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It’s amazing to me that we are actually having this conversation in America this country politicians have lost their way and understanding of the public they serve
The revolution is never completely won. The forces of authoritarian government still rebel against our charter and deny we are a free people. There are today far too many among us who choose the chains of slavery over the dangers of freedom.
@@FatherFish That kind of talk was actually spear-headed by slaveholders in the early US who were annoyed at getting taxed. They never intended that freedom to extend to their slaves or women, of course.
While I agree that FL is the epicenter regarding the fight on invasive species. I believe the politicians took the easy way out on this. They can't go after the snake breeders without also going after the other exotic breeders (fish or otherwise). I mean did they even talk to environmental scientists. There had to be a more common sense approach. All this is going to do is make the lawyers happy.
Not saying I agree with the bill but there are some huge aquarium fish that have established themselves in the Florida lakes and waterways as well. The aquarium breeders are not just collateral damage. They are also at the center of this as well. Look up the clown knife fish that are pretty much beyond being able to be wiped out and they're top tier predators.
Ok, this is starting to scare me! The government has put their foot in almost every door of hobbyists! I am a fish keeper and love my 2 large tanks. I'm not a breeder nor do I have an entire fish room, I am also an RC enthusiast that flies planes, drones and helicopters, and races rc stadium trucks and boats, and I also am into motorsports and help my brother with his race car.... the government has stuck their foot in every door I mentioned! The race car crap is the worst of the 3 with bans being put on cars and diesel trucks. The rc industry is being attacked because there are too many Karen's in the wild and u can't fly a park flyer airplane without someone losing their minds about being filmed, even tho there are no cameras on most rc planes, and the drones are being attacked as well..... now the fish hobbyist industry. Doesn't the government realize that without the Aquariast hobby, there would be alot more extinct species!? I'm so over our government sticking their noses in where they don't belong. I remember going to an rc flying field as a kid, and no one complained. I remember bringing my rc plane out to a park in 1983 and all the people there were intrigued and fascinated. I feel sorry for our kids and grandkids growing up now. Fun is becoming illegal
wow. your hobbies match perfectly with mine. I am a little upset about my drones. Starting September I am only flying my mini2 until RID modules start coming out. That or I just wont comply with the FAA. But likely the first.
Yeah. I guess everyone who's serious with the fishkeeping hobby is also for protecting the environment. The thing is that so many people who want to protect the environment lose track of the big picture and the whole thing goes from reasonable ( = with good reason ) to ideological and fanatical. I'm here in Germany and a lot of the people who voted for the Green party last election now regret it. This party has transformed into a bit of a "Green fascist" and is trying to regulate the hell out of everything and everyone. Recently spoke to my neighbor who voted for them during the last election and he said he regretted it deeply and that it starts to feel like a "Green Dictatorship"... Any change, any law, regulation, whatever aimed at protecting the environment has to be weighed against the public's freedoms. If you don't take the people's wishes and needs into consideration you'll face the harshest backlash you've ever seen. And what do we get then? I mean, I do want to see the environment protected. I do want to see emmissions reduced. But does this has to be at the cost of "the little man" every single time? No, it doesn't. Especially since the biggest polluter is the big industry. Instead of wasting time, money and resources regulating all the little details, they should start where it makes the biggest difference. But they don't do that because they're cowards afraid to go up against the big corporations. So they keep picking on the little guy. Because he can't fight back. Or so they think.
Lol. Actions have consequences people. Should have stopped rolling coal and encouraging it (diesels), should have stopped releasing animals into the wild (fish keepers and breeders alike. Yall know you get bad hurricanes down there) drones am I less familiar with, but I have seen people breaking laws with em on youtube. Nobody cared until people started doing stupid stuff.
You know it's not really even elected officials doing this. It's wealthy elitists that are pushing an agenda to gain control over all land plant animals minerals and even humans.😊
The whole "invasive species" thing is a bit daft, though. A large part of the species on this planet were an "invasive species" at some point. Whether they got to an island via a piece of driftwood, flight or a manmade boat doesn't really matter. And environments are in a state of constant change anyway. Species come, species go. Evolution never stops. Some species evolve into other species, adapt to new predators or go extinct. That's nature. It's kind of ridiculous and typical human hybris for us to say that some species is "invasive" and doesn't belong in a certain place. Maybe we should all move back to Africa where we evolved because we clearly have no right to be anywhere else :D
Forty years ago, the area in Orlando these fish farms are located were vacant land all around. I remember spending my honeymoon at Disney World in the late 70's, staying at at Quality Inn on International Blvd. There was absolutely NOTHING on that Blvd. between the two hotels (there was a Quality in at each end and nothing in-between). Farmers were selling oranges at the side of the road that they brought over in their trucks directly from the farms. Disney World was not developed either, just the Magic Kingdom, and four hotels at the main intersection at the time in the park, one traffic light - No Epcot, No MGM, nothing else. Now, with the explosion of development over the last several decades, the pressure is on to exploit the situation and push the fish farms out.
Florida is a petri dish for tropical animals and gets hit by hurricanes regularly. Breeding tropical fish in the open in Florida should look like a stupid idea to anybody who cares about Florida's wildlife. Those aren't as splashy as all the anacondas and pythons in the swamps, but not much better....
@@rcort4864 You'd think that but I've seen pacus that are being fished in northern lakes and waterways. Nobody thought they would be able to survive but they do.
🙏 My heart goes out to all involved in the ethical breeding & collecting of fish who are impacted by this. LRB❤ TGOE❤ & so many more- my heart and prayers are with you. 🙏
@@davidliming9419 oh my god this is what constitutes a fascist? you can have my guns Joe but please dont take away my tropical fish Ron I need them to fight off the fascist regime, what a Buffon I have seen the defamation of the tropical fish in the Florida keys for the past 30 years there is no need to take these fish other than for vanity
@@davidliming9419 orrrr, say it with me now, "Florida has a MASSIVE invasive species issue." The issue is not fake. Between Lionfish, Mayan Cichlids, Flower Horns, Iguanas, Pythons, etc, they have a real problem to deal with. One of the primary causes on the marine side is negligent pet owners and storms releasing fish. This is something that would have to pass through the government process. If it succeeds, that is how governments work. Same with the 2nd amendment. There is a process in place to repeal that. If that process succeeded, that is how governments are supposed to work. I don't for a minute believe any of this legislation will actually work given they are about 50 or so years late to the party. But, governments of any stripe or color tend to be pretty crappy at actually being governments these days. I am also pretty sure you have no idea what Fascism really is if you believe De Santis is Fascist. People can have any amount of issues with him and his policies without throwing around labels that don't match.
I saw something about this a couple months ago. It will be nationwide before it's done. I have 7 tank's & this is really sad for those who are responsible fish owner's.
thats the problem there are to many irresponsible fish owners and now we have an invasive lion fish problem and other invasive animals in the south of Florida I am for this 100%
@scott1637 so I'm guessing that since Florida also has alot of really horrible, neglectful parents they should ban children being born? That's PETA bs... one animal being neglected out weighs thousands being kept well? PETA has done a good job of making people who THINK they are "animal lovers" into the ultimate a imagined haters!
@@scott1637 clown knife fish have pretty much taken over and they're much bigger than the lion fish. There's a guy who goes and nets the ponds and waterways and it looks like he's pulling from the Amazon with all the exotic fish in even drain reservoirs. It's really sad.
Watching from California. There are many in the aqua/terra hobby here . I stand with you out there in Florida. I also have some Killi . I can't believe this is happening it makes me sick. I'm pissed off..
If the whitelist includes only the all-original and natural breeds of fish and animals that can be seen in wild, then the bill actually makes sense. Only second is the backing up of the developers and the rich because of the land-grab opportunity. Well, maybe that's first, idk.. there's still money involved, of course. But I find the bill or proposal or whatever it is, ok, for what it's worth. Who benefits in keeping the poor bubble-eyed gold fishes? Yes, the massive farms that also cull thousands that do not pass the "standard' for profit. They are bred only to be miserable! Sold because the young find them cute. From the natural streamlined Crucian Carp to these egg-shaped fancies that can't even swim properly, live and die miserably in bare tanks! They are very sickly and do not live long. There's even this new craze about the fancy snakeheads, which are very invasive! We'll get dumbo ears and double tails and a lot more mutations of it very soon, I'm sure! That's how we got the bettas that we see today. Different from the original breed from the wild. If you advocate for these species of fish to stay alive because they are living creatures, AND save the natural ones from extinction, then you are fine. I guess keep them alive while you have them. That's ethical. But if you only advocate for them to stay in the hobby/industry, breed them to miserable conditions and make profit then that's not ethical.
Florida is far from the freedom state. We have had an incredible amount of laws past under our current government that tells us we can't do something. It's really quite baffling that people think that Florida is freedom.
Yes there has likely been problems with unregulated breeding in waters that connect to public water. There should be more control on what facilities are permitted to conduct aquaculture. Once a containment plan is approved and reasonable, the species reared is irrelevant. Too much government regulation in area's unneeded and not enough in other areas
That's impossible. The US sucks at enforcing such regulation and Florida is a petri dish for tropical species. You just can't breed fish in the open there. In many senses, the horse is out of the barn already, but really, further damage should be prevented. I can understand where this is coming from, even though it is too late and maybe it is going too far.
I did, after 32 years. Now am in MD. Better in some respects. Worse in others. For the most part no effective difference. BUT it is my ancestral home. So there's that!
