's Destiny collab they cooking but there's no other news around that either. So yeah, you don't need an absolute meta pulls to beat AK's stages. Do with what you have, will be harder, but doesn't mean it's impossible.
@@tomatomaki I've tried AK in the past, didn't get far as I thought the gameplay was boring and the story presentation not impressive enough to justify gacha grinding. Also it's not about "do you need to spend money to progress" it's about being able to enjoy the game like you want. Can you only enjoy the game if you get new character? That is how most people feel, they WANT new characters so they can enjoy them in their old game. They don't want to be stuck playing the same way with the same characters for years and because people have preferences for whatever reason they'll want specific characters that appeal to them. And people don't want to wait to enjoy something, they already have a limited amount of free-time or other things they want to do. No one wants to baby-sit or slave away at a gacha game because they need to grind to progress or need to grind for premium currency unless they want to spend obscene amounts of real money.
@@paledrake The gameplay and story of AK isn't what everyone liked, and the first few chapters are a slog, there's some nack of writing, it ain't that good. But if you wanna catch up AK's story without playing the game, there's 2 season, 8 EPs. Each of AK anime, and upcoming 3rd season if you're interested, still there's some nacks but it's better. For "Can you only enjoy the game if yiu get new character" bit, I can't speak for everyone that play AK because I know someone who wants newer character, but I also know someone who wants older, classic character.
You may be right, but i still won't play these games, so I wouldn't know. All i know is the annoying ads i see 24/7 And wondering who are these people making these games money?
As i play gatcha anime games like one piece gatcha games, i would say for mobile games u can pay to win in some games u buy pulls to get your fav hero or pirate or what ever u get best team 1 week later a new characters will be better and for 25% discount and it has arena and shit like that
I won't I could say the same thing as league of legends personally. I played for a long time I reached gm season 6 after spending a ton of money and I quit. The difference in gatcha games is that they are easy to play and the majority of the people are lazy and prefer "easy". I personally agree with you for most things except I would say genshin has one thing going for it and it is that it actually has gameplay unlike most other gatcha games. I don't really like playing it for the grindy aspect as much but for the beautiful music and overall landscape. At the end of the day it depends on the person I suppose.
i play gacha games sinse what? 2017 f2p gacha player have to do daily grinding, overcome the odds of not having what i need in character to build my team, or dry my energy daily to grind materials to raise my characters. overcome the levels of the campaing or the event... and i'm still feling that i just did what i needed to be done. acomplishment my ass! gachas are not fun! this is truly bullshit! a fun game makes you feel happy by the time you play, not by the ammount of suffering you must endure to just "limit break" a character to send them to war, god damn it!these games are made to grind every day! granted, arknight are focus on skill (or not if you have surtr) even so, grinding sucks in every gacha games! the reason why the current players like these games are not that... these games are just distractions
I play F2P (well, only one, FGO, since I'm actually familiar with the franchise) as a side game myself, refusing to spend money on there at all. For example, when I wait for a lobby or after playing endurance races in GT7, I'll launch FGO, have a quick play, then close it back once the lobby is ready or I want to play GT7 again.
You grind irl, you hate it, at least you got paid.
You grind in game, you hate it. What you got?
Something that'll just be useless after sometime and after services gets cut you can never access it ever again cause they'll take the game down and eradicate it from the face of the earth, Fun right???
It depends, if you grind several hours, of course you will hate it, if you just do it some minutes a day or when you really feel good, no problem, if the person is an addict is a whole different problem, you have no reason to login all days, you don't lose anything or pay for playing, you can keep playing with the same characters and enjoy the experience or just put some money to get the character you want, that's it xD.
TLDR: Don't grind, play when you like, you lose nothing for not playing all days, want a character? swipe or do events, easy.
What if I dont hate the grind?
Ou pay to do it
@@zardon_zane1630i do it for small amounts and still hate it. It's rng bs built to take money.
There's three kinds of games.
Free to Play
Pay to Win
and worst of all
Pay to Progress
You forgot Play to Win
@@juncastillo3498 pay to play? Isn't it like every paid game?
@@kaszup7955 What I mean about pay to play is you have to pay every month just like in the early 2000's when online gaming is starting out. Not the ones you have to pay one time.
Pay to progress is pay to win. Progress is winning, you stupid.
There are pay to win and pay to lose only if the game allows in-game purchases. And pay to lose being especifically a pay to win when is worse to the player than not paying at all.
@@kaszup7955 p2p is also called subscription games. WoW and FFXIV are p2p games
“Dark Souls being kind of like the Dark Souls of video games” was the best line of the video
Personaly, i dont play games to be frustrated, so i dont know, i love that everybody kind of forget videogames existed before dark souls and hard ones
@@Krysnhathey were mostly arcade and the hard ones that weren't had guides.
@@reddytoplay9188 true
@Krysnha dark souls was a correction of gaming. At the time games were trending easier and more hand holdy. That's why it's iconic and memorable on top of it's execution and setting
Also take in mind that Dark Souls is an *actual* game, unlike most gachas.
The problem with Genshin is that it wasn't made for skillful gameplay. It was made for optimal damage gameplay.
No, the problem is that its a gacha
funnier knowing you can play the game just fine even when ignoring the gacha system.
@@Aeternum_Zephyria no you can't, unless you give it so much time. And forgive me if I sound rude but, some of us just don't have the time to waste on a game like you.
I'm down to play the game after they just finish the story. That way Ik who to pull and what to do so I can pull them.
...but my point still stands. You can play the game just fine WITHOUT the gacha (even with minimum time investment). the optimal damage is really only for consistently* clearing 9* on floor 12 of the abyss (which is PURELY optional). And since the game focuses more on the open-world aspect, there's really no need for meta characters to pull for.
