Some critics took a massive dump on Venom, comparing it to Catwoman, Showgirls, and Batman and Robin. Hyperbole will often be met with hyperbole, and the internet magnifies it all out of proportion.
Anyone who compared Venom to one of those movies should never be taken seriously anymore. Whatever shortcomings the movie has its by no means a totally unredeemable movie with no good parts.
Whenever the critics and the general public don't agree the critics get more pretentious and the audience gets even more adamant about giving the critics the middle finger.
Audiences want an experience. Did I laugh, did I cry, was I awestruck? Very different than at what a critic looks. Most critics went to film school, so they look for a well made film. Continuity errors, terrible wigs, bad tonal balance, etc driver them batshit, especially in large budgeted movies where the director, producer, editor, and script supervisor should have fixed it.
@@deelzebub1213 very true. But those critics are sharing reviews to the general audience. I think critics are being too lazy nowadays. They only focus on the things you mention but they dont analyze it as a reg viewer. I think they are in the perfect position to bridge that gap and give a balanced review explaining both production and experience.
Question is, can one even objectively determine if a film was fun, if the reviewer has seen hundreds or thousands of movies and has a much higher threshold for appreciating the "worse" movies.
You can't dismiss the audiences like that. A lot of them also went to film school and look for a well made film. Just admit that you are pretentious and forgot what a good movie is.
Yep, it wasn't perfect, but I *LOVED* the bits that worked for me so damn much that, whereas it's shortcomings would ruin my enjoyment of most other movies, I found myself turning an unusual blind eye to the aspects of Venom that let it down! That's because, IMO, it nailed the most important and crucial things that it *HAD* to get right, especially for fan acceptance. Things such as how Venom looked, moved and acted and his overall tone, the darkly comic action and violence, and most important of all, the Eddie-Venom relationship, their individual personalities, and the evolution of their symbiotic relationship, going from Venom being slightly parasitic and having no love for earth, to working in harmony with Eddie, becoming more endeared with earth, plus all the humour that comes put of their relationship and it's evolution was perfectly represented and respectful of the original material too. Best thing about Venom movie by far!
To Spencer’s point, it’s one thing to switch the gender or race of a random character, it would be another thing to change the race of Black Panther or the gender of Wonder Woman or something where it’s important to the character’s story
What's annoying is when people know this but throw out stupid counter-arguments when discussing other changes, like requesting Danny Rand be played as Asian American. Luke Cage and Black Panther are black characters - their background is the reason they were created. Danny Rand is white because it was 1974. But Broccoli is right - Bond has to be male, has to be British, and (imo) has to be white, as the subtext of the character is that he embodies British imperialism,
I saw one critic refer to Venom as "Toxic Masculinity". I don't know where tf that reviewer got that from. Michelle Williams had a nice part in the movie. If anything, Eddie was the DAMSEL IN DISTRESS, and Anne saved him multiple times
Yes the movie definatly about masculinity , thats the reason they don't like it , but masculinity that seems toxic but is in fact positive that's the whole point of the movie
Probably the same people that said the new Spider-Man game shouldn't have you work with police and shouldn't have punch violent criminals attempting a prison break in the face. They think Spidey should not trust the police at all period because all of them have to be bad, and that violent people who are in the act of violence shouldn't be handled appropriately... Just people virtue signaling and looking for something to complain about. Let's leave politics out of non political things... Not saying that you are doing that, I am just saying that people in general should stop doing that.
There was a part in the movie where Annie literally becomes one with Venom and saves Eddie, even if it means risking her life as was shown during the experiments with other symbiotes. WTF is wrong with some people?! Eddie didn't act like a douchebag when Annie broke up. He missed her, he was heart broken but respected her decision to separate. He even apologised to her for getting her fired unintentionally. Even the new boyfriend was so understanding and even tried to help Eddie. He didn't have to. But he did his duty as a doctor and as a good man. So, the male characters ( the good guys atleast) were brave, responsible, professional, respected the female character's decisions... Which one of these fall within toxic masculinity? NONE. All these are masculine traits that everyone should have. Some people are just too dumb to get it. This is coming from a woman btw.
There are a lot of good reasons to like Venom. There are a lot of good reasons to dislike Venom. Textbook movie that fails with critics but great with audiences, but I would be in the camp that says this is better than the Transformers movies and other poor but financially successful movies (Pixels, later Pirates, etc.)
TBH, Venom is a movie I'd easily watch again in the theaters. It was a very fun movie! I grew up a 90's kid, with an older brother who had a decent comic collection, so I have a history w/ the comic version of Venom and the Spider-Man cartoon. I really liked what they did w/ this movie version though, with the unique backstory specific to this movie universe. If you can embrace the comic tradition of multiple universes, then it's very easy, I think, to buy into this story. There's enough history w/ the "symbiotes" in Marvel that you can mine a ton of material before you have to go anywhere near Spider-Man, which is still a viable option with the universe they've set up. There are definitely some parts of the movie which were pretty unbelievable, but overall, and especially with the last 2/3rds, it really worked for me. I think if you watch this movie with an eye for critical film making, this movie is FAR from perfect, and you'd most likely not like this movie, but then I'd say you're coming into this movie for the wrong reasons. I came in to watch a Venom movie (/Tom Hardy movie), good or bad, the same way most people went to watch the DCEU movies, good or bad. It just so happens that the Venom movie was actually pretty good. Let's not forget, Marvel hasn't exactly batted 1.000. I'd easily put this movie above the first two Thor movies and the first Ant-Man. Even the most critical can find something good about this movie. So if you haven't yet, and you're interested, don't let the negative reviews deter you. Give this movie a chance, and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
@@ther3aper561 I think that when I see First Man early next week I'm going to do a double feature. Pay to go see FM then afterwards on my way out of theater accidentally get lost on my way out of theater and see Venom again.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a lot of 007 set pieces and action sequences...but as a character, the reason I'm not a huge Bond fan is just because I can't relate to him on any level
+Billy Business In the novels the fact he's a bit of a cypher works as the reader can vicariously imagine themself as Bond as he's a blabk slate. Obviously that doesn't translate to screen!