@@trocha419 yes, everyone is in a rush to enjoy your radioactive roads. Fyi Red States rely on welfare from Blue States, you're little more than a hate filled slogan parrot 🦜
As much as I'd like to blame politicians for sticking their noses in where it doesn't belong, Florida is unique case. Native Floridian species of birds, reptiles, fish, so on, currently face extinction due to careless pet owners. Whether it's the foreign, South American, snakes & lizards that now dominate the Everglade/tropical areas or the non-native African & South American cichlids that can be found in any freshwater lake or pond displacing native species. Florida does have a major wildlife issue on its hands stemming from non-native, invasive species that all originate from pet stores. Because the people can't be trusted to be responsible owners, it's the pet shops & breeders that will suffer. I suspect even responsible large snake owners have had them escape on them. I know my iguana I had as a teenager always did. Here in Massachusetts if a reptile gets out of cage it turns up under the dryer machine or dies eventually if it gets outside. The same a with tropical fish if released in local pond here. That is just not the case in FL for better or worse.
Substantial research indicates this popular nostrum is completely false. the ability of invasive species to achieve stability is a very percentage of escaped species. Those that do achieve stability are able to do so because they take advantage of an unused niche. I OW everything you just saidf is proven absolutely false.
Dandelions are 'non native' species too, good luck shutting the barn door after the cows are out. Nativist arguments do not sway me from being in favor of biodiversity. I can't bomb my attic because the starlings force their way through the soffit; and if their ancestors were not native to this land, well, neither are most of us. We can send boy scouts to tear the invasive Japanese honeysuckle from the forest (and I turned many an African tulip tree in PR to charcoal), but there are limits to what we can do without going crazy on the environment. It is what it is. Bounties on boas etc (the iguana meat is as prized in. Japan as kudzu root); make it profitable, like the boars in Alabama being turned to dog food, that's how to gain some measure of control- if we can do it to a passenger pigeon 🙄 we can probably socially engineer a craze for boa skin handbags (or whatever). There's no simple solutions, and committees and legislators composed of non-biologists are not equipped to discuss them, let alone mandate them. (It sure was simple to muck things up though, aye? A shame. Well, a fifty cent bounty on carp got all them out of Big Bear Lake when I was a kid- it can be done, without banning the trade of goldfish).
Cat owners are, in the most part, irresponsible because they let their cat free roaming. It's bad for the ecosystem and it's not gonna help the state of Florida. It's kinda cool that the legislators are starting to fight against invasive tropical species, but why not also including cats? They count as a huge invasive species and no other countries fight against them (except NZ and Australia for obvious reasons). I believe cats are in the top 3 in the invasive species list.
@@blackbird3456 The issue with domestic cats is that they should be kept indoors. So, they are not killing the native bird & small animal populations. I've never heard of domestic cats posing a serious threat to any ecosystem as in the case of non-native, invasive, species stemming from the pet population in FL.
@@FatherFish Yet you still seem to not understand why people are making the comment about how many have established themselves in the waterways. You keep trying to minimize it. A comment that those that are fighting this should be making to the authorities to try to stop this as it is good common sense.
I've had a clown pleco in a tank for 16 years, he's still the size of my thumb. All i do to feed him is put a healthy slice of sweet potato in the tank with a little fork stuck in it to keep it down, once a week. He has had other tank buddies, even a pair of reproducing fancy goldfish, all gone now. He has the tank how he likes, it seems. We gave him a black wine glass to live in, he usually sits with his nose out so he can see what we are doing. Did you know the pleco can change the brightness of their skin. When he is in the light, during tank cleaning time, he changes from the colour of sweet potato flesh to the colour of sweet potato skin. He comes out of his cave when she calls his name, DumDum.
with that being said, you guys need to move from 'hobby' fish breeders into a fish species conservation program. is there any state that stil has a gov't science program to tap into? you might find your conscience pushes you to leave your failed state, start looking for a safe haven now.
This... So much horrible stuff. I lived in Florida for some of high school years and years ago. That was hard enough, but cannot imagine how more messed up I'd be living down there during that vulnerable time as a trans person with the legislate doing so much harm.... May not have have survived. That Florida Governor may run for president is really scary -- imagine how much harm that'll do to all aspects of life :x (While some don't want to deal with politics, everyone is effected by politics everyday as effects jobs/livehood/etc. so much).
Not surprised , Florida has some major issues with invasive species Pythons , iguanas, wild pigs to name a few. I’m a fish keeper because I admire nature and am fascinated by it. That said the pet trade often harms nature.
@@hefoxed Oh you blame Desantis for cracking down on the tropical fish industry? Wow, I guess simplifying such a complicated issue to blame on the “other” party is the only way for some small minds to process it.
@@IronPsyde He's the leader.. it's also all those that support him, it's a cultural of ignorance and fear mongering. But you're probably too "small minded" to get this... considering you immediately go to insulting people based off a few points.
Floridans are "blessed" because if they want tropical fish, they can just go to nearest ditch or canal, put some traps and swing net couple times, and youll probably get what you want eventually. There's this guy, "Bass fishing productions" he's caught every imaginable aquarium fish out there.
Releasing invasive tropical fish there has been destroying the local ecosystem for years, if it doesnt stop it might have really serious repercussions.
@@ihatemyneighbour226 Thats why catching them like that guy does is good for environment, tho I doubt it'll have any impact. Many floridan fish enthusiasts would need to do the same. Good thing is that its actually helluva fun. On the other side, I'll never understand why do people release invasive aquarium fish into wild instead of giving them away to friend or nearest fish shop. I guess theese people are braindead idiots who dont understand the bad impact they are doing on environment. Honestly Im also not surprised why such bill is being considered... :C
If there is a problem with invasive animals , it stays , no matter if animals are banned or not . That ban wouldn't affect the already existing populations . They could rather do something like a register , where the origin of a fish and the buyer is listed . If the hobbyist sells that fish or it dies , it can be registered . That way they can control , if someone releases a fish to the wild .
Where I live there is a sign asking locals to report any invasive terrestrial plant species. I estimate that only about 60% of the plants within sight of this sign are natives. 40% are introduced already. I laugh every time I drive past this sign. I think I can spot about 10 invasives just where this sign is. These aquarium laws are a similar waste of time and will acheive almost nothing. Like trying to stop the tide with a spoon. The horse bolted about 100 years ago. They want to prosecute 5 year olds meanwhile non-natives are breeding and growing outside their bedroom window. I manage feral and non-native species. It is a losing battle. Every dog and cat is a feral animal fully endorsed and supported by our authorities. We need perspective. Within 500m of this sign is one of the worst infestations of an invasive plant species I have seen on land managed by the local council. This weed would be on the top ten hit list. What a laugh. They do not do anything about it but expects us to.
This is sort of where I fall. Seems like a waste of time and money just to "appear" to be doing something about the invasive species issues. I think they know it is too late to do anything about it, but people demand that something be done. So they just do anything that might look like a plan of attack.
I've been buying equipment to gather together then to purchase my tropical fish, if this law is passed, I don't know where I can buy them and it won't be allowed to be shipped, why is this happening?
floridians were warned not to vote right wing..... they were told they will come for your fun thing next..... in trying to stop others having fun they now realise thier fun is next.... but thats what happens when you vote for parties who policies are about hurting others rather than helping themselves .... but they only learning it group group by group so I doubt they will even realise until its their door being knocked on.....
@justinneuroth1371 except the left control nothing in florida so you cannot blame the left...... so like I said the extreme right controls all policy in florida for quite some time now
If you believe this is right wing you are badly deluded. This is straight out of a Marxist playbook. It is based on government control and destruction of undesirabole economies. Think Biden.
@@FatherFish With all due respect, your attitude here is exactly why this situation is happening. Florida's government is under the iron fist of Desantis.
After decades of politicians ignoring environmental issues, they are now trending. Every one of them is desperate for their little green tick. This means for us the sledge hammer legislation approach on any issue complex of not. And with encouragement from ever more neurotic scientific community this kind of thing will only get worse. Good luck to all those whose lively hood hangs in the balance. au
I just looked it up there’s over 1800 species of tropical fish and I’m sure the United States imports a lot of them. This will be horrible for people that are in the business of selling tropical fish.
@@FatherFish wow I didn’t know that. Have you ever wondered why people and government don’t do what the people put them there for. The only thing it seems that they do is pass laws that benefit them and hurt the people.
Importing and selling fish is an industry, yes, but not significant in terms of employment. That's sort of the weakest argument against these regulations. Nobody owes you a job "in the hobby".
@@Andreas-gh6is i’m not so much talking about hurting employment because a lot of these people in the aquatic business, have small shops, and don’t employee a lot of people. Unless you’re somebody like Jack Watley discus. What I was talking about is if they can’t get certain types of fish, certain types of species. Those mom and pop places might end up closing down. First of all, let’s get one thing straight all these laws that are getting pass, and Florida is doing nothing to help the average person it’s just to show you how much power they have power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely
@@FatherFish and now we have an invasive species problem in Florida thanks to your industry I am 100% behind this and as John Kerry said go find other work
I hope that don't happen, but if it does the northern States can be good for breeding or raising Tropical fish in spite of the cold. In fact, in places like Minnesota, Michigan, and Wisconsin it gets so cold the fish would die in the wild, so even though Tilapia is considered an invasive species, you can farm them up here with very little regulation. If one were to raise animals that could live up here, then that would be a different story. Like I said, I hope Florida don't shut down that industry there, but up here, I wouldn't even need an aquaculture permit to raise, or farm anything that can't live in the wild. so there is hope even if things go bad there.