@alphamonder Yeah but assuming that the gacha system does get removed, what kind of system would you put in to replace it?
Also the gacha is why the game is being funded for development to keep the game free to play and their other games too, and as seen in their profits it works whether you like it or not. At least it's not like those games that ask you to pay for the game upfront THEN ask you to buy lootboxes. That's something else.
Oh- and one more thing. If you really don't support these kinds of systems, just don't play the game/pay for the services. (in case you don't know that yet)
Waifu > Meta. All day, every day, on every game.
You're no more likely to gamble and get your waifu than you are to gamble and get the meta
Truely... this is the Way. I have been saving for 2 years for morgan
Until a prettier one comes out and you forget the old one faster than you can waste your money and pulls.
@@fluttzkrieg4392 if you're loyal to your Waifu, you'll only have to save until they release a new version of her, saves you money/currency xD
@@juakored In a way, that's true. I used to play Genshin and once I got Ayaka (favorite character in terms of design and personality), I stopped playing a few months later.
Oh you're a f2p player? Get ready to suffer cause your life, time, and energy is gonna be lost, miss a single fucking day and your progress is reset
i still remember how hype i am when genshin release, grind everyday and got a character that I don't like, keep grinding and can't beat the odds, even grinding artefacts getting rough. And i gave up. Until one day i decided to buy account that has the character that I wanted, play it for good 8 hours, and never touch the game ever again. I'm just done. In the end, i don't feel the same feeling like in my first day playing the game after buying an account.
For me i play videogames all mi life, mi problem with many gatcha games, is they become boring at the end, and many games iw atned wont come to mi zone, so at the end, gatcha i have king of figthers, because at least it has nice gameplay, i play arknigths and at te end of the day was bored, azur lane, in the last worlds become so hard i was grinding more than anything, and wich character make mi pepe goes hard, barely have any fanservice outside the asian server, so if you dont know how to speack japanese, no thanks
Buying account is way better than spending a godly amount of money
😐
What is the name of the song in the outro
genshin is just like a typical gacha game to me rn. it was only fun at the beginning.
I'd argue they're not pay2lose but play2lose.
As soon as you play you're going to be subjected to a bunch of psychological tricks to try and get you to spend money.
You are playing to be manipulated, and sooner or later when your situation allows for it, and it doesn't seem like a big deal.. ah.. 10 bucks isn't that much is it..?
They always get you in the end.
10$ 😂 that's only the entry n small honey moon fee lol
It racks up very fast into the hundreds thousands over the years
Sunk Fallacy moment
The game worth 5-10 usd per month. I used to play online morpg with that price in 15 years until now. Devs need to eat too.
@@simonshura9144 the €10 is the cheap deal they get you to fill your credit card info in with.
After that the barrier to purchasing is lower and the bigger transactions start.
played Genshin since release and hadnt spent a dime
BRO as another gacha gamer who's been in the f2p/dolphin life for years this video is so true. All the "good" ones are rarely p2w, which are often the most popular ones.
No even rarely, but negative if you do. Terrible rates, bad monetization deals, off-meta SSRs, etc
Epic 7 fr
There are some gacha game out there that are P2W but from your thumbnail I can confirmed that AK is P2L because higher rarity character has the same stat scaling while their stat are better their raise cost are fking way higher and farming stages reward you with low resources so it took longer to raise 6star or 5star than 3,4star
Pretty much you can clear the campaign, events and other content with low rarity because the game is intended to play that way 5,6 star are mostly relevant in later stages or for you to just collect them as waifu or husbando
Want to beat AK fast? Go watch walk through. But if you want to beat it with your 5,6star waifu or want to has some creativity you just need to raise them to a high enough level which going to take times(it may or may not workout). Good luck
Everything you said is just pointless.
Higher-rarity characters actually have the same stats (almost) as low-rarity operators, but that's what makes the game good. You can beat the game (if you have enough intellect to deploy operators properly) even with 3 and 4-star operators.
One chinese guy even has speedran the game using only the low-rarity operators, which has spent 24-hours to do.
I am, personally, never watched AK walkthroughs, if i failed to clear a stage, i took my time, think about the enemies and the operators that i have, and eventually i was able to clear a stage.
That game also isn't about the waifus (because only few of them only want you, and even less of them want you in a romantic way) or pay to win/pay to lose, because you get premium currency for just clearing the level with 3 stars, and grinding is simplified with auto-deploy function.
@@PetyaKokHmm i thought beating the game with 3 and 4*s is common route for most of players? While 5 and 6*s are mostly "fun fact" type of characters just to toy around different strategies.
@@tangomilano4503 Can't say this for arknights. Game guarantees you one six-star anyway, and they're relatively easy to get with 2% rate on banners. 5-stars are much easier to get with 8% rate on banners. So for arknights, more common route is the use of 4-5* with one or two 6*, that are like carrying you.
It reminds me a situation I when I was playing a game with my niece. She was angry she cannot beat me so she kept asking me to let her win. I didn't let her win for a while, then I told her I will let her win. She felt accomplished. I told her to play again and I let her win again. And again. And again. After few games she didn't want to play anymore because she was bored. She didn't realize why, but victory doesn't feel the same if you know it was not earned.
I agree. FGO is definitely one of the games ever made
its one of the games ever made?
One of the best you mean and i agreed
One of the best for wasting your money on
@@walnutstudio502 You can complete entire story with only 3*
@@animememer4931 Your gonna sit there and pretend the game isn’t marketed at horny men trying to get different pngs of their favourite anime girls and that most players play the game with 2 characters
literarly 30 seconds into the video and im already laughing😭
this man is a comedian😂
I spent 140 dollars on dragon ball legends and didnt get the new character.
This is definitely a new low.