I love the chemistry of the screen junkies folks, no over the top aggression, they're fair & rational yet passionate, and they mostly time their talking almost perfectly, so in sync!
It'd be interesting to compare Ant-Man and the Wasp with Venom. The former is a much better movie in my opinion but I would watch Venom a million times before I watch Ant-Man 2 again.
Highly underrated (imho) comment by Billy here at 22:54, about MI over Bond. Such a great storytelling point, and credit where credit's due. Great stuff. Thank you.
I suspect the reason its doing well is because Marvel Studios recovered the Spiderman brand with the past 3 movies. Anecdotally, many of my friends who are not comicbook fans believe this to be set in the MCU or to have spiderman in some capacity. I suspect that's the case with many who saw this film.
@The Law you're in the small minority. Spiderman Homecoming performed undisputedly both critically and financially better than the previous spiderman movie.
Boy I hate that term, critic-proof, as if critics were that important and that fans will listen to what they have to say. Hopefully nobody alters their viewing schedule based on what critics said. Movie critics were better back in the days of Ebert, but now they're just as bad as video games critics, they want to be in the cool gang, you read one and you've read them all.
I was originally excited for Venom but then with the trailers & as it got closer, I was considering just bailing on it. It was specifically Dan's (seemingly out of character) non-spoiler review that made me go see it. Sure critics aren't an end all be all. I just find it odd that someone that watches something like SJU News holds zero value in critics opinions; considering these guys are critics & these are their opinions.
I don't want to live in a world where a movie's box office always aligns with its critical reception. I like these surprises. It makes box office tracking more interesting sure but as far as supporting diversity of films out there it's good too. Viewing habits becoming so homogenized and predictable I think would be sad.
Your totally right. A society we are better served if the market cannot totally predict what we would like because we would then just get the same product over and over and thus not like it
Venom is what it is. It's a ridiculously fun and silly movie about a guy and Venom. It had laughs, it had a story that was coherent enough and end credits that teased new movies. What more could you want? It's not a great movie, it's decent. I would say it's closer to 7/10 for me. I don't think any movie is ever critic proof--which does that just mean that it doesn't matter if critics hate it, people see it anyways--(just double checking). I didn't have high expectations for this movie and to be fair, I didn't know much about this Venom which probably helped me like it more than others. I would not compare it at all to Catwoman. That movie was just beyond hope. It wasn't even funny or whatever. That was just Halle Barry trying to make do with a crappy script and crappy storyline. This (Venom) was at least a decent script, good casting (at least for the lead and for the villain) and that's all you really need. Whether things make perfect sense, well, there are definitely issues with plot holes and such and some things could have had more explanation but whatever. It's fine. It's not great, but good enough. Enjoyable, funny and silly.
When I see critical consensus, I think "Ooh, that's interesting, but I'll decide for myself". I don't let reviews dictate my actions or thoughts, cause then what's the point of even having your own tastes?
If there are a lot of "Me no lika" ness then I wouldn't change if I'd see a film or not. But if there are a lot of "Here are the specific flaws and reasons why it breaks" and the same points are raised.....I'd think twice if the issues mean the film doesn't work.
Great show guys! Always love it when Billy’s up there :) also I liked venom a lot for basically the exact same reasons as Dan. He puts the words together so nicely. Tom Hardy cattier the movie for me and watching the characterization of Eddie Brock and Venom and watching Tom Hardy’s performance as Eddie Brock and Venom was incredibly delightful for me; he killed it and I ended up loving both characters, especially Venom. Very different and interesting and fun as far as those characters go. Literally everything else I can admit was poopy garbage, but Tom Hardy overwhelmed that for me. It’s like he came in with 80 bottles of Febreze after someone took a 20 pound dump in the bathroom and didn’t flush.
Poor Mrs. Billy, lol!!! :D Venom voice... Btw, I would love an SJNews episode with all the hosts' spouses and special others, too. That would be amazing. Can we make that happen, if they agree? Would be so awesome!
I think Venom mainly had the curiosity factor going for it, especially since it was announced. Not to mention, the mixed reviews make people want to see it to decide for themselves if they like it or not. And who doesn't dig Tom Hardy?😂 I'm personally very curious to see it and I like Tom Hardy. And if Venom is as funny as I've heard from some, I wanna laugh with it too. ...and I wanna see symbiotes beat the hell out of each other😁😂
I agree with Dan about Venom. I think most of the critics were very critical (which is definitely their job) but this Venom is the classic "Turn off your brain" movie. I felt that from the trailers. They looked so ridiculous and out-there that I went into it with no expectations and wasn't disappointed in the slightest.
Remarriage? Sue could be black too? I'm half white (don't know what)/ half Japanese, my grandpa was black through remarriage. I didn't meet my biological grandfather, so my mum's stepdad was grandpa to me. Families aren't binary
Any movie that gets written off by everyone from the beginning that does so well in the theaters gives me a great joy :D I haven't even seen Venom yet. But I'm glad it is doing so well.
Hollywood movies are made for the widest audience possible. Not for a group of people who are fans of this or that comic book. Not even for US audience only. Most of the money come from abroad these days. Venom has a $100 million budget. If the target audience was simply the comic fans, it would have one percent of the budget and would have looked just like Batman with Adam West did. Lets have some perspective. OR.... comic book fans can go to their bank, withdraw a few hundred million dollars and pay for the movie they want to see, exactly as they want it.
I'm not sure they disparaged Venom that much in this episode to warrant this many words. Your point is not only valid but carefully written and in no way disrespectful except in the reference to the fans of the medium in which you state they should open their eyes as it were. Comic book movies can be done well that doesn't mean they all have to be prestige movies, but banking on the foreign box office an iron clad defense does not make. I myself liked Venom, it just didn't set me on fire, thats why like Billy and the rest I won't die on this hill.
