Never got that until you said it, but Jesus knew at the moment of the kiss and Logan’s side eye ( plus his smirk watching the press conference) now make me think he knew Kendall wouldn’t fall on the sword willingly
He realizes that, much like the cruise ladies and the waiter boy, Logan sees him as an insignificant casuality, "cost of doing business", etc.. Ultimately, a lesser person
I honestly don’t think it was that, the bigger lesson is you have to be a killer, you have to beat the man to be the man, that was the lesson Logan gave his son, Kendall just took his fathers advice.
@@lukashood25 this makes sense too but in this specific context/situation I think "No real person involved" was really the straw that broke the camel's back. He was so depressed and suicidal and guilty about the boy's death and his fucked up state throughout the entire season, event spent the effort to visit his family.... so obviously when he hears Logan casually dismiss people's lives like dirt under fingernails something in him broke.
"what could you possibly kill that you love so much it would make the sun rise again. she said that. i miss her" my favorite line in this show it's an absolute killer line
@@tasmimarahman3533 it's an absolutely beautiful line all on it's own like from an epic poem or shakespeare, but within the show it's an important moment between logan and kendall where logan wants kendall to be the martyr for his company
Jeremy Strong said in a later interview that the key moment that causes Kendall to betray his father after this meeting wasn't actually Logan's telling him that he's not a killer (which I thought was the trigger), but rather is when Logan says of the dead boy Kendall killed, "NRPI" ("No real person involved"). I thought that was very interesting.
Because deep down he still feels responsible and guilty for what happened at the crash, and he feels remorse, so when Logan says that the kid was NRPI, Kendall finally realizes that his dad never saw him as an equal, and that by “killing” him (sending him out as the sole responsible person for the cruises) he holds him in the same regard as the kid. Part guilt, part hurt pride/ego.
Funnily, I think that was the same way Tyrion Lannister killed his father. He had a millions reason to want him dead, but what made him shoot the arrow was Tywin dismissing Shae as “a dead whore” that no one would care about.
I always got the same vibe, though I think the killer stuff factors into it as well. Like another commenter said: part guilt, part ego, as many things with Kendall are.
So much to note in a single scene. All this charade for a "blood sacrifice" he had planned all along. Always working everyone, even his own flesh and blood. Kendall feeling the need to comfort his dad in the moment. Logan says "They won't accept me" even though he was the one they suggested first. Ultimately the NRPI comment, showing that on some level Logan and Kendall are on completely different pages.
This has to be one of the best scenes in Succession thus far. So powerful. Reading everyone’s different takes/opinions on meanings behind the words and actions used is fascinating
the way i choose to interpret this scene is that kendall realized that this brutal punishment he has endured all season IS NOT his penance for what happened to the boy, but instead simply a result of his father's everlasting resentment
One of the interesting things about Succession is everyone always has to have an out. Even the plain cold truth of "You're not a killer. You have to be a killer" just HAS to have this half-hearted "idk maybe not these days". It's all maneuvering, it's all politics, it's all keeping options open, even when it's about just... talking to your child. Wealth and power, man. What an insane world to be in.
Yeah, Logan may be genuinely broken up about giving up Kendall, but right off the bat it’s clear he’s still bullshitting. Logan gets everyone to do whatever he wants. If he truly wanted it to be him, he’d make them accept that.
It's the pause before he says "You're not a killer" - it says so much, as does Logan's expression. It's a great moment of reflection about his son and the mix of pity and disappointment in his face tells Kendall what he thinks of him, what's he's always thought of him. And Logan is 100% right, he isn't a killer.
Wow. As someone else put it, Logan screwed it up by citing "NRPI." I just realized, by someone like Logan citing that messed up acronym, that caused Kendall to turn on him. Because he realized Logan was complicit all along, a man like Logan would coin his own terms.
Framing this as Logan knowing what Kendall might do, there is an extremely interesting double entendra. When Logan first refers to "the sun", I interpreted in my first watch as Logan making a direct reference to what Marcia was saying. But if Logan knew all along that Kendall would betray him, he could instead be saying "the son", implying not a sacrifice of Kendall, but a sacrifice of himself to make Kendall a threatening business man in the eyes of others. "What could you possibly sacrifice to make the son rise again?"
100% agree. Nobody understood this scene. Logan isn’t talking about a sacrifice, he’s talking about a suicide. He needs kendal to become the “killer” the company needs at its top job.
I think this is a wrong read and an overestimation of Logan's capabilities. Logan didn't smile at the end of S2 cause Kendall betraying him went all according to plan. He did so cause for the first time in his life Kendall surprised him and he had to respect his move. He was just playing his kid in this scene like he does all throughout the show. He was willing to let his son rot in jail to survive, this wasn't the double mind move people tend to assume about Logan. He's just a ruthless survivor using his kids like he uses everything else in his life. An advantage.