The real danger is other state Wildlife regulatory agencies follow the lead of Florida. It would not be long before Rubio's Lacy Act returns with a vengeance.
That's tilapia. Your not going to be heating massive spawning pools for tropical fish up north without obscene heating costs for your greenhouses that you'd have to keep the pools in.
@@existinginaspace8347 You don't think Tilapia are a cold water fish do you? The reason I mentioned them in the first place is cause they are farmed here, and they are Tropical fish, the same as Discus, or African cichlids. In Fact Tilapia are a cichlid species that can be bred in a tank, and then grown out in tanks. In fact breeding them is much the same as other cichlids. While it is ideal to keep the industry in Florida, there is hope that legislators will be less likely to ban Tropical fish farming in the north because there is little or no environmental risk. Now to your point about heating...there are ways to keep those heating costs low. You'd have to be creative though, it's clearly being done with an edible tropical fish, no reason it can't be done with pets. Worse case, maybe it just means hobbyists will have better opportunities to sell to fish stores. they make most of their money on equipment anyway.
I do not know all the specifics or have the answers to this but I do know whenever things like this do get addressed they go way overboard on the regulations. They never meet in the middle and go from there! They should start in the middle so it doesn't kill anyone financially and expand or decrease regs from there after they do their assessments. You just can't kill an industry with thousands of jobs people are depending on that income! Hopefully they take some of this into consideration instead of just banning every damn thing!
I can see why they want to do this, but at the same time, I also see where it'll make things WORSE and not better all around. It also worries me cause it really feels like when one state succeeds at passing or creating a new law that is literally overkill and doesn't help anyone but them(as the politicians see profits from this) then these laws start spreading like a disease to a lot of other states because they know they can get away with it
We aren't supposed to be living in a country where we have to ask the king for permission. The environment is a convenient excuse to seize additional power.
@@evil1by1 this is the hill your willing to die on fugitively speaking sorry there is no purpose for taking these creatures from the sea other than having a trophy in your living room and now we have a problem with lion fish, pythons, iguanas, anaconda, and water monitors in our state and the defamation of sea life
the more things they make illegal, the more rights they take away, the bigger the profits at the prisons their buddies run...florida is broken, and the GOP dream of less government is an easy goal. For once they take away all your rights, you need less government to manage you. A corrupt police force, a corrupt justice system, and you become a state owned slave for owning a fish that isn't in their colouring book.
Seems to be a lot of people who want the exotic pet trade eliminated. I understand Florida’s plight with all the non native species killing off the native flora and fauna but why should the people in states that these things can’t live have to suffer because of people like Rubio doesn’t want them around
Not all fish keepers, but alot of them are preserving dying echo systems. The pet trade could be so important for conservation wether that's breeding projects or teaching people. If it wasnt for keeping animals I would never have developed it as an interest and I'm grateful I have that interest now. The pet trade shouldnt be demonized it should be celebrated for the work it has done. Again not all pet keepers are good keepers but the ones that are have had a hug impact on what we know about these animals
Absolutely true. The very best control on the fish and small animal trade would be to set basic standards of care for the retail trade. Senator Rubio has once again proposed federal legislation to ban every animal that is traded in relatively small quantities from being exported. We remain stuck with goldfish, giant plecostomus, and pacu but me not have the very animals we are committed to protect from extinction. His ignorance is appalling.
No. I do not think the issue is responsible pet owner behaviour. It is the requirement that government support all aspects of the Florida economy rather than only the interests of developers.
@@FatherFish but you skipped my point being that Florida is hit hard by invasive species being released by pet owners into its ecosystem. it costs your economy millions trying to keep on top of it.
Goldfish are mostly bred to suffer. Anything but the wildtype body shape should be banned to breed, and nobody who loves these animals should breed or buy them that way out of their own common sense. Most of these forms can't swim right and the deformities cause all sorts of trouble for them. Also, when raising them, only a small fraction can survive to adulthood and most have to be culled just from deformities too great.
@Andreas And there's an entire community of us despite that. But you're correct. The inbreeding and crazy unnatural feeding many people push and whatnot has gotten out of hand and causes a lot of issues.
As long as people keep buying large species of fish and reptiles and releasing them I think it makes sense. If you've never raised a snake, lizard, or fish than maybe you shouldn't start with one gets massive. If you want a large species than maybe you should apply for a permit and part of it would be do you have the skill and space to raise that animal to full size.
@@FatherFish don’t,you may be able to have any fish you want,but every other right will be removed,our governor is a nut case too! If we could leave,we would!
The fact is that your desire to keep an animal does not trump the risks to the animals due to over collection, and the risk to the Florida environment due to the introduction of invasive species. I completely understand your frustration given the authority doing this is the same one that is responsible for the careless introduction of non native species. I think there's a salient point to be made about politics here. This is what happens when you appoint politicians who are only interested in making money. And we all know what party is to blame here.
@@FatherFish It seems like there are real concerns here - you make excellent points about the protection of endangered species. However, I would ask you to really think about your lumping of both parties together. I'm not saying one is perfect by any means - but one party clearly denies any human risk to the environment, and the other doesn't. I think, if you're going to be fair, the best chance of changing the situation for the better is with the party with the more progressive members.
Imagine the people that have been in this for decades imagine being told guess what you’re out of business. I’d like to see the list of tropical fish that have been approved. Imagine if you couldn’t get safer instance like discus that would suck
Let's see. hmmm. Honey bees, roses, dogs, cats, wheat, bananas, migrating birds, whales, every microbe, the list goes on. There is no living thing that is not invasive.
The farmers made a convincing case before the commissioners. They agreed to go back to the drawing board and reconsider. This can mean anything. It is not likely to mean an admission that all species desired by the industry will be permitted.
It's a shame; as long as there is a significant amount of money to be made, someone will do it legally or illegally. Fish farming should not be limited; it is the way to prevent tropical fish from being removed from their native environment because it drives prices down, disincentivizing poachers.
A nive sentiment but the reality is there are tiny biotopes with unique species being destroyed daily. Removing these species is often the only way to protect them.
@@FatherFish That is exactly what I am saying. The only reasons these fish get destroyed are habitat loss/degradation, invasive predators, or illegal poaching. If the fish farms can sell the fish at low prices, then the poachers cannot get much compensation for their work and risk by breaking the law. Fish farms can not only save native fish populations, but also disincentivize poachers from selling them when laws that prosecute poachers are enforced.
Moving to the more humid/mild weather of Texas might help with fish breeders. I’m angry so many Californians are moving to Texas and kind of ruining it. Stop it Californians! Once you leave Cali, develop an understanding that Texas is better because it doesn’t have the asinine laws you are familiar with. Or stay in Cali.
Marinas arent complete dead zones, grey Mullet thrives in marinas eating bits out of the sewage from boats and rubbish that humans throw in to the sea. Mussels and barnacles similarly coat the hulls of boats and the piers and pontoons, and I've seen crabs crawling around under pontoons too.
@@giftofthewild6665 the marina dead zone is certainly nothing close to the brilliant, viable, vital ALIVE zone the waterway was PRIOR to becoming a marina!
I am an aquarium enthusiast but that doesn't mean I'm going to deny the harm that's being done in Florida by invasive species. Clown Knife fish have taken over many of the waterways and lakes in Florida and they are a top tier predator species. I've watched many videos of guys netting drain ditches and waterways in Florida and pulling up so many exotic species you'd think he's in the Amazon. I get the feeling this is turning into just another Nimby situation (Not in my backyard). People want to take care of nature and stop the bad actors who actually do dump fish or to stop the accidents that have and do happen from breeders that flood the lakes but once they see it affects them they get outraged. If you have solutions, go and offer them. Don't just write letters of outrage and complain about it. Denying the problem just because it affects your hobby is not a good look and it's hypocritical.
The biggest single problem invasive is the jewel cichlid. It is profoundly predacious of small natives. It is in fact rare to find clown knives or other major predators in Florida waters. Most, like oscars, have a limited range and are a niche fish that is not impacting native fisheries.
@@FatherFish Have you not seen the videos of the guys who had fished the clown knife fish and had what looked like at least 50 in their truck? They're found in a few lakes but they're prolific. Other tropicals are easily found as well. Either way it's happened and containment breeches of breeding facilities and idiotic "fishkeepers" are to blame. This bill didn't just come out of thin air.
@@WindsofChange no, I’m just using those big dogs as examples, I didn’t mean to scare anyone, sorry but I’d watch this senator over there, the Lacy’s Act guy
@@WindsofChange that or they will force everyone to wear a mask that has a slot in it and if you don’t put a dollar in it each hour it will shut off and you won’t be able to breath. The people ought to ban all the politicians we have now and start over with smart ones
Whats the deal with Florida and animals? Its supposed to be the "free" place, but why are they cracking down on pet trades so hard? Theyve gone nuts with reptiles. Is Desantis on board with this?
I have to say good. I was in the saltwater hobby for over a decade. I stopped because I felt like I was encouraging those who cared less, that caused massive amounts of fish/coral deaths.
as someone who has seen the decline in tropical fish and the incline in lion fish and other invasive animals in the Florida keys for the last 30 years I find there is no need to take a animal from the sea unless you intend to eat it. this industry has no purpose other than to provide trophies for your living room
I feel like many people still in the aquarium hobby are concerned with that issue as well, which is why so many work to breed these organisms in captivity. This law would also make that process illegal in Florida, which is one of the primary locations where this is done in the United States. Without those facilities, larger pet shops in other states will likely turn to wild caught alternatives, which will dramatically increase the animal welfare issues you’re concerned about. So I’m curious, what about this is good exactly? Not trying to argue, just looking for your perspective.