Imagine how many games you could've bought that would've gived you hundrends to thousands of hours of enjoyment for the money you spent.
@@justthere845 200 now
@@semanity870 yikes
@@justthere845Factorio
I spent some money for Taoqi and ChangLi, I don't feel bad since was money that I got from my job bonus, I have my characters and I'm saving for another one using the pass and some events (Im talking about WuWa) And I'm glad I did it, I wont have to grind as hard, I can play less time and fell more fun cuz I have a goal and the character I want, I play 30 minutes or a few hours on weekends, I also do other stuff but yeah, depends of your way of being and selfcontrol
As a Arknights player
I havent pay to win to get the characters i wanted so badly
I have to grind for many days or months
You have to be patient for the new Ops or rerun
Now i have to wait for W rerun
YOSTAR PLEASE RERUN W
As the Doktuh from Arknights, I used my brain, not my money to play the game.
Well, if you schedule right time to play every day, you saved your time for something important in your life and progress the game.
I'm gonna marry Thoma and you can't chance my mind.
invite me to your wedding, so that i can get to know bennett. please.
My issue with them is that they can get discouraging quickly or that it gets too hard for Free to Play.
I'm in a love hate relationship with gacha games. Love the resource management and RNG aspects but I hate all the limitations and punishment for not playing daily.
I remember playing Genshin on release with a friend and we were trying to compete to see who could reach AR 40 first. He pulled 2 Keqing's and a Venti while I was chillin with a Qiqi and eventually my Jean. It wasn't until 6 months after us not playing anymore where he mentioned that he spent like $700 on the game. It felt weird because up until that point he just acted like he was lucky, smart and really good at the game which is why he was progressing so much faster than me but it just turned out he was spending money to buy Resin. Even though there was no PvP it felt like we were competing.
All of that to say, I don't agree that PvP is the defining factor for a game to be considered pay to win as it disregards how we socially interact with games.
We create competition in single player games ourselves. There's world firsts, speed running, leaderboards and even friend to friend challenges where people regularly compare themselves to each other. Paying to be at the top of those leaderboards destroys competition. You can make a paid and nonpaid category but it's really hard to verify if somebodies spent money or just got really lucky.
There's also a social aspect. When we achieve something, we share it. When we fail something repeatedly, we share it. We reinforce bad habits by upvoting the "I spent $50,000 on this game" videos and posts leading to people thinking it's fine and makes more people want to do that so they too can get recognition.
If you truly see the game as "Pay to Lose" what's your reasoning people spending money on C6 characters?
If you solely come at the P2W argument from a "is there a PvP mode" you miss so much of what "winning" even is.
Arknights made a good job making the game f2 friendly, since as he said you can beat every story stage with units that are basically free and able to get without a single in-game currency lost, and when the stage needs dps you can basically go to support, grab a meta unit that is easily avaliable cuz its meta and it will basically do the dps you want and you will win, for example getting goldenglow (does the right dps) to borrow your caster (that doesnt do the right dps) and its done if your strat is good enough.
As a slightly veteran player who is now waiting for avalon le fae, the only thing i would say to future gacha gamers is "that's hell you're walking into"
Many gacha games nowadays have pvp. Those that don't have leaderboards comparing players to each other. Players who pay for stronger characters and equipment have an advantage over other players who haven't spent as much or not at all. Often resulting in them beating them or getting higher scores than them despite being less skilled at the game. This is the definition of p2w. And the whales are very much enjoying stomping the f2p masses.
And the strongs get stronger
The definition of pay to win does not exclude pve. This pve argument has been debunked so many times. Also, you can compete with others in pve and even singleplayer through records like speedrunning. Some games even have a high score in single player. Pve is not exlusive to singleplayer. This video got a lot of things wrong. Gotcha games still suck and will always suck.
I agree, it's just that people prefer pay to win in PVE than in PVP because PVE feels less worse than PVP
@@kazaba1715 Those people have a flawed mindset then.
@@Gigakoopz the only game I could think of having lootboxes is a good thing is the multiplayer for ME3 (Mass Effect 3) because in that game u could unlock every character, weapon, and boost for free in the loot boxes because u get credits from playing the game so u have an option to buy the loot boxes or play more and the harder content in that game reward u more credits. BTW this is a PVE gamemode and the loot boxes have a higher tier that cost more credits. But this is essentially giving free players an artificial grind so yeah this is still pay to win
Just gonna throw it out there : Honkai impact 3rd has you only fighting NPC enemies, but has you competing for actual in game currency rewards with other players. Its a great game for its single player, but a whale who knows how to read the in game tutorials will still outperform you and be rewarded much more for it.
this mentality of "p2w is ok since its PvE" is on par with "using guides in SPGs is ok" -new gen of "gamers"
back then we didnt have PvP. it used to be...
x: i beat this game
y: yeaaaaaaaaaa but u used a guide tho soooooOooooooOoooOOOOOOO000000000ooooõooooO...