@@rodrigopacheco12 If he wasn't intending on having Kendall betray him the way that he does, then how come throughout the entirity of the episode, it seems as if Logan is trying to antagonize Kendall every step of the way? He forces him to kick his girlfriend off the boat, humiliates him by making him talk to Stewy, and then finally tells him he plans on sacrificing him. Even the weakest individuals would become fed up with the constant torture Logan is pushing upon Kendall. I'm not saying Logan is a good person by doing this, but this was clearly his intention, seeing as how it helped prevent anyone from facing any actual consequences in the long run.
This still holds after the finale. Kendal had everything for the top job but he had this soft spot for his family, only if he could have not relied on roman and shiv and focused his attention on other board members he would have been able to stop the takeover. Guess the lesson this show really highlights is that the people close to you are the only ones who let you down.
Thank you fuckin MASTER SPOILER ... I'm intentionally watching season 2 Vids only Cuz I just finished s2 yesterday No biggie tho.. almost every show I've binged on a streaming service has had major spoilers served up to me just by me merely googling or youtubing the show mid binge
@@WelcomeToThe92503 Apologies. But usually people comment on these videos only if they've been watching to this point. If I'm binge watching a show, I never go to TH-cam until I'm done.
This was Logan's only real mistake he ever made in the show. If he threw Tom to the wolves like he should have he wouldn't have lost his kids like he did.
Really interesting to see the line "you have to be a killer" now through the lens of Logan having always believed that he had killed his sister by bringing home polio. I wonder how he has re-framed that in his mind into a positive of sorts.
This scene is amazing to me because those last words... it has never occurred to Logan that someone could be anything other than self-centered so of course he immediately jumps to reassure Kendall he's guiltless by dismissing the whole thing instead of acknowledging that Kendall was responsible for another human being's death
I think it's so fascinating, especially in the context of Rose, which we find out at his funeral. Logan is guilty too, so his urgency here is probably because he sees the same guilt he has for Rose in Ken rn 🤔
It’s not that Logan doesn’t understand that people can be self-centered, I think it’s quite the opposite. I think Logan understands how much more cruel he can be than other people. I think he fully understands that the way he can lie to a person’s face is a unique skill that really only he has. In my opinion, at that moment he’s desperate to have an accomplice. He is as desperate to have someone else with buried guilt as Kendal is to have his own guilt absolved. Kendal has his balls but he’ll never be as big of an asshole. They both admire and hate each other for the guilt they’re each respectively willing to endure.
*SPOILERS FOR SEASON 3 BELOW* "You're smart, you're good, but...I just don't know. You're not a killer. You have to be a killer." This might be the clearest admission we've seen of _how_ Logan cares for Kendall, which is a super weird thing to say given that he's basically forcing his son to take the blame for something he wasn't responsible for. When he's saying that Ken's not a killer, he's basically saying he's too sensitive, and maybe that's why Logan's scared to bring him into a world of wolves. He's "smart" and he's "good," but to lead a successful corporation, you need to have a viciousness that Ken doesn't really have, and I think there's part of Logan that almost wants to protect him from that world because of that. When Kendall wants to walk away at the end of S3 - cash out and be done with the company completely - Logan tells him, "Maybe I want you close. You can do the mail; keep you rattling around." Or when Ken randomly calls Rome during the family therapy episode, Logan becomes instantly alert that Ken's in trouble and tells Roman to go get him immediately. Or during the Boar on the Floor episode, when Logan protectively shields Ken by wrapping his arms around him. Or when Logan had glass panels installed on the roof once he found out Ken would go wandering up there alone. Or during the active shooter episode when Logan was clearly worried about Ken's whereabouts because he wasn't in the safe room with the rest of them. Or when he tells him at the end of S2 that he doesn't want him near Naomi because he doesn't want to find him dead one day because of his substance abuse issues. Logan makes a comment in the shareholder meeting episode (S3) about no else being able to yell/be mean to Frank - only he can do that. Knowing that Frank is Ken's godfather, I wonder if that's how he feels about Ken as well. He knows his son's faults and weaknesses, and he knows how cruel the world is and doesn't want Ken to suffer at the hands of others. Only he can shit on him, but everyone else is NRPI when it comes to this son; he'll do whatever he can to protect him. It's like in the intervention scene in S3, when the four siblings are at the table after Ken's suicide attempt, Connor tells him: "You need to stop trying to kill pop." So that makes me think Logan hearing about Ken's attempt must have really, really worried him to the point he was broken. And given that Logan wasn't even at the villa when it happened, it would have been someone calling either him or one of his aides to tell them that Ken' had been rushed to the hospital after trying to drown himself. Logan tries his best to keep him close and will do whatever he can to protect him from the world. It's like in the family therapy episode when he planted those stories about Ken to basically drag him to NM to be with the rest of them - he wants to keep Ken close to him where he can keep an eye. He's the kid he can't let go of, no matter how much they fight and disagree. (We don't know anything about Rose, but she's a very sensitive topic for Logan, so part of me wonders if Ken reminds him of her. Maybe she was sick and was ridiculed for it back when they were growing up? Maybe she had autism (like Iverson?) but people referred to her as r******* so that made Logan especially protective of her? And because Ken reminds him of Rose (?), he's even more protective of him?). When I first watched this scene, I thought Marcia's quote was about Kendall betraying Logan to make the sun rise again, but now I think it's about Logan sacrificing Kendall (not giving him the job, making him take the fall for cruises). He loves him so much, so that's why he has to sacrifice him, but only he can do it. It can't be Rome, Shiv, Congressman Eavess. It has to be Logan, because he's the only one who's allowed to hurt Kendall to protect him from the world. Ken saying he'll take the blame for cruises because of what happened at Shiv's wedding is met with Logan's vehemence that Kendall didn't do anything wrong - "You're the best. Don't beat yourself up; no real person involved." It's like he's yet again trying to protect Ken from himself and the world. It's what he told him at the end of S1: this accident can ruin your life, or, if you let me, it can mean nothing at all and I'll protect you from the world. And when Kendall goes in for the hug, he tells Logan, "I'm sorry," and Logan tells him, "no, no, no" - like it's nothing. Like he'd happily take the burden off Ken. It's such a contrast to Logan's reaction to Rome's dickpic fiasco; we deliberately don't see Logan's immediate reactions to Ken's scariest moments (the accident and the suicide attempt), but we see it with Roman. There's a reason for that. I think Ken really is Logan's Number 1; there's something about Kendall for Logan that just cracks his heart wide open. But he also scares the shit out of Logan because his struggles are really serious.
