About Sunshower Heathcliff: I've responded to a few people, but I didn't realize how many people really wanted to see him in this video. To you all, you have my word. Sunshower Heathcliff shall get his own video in the near future. For now though, he didn't make it because he isn't designed to tank for anyone but himself, making him more of a selfish damage ID at his core. I understand the reasoning behind thinking he should be a tank though. G Gregor is also being brought up, who can certainly absorb a lot of damage, but high stagger threshold made me ultimately leave him off the list. As much as I may love Bug Guy, he isn't a tank like everyone else on this list is, and I was very particular in my criteria for what is a 'tank'. Thank you for watching regardless, the support has been incredible.
Yeah, I wouldn’t agree that SS Heath is a tank either. Even though he gets protection from sinking, once you manage to get his SP low enough, I find myself wanting to unload all his sinking as soon as he gets it. I treat the sinking as more just an interim thing to help him survive until he can shift to being on the active offensive from his build up phase at the start.
Even if he counted, he would get a terrible score. 8 HP healing every turn does not make him effectively a tank, nor an effective tank. Plus, his clashing sucks and he sucks.
Zwei Greg was my first Uptie 4, and I don't regret it for a second. He's become the core of any team I want to build. Lung cancer is the only thing between him and immortality.
2 important information that makes tank useful that you missed: - Tanks often have 1 stagger threshold at 50% only. Furthermore, they can reduce their stagger to 0 so they cannot be staggered anymore (Mexinclair and N Mersault). You can freely use them for tanking then regen back with Mersault S3. - Tanks often have Guard as their defense skills. Uptie 4 buffs this up by GENERATING SINS REGARDLESS IF YOU CLASH OR NOT (Counter and dodge still needs to clash). This turns tanks into Sins generator since they almost receive 0 dmg when using it with damage resistance.
I was aware of this, I didn't mention it since it is almost overkill for anything besides rupture stacking, which is good of course. The Health Regen is already insane...hence why 1000 health is absolutely a lowball estimate for his health.
Dimension Shredder Hong Lu's EGO passive states that when Hong Lu dies, he instead does not die if he has any amount of charge on him. This includes dying from K Corp Ampules, allowing you to get above 4.
LCCB Ishmael is a support that transitions into a meh tank once her kit is spent. Her skill 2 and 3 becomes useless once her bullets are gone so having her eat hits and spam paralysis is far more useful. Even if the paralysis is wasted on her low speed most of time.
@@therealESGOO yes but you die in two turn of using dimensions shredder + K corp ampules.And you are left with not a lot of health too, so if you have bleed you are probably dead. You will never probably enter is those conditions
Simping aside, Zwei Gregor is the first Sinner I've ever been able to solo with. (I"m not great at this game and so don't have the hang of soloing nodes very well) his defense and health pool are both stupid high and his damage output is great too. Also Legedermain and Lantern work for adding Tremor to enemies + restoring health if his HP pool gets too low. Yeah, Gregor is so unbelievably good in Zwei.
Damn that base mersault finish still got me tearing up, I like how it keeps the theme of base ID as prisoners who keep them from being their best potential ( mirror IDs ) due to them not dealing with their past , yet I wish they have more of a exceptional 5 uptie considering they should just make the uptie of the base go higher with each chapter encounter
Zwei gregor is cracked, i dont have an uptie 4 cause ive not played a massive amount of time, and i spend around, but hes been CRUSHING it, he does suprising damage for a defensive unit, and he just refuses to die too, hes very good
Story of my life, that Flexible Suppression already moves mountains, and PM decided to give him ANOTHER skill like that. Oh also he takes like 4 damage from Lethal attacks
Personally,as someone who just sparked AND uptie 4'd Ballsault meurmeur, he really just...amazing for charge comps,compared to the other options on my little meurmeur (Wcorp meurmeur, that is) and brings charge focused teams THE fast interceptor tank they needed, while also being able to utilize charge incredibly well and synergizing with meth bunny heath's skill 2, alongside that, he is a source of lust with his skill 3, which is something that a lot of charge teams lack, if you give up Wfaust for Nfaust, you can cover all sin resources and have more than one source of lust on a charge team that focused on envy/gloom resonance, which is currently my fave setup, Specially since it lets you spam a lot of gloom/envy heavy egos like AEDD with wild abandon, since your envy and gloom coffers are literally endless. Still hoping we get a video on charge! But charge simping aside, what about an EGO uptie Tierlist/EGO spark tierlist? i need a video to shut up the don telepole haters with :P (i love 42 charge on corrosion and 30 on awakening i love 42 charge on corrosion and 30 on awakening). If you are confused, Yes, i call meursault my little meurmeur because he is my little meowmeow, i love my autism man. EDIT:To add to this, if you ever decide to make a charge video or just want me to go full 🤓for 42 hours straight, be sure to consult me if you want either on reddit or discord, i have 400 hours on limbus of which i have dedicated 380 of them for charge teams only, please help me. EDIT 2: I AM FUCKING GOING INSANE I LOVE CHARGE I LOVE CHARGE I LOVE CHARGE AND I GRINDED 400 RYOSHU SHARDS IN 3 DAYS JUST FOR THIS NEW ID.
Charge teams are something I will keep in mind. There’s lots to talk about since a lot of EGO since release have been charge related to some capacity. With Telepole Don clearly the centerpiece. I can’t make any promises of course, but it would probably be a good video to make, undeniably.
@@therealESGOO Glad to see your response! one thing id love to hear about is your opinion on characters that instead of spending charge (RoseRodya, for example), just hoard it to get their bonuses, which is a conundrum ive been thinking about for a while, since with teledon and other charge ego like gregor AEDD, You are almost always close to max charge if you are not spending it, alongside exploring what trully makes IDs like Wcorp meursault, specially on uptie 3 so underwhelming, personally, i think its all tied about what they use their charge on, and a bit less on charge generation, specially since Don telepole is our lord and saviour. ALSO, i would love for you to talk about Heath AEDD's EGO passive on your sunshower Video, i feel like it makes him quite a bit tankier, and adding to that, the fact that his self-paralyze counter guarantees a 54 power heath telepole overclock even at 45 sanity, which is not something that is talked about enough imo.
In MD2 Hard I've been running 7th Outis and Zwei Faust and the combination of intercepts and protection spreading has been really helpful. The fact that Zwei Faust in just a 00 is what encouraged me to use her since I didn't have the points to bring in another 000 and I have no regrets.
Hong lu is definitely the tankiest unit in a team, but i feel like in solo Gregor can actually stay alive way longer. He can build up insane amounts of shield with his skil 1 to mitigate clashes you can't win, and in later turns skill 3 is almost guaranteed to get that +3 coin power. As an extra he can fuel perfectly both lantern and ledgerdemain, so he can hit all weaknesses, paralyze and heal all at the same time. I managed to completely solo md2 with roach man without having the buff that removes his stagger threshold, and i even got Guido as a boss (which is a known solo run killer, especially for slash ids).
I can respect a fellow Gregor fan, but I think everyone is underestimating just how much shield he gets from his s1. With like 8 defence up, he gets like half his health in shield. And once you get a chain of defence up, you're gonna keep going until you basically have a shield double Zwei Gregors health, which I think makes him just as good as K Corp Hong Lu Great video btw, really loves it
The relatively recent addition of priest gregor is probably one of the stronger examples of a tank character. He has the largest health pool in the game, aggro, he buffs himself over time, he has a strong guard, conditional healing through the interactions with his guard/passive/bloodfeast and (very good) healing on hit on his skill 3. And while he doesn't have the best speed, he has enough to be able to intercept a decent amount of attacks and pretty decent clash power, particularly in a bleed team. His main problem is that he doesn't have a low stagger threshold, so if he gets hit once then he's going to be staggered since he always puts himself below the threshold with his self-damage. But if he survives that stagger, he'll just become a monster - well, more of a monster than a bloodfiend already is I guess. Though he also leans into support with his bloodfeast generation(which pretty much only barber Outis benefits from for now) and damage since his skill 3 just deletes anything when he's on low health.
I just need to say this my man, the video pacing is beautifully done and informational. Despite the small rants, i quite like it as you arent those robotic lifeless Human Text to Speech people that read off of a script in a monotone voice.
I myself run duo Normal MD2 with Zwei Greg and Faust and they do a great job in it. Faust will often buff herself for having the lowest health and Greg getting Faust's passive every turn means he can normally keep up the coin increases. The fact that they both fuel two strong EGOs with Fluid Sac and Ledgermain means having time it right to aoe a group rather than tanking up.
I fucking thought I accidentally opened umineko ost or some bug happened while last meursault part started. bro how based can you be. your other videos were good and youre a nice talker so instantly I tuned in and subscribed the other day but now I have even more respect for you
I knew adding Umineko OST would catch some people off guard lol, it was fitting and Dead Angle is one of, if not my favorite song on the soundtrack. Glad you’ve been liking the videos.