...nah
you wouldnt get it if you dont put much thinking(ik thought itw but this is easier 4 them 2 understand) on to it
you used a "map"(cheat) for the "maze"(game). you wouldnt have been able to finish it(stuck on that 1 puzzle/"skill(mechanical) check/boss/odin forbid a common-spawn enemy). theres no "technicality" to it
think about it for once. you used a guide to beat a puzzle that the rest of players didnt == you paid for items, gear, upgrades(incl. getting there faster literally( *time is money/power* ) & by "levelling-wise"), characters to beat a challenge(ie a battle/encounter ie PvE) that other players didnt
they would then argue
"bUt BuT y0u CaN jUsT Gr!Nd tO eVeNtUaLlY WiN" thats the fcking point. you(who paid) didnt waste time "training"(grinding) by paying while we had to repeat that sht x times to clear a "challenge". in this context/premise, not grinding is the winning part. "oh you havent beaten The Ancient Grand Zombie Godlike Dragon V2.1.1 Arcane Element Poison Remix Anniversary Limited Edition yet? cuz ur only lvl 70??? not yet max enhanced, quad socketted, awakened flip flop wala wala beng beng? u r not that stronk. ur a *loser* lol" -sips his p2w cucktail
"iTs NoT p2W cUz YoU d0nT W!N(like in an spg)" like fucking duhhhh. its a live service game, dumbass. if it were to end would you be happy of your purchase(paying)? what do you expect? you buy The Uber Sword Of r3TaRdeDne$$ & expect the game to shutdown you dont even get to swing The Uber Sword Of R~(game over -> credits roll -> "high score to the dumbass who spent $1000")
ill be accused of "gatekeeping" tho
an old new buzzwrd getting some traction these days lowl
I agree with your point, like 3 of these games are not P2W, but I think it's subconsciously controlling people's time and mind,I mean if you can completely separate gacha game and your life,then it's totally fine to play gacha game, but the problem is most of kids ,they couldn't focus on learning new stuff or think about their future because their mind is full of gacha games,not only they would be like that, many adults would feel in this way and don't want to think of their future, it's not about that you just need to spend a little time on it , it's about how it would affect your mind or even your life in a long term.
In fact, the rule to say wheter a gacha game is good is how much as p2l the game is. If you are not incentivized to spend by how the elements in the game arrange themselves, instead disincentivized by making difficult and not worth it compared to the f2p alternative then you know is not predatory. A gacha game is good if you gain more by not spending and that means you are only receiving financial problems when you do. Stop best buys, stop starter packs, stop battle passes, stop pity, they are only making the game more p2w. Give the player limited resources with limited time exceptions, pure gacha, a simple monetization after a thoughtful gameplay design and say: find a way. However just a handful of games are capable of such because they're huge enough to risk this approach.
PS: grind sucks, stop being brainwashed the only reason we accept to do is the reward after. Use brain = fun. Active play and intellectual process is game.
Gacha games are a blight upon humanity. I should have stopped at the Fate VN, now I've been saving for Caster Artoria for 7 fucking months, this is a cry for help.
I got over 600 quarts stashed away for her.
@@guardiansoulblade2673 I have 1060 😔
@@ACasualWeeb did you get your Castoria?
@@EirinYagokoro The worst thing was, she came home in one ticket lmaoooo
Azur Lane and Arknights are the two gacha games i mainly play. Both are very generous when it comes to rewards. Not perfect but seriously free to play. Highly recommend.
I can argue about Azur lane tbh because its TOO time consuming(As consuming as it consumes my phone storage)while Arknights doesnt take much time
@@skell6134 Counter: Wait, ain't time consuming category just Gacha games altogether? What a shocker!
Clearing a stage that is Uncleared, takes roughly around 20 minutes. There are too, also many ways to level your ships. You can slap on easily 35000+ exp in around a day, offline.
There's in it too that you can't easily get bored, for you have to interact 99% of the time and have a goal to achieve.
To be all honest, just a normal daily clearing consumes 20-25 fucking minutes of your life, and that itself helps you gain quite a few resources for pulls and whatnot
@@skell6134 most gacha game are time consuming, what you on about.
@@Xenitity Azur lane usually consumes much more time than 25 minutes
@@Arbiter_XVI Azur lane consumes most
4:33 ironically there's one gacha game that has that naming, aptly named too. Punishing gray raven
This is pure copium, gacha games are not only definitively p2w, but are also part of the cancer killing the shitty gaming industry. In an actual game designed to be played and enjoyed, you obtain items (charcters, weapons, cosmetics, etc) by playing the game and overcoming challenges, and this adds complexity to the game over time since the more you achieve, the more tools you have to play with. In contrast, in gacha games (and to an extent most games the past 5 years that have been monetization-raped), your only reward for clearing content or overcoming challenges is some currency, currency that is the equivalent to maybe 1/10th of a random character, to manipulate and bait you into spending money to get what you actually want so you can have more fun with the game. The reason things are this way is because this industry has been taken over by investors and the whole goal for developers is no longer to create a compelling/interesting gameplay experience, but rather to create an addictive cycle to please their investors, it is a business and you are the guinea pig feeding rich corporations that do not give a fuck about you.
This video is literally propaganda
I REALLY wanted to finish this video before Elden Ring releases so I've been editing non-stop the last 2 days. My head hurts...
Make sure to drop by when I stream this weekend! I don't expect many people to show up so you're presence is very much appreiacted
This is what I keep try to explain to people and they don't understand it. GI is not Pvp at all and there is no competitiveness at all hence there is no pay to win.
I am so glad this video exists. It points exactly everything i took years to learn as a gacha enjoyer in one condensed package. Brilliant, and this, combined with the fact that you love kaguya-sama have earned you a sub from me
You lost me after categorizing gacha games as PvE only. If this video was only about Genshin, I would've agreed with most of the points, but that's because Genshin doesn't have PvP unlike most of gacha games and it's not as much predatory.
Gacha games are usually low quality phone games where not only has PvP with p2w aspects, but also they're usually pay to progress in PvE campaigns as well. I would definitely put gacha games in the same category as fifa, it's just that Genshin is an exception, because of the same points you made in the video and those points doesn't fall on every other gacha games.
He also fails to bring up how pulling for new characters give enjoyment through new gameplay/content or through desire/want (because they look cool/sexy/story-relevant etc).
the press to win button is my favorite button in fate go and the reason I still play it
The FU button
my reaction to first encountering demeter
I love your content. One of the only TH-camrs that actually makes me laugh out loud
Thing is I know all this and yet I NEED TO SPEND MORE! THE FEELING IS DELICIOUS!!!
