I’m so sick of people not using their radios and then on top of that they choose to use it after the fact to mock you. That deserves a report to the FAA
Both were using the radio; at 3:32 you can hear the Bonanza pilot report on a 45 to enter downwind. At 3:40 you can hear the Lancair pilot say that he heard the Bonanza pilot's announcement, so he knew there was another aircraft in the pattern behind him.
@@SierraBravo7970 I don't think you can say with certainty the Bonanza's pilot wasn't listening. Indeed, he responded immediately on the radio when accused of cutting off Mr. Wasserott. That's pretty good evidence to me that he was very much listening to his radio.
@@mwsletten true to your point. However nobody can really say anything with certainty concerning this it’s just my opinion. If your point is ( it could very well be) true then it makes all that much more worse. Intentional act of recklessness and endangering lives on purpose including his own.
@@SierraBravo7970 Exactly. This is why I responded to @johnp9020 in the first place. Saying he wasn't using his radio gives the Bonanza pilot an excuse for his behavior.
I would totally take this to the FAA. That guy is insane and a disgrace to aviation. The fact that he even makes fun of the situation (being completely and WILLINGLY wrong) just makes it even worse.
@@pauldavis5665 91.113 (g) ...When two or more aircraft are approaching an airport for the purpose of landing, the aircraft at the lower altitude has the right-of-way, but it shall not take advantage of this rule to cut in front of another which is on final approach to land or to overtake that aircraft.
@@pauldavis5665 hey bud, if you knew anything about the far/aim, you would know the rule SPECIFICALLY states that you should not take advantage of lowering your approach just so you can get right of way. The dude literally incurred a near miss because he didn’t feel like communicating his position on CTAF, and did not make an effort to create a safe flying environment. That deserves an FAA report.
He asked the Bonanza several times where he was, and no response, then cuts him off, and the instant mocking response indicates the Bonanza was listening the whole time and did this deliberatly - no exuses.
I saw this video yesterday and was shocked that anybody would intentionally cut someone off on a VERY short final and then have the attitude to be sarcastic and mock him right there, I was actually in shock
Dude was asked twice to report his position, and kept silent. He knew exactly what he was doing, didn’t want to get called out on it, and put himself and others in danger.
Nobody mocked anybody, he was talking to himself. There is no requirement to have a radio for those private fields either. They're dangerous for this reason. Had to avoid landing at such a field once with my instructor because there was someone floating around and no way to know what they were doing, so we left the area. Now if this guy had a radio and was avoiding him then yeah that is ridiculous.
@@boothbuster the person who said “oh buddy buddy buddy” was mocking the pilot of the lancair I believe. He called his base right in front of the pilot in the video then when asked to report his position, with tail number, if he turned in front or behind he gave no response after being asked twice.
91.113 (g) Landing. Aircraft, while on final approach to land or while landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to force an aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed and is attempting to make way for an aircraft on final approach. When two or more aircraft are approaching an airport for the purpose of landing, the aircraft at the lower altitude has the right-of-way, but it shall not take advantage of this rule to cut in front of another which is on final approach to land or to overtake that aircraft. With the tone and disrespect, definitely a deviation.
As you said it, he is on a 3 mile final which is clearly outside the pattern! That is on the Lancair pilot, and he did not have to extend his downwind that far or he needed to just slow down to adapt to the flow of traffic. The Bonanza pilot probably didn’t see the Lancair guy at all to even try to extend his downwind etc. However, that Bonanza pilot is flat out dangerous with both his cavalier attitude and complete unresponsiveness to the Lancair pilot’s questions in order to increase SA which ultimately would have prevented what happened. What should have happened is the Lancair and Bonanza pilot coordinate with one another to prevent all of this. But despite the Bonanza pilot being a complete unprofessional, they both contributed to this situation.
OP Munden can you submit this to the FAA in case the pilot in the video didn't? It's ultimately about safety, I don't think it should matter who brings it to their attention. Great analysis, thank you for sharing
This pilot is catching a lot of flack for a "non-standard long final" on his own channel. But he made all the necessary calls and the Bonanza pilot just butted into his flight path. He even inquires the Bonanza for his position and that pilot is either oblivious or just doesn't care.
my first solo I was in a 172 and a bonanza cut me off on the downwind from above me no radio calls until he turned base and I thought my instructor was going to kill the guy. I fly at an uncontrolled field in SOCAL that is very busy I am honestly surprised we don't have more incidents.
Get a sentry (or any other adsb in) immediately. As a CFI you basically cannot afford to give up the extra situational awareness it provides when you’re juggling the responsibilities of PIC and teaching your student in a busy and/or unpredictable environment. Sentry Plus saved my butt literally 2 days after I got it and I’d probably not be here if I waited any longer. Couldn’t ever imagine flying without it now.
Same here. Guys would fly across the field at pattern altitude without saying a word, cut people off in the pattern, and generally be a nuisance. "Of course it's a Bonanza" became the catch phrase.