@@therealESGOO I recently started reading the manga and while reading I listen to the ost in the background and try to remember which one played in which scene in the vn and play it according to what scene I'm reading on the manga, re-living the feelings when I read the vn 2 years ago at some extent even though I remember what will happen next. made me appreciate how fascinating its ost is again. if I tried to pick my favourite(s) I would be lost in thought about hours lol, all of them are beautiful.
Oh god i qant an update on this topic SOOOOO much, like the whole archetype has evolved so much, being treated way better with the new content, Dieci Rodya and Meur, queegcliff, priest Greg, just so much to talk about!
I only recently got Limbus Company and somehow pulled K Corp Hong Lu, and, Holy Shit, not only has he carried me through the game so far, but also I want to Rail Him.
Very nice analyzation, while I usually don't run tanks on my HMD2 team, the closest thing I use to a tank is Shi Ishmael since she has a nice health pool and can hit back with her counters plus it can also help her set up 4 hit flashing strikes.
I think you could've mentioned Fluid Sac for Zwei Faust - As you mentioned Ledgermain. The amount of healing increases not just her effective health, but the whole team's - As well as constantly applying 2 Protection every turn, being completely fundable by her on her own, too. She really grew to be one of my favorite IDs - Very fun to use and surprisingly capable of doing solos.
Yeah, for now the whole tanking in Limbus is "choose the one you like and forget about everyone else", so I just choosed R Mersault because I'm charge fan, and rolled with it. Maybe the farther we go, the more tank ID's we will need to bring, since for now bosses have around 3-4 attacks per turn, and so doesn't require more than one tank (if you bring two, you can slack off even more lol). And before we didn't bringed them at all, because all the content was piss easy. So yeah, I kinda happy for them getting glowup with aggro introduction and content becoming harder.
Hello everybody, my name is Markiplier and welcome to Five Nights at Freddy's, an indie horror game that you guys suggested, in mass, and I saw that Yamimash played it and he said it was really really good... So I'm very eager to see what is up. And that is a terrifying animatronic bear! "Family pizzeria looking for security guard to work the nightshift." Oh...12 a.m. The first night. If I didn't wanna stay the first night, why would I stay any more than... five... Why I stay any more than two- hello?
I personally really like to use Rhino Meursault as my tank, as I just find his overall design cool and resistance to Blunt being very effective. Usually my Hong Lu is either using Tingtang or Kurokumo in my team comps, although whenever I busted out K Corp Hong Lu he really is just insane for his role.
Ngl I believe it's the heaviest cons of K Hong, because you miss out two great damage dealers you could bring instead. And that's why I cherish R Mersault, because you don't miss on anything, if you bring him as your main tank. It also relates to Gregor, because he was never that good before, so being a good tank is a good enough role for him.
As another rhino Meursault user , I agree on what you said. Not only is he cool by himself. (I’m mentioning BEFORE going absolute tank of death mode.) When on the mode I just mentioned , he goes crazy and obliterates any unfortunate soul to lose a clash against him. (Especially against Rhino Ram) Plus , since I have a Charge specialized Team (W Corp. Ryoshu , R Corp Meursault and etc.) I do agree he was a absolute unit.
@@joby5838 Late reply but that is I think the kindest possible way of saying "all but one of Meursault's IDs are complete dogshit so you can just run the one that's the least terrible"
"What makes a good tank" entry two is actually rather weird for me, because I find having reliably low OR high speed is important. Fast characters can redirect during focused battles, but slow characters will take extra hits during gang wars, so you kind of want them to be the tanks instead. And you'll always take extra hits in those gang wars. It's very likely that you'll blow through the first wave too quickly and be sent to the next wave outnumbered on skill slots.
That’s true, however most slow characters already fall into the high health category, so I didn’t think it was worth mentioning. Whereas most people wouldn’t think that a high speed character is a good tank, which is why I put more emphasis on it. Alongside my inherent bias towards abnormality fights, since that is usually the harder content of the two.
Zwei Rodion is actually pretty reliable, I've used her on a zwei team on md2h and she was able to soak up 4000 damage, which was the 2nd highest amount of damage taken in my entire party. Her kit is weird but when it works it works.
Very good video! I've definitely spent a decent chunk of time trying to place each of the sinners into different "archetypes" just being offense, defense, and support, and you've done a really strong job at defining what you believe to be the crucial qualifications for which identities belong into the Tank category!
It’s not easy for sure. There’s lots of small things in each IDs kit that justify calling them many things. Thankfully, tank is the easiest to define in my opinion. Though maybe that’s just due to the research I did for this video lol.
I know you didn't really touch on it in the video, but I feel like it is somewhat notable to bring up that Seven Association Outis has only one stagger threshold (And more notably, that means zero in Mirror Dungeons, with that one benefit). There's probably other tank IDs also like that, but frankly, I don't tend to use them much other than Outis (or I'm bad at paying attention). Liking your content, keep it up.
Im just binging your videos now, its giving me a lot of insite on my team and how its built, ive realized my weak link is my sinclair blade Lineage now
Honestly, I really hope they rework and add the "Taunt" mechanic that we saw in some early development footage in a future update. Aggro is definitely a nice addition to make tanks more viable, but having it only work in focused encounters means there's an entire type of battle where tanks aren't nearly as helpful as they _could_ be. Maybe debut the Taunt ability on some tanky IDs that don't have the ability to draw aggro right now (LCB Sinner Meursault, Los Mariachis Jefe Sinclair, and R.B. Sous-Chef Gregor come to mind) and use it for future tanks as well. I'm assuming the Taunt debuff was cut due to some technical issues, but with the state the game is right now, I think they can revisit it without it causing any major problems? Here's how I'm thinking the Taunt would work: -Taunted enemies are forced to target the Sinner that inflicted the Taunt for one turn (they can target any skill slot on said Sinner) -If multiple Sinners Taunt the same enemy on the same turn, the most recent Taunt has priority and overrides the older ones -In focused encounters, the skills of Taunted enemies can be redirected; however, in regular encounters, they cannot be redirected -Certain enemies (such as some bosses) may get a passive that makes them immune to Taunts, if it's needed for game balance Oh, and in terms of how taunts will be visually represented: All the skill slots of a Sinner that Taunted an enemy will be highlighted in red (like how skill slots with Aggro are highlighted in yellow-orange) and have a red exclamation mark to the right of their skill slots. And I believe there is an unused debuff icon or two that would work perfectly for Taunted enemies.
I noticed something: from what I can remember in non abno clashes it’s always the lowest speed ids that may get targeted a lot taking away from others. While this may not be useful in 99% of fights who knows maybe in the future this will be good when in a human fight the enemies start off with more slots than you. This actually gives the low speed a purpose, needs testing tho. Just talking outta me arse from me remembering in the past where my lowest speed is in a human fight got target more than ones
Used to be a stage like that where enemy have more slot than you. It was fun but people start complaining till it got nerfed Or atleast that what I heard cause I for the life of me can't remember which stage it was.
As a new player who does not have the vast majority of these, I agree on 7 Association Outis as a good tank. I quite frequently found myself using them to pull hits from the slower sinners or even being the only sinner who even could intercept to begin with. Add on applying paralyze and they're the reason I survived a lot of particularly grim turns without my team being shattered.
Personally, in my opinion, a big issue I have with tank IDs in general is an issue I have with playing defense in this game in general; offense is simply the much better defense. There are too many issues that can stack up as a situation goes on if you take a hit, than if you just...didn't take any hits. As the seasons go on, more and more new enemies deal more damage (have you SEEN how much damage you take from those Red Sheet dudes even on IDs who are resistant to Blunt?) than things like Guard and Counter can efffectively deal with at all. Evade on the other hand is just extremely good because you are avoiding damage altogether (assuming you landed heads), and its even better if there are effects on it (N Faust lowering enemy SP per dodge cannot be understated). Tank IDs further compound this issue with the fact that the other best defense in the game is winning clashes, and I've noticed many Tank ID's overall skill aresenal is mediocre (12-15) to lacking (NSault having 6 fucking clash power is a complete joke, and Zwei Rodion only having an 8 is not an improvement) with some exceptions (K Hong Lu and Zwei Gregor are absolute beasts in this regard). And further this with a speed issue many have, they're overall struggling in my opinion in a game that doesn't seem like its combat was quite made for that (different story for the Mirror of the Lake which is FAR more balanced and viable for tanks becausemost enemies won't do 50 damage in one move over there).
Zwei Sinclair enjoyer here, I always appreciate his passive being a free 10% dmg reduction but I think you missed the fact that Defense power also applies to Counters Granted, Counters right now are shite, like just win the clash, but im praying that they send more counter focused ids I use him in md2h with SS Heath and KK Rodya as they both have the best counters in the game right now, and they also have gloom to activate his res if either one of them is on his range This gives both SSHeath and KKRodion(with 10+ poise) an effective +4 to counter damage and also take 10% less damage so they can counter, which isn't really much but thats still pretty good Him being a slow speed also lets him protection to staggered allies as they are technically next to him in the dashboard, though he definitely benefits more on having higher speed He is definitely shit but my counter boosted dopamine hits is too high, I was unironically dissapointed that faust doesnt give endurance to feed more to my team comp but atleast greg got combat prep hehehehe
This is actually pretty insightful. Since KK Rodion’s speed range is bad that seems like it would work. The defense power up to counter is cool, especially for SS Heathcliff. If only there were gloom counters in the game.
