Massive shoutout to my editor (@therealESGOO) who helped me get this video out, he'll be helping out with more and more videos going forward, so please be nice to him as he learns the ropes!
Are you an Umineko fan too by any chance? Just saying because it’s the second time I’ve heard one of the bgm tracks on your videos which is pretty cool.
My favorite implication in this game is that base ish having the fastest speed range in the game is implying that she is CONSTANTLY sprinting at FULL PELT during any combat Imagine watching meursault walk his ass to the foe as ishmael BOLT pass him to hit a veteran really hard with a mace
To add to the silly state of launch numbers, Rabbit Heath still holds the trophy for the most amount of coins across ALL his skills, even when accounting for multi coin counters, reused coins, and bonus skills like BLSalt’s TCTB he still has more. The only ID that even comes close is Dieci Rodion who has 1 less than R Heath
Esgoo comments about a possible update to old IDs: The secret pm worker watching the video: "ohh they want uptie V? Sure let's give em the update of old IDs for 300 thread and 150 egoshards and the lux staying the same!"
I would like if uptie 5 is level restricted Like you get it for units at 50 level or higher. Making it unecesary to revalance pre canto 7 and NOT Need even MORE resources.
I feel like an (un)surprising amount of the strangeness that came with Launch IDs boils down to Project Moon trying to shift gears after Ruina. Lots of the smaller quirky moments make more sense in the context of Ruina's systems, things like KK Hong Lu Cloudburst having a seemingly-redundant Combat Start buff to debuff application: In Ruina that'd matter for several reasons, like skill copying and reuse.
15:10 "He was improved by uptie 4" I think you undersell it for the newbies. He was the official poster child for the improvement of upties as he was set as an example in their twitter post.
I though R Corp Ishmael was that, though. When uptie 4 came out, I remeber everyone (including myself) telling that the best id for uptie 4 is Reindeer Ishmael.
@@aspid164 Eh, it's arguable. R Ishmael was still technically usable, BL yi sang was just... utter garbage. And uptie 4 turned them both into one of the best ids
Especially as BL Yi sang was something everyone got if they were supporting the game and uptying him to 4 gave you one of the best clashers in the game and even if he critted everg single coin hed gain 1 poise count every skill 1, maintain poise on skill 2, lose 1 poise count on skill 3, this counts turn poise decay
@@aspid164 R. Ishmael went from good to top tier. She had a 13 16 22 rolls but her passive ate 15 SP on activation and her charge gain meant that without telepole don helping she would take 3 turns to get a mind whip at minimum. (4 if you were unlucky and your skill list was 3 skill 1/1 skill 3 at first) At Uptie 4 her rolls go to 14 18 26 and her charge gain get better and mind whip cost 2 less. With that change her charge was guaranteed to be enough by turn 3. And her passive instead removing the sanity if she doesn't hit the enemy (Which honestly, logically doesn't happen with her rolls) Basically she was an unit who became one of the best so of course you should invest in her, before she was good but held back by some meh passive/charge gain. Meanwhile W. Meursault he still is not that good. He went from terrible to alright. (And I say that as someone who use him because I like him) Pre uptie 4 peoples complained about ishmael/don generation being slow. Meursault (and W. Faust) were legit unusable. Meursault basically needed to get hit a bunch to get enough charge to reliably use his skill 3 at full power. And like esgoo said 11 11 9 rolls are very bad. His charge gain was : +3 -3 -8 at uptie 4 it's +6 -3 -8 Which is still not that good. Also yeah they buffed his rolls but like what really saved him was regret. Without regret (with conditional that need you 5 charge so good luck on skill 3 use) they are 11 14 17 A 14 rolling skill 2 is still pretty bad. But hey with regret now he get a 12 19 24. But that mean no electric screaming so hard time getting the charge for skill 3 (so telepole don has to come save the day (and maybe multicrack heath will help too)
Ah, the good old days of launch. When you could get a black screen at the end of a Canto preventing you from going to the next one, Aida was the hardest fight in the game, G Corp Gregor was considered the best ID in the game, and KK Hong Lu was the cheap easy beginner option to melt through everything (except Aida). Oh, and Mirror Dungeon was literally just Win Rate spam. What a time. I miss early Limbus. The game's gotten so much better, but also... wow, what a time.
@@Mr.Stizblee Absolutely, but in the first few days to a week of the game, people had zero idea what was good or not so the general consensus was that G Corp Gregor (the first rate-up 000) was the best.
I remember getting Rabbit Heathcliff from the gacha, using him, and thinking "eh he's not that good". This was because I didn't have him at uptie 3 yet, so no quick suppression lmao
One thing to remember about Launch is that in non-focused fights, the slowest person would be the main target for attacks. This is why tanks were designed to be as slow as possible to soak these attacks. However this targetting system made the game *extremely* volatile and snowbally (hi 2-18) so it was changed very early on leaving tanks with no way to actually *tank* until later.
19:14 At launch Branch of Knowledge was just a really high rolling ego that cost 0 SP and didn't have a dogshit passive so fueling it + S3 were good enough reasons if you wanted to use him considering Sinclair had no good IDs back then
Yes but a thing a lot of peoples forget is that also at launch sanity only moved the roll by only 20% so the heads tails rate was at max 70%. So branch of knowledge (and don sangre del sancho) had the tendency to sometime not be the right choice. (It also made unit like BL Yi sang better than what Esgoo make it seem (he still was bad don't get me wrong) but like enemy not rolling that high + luck being more present in skills meant that low coin power + high base could sometime save your ass. Edit : I know it's a bug. But it was still in the game for a long while. So it impacted the game quite a bit.
@@Silancetand not even that because his base bleed count isn't that good, he has 0 potency, skill 1 also does nothing and he needs to ramp up yo get to good bleed numbers when you have hook lu, kk ryoshu and ring ids outputting good bleed count and some potency without ramp up
Yeah, as some people say here, getting a 40+ minute rant about all the IDs from ESGOO would be exctatic...waaahhh... Please, its fine to make longer rants! Its amazing! Watching you I literally forget the time exists, so them being longer is really only a benefit for us!
you forgot to mention, the real reason people actually liked mariachi sinclair: for like, somewhere between 2 weeks and a month, defensive skills could activate on the first opponent that targeted the defender, instead of whoever the sinner was targeting with it. So in human fights, sinclair's evade could actually carry. This was most notable for pre-patch chapter 2 where aida could 1 shot half of your sinners in 1 turn. Mariachi sinclair could go in, by himself, and dodge pretty much everything while passively lowering enemy stagger and getting absolute resonance for his S3 every turn. But then of course, the targeting system in human fights was changed to be what it is today, and has been for like, 98% of limbus company's lifecycle. Still a notable footnote in the game's history.
I did not watch the whole video, but I'm convinced that they were just copying the LoR formula at the start, like effects described as "next coin deals +3 damage", it is so LoRish
Launch IDs having drastically varying rolls is simply due to the fact that at launch you only have a 75% chance to roll heads at 45sp, which means rolls like 6+1+1+1 and 4+8+8 are balanced in a way, which isn't mentioned in the video.
Combined with the relatively low rolls of enemies at launch, it's easy to see why high base power was valued so much by PM that they gave them such low coin power.
No-no you can't use that card here! They literally DIDN'T KNEW it was bugged and didn't give you a 1% per sanity, and they fixed it as fast as they get the knowledge about such vauge mechanic working incorrectly So, no, it wasn't balanced around Please, don't spread misinformation It was just a bug.