@@earthtamerronan6352 Agree with your assessment. There is nothing good about t his. Now Rubio has resubmitted his obscenity amendment to the Lacey Act that will ban any new or limited in number species from import. That guarantees the extinction of countless species of fish., These are evil people seeking to do destruction.
@@scott1637 These are Tropical Fresh water farms we are talking about. For those who are skilled enough to breed salt water you are not doing that outside for many reasons.
Hi Father Fish, was hoping I could get your advice on how to make a severum tank work according to your food web fishkeeping philosophy. Severums love to eat and unground aquarium plants.
@FatherFish I am in the UK, so we have issues importing a large number of the rarer stuff, but I believe it's down to availability. I just hope you guys can still enjoy the hobby. I hate that its greed and a government with no idea what they are doing, which is causing anxiety about the hobby in florida.
Reptiles I totally get, we are infested with snakes that are not natural to Florida’s this goes for reptiles. The Asia carp, snakehead, and many aquarium fish have been released into Florida waters, check you tubers catching them in canals or ponds, so I get it. I’m a fish hobbyist myself but I can understand why they want to pass this law.
Except. That is not why they want to ban everything. All species are currently investigated for their danger as invasives. The danger of new species is negligible. This is about creating a mono economy of development.
@@FatherFish Nothing wrong with investigating all species of fish. Depending on locale, even Guppies and similarly sized fish have become a problem. The idea to ban fish species by default on its own really isn't stupid for the particularly situation of Florida and the demonstrated irresponsibility of its inhabitants.
@@Andreas-gh6is Bruz, do you honestly think Florida will have someone do a deep dive investigation on every possible fish species one can keep in a tank? No. They won't.
People will just import the fish through other ports . It will hurt people in the south but I'm quite sure New York will soon follow suit with a similar law.
agreed. At the hearing where industry leaders spoke the Commissioners claimed they had no idea the industry is as large and well regulated as it is. IOW they were prepared to regulate a vast industry out of business with absolute ignorance as their guide.
Its irresponsible for fish growers to grow exotic species that can easily escape when there is an inevitable flood - because flooding will happen. If they can grow the fish in secure areas that can't escape during hurricanes and flooding, then that's fine. There are many streams and ponds in FL now that are just filled with exotic fish. The same applies to those exotic reptiles that people keep on releasing into the Everglades and such.
You have been duped by a sensationalist media. Nowhere in Florida are invasives destroying native populations except the pythons in FL where matters are coming under control.
making thing illegal maybe the point, history teaches that lots of laws are made to make people criminals and take their rights away, and i respect everyone the spoke at the fwc meeting, they did a great job
Florida is the best state in the union for breeding exotics and farming fish. I get theh want strip malls and condos but that doesnt make for a diverse economy. Now besides that, do they honestly think taking away access to the fish farms will stop people from doing it? No of course not. The exact same type of landgrabs are happening to short tracks all over the US. We loose our tracks and the pnes leftover wont let our cars on. So we race on thw streets and highways. Were not going to just... Not race. It will happen. Source experience. The same thing will happen with fish farms in Florida. Guaranteed
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It’s amazing to me that we are actually having this conversation in America this country politicians have lost their way and understanding of the public they serve
The revolution is never completely won. The forces of authoritarian government still rebel against our charter and deny we are a free people. There are today far too many among us who choose the chains of slavery over the dangers of freedom.
@@FatherFish *FREEDOM #1* Because it's utmost important to look after #1 no matter the cost.
@@FatherFish That kind of talk was actually spear-headed by slaveholders in the early US who were annoyed at getting taxed. They never intended that freedom to extend to their slaves or women, of course.
While I agree that FL is the epicenter regarding the fight on invasive species. I believe the politicians took the easy way out on this. They can't go after the snake breeders without also going after the other exotic breeders (fish or otherwise). I mean did they even talk to environmental scientists. There had to be a more common sense approach. All this is going to do is make the lawyers happy.
Not saying I agree with the bill but there are some huge aquarium fish that have established themselves in the Florida lakes and waterways as well. The aquarium breeders are not just collateral damage. They are also at the center of this as well. Look up the clown knife fish that are pretty much beyond being able to be wiped out and they're top tier predators.
Ok, this is starting to scare me! The government has put their foot in almost every door of hobbyists! I am a fish keeper and love my 2 large tanks. I'm not a breeder nor do I have an entire fish room, I am also an RC enthusiast that flies planes, drones and helicopters, and races rc stadium trucks and boats, and I also am into motorsports and help my brother with his race car.... the government has stuck their foot in every door I mentioned! The race car crap is the worst of the 3 with bans being put on cars and diesel trucks. The rc industry is being attacked because there are too many Karen's in the wild and u can't fly a park flyer airplane without someone losing their minds about being filmed, even tho there are no cameras on most rc planes, and the drones are being attacked as well..... now the fish hobbyist industry. Doesn't the government realize that without the Aquariast hobby, there would be alot more extinct species!?
I'm so over our government sticking their noses in where they don't belong. I remember going to an rc flying field as a kid, and no one complained. I remember bringing my rc plane out to a park in 1983 and all the people there were intrigued and fascinated. I feel sorry for our kids and grandkids growing up now. Fun is becoming illegal
wow. your hobbies match perfectly with mine. I am a little upset about my drones. Starting September I am only flying my mini2 until RID modules start coming out. That or I just wont comply with the FAA. But likely the first.
Yeah. I guess everyone who's serious with the fishkeeping hobby is also for protecting the environment.
The thing is that so many people who want to protect the environment lose track of the big picture and the whole thing goes from reasonable ( = with good reason ) to ideological and fanatical.
I'm here in Germany and a lot of the people who voted for the Green party last election now regret it.
This party has transformed into a bit of a "Green fascist" and is trying to regulate the hell out of everything and everyone.
Recently spoke to my neighbor who voted for them during the last election and he said he regretted it deeply and that it starts to feel like a "Green Dictatorship"...
Any change, any law, regulation, whatever aimed at protecting the environment has to be weighed against the public's freedoms.
If you don't take the people's wishes and needs into consideration you'll face the harshest backlash you've ever seen.
And what do we get then?
I mean, I do want to see the environment protected. I do want to see emmissions reduced. But does this has to be at the cost of "the little man" every single time?
No, it doesn't. Especially since the biggest polluter is the big industry. Instead of wasting time, money and resources regulating all the little details, they should start where it makes the biggest difference.
But they don't do that because they're cowards afraid to go up against the big corporations. So they keep picking on the little guy. Because he can't fight back. Or so they think.
Lol. Actions have consequences people. Should have stopped rolling coal and encouraging it (diesels), should have stopped releasing animals into the wild (fish keepers and breeders alike. Yall know you get bad hurricanes down there) drones am I less familiar with, but I have seen people breaking laws with em on youtube. Nobody cared until people started doing stupid stuff.
You know it's not really even elected officials doing this. It's wealthy elitists that are pushing an agenda to gain control over all land plant animals minerals and even humans.😊
The opposite of govt is Corporations
Keep parroting their slogans tho
We definitely need to get the invasive species under control in this state.
Yes we need to run the Ivey league carpetbagging puddin finger fascist orange minime governor out of the state.
The whole "invasive species" thing is a bit daft, though.
A large part of the species on this planet were an "invasive species" at some point.
Whether they got to an island via a piece of driftwood, flight or a manmade boat doesn't really matter.
And environments are in a state of constant change anyway. Species come, species go.
Evolution never stops. Some species evolve into other species, adapt to new predators or go extinct.
That's nature.
It's kind of ridiculous and typical human hybris for us to say that some species is "invasive" and doesn't belong in a certain place.
Maybe we should all move back to Africa where we evolved because we clearly have no right to be anywhere else :D
@@barbarusbloodshed6347 remove the humans
@@steventodd5678 you realize your a human right
@@steventodd5678 take the lead.
Forty years ago, the area in Orlando these fish farms are located were vacant land all around. I remember spending my honeymoon at Disney World in the late 70's, staying at at Quality Inn on International Blvd. There was absolutely NOTHING on that Blvd. between the two hotels (there was a Quality in at each end and nothing in-between). Farmers were selling oranges at the side of the road that they brought over in their trucks directly from the farms. Disney World was not developed either, just the Magic Kingdom, and four hotels at the main intersection at the time in the park, one traffic light - No Epcot, No MGM, nothing else. Now, with the explosion of development over the last several decades, the pressure is on to exploit the situation and push the fish farms out.
The pet industry can not be exploited by developers. Florida, for many, is the land of bulldoze and build.
Florida is a petri dish for tropical animals and gets hit by hurricanes regularly. Breeding tropical fish in the open in Florida should look like a stupid idea to anybody who cares about Florida's wildlife. Those aren't as splashy as all the anacondas and pythons in the swamps, but not much better....
@@Andreas-gh6is I get ya. I live up north where tropical stuff won't survive in the wild, not through the winter, anyway. :)
@@rcort4864 You'd think that but I've seen pacus that are being fished in northern lakes and waterways. Nobody thought they would be able to survive but they do.
🙏 My heart goes out to all involved in the ethical breeding & collecting of fish who are impacted by this.