K Corp Hong Lu was the first ID I uptie IV (because I am Simp) and I run rupture (I got a lot 7 association characters). I'm also a new player so I haven't really had to think all that much yet, but I've only ever seen his helmet like 3 times, but he tanks everything. I luv my boi
Wow I can't believe he got... Markiplier to do a cameo in his video! Jokes aside, you've been pumping awesome content lately. I've been craving for someone to do actual comprehensive ID reviews instead of showcases, and, well... Here it is, the dream come true :) Keep up the good work, and may the genius of Faust assist you
That's why I started this channel, no offense to Limbus content creators, but none of it interested me. So I decided to make the interesting content, though it took a while of goading and convincing myself to do it. Now I'm glad I did and also overwhelmed with the sheer amount of support I've been getting.
Having watched the video I just have two things to note: 1: LCB Mersault's entire purpose is Chains of Others... which none of his ID's can solo fuel, and every other Mersault ID does better (Incidentally the sheer power of CoO makes Mersault one of the better LCB IDs). 2: Since this video was made before Dieci Rodion, where would you rate her on the Tank-o-Meter?
I'm very (very, very) new to this game, so I dont really understand a lot of whats happening haha but ive just been binging your videos in prayers that maybe ill understand this game eventually. I pulled kong lu as my 2nd 3* ever earlier today and watched this video specifically because i was like "i wonder if he's good lol". turns out yes. 1000 effective hp is crazy. need to learn how to actually build teams once im not so limited by characters lol
I think I know the reason why early tank IDs like Zwei/Mariachi Sinclair and base Meursalt are so insanely slow, making them largely unable to clash, and considering many later tank releases give far better speed dice to tanks, it seems like a case of PM not properly testing out a cool seeming mechanic, learning about a better way to do it later on. When your team has more action slots than there are enemies to target, the last couple of skills will loop back around and target the first enemy, going down the skill chain in the same order. For the enemies though, it goes in the opposite order, as their "extra" skills begin targeting the slowest sinner and working their way backwards up the skill chain. That means if the enemy team ends up with more action slots than you have targetable slots, they'll start focusing on the slowest unit, likely a tank, allowing them to take more hits. It's a neat idea, and one that seems like it would work rather well. Just, the problem with that is, when exactly does that ever happen? You also gain more action slots as the battle goes on, and since you'll be defeating and staggering enemies, they'll rarely ever even have enough action slots to start looping back to target the tanks. The only times I've ever really seen it happen to me is in XP ticket dailies, where I'm focusing on speedrunning them, causing the second wave to usually have one or two more slots than my team, I genuinely don't think I've ever seen it happen in a story mission or high mirror dungeon floor, where the mechanic would actually matter. The overall increase in speed die rolls as more Ids have been released supports this I think. All of the most recent tanks like KcorpHongLu, Rhinosault, or ZweiGregor either have way higher speed rolls, ways to consistantly gain a ton of haste, or both. It seems like PM initially planned for tanks to be much slower, didn't properly test how useful it would be, and then began to design new tanks with the lesson learned in mind. Yet sadly the original release tanks are all still slow as hell, and uptie 4 didn't really do much for them. I really wonder, what would the game be like if the class designs were reversed. Tanks began at really high speeds, and DPS units were super slow. That way DPS units could start dealing damage after an enemy has been weakened, meaning it's more likely they'll stagger an enemy and start really getting the damage going.
Zwei Rodion is kinda the only one that disputes that claim, and who knows, maybe W Hong Lu, but I think Zwei Rodion was almost made to be bad from the start, and made usable by Uptie 4. DPS being slow would have it's own slew of problems, but I think Human fights are just hard to balance the roles around, since you have far less control.
@@therealESGOO True, Zwei Rodion is insanely slow. Though that, in addition to how bad she is as you've said, makes me wonder if she was intentionally designed as a test-run unit, an ID that tries something so "out of their comfort zone" that they intentionally make them weak to avoid accidentally breaking the game. Being a tank designed around poise means she could, at least on paper, be both insanely tanky and also insanely high damage from non-stop criting at the same time. She wants count rather than potency, so she won't be critting that often in reality, and that's without even bringing up her horrid clashing, but perhaps it's future proofing in case they decide to release an ID with a support passive, or an EGO, that lets you gain more potency? The amount of poise count gaining effects Zwei Rodion has means that she could extremely easily start stacking poise potency if someone released with a "X ally gains +1 potency from poise skills". She's slow to give her the benefits of having her crits land on staggered enemies, but also has a ton of aggro at UT4 to keep enemies focused on her. Hell, based on Outis' Sunshower EGO being Poise focused, with extra bind and even protection in the passive, it seems like if Rodion ever gets a Sunshower EGO it would be a perfect pairing for her Zwei ID. Not that that makes her any better at the moment, or excuses that PM still released a terrible ID, but at least that's my spitball guess about why she's so pitifully designed at the moment. A test ID to try out a hybrid tank-DPS, with some future proofing in mind. In a ton of ways, looking at her reminds me of several characters from Fate Grand Order. That game has different classes that are weak to, or strong against other classes, and practically every time there's a Servant released for a brand new class, they feel like Rodion. Seemingly intentionally designed to be, if not outright bad, then at the very least "not even close to "okay"". Then, the second Servant released is always a powerhouse that does that class' thing super well, as though that first servant was just a test-run to see how far they can actually push the class in terms of balance. I really wish PM would be more willing to just, tweak numbers directly, rather than rely almost entirely on the Uptie to make them stronger.
Suncliff made it into the very early drafts of the script, but ultimately, he would have been difficult to contextualize against the other tanks. I came to that same conclusion, that he is a DPS who is rewarded for being hit more than a tank. Though I considered mentioning how high his effective health is, since he gains so much protection.
The best tank for me is The One Who Shall Grip Sinclair. Large amounts of health, great speed range, excellent healing for the entire team when he kills someone with his Impending Day ego. But what make him better than even K-Corp Hong Lu in my experience, is his unbelievable clash power and damage. His skill 2 and 3 have so many coins and their minimum roll is so high that he almost never loses a clash, and since he kills everything so fast, the other sinners are in far less danger because battles last fewer turns. He’s a staple of my mirror dungeon 2 hard runs, and on top of everything I just mentioned, he synergizes with both N-Corp and burn teams because of the incredibly powerful burn and lust EGO Gifts in there.
Not sure if this is a troll comment but N Sinclair is not a tank, He's a negative sanity DPS... Outside of his kit having literally nothing related to tanking, his effective health also falls below even the squishiest of actual tank sinners. Edit: What you defined was basically a good DPS lol. Also, EGOs aren't taken into account when evaluating a sinner's ability to perform a certain role, only their kits are. Otherwise, every Faust would just be considered a healer.
Really Good video! I love the way you dissect units Although I have one thing I would disagree on, and it was during Mariachi Sinclair ID segment Evade being the best defensive skill type only applies in type of content where tanking isn't really a thing, since Evade in (at least current) hard content, is probably the worst possible Defensive skill, due to high rolls on enemies
Depends really, against single coin attacks, Guard is better, since those ceilings are usually too high for evade. For multi coin skills you can dodge the majority of them, greatly reducing damage you would take if the clash is completely unwinnable. However the main point was that it is theoretically infinite effective health. Which is a pretty interesting thing for a tank to have.
Extra thing to note about N Sault: If on a team that can almost consistently get 4 wrath res chains, if he ends up under 50%, his clashing power becomes more powerful due to the 1 fanatic and 1 power up from his combat passive (and since he's on the team, the enemy will most definitely have at least 1 nail in them) on top of 3 prot. So his rolls become 13, 14 and 16 (at U4), which is still not the best, but a whole lot better. So he kinda sort of functions like a shi ID, where you want him under half and you could consider his S3 as a Panic Button in case he reaches dangerous hp levels. Though getting him under half is the hard part...
That’s true, honestly 4 wrath res is pretty hard on its own, especially if you want to actually synergize him with N corp. It is unfortunate he is so incentivized to be below 50% HP despite very clearly struggling to get below 50% lol.
Shoutout to the lvl 15 base Faust that I spammed guard on to beat the canto 4 pre-dungeon boss because my dumb ass didn't select a support ID. It took a dozen attempts and the one where I succeeded was where I was least prepared, the irony.