@@ethylenediamine33Doesnt really justify why the Season 2 ID's are weird Especially those like Sloshmael or Molar Sinclair who litteraly got replaced by Yuro Ryoshu for doing the same gimmick but better Rosespanners roll allright even tho Rodion rolls is a bit lacking Talisman Sinclair, Molar Office ID, Molar Ishmael, K Corp, and even Spicebush make sense tho
@@Yuri_Burger yeah it was. They addressed it I think it's something about "+45% out of 50%" instead of "+45% TO 50%" is how it worked So, it gave a 70~% number instead of 95% it was supposed to. PM has some of the wildest and funnies bugs I've seen personally)
There’s also the strange gimmicks of Ting tang Honglu and R corp Ishmael that I’m surprised weren’t mentioned in the vid. But I think they’re kinda cool on paper. R corp ishmael having one big nuke skill as a charge id: But if you don’t have the charge (10 charge and consumes ALL CHARGE STACKS), a RANDOM unit will get hit with it instead, which CAN be your own sinners. Spawning a bunch of memes of how someone clicked win rate with her on the team and got clapped right there and there because ishmael only had 3 charge. This kind of team killing was only seen on EGOS but it was an interesting gimmick to look back on. But it’s not surprising why pm decided to never give it to an ID ever again. As cool as forcing you to read the id’s gimmick was. and correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think we ever saw “+7 Damage” or “+[insert number here]” damage since his launch. I never used him, but i just think it’s funny they gave him extra damage. I would say something about it being guaranteed damage but I have no idea how it works.
The guarenteed damage is just flat damage, ignoring any resistances, exactly like bonus damage in LoR. Good for enemies with low resistances, and I assume it also goes through protection as well. However, I don’t think the numbers are large enough to be practical in battle.
Ting tang also has "reuse coin" and "reuse skill on kill" Which where weird as fuck The reuse coin work wonder on bosses tho, as broken part count towards its activation. And i think kk hong lu skill 3 adding effect is for solo runs, when you use 2 or more of it.
"Blunt fragility has been behind LCB Ishmael and Zwei Sinclair this entire time." You know, I'm having flashbacks to Ruina. I think the devs did too. Historically it makes a lick of sense, I suppose, even if it wasn't specifically just "blunt" that was the problem but the circumstances around it.
Looking at these old IDs, I'm reminded of some of the first sets of cards for TCGs. Look at the first sets for Yu-Gi-Oh or MtG, and you'll find a similar phenomenon where because of unusually worded text, old ideas, lack of standards, etc, the cards can end up either being laughably bad, or completely breaking the modern meta.
Kurokumo rodion was definitely one of those "designed to only work when they have multiple skillslots" ids :'D Kinda why I'm worried of if future focus on chain battles means no more multiple skill slots in combat even if you drop sinners from party
I feel like the "[Combat Start] Inflict additional status effect yada yada" part of KK Hong Lu's kit is not le random. They must've planned something for it to be used later in the game but we are 1 and a half year now and the only major game mechanic introduced was chain battles and sapling of light ability.
I still use both Yuri Faust and Sheeshmael in my Poise Haste team to this day and let me tell you, them deleting bosses in 2 turns still gives me goosebumps. I still kinda hate the change they did to sanity on dungeons though, the one where save spots resets them to 0, but i get why they do that, especially with the sanity change. It just means i can't use battle 1 to setup the team and then just use both of them to sweep the rest of the floor anymore.
I think the launch ID I'll have the biggest soft spot for for having all the weird Season 1 quirks is R Ishmael. I think I like using W Don more, but something about at Ishmael's kit is just "off" in a really strange way. She has one of, and arguably still does have, the strongest Skill 1s in the game, with 0 conditionals, a S2 that feels weirdly limp and strong at the same time (I think because S2s are considered the "baseline" of most IDs, and it feels rare to see a single coin one nowadays), a really admittedly strong but janky combat passive that makes you chain in weird ways, and of course, the ultimate funny move, the infamous Mind Whip. I feel like the explanations for a lot of this stuff, besides obvious unfamiliarity with the system and throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks, was that they were basing IDs off of Ruina, when Ruina works as a completely different game. The thing from KK Hong Lu's S3 is a good example, that's an effect ripped right from the KK pages in Ruina, but it just makes no sense in Limbus. Really, they just had no idea what they were doing. But, as good as I think it is to have standards for units so that none suck major ass or are purely just numbercrept (Sorry G Greg, my first 000...), it does feel a little boring looking at Multicrack Faust going "Oh she probably rolls 11, 16, 16 with conditionals of +1/ +1/ +2, like most other units with these coin numbers" instead of launching the game after N Sinclair drops, seeing the infamous 30, going "There's no fucking way" and then sharding him immediately.
@@victorpedrosoceolin3919 I mean Yuri Faust is one of those weird ass high rolling skill 3s with consistent big damage if she keeps rolling high. She simply deletes enemies with 1coin 26 with 256 damage on crit and it's always a joy to see.
3:39 techinally WRONG Tanks worked, by the OLDEST normal fights System. To elaborate, at launch limbus had the same chain system as now. HOWEVER the big diference is that Defence Skill will PASS the sinner's turn. This had 3 effects: -Because you pass the unit is ALMOST unforgettable, and the next unit will have the clash. -when you are out slotted on one side you can see how the chain comes back to the SLOWEST UNIT FIRST then follow as normal again. -The defensive skill will activate BEFORE reciving Any attacks, making them more valuable than NOW, Even to enemies. Meaning, if you had Bad clash and will get BIG damage if lost, you better PASS the turn, so now the next unit can clash an even lose the clash and recive little damage. ADITIONALLY the slowest sinner will begin geting Clash+number of slot attack on themselves. Thus why Base MEURASAULT Is the quintessential tank: Gain Defense skill up and protection from skills Gains protection from Ego and Ego passive. This man could tank 100 HP of damage for 1 turn. And the Best Strat where Solo runs, as defensive skill activate automatically, meaning you can LOSE A clash and it WILL activate, meaning character like ryoshu where BROKEN With multi slot. But people where to DUMB to use so PM DUMB IT DOWN. By making defensive skill "clashable" (not concider a clash by the game but you get what it does) AND Stagger unit wont get their speed at 0 anymore.(This last one was mainly a reward for staggerin, but also a heacy punish if outsloted. THIS Had severe concuences: 1 Defensive skill wont Active UNLESS it designates "Clash happen" 2 Defensive skill can be literally IGNORE by "clashing" with another defensive skill This Included COUNTER. But then PM realize counter just didnt work and REVERTED IT to Insta efect BUT NO THE REST FOR SOME STUPID REASON. Heck bosses are having to WORK AROUND this a anti defense abuse to even work With "at combat start" in place of "when use" making their activation unnecesary Or "gain more slots" so you either offset the defense or clash Not to mention One sided defense skill act WEIRD. They wont activate UNTIL the unit it target attacks it. Which is what the old system did with mix clash and defense but restricted to the target of the skill. And this dosnt work for sinners, so FUCK tanks says PM So Fuck you, i say back.
*untargetable Not unforgettable, stupid autocorrect ALSO Wcor meurasault was DEPENDANT on 2 thing. Using his block a Lot, like R cor ID does. We had 3 CHARGE EGO AT LAUNCH 3 pruple wolves, Fast, heathcliff and the giver of 10 charge DON. So i thing they make him in base kf that, which is still very STUPID. And charge faust also had charge problem, not as severe as meurasault but still steugfle.
@@ericquiabazza2608 Faust and Don Telepole were not on launch,Don's released like a month after and then Faust's a week after her's with the Seventis banner
9:45 the funny thing about preqoud yi sang is that our sawsbuck enemy actually applies 5 fragile with the exact same move, that being relentless stabbing but for some reason they didn't even want to limit the fragile yi sang got and jist removed it all together, fearing rabbitclif. A really funny and strange case of a boss Vs an ID.
@@therealESGOO have fun, im about to one of a shrillion mentioning this Your folly will not go unnoticed (Also, hope your having a good day! Mariachi sinclair > chef gregor)
Vergilius having ridiculous coin amount might mean that 5 coins is gonna be standard for any color fixers or grade 1 fixers we might have to fight in end game :'D so that makes those five coin skills funnier
Kurokumo Hong Lu inflicts +1 on S3 because it's supposed to work with his Passive, which inflicts +3 Bleed on the last coin of his last Skill, making it inflict +4 instead. How good this is is debatable but it's uh, a mechanic they wanted us to use ig.