This scene is just so fucking amazing, simply one of the best I've ever seen across any media. It's no coincidence that perhaps the two best sequences of the show both involve Logan and Kendall alone together, the other of course being their dinner in Chiantishire. In my opinion at least.
Coming back to this after Kendall says in S4EP02 "I'm a killer" when he's looking back at what happened to that waiter... It took me back to this exact scene, how this word was used with different meanings in similar contexts.
If Kendall wants to win then he should kill his siblings not a corpse, they always betrayed him and conspired against him while he on the other hand always took their side like In Argestes and Dundee, it's only when Logan shut them off they go to him like in S3 finale, 4x04 proved that Roman and Shiv accept Kendall as their brother as long as he isn't a candidate for the big chair (even temporarily)
Looking at if from a season 4 lens you can see that Logan was scared of Kendall becoming a killer and being the one to replace him. He was so scared and jealous he needed to knock him down. And from the HBO official podcast Brian Cox said that Logan's character disliked his children for having so much emotional ties to Waystar-Royco. It was always about winning the best deal. That also meant fucking over his own family and kids because they're not him, his brother, or his dead sister. NRPI. He knew about the cruises and was about to send Kendall away so there would never be an alternative to take over from him. He'd rather see the company sold to Gojo then let someone take over.
What is mind boggling is how much Kendall care about what his dad can think of him. He is a grown man in his 40' and it seems like he doesn't have a mind of his own, my mama did number on me like that when I was younger and I learned to move on in my 20'
This scene has the tension and sheer darkness of manipulation on film personified lol it’s almost terrifying how Logan is so persuasive to a broken, and helpless man like Kendall is at that time. The acting in this scene is absolute top notch.
@@blakethompson no it was when he found out that the boy he killed in a crash, Logan appointed as no one, which was his chance to break free without him using the kids death as a trigger to get him to step down.
Despite whatever Strong says, I agree with Grant’s point. There’s no way Logan would have said that. It’s far too much of a stretch to state that out loud. There’s no way he’s going that far For anyone, for any thing. He can’t stoop there. So for that reason, amongst what strong was saying, was the straw.
Beautifully written and executed scene, one of many. I wasn't really a fan of some of the the series' Sorkin style hyper fast dialogues - usually involving the two other kids - where you just think nobody's that smart...
It’s interesting that Logan mentions Gibbon (famous historian of Ancient Rome) here, but when Mattson mentions Roman history in a later episode Logan brushes it off as though the topic is beneath him.
This becomes relatable in more ways than one when he asks about the top job. Didn't end up taking over family business even though I was more qualified and had more of a business acumen. May sound resentful but maybe there are some tangibles that I lacked and the other guy had (don't see it). No matter how Kendall ended up having a press conference scene I'm forging my own path ahead and the fallout caused one day will make me not being the successor the wrong choice.
I think you value the idea of being a killer and it being necessary and that’s why you cite that as an example. In your mind, you need to be a killer, so when someone presents a non killer who is equally as great or better, without that characteristic, you say, “well he doesn’t have the killer instinct, therefore he must not be as good.” LBJ is not a narcissist like MJ, but actually a great person. Yet by most measures is the better player. I hope I articulated my point well enough to understand.
Just noticed how Kendall kisses Logan on the cheek before going off to betray him. I’m thinking it’s gotta be a biblical allusion, although Logan is pretty much the farthest thing from a Jesus figure, but he is literally the father and the siblings (especially kendall) view him as a god throughout the series
This Logan and Kendall scene is so absolutely brilliant. Excellence. I was blown away. The background reminds me Godfather 2, the scene with Michael and Fredo “I’m ur older brother scene and I was stepped over scene.”