@Hayden Wideman , you are right, the last part sounded disrespectful, because i had in my mind those who start vitriolic attacks, certainly not Billy, not you nor the vast majority of comic book fans (like myself). I unintentionally painted with a very wide brush.
I enjoyed the movie. I wanted to see the movie because I was a fan of the Todd McFarlane artistic style back in the day. I enjoyed the banter between Venom and Brock. Critics don't think for everyone because everyone has different taste.
After all yhe bad reviews I was expecting garbage, but walked out like WTF is everyone talking about. I felt guilty for liking it so much. I wanted to go watch it again. Hell I can't stop saying " who the Hell is this guy" lol
Oooh...! Okay, then. I was wondering all past week. Good for him! :D Thanks for the reply. I hope you have a nice evening/night/morning/afternoon (!?).
Critics are film experienced people. They focus on the little things like continuity errors, inconsistencies with character mentality, good looking action scenes, and of course the acting. Audiences just want to be entertained
It's basically a mater of whether you view movies as things meant to be dissected or just as a means of entertainment. It's a fun movie, plain and simple. Also, the "turd in the wind" in the trailer should've been enough to tell you the tone of the movie. It's not something meant to be taken seriously nor is it meant to bring about any deep thoughts.
As my go-to film new stop, I was REALLY hoping you would give Scott Wilson more credit than the other new sources that just credit him mainly as "the Walking Dead actor". I understand that TWD was his most recent success... but this is a season actor with things like "In Cold Blood", "Monster", and most recently "Hostiles" under his belt. Hardly any new source is going into his extended filmography and it makes me sad. I was hoping you guys would. *sigh
Unexpected feeling of the day - joy in watching these folks eat crow. Especially ole boy on the far left. Not usually my thing, but rn for some particular reason it is.
Movies are like jokes, there’s a lot of objectively bad jokes but that doesn’t mean they won’t make your significant other laugh. And there’s a lot of objectively good jokes but your mom can still think Bill Burr is horrible. The thing is there’s also objectively good jokes but they only make half the audience laugh, that’s just how it works. Don’t use your enjoyment to say something is objectively bad or good. I think that’s where a lot of critics go awry, they should have two sections one where critics analyze the objective truths about the movie: plot, film technique, and most of all the message it was trying to display. Then another section saying personal enjoyment or dissatisfaction, maybe it had a plot but film technique was weak and the message is 75% conceived, but it was the most fun you personally had in years and viewers and you recommend it. If all critics did things like this then we would solve so many of these problems, maybe not eradicate them but it puts things into perspective.
When they talked about Bond I can't help but think of Anthony Horowtiz who wrote a Bond book in the cold war period and how he managed to work with modern views at the same time. The way he used Pussy Galore in the story gave you sense of the type of man Bond is and the lead female character Jeopardy Lane is not some silly love struck girl. She still of course goes to bed with Bond but she knows that they have different paths and that it is nothing more than a joyful affair.
I would watch Philosophy Corner, sounds like a really interesting idea for a weekly clip. Perhaps looking at older movies so they can spoil the hell out of them and not care about people complaining about it.
We can disagree civilly but also we as viewers get to choose who best represents our views to listen to, saying someone's review shows they do align with your tastes isn't personal even if the reasons are life experiences
I liked Venom so much !! I thought it was really entertaining. I went with friends and some didn't liked it and others were kind of indifferent but I liked it
Not the venom I wanted but I still really liked this. I feel they got the symbiote really spot on... I wasnt fond of Eddie nor the story but it was a good fun movie!
Not CURLY hair BUSHY hair. I had to correct you on that Spencer because I am the Harry Potter Keeper of the Lore (made up title I gave myself because I love Harry Potter and know the Canon (not that you don't)).
went to see it yesterday wasn't to bad but my friend who was with he loved it but then again venom is his favorite character so I could see why hes exicted about seeing it
I was slightly disappointed in Venom given Dan's approval of it. I agreed with his sentiment about how the relationship between Eddie and Venom sold me on the whole movie but the problem is there wasn't nearly enough of that to make the movie work as a whole. I needed more god damnit.
Does the Doctor actually choose what he comes back as? I thought it was random, she always seems surprised by the new body she finds herself in. Also 009 is the best choice for the number for the female spy movie in the Bond universe. (006 is the next best sounding, but that was Sean Beans number so anyone who uses it will die in the movie) Get the same M, Q and Moneypenny from the recent Craig movies and just do it! I nominate Emily Blunt.
Hi Guys 👋 So I’m curious why have all characters in first film?? Hence “putting eggs in one basket?” Why have B+ rating, but have somewhat negative critical reviews and audiences positive? Devise??
It's funny to me as an older guy (I'm 44). When I grew up, people (in general) loved living in a country where people have individual tastes. That we live in a country where you could find every style of food and every type of movie and having choice was great. With movies, they factored in how much money they would make for that type of audience, instead how do you make a movie that pleases everyone. They still had a target audience, something a bit more rare now. Now it's make the movie vanilla. At least with the big blockbusters. I'll stay movies because, well, this is screenjunkies, but these days now people have fits simply because people like a movie they don't. It's been happening for the last....I don't know, 10 years or so seems where it's gotten severe and widespread. The need for validation is weird for me. Why are generations coming up so insecure that even their entertainment needs to be agreed on like a mass whole to all like and not like the exact same stuff? It pours into other things beyond movies, but all this talk about divisiveness over....well, seems like just about anything these days. Friendships will end over whether toast is better than untoasted bread. I don't understand why anyone cares what someone else thinks. Sure, it's good to find someone who does like what you do, paticularly in entertainment, because it can be fun to talk about a movie you both had fun with. But who cares about trying to change someone's opinion? The weird thing is there are people looking at Rotten Tomatoes to dictate if a movie they're interested in, whether they'll see it. Many don't even read reviews, they just look at the numbers. Low critic numbers, many think it's bad. As if it were fact and not opinions. Why are so many people so uptight? I'm really glad I didn't come up in the current generation. They seem awfully miserable and nit picky about everything to a ridiculous level. Even something as silly as Venom is causing namer calling, haha. With that, I'll just toss out I think Venom is great.