This is a really fun video, thanks for sharing it. I think one of the things to remember is about early Limbus was that sanity was much less important, iirc max sanity only adding like a 20% chance for a coin to be heads. Head flips were much harder to guarantee, so consistency was REALLY powerful on IDs, often more valuable than clash power. This doesn't really make some of the totals forgiveable, but I think expresses an early design goal of swingy ids vs consistent rollers who you could be sure would win clashes if they started in your favour.
[15:03] Not only was W Meursault fixed by Uptie Tier 4, he was the POSTER CHILD for Uptie 4! I distinctly remember that when they were posting about the specifics of Uptie 4 in the announcement, they specifically picked this ID to show off all the buffs he would be getting. It's like they were silently implying: "yes, this ID is garbage, and let's fix that."
And no mention of mariachi sinclair not only having some of the worst numbers ever, but that the only buff was conditional coinpower to make his first two skills at acceptable 2 star level
The weird thing with Kurokumo Hong Lu's S3 definitely feels like a relic of card design from Ruina, with cards that were meant to boost your application of statuses or boost specific damage types for the whole turn. But then I suppose at some point they said 'nah' and just... made it kind of useless? Honestly I kind of wish we got more stuff like that, it's a neat little niche.
The thing with Kurokumo Hong Lu S3 and Kurokumo Rodya S2 is probably that Project Moon expected "giving an extra Skill slot" to be something important for certain IDs. Like, the Skill don't make sense in the context of Focus Encounters (unless you use less than 5-6 sinners) with only 1 Skill Slot, but when you have KK Rodya with two slots she can maintain that Poise count using the S2 two times per turn, etc, etc.
The KK Hong Lu S3 status increase is extremely funny because I can only think of a single corner case where it applies and makes a difference: Using the skill more than once in the same turn. So it basically only ever happens in Canto content, where you need to be really lucky to see multiple S3s line up at once and like, Mirror Dungeon runs where you convert his other skills to his S3. Instead of cloudcutter. Honestly I think it would be a neat gimmick for a non-focused encounter oriented ID that wants to line up multiple of the same skill in a turn. Maybe someday.
Man, how I wish I could go back to the dark ages of launch. When you uptie'd a character to 3 and got the whole kit, and didn't miss crucial fucking stats just because you're broke on shards and threads...
I think a large part missing from the video is the context of early limbus having a drastically lower chance to roll heads at 45 sanity, and IDs with high base power but low coin power (BL Yi sang and BL Sinclair for example) were actually pretty good because they consistently outclashed low rolling enemies in early cantos when for instance TT hong lu could roll a 5 on S3 and lose the clash
@@floor_tile it affected the game up until the first railway, and if the IDs were tested in a practical environment (does it feel good to use in the first cantos or is it dead weight) then high base power actually mattered a lot more and that's probably why we see such low coin power on them, they would just be too consistent and deal a lot of damage otherwise
My nosgolgia for the Launch IDs stems from the fact that to this day Reindeer ishmael is my best ishy ID. Not to mention she carried me for a long time before I made any coherent teams. So I'll always have a soft spot for the sinner tasing reindeer
I wish to see more stuff like ting tang hong lu. the idea of getting more stuff from either having the enemy bellow a health treshold or by reusing coins by killing enemies (I love onrush) is just cool. let my man snowball
I remember when I had just got into Limbus and saw your Kurokumo Hong Lu video, I think you were still in the under 100 subscribers territory at that point and I distinctly remember going "man i like scripted content like this and hope there will be more in the future", it's been a great year of content, thanks for being my lunchtime youtuber of choice, and thanks for the peak videos Esgoo!!! Here's to above and beyond!
Another thing I'd like to point out is also how god awful many counters are at launch. Like seriously they're often 1 coin skills that sometimes deal less damage than their skill 1. Stuff like Sunshower or Pequod Heathcliff's counters are the good examples of a good counter. But y'know, they came later.
Old IDs also have really high stagger thresholds, so counters were super unlikely to actually work... And I remember Sunshower Heath getting a 2 coin counter as being "special," but thankfully they're using it more.
My theory on why so many launch IDs have such weird kits that dont really work with one skill slot is that they had planned for the nonfocused encounter system where they gain skill slots to be more common or a system similar to ruina skill slots, hence why IDs like KK rodya poise count only works (barely) if she has 2 skill slots.
I'd love for the old IDs to be buffed, I love KK rodya as a concept, my favourite sinner with an awesome counter skill gimmick but she just isn't a functional kit on her own and it just saddens me.
Its esgooning time or something. But on a seriius note, thank you for making these videos. They are alm enjoyable and I always look forward to them. It is great having quality content in a niche, and you aswell as other PMoon/Limbus CCs do soo good.
I think a lot of the launch ids were created with the intent to be better with more skill slots. Like kurokumo Rodion and LC Faust can gain poise and poise count by using their skills 2’s twice, but nowadays it’s too slow to actually use effectively.
Not gonna lie, I still want an event/game mode that's actually centered around solos, so you just get to take one ID, but they get to start out with multiple skill slots.
@@LTDLetsPlays That works too. I'll take most forms of experimentation with the formula to be honest. (Just wait for the Sinner kaleidoscope mode where it's multiple IDs all form one Sinner.)
Honestly, I think most of the launch IDs were designed with the regular combat system in mind, and with that IDs would have 2-3 skill slots. So a lot of the bad poise and charge IDs make slightly more sense when you think about them using more than one poise/charge gaining skill a turn, I'd argue that they still don't work even then, but you could at least see the design philosophy behind it. It could also explain Cloud Burst, but idk if this is how Cloud Burst works but if you use more than one of them in a turn does the [Combat Start] effect trigger once for every Cloud Burst you used? And in regards to Defense Power Down, it's pretty good against enemies with counters, and that's about it, but it is pretty good in that situation (I unironically used LCCB Rodion during my story mod fight against Gas Harpoon for phase 3)
I remember rolling on the gregor banner on day 1 (more like Hour 0 of the game lol, since it opened around 80 minutes before launch time), speedrunning as much of the story as can for the half-week 0 battlepass (ya'll remember that? kooky pm decisions as always) and roll on the gregor banner for the cool gcorp bugman.. only to get the stoic warp saltman. i thought "Hey, atleast i got a 000" Little did i know.... -That My body would become a machine that turns Deca-extraction tickets into WMeur- Happy 1 year anniversary ReindeerGOO. As they say, either you die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself be turned into a ProjectMoon victim. 👍
Fingers crossed that uptie 5 brings launch IDs up to par with their contemporary faction members, notably zwei across the board and LCCB rodion and ish, my biggest hope is that 5 gives either a skill 4 or makes the base 0 IDs get complete overhaul to better reflect their personal chapters
Next mention LCCB Rodion She got SUPER WEIRD Uptie 4 Gain some coin power is NEXT skill is blunt, and skill 3 gain 5 power if enemy hasnt recive damage yet. I use her for the EXP at t corp, but even level 45 uptie 4 has its issues.
I recently just completely maxed out my seven yi sang, (uptie 4 lvl 45) just because, well, I used him for the first 3 cantos when I just started. (I still remember being excited for canto 4) so I just felt a strange sense of nostalgia one day and decided to build him. So yeah, I do agree that even though launch id’s were kind of strange, they still have a special place in my heart.
You gotta love Lob corp Faust, you also have to remember that Season 1, at launch, ofc had Fluid Sac in it Now, Fluid Sac is 2 Lust, 4 Gloom, and 3 Envy... This also gave LC Faust the perfect coverage as a launch ID for using Fluid Sac Even till this day, only Zwei Faust, another 00 that came out waaay later, has the perfect colors on just Faust for using Fluid Sac I find this incredibly funny, not only is LC Faust an insanely good 00 at launch, it's probably still the best pure Faust ID for using Fluid Sac, because with UT4, her natural Evade skill becomes Envy, vs Zwei Fausts block, which is lust, and also by nature of being block, not exactly better than an Evade skill They really gave Yuri a lot of love, in many ways more than one
PM's refusal to buff or fix older IDs outside of new upties is really frustrating as even the good ones like R Heath and W Don have flaws in their kits and the weaker ones remain at the bottom of the bin. I don't want these IDs to be as strong as the meta ones I just want their kits to actually work and be coherent.