LRB❤ TGOE❤ & so many more- my heart and prayers are with you. 🙏
Bless you Sghetti
The Florida government is really getting crazy
You didn't protest when they came for abortion rights or transsexuals.... Now they are coming for your fish.
This what happens in a Fascist State. The Governor is a full blown fascist.
@@davidliming9419 oh my god this is what constitutes a fascist? you can have my guns Joe but please dont take away my tropical fish Ron I need them to fight off the fascist regime, what a Buffon I have seen the defamation of the tropical fish in the Florida keys for the past 30 years there is no need to take these fish other than for vanity
@@davidliming9419 orrrr, say it with me now, "Florida has a MASSIVE invasive species issue." The issue is not fake. Between Lionfish, Mayan Cichlids, Flower Horns, Iguanas, Pythons, etc, they have a real problem to deal with. One of the primary causes on the marine side is negligent pet owners and storms releasing fish. This is something that would have to pass through the government process. If it succeeds, that is how governments work. Same with the 2nd amendment. There is a process in place to repeal that. If that process succeeded, that is how governments are supposed to work. I don't for a minute believe any of this legislation will actually work given they are about 50 or so years late to the party. But, governments of any stripe or color tend to be pretty crappy at actually being governments these days.
I am also pretty sure you have no idea what Fascism really is if you believe De Santis is Fascist. People can have any amount of issues with him and his policies without throwing around labels that don't match.
@@davidliming9419 From your perspective maybe.
I saw something about this a couple months ago. It will be nationwide before it's done. I have 7 tank's & this is really sad for those who are responsible fish owner's.
thats the problem there are to many irresponsible fish owners and now we have an invasive lion fish problem and other invasive animals in the south of Florida I am for this 100%
@scott1637 so I'm guessing that since Florida also has alot of really horrible, neglectful parents they should ban children being born? That's PETA bs... one animal being neglected out weighs thousands being kept well?
PETA has done a good job of making people who THINK they are "animal lovers" into the ultimate a imagined haters!
@@scott1637 clown knife fish have pretty much taken over and they're much bigger than the lion fish. There's a guy who goes and nets the ponds and waterways and it looks like he's pulling from the Amazon with all the exotic fish in even drain reservoirs. It's really sad.
@@scott1637 one idiot always ruins it for the rest. thats why florida wants to get rid of everything
Watching from California. There are many in the aqua/terra hobby here . I stand with you out there in Florida. I also have some Killi . I can't believe this is happening it makes me sick. I'm pissed off..
These are fools who understand nothing.
california likely next
How could this being happining in the Freedom State of Florida?
And this is how a black market is created with a HUGE inflated profits and an uptick in trade. :D
True!
If the whitelist includes only the all-original and natural breeds of fish and animals that can be seen in wild, then the bill actually makes sense. Only second is the backing up of the developers and the rich because of the land-grab opportunity. Well, maybe that's first, idk.. there's still money involved, of course. But I find the bill or proposal or whatever it is, ok, for what it's worth.
Who benefits in keeping the poor bubble-eyed gold fishes? Yes, the massive farms that also cull thousands that do not pass the "standard' for profit. They are bred only to be miserable! Sold because the young find them cute. From the natural streamlined Crucian Carp to these egg-shaped fancies that can't even swim properly, live and die miserably in bare tanks! They are very sickly and do not live long.
There's even this new craze about the fancy snakeheads, which are very invasive! We'll get dumbo ears and double tails and a lot more mutations of it very soon, I'm sure! That's how we got the bettas that we see today. Different from the original breed from the wild.
If you advocate for these species of fish to stay alive because they are living creatures, AND save the natural ones from extinction, then you are fine. I guess keep them alive while you have them. That's ethical. But if you only advocate for them to stay in the hobby/industry, breed them to miserable conditions and make profit then that's not ethical.
Your personal aesthetic standards are not grounds for determining much of anything.
wow thats nuts. Especially considering that Florida is supposed to be the 'freedom' state.
Florida is far from the freedom state. We have had an incredible amount of laws past under our current government that tells us we can't do something. It's really quite baffling that people think that Florida is freedom.
It’s all about the $$$. Politicians know who their donators. Unfortunately regular every day folks get the shitty end of the stick
Amen brother.
Yes there has likely been problems with unregulated breeding in waters that connect to public water. There should be more control on what facilities are permitted to conduct aquaculture. Once a containment plan is approved and reasonable, the species reared is irrelevant. Too much government regulation in area's unneeded and not enough in other areas
Hurricane escapees
Yeah keeping nonnative aquatic species in areas which regularly flood like that is a bit irresponsible.
That's impossible. The US sucks at enforcing such regulation and Florida is a petri dish for tropical species. You just can't breed fish in the open there. In many senses, the horse is out of the barn already, but really, further damage should be prevented. I can understand where this is coming from, even though it is too late and maybe it is going too far.
@@Kraus- unfortunately it's not viable to breed them in colder climate areas that don't flood.
Dangerous species should be banned, if not you lose all of them
I don’t know how to describe how infuriating this is
Leave Florida!! I did. Best decision of my life!
I did, after 32 years. Now am in MD. Better in some respects. Worse in others. For the most part no effective difference. BUT it is my ancestral home. So there's that!
@@FatherFish Wow. Didnt realize that you were now located in MD. Do you have a store opened? I’m near Annapolis.
Yes please leave. Everyone. Florida is getting too crowded from all the people leaving Dem ran states and cities.
@@trocha419 yes, everyone is in a rush to enjoy your radioactive roads. Fyi Red States rely on welfare from Blue States, you're little more than a hate filled slogan parrot 🦜
instead of shutting down the Aquarium trade
omg i don't know what to say here ...
we're the ones
that care more about the animals
than anyone else
They are not doing it because they care about the animals. They are doing it because they will be able to buy farmland cheap.
That's a lie or this wouldn't be happening.
@FatherFish, they can take it they don't need to buy it.
As much as I'd like to blame politicians for sticking their noses in where it doesn't belong, Florida is unique case. Native Floridian species of birds, reptiles, fish, so on, currently face extinction due to careless pet owners. Whether it's the foreign, South American, snakes & lizards that now dominate the Everglade/tropical areas or the non-native African & South American cichlids that can be found in any freshwater lake or pond displacing native species. Florida does have a major wildlife issue on its hands stemming from non-native, invasive species that all originate from pet stores. Because the people can't be trusted to be responsible owners, it's the pet shops & breeders that will suffer. I suspect even responsible large snake owners have had them escape on them. I know my iguana I had as a teenager always did. Here in Massachusetts if a reptile gets out of cage it turns up under the dryer machine or dies eventually if it gets outside. The same a with tropical fish if released in local pond here. That is just not the case in FL for better or worse.
Substantial research indicates this popular nostrum is completely false. the ability of invasive species to achieve stability is a very percentage of escaped species. Those that do achieve stability are able to do so because they take advantage of an unused niche. I OW everything you just saidf is proven absolutely false.
Dandelions are 'non native' species too, good luck shutting the barn door after the cows are out. Nativist arguments do not sway me from being in favor of biodiversity. I can't bomb my attic because the starlings force their way through the soffit; and if their ancestors were not native to this land, well, neither are most of us. We can send boy scouts to tear the invasive Japanese honeysuckle from the forest (and I turned many an African tulip tree in PR to charcoal), but there are limits to what we can do without going crazy on the environment. It is what it is. Bounties on boas etc (the iguana meat is as prized in. Japan as kudzu root); make it profitable, like the boars in Alabama being turned to dog food, that's how to gain some measure of control- if we can do it to a passenger pigeon 🙄 we can probably socially engineer a craze for boa skin handbags (or whatever). There's no simple solutions, and committees and legislators composed of non-biologists are not equipped to discuss them, let alone mandate them. (It sure was simple to muck things up though, aye? A shame. Well, a fifty cent bounty on carp got all them out of Big Bear Lake when I was a kid- it can be done, without banning the trade of goldfish).
Cat owners are, in the most part, irresponsible because they let their cat free roaming. It's bad for the ecosystem and it's not gonna help the state of Florida. It's kinda cool that the legislators are starting to fight against invasive tropical species, but why not also including cats? They count as a huge invasive species and no other countries fight against them (except NZ and Australia for obvious reasons). I believe cats are in the top 3 in the invasive species list.
@@blackbird3456 The issue with domestic cats is that they should be kept indoors. So, they are not killing the native bird & small animal populations. I've never heard of domestic cats posing a serious threat to any ecosystem as in the case of non-native, invasive, species stemming from the pet population in FL.
@@FatherFish citation needed because a google says with respect it is you who is wrong.
This is what happens when rich men die leaving old women lots of money to waste.
Yeah. Like that!
Florida's lakes and river system is Florida's black market, it's a fricken supermarket of exotics!!!
Not as much as you might think.
@@FatherFish so there is not a pleco problem?
@@FatherFish And not as little as you'd have us believe....I've seen what comes out....
@@WindsofChange I lived and collected in Florida for 32 years. Have a pretty good idea of what is there and what is not.
@@FatherFish Yet you still seem to not understand why people are making the comment about how many have established themselves in the waterways. You keep trying to minimize it. A comment that those that are fighting this should be making to the authorities to try to stop this as it is good common sense.