Logan really cares about his kids but doesn't want to leave the company until his kids are united as one. He's divided them growing up to make them stronger and each kid makes up Logan's personality. We've seen how the siblings have sided with Logan over Kendall and really Logan doesn't want this, he has managed on his own long before. He will put up a fight until the siblings come together and brutally defeat him. The tactics he's used are all tests on whether his kids will come together or not and dethrone the emperor. He knows empires fall from within and he's trying to prevent this before he goes.
Or it’s the exact opposite. Logan is jealous of his kids, as Kendall mentioned in the therapy episode. He is jealous for the way they’ve been brought up, which is in stark contrast to how he grew up. Logan’s only love is Waystar, and he can go to any extent to save it, even if it involves jeopardising the kids (which he did at the end of s3). Logan ‘fucking wins’ and that’s how the show might end. The kids might be ruined and divided, and the control of the company goes to someone worthy, maybe someone outside the family.
Jaime Lannister - "i never really cared about the people Kendall Roy- "which one. oh that i made it up" thats how i felt about the finale the sad thing is you could have made kendall instead of lying say something along the lines of "who cares about a waiter right now" to show how much he's become his father, but you would need way more time of Kendall being a ceo to get there. It didn't work for me as is
The GOT one was more bad writing, like the writers forgot what he did. The Kendall line was more of just being an unserious person not taking responsibility, purely part of his character.
@@JJpmfc except when he did take responsibility, and when he confessed and when he was almost willing to go to jail for it and when he turned on his father because of of Logan saying the boy was "no real person involved" I don't know why they just didn't make Kendall say "the boy? he was a waiter why does that matter now shiv". something along that line would've paid off the entire direction the show was going this season, a Kendall that became more like someone Logan wanted but a far worse person that doesn't care about "being better". Sorry but you can't convince me that Kendall's writing wasn't off in the finale
@@jcnom6606he was at the finish line and about to have his legs broken. It was a desperate move to save his chance at being CEO. It's completely in character for Kendall. Not even comparable to Jamie
I deserve it. Maybe I deserve it. Yeah for everything. It’s good to pay. For the Boy.
jeremy strong is fucking unreal
The Kiss of Judas was right there as subtle and masterfully done foreshadowing and I didn't even see it the first time
Never got that until you said it, but Jesus knew at the moment of the kiss and Logan’s side eye ( plus his smirk watching the press conference) now make me think he knew Kendall wouldn’t fall on the sword willingly
If Logan responded with anything else other than "No real person involved" I believe Kendall would have fell on his sword for his dad.
He realizes that, much like the cruise ladies and the waiter boy, Logan sees him as an insignificant casuality, "cost of doing business", etc.. Ultimately, a lesser person
100%
I honestly don’t think it was that, the bigger lesson is you have to be a killer, you have to beat the man to be the man, that was the lesson Logan gave his son, Kendall just took his fathers advice.
@@lukashood25 this makes sense too but in this specific context/situation I think "No real person involved" was really the straw that broke the camel's back. He was so depressed and suicidal and guilty about the boy's death and his fucked up state throughout the entire season, event spent the effort to visit his family.... so obviously when he hears Logan casually dismiss people's lives like dirt under fingernails something in him broke.
Apparently this wasn’t in the original script and Jeremy Strong got it added in, arguing the same point you’ve just made. Such a collaborative show.
The writing on this show is just out of control.
"what could you possibly kill that you love so much it would make the sun rise again. she said that. i miss her" my favorite line in this show it's an absolute killer line
Why’s it your favourite
@@tasmimarahman3533 it's an absolutely beautiful line all on it's own like from an epic poem or shakespeare, but within the show it's an important moment between logan and kendall where logan wants kendall to be the martyr for his company
@@melarose5308 Martyr? No. Scapegoat? Yes.
This is my favourite line of the whole show as well. A beautiful line but unfortunately used in a manipulative way by Logan on this occasion!
mine too
The fact logan can’t even hug his number 1 boy back is so sad
Jeremy Strong said in a later interview that the key moment that causes Kendall to betray his father after this meeting wasn't actually Logan's telling him that he's not a killer (which I thought was the trigger), but rather is when Logan says of the dead boy Kendall killed, "NRPI" ("No real person involved"). I thought that was very interesting.
Because deep down he still feels responsible and guilty for what happened at the crash, and he feels remorse, so when Logan says that the kid was NRPI, Kendall finally realizes that his dad never saw him as an equal, and that by “killing” him (sending him out as the sole responsible person for the cruises) he holds him in the same regard as the kid. Part guilt, part hurt pride/ego.
Because, as Logan says, he’s not a killer. He doesn’t get involved in someone’s death and shrug his shoulders.
What interview was that
Funnily, I think that was the same way Tyrion Lannister killed his father. He had a millions reason to want him dead, but what made him shoot the arrow was Tywin dismissing Shae as “a dead whore” that no one would care about.
I always got the same vibe, though I think the killer stuff factors into it as well. Like another commenter said: part guilt, part ego, as many things with Kendall are.
His initials are KLR. Killer
Bravo Vince
@@pheanelrondo gince villigan wtf??????