Venom probably will get a sequel, if you compare it to something like The Predator which also got bad reviews but its audience score is 43 which isn't great because it's not a good movie, the difference also is The Predator has been out a while with 123.4 million from an 88 million budget so they got 35 million back I think, Venom is only out and has 200 million from 100-116 million budget
I thought one of the reason everyone liked mamoa aquaman was because they didn't try to make him the silly green and orange wearing character people use to make fun of? But just for the fun of it, picture that last image of aquaman from the trailer with chris evans head. So comic perfect!
I think it's possible many critics are simply not good for movies. They might even be especially bad for theaters. Venom is a terrific movie for people who like to PAY to see movies in theaters. If critics were in charge, most of the movies made would not be worth seeing in an actual movie theater. Think HEREDITARY and BLADE RUNNER 2049. VENOM delivered and it was made for people who enjoy movies rather than critics who apparently don't really like movies but "appreciate" them.
Everybody brings up that Monica Bellucci Scene from Spectre as being very sexist and terrible and it totally is... But why do y'all ignore the scene from Skyfall where Bond meets a lady who tells him she's basically been born into sexual enslavement and his next move is to break into her place and walk in on her showering? Yeah that's not taking advantage at all. Awesome show as usual!
Venom wasn't a perfect movie by any stretch of the imagination but it wasn't as bad as reviews made it seem. I thought it was going to be a dumpster fire but it wasn't. A lot of reviews greatly exaggerated how bad it was and a few exaggerated how good it was. It was nothing special but it wasn't anything to burn the internet down about either, it was fine. I gave it a 6/10.
I think critics reviewing it like it was the worst thing in this world when it wasn't was the point of the backlash, there's been worst comic book movies, Venom unlike a lot of truly bad ones is enjoyable and rewatchable
Survival of the fittest means survival (propagation and influence) of the genes, from one generation to the next, that have the most offspring. In biology the term Fitness refers to an individuals success in viable children, not necessarily to physical prowess. Although being big and strong can help you live longer and this have more babies in some situations..... like fighting a tiger. But not so much in others, like during a drought or food shortage (because big creatures eat more).
Didn't they? Billy did not like it, Dan liked it, Spencer didn't see it. I think Roth was the only one that wasn't clear. SJU doesn't have to have a collective opinion.
Some critics took a massive dump on Venom, comparing it to Catwoman, Showgirls, and Batman and Robin. Hyperbole will often be met with hyperbole, and the internet magnifies it all out of proportion.
Anyone who compared Venom to one of those movies should never be taken seriously anymore. Whatever shortcomings the movie has its by no means a totally unredeemable movie with no good parts.
What was wrong with Showgirls?? haha
Whenever the critics and the general public don't agree the critics get more pretentious and the audience gets even more adamant about giving the critics the middle finger.
Audiences want an experience. Did I laugh, did I cry, was I awestruck? Very different than at what a critic looks. Most critics went to film school, so they look for a well made film. Continuity errors, terrible wigs, bad tonal balance, etc driver them batshit, especially in large budgeted movies where the director, producer, editor, and script supervisor should have fixed it.
@@deelzebub1213 very true. But those critics are sharing reviews to the general audience. I think critics are being too lazy nowadays. They only focus on the things you mention but they dont analyze it as a reg viewer. I think they are in the perfect position to bridge that gap and give a balanced review explaining both production and experience.
Question is, can one even objectively determine if a film was fun, if the reviewer has seen hundreds or thousands of movies and has a much higher threshold for appreciating the "worse" movies.
You can't dismiss the audiences like that. A lot of them also went to film school and look for a well made film. Just admit that you are pretentious and forgot what a good movie is.
a tip: you can watch series at Flixzone. Me and my gf have been using them for watching a lot of movies these days.
I will admit it. I liked Venom.
Samezies
Me too. It was surprisingly funny, in my opinion it looked really good and again great performance by Tom Hardy.
Yep, it wasn't perfect, but I *LOVED* the bits that worked for me so damn much that, whereas it's shortcomings would ruin my enjoyment of most other movies, I found myself turning an unusual blind eye to the aspects of Venom that let it down!
That's because, IMO, it nailed the most important and crucial things that it *HAD* to get right, especially for fan acceptance. Things such as how Venom looked, moved and acted and his overall tone, the darkly comic action and violence, and most important of all, the Eddie-Venom relationship, their individual personalities, and the evolution of their symbiotic relationship, going from Venom being slightly parasitic and having no love for earth, to working in harmony with Eddie, becoming more endeared with earth, plus all the humour that comes put of their relationship and it's evolution was perfectly represented and respectful of the original material too. Best thing about Venom movie by far!
It seems like most people did
Forensic Chick I liked it at first but it grows on me the more I think about it. It was one of the most fun theater experiences I’ve ever had by far.
I would start a fight about Venom if that meant people would stop fighting about the Last Jedi
Ha-ha, no chance.
Let the past (TLJ) die. Kill it if you have to. The debate can’t die until the consensus is that it’s by far the worst of the new Star Wars films!
No comment......last jedi sucks...... I couldn't resist.😂sorry
@@fredrickgarrettsr2632 actually I wouldn't be surprised if the reason Spencer said that movies don't need to pay off, was to reference to TLJ
Amen brother
I saw it Sunday at 215. My audience was clapping at the end. I enjoyed it. Tom hardy carried it on his back. The audience was really into it
To Spencer’s point, it’s one thing to switch the gender or race of a random character, it would be another thing to change the race of Black Panther or the gender of Wonder Woman or something where it’s important to the character’s story
What's annoying is when people know this but throw out stupid counter-arguments when discussing other changes, like requesting Danny Rand be played as Asian American. Luke Cage and Black Panther are black characters - their background is the reason they were created. Danny Rand is white because it was 1974. But Broccoli is right - Bond has to be male, has to be British, and (imo) has to be white, as the subtext of the character is that he embodies British imperialism,
I saw one critic refer to Venom as "Toxic Masculinity". I don't know where tf that reviewer got that from. Michelle Williams had a nice part in the movie. If anything, Eddie was the DAMSEL IN DISTRESS, and Anne saved him multiple times
Don't believe in them, they give Furious 7 perfect score
Yes the movie definatly about masculinity , thats the reason they don't like it , but masculinity that seems toxic but is in fact positive that's the whole point of the movie
Probably the same people that said the new Spider-Man game shouldn't have you work with police and shouldn't have punch violent criminals attempting a prison break in the face. They think Spidey should not trust the police at all period because all of them have to be bad, and that violent people who are in the act of violence shouldn't be handled appropriately... Just people virtue signaling and looking for something to complain about. Let's leave politics out of non political things...