@@spiller212 thats what I had in my comment originally but I didnt wanna offend any BMW'ers that may be here😂 They dont even broadcast on CTAF sometimes.
@@sassyassasin2712 they pass it and say screw it after probably. Some of the older guys at the non towered fields im around rip it on base to final in the pattern.
My instructor taught to go into slow flight with partial or full flaps if there is a line at the departure to make room without making a long extended downwind. Keeping it closer to the airport reduces the space to allow someone to cut you off and overall keeps the pattern tighter and consistent. Obviously it really messes someone up if they are right behind you so you have to be vigilant of that. Communication is key in a pattern like this but you're always going to have that one guy doing a straight in, cross runway landing, you know the guy that is just more important than you or has the more expensive pink line chaser.
Thanks for the validation that frequent and specific position radio calls and/or questions or inquiries to other aircraft on CTAF is totally appropriate "when appropriate".
We have a couple small fields around here where the NORDOs fly on the opposite side of the traffic pattern and low like they own the airspace. We also have Air Tractors to confuse things, you can't assume the NORDO is a Tractor just because they are flying low. The Tractors are good guys and professional for the record. The instructors hate taking students to these fields and frequently have to leave when things get iffy.Then we all end up at one of two remaining fields near by and the pattern gets too busy. I am still glad that I fly out of a towered field now.
I hate GA flying into non-towered airports for THIS reason. I've had SO many people not follow basic traffic rules. I've taken off and had someone fly opposite direction landing on the opposite runway. They didn't talk on the radio until after I did a low altitude avoid on takeoff.
Good breakdown of Chuck's video. I agree on filing a report with the FISDO. This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I find that there are a lot of self righteous and inconsiderate boomer pilots who have flown for years and accept normalized deviations like what we saw in the video because they've been flying for years and are used to getting their way all the time.
My dad and I flew a lot when I was a kid. One time at Laconia, KLCI, we were in left traffic for 26, at pattern altitude. Suddenly we saw traffic off our 3-4 o’clock with nearly no lateral separation and maybe 500 feet vertical separation, BELOW us. My dad got on the radio and ripped the guy a new one, and the traffic said something like “but we are already in the pattern”, to which my dad instantaneously replied “I DON’T CARE, GO AROUND!”
my dad aviated, navigated, and then communicated, in that order. Two sets of eyes to maintain visual separation. The total exchange was those 3 lines, which lasted 10 seconds maximum, not an “on air fight”. Frankly, you were not on board, and I was.
@@sam_mccrmck you continue doing what you want. Its for the others reading - to learn to adjust their attitude while in the air. Read the FAAs guidance on hazardous attitudes. It doesn't matter who is right or wrong or who cut off who - immediate actions need to be taken for the safe outcome of all the flights and that doesnt involve 10 seconds of radio chatter
Some humans have this bad habit both in the air and on the ground. I was extremely lucky that my entire career was in Army helicopters and small airplanes crop dusting and patrolling pipelines. Army regs and FARs kept us working as much out of the way of normal traffic as practicable. We avoided busy uncontrolled airports and tower at large airports worked us masterfully around their normal traffic. If we had to land at a busy uncontrolled airport, we gave way to all other traffic. The tactical situation is always fluid there and in the piston crop dusting days we had no radio. If slow, as in small trainers, avoid being in front.
This is a good example of expect the unexpected. The Lancair pilot extended his downwind to make time for ground traffic, but he's flying a relatively fast plane, so even a short extension will place him far from the runway. The Bonanza pilot either didn't know he entered the pattern behind another aircraft, or he didn't care. My guess is he thought he could turn base early and sneak in front of the Lancair, but he failed to take into account typical approach speeds for a Lancair IV, which is +90 KIAS. Either way, the Bonanza pilot clearly violated CFR 91.113 which prohibits cutting in front of landing traffic on final approach. My nits for the Lancair pilot: First, don't air your beefs on the radio. The Bonanza pilot already demonstrated his disdain for the rules; challenging him on the radio might feel like a good way to express anger, but it will only encourage further rule-breaking. Ultimately, everyone involved in an argument on the radio sounds wrong, no matter who is in the right. Second, with an aircraft below and ahead you should execute your go-around by first turning toward the upwind leg so as to keep the traffic ahead in sight. The idiot in front of you has already done one idiotic thing, so there's every reason to think he might do another...like climb up into you.
@mwsletten - totally agree with your comments. If you have flown into a busy fly-in on a sunny and warm Saturday morning, you have experienced something like this. Water off a duck's back. Don't let it bother you. I for one like to fly, so if something like this makes me do a go-around and another pattern, no problemo! If someone "cuts you off", just assume it's because they don't know what they are doing, or didn't know you are there, or just need to pee real bad - go around and fly a bit longer.