I've had a clown pleco in a tank for 16 years, he's still the size of my thumb. All i do to feed him is put a healthy slice of sweet potato in the tank with a little fork stuck in it to keep it down, once a week. He has had other tank buddies, even a pair of reproducing fancy goldfish, all gone now. He has the tank how he likes, it seems. We gave him a black wine glass to live in, he usually sits with his nose out so he can see what we are doing. Did you know the pleco can change the brightness of their skin. When he is in the light, during tank cleaning time, he changes from the colour of sweet potato flesh to the colour of sweet potato skin. He comes out of his cave when she calls his name, DumDum.
with that being said, you guys need to move from 'hobby' fish breeders into a fish species conservation program. is there any state that stil has a gov't science program to tap into? you might find your conscience pushes you to leave your failed state, start looking for a safe haven now.
Florida's government has gone off the rails legislating daily life across the board last few years. Lot of overreach on every possible topic.
I t is the influence of real estate developers clearing the way for massive construction.
This... So much horrible stuff. I lived in Florida for some of high school years and years ago. That was hard enough, but cannot imagine how more messed up I'd be living down there during that vulnerable time as a trans person with the legislate doing so much harm.... May not have have survived.
That Florida Governor may run for president is really scary -- imagine how much harm that'll do to all aspects of life :x (While some don't want to deal with politics, everyone is effected by politics everyday as effects jobs/livehood/etc. so much).
Not surprised , Florida has some major issues with invasive species Pythons , iguanas, wild pigs to name a few. I’m a fish keeper because I admire nature and am fascinated by it. That said the pet trade often harms nature.
@@hefoxed Oh you blame Desantis for cracking down on the tropical fish industry?
Wow, I guess simplifying such a complicated issue to blame on the “other” party is the only way for some small minds to process it.
@@IronPsyde He's the leader.. it's also all those that support him, it's a cultural of ignorance and fear mongering.
But you're probably too "small minded" to get this... considering you immediately go to insulting people based off a few points.
I would love to get one of the wildlife staff to give a talk on this topic at our club. We need to get involved more before this blows up
Floridans are "blessed" because if they want tropical fish, they can just go to nearest ditch or canal, put some traps and swing net couple times, and youll probably get what you want eventually. There's this guy, "Bass fishing productions" he's caught every imaginable aquarium fish out there.
What, because people have released tropical fish there and they have survived? Makes sense why they want to ban the hobby there I guess.
Releasing invasive tropical fish there has been destroying the local ecosystem for years, if it doesnt stop it might have really serious repercussions.
@@ihatemyneighbour226 Thats why catching them like that guy does is good for environment, tho I doubt it'll have any impact. Many floridan fish enthusiasts would need to do the same. Good thing is that its actually helluva fun. On the other side, I'll never understand why do people release invasive aquarium fish into wild instead of giving them away to friend or nearest fish shop. I guess theese people are braindead idiots who dont understand the bad impact they are doing on environment. Honestly Im also not surprised why such bill is being considered... :C
@@neutronshiva2498 well if they ban breeding and sale of tropical fish maybe more people will start catching the invasive species from the wild?
@@gbear2087 yeah there's also that.
In California we have a gun roster. In Florida they have a fish roster 😅
The California gun roster was overturned in court.
Florida is a crazy place
Better than California
They need to vote the Republicans out.
I hope you are not so foolish as to believe democrats are in any way better.
@Father Fish they give us two political parties so we think we have a choice. Left hand or right hand, It's still the same person
@@FatherFish can’t win either way,we honestly need a new system here!
Government run amuck
typical just before *"The BUST"*
@@andybilakshow260 how big will the bust be, and will it shatter my fishtanks?
Biggest understatement of the year
If there is a problem with invasive animals , it stays , no matter if animals are banned or not . That ban wouldn't affect the already existing populations . They could rather do something like a register , where the origin of a fish and the buyer is listed . If the hobbyist sells that fish or it dies , it can be registered . That way they can control , if someone releases a fish to the wild .
by the hundreds of millions a year.
@@FatherFish 😉 If they want to control everything , that might keep them busy .
Where I live there is a sign asking locals to report any invasive terrestrial plant species. I estimate that only about 60% of the plants within sight of this sign are natives. 40% are introduced already. I laugh every time I drive past this sign. I think I can spot about 10 invasives just where this sign is. These aquarium laws are a similar waste of time and will acheive almost nothing. Like trying to stop the tide with a spoon. The horse bolted about 100 years ago. They want to prosecute 5 year olds meanwhile non-natives are breeding and growing outside their bedroom window. I manage feral and non-native species. It is a losing battle. Every dog and cat is a feral animal fully endorsed and supported by our authorities. We need perspective. Within 500m of this sign is one of the worst infestations of an invasive plant species I have seen on land managed by the local council. This weed would be on the top ten hit list. What a laugh. They do not do anything about it but expects us to.
This is sort of where I fall. Seems like a waste of time and money just to "appear" to be doing something about the invasive species issues. I think they know it is too late to do anything about it, but people demand that something be done. So they just do anything that might look like a plan of attack.
I used to dream about moving to Florida but not anymore as I'm a reptile and fish breeder.
Never move to Florida. Only a fool would.
1. Florida needs to vote Rubio out. 2. Does he ever follow through on anything, he is mostly talk and do nothing
No he is an ineffect grifting fake republican. He serves higher interests, he doesn't give a single crap about the state of Florida.
This is his Lacey Act bill rewritten for the FWC.
Unfortunately, he's not our worst Senator.
It's sad, but I haven't been a fan of "little marco" for a long time.
❤
No problem, just a career change from fish collection to drug production…simple.
I've been buying equipment to gather together then to purchase my tropical fish, if this law is passed, I don't know where I can buy them and it won't be allowed to be shipped, why is this happening?
floridians were warned not to vote right wing..... they were told they will come for your fun thing next..... in trying to stop others having fun they now realise thier fun is next.... but thats what happens when you vote for parties who policies are about hurting others rather than helping themselves .... but they only learning it group group by group so I doubt they will even realise until its their door being knocked on.....
And this would have happened either way, voting left or voting right. Both comes with their ups and downs.....
@justinneuroth1371 except the left control nothing in florida so you cannot blame the left...... so like I said the extreme right controls all policy in florida for quite some time now
If you believe this is right wing you are badly deluded. This is straight out of a Marxist playbook. It is based on government control and destruction of undesirabole economies. Think Biden.
These policies are not those of a free people. They are the edicts of people who are in power and intend to exercise their power to stay in power.
@@FatherFish With all due respect, your attitude here is exactly why this situation is happening. Florida's government is under the iron fist of Desantis.
They could also give responsible registered and proven people like these 2 men permits
After decades of politicians ignoring environmental issues, they are now trending. Every one of them is desperate for their little green tick. This means for us the sledge hammer legislation approach on any issue complex of not. And with encouragement from ever more neurotic scientific community this kind of thing will only get worse. Good luck to all those whose lively hood hangs in the balance. au
Putting politicians and bureaucrats in charge of Nature is complete madness.
@@FatherFish Indeed far more harm than good.
get ready for the new 10k new approved species of glofish
at a cost of $1M per color
And they will possibly be made sterile so people can't breed them at home.
I just looked it up there’s over 1800 species of tropical fish and I’m sure the United States imports a lot of them. This will be horrible for people that are in the business of selling tropical fish.
More than 20K species of aquatic animal;s are imported into Florida for sale.
@@FatherFish wow I didn’t know that. Have you ever wondered why people and government don’t do what the people put them there for. The only thing it seems that they do is pass laws that benefit them and hurt the people.
Importing and selling fish is an industry, yes, but not significant in terms of employment. That's sort of the weakest argument against these regulations. Nobody owes you a job "in the hobby".
@@Andreas-gh6is i’m not so much talking about hurting employment because a lot of these people in the aquatic business, have small shops, and don’t employee a lot of people. Unless you’re somebody like Jack Watley discus. What I was talking about is if they can’t get certain types of fish, certain types of species. Those mom and pop places might end up closing down. First of all, let’s get one thing straight all these laws that are getting pass, and Florida is doing nothing to help the average person it’s just to show you how much power they have power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely
@@FatherFish and now we have an invasive species problem in Florida thanks to your industry I am 100% behind this and as John Kerry said go find other work
Can we put a wall around Florida? This is bad news bears… what next? My dogs?!?
The hi rise bach front crowd hate that people come to Florida for nature.
I hope that don't happen, but if it does the northern States can be good for breeding or raising Tropical fish in spite of the cold. In fact, in places like Minnesota, Michigan, and Wisconsin it gets so cold the fish would die in the wild, so even though Tilapia is considered an invasive species, you can farm them up here with very little regulation. If one were to raise animals that could live up here, then that would be a different story. Like I said, I hope Florida don't shut down that industry there, but up here, I wouldn't even need an aquaculture permit to raise, or farm anything that can't live in the wild. so there is hope even if things go bad there.
The real danger is other state Wildlife regulatory agencies follow the lead of Florida. It would not be long before Rubio's Lacy Act returns with a vengeance.
May be done on purpose. So people can’t breed tilapia and such for food. Like they take away peoples right to have chickens and how many
That's tilapia. Your not going to be heating massive spawning pools for tropical fish up north without obscene heating costs for your greenhouses that you'd have to keep the pools in.