Not saying that you are doing that, I am just saying that people in general should stop doing that.
There was a part in the movie where Annie literally becomes one with Venom and saves Eddie, even if it means risking her life as was shown during the experiments with other symbiotes. WTF is wrong with some people?!
Eddie didn't act like a douchebag when Annie broke up. He missed her, he was heart broken but respected her decision to separate.
He even apologised to her for getting her fired unintentionally.
Even the new boyfriend was so understanding and even tried to help Eddie. He didn't have to. But he did his duty as a doctor and as a good man.
So, the male characters ( the good guys atleast) were brave, responsible, professional, respected the female character's decisions... Which one of these fall within toxic masculinity? NONE.
All these are masculine traits that everyone should have. Some people are just too dumb to get it.
This is coming from a woman btw.
There are a lot of good reasons to like Venom. There are a lot of good reasons to dislike Venom. Textbook movie that fails with critics but great with audiences, but I would be in the camp that says this is better than the Transformers movies and other poor but financially successful movies (Pixels, later Pirates, etc.)
TBH, Venom is a movie I'd easily watch again in the theaters. It was a very fun movie! I grew up a 90's kid, with an older brother who had a decent comic collection, so I have a history w/ the comic version of Venom and the Spider-Man cartoon. I really liked what they did w/ this movie version though, with the unique backstory specific to this movie universe. If you can embrace the comic tradition of multiple universes, then it's very easy, I think, to buy into this story. There's enough history w/ the "symbiotes" in Marvel that you can mine a ton of material before you have to go anywhere near Spider-Man, which is still a viable option with the universe they've set up. There are definitely some parts of the movie which were pretty unbelievable, but overall, and especially with the last 2/3rds, it really worked for me. I think if you watch this movie with an eye for critical film making, this movie is FAR from perfect, and you'd most likely not like this movie, but then I'd say you're coming into this movie for the wrong reasons. I came in to watch a Venom movie (/Tom Hardy movie), good or bad, the same way most people went to watch the DCEU movies, good or bad. It just so happens that the Venom movie was actually pretty good. Let's not forget, Marvel hasn't exactly batted 1.000. I'd easily put this movie above the first two Thor movies and the first Ant-Man. Even the most critical can find something good about this movie. So if you haven't yet, and you're interested, don't let the negative reviews deter you. Give this movie a chance, and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
@@ther3aper561 I think that when I see First Man early next week I'm going to do a double feature. Pay to go see FM then afterwards on my way out of theater accidentally get lost on my way out of theater and see Venom again.
Billie's take on James Bond completely nailed my feelings of what hinders me from getting into that character.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a lot of 007 set pieces and action sequences...but as a character, the reason I'm not a huge Bond fan is just because I can't relate to him on any level
+Billy Business In the novels the fact he's a bit of a cypher works as the reader can vicariously imagine themself as Bond as he's a blabk slate. Obviously that doesn't translate to screen!
The Bond Billy wants is in On Her Majesty's Secret Service. It would be interesting to go that way with Craig since we're now in reboot territory.
I love the chemistry of the screen junkies folks, no over the top aggression, they're fair & rational yet passionate, and they mostly time their talking almost perfectly, so in sync!
Wow, Billy’s Scott Wilson commentary had me unexpectedly crying ♥️ Thanks for that.
It'd be interesting to compare Ant-Man and the Wasp with Venom. The former is a much better movie in my opinion but I would watch Venom a million times before I watch Ant-Man 2 again.
100% agree.
I liked Venom more than, thor 2, Iron man 2 and 3, Guardians 2, antman and wasp, avengers 2, and 90 percent of the X-Men movies.
Jurassic World 2 was critic proof too, people love crazy shit on screen.
BLVCK Atlantian now that was a terrible movie. The island volcano scenes, seemed like cheap manipulation, and killed the rest of the movie for me.
But they do get tired of it eventually... Transformers 5
Also Transformers.............
I love crazy shit on screen
I am so glad that someone brought up JW2. I think these movies offer a good point of comparison to each other.
RIP Scott Wilson. Best wishes go out to all his family and friends.
Highly underrated (imho) comment by Billy here at 22:54, about MI over Bond. Such a great storytelling point, and credit where credit's due. Great stuff. Thank you.
I suspect the reason its doing well is because Marvel Studios recovered the Spiderman brand with the past 3 movies. Anecdotally, many of my friends who are not comicbook fans believe this to be set in the MCU or to have spiderman in some capacity. I suspect that's the case with many who saw this film.
The Law It's making most people happy and keeping Sony in the green for the time being.
@The Law you're in the small minority. Spiderman Homecoming performed undisputedly both critically and financially better than the previous spiderman movie.
@The Lawlook another iron boy classification for mcu spiderman. How fresh...
Na its just a fun movie
Boy I hate that term, critic-proof, as if critics were that important and that fans will listen to what they have to say. Hopefully nobody alters their viewing schedule based on what critics said. Movie critics were better back in the days of Ebert, but now they're just as bad as video games critics, they want to be in the cool gang, you read one and you've read them all.
Should be top comment
I was originally excited for Venom but then with the trailers & as it got closer, I was considering just bailing on it. It was specifically Dan's (seemingly out of character) non-spoiler review that made me go see it.