I don’t fly without ADS-B in. People like this are too much of a liability not to. And even if the FAA got involved in this case, he’d probably get a slap on the wrist or a temporary suspension at worst, but never fully removed from the air. Absolutely shameful we have people like this allowed to continue to fly and jeopardize the safety of everyone else.
I'm based at a busy uncontrolled airport. I'm fortunate in having a TAS on my plane - it has most likely saved my life from situations just like this. That said, TAS is imperfect and relies on other people turning their transponders on + not all planes have transponders. ADS-B in/out would be ideal if every plane had it (mine does not - yet).
So Chuck even mentioned in a pinned comment that he believes the Bonanza knew EXACTLY what he was doing and purposely ignored radio calls to avoid extending his base. This is of course just speculation, but it seems like a reasonable assumption to me.
The only thing I’d mention is that Chuck could have offset the runway during the go-around to maintain visual contact with the Bonanza on final, just in case it also decided to go around. Another option might have been to do a 360 on final for spacing, assuming no other traffic was in the pattern, though that’s not as safe as a go-around. I don’t think it was the Bonanza pilot who said “oh buddy buddy buddy”-the transmission sounded different-but I could be wrong. Flying is such a privilege, and it’s unfortunate how a few bad apples can take away so much of the joy.
Definitely offset to maintain visual, because the Bonanza might decide to go-around and then he's underneath you climbing into you. You should never do a 360 in the pattern at an uncontrolled field, you will be a target for the plane behind you in the traffic pattern that is continuing to fly the pattern. As VFR traffic at a towered field, you'll sometimes get asked to do a 360 for spacing, which is marginally safer since the controller is controlling the other planes, but still no guarantees and I would much rather extend the downwind or slow the plane down to accommodate traffic.
@geekmug 360s aren't ideal, but sometimes necessary when spacing is limited. For example, I was #3 on base when a 172 on base final decided to 360 due to separation issue with #1, since I had already turned left base, I decided it would be best to follow #2 in tbe 360. I announced my position and advised #4 in pattern to extend. Weird things happen all the time, but communication is key to stay safe in uncontrolled airports. Had the Bo listened and communicated position and intentions and coordinated with this pilot, this issue wouldn't have occurred. I've seen too many pilots lacking the willingness to communicate properly over radio that causes issues in the pattern.
It seems like there are too many pilots in general aviation that don’t take it seriously. I’m not a pilot, but I really worry for you guys when I see people this flippant about safety.
I don't care if the guy mocked afterwards just bacause of mocking, but the problem is that he didn't understand how serious the situation was and is probably going to do that again.
If only there was some technology that would let you see the location of other traffic. They could call it Aircraft Dummy Seeing Binoculars, or ADSB for short.
Wow I’m pissed for him! If Bonanza guy had apologized and seen the error of his ways even though he did a few things wrong, sure, a learning experience for him, but the fact he mocked Chuck and was completely unrepentent should piss us all off
The problem with this situation (or any similar situation of delay in landing) is that by extending downwind, you actually leave the traditional “traffic pattern”. At that point, it might be best to simply exit the pattern and maneuver away from it to begin a new sequence to reenter the pattern on a 45 degree entry.
Had a similar thing happen to me except their was also a guy just finishing his backtrack for dep. The guy on the ground was practically yelling at the other guy to go around with him saying in a Russian accent, “it ok sir, I no crash into you” 😂. He then overshoots and starts climbing into me. Some people just shouldn’t fly
Everyone flies at the same altitude in a traffic pattern at an uncontrolled airport. The take-off, landing, and taxiing sequences are all handed by the respective pilots operating there. Meaning it is up to following proper procedure and clear communication among everyone to avoid conflict. Chuck was first in line to land in the traffic pattern. He extended his downwind leg to give the people taxiing on the runway time to clear it. The Bonanza entered the pattern after Chuck. Making him second in line to land. Chuck clearly announced his base and turn to final approach while to Bonanza was still on his downwind leg. So far so good, but since Chuck flew an extended downwind, he would be on a much longer final than usual. The Bonanza decided they didn't want to wait and turned base before they were clear of each other. Now these 2 are on a potential collision course. When the Bonanza turned final, he is now turning in front of Chuck who is already on his final approach. In a GA airplane like this you can't see what's under your nose. So now you have 2 airplanes on the same path aiming to land on the same runway at the same time. Had Chuck not been so alert with his eyes and ears this could have easily become a NTSB investigation instead of a close call. A close call in aviation doesn't have to be inches away. This was extremely dangerous flying on behalf of the Bonanza pilot, and he demonstrates multiple reckless attitudes that are forbidden in the cockpit. Our CFI commentating is absolutely correct in saying this should've been reported to the FAA. That Bonanza pilot will kill himself, his passengers, other pilots, and maybe even people on the ground if he keeps flying with that kind of attitude.
Very likely a local Bonanza pilot who didn't like a bunch of transient Lancairs at the airpark. No room to that kind of attitude in aviation. The Sentry is 1000% worth the money. even if all you get is the little one.