I am 38yo what am I going to do with me life 😅😂😂😂
Gacha is a scam
Ah i see you where summoned in the Pretender Class
One thing that can hook me into a game is the gameplay, and when we are talking about gacha games. Most of them have shitty gameplay, but good thing i found one game that has that gameplay i love. And f2p friendly with good gacha. So yeah i just play one gacha game
If you really want to play gacha games without spending money and enjoy patience and play. you will defientaly like it.
For me, if content is good, it's good enough. I have this passive resistance to microtransactions that makes me simply stop playing a game if it feels impossible to keep playing after a point.
you are blessed by the baldo
hmm, beating the odds and learn from community... the first mobile game i feel so immersed was "Brave Frontier", and now its server, and all related IP, was closed for good after thriving for years.
and along that time i play the game, i was kinda, surprised myself, really.
at first, i play with whatever free stuff i got and try to clear the challenge. and i can do it. yeah. learn what needed and not and see if i have something to adapt. but, my mindset start to steer toward greediness upon i realized i was almost collected all units/stuff available in index, and left some spot locked. every roll later, for every dupes i got, i feel disappointed. it was... wow... what a nasty experience.
As someone who was desperate enough to spend money on wisdom cubes for Musashi in Azur Lane, I can confirm that it didn't quite feel right to do so. But at least I now have my second Yamato-class, even though I didn't really deserve her.
literally i didn't get NJ in the banner rerun but at least i got implacable yorky II, shinano and musashi, oh also bismarck swei
@@ELMO899 lucky. Didn't get Bismarck Zwei
@@tanknerd7193 and i dind't used money for get more cubes, actualy almost every time a new banner appears i already have like 100 or 120 cubes and i just pull and pull until i run out of resources and wait until the next time
Only reason i play gacha games is because they arent afraid to sexualize their games. Unlike the western games, pandering to twitter accounts. I don't need porn in my games. I just want some revealing clothing or sexy poses make the game a better experience for me.
Maybe for other people oversexualized game lost immersion.
Imagine a fantasy world where all the big boobs girl are powerful and kicka55 and guys are just side characters because they dont sell as well.
at least your honest about it. I don't like your reason but the honesty is respectable
Weird reasoning but okay lol.
But they sometimes still get censored for western players like in destiny child.
LMAO! Huh???
Brother you named like 3 gacha games that are not P2W. Now look at the 99% that have pvp enabled like Honkai Impact the same Miohoyo publisher for Genshin Impact and its P2W af.
To be fair, Honkai Impact players eat 10x better than Genshin players ever will 😂
Not that I play Chinese propaganda
Whatever you say, gacha game lover. XD
yeah, nothing changed, I still don't feel dumb enough to think that gacha games aren't p2w, they all are, and they will always be.
That's not right ..... some are, some are not.
Also it depends what you want to achieve in the game, some want just to collect characters, some just to complete the story and others want to be on the top position of a leaderboard.
You can try to play Genshin Impact, there is not a single moment in the game that you really need to spend money to progress in the story. I would call it even the most casual and playerfriendly game I ever played in my whole life.
@@paluxyl.8682 Super-salty. X
@@IncognitoActivado Sorry, but I don't understand what "super-salty" means. Never heard the term before ^^
@@paluxyl.8682 Not my problem.
@@paluxyl.8682 Not my problem.
it's pay to feel good
either to clear the game easily or to show off that you get the newest character
This is what im saying for almost a year now specially in genshin that if you whale you lose because not only the game is f2p friendly and all the contents and events are available without spending a dime the game content are super easy that even if you are f2p you can beat the hardest content in the game... That why a lot of burned out players and content creator are whales they didnt even go to grind or explore or go doing quest theyre just there wishing.
@Zold how dafu casino is predatory if you dont have tokens in casino your out dum or if you win you just have easy money by 2x or so on
@Zold my friend,the game is more than the gacha. Its a open world rpg. Not a roulette game. The gacha is bad?Yes,gacha sucks,but Genshin isnt the only bad gacha game,hes a good game with a bad gacha not a bad game with bad gacha.
@Zold you are replying a comment talking about Genshin,and hope i understand you were talking about all gacha?Nah bruh.
The artifact system sucks nothing to say about it. Leveling a chacter take nothing but a week to lvl 80,talent 8-8-8,just play the game. You pay for more stamina,but dont give you guaranteed good drops or good artifacts.
The game IS more than that,the combat is awesome,the OST is amazing,tha chacters are cool and the exploration is pretty satisfactory. I play this game since day 1,i know the bads and the goods,there is a lot of bads,but they dont nullify the goods.
@Zold just stop looking at gacha and go like "duuhhh this game have gacha it sucks duuhhh". If you dont like it,just dont play it,if you cant accept a game with gacha so go on,play other game. Just dont summarize the game to only gacha.
@@sempreburro every gacha community content are either NSFW fanarts or pull videos, the fan content that focus on gameplay is nearly nonexistent or if it exist nobody gives a damn about it unlike shitty low effort overused memes. Thats almost all gacha games realities that fandoms show to the outsider which create this impression that gacha games have always poor though gameplay which is half true but funny enough cases like Genshin and FGO show what some good marketing and decent gameplay with good quality control can do to incentive people to throw their money into what is basically gambling with extra steps.
Genshin gameplay is there to make sure you are engaging with its product enought time to convince you to spend money. And with every year they create new tactics to make people spending more and more.
Funny now how mobile game development went from gameplay innovation to monetization innovation.