@@existinginaspace8347 You don't think Tilapia are a cold water fish do you? The reason I mentioned them in the first place is cause they are farmed here, and they are Tropical fish, the same as Discus, or African cichlids. In Fact Tilapia are a cichlid species that can be bred in a tank, and then grown out in tanks. In fact breeding them is much the same as other cichlids. While it is ideal to keep the industry in Florida, there is hope that legislators will be less likely to ban Tropical fish farming in the north because there is little or no environmental risk. Now to your point about heating...there are ways to keep those heating costs low. You'd have to be creative though, it's clearly being done with an edible tropical fish, no reason it can't be done with pets. Worse case, maybe it just means hobbyists will have better opportunities to sell to fish stores. they make most of their money on equipment anyway.
@@jerrogance tilapia can survive in 55 degree water
You're talking out yo ass
I do not know all the specifics or have the answers to this but I do know whenever things like this do get addressed they go way overboard on the regulations. They never meet in the middle and go from there! They should start in the middle so it doesn't kill anyone financially and expand or decrease regs from there after they do their assessments. You just can't kill an industry with thousands of jobs people are depending on that income! Hopefully they take some of this into consideration instead of just banning every damn thing!
Hopefully, yes.
So when all the invasive fish killed the fisherman's job that was OK?
@@williamladesic9057they never did
I can see why they want to do this, but at the same time, I also see where it'll make things WORSE and not better all around. It also worries me cause it really feels like when one state succeeds at passing or creating a new law that is literally overkill and doesn't help anyone but them(as the politicians see profits from this) then these laws start spreading like a disease to a lot of other states because they know they can get away with it
Precisely correct. It MUST be stopped here! Like any evil, once it takes hold it multiplies. We are besieged by evil all around us.
We aren't supposed to be living in a country where we have to ask the king for permission. The environment is a convenient excuse to seize additional power.
@@evil1by1 this is the hill your willing to die on fugitively speaking sorry there is no purpose for taking these creatures from the sea other than having a trophy in your living room and now we have a problem with lion fish, pythons, iguanas, anaconda, and water monitors in our state and the defamation of sea life
the more things they make illegal, the more rights they take away, the bigger the profits at the prisons their buddies run...florida is broken, and the GOP dream of less government is an easy goal. For once they take away all your rights, you need less government to manage you. A corrupt police force, a corrupt justice system, and you become a state owned slave for owning a fish that isn't in their colouring book.
Seems to be a lot of people who want the exotic pet trade eliminated. I understand Florida’s plight with all the non native species killing off the native flora and fauna but why should the people in states that these things can’t live have to suffer because of people like Rubio doesn’t want them around
Such a sad day.
Not all fish keepers, but alot of them are preserving dying echo systems. The pet trade could be so important for conservation wether that's breeding projects or teaching people. If it wasnt for keeping animals I would never have developed it as an interest and I'm grateful I have that interest now.
The pet trade shouldnt be demonized it should be celebrated for the work it has done.
Again not all pet keepers are good keepers but the ones that are have had a hug impact on what we know about these animals
Absolutely true. The very best control on the fish and small animal trade would be to set basic standards of care for the retail trade. Senator Rubio has once again proposed federal legislation to ban every animal that is traded in relatively small quantities from being exported. We remain stuck with goldfish, giant plecostomus, and pacu but me not have the very animals we are committed to protect from extinction. His ignorance is appalling.
@@FatherFish its preposterous. I live in the uk but if there is anything I can do to help let me know please :)
Unless your senator comes down on this ruling hard and protects the his people I can surely see him loosing his reelection next term!!!! 😢
Rubio has his fingerprints all over this.
isnt the problem responsibility? Florida has so many issues with invasive fish from the hobby. its a case of the few ruining it for the rest.
No. I do not think the issue is responsible pet owner behaviour. It is the requirement that government support all aspects of the Florida economy rather than only the interests of developers.
@@FatherFish but you skipped my point being that Florida is hit hard by invasive species being released by pet owners into its ecosystem. it costs your economy millions trying to keep on top of it.
Thank you for this video. No one believes me when I try to people about this.
I'm from GA and I love goldfish... so I understand how this could be problematic. So sad!!
Goldfish are mostly bred to suffer. Anything but the wildtype body shape should be banned to breed, and nobody who loves these animals should breed or buy them that way out of their own common sense. Most of these forms can't swim right and the deformities cause all sorts of trouble for them. Also, when raising them, only a small fraction can survive to adulthood and most have to be culled just from deformities too great.
@Andreas And there's an entire community of us despite that. But you're correct. The inbreeding and crazy unnatural feeding many people push and whatnot has gotten out of hand and causes a lot of issues.
@@Andreas-gh6isthat's how fish are though, most spawn are not supposed to make it. It is t cruel to cull the deformed no quality of life fry
Am i understanding this correctly? They are going to shut down fish farms in Florida, and that's were most of the hobby fish are raised?
They are proposing to shut down ALL trade in pets.
I'm in 🇨🇦 and I wonder how this will effect the trade of fish; considering the fact that we import boatloads from Florida.
If it passes national laws are not far off.
You should get the zoo aware and involved!
They are!
Bad Apples always ruin it for everyone else, the State of Florida has to do something to make People responsible!.
Not the job of government
It is the Governments job when People continue releasing Animals in the wild, that'a why there is a new and bigger species of snakes
I can't believe I'm seeing this in my lifetime.
There are thousands of in invasive tropical aquarium fish species n Florida in the wild.. Do they think they can control this too?
More like a few hundred. Good question!
@@FatherFish I mean, there are so much people collecting these aquarium fish from the wild. What do they think they can do about that? Crazy..
As long as people keep buying large species of fish and reptiles and releasing them I think it makes sense. If you've never raised a snake, lizard, or fish than maybe you shouldn't start with one gets massive. If you want a large species than maybe you should apply for a permit and part of it would be do you have the skill and space to raise that animal to full size.
You are correct.
Come down to Texas brother! We would love to have you!
I have considered it!
@@FatherFish don’t,you may be able to have any fish you want,but every other right will be removed,our governor is a nut case too! If we could leave,we would!
The fact is that your desire to keep an animal does not trump the risks to the animals due to over collection, and the risk to the Florida environment due to the introduction of invasive species.
I completely understand your frustration given the authority doing this is the same one that is responsible for the careless introduction of non native species. I think there's a salient point to be made about politics here. This is what happens when you appoint politicians who are only interested in making money. And we all know what party is to blame here.
Yes. Both.
@@FatherFish
It seems like there are real concerns here - you make excellent points about the protection of endangered species.
However, I would ask you to really think about your lumping of both parties together. I'm not saying one is perfect by any means - but one party clearly denies any human risk to the environment, and the other doesn't. I think, if you're going to be fair, the best chance of changing the situation for the better is with the party with the more progressive members.
Owning a store, this scares me
Rubio's amendment to the Lacey Act is genuinely scarey.
the government is the worst at fixing any problem their solution is always to go way overboard with regulations that just make some burocrat money.
Government has no business controlling the earth.
I get iguanas and pythons are a problem but why do they feal the need to lump all animals into this
You need to understand these people do not know what animals are.
Add Lion fish to the list.
There haven't been any controls for decades and decades.
Not true at all. There are very strict controls on the import of animals into Florida. they must be recorded, tracked, kept safely, etc etc.
@@FatherFish and it didn't work, obviously.
@@Andreas-gh6iswhich is a testament to the fact this dysgenic regulation doesn't work.
Imagine the people that have been in this for decades imagine being told guess what you’re out of business. I’d like to see the list of tropical fish that have been approved. Imagine if you couldn’t get safer instance like discus that would suck
This is catastrophic!
@@FatherFish yes it is. I don’t understand the people that run this state it seems like they’re looking for ways to put people out of business.
This happened with mink farms during Covid. Forced to close with no compensation.
@@mcmaestro9443 Mink farms shouldn't even be a thing in the 21st century, glad they were shut down. However, no compensation was not right either.
@FatherFish honestly you guys deserve it. It's funny to me you are more worried about your sales then if a fisherman can make a living.
Thats a thing that should have been on the books about a thousand years ago !
No lifeforms of any kind that are not native to the usa !
Period !
Let's see. hmmm. Honey bees, roses, dogs, cats, wheat, bananas, migrating birds, whales, every microbe, the list goes on. There is no living thing that is not invasive.
@@FatherFish
Totally missed the point
Pythons, tropical fish.
And those animals brought here from other countries
Ok.... here it is guys from a floridian... florida is not shutting down tropical fish farms.
The farmers made a convincing case before the commissioners. They agreed to go back to the drawing board and reconsider. This can mean anything. It is not likely to mean an admission that all species desired by the industry will be permitted.
Crazy that the state is talking about ending a multi-billion dollar industry for... reasons...
Look at what they've done to the reptile industry in the past couple of years.
It's a shame; as long as there is a significant amount of money to be made, someone will do it legally or illegally. Fish farming should not be limited; it is the way to prevent tropical fish from being removed from their native environment because it drives prices down, disincentivizing poachers.
A nive sentiment but the reality is there are tiny biotopes with unique species being destroyed daily. Removing these species is often the only way to protect them.
@@FatherFish That is exactly what I am saying. The only reasons these fish get destroyed are habitat loss/degradation, invasive predators, or illegal poaching. If the fish farms can sell the fish at low prices, then the poachers cannot get much compensation for their work and risk by breaking the law. Fish farms can not only save native fish populations, but also disincentivize poachers from selling them when laws that prosecute poachers are enforced.
Keep voting ❤ its really working out for you
No. The industry should not exist in hurricane zones. Just because the heat is cheap and the water is cheap.
Where, precisely, are there no storms?
If you though fish and corals are expensive now you better buckle up.
Moving to the more humid/mild weather of Texas might help with fish breeders. I’m angry so many Californians are moving to Texas and kind of ruining it.