I don't understand the Bonanza mentality at all. He cared enough to announce his position, but didn't care enough to listen and make any effort to build a mental picture of what was going on. I know it can be hard, but it's your life at stake, too. Does he think he's immortal? If so, why use radio in the first place? He can just shut it off (like many people do). At least shutting the radio off I can understand; it's dumb but I can understand it. This I cannot understand.
Many people go into an auto announce mode without actually truly listening to whats going on. But that is expected of student pilots - assuming the bonanza pilot is a bit more experienced than that. But its still possible I suppose if someone is distracted. The giveaway was his buddy buddy buddy comment. So he chose to listen only at certain points. Very strange!
The Lancair better make sure his radio even transmits, and people can hear him clearly before reporting it to the FAA. His radio sure sounded like it had some serious problems. "oh, buddy buddy buddy" probably came from the Lancair. FYI, if you're not getting any response on the radio when you're asking a specific question, you better ask other traffic in the area for a radio check. I never heard him do that.
Somebody’s a friend of John or a bonanza fan with hurt feelings 😂 he mentioned that the radio was crystal clear, it was the GoPro that had audio issues.
Not sure I'm on board with this. As you said "this guy did a huge downwind". Remember, this is an uncontrolled airport. This is a little different than a ATC calling an extended downwind and then calling a base and final, sequencing airplanes for landing. This pilot in fact got so far from the airport he could not see what was going on, on the ground, and had to rely indirectly from other pilots. Once he got 3 miles from the airport (and called a three mile final), was he even effectively in the pattern? Other pilots in the pattern would not even be able to see him at this point. He's totally relying on his radio calls being both heard and understood by ALL the other pilots at the airport. Not at all a safe assumption! Keep in mind that radios are not even REQUIRED at uncontrolled airports and the only safe option is to operate on the assumption that there is someone out there that is not radio enabled. We don't know from this video if the Bonanza pilot even ever knew that this guy was out there, or that it was the Bonanza made the "buddy" comment. Good video though. It shows what can happen. (Looking at the track above, I'm not sure that this guy was ever truly what I would consider "in the pattern"?) I know I'll get hammered for this comment.
@@CFIIMunden Thanks. I skipped ahead and it was better. The annoying audio got to more than anything. I'm thinking this guy is in the wrong though. The other pilot was in the traffic pattern as he should be. Why would a guy coming in on a long final have first crack over someone in a predicable pattern? Correct me where I'm wrong, but I've never assumed someone coming in outside of the prevailing traffic should have precedence. Thanks for sharing.
I’m so sick of people not using their radios and then on top of that they choose to use it after the fact to mock you. That deserves a report to the FAA
Both were using the radio; at 3:32 you can hear the Bonanza pilot report on a 45 to enter downwind. At 3:40 you can hear the Lancair pilot say that he heard the Bonanza pilot's announcement, so he knew there was another aircraft in the pattern behind him.
lol, yeah the Bonanza only used the transmission portion of his radio he forgot the listening side. Ya need to use both for it to be effective.
@@SierraBravo7970 I don't think you can say with certainty the Bonanza's pilot wasn't listening. Indeed, he responded immediately on the radio when accused of cutting off Mr. Wasserott. That's pretty good evidence to me that he was very much listening to his radio.
@@mwsletten true to your point. However nobody can really say anything with certainty concerning this it’s just my opinion. If your point is ( it could very well be) true then it makes all that much more worse. Intentional act of recklessness and endangering lives on purpose including his own.
@@SierraBravo7970 Exactly. This is why I responded to @johnp9020 in the first place. Saying he wasn't using his radio gives the Bonanza pilot an excuse for his behavior.
I would totally take this to the FAA. That guy is insane and a disgrace to aviation. The fact that he even makes fun of the situation (being completely and WILLINGLY wrong) just makes it even worse.
oh calm down buddy. bonanza got there first so he won the right to land first
@@pauldavis5665 If they were to collide no one would care "who was first". Aviation is all about safety. There is no place for ego in the sky.
@@pauldavis5665 91.113 (g) ...When two or more aircraft are approaching an airport for the purpose of landing, the aircraft at the lower altitude has the right-of-way, but it shall not take advantage of this rule to cut in front of another which is on final approach to land or to overtake that aircraft.
Even if he did, whats with the lack of comminication and mocking@@pauldavis5665
@@pauldavis5665 hey bud, if you knew anything about the far/aim, you would know the rule SPECIFICALLY states that you should not take advantage of lowering your approach just so you can get right of way. The dude literally incurred a near miss because he didn’t feel like communicating his position on CTAF, and did not make an effort to create a safe flying environment. That deserves an FAA report.
He asked the Bonanza several times where he was, and no response, then cuts him off, and the instant mocking response indicates the Bonanza was listening the whole time and did this deliberatly - no exuses.