No joke, I use Kurokumo Rodion A LOT despite being mediocre, just because a lot of her basic traits works for my main team (Bloise-Prenvy). You can generate Poise, inflict Bleed, can easily slot/use a Pride skill on the go (Sky-Clearing Cut, What is Cast? or just using Counter) AND you have Gloom as a Skill 1? Hop in!
I remain convinced that positive statuses did not decay on turn end until very late in the development cycle. The poise and charge launch ids would be much more functional without that.
this is reason why i wish these gacha devs should go back to older characters or designs and update them, make them "good" seriously its great for new players especially in limbus trying figure out which skin id is good
Kurokumo Rodion is more intuitive and satisfying in one way than Blade Lineage Sinclair, because her S3 conditional is based on poise, not poise count, so you're very rarely going to crit with it and not get the bonus damage.
i do want to argue that it kinda makes sense that most launch ids probably won't get reworks or buffs because in Universe they are incredibly low ranking individuals in there mirror world. now should they get reworks or buffs? i think they should if just to make them a little better.
Bold to say no other ammo id will ever come close to quicj supresion, when funeral of butteflies is around the corner, also about the balance patch some people brought it up a lot of times but the way they cant do balance patches, see what happenwd with dawnclair, is coz as a gacha business would affect costumer trust and integrity of product iirc.
If i can say something myself unironically the time Wellvader put the video about the Shi team composition with a bunch of 00 like the faust lop corp and Liu Gregor i wasn't believe it but with time that team become one of the better teams i have and im happy to see how PM give us the Shi artifact in the Slash boundle who makes them some of the strongers ID in game (Ishmael Shi has a great S2 if you trigger her conditional) and im really hoping for having more Shi identities so they become useful without the artifact, like a Yujin ID in a Walpurgis who makes them take counter damage without getting stagger or something like that because i really like this overworked dorks
Consider, in the case of Kurokumo Hong Lu, the use of 2 skill 3s in 1 turn. Each would increase the bleed and paralyze of both at combat start, right? So it would be +2 to both instead of +1
Will note for cloudbust that it reminded me of a similar effect in LoR which increased amount of bleed applied ..... FOR THE ENTIRE TEAM. Yeah no wonder they got confused
I indeed remember the times when G greg was actually a great clasher (+5 OL moment) and a damage monster. Him and rabbit were among my first pulls on release. Also Liu greg somehow carrying a good part of Canto 3, which, believe me, was pretty hard back then.
Great video, but I'm surprised you didn't talk about the OTHER noteworthy ways Rcliff is terribly designed, like the fact that despite NEEDING Bodysack to work, he does not fuel Bodysack at all except with Quick Suppression (ie the skill you WANT to use Bodysack before,) granted, it is just 2 Envy and 2 Lust which isn't hard to fuel with other IDs, but the fact that he can't fuel it at all is frankly hilarious and makes me wonder if PM even realized he synergized well with it in the first place. Not to mention the fact that Quick Suppression being so good makes his Skill 1 and 2 genuinely worthless in longer fights, since (unlike LCCB Ishmael who actually has 2 meaningful ways of spending bullets that both provide significant benefits) neither his Skill 1 or 2 offer anything close to as substantial a benefit for using bullets as Quick Suppression, meaning that you're going to spend most of your turns with this ID specifically designed around aggression just Evade/EGO spamming until his Quick Suppression pops up in the skill deck cuz a tiny bit of bleed potency and charge (which bro literally has no use for) does not come anywhere close to the benefit of 4 fragile. Seriously, I hate Rcliff so much, bro is lucky he has the best Skill 3 in the game, since by god is he boring as hell to use.
![The Tragic Simplicity of Base IDs (and how to fix them) [Limbus Company]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/UNtmHa3OAxg/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Tragic Simplicity of Base IDs (and how to fix them) [Limbus Company]](/img/tr.png)
![What Makes a Tank? [Limbus Company]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KaO0BLntGTI/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Limbus Company] 5 WAW Lust EGOs? Man Lust Eating Good](/img/n.gif)
Massive shoutout to my editor (@therealESGOO) who helped me get this video out, he'll be helping out with more and more videos going forward, so please be nice to him as he learns the ropes!
Honestly so cool to see you pick up such an underrated Editor, can't wait to see his contributions!
real
Love how editor ESGOO realized the ESGOO curse took effect before the release of the video
haha
Are you an Umineko fan too by any chance? Just saying because it’s the second time I’ve heard one of the bgm tracks on your videos which is pretty cool.
My favorite implication in this game is that base ish having the fastest speed range in the game is implying that she is CONSTANTLY sprinting at FULL PELT during any combat
Imagine watching meursault walk his ass to the foe as ishmael BOLT pass him to hit a veteran really hard with a mace
Even as an amptutee she only loses a single speed point and spins circles around the rest of the cast.
The Virgin Ginger running at full speed vs the CHAD FRENCHMAN Powerwalking towards his enemies
@@Man_Person_Best_Hero Powerwalking into throwing hands (Gotta be the most throwing hands Sinner in the game fr)
That girl is too angry to die
@@Sleepyhead156
5-30 be like
Just got to multicrack Heathcliff section, THEY PREDICTED THE ESGOO CURSE BEFORE THE VIDEO EVEN CAME OUT 🎉🎉🎉
Next time they’ll invalidate ESGOO’s video retroactively!
@@bentobias737 quick supression will be buffed in the next patch
@@IvanIvanovich-qh9xtfinally rcliff becomes usable
Ah launch ids, such a goofy group.
Got the good, the bad and the bl outis.
You can be born good , bad or Sunshower heathcliff
Look, Decisive Dive was one of the better attack animations at launch. Clearly that took up all the budget allocated to BL 00utis.
@@axeltheinternetsweeper8082 You mean bl outis
To add to the silly state of launch numbers, Rabbit Heath still holds the trophy for the most amount of coins across ALL his skills, even when accounting for multi coin counters, reused coins, and bonus skills like BLSalt’s TCTB he still has more. The only ID that even comes close is Dieci Rodion who has 1 less than R Heath
Esgoo comments about a possible update to old IDs:
The secret pm worker watching the video: "ohh they want uptie V? Sure let's give em the update of old IDs for 300 thread and 150 egoshards and the lux staying the same!"
Evil kim jihoon will make uptie V cost 50 lunacy too
I would like if uptie 5 is level restricted
Like you get it for units at 50 level or higher.
Making it unecesary to revalance pre canto 7 and NOT Need even MORE resources.
If that would happen, I think Mariachi would still not get agro
@@FriendOfHatkid they instead get mariagroo, which makes them for a turn so that no enemies will target them at all
@@eryx0329Mariaggro pauses the game for 3 minutes while he dances to the Mama Mia! soundtrack complete with animations
I feel like an (un)surprising amount of the strangeness that came with Launch IDs boils down to Project Moon trying to shift gears after Ruina. Lots of the smaller quirky moments make more sense in the context of Ruina's systems, things like KK Hong Lu Cloudburst having a seemingly-redundant Combat Start buff to debuff application: In Ruina that'd matter for several reasons, like skill copying and reuse.
But can't you use Cloudburst twice in one turn if you hold it for long enough?
15:10 "He was improved by uptie 4"
I think you undersell it for the newbies. He was the official poster child for the improvement of upties as he was set as an example in their twitter post.
I though R Corp Ishmael was that, though. When uptie 4 came out, I remeber everyone (including myself) telling that the best id for uptie 4 is Reindeer Ishmael.