Well said. I am glad there is still people who make high quality gacha games video.
oh wait-
Changed my mind to hate these games even more and not finish this video
i have played many different gachas over the course of the years and yes i spent money on some of them, namely Arknights and FGO and this video has not changed my mind on them in any way whatsoever, i still think playing them is the worst decision any human could make and i will keep playing them
You are correct. Most of the Gatcha games is not pay to win. But pay to progress faster/save time or pay to collect. They are collectible games. But once game include PvP then it is gets P2W really fast.
Nope, not really.
@@IncognitoActivado Yep, really. But of course just for competitive ppl, not for these who don't care about PvP ;)
You can tell who has or does not have a mental illness by whether or not they playva gatcha game lol can do the same with slot machines in casinos
So that what you ideal call pay to lose. Only thing I would agree with you on counting as losing is.... You lose money when you can get it for free if you are really be patient enough and save up stuff to get it in the end. I not going fully agree with you on. Making the game easier is not going to be bad to every body. Not every body into hardcore challenger. Then again... There many ways to think of losing.
Let say the game server is close and you never got all the character you in the end. Or... There is a event and you never get the character you want. Or..... You never get to beat event mission before it end. Well you get the ideal.
By the end of the day. Person that playing the game choose what do they think is winning or losing in the end. Basically what they think is right or what they think is wrong from their point of view.
Well, then what about the profits gacha games generate?
Playing gacha games is just another form of self-punishment, except you join a community of people just like you to suffer together with... excluding the whales.
Me as the f2p traveler, shikikan and dumbface: ohh... interesting
I love the rolling aspect of Gacha games. Getting random and rare stuff through luck. It reminds me of opening up TCG booster packs in real life. BUT I really hate how much of a ripoff they are.
Very good points, I really hope this video will get more exposure, gacha players really need to understand what their money go to.
May I speak as someone a lot older than you? I am a 72 year old woman who has loved gaming since the days when you needed a pen and paper to play. Life has taught me some different meanings for the words ‘challenge’ and ‘success’ and the others you mentioned. Games are meant to be fun. If you think it is fun to try, fail, learn, and try again…you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I spent my life doing all of that stuff. I play games to chill. Gacha is predatory, no doubt about it. But the Souls series of games are out of my reach and inclination without ample doses of Cheat Engine. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Same, I play games to chill and have fun. That's why I don't like either Souls series or gacha games. Souls is try and fail over and over to beat a boss. Gacha is gamble with summoning tickets over and over to get a character I want
That's your game
People have different definitions of games
@@satoriakihiro1283 no argument there. It works as long as the publishers of super-hard games understand that they are telling people like me not to buy. Doesn’t bother me. I play something else. It’s an….interesting market strategy but…whatever.
@@mjdibella i mean its called focused segmentation marketing its nothing new or unique its just people like you probably end up seeing elden ring cause is a big hit and think it was marketed to you but like genshin impact they probably never meant or thought their game would go out of their market segment but word of mouth is more OP then ever with Twitter and shit
@@satoriakihiro1283 oh, I am quite sure that nobody markets video games at elderly women. But there is a market of people who need extra help to play. Accessibility is a ‘thing’.
So there's not a single gacha game with pvp?
Somebody show this man epic 7 and grand cross
Add Nikke too.More so since your placement,If you get a good.Means getting free 10 pulls with the gems they give you.
Most gacha games have PVP.
But i do agree that infinite resources make the game worse, not better.
I am what you called F2P veteran in gacha game. For me, a good game is the one where gacha is optional.
My man
Im f2p but i wouldnt buy units for the "pay to win faster".Other units are just cooler or more intresting then the free and easier to obtain ones...
This. People don't pull to win, they pull to play a character that isn't dirt boring forever. Imagine playing a gacha with the starting characters from start to finish. That would be the most boring, dull and tedious experience ever. If you're playing a live-service (yes, a gacha is a live-service), then you expect the gameplay to change or improve as you go on. Also some people want to pull for characters that fit thematically for the story, so that's another incentive. Some others are trend-chasers and pull for characters for the same reason you'd buy a certain piece of clothing, to impress or relate to your friends or acquaintances.
This video has a point, but the point it makes is in itself mostly pointless.
Casual gamer in 1990s: Super Mario Bros.
Casual gamer in 2023: Any idiot with a phone
Those idiot keep gacha system alive should be gone
As someone who played a lot of FGO, it's absolutely not pay to win, but it is pay to have fun. What's not mentioned here is the obscene amount of daily grinding needed to raise lower rarity units up strong enough to compete in a fun way, and how completely riduculously repeitive that grind it. You can cut that time down by 1/20th by having a certain mixture of limited SSR units though, to the point where you can set up an autoclicker and have it just grind the game for you.
No one likes grinding in the game, it's not fun at all, but it's necessary in order to have fun, and having limited SSRs makes it take fractions upon fractions of your real life time, down to almost none at all. Not to mention getting those SSRs might not change your odds of winning, but they all have story content locked behind them, gameplay mechanics locked behind them, and not to mention just the act of your favorite character only being available on a 0.8% chance for 2 weeks every two years is absolute horse shit.
If you aren't paying, your suffering is the reason that whales *are* paying in order to actually have fun with these games. If you have to spend hours every day doing content you don't want to do, you are effectively whaling. Cross that time with working a real life job and the money you'd be making is how much you're spending in order to "play for free" every hour you spend doing something you don't explicitly want to do in game.
I help myself by not playing gacha games and back to console/PC games.
If it has PVP and gotcha components. It is pay to win. Plain and simple. This kind of gotcha game is the worst.
I mean i got the buster system servants in like 300 quartz so I’m good
Lmao most of the f2p that I know (including myself although I only pay in the last paid banner) have several meta servants and can farm without any problem, I have oberon and koyanskaya with artoria, Napoleon, maoh nobu, and several other Buster servants, so technically farming is no longer a problem for me haha
Honesty, the only mobile game I have actually spent time into and didn't drop after a week or so is a gacha game. Currently waiting for it's 4th anniversary
honkai?