Two unbelievably talented actors
So much to note in a single scene. All this charade for a "blood sacrifice" he had planned all along. Always working everyone, even his own flesh and blood. Kendall feeling the need to comfort his dad in the moment. Logan says "They won't accept me" even though he was the one they suggested first. Ultimately the NRPI comment, showing that on some level Logan and Kendall are on completely different pages.
Damn Jeremy Strong fucking kills it in this show
He gave him the kiss of death.
This hits different when you realize the last scene of Kendall is him watching the sun set
Good catch! Brilliant writing
I dont get it
It was always Kendall.
This has to be one of the best scenes in Succession thus far. So powerful. Reading everyone’s different takes/opinions on meanings behind the words and actions used is fascinating
It was best scene of the show and best scene in television of 2020
the way i choose to interpret this scene is that kendall realized that this brutal punishment he has endured all season IS NOT his penance for what happened to the boy, but instead simply a result of his father's everlasting resentment
One of the interesting things about Succession is everyone always has to have an out.
Even the plain cold truth of "You're not a killer. You have to be a killer" just HAS to have this half-hearted "idk maybe not these days".
It's all maneuvering, it's all politics, it's all keeping options open, even when it's about just... talking to your child.
Wealth and power, man. What an insane world to be in.
2 seasons later, his number one boy became the killer he wanted.
😐
more like got bodied
IM THE ELDEST BOY
@@kar12894shiv sold the bag bro it wasn’t even his fault he just got a petty bitch as a sister
the faux apology of "they wont accept me". I love watching really great actors play character who try to act (like Barry), so interesting.
Yeah, Logan may be genuinely broken up about giving up Kendall, but right off the bat it’s clear he’s still bullshitting. Logan gets everyone to do whatever he wants. If he truly wanted it to be him, he’d make them accept that.
Love to tell my son metaphors about child sacrifice before asking him to do something bad
It's the pause before he says "You're not a killer" - it says so much, as does Logan's expression. It's a great moment of reflection about his son and the mix of pity and disappointment in his face tells Kendall what he thinks of him, what's he's always thought of him. And Logan is 100% right, he isn't a killer.
Wow. As someone else put it, Logan screwed it up by citing "NRPI." I just realized, by someone like Logan citing that messed up acronym, that caused Kendall to turn on him. Because he realized Logan was complicit all along, a man like Logan would coin his own terms.
Framing this as Logan knowing what Kendall might do, there is an extremely interesting double entendra. When Logan first refers to "the sun", I interpreted in my first watch as Logan making a direct reference to what Marcia was saying. But if Logan knew all along that Kendall would betray him, he could instead be saying "the son", implying not a sacrifice of Kendall, but a sacrifice of himself to make Kendall a threatening business man in the eyes of others. "What could you possibly sacrifice to make the son rise again?"
Woah!
Ooo, spicy take. I like it.
100% agree. Nobody understood this scene. Logan isn’t talking about a sacrifice, he’s talking about a suicide. He needs kendal to become the “killer” the company needs at its top job.
I think this is a wrong read and an overestimation of Logan's capabilities. Logan didn't smile at the end of S2 cause Kendall betraying him went all according to plan. He did so cause for the first time in his life Kendall surprised him and he had to respect his move. He was just playing his kid in this scene like he does all throughout the show. He was willing to let his son rot in jail to survive, this wasn't the double mind move people tend to assume about Logan. He's just a ruthless survivor using his kids like he uses everything else in his life. An advantage.
@@rodrigopacheco12 If he wasn't intending on having Kendall betray him the way that he does, then how come throughout the entirity of the episode, it seems as if Logan is trying to antagonize Kendall every step of the way? He forces him to kick his girlfriend off the boat, humiliates him by making him talk to Stewy, and then finally tells him he plans on sacrificing him. Even the weakest individuals would become fed up with the constant torture Logan is pushing upon Kendall. I'm not saying Logan is a good person by doing this, but this was clearly his intention, seeing as how it helped prevent anyone from facing any actual consequences in the long run.
3:34 "... But"
Kendall definitely gets Logan back for that when he calls him out at the press conference.
This still holds after the finale. Kendal had everything for the top job but he had this soft spot for his family, only if he could have not relied on roman and shiv and focused his attention on other board members he would have been able to stop the takeover. Guess the lesson this show really highlights is that the people close to you are the only ones who let you down.
Kendall took this to heart. After Logan's death, he now understands exactly the kind of man he has to be.
The killer lives on
Thank you fuckin MASTER SPOILER ... I'm intentionally watching season 2 Vids only Cuz I just finished s2 yesterday
No biggie tho.. almost every show I've binged on a streaming service has had major spoilers served up to me just by me merely googling or youtubing the show mid binge
@@WelcomeToThe92503 Apologies. But usually people comment on these videos only if they've been watching to this point. If I'm binge watching a show, I never go to TH-cam until I'm done.
Exactly what I thought. I like to think Logan said this on purpose so he can get proven wrong and Kendall becomes the killer he needed him to be
@@WelcomeToThe92503 haha nothing is set in place quite yet. You’re okay
This was Logan's only real mistake he ever made in the show.