Good video as usual, I actually use N corp Meursault a lot, I use him in a way that whenever I can't win a clash then I'll just counter, meaning I don't lose out on damage while also reducing the damage taken a little. I would say N corp Meursault is *the* Tank other than K corp Hong Lu and... probably Zwei Gregor...? I haven't tested Zwei Gregor yet because I'm broke on shards and lunacy, but I have done some theories and he does seem very good. That's all from me 👋
As the guy who's team is 3 tanks and 2 dps (R corp Meursault, Heathcliff , K corp Hong Lu, Cinq Don and Zwei Gregor) for normal stages and 4 tanks + 3 dps for MD2 hard( Zwei Faust and Shi Ishmael) I am obligated to like this list
Until I watched this video, I've played Seven Outis and Zwei Greg as damage dealers. Outis in particular shredded everything (Canto I and II) with Field Command. Canto III isn't very fun for them so I'm glad I can use their defensive skills as an alternative.
As I'm a charge team user metaslave, I do like using W faust as one of the 2 00 identities for MD. She clashes worse than L faust, and L faust does provide lust, which feeds fluid sac better, but I don't have to mald about her dying constantly, at least.
She doesn't really clash much worse except on her S3. She also uses Fluid Sac better when she does fire it because she's slower, so everyone else can have an eGO attack and immediately refill sanity.
I wonder why Sunshower Heathcliff or G Corp Gregor not on this list. Sunshower is meant to be hit and has one of the strongest defensive skills. G Corp Gregor is arguable a regen tank with his effective health. Why aren't they on this list?!
The short answer is they don't meet the criteria I set at the beginning. I admit Heath's defense skill is strong, but it's strong in an entirely different context. G Gregor is more meant as a sustain ID than a tank, since his stagger threshold is so high, he can't make full use of the healing, unfortunately. These IDs would have been too far from the actual topic of the video. Though a separate Suncliff video may be in the works soon...
G Greg's has -2 to defense level, +5 offense and *3* very high staggers. How is he supposed to tank if his only sustain comes from _hitting_ ? 3~7 speed is nice but his S2 and S3 aren't really great at clashing, wich creates a problem: You won a clash, he probably didn't get hit, you have no aggro so no one else is hitting him, so his regen is +0hp. And going for unapposed attacks with an id at +5 offense and _3_ staggers isn't a great idea since his effective hp is at ~40~60 iirc You lost a clash, he got hit with negative defense lvl meaning he probably took more damage, he lost hp and now is probably close to getting staggered, on top of having +0hp again. If ID requires you to feed it slots to be an effective tank, it's not a tank, it's a dps with sustain skills.
@@therealESGOO They are bruisers, combination of doing damage and a bit of "tanking". Well K hong lu, 7 outis, R Mersault, W mersault and zwei gregor. Can do a lot of damage and/or inflict debuff than permit more damage on the ennemies, so i think they are still more powerful than those two IDs, because they have boths of the two worlds and better or more easy to trigger. Sunshower Heatcliff hype me more than N sinclair, because that's probably on of the strangest IDs out there and i like that.
My arguments is about expanding the definition of a tank. Since some characters straddle the line between tank and other classes. Not that they will necessarily be the most effective tanks. Both tend to have a trade-off of maximum health pool for effective health pool, or require "Tanking" a particular amount of damage to activate their gimmick. I'd argue G Corp Manager Corporal Gregor has more effective health and sustain in combat compared to regular characters due to his ability to lifesteal. When it comes to Lobotomy E.G.O. Sunshower Heathcliff, he has higher effective health since he's able to turn stacks of sinking into protection, so his health pool is far more vast than it initially appears. I don't know about stagger bar being the defining statistic that makes something a tank or not. I don't believe effective clashing skills matter for a tank, since you have characters such as Lobotomy E.G.O. Sloshing Ishmael
Can we all agreed that out of all the IDs Meursault by far has the most? And by that point we can just call him Monsieur Mur? P.S "Wow! I can't believe he got Markiplier to do a cameo in his video" If you don't understand, check the bingo card once more ;)
Zwei Greg goes nuts in a solo, it only gets better after Zwei faust and sinclair provide support passives, and the new gremlin Don from Walpurgis night means he heals on hitting a taunted skill slot; once you get to enough skill slots on him, he stops taking damage
I would also like to point out that his Skill two actually gives him Defence up 3 and not Defense level up, so once you get the ball rolling and have like 3-4(?) skill two in the deck you can roll up to 12 Defence level up which increases his Guard significantly, making him the highest guard ID
Most other rpgs and gachas have damage taken as an inevitability so you need someone to take that damage which is where Tanks come in. But in Limbus Company you have the choice to not take damage via clashing, unless its a one sided attack which you often can’t redirect to a Tank anyway. This means that any ID good at clashing never takes damage at all so there is no inevitable damage for Tanks to take.
My only gripe with Tank IDs is that there is currently no content that they can heavily capitalise. Sure, they can face tank in MD2H but most of the time it's better to win clashes with EGO. Hoped that PM will give some enemy that must be tanked in the future.
Yeah, totally. Some tanks are actually pretty strong in terms of kit, but they just…don’t have a great use right now outside of exactly hard mirror dungeon and going into content under leveled.
@@hayabusahithosi9587 I want them to design an enemy you want to tank, e.g. "If this unit clashes, it gains X buffs next turn. If not, gain X debuff". Current MD2H is just a glorified EGO spam at the moment.
I think its pretty funny that the Meursault situation got mentioned because with the release of Zwei Faust I have this same problem with her, loving both W and Zwei a lot and having them both at uptie 4, I still can't really choose which one I'd rather run.
Can you make a video about bonus damage id (poise and other kinds of conditional bonus damage). I always find it so weird about giving bonus damage instead of coin value.
In my opinion, it’s easier to split tanks into two categories: one is real tanks Zwei Greg, Rhino Mersault and K Hong Lu, and the other is a bunch of confused people.
Comparison I can make between Kong Lu and Zwei Gregor to single out those two specifically. Kong Lu (K Corp Hong Lu) is more close to basically Senator Armstrong because ha ha funny ampule nanomachines. That and also he's constantly taking damage to intentional proc the passive. Whereas Zwei Gregor is the Bulldozer from the Payday series. The enemies are up against a wall and he's the freaking wall. With it being super amusing to intentionally clash lose Standoff multiple times for a ludicrous shield.
Honestly, very good point. I generally don’t like to consider EGO, me mentioning Legerdemain was maybe a mistake in that regard. Since it is his Base EGO though, not mentioning it was certainly a mistake. It is a damn good EGO.
Me: *Runs Liu team and powers through everything. * Also me: "What are these funny words you speak?" Jokes aside, this video explained tanks really well. Glad to see that other people are starting to see how tanks work in LC.
![An (Exhaustive) Overview of Charge [Limbus Company]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/o5jsSKC4Auc/mqdefault.jpg)
![An (Exhaustive) Overview of Charge [Limbus Company]](/img/tr.png)
![The Tragic Simplicity of Base IDs (and how to fix them) [Limbus Company]](/img/n.gif)
About Sunshower Heathcliff: I've responded to a few people, but I didn't realize how many people really wanted to see him in this video. To you all, you have my word. Sunshower Heathcliff shall get his own video in the near future. For now though, he didn't make it because he isn't designed to tank for anyone but himself, making him more of a selfish damage ID at his core. I understand the reasoning behind thinking he should be a tank though. G Gregor is also being brought up, who can certainly absorb a lot of damage, but high stagger threshold made me ultimately leave him off the list. As much as I may love Bug Guy, he isn't a tank like everyone else on this list is, and I was very particular in my criteria for what is a 'tank'. Thank you for watching regardless, the support has been incredible.
Good points.
Agreed with the comment above,good point.
Overall great video! You're one of the best Limbus Company youtubers rn,thank you for your videos!
Yeah, I wouldn’t agree that SS Heath is a tank either. Even though he gets protection from sinking, once you manage to get his SP low enough, I find myself wanting to unload all his sinking as soon as he gets it. I treat the sinking as more just an interim thing to help him survive until he can shift to being on the active offensive from his build up phase at the start.
How about Chef Gregor?
Even if he counted, he would get a terrible score. 8 HP healing every turn does not make him effectively a tank, nor an effective tank. Plus, his clashing sucks and he sucks.
Zwei Greg was my first Uptie 4, and I don't regret it for a second. He's become the core of any team I want to build. Lung cancer is the only thing between him and immortality.
I uptied Yi Sang Lineage and he's been my HEAVIEST DAMAGE DEALER LMAO
Dieci rodya popped up (shes better zwei greg)
@@RavenKnight2408 I uptied spicebush Yi sang to IV and im not listening to anybody telling me to switch to W sang
@@Hot_RashBlazeBoil that's my next one to uptie. How's the damage output and sinking effect? Is it good?
@@RavenKnight2408 it’s pretty good, skill 2 is an AOE blunt, and all skills are 3-coins, plus 4+10 evade
>appears out of nowhere
>drops best limbus analysis videos
>refuses to elaborate further
I will not elaborate further. True.
I mean that's what the analysis is for, to elaborate HAHAHA
@@loristnorton3723well he does not elaborate further
As a Gregor fan I’m legally allowed to agree with this list, also because it’s really in depth and good
It's funny how base Meursault being such a bland tank fits perfectly with his character. Guess Dante just forgot to tell him to be a good ID?