I saw this video yesterday and was shocked that anybody would intentionally cut someone off on a VERY short final and then have the attitude to be sarcastic and mock him right there, I was actually in shock
Dude was asked twice to report his position, and kept silent. He knew exactly what he was doing, didn’t want to get called out on it, and put himself and others in danger.
People are inconsiderate
@@kaasmeester5903right , dude tryna cause trouble
Nobody mocked anybody, he was talking to himself. There is no requirement to have a radio for those private fields either. They're dangerous for this reason. Had to avoid landing at such a field once with my instructor because there was someone floating around and no way to know what they were doing, so we left the area. Now if this guy had a radio and was avoiding him then yeah that is ridiculous.
@@boothbuster the person who said “oh buddy buddy buddy” was mocking the pilot of the lancair I believe. He called his base right in front of the pilot in the video then when asked to report his position, with tail number, if he turned in front or behind he gave no response after being asked twice.
91.113
(g) Landing. Aircraft, while on final approach to land or while landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to force an aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed and is attempting to make way for an aircraft on final approach. When two or more aircraft are approaching an airport for the purpose of landing, the aircraft at the lower altitude has the right-of-way, but it shall not take advantage of this rule to cut in front of another which is on final approach to land or to overtake that aircraft.
With the tone and disrespect, definitely a deviation.
Thank you so much for posting this. The fact that people were on team bonzana is kind of disturbing.
As you said it, he is on a 3 mile final which is clearly outside the pattern! That is on the Lancair pilot, and he did not have to extend his downwind that far or he needed to just slow down to adapt to the flow of traffic. The Bonanza pilot probably didn’t see the Lancair guy at all to even try to extend his downwind etc. However, that Bonanza pilot is flat out dangerous with both his cavalier attitude and complete unresponsiveness to the Lancair pilot’s questions in order to increase SA which ultimately would have prevented what happened. What should have happened is the Lancair and Bonanza pilot coordinate with one another to prevent all of this. But despite the Bonanza pilot being a complete unprofessional, they both contributed to this situation.
OP Munden can you submit this to the FAA in case the pilot in the video didn't? It's ultimately about safety, I don't think it should matter who brings it to their attention. Great analysis, thank you for sharing
This pilot is catching a lot of flack for a "non-standard long final" on his own channel. But he made all the necessary calls and the Bonanza pilot just butted into his flight path. He even inquires the Bonanza for his position and that pilot is either oblivious or just doesn't care.
Whoever was operating that Bonanza surely shouldn't be qualified to act as pilot in command.
my first solo I was in a 172 and a bonanza cut me off on the downwind from above me no radio calls until he turned base and I thought my instructor was going to kill the guy. I fly at an uncontrolled field in SOCAL that is very busy I am honestly surprised we don't have more incidents.
Get a sentry (or any other adsb in) immediately. As a CFI you basically cannot afford to give up the extra situational awareness it provides when you’re juggling the responsibilities of PIC and teaching your student in a busy and/or unpredictable environment. Sentry Plus saved my butt literally 2 days after I got it and I’d probably not be here if I waited any longer. Couldn’t ever imagine flying without it now.
From my experience. the Bonanza and Mooney guys often do the most wild stuff ive seen in non towered airports.
Same here. Guys would fly across the field at pattern altitude without saying a word, cut people off in the pattern, and generally be a nuisance. "Of course it's a Bonanza" became the catch phrase.
The BMW drivers of general aviation.
@@spiller212 thats what I had in my comment originally but I didnt wanna offend any BMW'ers that may be here😂 They dont even broadcast on CTAF sometimes.
It makes you wonder how they even passed a checkride.
@@sassyassasin2712 they pass it and say screw it after probably. Some of the older guys at the non towered fields im around rip it on base to final in the pattern.
My instructor taught to go into slow flight with partial or full flaps if there is a line at the departure to make room without making a long extended downwind. Keeping it closer to the airport reduces the space to allow someone to cut you off and overall keeps the pattern tighter and consistent. Obviously it really messes someone up if they are right behind you so you have to be vigilant of that. Communication is key in a pattern like this but you're always going to have that one guy doing a straight in, cross runway landing, you know the guy that is just more important than you or has the more expensive pink line chaser.
Thanks for the validation that frequent and specific position radio calls and/or questions or inquiries to other aircraft on CTAF is totally appropriate "when appropriate".
We have a couple small fields around here where the NORDOs fly on the opposite side of the traffic pattern and low like they own the airspace. We also have Air Tractors to confuse things, you can't assume the NORDO is a Tractor just because they are flying low. The Tractors are good guys and professional for the record. The instructors hate taking students to these fields and frequently have to leave when things get iffy.Then we all end up at one of two remaining fields near by and the pattern gets too busy. I am still glad that I fly out of a towered field now.