If he threw Tom to the wolves like he should have he wouldn't have lost his kids like he did.
Really interesting to see the line "you have to be a killer" now through the lens of Logan having always believed that he had killed his sister by bringing home polio. I wonder how he has re-framed that in his mind into a positive of sorts.
one of my all time favorite lines
This scene is amazing to me because those last words... it has never occurred to Logan that someone could be anything other than self-centered so of course he immediately jumps to reassure Kendall he's guiltless by dismissing the whole thing instead of acknowledging that Kendall was responsible for another human being's death
was he really thooo?
I think it's so fascinating, especially in the context of Rose, which we find out at his funeral. Logan is guilty too, so his urgency here is probably because he sees the same guilt he has for Rose in Ken rn 🤔
It’s not that Logan doesn’t understand that people can be self-centered, I think it’s quite the opposite. I think Logan understands how much more cruel he can be than other people. I think he fully understands that the way he can lie to a person’s face is a unique skill that really only he has. In my opinion, at that moment he’s desperate to have an accomplice. He is as desperate to have someone else with buried guilt as Kendal is to have his own guilt absolved. Kendal has his balls but he’ll never be as big of an asshole. They both admire and hate each other for the guilt they’re each respectively willing to endure.
Thst look Logan gave after maneuvering them out was incredibly eerie. Freaky great actors. Winning and Deserving All of the accolades for Succession.
*SPOILERS FOR SEASON 3 BELOW*
"You're smart, you're good, but...I just don't know. You're not a killer. You have to be a killer."
This might be the clearest admission we've seen of _how_ Logan cares for Kendall, which is a super weird thing to say given that he's basically forcing his son to take the blame for something he wasn't responsible for. When he's saying that Ken's not a killer, he's basically saying he's too sensitive, and maybe that's why Logan's scared to bring him into a world of wolves. He's "smart" and he's "good," but to lead a successful corporation, you need to have a viciousness that Ken doesn't really have, and I think there's part of Logan that almost wants to protect him from that world because of that.
When Kendall wants to walk away at the end of S3 - cash out and be done with the company completely - Logan tells him, "Maybe I want you close. You can do the mail; keep you rattling around." Or when Ken randomly calls Rome during the family therapy episode, Logan becomes instantly alert that Ken's in trouble and tells Roman to go get him immediately. Or during the Boar on the Floor episode, when Logan protectively shields Ken by wrapping his arms around him. Or when Logan had glass panels installed on the roof once he found out Ken would go wandering up there alone. Or during the active shooter episode when Logan was clearly worried about Ken's whereabouts because he wasn't in the safe room with the rest of them. Or when he tells him at the end of S2 that he doesn't want him near Naomi because he doesn't want to find him dead one day because of his substance abuse issues.
Logan makes a comment in the shareholder meeting episode (S3) about no else being able to yell/be mean to Frank - only he can do that. Knowing that Frank is Ken's godfather, I wonder if that's how he feels about Ken as well. He knows his son's faults and weaknesses, and he knows how cruel the world is and doesn't want Ken to suffer at the hands of others. Only he can shit on him, but everyone else is NRPI when it comes to this son; he'll do whatever he can to protect him. It's like in the intervention scene in S3, when the four siblings are at the table after Ken's suicide attempt, Connor tells him: "You need to stop trying to kill pop." So that makes me think Logan hearing about Ken's attempt must have really, really worried him to the point he was broken. And given that Logan wasn't even at the villa when it happened, it would have been someone calling either him or one of his aides to tell them that Ken' had been rushed to the hospital after trying to drown himself. Logan tries his best to keep him close and will do whatever he can to protect him from the world. It's like in the family therapy episode when he planted those stories about Ken to basically drag him to NM to be with the rest of them - he wants to keep Ken close to him where he can keep an eye. He's the kid he can't let go of, no matter how much they fight and disagree.
(We don't know anything about Rose, but she's a very sensitive topic for Logan, so part of me wonders if Ken reminds him of her. Maybe she was sick and was ridiculed for it back when they were growing up? Maybe she had autism (like Iverson?) but people referred to her as r******* so that made Logan especially protective of her? And because Ken reminds him of Rose (?), he's even more protective of him?).
When I first watched this scene, I thought Marcia's quote was about Kendall betraying Logan to make the sun rise again, but now I think it's about Logan sacrificing Kendall (not giving him the job, making him take the fall for cruises). He loves him so much, so that's why he has to sacrifice him, but only he can do it. It can't be Rome, Shiv, Congressman Eavess. It has to be Logan, because he's the only one who's allowed to hurt Kendall to protect him from the world.
Ken saying he'll take the blame for cruises because of what happened at Shiv's wedding is met with Logan's vehemence that Kendall didn't do anything wrong - "You're the best. Don't beat yourself up; no real person involved." It's like he's yet again trying to protect Ken from himself and the world. It's what he told him at the end of S1: this accident can ruin your life, or, if you let me, it can mean nothing at all and I'll protect you from the world. And when Kendall goes in for the hug, he tells Logan, "I'm sorry," and Logan tells him, "no, no, no" - like it's nothing. Like he'd happily take the burden off Ken. It's such a contrast to Logan's reaction to Rome's dickpic fiasco; we deliberately don't see Logan's immediate reactions to Ken's scariest moments (the accident and the suicide attempt), but we see it with Roman. There's a reason for that. I think Ken really is Logan's Number 1; there's something about Kendall for Logan that just cracks his heart wide open. But he also scares the shit out of Logan because his struggles are really serious.