Sure critics aren't an end all be all. I just find it odd that someone that watches something like SJU News holds zero value in critics opinions; considering these guys are critics & these are their opinions.
I can't figure out if Roth intentionally lists things as "A, and 2..." but it throws me every time :P
Shane Graham Mahon well not sure about internationally. I think she just nationally does it.
I do it myself and it’s often intentional, and sometimes I’ll say ‘1, and B’ just for goofs.
I’m starting to think Roth is the lady me.
I think of the brother in Home Alone that listed points as "A, 2, and D."
I don't want to live in a world where a movie's box office always aligns with its critical reception. I like these surprises. It makes box office tracking more interesting sure but as far as supporting diversity of films out there it's good too. Viewing habits becoming so homogenized and predictable I think would be sad.
Your totally right.
A society we are better served if the market cannot totally predict what we would like because we would then just get the same product over and over and thus not like it
These days, I actively try to avoid hearing what critics have to say. They all say the same things and I seem to disagree with them a lot
I really liked venom, I'm not sure why critic response even matters.
Will admit I am a big Venom fan comics and all.
Venom is not great, but is definitely entertaining... And Hardy works great with the character, lots of potential for a bro-comedy sequel of Venom!
i went for tom hardy and he can do no wrong in my eyes so i really liked the movie 👊👊
Venom is what it is. It's a ridiculously fun and silly movie about a guy and Venom. It had laughs, it had a story that was coherent enough and end credits that teased new movies. What more could you want? It's not a great movie, it's decent. I would say it's closer to 7/10 for me.
I don't think any movie is ever critic proof--which does that just mean that it doesn't matter if critics hate it, people see it anyways--(just double checking). I didn't have high expectations for this movie and to be fair, I didn't know much about this Venom which probably helped me like it more than others. I would not compare it at all to Catwoman. That movie was just beyond hope. It wasn't even funny or whatever. That was just Halle Barry trying to make do with a crappy script and crappy storyline.
This (Venom) was at least a decent script, good casting (at least for the lead and for the villain) and that's all you really need. Whether things make perfect sense, well, there are definitely issues with plot holes and such and some things could have had more explanation but whatever. It's fine. It's not great, but good enough. Enjoyable, funny and silly.
Every movie should be critic-proof. The only opinion you should really take into account is your own AFTER you've seen a movie you're interested in.
When I see critical consensus, I think "Ooh, that's interesting, but I'll decide for myself". I don't let reviews dictate my actions or thoughts, cause then what's the point of even having your own tastes?
If there are a lot of "Me no lika" ness then I wouldn't change if I'd see a film or not.
But if there are a lot of "Here are the specific flaws and reasons why it breaks" and the same points are raised.....I'd think twice if the issues mean the film doesn't work.
I really liked this movie, I’m a huge fan of Venom from the comics, and yes this is not the comic book Venom.
I’d love the Roth and Spencer Philosophy hour ❤️😂
The comments on the venom video are good don't worry. Just most people saying they liked the movie...at least it was like that a few days ago.
:)
Great show guys! Always love it when Billy’s up there :) also I liked venom a lot for basically the exact same reasons as Dan. He puts the words together so nicely. Tom Hardy cattier the movie for me and watching the characterization of Eddie Brock and Venom and watching Tom Hardy’s performance as Eddie Brock and Venom was incredibly delightful for me; he killed it and I ended up loving both characters, especially Venom. Very different and interesting and fun as far as those characters go. Literally everything else I can admit was poopy garbage, but Tom Hardy overwhelmed that for me. It’s like he came in with 80 bottles of Febreze after someone took a 20 pound dump in the bathroom and didn’t flush.
Poor Mrs. Billy, lol!!! :D Venom voice... Btw, I would love an SJNews episode with all the hosts' spouses and special others, too. That would be amazing. Can we make that happen, if they agree? Would be so awesome!
I think Venom mainly had the curiosity factor going for it, especially since it was announced. Not to mention, the mixed reviews make people want to see it to decide for themselves if they like it or not. And who doesn't dig Tom Hardy?😂 I'm personally very curious to see it and I like Tom Hardy. And if Venom is as funny as I've heard from some, I wanna laugh with it too.
...and I wanna see symbiotes beat the hell out of each other😁😂
I agree with Dan about Venom. I think most of the critics were very critical (which is definitely their job) but this Venom is the classic "Turn off your brain" movie. I felt that from the trailers. They looked so ridiculous and out-there that I went into it with no expectations and wasn't disappointed in the slightest.
I love you guys. I like Venom and I like hearing your opinions. And these were the opinions I expected, so all is right with the world.
5:03 “I wasn’t mislead” ? But I thought the trailers were showing a very different kind of movie?
Sorry Spencer, Johnny storm is Sue storm's brother. So in that case it does matter.
Remarriage? Sue could be black too?
I'm half white (don't know what)/ half Japanese, my grandpa was black through remarriage. I didn't meet my biological grandfather, so my mum's stepdad was grandpa to me.
Families aren't binary
Loved Venom. It was fun and funny. Don't get the hate from people like Roth (she liked Mother! c'on! LOL)
That movie you're discussing where it's more compact and crazy from the beginning? It's called Upgrade lol
My son, husband and I all really enjoyed it....🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️
I just noticed your haircut Billy Bussiness. It looks great! You should keep surprising us! You should dye it blue or something!
The full Venom R cut is coming
RIP Scott Wilson, great story Billy.
Any movie that gets written off by everyone from the beginning that does so well in the theaters gives me a great joy :D I haven't even seen Venom yet. But I'm glad it is doing so well.
Hollywood movies are made for the widest audience possible. Not for a group of people who are fans of this or that comic book. Not even for US audience only. Most of the money come from abroad these days. Venom has a $100 million budget. If the target audience was simply the comic fans, it would have one percent of the budget and would have looked just like Batman with Adam West did. Lets have some perspective. OR.... comic book fans can go to their bank, withdraw a few hundred million dollars and pay for the movie they want to see, exactly as they want it.