Honkai impact 3rd?
Db legends? Even tho the 4rd anniversary was a complete ass lol
Honkai is on its 6th anniversary
i believe paying would result in poorer pull rates. note that statistics gives A LOT of room for games to manipulate. pay at your own discretion :)
Never spent a single cent on genshin and I can 36 star the abyss
It's funny when I look up a game with fake ads, only to find out people actually have fanbases dedicated to them, which makes me pity them.
Raid Shadow Legends, Hero Wars and Warthunder come to mind.
As for the popular (non anime spinoff) gachas like Azur Lane Blue Archive Girls Frontline Genshin Impact Granblue Fantasy Fate Grand Order Arknights Nikke- KWAAAH I BIT MY TONGUE! They have large fanbases and unique gameplay elements that raise them above the competittytion.
For example, Arknights is a tower defense while Azur Lane is a side scrolling shootemup. The effort put into standing out is comendable when it's made.
In particular, Genshin Impact feels less like a shitty mobile game and more like an open world action rpg with gacha elements to encourage supporting it. Like a TH-cam channel with a Patreon on the side.
No amount of Limited 5 Star Servants in FGO will ever give me the same satisfaction as rolling one day and getting some generic 4-star Berserker with a pretty bland-looking 1st ascension, then later encountering her in the Agartha story and sympathizing with her backstory, how she feels disrespected because people only see her as "omg hot waifu" and not as a warrior, feeling guilt at her bond 5 lines and immediately grailing her to Lv 100, raising all skill levels to 10, and then taking her into the Aeaean Spring Breeze challenge Quest and, after burning up all 3 command spells plus one more when the regeneration period rolls over, have her beat the *ever-loving shit* out of Odysseus as the last unit standing and with barely a sliver of health remaining. Beauty _Eclipsed_
Penthesilea i presume?
Something tells me you hate Achilles
Something tells me you would like Hektor.
Something tells me that you like Jeff Bezos
Something tells me you like that character
Nah, it's not Pay to Lose or even Pay to Win, It's P4W. Pay for Waifu.
Can i use this video when people b*tch about AC, DMC, or RE having microtransactions.
fact, I spent too much time on the computer and smartphone, it’s time to socialize) But looking at humanity, any kind of reliability is lost at all.
10/10 content brother
Bro didn't learn the word "Progression" at school
I confess I am too stupid to play arknights, simply because there are too many types of characters and I and VERY bad with making my own synergies, and I am too prideful to go online and look for a easy answer... But just because it's kinda of a puzzle game, I do this to most other gachas I play... And I sometimes wonder why my teams in granblue are bad.
Also if you pay to win in gacha games you miss the good gambling serotonin juices on your brain, that is spending your fake currency on a chance to hit the jackpot of your desired pngs, Live2Ds or 3D models, making you feel like you are trading NFTs, but the only market crash is personal fake currency and time, some gachas can consume a entire day, gamers, remember, play only 1 or a couple if you are a little daredevil, and take brakes PLEASE.
5:22 This is why I don't like Gacha payment system gamed and why I didn't try even one ever.
Sure they may not force you to "pay to win" but what they also do is waste your time on mindless gameplay.
I already played a game like that long ago, Plants Vs Zombies 2, and while it does have PvP, it's not whay made me stop(although it was close) what made me stop is Penny's Pursuit, a finally PvE content and it was just boring grind.
And while I'm definitely sure there are dozens if not hundreds of games that were worse than pvz2, this was still too bad for me, so I just... Uninstalled PvZ2 and never looked back. Heck I even had some rare plants that weren't bought with dollars but with gems(in game but rare currency) like Gold Bloom, PopCap apparently made Gold bloom super rare to find if never, and while it did made me reconsider leaving for a second I still left 😅
This video is still relevant.
The winning aspect in PvE comes from leaderboard. In 2012 People are familiar with rage bahamut, valkyrie crusade, blood brother, etc. They always have event with super rare card as reward from leaderboard. During this event they always release new card that deal 100-200% more damage to event's mob/boss. And guess what? the whale is always the leader.
If you are paying money, pay on a real game
FGO is a real game,
It’s a light novel with gambling built into it, isn’t that amazing!
@@EnReaper And the game is bad, so?
@@IncognitoActivado we are free to hold our own opinions. 👍
@@EnReaper So what?
@@IncognitoActivado exactly 😁 you get it
Genshin impact is so easy to beat. It is only 7000000000 hours
FGO players reading an entire book to beat the game, while reading magazines for events
I quit all of my gacha/live service games cold turkey style in August 2023, and it is the best thing I have done in the last 5 years. The mental clarity, the time in my day I got back, the increase in savings, etc. The first couple weeks I missed it out of habit, but after a month had gone by I realized how seriously messed up in the head I really was for thinking those games were good. I would suggest quitting to anyone, you will not regret it.
Genshin Impact is a casual game for casual gamers. By design. It sucks.
I'm a azur lane f2p and i can say its nice
Your humor is so good :( wish you kept making videos
And then there's me who is f2p on FGO but owns 36 SSR servants (I started in late 2019)
PS. I don't even regularly play FGO, I just open it whenever I'm in the mood to open it. I'm still stuck on LB3 and missed a lot of banners and events
Same. I started in 2020 exclusively F2P (barring GSSR, and even then within 2 years I wasted like $20, which I think isn't bad for how long I played it) and got 19 SSRs. While it's not that much, nearly all of them are quality ones (nearly all meta support except Tamamo, Spishtar, and several top-tier servants as well).