Beautiful post. Logan is such a complex character partly because he does genuinely love his children.
Ratio
Great
Thank you for this.
Damn
I just noticed the judas kiss....duh....this is all the archetypal story of the "Sacrifice" the "Sacrifice of the son" and it being a noble endeavor
This scene is just so fucking amazing, simply one of the best I've ever seen across any media.
It's no coincidence that perhaps the two best sequences of the show both involve Logan and Kendall alone together, the other of course being their dinner in Chiantishire. In my opinion at least.
Coming back to this after Kendall says in S4EP02 "I'm a killer" when he's looking back at what happened to that waiter... It took me back to this exact scene, how this word was used with different meanings in similar contexts.
so many allusions in this scene. Abraham (logan) offering his Isaac, judas (kendall) betraying Jesus with a kiss. brilliant writing
The irony in saying “you’re not a killer” when in fact Kendall was partially to blame for someone’s death
The acting in this scene is otherworldly
This is the actual climax of the show. Its when Kendall sees his father as irredeemable and goes off on his own permanently.
4:10 logn called the boy NRPI😭 mans a menace
Logan's response was one of the few mistakes he made in the show.
Logan: “you’re not a killer”
Kendall: “I’m not a killer?…bet”
If Kendall wants to win then he should kill his siblings not a corpse, they always betrayed him and conspired against him while he on the other hand always took their side like In Argestes and Dundee, it's only when Logan shut them off they go to him like in S3 finale, 4x04 proved that Roman and Shiv accept Kendall as their brother as long as he isn't a candidate for the big chair (even temporarily)
Naomi gave Kendall some light of realization in this last episode.
You are not a killer. You have to be a killer...
And then you lose the position you were destined to because you killed someone
The irony of Logan saying Kendall isn’t a killer…
Looking at if from a season 4 lens you can see that Logan was scared of Kendall becoming a killer and being the one to replace him. He was so scared and jealous he needed to knock him down. And from the HBO official podcast Brian Cox said that Logan's character disliked his children for having so much emotional ties to Waystar-Royco. It was always about winning the best deal. That also meant fucking over his own family and kids because they're not him, his brother, or his dead sister. NRPI. He knew about the cruises and was about to send Kendall away so there would never be an alternative to take over from him. He'd rather see the company sold to Gojo then let someone take over.
What is mind boggling is how much Kendall care about what his dad can think of him. He is a grown man in his 40' and it seems like he doesn't have a mind of his own, my mama did number on me like that when I was younger and I learned to move on in my 20'
NRPI: No real person involved. This is how billionaires and corporations see us all. What a brilliant show!
Someone commented if Logan said anything else Kendall would have gotten stabbed with Logan's sword. I think that is extremely accurate
Anyone here after season 4 episode 4 where Kendall starts to be a killer?
Yeah this scene immediately popped into my mind. He is truly becoming a killer.
S4Ep4, Kendall turns into a killer.
This scene has the tension and sheer darkness of manipulation on film personified lol it’s almost terrifying how Logan is so persuasive to a broken, and helpless man like Kendall is at that time. The acting in this scene is absolute top notch.
I just noticed... that Kendall's kiss is synonymous with the kiss of Judas hinting his betrayal.
"You got to be a killer, and you not a killer" POPS ON POINT DAM RIGHT !
And that's what caused Ken to turn. That right there!
@@blakethompson 👍
@@blakethompson no it was when he found out that the boy he killed in a crash, Logan appointed as no one, which was his chance to break free without him using the kids death as a trigger to get him to step down.
Now that we know the story of Rose from the funeral, maybe Logan was trying to spare Kendall from the guilt he felt himself
I legitimately think that if Logan had just told Kendall that he actually thought he would be a good CEO that Ken wouldn't have exposed him
Same, but another possible reason that motivated Kendall’s betrayal was when Logan said “ No Real Person Involved”
@@colemacgrath2005 Strong's interview with Rotten Tomatoes basically confirmed that
Is there anyway that people can grow up without the shadow of their parents' opinions?
It was the NRPI comment. All Logan had do was say it was accident and you did not mean to hurt that kid and Ken would have went though with the plan.
Despite whatever Strong says, I agree with Grant’s point. There’s no way Logan would have said that. It’s far too much of a stretch to state that out loud. There’s no way he’s going that far For anyone, for any thing. He can’t stoop there. So for that reason, amongst what strong was saying, was the straw.
I really miss this show.
Me too, kid.
Beautifully written and executed scene, one of many. I wasn't really a fan of some of the the series' Sorkin style hyper fast dialogues - usually involving the two other kids - where you just think nobody's that smart...
And he was right.