I hate GA flying into non-towered airports for THIS reason. I've had SO many people not follow basic traffic rules. I've taken off and had someone fly opposite direction landing on the opposite runway. They didn't talk on the radio until after I did a low altitude avoid on takeoff.
always be ready for the go around! 🙏 great video breakdown. thanks for sharing🎉
Bonanza needs to talk to the FAA. Dangerous, irresponsible, and violated the regs.
Good breakdown of Chuck's video. I agree on filing a report with the FISDO. This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I find that there are a lot of self righteous and inconsiderate boomer pilots who have flown for years and accept normalized deviations like what we saw in the video because they've been flying for years and are used to getting their way all the time.
My dad and I flew a lot when I was a kid. One time at Laconia, KLCI, we were in left traffic for 26, at pattern altitude. Suddenly we saw traffic off our 3-4 o’clock with nearly no lateral separation and maybe 500 feet vertical separation, BELOW us. My dad got on the radio and ripped the guy a new one, and the traffic said something like “but we are already in the pattern”, to which my dad instantaneously replied “I DON’T CARE, GO AROUND!”
wrong attitude - save your butt first before getting into an on-air radio fight
my dad aviated, navigated, and then communicated, in that order. Two sets of eyes to maintain visual separation. The total exchange was those 3 lines, which lasted 10 seconds maximum, not an “on air fight”. Frankly, you were not on board, and I was.
@@sam_mccrmck you continue doing what you want. Its for the others reading - to learn to adjust their attitude while in the air. Read the FAAs guidance on hazardous attitudes. It doesn't matter who is right or wrong or who cut off who - immediate actions need to be taken for the safe outcome of all the flights and that doesnt involve 10 seconds of radio chatter
Some humans have this bad habit both in the air and on the ground. I was extremely lucky that my entire career was in Army helicopters and small airplanes crop dusting and patrolling pipelines. Army regs and FARs kept us working as much out of the way of normal traffic as practicable. We avoided busy uncontrolled airports and tower at large airports worked us masterfully around their normal traffic. If we had to land at a busy uncontrolled airport, we gave way to all other traffic. The tactical situation is always fluid there and in the piston crop dusting days we had no radio. If slow, as in small trainers, avoid being in front.
This is a good example of expect the unexpected. The Lancair pilot extended his downwind to make time for ground traffic, but he's flying a relatively fast plane, so even a short extension will place him far from the runway. The Bonanza pilot either didn't know he entered the pattern behind another aircraft, or he didn't care. My guess is he thought he could turn base early and sneak in front of the Lancair, but he failed to take into account typical approach speeds for a Lancair IV, which is +90 KIAS. Either way, the Bonanza pilot clearly violated CFR 91.113 which prohibits cutting in front of landing traffic on final approach.
My nits for the Lancair pilot: First, don't air your beefs on the radio. The Bonanza pilot already demonstrated his disdain for the rules; challenging him on the radio might feel like a good way to express anger, but it will only encourage further rule-breaking. Ultimately, everyone involved in an argument on the radio sounds wrong, no matter who is in the right. Second, with an aircraft below and ahead you should execute your go-around by first turning toward the upwind leg so as to keep the traffic ahead in sight. The idiot in front of you has already done one idiotic thing, so there's every reason to think he might do another...like climb up into you.
@mwsletten - totally agree with your comments. If you have flown into a busy fly-in on a sunny and warm Saturday morning, you have experienced something like this. Water off a duck's back. Don't let it bother you. I for one like to fly, so if something like this makes me do a go-around and another pattern, no problemo! If someone "cuts you off", just assume it's because they don't know what they are doing, or didn't know you are there, or just need to pee real bad - go around and fly a bit longer.
Good breakdown of the video. Thanks! :)
I don’t fly without ADS-B in. People like this are too much of a liability not to. And even if the FAA got involved in this case, he’d probably get a slap on the wrist or a temporary suspension at worst, but never fully removed from the air. Absolutely shameful we have people like this allowed to continue to fly and jeopardize the safety of everyone else.
I'm very disappointed to see a fellow Bonanza pilot act like this. Especially in a V Tail. Thank you for making these videos.
Close calls at busy untowered airports... serious stuff. Happens too often
It really does.
Have that bozo investigated.
The panel looks very clean because there are no yokes in the way.
I'm based at a busy uncontrolled airport. I'm fortunate in having a TAS on my plane - it has most likely saved my life from situations just like this. That said, TAS is imperfect and relies on other people turning their transponders on + not all planes have transponders. ADS-B in/out would be ideal if every plane had it (mine does not - yet).
Bonanza pilot is a retired American A320 captain.
So Chuck even mentioned in a pinned comment that he believes the Bonanza knew EXACTLY what he was doing and purposely ignored radio calls to avoid extending his base. This is of course just speculation, but it seems like a reasonable assumption to me.
LTT’s vs MRR. An epic battle fought since the dawn of aviation
The only thing I’d mention is that Chuck could have offset the runway during the go-around to maintain visual contact with the Bonanza on final, just in case it also decided to go around. Another option might have been to do a 360 on final for spacing, assuming no other traffic was in the pattern, though that’s not as safe as a go-around. I don’t think it was the Bonanza pilot who said “oh buddy buddy buddy”-the transmission sounded different-but I could be wrong.