2 important information that makes tank useful that you missed:
- Tanks often have 1 stagger threshold at 50% only. Furthermore, they can reduce their stagger to 0 so they cannot be staggered anymore (Mexinclair and N Mersault). You can freely use them for tanking then regen back with Mersault S3.
- Tanks often have Guard as their defense skills. Uptie 4 buffs this up by GENERATING SINS REGARDLESS IF YOU CLASH OR NOT (Counter and dodge still needs to clash). This turns tanks into Sins generator since they almost receive 0 dmg when using it with damage resistance.
17:11 You forgot that if you have dimension shredder.
The death on ampules can be negated
I was aware of this, I didn't mention it since it is almost overkill for anything besides rupture stacking, which is good of course. The Health Regen is already insane...hence why 1000 health is absolutely a lowball estimate for his health.
Wait,how?
Dimension Shredder Hong Lu's EGO passive states that when Hong Lu dies, he instead does not die if he has any amount of charge on him. This includes dying from K Corp Ampules, allowing you to get above 4.
LCCB Ishmael is a support that transitions into a meh tank once her kit is spent. Her skill 2 and 3 becomes useless once her bullets are gone so having her eat hits and spam paralysis is far more useful. Even if the paralysis is wasted on her low speed most of time.
@@therealESGOO yes but you die in two turn of using dimensions shredder + K corp ampules.And you are left with not a lot of health too, so if you have bleed you are probably dead.
You will never probably enter is those conditions
Simping aside, Zwei Gregor is the first Sinner I've ever been able to solo with. (I"m not great at this game and so don't have the hang of soloing nodes very well) his defense and health pool are both stupid high and his damage output is great too.
Also Legedermain and Lantern work for adding Tremor to enemies + restoring health if his HP pool gets too low.
Yeah, Gregor is so unbelievably good in Zwei.
Damn that base mersault finish still got me tearing up, I like how it keeps the theme of base ID as prisoners who keep them from being their best potential ( mirror IDs ) due to them not dealing with their past , yet I wish they have more of a exceptional 5 uptie considering they should just make the uptie of the base go higher with each chapter encounter
Zwei gregor is cracked, i dont have an uptie 4 cause ive not played a massive amount of time, and i spend around, but hes been CRUSHING it, he does suprising damage for a defensive unit, and he just refuses to die too, hes very good
Story of my life, that Flexible Suppression already moves mountains, and PM decided to give him ANOTHER skill like that. Oh also he takes like 4 damage from Lethal attacks
Personally,as someone who just sparked AND uptie 4'd Ballsault meurmeur, he really just...amazing for charge comps,compared to the other options on my little meurmeur (Wcorp meurmeur, that is) and brings charge focused teams THE fast interceptor tank they needed, while also being able to utilize charge incredibly well and synergizing with meth bunny heath's skill 2, alongside that, he is a source of lust with his skill 3, which is something that a lot of charge teams lack, if you give up Wfaust for Nfaust, you can cover all sin resources and have more than one source of lust on a charge team that focused on envy/gloom resonance, which is currently my fave setup, Specially since it lets you spam a lot of gloom/envy heavy egos like AEDD with wild abandon, since your envy and gloom coffers are literally endless.
Still hoping we get a video on charge! But charge simping aside, what about an EGO uptie Tierlist/EGO spark tierlist? i need a video to shut up the don telepole haters with :P (i love 42 charge on corrosion and 30 on awakening i love 42 charge on corrosion and 30 on awakening).
If you are confused, Yes, i call meursault my little meurmeur because he is my little meowmeow, i love my autism man.
EDIT:To add to this, if you ever decide to make a charge video or just want me to go full 🤓for 42 hours straight, be sure to consult me if you want either on reddit or discord, i have 400 hours on limbus of which i have dedicated 380 of them for charge teams only, please help me.
EDIT 2: I AM FUCKING GOING INSANE I LOVE CHARGE I LOVE CHARGE I LOVE CHARGE AND I GRINDED 400 RYOSHU SHARDS IN 3 DAYS JUST FOR THIS NEW ID.
Charge teams are something I will keep in mind. There’s lots to talk about since a lot of EGO since release have been charge related to some capacity. With Telepole Don clearly the centerpiece. I can’t make any promises of course, but it would probably be a good video to make, undeniably.
@@therealESGOO Glad to see your response! one thing id love to hear about is your opinion on characters that instead of spending charge (RoseRodya, for example), just hoard it to get their bonuses, which is a conundrum ive been thinking about for a while, since with teledon and other charge ego like gregor AEDD, You are almost always close to max charge if you are not spending it, alongside exploring what trully makes IDs like Wcorp meursault, specially on uptie 3 so underwhelming, personally, i think its all tied about what they use their charge on, and a bit less on charge generation, specially since Don telepole is our lord and saviour.
ALSO, i would love for you to talk about Heath AEDD's EGO passive on your sunshower Video, i feel like it makes him quite a bit tankier, and adding to that, the fact that his self-paralyze counter guarantees a 54 power heath telepole overclock even at 45 sanity, which is not something that is talked about enough imo.
Oh Christ I didn't think about that oh god.funny how he is both a Fox and a rabbit in alternate timelines.
Damn, these videos really deserve more views, they’re really well made and are extremely useful. Keep it up!
In MD2 Hard I've been running 7th Outis and Zwei Faust and the combination of intercepts and protection spreading has been really helpful. The fact that Zwei Faust in just a 00 is what encouraged me to use her since I didn't have the points to bring in another 000 and I have no regrets.
thank you for literally carrying the guide vids for the limbus community!!!!!!
Hong lu is definitely the tankiest unit in a team, but i feel like in solo Gregor can actually stay alive way longer. He can build up insane amounts of shield with his skil 1 to mitigate clashes you can't win, and in later turns skill 3 is almost guaranteed to get that +3 coin power. As an extra he can fuel perfectly both lantern and ledgerdemain, so he can hit all weaknesses, paralyze and heal all at the same time. I managed to completely solo md2 with roach man without having the buff that removes his stagger threshold, and i even got Guido as a boss (which is a known solo run killer, especially for slash ids).
I can respect a fellow Gregor fan, but I think everyone is underestimating just how much shield he gets from his s1. With like 8 defence up, he gets like half his health in shield. And once you get a chain of defence up, you're gonna keep going until you basically have a shield double Zwei Gregors health, which I think makes him just as good as K Corp Hong Lu
Great video btw, really loves it
I don't even have to finish the video to know that this is peak content
The relatively recent addition of priest gregor is probably one of the stronger examples of a tank character. He has the largest health pool in the game, aggro, he buffs himself over time, he has a strong guard, conditional healing through the interactions with his guard/passive/bloodfeast and (very good) healing on hit on his skill 3. And while he doesn't have the best speed, he has enough to be able to intercept a decent amount of attacks and pretty decent clash power, particularly in a bleed team.
His main problem is that he doesn't have a low stagger threshold, so if he gets hit once then he's going to be staggered since he always puts himself below the threshold with his self-damage. But if he survives that stagger, he'll just become a monster - well, more of a monster than a bloodfiend already is I guess.
Though he also leans into support with his bloodfeast generation(which pretty much only barber Outis benefits from for now) and damage since his skill 3 just deletes anything when he's on low health.
I just need to say this my man, the video pacing is beautifully done and informational. Despite the small rants, i quite like it as you arent those robotic lifeless Human Text to Speech people that read off of a script in a monotone voice.
Thank you very much. I try my best to make sure these videos flow smoothly. I’m glad that it is effective.
I myself run duo Normal MD2 with Zwei Greg and Faust and they do a great job in it. Faust will often buff herself for having the lowest health and Greg getting Faust's passive every turn means he can normally keep up the coin increases. The fact that they both fuel two strong EGOs with Fluid Sac and Ledgermain means having time it right to aoe a group rather than tanking up.
I fucking thought I accidentally opened umineko ost or some bug happened while last meursault part started. bro how based can you be. your other videos were good and youre a nice talker so instantly I tuned in and subscribed the other day but now I have even more respect for you
I knew adding Umineko OST would catch some people off guard lol, it was fitting and Dead Angle is one of, if not my favorite song on the soundtrack. Glad you’ve been liking the videos.
@@therealESGOO I recently started reading the manga and while reading I listen to the ost in the background and try to remember which one played in which scene in the vn and play it according to what scene I'm reading on the manga, re-living the feelings when I read the vn 2 years ago at some extent even though I remember what will happen next. made me appreciate how fascinating its ost is again. if I tried to pick my favourite(s) I would be lost in thought about hours lol, all of them are beautiful.
Shoutout to Zwei Gregor for carrying me til Canto 5 and tanking the damage off of my 4HP Faust
Oh god i qant an update on this topic SOOOOO much, like the whole archetype has evolved so much, being treated way better with the new content, Dieci Rodya and Meur, queegcliff, priest Greg, just so much to talk about!
project moon once again showing off how much they love honglu (literally not a single bad id yet)
5:25 i only noticed this watching the vid third time. Youuuuuuuu... i was not prepared, you have drawn a smile to my face.