I'm not sure they disparaged Venom that much in this episode to warrant this many words. Your point is not only valid but carefully written and in no way disrespectful except in the reference to the fans of the medium in which you state they should open their eyes as it were. Comic book movies can be done well that doesn't mean they all have to be prestige movies, but banking on the foreign box office an iron clad defense does not make. I myself liked Venom, it just didn't set me on fire, thats why like Billy and the rest I won't die on this hill.
@Hayden Wideman , you are right, the last part sounded disrespectful, because i had in my mind those who start vitriolic attacks, certainly not Billy, not you nor the vast majority of comic book fans (like myself). I unintentionally painted with a very wide brush.
What the heck, guys. Where's the OPENING PUN?!?!
guys... you can spoil things. Please just say _SPOILER_ *before* you spoil, not afterwards - so that people can somewhat prepare.
Tom Hardy in Bronson definitely showed off his versatility as an actor/ability to play more than 1 person, that's still my fave role of his lol.
I enjoyed the movie. I wanted to see the movie because I was a fan of the Todd McFarlane artistic style back in the day. I enjoyed the banter between Venom and Brock. Critics don't think for everyone because everyone has different taste.
G.m. Strong Yes. They need to understand taste is inherently subjective.
It's something that I noticed in their reviews of Venom. Dan and Danielle both like the movie for different reasons while Roth didn't like the movie.
After all yhe bad reviews I was expecting garbage, but walked out like WTF is everyone talking about. I felt guilty for liking it so much. I wanted to go watch it again. Hell I can't stop saying " who the Hell is this guy" lol
Where's my Joe? Haven't seen him in a week :(
@@isen2619 oh good! I hope he enjoys it and get some good rest!
But i realized he won't be there for the commentary for Doctor Who HT... Too bad :)
Where is Joe? I miss him! I was really hoping to see him again this week. But don't get me wrong, I like seeing Billy on the panel, as well! ;-)
Oooh...! Okay, then. I was wondering all past week. Good for him! :D
Thanks for the reply. I hope you have a nice evening/night/morning/afternoon (!?).
There's a doctor who honest trailer? Which season? All? Spencer you just broke my brain.
The reaction from people I'm seeing who loved Venom are "I expected a horror anti-hero and instead I got an amazing romcom"
Everyone's face on the panel when they had to talk about venom was priceless- there should be a "one for you-one for us" topic ratio
Its amazing how much I agreed with Dan's review of the movie. What he loved about the movie I really loved, what he hated I....tolerated.
Critics are film experienced people. They focus on the little things like continuity errors, inconsistencies with character mentality, good looking action scenes, and of course the acting. Audiences just want to be entertained
Venom vs deadpool: maximum insanity
It's basically a mater of whether you view movies as things meant to be dissected or just as a means of entertainment. It's a fun movie, plain and simple.
Also, the "turd in the wind" in the trailer should've been enough to tell you the tone of the movie. It's not something meant to be taken seriously nor is it meant to bring about any deep thoughts.
As my go-to film new stop, I was REALLY hoping you would give Scott Wilson more credit than the other new sources that just credit him mainly as "the Walking Dead actor". I understand that TWD was his most recent success... but this is a season actor with things like "In Cold Blood", "Monster", and most recently "Hostiles" under his belt. Hardly any new source is going into his extended filmography and it makes me sad. I was hoping you guys would. *sigh
I went yesterday, knowing the critics were bad and not impressed with the trailer. I was surprised at how much I enjoyed it.
Venom was not a great movie but critics exaggerated how bad it was. Audiences do not care about Rotten Tomatoes.
Word of the day to Spencer.
Unexpected feeling of the day - joy in watching these folks eat crow. Especially ole boy on the far left. Not usually my thing, but rn for some particular reason it is.
Talking Espinosa, his film Life should had been a prequel to Venom.
Movies are like jokes, there’s a lot of objectively bad jokes but that doesn’t mean they won’t make your significant other laugh. And there’s a lot of objectively good jokes but your mom can still think Bill Burr is horrible. The thing is there’s also objectively good jokes but they only make half the audience laugh, that’s just how it works. Don’t use your enjoyment to say something is objectively bad or good. I think that’s where a lot of critics go awry, they should have two sections one where critics analyze the objective truths about the movie: plot, film technique, and most of all the message it was trying to display. Then another section saying personal enjoyment or dissatisfaction, maybe it had a plot but film technique was weak and the message is 75% conceived, but it was the most fun you personally had in years and viewers and you recommend it. If all critics did things like this then we would solve so many of these problems, maybe not eradicate them but it puts things into perspective.
If people saw "Venom," it wasn't at my theater. Our #1 was by and far "Star."
When they talked about Bond I can't help but think of Anthony Horowtiz who wrote a Bond book in the cold war period and how he managed to work with modern views at the same time. The way he used Pussy Galore in the story gave you sense of the type of man Bond is and the lead female character Jeopardy Lane is not some silly love struck girl. She still of course goes to bed with Bond but she knows that they have different paths and that it is nothing more than a joyful affair.
I would watch Philosophy Corner, sounds like a really interesting idea for a weekly clip. Perhaps looking at older movies so they can spoil the hell out of them and not care about people complaining about it.
We can disagree civilly but also we as viewers get to choose who best represents our views to listen to, saying someone's review shows they do align with your tastes isn't personal even if the reasons are life experiences
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't The Human Torch a white guy in the comics?
Venom did a great job, and some people are sad it did good hahahahaha ready for Venom: Maximum Carnage
I’d say once it’s out for home view spoilers can be had
I liked Venom so much !! I thought it was really entertaining. I went with friends and some didn't liked it and others were kind of indifferent but I liked it
Not the venom I wanted but I still really liked this. I feel they got the symbiote really spot on... I wasnt fond of Eddie nor the story but it was a good fun movie!
Not CURLY hair BUSHY hair.
I had to correct you on that Spencer because I am the Harry Potter Keeper of the Lore (made up title I gave myself because I love Harry Potter and know the Canon (not that you don't)).