Flying is such a privilege, and it’s unfortunate how a few bad apples can take away so much of the joy.
Definitely offset to maintain visual, because the Bonanza might decide to go-around and then he's underneath you climbing into you. You should never do a 360 in the pattern at an uncontrolled field, you will be a target for the plane behind you in the traffic pattern that is continuing to fly the pattern. As VFR traffic at a towered field, you'll sometimes get asked to do a 360 for spacing, which is marginally safer since the controller is controlling the other planes, but still no guarantees and I would much rather extend the downwind or slow the plane down to accommodate traffic.
@geekmug 360s aren't ideal, but sometimes necessary when spacing is limited. For example, I was #3 on base when a 172 on base final decided to 360 due to separation issue with #1, since I had already turned left base, I decided it would be best to follow #2 in tbe 360. I announced my position and advised #4 in pattern to extend. Weird things happen all the time, but communication is key to stay safe in uncontrolled airports. Had the Bo listened and communicated position and intentions and coordinated with this pilot, this issue wouldn't have occurred. I've seen too many pilots lacking the willingness to communicate properly over radio that causes issues in the pattern.
It seems like there are too many pilots in general aviation that don’t take it seriously. I’m not a pilot, but I really worry for you guys when I see people this flippant about safety.
Bananza say hello to the FAA for me
Right lol
First lesson: assume nothing
I don't care if the guy mocked afterwards just bacause of mocking, but the problem is that he didn't understand how serious the situation was and is probably going to do that again.
Report that bonanza pilot, he has no place at the controls in the air.
If only there was some technology that would let you see the location of other traffic. They could call it Aircraft Dummy Seeing Binoculars, or ADSB for short.
I’m a student over at the Caldwell airport and it gets crazy
I hate flying out of Caldwell sometimes. It’s the hornets nest.
Definatley an air rage incident.
Haven’t gotten to attain my PPL yet but if there’s one thing I know, Bonanza pilots are the Altima drivers of the air.
Wow I’m pissed for him! If Bonanza guy had apologized and seen the error of his ways even though he did a few things wrong, sure, a learning experience for him, but the fact he mocked Chuck and was completely unrepentent should piss us all off
The problem with this situation (or any similar situation of delay in landing) is that by extending downwind, you actually leave the traditional “traffic pattern”. At that point, it might be best to simply exit the pattern and maneuver away from it to begin a new sequence to reenter the pattern on a 45 degree entry.
Oof… we may have had more than words
Had a similar thing happen to me except their was also a guy just finishing his backtrack for dep. The guy on the ground was practically yelling at the other guy to go around with him saying in a Russian accent, “it ok sir, I no crash into you” 😂. He then overshoots and starts climbing into me. Some people just shouldn’t fly
Why didn't he use his 46 and 2 meter?
3 mile final is no different from straight in landing.
I appreciate hearing your respect for the original poster.
This is bananza! Oh buddy!
yall shoulda showed up w the whole flight school pretending to be the guy who got cut off.
@@laykennungester5496 He was cut off. He was making space for traffic that was still on the runway.
I'm kinda new to aviation and I dont understand. Can somebody explain because I wasnt able to see any close calls.
Everyone flies at the same altitude in a traffic pattern at an uncontrolled airport. The take-off, landing, and taxiing sequences are all handed by the respective pilots operating there. Meaning it is up to following proper procedure and clear communication among everyone to avoid conflict. Chuck was first in line to land in the traffic pattern. He extended his downwind leg to give the people taxiing on the runway time to clear it. The Bonanza entered the pattern after Chuck. Making him second in line to land. Chuck clearly announced his base and turn to final approach while to Bonanza was still on his downwind leg. So far so good, but since Chuck flew an extended downwind, he would be on a much longer final than usual. The Bonanza decided they didn't want to wait and turned base before they were clear of each other. Now these 2 are on a potential collision course. When the Bonanza turned final, he is now turning in front of Chuck who is already on his final approach. In a GA airplane like this you can't see what's under your nose. So now you have 2 airplanes on the same path aiming to land on the same runway at the same time. Had Chuck not been so alert with his eyes and ears this could have easily become a NTSB investigation instead of a close call. A close call in aviation doesn't have to be inches away. This was extremely dangerous flying on behalf of the Bonanza pilot, and he demonstrates multiple reckless attitudes that are forbidden in the cockpit. Our CFI commentating is absolutely correct in saying this should've been reported to the FAA. That Bonanza pilot will kill himself, his passengers, other pilots, and maybe even people on the ground if he keeps flying with that kind of attitude.
You're a pilot of piston aircraft and don't know what Lancair is?
This was done deliberately. Why? I don't know. But it's obvious he did it on purpose. He is a danger to other pilots.