Probably my favorite Logan moment in the entire show
"No real person involved." - Logan
Kendall must have been PISSED.
I keep thinking about this scene. Kendall seems like a killer now.
Gave him the kiss of death
Brilliant scene
The kiss showed me he was gunna betray bc it was like Judas kiss to Jesus
4:42 The kiss of Judas, I love the reference lol
He will be the killer at the end of final season mark my words
It’s interesting that Logan mentions Gibbon (famous historian of Ancient Rome) here, but when Mattson mentions Roman history in a later episode Logan brushes it off as though the topic is beneath him.
Most important scene in the series
This becomes relatable in more ways than one when he asks about the top job. Didn't end up taking over family business even though I was more qualified and had more of a business acumen. May sound resentful but maybe there are some tangibles that I lacked and the other guy had (don't see it). No matter how Kendall ended up having a press conference scene I'm forging my own path ahead and the fallout caused one day will make me not being the successor the wrong choice.
3:20 - 3:33 These words are like Jazz - either you get it, or you don't.
3:27: when people ask why I think MJ is better than Lebron.
I think you value the idea of being a killer and it being necessary and that’s why you cite that as an example. In your mind, you need to be a killer, so when someone presents a non killer who is equally as great or better, without that characteristic, you say, “well he doesn’t have the killer instinct, therefore he must not be as good.”
LBJ is not a narcissist like MJ, but actually a great person. Yet by most measures is the better player.
I hope I articulated my point well enough to understand.
And he doesn't even think of his kids as real people so this conversation is worse than stabbing.
He says it at 3:50
Judas' kiss at the end from Kendall
Go Kendall
Y’all think Logan ever killed someone before?
makes me afraid he's gonna sacrifice his siblings rhis season... i want the sibs united til the end :(
Rewatch the scene with the kid and it really is the kids fault not Kendall’s (much as I hate to admit it)
Just noticed how Kendall kisses Logan on the cheek before going off to betray him. I’m thinking it’s gotta be a biblical allusion, although Logan is pretty much the farthest thing from a Jesus figure, but he is literally the father and the siblings (especially kendall) view him as a god throughout the series
He is the killer
This Logan and Kendall scene is so absolutely brilliant. Excellence. I was blown away.
The background reminds me
Godfather 2, the scene with Michael and Fredo “I’m ur older brother scene and I was stepped over scene.”
“You’re not a killer” aka “you’ze a bitch!”
NRPI..
MAN!!!😟 CHARACTERS LIKE KENDALL AND LOKI R JUST UGH😩😫
meybe he is
I think Kendall kissing Logan is a reference to Judas kissing Jesus before betraying him but that may be a stretch
looks pretty unlikely to me, because then he would kiss him from the lips
holy peak
Shakespearian
3:28
*3:27
Judas kiss
K to the L
L to the R
He's a killah
kendall is quite literally a killer
Shiv: you can't be a ceo because you killed someone
Logan really cares about his kids but doesn't want to leave the company until his kids are united as one. He's divided them growing up to make them stronger and each kid makes up Logan's personality. We've seen how the siblings have sided with Logan over Kendall and really Logan doesn't want this, he has managed on his own long before. He will put up a fight until the siblings come together and brutally defeat him. The tactics he's used are all tests on whether his kids will come together or not and dethrone the emperor. He knows empires fall from within and he's trying to prevent this before he goes.
Or it’s the exact opposite. Logan is jealous of his kids, as Kendall mentioned in the therapy episode. He is jealous for the way they’ve been brought up, which is in stark contrast to how he grew up. Logan’s only love is Waystar, and he can go to any extent to save it, even if it involves jeopardising the kids (which he did at the end of s3). Logan ‘fucking wins’ and that’s how the show might end. The kids might be ruined and divided, and the control of the company goes to someone worthy, maybe someone outside the family.
He doesn’t care about anyone, really. He’s clearly narcissistic.
Judas' kiss
KLR
Jaime Lannister - "i never really cared about the people
Kendall Roy- "which one. oh that i made it up"
thats how i felt about the finale
the sad thing is you could have made kendall instead of lying say something along the lines of "who cares about a waiter right now" to show how much he's become his father, but you would need way more time of Kendall being a ceo to get there. It didn't work for me as is
The GOT one was more bad writing, like the writers forgot what he did. The Kendall line was more of just being an unserious person not taking responsibility, purely part of his character.
@@JJpmfc except when he did take responsibility, and when he confessed and when he was almost willing to go to jail for it and when he turned on his father because of of Logan saying the boy was "no real person involved"
I don't know why they just didn't make Kendall say "the boy? he was a waiter why does that matter now shiv". something along that line would've paid off the entire direction the show was going this season, a Kendall that became more like someone Logan wanted but a far worse person that doesn't care about "being better".
Sorry but you can't convince me that Kendall's writing wasn't off in the finale
@@jcnom6606he was at the finish line and about to have his legs broken. It was a desperate move to save his chance at being CEO. It's completely in character for Kendall. Not even comparable to Jamie
yeah the finale is dogshit and complete character assassination
This is true for manhood
Família Roy🤓