It's always funny to see critics who were soooo sure a film would tank get taken to the shit store by audiences.
went to see it yesterday wasn't to bad but my friend who was with he loved it but then again venom is his favorite character so I could see why hes exicted about seeing it
Didn't mention about the audience RT score which is way higher than critics
My name is Eye. Pop-eye. Single O Seven.
Dan with the dapper Danger Mouse shirt
I was slightly disappointed in Venom given Dan's approval of it. I agreed with his sentiment about how the relationship between Eddie and Venom sold me on the whole movie but the problem is there wasn't nearly enough of that to make the movie work as a whole. I needed more god damnit.
Im about to see it again.
Does the Doctor actually choose what he comes back as? I thought it was random, she always seems surprised by the new body she finds herself in.
Also 009 is the best choice for the number for the female spy movie in the Bond universe. (006 is the next best sounding, but that was Sean Beans number so anyone who uses it will die in the movie) Get the same M, Q and Moneypenny from the recent Craig movies and just do it! I nominate Emily Blunt.
Johnny Goodfellow - It's random.
There are a group of time-travel/time-lord specialists who can direct how someone ends up, though.
Venom > A Star Is Born.
Hi Guys 👋
So I’m curious why have all characters in first film?? Hence “putting eggs in one basket?”
Why have B+ rating, but have somewhat negative critical reviews and audiences positive? Devise??
It's funny to me as an older guy (I'm 44). When I grew up, people (in general) loved living in a country where people have individual tastes. That we live in a country where you could find every style of food and every type of movie and having choice was great.
With movies, they factored in how much money they would make for that type of audience, instead how do you make a movie that pleases everyone. They still had a target audience, something a bit more rare now. Now it's make the movie vanilla. At least with the big blockbusters.
I'll stay movies because, well, this is screenjunkies, but these days now people have fits simply because people like a movie they don't. It's been happening for the last....I don't know, 10 years or so seems where it's gotten severe and widespread.
The need for validation is weird for me. Why are generations coming up so insecure that even their entertainment needs to be agreed on like a mass whole to all like and not like the exact same stuff?
It pours into other things beyond movies, but all this talk about divisiveness over....well, seems like just about anything these days. Friendships will end over whether toast is better than untoasted bread.
I don't understand why anyone cares what someone else thinks. Sure, it's good to find someone who does like what you do, paticularly in entertainment, because it can be fun to talk about a movie you both had fun with. But who cares about trying to change someone's opinion?
The weird thing is there are people looking at Rotten Tomatoes to dictate if a movie they're interested in, whether they'll see it. Many don't even read reviews, they just look at the numbers. Low critic numbers, many think it's bad. As if it were fact and not opinions.
Why are so many people so uptight? I'm really glad I didn't come up in the current generation. They seem awfully miserable and nit picky about everything to a ridiculous level. Even something as silly as Venom is causing namer calling, haha.
With that, I'll just toss out I think Venom is great.
Venom was fun was as hell, doesn’t have to be best movie ever to be really enjoyable, I think critics forget to have fun sometimes.
Venom probably will get a sequel, if you compare it to something like The Predator which also got bad reviews but its audience score is 43 which isn't great because it's not a good movie, the difference also is The Predator has been out a while with 123.4 million from an 88 million budget so they got 35 million back I think, Venom is only out and has 200 million from 100-116 million budget
I went in with low expectations and actually enjoyed it.
Much better than other big IPs this year like Solo, Jurassic World 2 and Tomb Raider.
I thought one of the reason everyone liked mamoa aquaman was because they didn't try to make him the silly green and orange wearing character people use to make fun of? But just for the fun of it, picture that last image of aquaman from the trailer with chris evans head. So comic perfect!
I think it's possible many critics are simply not good for movies. They might even be especially bad for theaters. Venom is a terrific movie for people who like to PAY to see movies in theaters. If critics were in charge, most of the movies made would not be worth seeing in an actual movie theater. Think HEREDITARY and BLADE RUNNER 2049.
VENOM delivered and it was made for people who enjoy movies rather than critics who apparently don't really like movies but "appreciate" them.
Everybody brings up that Monica Bellucci Scene from Spectre as being very sexist and terrible and it totally is... But why do y'all ignore the scene from Skyfall where Bond meets a lady who tells him she's basically been born into sexual enslavement and his next move is to break into her place and walk in on her showering? Yeah that's not taking advantage at all.
Awesome show as usual!
Roth is a national treasure. That is all.
Oh and I really like Venom 🤷🏻♂️.
Venom wasn't a perfect movie by any stretch of the imagination but it wasn't as bad as reviews made it seem. I thought it was going to be a dumpster fire but it wasn't. A lot of reviews greatly exaggerated how bad it was and a few exaggerated how good it was. It was nothing special but it wasn't anything to burn the internet down about either, it was fine. I gave it a 6/10.
Venom is a completely watchable film. I was entertained. Will I watch it many times. No. But I think it's worth a watch.
I think critics reviewing it like it was the worst thing in this world when it wasn't was the point of the backlash, there's been worst comic book movies, Venom unlike a lot of truly bad ones is enjoyable and rewatchable
Survival of the fittest means survival (propagation and influence) of the genes, from one generation to the next, that have the most offspring. In biology the term Fitness refers to an individuals success in viable children, not necessarily to physical prowess. Although being big and strong can help you live longer and this have more babies in some situations..... like fighting a tiger. But not so much in others, like during a drought or food shortage (because big creatures eat more).
So WHAT are you saying besides the obvious.... you didnt like it? you hated it? you loved it??.., I loved it by the way. SEE...declare something...
Didn't they? Billy did not like it, Dan liked it, Spencer didn't see it. I think Roth was the only one that wasn't clear. SJU doesn't have to have a collective opinion.
Hmm... i didnt notice.... the lack of energy mustve put me to sleep...
I seen my hero academia:the two heroes last Saturday with my brother and it was ultra awesome and I loved it.
Walking Dead moral compass = Death Sentence