Stuff like this happens al the time at my home airport at KAAO.
mic sounds good.
Excellent commentary...thank you....new sub too..😊
Very likely a local Bonanza pilot who didn't like a bunch of transient Lancairs at the airpark. No room to that kind of attitude in aviation. The Sentry is 1000% worth the money. even if all you get is the little one.
we need a ego test for new cfis
What do you mean ?
He had right of way end of ? How is anyone disagreeing with you
@@smints I’m not sure. It’s in the FARAIM also.
If LA was a traffic pattern😂
😂
OF COURSE it was a V-tail.
Commenting for the algorithm!
Thank you as always Eric!
How about a tail number for us?
N186B
I would file a complaint with the FAA, that pilot shouldn't be flying if he's cutting people off and then acting like it's a big joke.
ai tool in any mid level editing can get rid of this krackle
are u based out of the treasure valley ?
I am yes.
watching a video that was posted 11 hours ago talking about a video that was posted 11 days ago
And I’m reading this comment 11 hours after it was posted
I am replying to this comment 11 days after it was posted.
I don't understand the Bonanza mentality at all. He cared enough to announce his position, but didn't care enough to listen and make any effort to build a mental picture of what was going on. I know it can be hard, but it's your life at stake, too. Does he think he's immortal? If so, why use radio in the first place? He can just shut it off (like many people do). At least shutting the radio off I can understand; it's dumb but I can understand it. This I cannot understand.
Many people go into an auto announce mode without actually truly listening to whats going on. But that is expected of student pilots - assuming the bonanza pilot is a bit more experienced than that. But its still possible I suppose if someone is distracted. The giveaway was his buddy buddy buddy comment. So he chose to listen only at certain points.
Very strange!
Great breakdown I do the same with all the calls, especially on a busy circuit like this.
6:30 I’m a flight sim pilot man’s this is intense lol
And great video bro
The Lancair better make sure his radio even transmits, and people can hear him clearly before reporting it to the FAA. His radio sure sounded like it had some serious problems. "oh, buddy buddy buddy" probably came from the Lancair. FYI, if you're not getting any response on the radio when you're asking a specific question, you better ask other traffic in the area for a radio check. I never heard him do that.
No, the buddy buddy was the other pilot mocking him, you could tell from the sound of the voice.
@@enzy6434 I appreciate you voicing your opinion but that's all it is.
Somebody’s a friend of John or a bonanza fan with hurt feelings 😂 he mentioned that the radio was crystal clear, it was the GoPro that had audio issues.
@@CoolStuff108 Just another opinion that doesn't mean anything.
Looks like we found our duchebag.......
TH-cam instructor cringes at flight instructor not having youtube in darkmode.
Haha I can't do Darkmode.
Darkmode sucks.
Imagine thinking your preference is the only right way to do something, nothing is wrong with light mode asshole
Not sure I'm on board with this. As you said "this guy did a huge downwind". Remember, this is an uncontrolled airport. This is a little different than a ATC calling an extended downwind and then calling a base and final, sequencing airplanes for landing. This pilot in fact got so far from the airport he could not see what was going on, on the ground, and had to rely indirectly from other pilots. Once he got 3 miles from the airport (and called a three mile final), was he even effectively in the pattern? Other pilots in the pattern would not even be able to see him at this point. He's totally relying on his radio calls being both heard and understood by ALL the other pilots at the airport. Not at all a safe assumption! Keep in mind that radios are not even REQUIRED at uncontrolled airports and the only safe option is to operate on the assumption that there is someone out there that is not radio enabled. We don't know from this video if the Bonanza pilot even ever knew that this guy was out there, or that it was the Bonanza made the "buddy" comment. Good video though. It shows what can happen. (Looking at the track above, I'm not sure that this guy was ever truly what I would consider "in the pattern"?) I know I'll get hammered for this comment.
I'm sure after he landed they met at Hangar 15 xd
Definitely report this to the FAA
If this guy is a flight instructor how is it that he can't pronounce Lancair correctly. He pronounced it as Lancer. Very strange.
Haha thank you.
Sorry, this is WAY too long with nothing happening
I thought it was interesting.
@@CFIIMunden Thanks. I skipped ahead and it was better. The annoying audio got to more than anything. I'm thinking this guy is in the wrong though. The other pilot was in the traffic pattern as he should be. Why would a guy coming in on a long final have first crack over someone in a predicable pattern? Correct me where I'm wrong, but I've never assumed someone coming in outside of the prevailing traffic should have precedence. Thanks for sharing.
@ because he was the right away and he was making space for traffic. The guy who cut him off didn’t even do radio calls. It was pretty bad.
@@CFIIMunden Thanks, I looked that up, too. Clearly the communication needs to take place at an un-controlled airport.
What a joke. Totally on the lancair for flying away 3+ miles.
I don’t think so. He was waiting for traffic on the runway to clear. He did the right thing and he had the right away.