I only recently got Limbus Company and somehow pulled K Corp Hong Lu, and, Holy Shit, not only has he carried me through the game so far, but also I want to Rail Him.
Very nice analyzation, while I usually don't run tanks on my HMD2 team, the closest thing I use to a tank is Shi Ishmael since she has a nice health pool and can hit back with her counters plus it can also help her set up 4 hit flashing strikes.
I think you could've mentioned Fluid Sac for Zwei Faust - As you mentioned Ledgermain. The amount of healing increases not just her effective health, but the whole team's - As well as constantly applying 2 Protection every turn, being completely fundable by her on her own, too.
She really grew to be one of my favorite IDs - Very fun to use and surprisingly capable of doing solos.
Thanks for the video bossman,
This made me consider uptieing Zwei Gregor
Subscribed. Not because your content is useful, but because you too are a Gregor believer.
Yeah, for now the whole tanking in Limbus is "choose the one you like and forget about everyone else", so I just choosed R Mersault because I'm charge fan, and rolled with it. Maybe the farther we go, the more tank ID's we will need to bring, since for now bosses have around 3-4 attacks per turn, and so doesn't require more than one tank (if you bring two, you can slack off even more lol). And before we didn't bringed them at all, because all the content was piss easy. So yeah, I kinda happy for them getting glowup with aggro introduction and content becoming harder.
Hello everybody, my name is Markiplier and welcome to Five Nights at Freddy's, an indie horror game that you guys suggested, in mass, and I saw that Yamimash played it and he said it was really really good... So I'm very eager to see what is up. And that is a terrifying animatronic bear! "Family pizzeria looking for security guard to work the nightshift." Oh...12 a.m. The first night. If I didn't wanna stay the first night, why would I stay any more than... five... Why I stay any more than two- hello?
I personally really like to use Rhino Meursault as my tank, as I just find his overall design cool and resistance to Blunt being very effective. Usually my Hong Lu is either using Tingtang or Kurokumo in my team comps, although whenever I busted out K Corp Hong Lu he really is just insane for his role.
Ngl I believe it's the heaviest cons of K Hong, because you miss out two great damage dealers you could bring instead. And that's why I cherish R Mersault, because you don't miss on anything, if you bring him as your main tank. It also relates to Gregor, because he was never that good before, so being a good tank is a good enough role for him.
As another rhino Meursault user , I agree on what you said. Not only is he cool by himself. (I’m mentioning BEFORE going absolute tank of death mode.)
When on the mode I just mentioned , he goes crazy and obliterates any unfortunate soul to lose a clash against him. (Especially against Rhino Ram)
Plus , since I have a Charge specialized Team (W Corp. Ryoshu , R Corp Meursault and etc.)
I do agree he was a absolute unit.
@@joby5838 Late reply but that is I think the kindest possible way of saying "all but one of Meursault's IDs are complete dogshit so you can just run the one that's the least terrible"
@@zeph769 Essentially, yeah.
Cinq Outis just being a better Mariachi Sinclair *and* a better Seven Outis in one tank-wise is pretty funny
"What makes a good tank" entry two is actually rather weird for me, because I find having reliably low OR high speed is important.
Fast characters can redirect during focused battles, but slow characters will take extra hits during gang wars, so you kind of want them to be the tanks instead.
And you'll always take extra hits in those gang wars. It's very likely that you'll blow through the first wave too quickly and be sent to the next wave outnumbered on skill slots.
That’s true, however most slow characters already fall into the high health category, so I didn’t think it was worth mentioning. Whereas most people wouldn’t think that a high speed character is a good tank, which is why I put more emphasis on it. Alongside my inherent bias towards abnormality fights, since that is usually the harder content of the two.
Zwei Rodion is actually pretty reliable, I've used her on a zwei team on md2h and she was able to soak up 4000 damage, which was the 2nd highest amount of damage taken in my entire party. Her kit is weird but when it works it works.
Very good video! I've definitely spent a decent chunk of time trying to place each of the sinners into different "archetypes" just being offense, defense, and support, and you've done a really strong job at defining what you believe to be the crucial qualifications for which identities belong into the Tank category!
It’s not easy for sure. There’s lots of small things in each IDs kit that justify calling them many things. Thankfully, tank is the easiest to define in my opinion. Though maybe that’s just due to the research I did for this video lol.
I know you didn't really touch on it in the video, but I feel like it is somewhat notable to bring up that Seven Association Outis has only one stagger threshold (And more notably, that means zero in Mirror Dungeons, with that one benefit).
There's probably other tank IDs also like that, but frankly, I don't tend to use them much other than Outis (or I'm bad at paying attention).
Liking your content, keep it up.
Very cool video. Honestly, the only thing I can say is that I want more of those "evasion tanks", since I actually like the use of defensive skills.
Wait a minute... this is one of the few videos that escaped the ESGOO curse
Im just binging your videos now, its giving me a lot of insite on my team and how its built, ive realized my weak link is my sinclair blade Lineage now
My man really spoiling us with a 20 minute analysis video 😭😭✊✊✊
Honestly, I really hope they rework and add the "Taunt" mechanic that we saw in some early development footage in a future update. Aggro is definitely a nice addition to make tanks more viable, but having it only work in focused encounters means there's an entire type of battle where tanks aren't nearly as helpful as they _could_ be. Maybe debut the Taunt ability on some tanky IDs that don't have the ability to draw aggro right now (LCB Sinner Meursault, Los Mariachis Jefe Sinclair, and R.B. Sous-Chef Gregor come to mind) and use it for future tanks as well.
I'm assuming the Taunt debuff was cut due to some technical issues, but with the state the game is right now, I think they can revisit it without it causing any major problems?
Here's how I'm thinking the Taunt would work:
-Taunted enemies are forced to target the Sinner that inflicted the Taunt for one turn (they can target any skill slot on said Sinner)
-If multiple Sinners Taunt the same enemy on the same turn, the most recent Taunt has priority and overrides the older ones
-In focused encounters, the skills of Taunted enemies can be redirected; however, in regular encounters, they cannot be redirected
-Certain enemies (such as some bosses) may get a passive that makes them immune to Taunts, if it's needed for game balance
Oh, and in terms of how taunts will be visually represented: All the skill slots of a Sinner that Taunted an enemy will be highlighted in red (like how skill slots with Aggro are highlighted in yellow-orange) and have a red exclamation mark to the right of their skill slots. And I believe there is an unused debuff icon or two that would work perfectly for Taunted enemies.
Id like to see you recover recently released tank Ids like Cinq Outis, Lob Don, and W Hong lu in the future!
I noticed something: from what I can remember in non abno clashes it’s always the lowest speed ids that may get targeted a lot taking away from others. While this may not be useful in 99% of fights who knows maybe in the future this will be good when in a human fight the enemies start off with more slots than you. This actually gives the low speed a purpose, needs testing tho. Just talking outta me arse from me remembering in the past where my lowest speed is in a human fight got target more than ones
Used to be a stage like that where enemy have more slot than you. It was fun but people start complaining till it got nerfed
Or atleast that what I heard cause I for the life of me can't remember which stage it was.
21:49
wait i JUST heard that holy shit that's an umineko track
good taste. good taste.
Got to wake up to a video from you, let's go! And it's a long one!
Great video, keep up the quality 💪
This is really high quality video. Appreciate the effort
As a new player who does not have the vast majority of these, I agree on 7 Association Outis as a good tank. I quite frequently found myself using them to pull hits from the slower sinners or even being the only sinner who even could intercept to begin with. Add on applying paralyze and they're the reason I survived a lot of particularly grim turns without my team being shattered.
Personally, in my opinion, a big issue I have with tank IDs in general is an issue I have with playing defense in this game in general; offense is simply the much better defense. There are too many issues that can stack up as a situation goes on if you take a hit, than if you just...didn't take any hits. As the seasons go on, more and more new enemies deal more damage (have you SEEN how much damage you take from those Red Sheet dudes even on IDs who are resistant to Blunt?) than things like Guard and Counter can efffectively deal with at all. Evade on the other hand is just extremely good because you are avoiding damage altogether (assuming you landed heads), and its even better if there are effects on it (N Faust lowering enemy SP per dodge cannot be understated).
Tank IDs further compound this issue with the fact that the other best defense in the game is winning clashes, and I've noticed many Tank ID's overall skill aresenal is mediocre (12-15) to lacking (NSault having 6 fucking clash power is a complete joke, and Zwei Rodion only having an 8 is not an improvement) with some exceptions (K Hong Lu and Zwei Gregor are absolute beasts in this regard). And further this with a speed issue many have, they're overall struggling in my opinion in a game that doesn't seem like its combat was quite made for that (different story for the Mirror of the Lake which is FAR more balanced and viable for tanks becausemost enemies won't do 50 damage in one move over there).