@@aspid164 Eh, it's arguable. R Ishmael was still technically usable, BL yi sang was just... utter garbage. And uptie 4 turned them both into one of the best ids
Especially as BL Yi sang was something everyone got if they were supporting the game and uptying him to 4 gave you one of the best clashers in the game and even if he critted everg single coin hed gain 1 poise count every skill 1, maintain poise on skill 2, lose 1 poise count on skill 3, this counts turn poise decay
BL Yi Sang, W Corp Meursault and R Corp Ishmael are for sure the 000 IDs who benefited the most from Uptie 4
@@aspid164 R. Ishmael went from good to top tier. She had a 13 16 22 rolls but her passive ate 15 SP on activation and her charge gain meant that without telepole don helping she would take 3 turns to get a mind whip at minimum. (4 if you were unlucky and your skill list was 3 skill 1/1 skill 3 at first)
At Uptie 4 her rolls go to 14 18 26 and her charge gain get better and mind whip cost 2 less. With that change her charge was guaranteed to be enough by turn 3. And her passive instead removing the sanity if she doesn't hit the enemy (Which honestly, logically doesn't happen with her rolls)
Basically she was an unit who became one of the best so of course you should invest in her, before she was good but held back by some meh passive/charge gain.
Meanwhile W. Meursault he still is not that good.
He went from terrible to alright. (And I say that as someone who use him because I like him)
Pre uptie 4 peoples complained about ishmael/don generation being slow. Meursault (and W. Faust) were legit unusable. Meursault basically needed to get hit a bunch to get enough charge to reliably use his skill 3 at full power. And like esgoo said 11 11 9 rolls are very bad.
His charge gain was : +3 -3 -8 at uptie 4 it's +6 -3 -8 Which is still not that good.
Also yeah they buffed his rolls but like what really saved him was regret. Without regret (with conditional that need you 5 charge so good luck on skill 3 use) they are 11 14 17
A 14 rolling skill 2 is still pretty bad. But hey with regret now he get a 12 19 24. But that mean no electric screaming so hard time getting the charge for skill 3 (so telepole don has to come save the day (and maybe multicrack heath will help too)
Still remember MaracasClair dodging Kromer like the plague
Ah, the good old days of launch. When you could get a black screen at the end of a Canto preventing you from going to the next one, Aida was the hardest fight in the game, G Corp Gregor was considered the best ID in the game, and KK Hong Lu was the cheap easy beginner option to melt through everything (except Aida). Oh, and Mirror Dungeon was literally just Win Rate spam. What a time. I miss early Limbus. The game's gotten so much better, but also... wow, what a time.
G Corp. Gregor was good relatively speaking, but the title of best ID at the time was definitely still Rabbit Heathcliff.
@@Mr.Stizblee Absolutely, but in the first few days to a week of the game, people had zero idea what was good or not so the general consensus was that G Corp Gregor (the first rate-up 000) was the best.
I did not ever hear about G-Corp Gregor being the best anywhere I heard much more fanfare for TingTang even back at 75% SP coin rolls
I remember getting Rabbit Heathcliff from the gacha, using him, and thinking "eh he's not that good". This was because I didn't have him at uptie 3 yet, so no quick suppression lmao
mirror dungeon is still win rate spam fuck you mean
One thing to remember about Launch is that in non-focused fights, the slowest person would be the main target for attacks. This is why tanks were designed to be as slow as possible to soak these attacks. However this targetting system made the game *extremely* volatile and snowbally (hi 2-18) so it was changed very early on leaving tanks with no way to actually *tank* until later.
tbh the non-focused fights in launch limbus is so chaotic. It's like you're just watching people having a fullblown street fight in the open.
@@RenShinomiya121lore-accurate
I just want to say, i wouldnt mind longer videos at all. Your content is great, and 40 minute+ long videos of yours sounds phenomenal to me
Waiting for that full limbus 10 hour gameplay retrospective fr
@@Yuri_Burger limbus company lore to fall asleep to ASMR when
@@jnoinmmr goo talks about kim jihoon for 3 hours asmr
19:14 At launch Branch of Knowledge was just a really high rolling ego that cost 0 SP and didn't have a dogshit passive so fueling it + S3 were good enough reasons if you wanted to use him considering Sinclair had no good IDs back then
Yes but a thing a lot of peoples forget is that also at launch sanity only moved the roll by only 20% so the heads tails rate was at max 70%.
So branch of knowledge (and don sangre del sancho) had the tendency to sometime not be the right choice.
(It also made unit like BL Yi sang better than what Esgoo make it seem (he still was bad don't get me wrong) but like enemy not rolling that high + luck being more present in skills meant that low coin power + high base could sometime save your ass.
Edit : I know it's a bug. But it was still in the game for a long while. So it impacted the game quite a bit.
Lets hear the ramblings, magic man
you could say it was a rambling man, oh wait they added another dimension shredder for that.
HOLY SHIT A W CORP MEURSAULT SECTION WHATTTT
Oh yeah, I forgot he exists because of R Meursault. I feel like a lot of people share that sentiment.
@@Birrihappyfaceits usually the opposite for me, i forget rhino exists because he’s only for bleed teams.
@@Silancetand not even that because his base bleed count isn't that good, he has 0 potency, skill 1 also does nothing and he needs to ramp up yo get to good bleed numbers when you have hook lu, kk ryoshu and ring ids outputting good bleed count and some potency without ramp up
Poise being so neglected despite critical hits only doing slightly more damage instead of the usual x2 feels bad man
Not mentioning the oddity of Release IDs having S1s that clashed better than S2s is a little sad, Larry. But, this is beautiful.
and of course grippy faust not a release id who had a better clashing S2 THAN A S3(though the sanity heal ofthe s3 was nice)
Wake up honey peak dropped
limbus REALLY should have had a closed beta test huh
Limbus needs playtesters as a whole
@@treedude4246 i mean it SHOULD have them now
But then what would Esgoo make content out of?
Yeah, as some people say here, getting a 40+ minute rant about all the IDs from ESGOO would be exctatic...waaahhh... Please, its fine to make longer rants! Its amazing! Watching you I literally forget the time exists, so them being longer is really only a benefit for us!
you forgot to mention, the real reason people actually liked mariachi sinclair: for like, somewhere between 2 weeks and a month, defensive skills could activate on the first opponent that targeted the defender, instead of whoever the sinner was targeting with it. So in human fights, sinclair's evade could actually carry. This was most notable for pre-patch chapter 2 where aida could 1 shot half of your sinners in 1 turn. Mariachi sinclair could go in, by himself, and dodge pretty much everything while passively lowering enemy stagger and getting absolute resonance for his S3 every turn.
But then of course, the targeting system in human fights was changed to be what it is today, and has been for like, 98% of limbus company's lifecycle. Still a notable footnote in the game's history.
I did not watch the whole video, but I'm convinced that they were just copying the LoR formula at the start, like effects described as "next coin deals +3 damage", it is so LoRish
Shame that the only id in this entire game that has "next coin gains X power" is...... base Heathcliff. Out of everything.
Launch IDs having drastically varying rolls is simply due to the fact that at launch you only have a 75% chance to roll heads at 45sp, which means rolls like 6+1+1+1 and 4+8+8 are balanced in a way, which isn't mentioned in the video.
Combined with the relatively low rolls of enemies at launch, it's easy to see why high base power was valued so much by PM that they gave them such low coin power.
No-no you can't use that card here!
They literally DIDN'T KNEW it was bugged and didn't give you a 1% per sanity, and they fixed it as fast as they get the knowledge about such vauge mechanic working incorrectly
So, no, it wasn't balanced around
Please, don't spread misinformation
It was just a bug.
@@ethylenediamine33Doesnt really justify why the Season 2 ID's are weird
Especially those like Sloshmael or Molar Sinclair who litteraly got replaced by Yuro Ryoshu for doing the same gimmick but better
Rosespanners roll allright even tho Rodion rolls is a bit lacking
Talisman Sinclair, Molar Office ID, Molar Ishmael, K Corp, and even Spicebush make sense tho
@@0sikin094WAIT IT WAS A DAMN BUG??????
@@Yuri_Burger yeah it was. They addressed it
I think it's something about "+45% out of 50%" instead of "+45% TO 50%" is how it worked
So, it gave a 70~% number instead of 95% it was supposed to.
PM has some of the wildest and funnies bugs I've seen personally)
There’s also the strange gimmicks of Ting tang Honglu and R corp Ishmael that I’m surprised weren’t mentioned in the vid. But I think they’re kinda cool on paper.