For me though, I do try to finish events, but most of the time it's near the event completion lol. That, and I'll at least get the login bonus, and sometimes will leave the game running to farm, automatically through FGA, while I play GT7.
My one gacha game doesn't require me to pay. Only possible f2p: GRIND AND FARM
I saw this through Tectone’s review, holy shit this was a good video in terms of humor and facts,can’t believe it was a year old
Gacha games nowadays can basically summed up into '7 billionth cute anime girls spinning game'
Lol. U defending child cassino lol
I just imagine tasty food i can buy and save for that and go buy that food and enjoy for 30min to few hrs and it's more worth then average dopamine i get from games , non games have game me more happiness then food , unless i stuck in some places where i can't buy those food then i would spend on game so it's weird
6:19
Do you want a Roguelike in your Roguelike game?
Star rail be like:
Except roguelikes don't time-gate you and don't need you to grind DAILY or spend money to unlock more game content. You boot it up, play as much as you want, get story and character progression and then shut the game down when you're satisfied. When will you boot it up again? Whenever you're in the mood.
@@paledrake
You... Don't?
Did you play AK? Just asking...
In AK, every months there's new content around one latest Roguelike theme, yeah there's time-gated operator clear but once the updates all rolled out, the time-gated operator clear will reappear, giving you chance to clear them. There's no money-gated stuff in AK's Roguelike, and as someone who just spend ~$5 dilla in a whole 4 years of playing, I don't see any P2P in AK Roguelike. I'm someone that loves grinding stages but that's just because I enjoying that. A bit of a slog but it's aight. I can skip days for touching grass here and there and still beat the boss ass ez, even if I'm feeling squeazy, 4 stars clear why not? Where does this "Except Roguelikes don't time-gate you and don't need you to grind DAILY or spend money to unlock more game content" coming from?
If you're referring to the Gacha aspects of AK, I... Dun...really...need to spend??? I mean sure I wish to get some characters either because of want or nessecity, but it's not time-gated. The only time-gated one are anniversaries and festival (Summer & Chinese New Year), and even that if you don't get what you want, they will come again in another anniversaries/festivals, or if you REALLY want to get them, then sure, 300 pulls for spark. If you really wanna talk about true time-gated, then it's collab event you after. Rainbow 6 Siege one will get a rerun months after this comment is up, with a new event regarding said collab beforehand. There's Monster Hunter, but that's a bit vague if they wanna rerun the event in the future. There's Destiny collab they cooking but there's no other news around that either. So yeah, you don't need an absolute meta pulls to beat AK's stages. Do with what you have, will be harder, but doesn't mean it's impossible.
@@tomatomaki I've tried AK in the past, didn't get far as I thought the gameplay was boring and the story presentation not impressive enough to justify gacha grinding.
Also it's not about "do you need to spend money to progress" it's about being able to enjoy the game like you want. Can you only enjoy the game if you get new character? That is how most people feel, they WANT new characters so they can enjoy them in their old game. They don't want to be stuck playing the same way with the same characters for years and because people have preferences for whatever reason they'll want specific characters that appeal to them. And people don't want to wait to enjoy something, they already have a limited amount of free-time or other things they want to do. No one wants to baby-sit or slave away at a gacha game because they need to grind to progress or need to grind for premium currency unless they want to spend obscene amounts of real money.
@@paledrake
The gameplay and story of AK isn't what everyone liked, and the first few chapters are a slog, there's some nack of writing, it ain't that good. But if you wanna catch up AK's story without playing the game, there's 2 season, 8 EPs. Each of AK anime, and upcoming 3rd season if you're interested, still there's some nacks but it's better.
For "Can you only enjoy the game if yiu get new character" bit, I can't speak for everyone that play AK because I know someone who wants newer character, but I also know someone who wants older, classic character.
Genshin it's cool and all but most of us can accept the fact that the rng sucks.
I agree tbh
You may be right, but i still won't play these games, so I wouldn't know. All i know is the annoying ads i see 24/7
And wondering who are these people making these games money?
As i play gatcha anime games like one piece gatcha games, i would say for mobile games u can pay to win in some games u buy pulls to get your fav hero or pirate or what ever u get best team 1 week later a new characters will be better and for 25% discount and it has arena and shit like that
I won't I could say the same thing as league of legends personally. I played for a long time I reached gm season 6 after spending a ton of money and I quit. The difference in gatcha games is that they are easy to play and the majority of the people are lazy and prefer "easy". I personally agree with you for most things except I would say genshin has one thing going for it and it is that it actually has gameplay unlike most other gatcha games. I don't really like playing it for the grindy aspect as much but for the beautiful music and overall landscape. At the end of the day it depends on the person I suppose.
i play gacha games sinse what? 2017
f2p gacha player
have to do daily grinding, overcome the odds of not having what i need in character to build my team, or dry my energy daily to grind materials to raise my characters. overcome the levels of the campaing or the event... and i'm still feling that i just did what i needed to be done. acomplishment my ass! gachas are not fun! this is truly bullshit! a fun game makes you feel happy by the time you play, not by the ammount of suffering you must endure to just "limit break" a character to send them to war, god damn it!these games are made to grind every day! granted, arknight are focus on skill (or not if you have surtr) even so, grinding sucks in every gacha games! the reason why the current players like these games are not that... these games are just distractions
Ahh yes LLSIF my first gacha game experience
spent nearly 30k on brave frontier over the years then the game shut down......
Jesus christ 💀
I play F2P (well, only one, FGO, since I'm actually familiar with the franchise) as a side game myself, refusing to spend money on there at all.
For example, when I wait for a lobby or after playing endurance races in GT7, I'll launch FGO, have a quick play, then close it back once the lobby is ready or I want to play GT7 again.