Zwei Sinclair enjoyer here, I always appreciate his passive being a free 10% dmg reduction but I think you missed the fact that Defense power also applies to Counters
Granted, Counters right now are shite, like just win the clash, but im praying that they send more counter focused ids
I use him in md2h with SS Heath and KK Rodya as they both have the best counters in the game right now, and they also have gloom to activate his res if either one of them is on his range
This gives both SSHeath and KKRodion(with 10+ poise) an effective +4 to counter damage and also take 10% less damage so they can counter, which isn't really much but thats still pretty good
Him being a slow speed also lets him protection to staggered allies as they are technically next to him in the dashboard, though he definitely benefits more on having higher speed
He is definitely shit but my counter boosted dopamine hits is too high, I was unironically dissapointed that faust doesnt give endurance to feed more to my team comp but atleast greg got combat prep hehehehe
This is actually pretty insightful. Since KK Rodion’s speed range is bad that seems like it would work. The defense power up to counter is cool, especially for SS Heathcliff. If only there were gloom counters in the game.
I love K Corp Honglu. It's a shame you can't solo in exp luxcavation 3 with him
I actually was able to do it, but yeah… this took a lot of retries.
K Corp Hong Lu was the first ID I uptie IV (because I am Simp) and I run rupture (I got a lot 7 association characters). I'm also a new player so I haven't really had to think all that much yet, but I've only ever seen his helmet like 3 times, but he tanks everything. I luv my boi
Wow, I cant believe he got markiplier to do a cameo in his video!
Wow I can't believe he got...
Markiplier to do a cameo in his video!
Jokes aside, you've been pumping awesome content lately. I've been craving for someone to do actual comprehensive ID reviews instead of showcases, and, well... Here it is, the dream come true :)
Keep up the good work, and may the genius of Faust assist you
That's why I started this channel, no offense to Limbus content creators, but none of it interested me. So I decided to make the interesting content, though it took a while of goading and convincing myself to do it. Now I'm glad I did and also overwhelmed with the sheer amount of support I've been getting.
@@therealESGOOThis makes a spark of joy light in a heart, little joy in this cold and unforgiving cty.
highest quality limbus videos
nice breakdown and quality editing
Having watched the video I just have two things to note:
1: LCB Mersault's entire purpose is Chains of Others... which none of his ID's can solo fuel, and every other Mersault ID does better (Incidentally the sheer power of CoO makes Mersault one of the better LCB IDs).
2: Since this video was made before Dieci Rodion, where would you rate her on the Tank-o-Meter?
(7:48)
How he has so much boxes?
Great video! Thanks for the analysis.
I'm very (very, very) new to this game, so I dont really understand a lot of whats happening haha but ive just been binging your videos in prayers that maybe ill understand this game eventually. I pulled kong lu as my 2nd 3* ever earlier today and watched this video specifically because i was like "i wonder if he's good lol". turns out yes. 1000 effective hp is crazy. need to learn how to actually build teams once im not so limited by characters lol
I think I know the reason why early tank IDs like Zwei/Mariachi Sinclair and base Meursalt are so insanely slow, making them largely unable to clash, and considering many later tank releases give far better speed dice to tanks, it seems like a case of PM not properly testing out a cool seeming mechanic, learning about a better way to do it later on.
When your team has more action slots than there are enemies to target, the last couple of skills will loop back around and target the first enemy, going down the skill chain in the same order. For the enemies though, it goes in the opposite order, as their "extra" skills begin targeting the slowest sinner and working their way backwards up the skill chain.
That means if the enemy team ends up with more action slots than you have targetable slots, they'll start focusing on the slowest unit, likely a tank, allowing them to take more hits. It's a neat idea, and one that seems like it would work rather well. Just, the problem with that is, when exactly does that ever happen? You also gain more action slots as the battle goes on, and since you'll be defeating and staggering enemies, they'll rarely ever even have enough action slots to start looping back to target the tanks. The only times I've ever really seen it happen to me is in XP ticket dailies, where I'm focusing on speedrunning them, causing the second wave to usually have one or two more slots than my team, I genuinely don't think I've ever seen it happen in a story mission or high mirror dungeon floor, where the mechanic would actually matter.
The overall increase in speed die rolls as more Ids have been released supports this I think. All of the most recent tanks like KcorpHongLu, Rhinosault, or ZweiGregor either have way higher speed rolls, ways to consistantly gain a ton of haste, or both. It seems like PM initially planned for tanks to be much slower, didn't properly test how useful it would be, and then began to design new tanks with the lesson learned in mind. Yet sadly the original release tanks are all still slow as hell, and uptie 4 didn't really do much for them.
I really wonder, what would the game be like if the class designs were reversed. Tanks began at really high speeds, and DPS units were super slow. That way DPS units could start dealing damage after an enemy has been weakened, meaning it's more likely they'll stagger an enemy and start really getting the damage going.
Zwei Rodion is kinda the only one that disputes that claim, and who knows, maybe W Hong Lu, but I think Zwei Rodion was almost made to be bad from the start, and made usable by Uptie 4. DPS being slow would have it's own slew of problems, but I think Human fights are just hard to balance the roles around, since you have far less control.
@@therealESGOO True, Zwei Rodion is insanely slow. Though that, in addition to how bad she is as you've said, makes me wonder if she was intentionally designed as a test-run unit, an ID that tries something so "out of their comfort zone" that they intentionally make them weak to avoid accidentally breaking the game.
Being a tank designed around poise means she could, at least on paper, be both insanely tanky and also insanely high damage from non-stop criting at the same time. She wants count rather than potency, so she won't be critting that often in reality, and that's without even bringing up her horrid clashing, but perhaps it's future proofing in case they decide to release an ID with a support passive, or an EGO, that lets you gain more potency? The amount of poise count gaining effects Zwei Rodion has means that she could extremely easily start stacking poise potency if someone released with a "X ally gains +1 potency from poise skills". She's slow to give her the benefits of having her crits land on staggered enemies, but also has a ton of aggro at UT4 to keep enemies focused on her. Hell, based on Outis' Sunshower EGO being Poise focused, with extra bind and even protection in the passive, it seems like if Rodion ever gets a Sunshower EGO it would be a perfect pairing for her Zwei ID.
Not that that makes her any better at the moment, or excuses that PM still released a terrible ID, but at least that's my spitball guess about why she's so pitifully designed at the moment. A test ID to try out a hybrid tank-DPS, with some future proofing in mind.
In a ton of ways, looking at her reminds me of several characters from Fate Grand Order. That game has different classes that are weak to, or strong against other classes, and practically every time there's a Servant released for a brand new class, they feel like Rodion. Seemingly intentionally designed to be, if not outright bad, then at the very least "not even close to "okay"". Then, the second Servant released is always a powerhouse that does that class' thing super well, as though that first servant was just a test-run to see how far they can actually push the class in terms of balance.
I really wish PM would be more willing to just, tweak numbers directly, rather than rely almost entirely on the Uptie to make them stronger.
Based Umineko representation with that Dead Angle song choice for base Meursault.
Personally would have count Sunshower heathcliff as tank. But on the other hand he more like a dps that benefit from getting hit.
Also Rhino Supremacy
Suncliff made it into the very early drafts of the script, but ultimately, he would have been difficult to contextualize against the other tanks. I came to that same conclusion, that he is a DPS who is rewarded for being hit more than a tank. Though I considered mentioning how high his effective health is, since he gains so much protection.
The best tank for me is The One Who Shall Grip Sinclair. Large amounts of health, great speed range, excellent healing for the entire team when he kills someone with his Impending Day ego.
But what make him better than even K-Corp Hong Lu in my experience, is his unbelievable clash power and damage. His skill 2 and 3 have so many coins and their minimum roll is so high that he almost never loses a clash, and since he kills everything so fast, the other sinners are in far less danger because battles last fewer turns.
He’s a staple of my mirror dungeon 2 hard runs, and on top of everything I just mentioned, he synergizes with both N-Corp and burn teams because of the incredibly powerful burn and lust EGO Gifts in there.
Not sure if this is a troll comment but N Sinclair is not a tank, He's a negative sanity DPS... Outside of his kit having literally nothing related to tanking, his effective health also falls below even the squishiest of actual tank sinners.
Edit: What you defined was basically a good DPS lol. Also, EGOs aren't taken into account when evaluating a sinner's ability to perform a certain role, only their kits are. Otherwise, every Faust would just be considered a healer.
Loving these videos!
Their usually a big metal car with tracks instead of wheels, they also have large barrels that can fire large shells that are usually explosive.
Really Good video! I love the way you dissect units
Although I have one thing I would disagree on, and it was during Mariachi Sinclair ID segment
Evade being the best defensive skill type only applies in type of content where tanking isn't really a thing, since Evade in (at least current) hard content, is probably the worst possible Defensive skill, due to high rolls on enemies
Depends really, against single coin attacks, Guard is better, since those ceilings are usually too high for evade. For multi coin skills you can dodge the majority of them, greatly reducing damage you would take if the clash is completely unwinnable.
However the main point was that it is theoretically infinite effective health. Which is a pretty interesting thing for a tank to have.