R corp ishmael having one big nuke skill as a charge id: But if you don’t have the charge (10 charge and consumes ALL CHARGE STACKS), a RANDOM unit will get hit with it instead, which CAN be your own sinners. Spawning a bunch of memes of how someone clicked win rate with her on the team and got clapped right there and there because ishmael only had 3 charge. This kind of team killing was only seen on EGOS but it was an interesting gimmick to look back on. But it’s not surprising why pm decided to never give it to an ID ever again. As cool as forcing you to read the id’s gimmick was.
and correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think we ever saw “+7 Damage” or “+[insert number here]” damage since his launch. I never used him, but i just think it’s funny they gave him extra damage. I would say something about it being guaranteed damage but I have no idea how it works.
The guarenteed damage is just flat damage, ignoring any resistances, exactly like bonus damage in LoR. Good for enemies with low resistances, and I assume it also goes through protection as well. However, I don’t think the numbers are large enough to be practical in battle.
TT Hong Lu's bonus damage gimmick can be seen on Ricardo... of all places. His "weak" envy skills have +3 flat damage for some reason.
Another more recently team killing ID would be Dark Flame Outis with her S3
Ting tang also has "reuse coin" and "reuse skill on kill"
Which where weird as fuck
The reuse coin work wonder on bosses tho, as broken part count towards its activation.
And i think kk hong lu skill 3 adding effect is for solo runs, when you use 2 or more of it.
R ishmael when she has 2 mindwhips ready, and you think both skill would've worked on +10 Charge.
Oh how i've learned from that mistake, Never again.
"Blunt fragility has been behind LCB Ishmael and Zwei Sinclair this entire time."
You know, I'm having flashbacks to Ruina. I think the devs did too. Historically it makes a lick of sense, I suppose, even if it wasn't specifically just "blunt" that was the problem but the circumstances around it.
Looking at these old IDs, I'm reminded of some of the first sets of cards for TCGs. Look at the first sets for Yu-Gi-Oh or MtG, and you'll find a similar phenomenon where because of unusually worded text, old ideas, lack of standards, etc, the cards can end up either being laughably bad, or completely breaking the modern meta.
Draw 2 cards, that wouldn't be a problem right? riiiiiight?
@@RenShinomiya121what if I drew three cards tho
I won't forget the services that G.Greg provided with his expendable health bar; thank you for the videos
So That No One Will Cry also has a 5 coin gloom skill
Kurokumo rodion was definitely one of those "designed to only work when they have multiple skillslots" ids :'D Kinda why I'm worried of if future focus on chain battles means no more multiple skill slots in combat even if you drop sinners from party
She's really good solo even without her 'LOL everything is a skill 3' passive, but....yeah.
I feel like the "[Combat Start] Inflict additional status effect yada yada" part of KK Hong Lu's kit is not le random. They must've planned something for it to be used later in the game but we are 1 and a half year now and the only major game mechanic introduced was chain battles and sapling of light ability.
I mean, in theory you can use his skill 3 more than 3 times and each one will have 3 extra paralize and bleed.
@@tcherlesonravel9117 wait does that actually work
@@Qobpyeah it's library of ruina thing
She cannot maintain Poise to save her life but you don't how good it feels when Yuri Faust's Skill 3 crits.
I still use both Yuri Faust and Sheeshmael in my Poise Haste team to this day and let me tell you, them deleting bosses in 2 turns still gives me goosebumps. I still kinda hate the change they did to sanity on dungeons though, the one where save spots resets them to 0, but i get why they do that, especially with the sanity change. It just means i can't use battle 1 to setup the team and then just use both of them to sweep the rest of the floor anymore.
If only Yuri had picked Nebuliser in the Canto I dungeon :(
I think the launch ID I'll have the biggest soft spot for for having all the weird Season 1 quirks is R Ishmael. I think I like using W Don more, but something about at Ishmael's kit is just "off" in a really strange way. She has one of, and arguably still does have, the strongest Skill 1s in the game, with 0 conditionals, a S2 that feels weirdly limp and strong at the same time (I think because S2s are considered the "baseline" of most IDs, and it feels rare to see a single coin one nowadays), a really admittedly strong but janky combat passive that makes you chain in weird ways, and of course, the ultimate funny move, the infamous Mind Whip.
I feel like the explanations for a lot of this stuff, besides obvious unfamiliarity with the system and throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks, was that they were basing IDs off of Ruina, when Ruina works as a completely different game. The thing from KK Hong Lu's S3 is a good example, that's an effect ripped right from the KK pages in Ruina, but it just makes no sense in Limbus. Really, they just had no idea what they were doing. But, as good as I think it is to have standards for units so that none suck major ass or are purely just numbercrept (Sorry G Greg, my first 000...), it does feel a little boring looking at Multicrack Faust going "Oh she probably rolls 11, 16, 16 with conditionals of +1/ +1/ +2, like most other units with these coin numbers" instead of launching the game after N Sinclair drops, seeing the infamous 30, going "There's no fucking way" and then sharding him immediately.
They could go a little crazy with the 00s like having those weird ass high rolling skill 3s
@@victorpedrosoceolin3919 I mean Yuri Faust is one of those weird ass high rolling skill 3s with consistent big damage if she keeps rolling high. She simply deletes enemies with 1coin 26 with 256 damage on crit and it's always a joy to see.
3:39 techinally WRONG
Tanks worked, by the OLDEST normal fights System.
To elaborate, at launch limbus had the same chain system as now.
HOWEVER the big diference is that Defence Skill will PASS the sinner's turn.
This had 3 effects:
-Because you pass the unit is ALMOST unforgettable, and the next unit will have the clash.
-when you are out slotted on one side you can see how the chain comes back to the SLOWEST UNIT FIRST then follow as normal again.
-The defensive skill will activate BEFORE reciving Any attacks, making them more valuable than NOW, Even to enemies.
Meaning, if you had Bad clash and will get BIG damage if lost, you better PASS the turn, so now the next unit can clash an even lose the clash and recive little damage.
ADITIONALLY the slowest sinner will begin geting Clash+number of slot attack on themselves.
Thus why Base MEURASAULT Is the quintessential tank:
Gain Defense skill up and protection from skills
Gains protection from Ego and Ego passive.
This man could tank 100 HP of damage for 1 turn.
And the Best Strat where Solo runs, as defensive skill activate automatically, meaning you can LOSE A clash and it WILL activate, meaning character like ryoshu where BROKEN With multi slot.
But people where to DUMB to use so PM DUMB IT DOWN.
By making defensive skill "clashable" (not concider a clash by the game but you get what it does)
AND Stagger unit wont get their speed at 0 anymore.(This last one was mainly a reward for staggerin, but also a heacy punish if outsloted.
THIS Had severe concuences:
1 Defensive skill wont Active UNLESS it designates "Clash happen"
2 Defensive skill can be literally IGNORE by "clashing" with another defensive skill
This Included COUNTER.
But then PM realize counter just didnt work and REVERTED IT to Insta efect BUT NO THE REST FOR SOME STUPID REASON.
Heck bosses are having to WORK AROUND this a anti defense abuse to even work
With "at combat start" in place of "when use" making their activation unnecesary
Or "gain more slots" so you either offset the defense or clash
Not to mention One sided defense skill act WEIRD.
They wont activate UNTIL the unit it target attacks it.
Which is what the old system did with mix clash and defense but restricted to the target of the skill.
And this dosnt work for sinners, so FUCK tanks says PM
So Fuck you, i say back.
*untargetable
Not unforgettable, stupid autocorrect
ALSO Wcor meurasault was DEPENDANT on 2 thing.
Using his block a Lot, like R cor ID does.
We had 3 CHARGE EGO AT LAUNCH
3 pruple wolves, Fast, heathcliff and the giver of 10 charge DON.
So i thing they make him in base kf that, which is still very STUPID.
And charge faust also had charge problem, not as severe as meurasault but still steugfle.
@@ericquiabazza2608 Faust and Don Telepole were not on launch,Don's released like a month after and then Faust's a week after her's with the Seventis banner
9:45 the funny thing about preqoud yi sang is that our sawsbuck enemy actually applies 5 fragile with the exact same move, that being relentless stabbing but for some reason they didn't even want to limit the fragile yi sang got and jist removed it all together, fearing rabbitclif. A really funny and strange case of a boss Vs an ID.