Stop it Californians! Once you leave Cali, develop an understanding that Texas is better because it doesn’t have the asinine laws you are familiar with. Or stay in Cali.
To me They can't control the Oscar's Peacock bass and all the other tropical fish sales now greedy bastards
Wait so you can own tigers monkeys hand guns but not a fish
Crazy country
Here in maine we already have it. Sucks
The biggest question is....
Where did the Marimo go?
Marinas arent complete dead zones, grey Mullet thrives in marinas eating bits out of the sewage from boats and rubbish that humans throw in to the sea. Mussels and barnacles similarly coat the hulls of boats and the piers and pontoons, and I've seen crabs crawling around under pontoons too.
Marina habitat is designated dead zone by definition.
Would you actually want to eat anything living in a marina? Does anything else on the food chain??? If not, it's a dead habitat.
@@cherylmockotr no ofc not, its full of chemicals. Some people do fish for and eat grey mullet though.
@@cherylmockotr there's a whole food chain in a marina, yes. Just becsuse humans don't eat from there doesn't mean it's a dead habitat.
@@giftofthewild6665 the marina dead zone is certainly nothing close to the brilliant, viable, vital ALIVE zone the waterway was PRIOR to becoming a marina!
Wow this is alarming!
Indeed it is!
@@FatherFish how can we stop this greed?
I hope this doesn’t go through
We all do
Politics and greed ruining things again.
Interesting how when it's a plant or animal they like its "naturalized" but when they dont its "invasive"
I am an aquarium enthusiast but that doesn't mean I'm going to deny the harm that's being done in Florida by invasive species. Clown Knife fish have taken over many of the waterways and lakes in Florida and they are a top tier predator species. I've watched many videos of guys netting drain ditches and waterways in Florida and pulling up so many exotic species you'd think he's in the Amazon.
I get the feeling this is turning into just another Nimby situation (Not in my backyard). People want to take care of nature and stop the bad actors who actually do dump fish or to stop the accidents that have and do happen from breeders that flood the lakes but once they see it affects them they get outraged. If you have solutions, go and offer them. Don't just write letters of outrage and complain about it. Denying the problem just because it affects your hobby is not a good look and it's hypocritical.
The biggest single problem invasive is the jewel cichlid. It is profoundly predacious of small natives. It is in fact rare to find clown knives or other major predators in Florida waters. Most, like oscars, have a limited range and are a niche fish that is not impacting native fisheries.
@@FatherFish Have you not seen the videos of the guys who had fished the clown knife fish and had what looked like at least 50 in their truck? They're found in a few lakes but they're prolific. Other tropicals are easily found as well. Either way it's happened and containment breeches of breeding facilities and idiotic "fishkeepers" are to blame. This bill didn't just come out of thin air.
Which means if it’s not a cat or a dog ( minus pit bulls, Dobermans and Rottweilers ) you can’t have it.
wait, rotties are banned in florida??
@@WindsofChange no, I’m just using those big dogs as examples, I didn’t mean to scare anyone, sorry but I’d watch this senator over there, the Lacy’s Act guy
@@gregwilliams853 Oh LOL....yeah, I hear you...pretty soon they're gonna ban breathing..
@@WindsofChange that or they will force everyone to wear a mask that has a slot in it and if you don’t put a dollar in it each hour it will shut off and you won’t be able to breath.
The people ought to ban all the politicians we have now and start over with smart ones
Where can I see the proposed white list for sale/import? I only see potentially banned species
It has not been developed. It will contain only those animals currently in the trade in very large numbers. Stupid, yes?
Whats the deal with Florida and animals? Its supposed to be the "free" place, but why are they cracking down on pet trades so hard? Theyve gone nuts with reptiles. Is Desantis on board with this?
I think so, yes.
I have to say good. I was in the saltwater hobby for over a decade. I stopped because I felt like I was encouraging those who cared less, that caused massive amounts of fish/coral deaths.
Even in salt water if the tank is set up with a deep substrate and micro organisms are encouraged it will balance and the fish will remain healthy.
as someone who has seen the decline in tropical fish and the incline in lion fish and other invasive animals in the Florida keys for the last 30 years I find there is no need to take a animal from the sea unless you intend to eat it. this industry has no purpose other than to provide trophies for your living room
I feel like many people still in the aquarium hobby are concerned with that issue as well, which is why so many work to breed these organisms in captivity. This law would also make that process illegal in Florida, which is one of the primary locations where this is done in the United States. Without those facilities, larger pet shops in other states will likely turn to wild caught alternatives, which will dramatically increase the animal welfare issues you’re concerned about. So I’m curious, what about this is good exactly? Not trying to argue, just looking for your perspective.
@@earthtamerronan6352 Agree with your assessment. There is nothing good about t his. Now Rubio has resubmitted his obscenity amendment to the Lacey Act that will ban any new or limited in number species from import. That guarantees the extinction of countless species of fish., These are evil people seeking to do destruction.
@@scott1637 These are Tropical Fresh water farms we are talking about. For those who are skilled enough to breed salt water you are not doing that outside for many reasons.
We've got to get these Republicans out of office. They are ruining everything.
Clearly we need more Biden.
I agree,I live in Texas and it’s maddening how many rights they take away and how many insane laws they make!
Hi Father Fish, was hoping I could get your advice on how to make a severum tank work according to your food web fishkeeping philosophy. Severums love to eat and unground aquarium plants.
Large fish can only survive in a food web if there are just a few. th-cam.com/video/BpOF3XMZjqk/w-d-xo.html
FWC Whitelist - Keeping Fish In Florida Proposed Rule
icsbusiness.net/fwc-whitelist/
pathetic this i am so glad i don't live in America sorry to all fellow hobbiests who are being effected by this BS.
Is it better where you are?
@FatherFish I am in the UK, so we have issues importing a large number of the rarer stuff, but I believe it's down to availability. I just hope you guys can still enjoy the hobby. I hate that its greed and a government with no idea what they are doing, which is causing anxiety about the hobby in florida.
well this may be unfortunate but texas has pretty loose laws around what kind of animals you can have
Reptiles I totally get, we are infested with snakes that are not natural to Florida’s this goes for reptiles. The Asia carp, snakehead, and many aquarium fish have been released into Florida waters, check you tubers catching them in canals or ponds, so I get it. I’m a fish hobbyist myself but I can understand why they want to pass this law.
Except. That is not why they want to ban everything. All species are currently investigated for their danger as invasives. The danger of new species is negligible. This is about creating a mono economy of development.
I was told they're catching dart (poison arrow) frogs and chameleons out in the wilds of Florida now.
@@FatherFish Nothing wrong with investigating all species of fish. Depending on locale, even Guppies and similarly sized fish have become a problem. The idea to ban fish species by default on its own really isn't stupid for the particularly situation of Florida and the demonstrated irresponsibility of its inhabitants.
@@Andreas-gh6is You, of course, do not understand the nature of invasive species. What you have just said is not true.
@@Andreas-gh6is Bruz, do you honestly think Florida will have someone do a deep dive investigation on every possible fish species one can keep in a tank? No. They won't.
People will just import the fish through other ports . It will hurt people in the south but I'm quite sure New York will soon follow suit with a similar law.
agreed. At the hearing where industry leaders spoke the Commissioners claimed they had no idea the industry is as large and well regulated as it is. IOW they were prepared to regulate a vast industry out of business with absolute ignorance as their guide.
Come to California where I live and you can do ANYTHING you want.
lol Are you in the eastern desert region in a cave?
Except for lawn mowers and a safe life! lol I'll take my chances here in Sunny SOFLO!
Its irresponsible for fish growers to grow exotic species that can easily escape when there is an inevitable flood - because flooding will happen. If they can grow the fish in secure areas that can't escape during hurricanes and flooding, then that's fine. There are many streams and ponds in FL now that are just filled with exotic fish. The same applies to those exotic reptiles that people keep on releasing into the Everglades and such.
You have been duped by a sensationalist media. Nowhere in Florida are invasives destroying native populations except the pythons in FL where matters are coming under control.
Yep...well...that's Florida for you.
You mean fish store will have to pay home breeders a fair price? I'm sorry this is happening
No I mean fish stores will be out of business and fish breederrs will have their animals destroyed.
@@FatherFish got to love Florida and all it's BS. Love your videos.
@@AquaponicandSoilGardens I know, River Bear. I do love Florida.
Glofish, I'm out.
making thing illegal maybe the point, history teaches that lots of laws are made to make people criminals and take their rights away, and i respect everyone the spoke at the fwc meeting, they did a great job
Absolutely right. This was a proud day fore pet keepers.
Florida is the best state in the union for breeding exotics and farming fish. I get theh want strip malls and condos but that doesnt make for a diverse economy.
Now besides that, do they honestly think taking away access to the fish farms will stop people from doing it?
No of course not. The exact same type of landgrabs are happening to short tracks all over the US. We loose our tracks and the pnes leftover wont let our cars on. So we race on thw streets and highways. Were not going to just... Not race.
It will happen. Source experience.
The same thing will happen with fish farms in Florida. Guaranteed
Father i used to do lots of water changes and feedings on my convicts.The result was quick and big growth.Can i do this with natural aquarium ?
You can but do not need to.
@@FatherFish How come ? I want my fish get as big as possible
@@omeromer9300 Do you want them to grow fast and die young or grow at their natural rate and live long?
@@FatherFish natural rate and live long thanks father,well said