K Corp Hong Lu made me into the rupture fanatic I am today, hands down my favorite ID
What about sunshower Heath? Although he's 5hp off the criteria, he does have heavy defenses, and wants to get hit alot.
Extra thing to note about N Sault: If on a team that can almost consistently get 4 wrath res chains, if he ends up under 50%, his clashing power becomes more powerful due to the 1 fanatic and 1 power up from his combat passive (and since he's on the team, the enemy will most definitely have at least 1 nail in them) on top of 3 prot. So his rolls become 13, 14 and 16 (at U4), which is still not the best, but a whole lot better. So he kinda sort of functions like a shi ID, where you want him under half and you could consider his S3 as a Panic Button in case he reaches dangerous hp levels. Though getting him under half is the hard part...
That’s true, honestly 4 wrath res is pretty hard on its own, especially if you want to actually synergize him with N corp. It is unfortunate he is so incentivized to be below 50% HP despite very clearly struggling to get below 50% lol.
Shoutout to the lvl 15 base Faust that I spammed guard on to beat the canto 4 pre-dungeon boss because my dumb ass didn't select a support ID.
It took a dozen attempts and the one where I succeeded was where I was least prepared, the irony.
13:38 you really got Gregor looking like the Black Silence there
Good video as usual, I actually use N corp Meursault a lot, I use him in a way that whenever I can't win a clash then I'll just counter, meaning I don't lose out on damage while also reducing the damage taken a little. I would say N corp Meursault is *the* Tank other than K corp Hong Lu and... probably Zwei Gregor...? I haven't tested Zwei Gregor yet because I'm broke on shards and lunacy, but I have done some theories and he does seem very good. That's all from me 👋
7:48 How the hell does someone end up with 1400 egoshard crates!?
As the guy who's team is 3 tanks and 2 dps (R corp Meursault, Heathcliff , K corp Hong Lu, Cinq Don and Zwei Gregor) for normal stages and 4 tanks + 3 dps for MD2 hard( Zwei Faust and Shi Ishmael) I am obligated to like this list
Until I watched this video, I've played Seven Outis and Zwei Greg as damage dealers. Outis in particular shredded everything (Canto I and II) with Field Command. Canto III isn't very fun for them so I'm glad I can use their defensive skills as an alternative.
As I'm a charge team user metaslave, I do like using W faust as one of the 2 00 identities for MD. She clashes worse than L faust, and L faust does provide lust, which feeds fluid sac better, but I don't have to mald about her dying constantly, at least.
She doesn't really clash much worse except on her S3. She also uses Fluid Sac better when she does fire it because she's slower, so everyone else can have an eGO attack and immediately refill sanity.
I wonder why Sunshower Heathcliff or G Corp Gregor not on this list. Sunshower is meant to be hit and has one of the strongest defensive skills. G Corp Gregor is arguable a regen tank with his effective health.
Why aren't they on this list?!
The short answer is they don't meet the criteria I set at the beginning. I admit Heath's defense skill is strong, but it's strong in an entirely different context. G Gregor is more meant as a sustain ID than a tank, since his stagger threshold is so high, he can't make full use of the healing, unfortunately. These IDs would have been too far from the actual topic of the video. Though a separate Suncliff video may be in the works soon...
G Greg's has -2 to defense level, +5 offense and *3* very high staggers.
How is he supposed to tank if his only sustain comes from _hitting_ ?
3~7 speed is nice but his S2 and S3 aren't really great at clashing, wich creates a problem:
You won a clash, he probably didn't get hit, you have no aggro so no one else is hitting him, so his regen is +0hp. And going for unapposed attacks with an id at +5 offense and _3_ staggers isn't a great idea since his effective hp is at ~40~60 iirc
You lost a clash, he got hit with negative defense lvl meaning he probably took more damage, he lost hp and now is probably close to getting staggered, on top of having +0hp again.
If ID requires you to feed it slots to be an effective tank, it's not a tank, it's a dps with sustain skills.
@@therealESGOO They are bruisers, combination of doing damage and a bit of "tanking".
Well K hong lu, 7 outis, R Mersault, W mersault and zwei gregor.
Can do a lot of damage and/or inflict debuff than permit more damage on the ennemies, so i think they are still more powerful than those two IDs, because they have boths of the two worlds and better or more easy to trigger.
Sunshower Heatcliff hype me more than N sinclair, because that's probably on of the strangest IDs out there and i like that.
My arguments is about expanding the definition of a tank. Since some characters straddle the line between tank and other classes. Not that they will necessarily be the most effective tanks. Both tend to have a trade-off of maximum health pool for effective health pool, or require "Tanking" a particular amount of damage to activate their gimmick. I'd argue G Corp Manager Corporal Gregor has more effective health and sustain in combat compared to regular characters due to his ability to lifesteal. When it comes to Lobotomy E.G.O. Sunshower Heathcliff, he has higher effective health since he's able to turn stacks of sinking into protection, so his health pool is far more vast than it initially appears.
I don't know about stagger bar being the defining statistic that makes something a tank or not. I don't believe effective clashing skills matter for a tank, since you have characters such as Lobotomy E.G.O. Sloshing Ishmael
Can we all agreed that out of all the IDs Meursault by far has the most? And by that point we can just call him Monsieur Mur?
P.S "Wow! I can't believe he got Markiplier to do a cameo in his video"
If you don't understand, check the bingo card once more ;)
Zwei Greg goes nuts in a solo, it only gets better after Zwei faust and sinclair provide support passives, and the new gremlin Don from Walpurgis night means he heals on hitting a taunted skill slot; once you get to enough skill slots on him, he stops taking damage
7:47
........How many MDs?
........
Ah, I see you are a man of culture as well (fellow Gregor simp)
Bug Guy just tickles the right part of the brain.
I would also like to point out that his Skill two actually gives him Defence up 3 and not Defense level up, so once you get the ball rolling and have like 3-4(?) skill two in the deck you can roll up to 12 Defence level up which increases his Guard significantly, making him the highest guard ID
Always love watching some PM-related videos and suddenly hearing an Umineko music in it
Most other rpgs and gachas have damage taken as an inevitability so you need someone to take that damage which is where Tanks come in. But in Limbus Company you have the choice to not take damage via clashing, unless its a one sided attack which you often can’t redirect to a Tank anyway. This means that any ID good at clashing never takes damage at all so there is no inevitable damage for Tanks to take.
15:08 I thought they changed Pursuance to not affect Meursault himself?
13:25 this will never fail to get me to laugh, that 4 heal on a Clash Win with a Skill 3 is absolutely comical.
My only gripe with Tank IDs is that there is currently no content that they can heavily capitalise. Sure, they can face tank in MD2H but most of the time it's better to win clashes with EGO. Hoped that PM will give some enemy that must be tanked in the future.
Yeah, totally. Some tanks are actually pretty strong in terms of kit, but they just…don’t have a great use right now outside of exactly hard mirror dungeon and going into content under leveled.
Boi, Brazen Bull is already make a lot of people loss their minds.....now you begging for more
@@hayabusahithosi9587 I want them to design an enemy you want to tank, e.g. "If this unit clashes, it gains X buffs next turn. If not, gain X debuff". Current MD2H is just a glorified EGO spam at the moment.
I just started LC a few days ago, and I gotten Zwei Gregor and Faust in back to back rolls
sick video, fun watch
Good to know it was enjoyable from an outsider’s perspective! Thanks for sticking around.
I think its pretty funny that the Meursault situation got mentioned because with the release of Zwei Faust I have this same problem with her, loving both W and Zwei a lot and having them both at uptie 4, I still can't really choose which one I'd rather run.
Can you make a video about bonus damage id (poise and other kinds of conditional bonus damage). I always find it so weird about giving bonus damage instead of coin value.
In my opinion, it’s easier to split tanks into two categories: one is real tanks Zwei Greg, Rhino Mersault and K Hong Lu, and the other is a bunch of confused people.
Comparison I can make between Kong Lu and Zwei Gregor to single out those two specifically.
Kong Lu (K Corp Hong Lu) is more close to basically Senator Armstrong because ha ha funny ampule nanomachines. That and also he's constantly taking damage to intentional proc the passive.
Whereas Zwei Gregor is the Bulldozer from the Payday series. The enemies are up against a wall and he's the freaking wall. With it being super amusing to intentionally clash lose Standoff multiple times for a ludicrous shield.
Finally: the swankiest class archetype in detail
Great Limbus content with Umineko soundtracks on top of it? Just take my sub already dude
Also, I personally believe Meursault ID's should be bumped a bit higher just by virtue of having Chains of Others, it's a great E.G.O for any tank
Honestly, very good point. I generally don’t like to consider EGO, me mentioning Legerdemain was maybe a mistake in that regard. Since it is his Base EGO though, not mentioning it was certainly a mistake. It is a damn good EGO.
That last point about base Meursault, it could be an intentional design flaw because of his inspiration an soon to be story canto
Me: *Runs Liu team and powers through everything. *
Also me: "What are these funny words you speak?"
Jokes aside, this video explained tanks really well. Glad to see that other people are starting to see how tanks work in LC.