18:05
Aint lantern don's S2 also a reverse conditional
...i mean ill be able to tell im right when i find out im one of like 3 million mentioning this
god damn it.
@@therealESGOO have fun, im about to one of a shrillion mentioning this
Your folly will not go unnoticed
(Also, hope your having a good day! Mariachi sinclair > chef gregor)
Vergilius having ridiculous coin amount might mean that 5 coins is gonna be standard for any color fixers or grade 1 fixers we might have to fight in end game :'D so that makes those five coin skills funnier
6 coin GS:V
@@halften5818nah, 1 coin GSV with +50 and 50 at base :trol:
Happy anniversary Esgoo!!!! Thanks for being our favorite limbussy
Kurokumo Hong Lu inflicts +1 on S3 because it's supposed to work with his Passive, which inflicts +3 Bleed on the last coin of his last Skill, making it inflict +4 instead.
How good this is is debatable but it's uh, a mechanic they wanted us to use ig.
I really want more fleshed out Shi Associations IDs, Yujin page was one of my favs in LoR. Really wanna see them get their deserved showing
This is a really fun video, thanks for sharing it.
I think one of the things to remember is about early Limbus was that sanity was much less important, iirc max sanity only adding like a 20% chance for a coin to be heads. Head flips were much harder to guarantee, so consistency was REALLY powerful on IDs, often more valuable than clash power.
This doesn't really make some of the totals forgiveable, but I think expresses an early design goal of swingy ids vs consistent rollers who you could be sure would win clashes if they started in your favour.
[15:03] Not only was W Meursault fixed by Uptie Tier 4, he was the POSTER CHILD for Uptie 4! I distinctly remember that when they were posting about the specifics of Uptie 4 in the announcement, they specifically picked this ID to show off all the buffs he would be getting. It's like they were silently implying: "yes, this ID is garbage, and let's fix that."
@@Flygoniaks He’s still not that great though 😭 11/14/17 isn’t bad but he still only gets charge from S1 and passive
@@DistressedCrab 11/14/17 is below standard for 00s nowadays, he's still ass lmao
@@lighto5083below standard? for an id with that many coins?
11/14/12 is the standard for 2 stars with coins like that you shitter.
So you're telling me 5 coin skills are dead?
*Whips out Gregor's Solemn Lament...
I would honesty like to see 5 coined skills again but better balanced and perhaps more on same turn effects but with fast ids.
Please make a part 2 or even 3 just looking through all the weird and wonky ID
This was very entertaining
And no mention of mariachi sinclair not only having some of the worst numbers ever, but that the only buff was conditional coinpower to make his first two skills at acceptable 2 star level
The weird thing with Kurokumo Hong Lu's S3 definitely feels like a relic of card design from Ruina, with cards that were meant to boost your application of statuses or boost specific damage types for the whole turn. But then I suppose at some point they said 'nah' and just... made it kind of useless? Honestly I kind of wish we got more stuff like that, it's a neat little niche.
The thing with Kurokumo Hong Lu S3 and Kurokumo Rodya S2 is probably that Project Moon expected "giving an extra Skill slot" to be something important for certain IDs. Like, the Skill don't make sense in the context of Focus Encounters (unless you use less than 5-6 sinners) with only 1 Skill Slot, but when you have KK Rodya with two slots she can maintain that Poise count using the S2 two times per turn, etc, etc.
there has to be power creep since there's only so much sideways progression you can do and you theoretically want people to try the new ids out.
The KK Hong Lu S3 status increase is extremely funny because I can only think of a single corner case where it applies and makes a difference: Using the skill more than once in the same turn. So it basically only ever happens in Canto content, where you need to be really lucky to see multiple S3s line up at once and like, Mirror Dungeon runs where you convert his other skills to his S3. Instead of cloudcutter.
Honestly I think it would be a neat gimmick for a non-focused encounter oriented ID that wants to line up multiple of the same skill in a turn. Maybe someday.
Man, how I wish I could go back to the dark ages of launch.
When you uptie'd a character to 3 and got the whole kit, and didn't miss crucial fucking stats just because you're broke on shards and threads...
But that means i can't just use my lv1s that i'm too broke to use tickets on mirror dungeons.
@@RenShinomiya121launch mirror dungeon had all IDs start at the same level and you chose to level them up at nodes tho
@@Qobp but their max is based on your current, not a set level.
I think a large part missing from the video is the context of early limbus having a drastically lower chance to roll heads at 45 sanity, and IDs with high base power but low coin power (BL Yi sang and BL Sinclair for example) were actually pretty good because they consistently outclashed low rolling enemies in early cantos when for instance TT hong lu could roll a 5 on S3 and lose the clash
I believe that was a bug
@@floor_tile it affected the game up until the first railway, and if the IDs were tested in a practical environment (does it feel good to use in the first cantos or is it dead weight) then high base power actually mattered a lot more and that's probably why we see such low coin power on them, they would just be too consistent and deal a lot of damage otherwise
My nosgolgia for the Launch IDs stems from the fact that to this day Reindeer ishmael is my best ishy ID. Not to mention she carried me for a long time before I made any coherent teams. So I'll always have a soft spot for the sinner tasing reindeer
I wish to see more stuff like ting tang hong lu. the idea of getting more stuff from either having the enemy bellow a health treshold or by reusing coins by killing enemies (I love onrush) is just cool. let my man snowball
I remember when I had just got into Limbus and saw your Kurokumo Hong Lu video, I think you were still in the under 100 subscribers territory at that point and I distinctly remember going "man i like scripted content like this and hope there will be more in the future", it's been a great year of content, thanks for being my lunchtime youtuber of choice, and thanks for the peak videos Esgoo!!! Here's to above and beyond!
Another thing I'd like to point out is also how god awful many counters are at launch. Like seriously they're often 1 coin skills that sometimes deal less damage than their skill 1. Stuff like Sunshower or Pequod Heathcliff's counters are the good examples of a good counter. But y'know, they came later.
Old IDs also have really high stagger thresholds, so counters were super unlikely to actually work... And I remember Sunshower Heath getting a 2 coin counter as being "special," but thankfully they're using it more.
Petition to again start making all around bad ids, but having one really good thing about them which ultimately makes them unreasonably powerful
Umineko music? In a funny Limbus rant? More likely than you'd think.
I just rewatched the Kurokumo HongLu video like an hour ago now this is out!?
this must be destiny
My theory on why so many launch IDs have such weird kits that dont really work with one skill slot is that they had planned for the nonfocused encounter system where they gain skill slots to be more common or a system similar to ruina skill slots, hence why IDs like KK rodya poise count only works (barely) if she has 2 skill slots.
I'd love for the old IDs to be buffed, I love KK rodya as a concept, my favourite sinner with an awesome counter skill gimmick but she just isn't a functional kit on her own and it just saddens me.
Its esgooning time or something.
But on a seriius note, thank you for making these videos. They are alm enjoyable and I always look forward to them. It is great having quality content in a niche, and you aswell as other PMoon/Limbus CCs do soo good.
Let me hear your rant, funny man
Thank you, Esgoo! This is…honestly super neat to look at, and I hope that I get to see how you’d ‘fix’ this by the end of the video.
I think a lot of the launch ids were created with the intent to be better with more skill slots. Like kurokumo Rodion and LC Faust can gain poise and poise count by using their skills 2’s twice, but nowadays it’s too slow to actually use effectively.
Not gonna lie, I still want an event/game mode that's actually centered around solos, so you just get to take one ID, but they get to start out with multiple skill slots.
@@edgedancer4750I would prefer if it was 3 units max type of game mode
@@LTDLetsPlays That works too. I'll take most forms of experimentation with the formula to be honest. (Just wait for the Sinner kaleidoscope mode where it's multiple IDs all form one Sinner.)
Launch? I thought you said, Lunch! Hahah- [gets consumed by the fairies]
Thank you for being our golden Limbus TH-camr. Well, one of them I guess. Pride Month resonance was fun :3
Can't wait for the new census video
Honestly, I think most of the launch IDs were designed with the regular combat system in mind, and with that IDs would have 2-3 skill slots. So a lot of the bad poise and charge IDs make slightly more sense when you think about them using more than one poise/charge gaining skill a turn, I'd argue that they still don't work even then, but you could at least see the design philosophy behind it. It could also explain Cloud Burst, but idk if this is how Cloud Burst works but if you use more than one of them in a turn does the [Combat Start] effect trigger once for every Cloud Burst you used? And in regards to Defense Power Down, it's pretty good against enemies with counters, and that's about it, but it is pretty good in that situation (I unironically used LCCB Rodion during my story mod fight against Gas Harpoon for phase 3)
I think at this point we can do a pokemon rap with limbus ids
I remember rolling on the gregor banner on day 1 (more like Hour 0 of the game lol, since it opened around 80 minutes before launch time), speedrunning as much of the story as can for the half-week 0 battlepass (ya'll remember that? kooky pm decisions as always) and roll on the gregor banner for the cool gcorp bugman.. only to get the stoic warp saltman. i thought "Hey, atleast i got a 000" Little did i know.... -That My body would become a machine that turns Deca-extraction tickets into WMeur-
Happy 1 year anniversary ReindeerGOO. As they say, either you die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself be turned into a ProjectMoon victim. 👍
Rcliff quick suppression is the reason why its a active detriment to use concentrated fire in 99.99999999999% of scenarios
Esgoo saying this video ends now as a complete uninterrupted sentence shocked me
Fingers crossed that uptie 5 brings launch IDs up to par with their contemporary faction members, notably zwei across the board and LCCB rodion and ish, my biggest hope is that 5 gives either a skill 4 or makes the base 0 IDs get complete overhaul to better reflect their personal chapters
Functionally Gaze from N Faust is just 2 Blunt and Pierce frag next turn, so there was effectively a good blunt frag skill almost from launch
Wow, you convinced me that LCCB Ishmael is just BUSTED
Next mention LCCB Rodion
She got SUPER WEIRD Uptie 4
Gain some coin power is NEXT skill is blunt, and skill 3 gain 5 power if enemy hasnt recive damage yet.
I use her for the EXP at t corp, but even level 45 uptie 4 has its issues.
Ah ESGOO made this I can't wait for them to rework them all because he said that
Ah yes, my favourite hard hitter
Base Meursault
I recently just completely maxed out my seven yi sang, (uptie 4 lvl 45) just because, well, I used him for the first 3 cantos when I just started. (I still remember being excited for canto 4) so I just felt a strange sense of nostalgia one day and decided to build him. So yeah, I do agree that even though launch id’s were kind of strange, they still have a special place in my heart.
You gotta love Lob corp Faust, you also have to remember that Season 1, at launch, ofc had Fluid Sac in it
Now, Fluid Sac is 2 Lust, 4 Gloom, and 3 Envy...
This also gave LC Faust the perfect coverage as a launch ID for using Fluid Sac
Even till this day, only Zwei Faust, another 00 that came out waaay later, has the perfect colors on just Faust for using Fluid Sac
I find this incredibly funny, not only is LC Faust an insanely good 00 at launch, it's probably still the best pure Faust ID for using Fluid Sac, because with UT4, her natural Evade skill becomes Envy, vs Zwei Fausts block, which is lust, and also by nature of being block, not exactly better than an Evade skill
They really gave Yuri a lot of love, in many ways more than one
Multicrack faust.
Yuri Faust gets a pass because it's the closest we'll ever get to playable Yuri and that saddens me greatly.
You the GOAT Esgoo! Looking forward to see more of your Limbus content in the future!
PM's refusal to buff or fix older IDs outside of new upties is really frustrating as even the good ones like R Heath and W Don have flaws in their kits and the weaker ones remain at the bottom of the bin. I don't want these IDs to be as strong as the meta ones I just want their kits to actually work and be coherent.
You make the best limbus Contant. Should definitely just casually cover the new ida as they come out by the way.
A whole year since the Hong Lu vid and 30k+ subs, this has been quite the ride
No joke, I use Kurokumo Rodion A LOT despite being mediocre, just because a lot of her basic traits works for my main team (Bloise-Prenvy). You can generate Poise, inflict Bleed, can easily slot/use a Pride skill on the go (Sky-Clearing Cut, What is Cast? or just using Counter) AND you have Gloom as a Skill 1? Hop in!
I remain convinced that positive statuses did not decay on turn end until very late in the development cycle. The poise and charge launch ids would be much more functional without that.
this is reason why i wish these gacha devs should go back to older characters or designs and update them, make them "good" seriously its great for new players especially in limbus trying figure out which skin id is good
Kurokumo Rodion is more intuitive and satisfying in one way than Blade Lineage Sinclair, because her S3 conditional is based on poise, not poise count, so you're very rarely going to crit with it and not get the bonus damage.
Wake up honey, ESGOO just dropped a video
i do want to argue that it kinda makes sense that most launch ids probably won't get reworks or buffs because in Universe they are incredibly low ranking individuals in there mirror world. now should they get reworks or buffs? i think they should if just to make them a little better.
18:05 Incorrect! Lantern Don's S2 has a reverse conditional, applying Rupture Count only if below a certain number already.
Grats on 30k! If they ever do a balance patch I hope they buff up the liu ids a bunch
Bold to say no other ammo id will ever come close to quicj supresion, when funeral of butteflies is around the corner, also about the balance patch some people brought it up a lot of times but the way they cant do balance patches, see what happenwd with dawnclair, is coz as a gacha business would affect costumer trust and integrity of product iirc.
If i can say something myself unironically the time Wellvader put the video about the Shi team composition with a bunch of 00 like the faust lop corp and Liu Gregor i wasn't believe it but with time that team become one of the better teams i have and im happy to see how PM give us the Shi artifact in the Slash boundle who makes them some of the strongers ID in game (Ishmael Shi has a great S2 if you trigger her conditional) and im really hoping for having more Shi identities so they become useful without the artifact, like a Yujin ID in a Walpurgis who makes them take counter damage without getting stagger or something like that because i really like this overworked dorks
Consider, in the case of Kurokumo Hong Lu, the use of 2 skill 3s in 1 turn. Each would increase the bleed and paralyze of both at combat start, right? So it would be +2 to both instead of +1
No no, mr goo, by all means, PLEASE go on
Will note for cloudbust that it reminded me of a similar effect in LoR which increased amount of bleed applied ..... FOR THE ENTIRE TEAM. Yeah no wonder they got confused
I indeed remember the times when G greg was actually a great clasher (+5 OL moment) and a damage monster. Him and rabbit were among my first pulls on release. Also Liu greg somehow carrying a good part of Canto 3, which, believe me, was pretty hard back then.
Though the true Canto 3 hero used to be baseCliff. May still be.
Great video, but I'm surprised you didn't talk about the OTHER noteworthy ways Rcliff is terribly designed, like the fact that despite NEEDING Bodysack to work, he does not fuel Bodysack at all except with Quick Suppression (ie the skill you WANT to use Bodysack before,) granted, it is just 2 Envy and 2 Lust which isn't hard to fuel with other IDs, but the fact that he can't fuel it at all is frankly hilarious and makes me wonder if PM even realized he synergized well with it in the first place.
Not to mention the fact that Quick Suppression being so good makes his Skill 1 and 2 genuinely worthless in longer fights, since (unlike LCCB Ishmael who actually has 2 meaningful ways of spending bullets that both provide significant benefits) neither his Skill 1 or 2 offer anything close to as substantial a benefit for using bullets as Quick Suppression, meaning that you're going to spend most of your turns with this ID specifically designed around aggression just Evade/EGO spamming until his Quick Suppression pops up in the skill deck cuz a tiny bit of bleed potency and charge (which bro literally has no use for) does not come anywhere close to the benefit of 4 fragile.
Seriously, I hate Rcliff so much, bro is lucky he has the best Skill 3 in the game, since by god is he boring as hell to use.
Great video as always, they make for some incredible background noise when one is mercilessly grinding away.