Ups & Downs From Star Trek: Lower Decks 3.9 - Trusted Sources
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- We've arrived at Season 3's penultimate episode already!
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I really liked that there was a general order to not talk to Mariner and her friends just ignored it completely, without comment.
Which richly deserved the latinum up.
Overall fine, just feeled a bit to forced. Like Mariners exit from the Ceritos, her "breakeup" with Jennifer .... they could have done that with a better story. Like Jemnifer and Mariners scene just felt very forced, unnatural and out of character and just feeled like it only happened because that's what the plot needs.
@@juliajuanafernandaalvarez1456 It really comes off like Jennifer only existed in this season to make that scene happen. Mariner needed a confrontation with a member of the Cerritos crew who didn't believe her. So the writers threw in a token relationship and didn't bother developing it since it wasn't going to survive past that moment anyway.
@@TheKrstff Yeah it unfortunatly looks like it and with only one episode left that's nothing they are going to fix. Pretty sad that they only used there relationship as a plot devise for this
@@juliajuanafernandaalvarez1456 it's quite sad. I was rooting for them together after the DS9 episode
Admiral Buenamigo orchestrated the Breen attack to show off his new ship. It can’t be a coincidence that the *first* mission carried out with that program had both an FNN reporter *and* was assigned to the one planet where the Breen had attacked. Also, The Cerritos didn’t actually send out a distress call during the battle (The counselor was occupying subspace comms the entire time before Freeman returned which would’ve prevented them from hailing Starfleet, and we saw the rest of the battle), which means he would’ve had absolutely no idea that she was under attack unless he was involved somehow. And why would a prototype classified warship just happen to be nearby? Wouldn’t it be more logical to keep her near Earth? Lastly, the fact that the admiral and Freeman were family-friends makes her less likely to notice the suspiciousness of the situation.
It’s the only possible explanation.
I assumed he was trying to backtrack from the seemingly failed Project: Swing By, but that makes much more sense.
The next episode will probably include them cleaning up that Breen message to reveal the Breen wondering why Starfleet is attacking them since Starfleet paid them to attack the planet.
That's messed up. He got lot of "people" killed. That would be a major down from me.
Sure seems that that it was a setup to show off the Texas class.
The problem with that theory is that they weren't supposed to go to Brekka, they only did so because Onara was such a buzz kill. Still, that does leave the question - why was the Aledo there?
"And I'm seeing a lotttttt of stuff about Q."
I love the idea that Q is constantly hassling the Cerritos and we just never see it. That they're like his favorite chew toy when he's bored of Picard and it just isn't even worth an episode.
Surprised he didn't mention that in the video
We’ve seen Q mess with other Starfleet crews.
Q is this series' Morn. Such a talkative, chatty fellow...who never does anything where we can see him.
I'm pretty sure we saw Q in at least one episode of Lower Decks.
@@EmeraldEyesEsoteric S1 E8
"I hit it with the broom and it didn't care" ranks right up with "I am not a merry man" for favorite lines for me now.
Was I the only one disappointed the "no life signs" didn't reveal the emergency command hologram running the Texas class, and a Bob Picardo cameo?
I think we’re going to learn those three autonomous ships are controlled by Peanut Hamper, Agimus, and Badgey respectively.
No, no you are not--I fully expected a holographically-crewed ship at the very least, not "M5 but it works this time."
@@ematuskey Like the ship of holograms on Red Dwarf?
@@franklinlunsford That, or a ship I remember from some ST novel ages ago.
No guarantee that's not still the case.
I really like how badass the Breen appear in this episode. They really sold them as professional and fearsome.
I ver much enjoyed that too...until they all got taken down by a modified amazon drone. I would have prefered it if they were taken out by half a fleet rather than one nifty new ship.
And armor that is more than decorative (for a change)!
For some reason, I got real Mandolorian vibes from this version of the Breen. I mean, they’ve always had a bit of a Star Wars vibe given their armor and the look of their ships, but I think they really leaned into it for this appearance.
@@michaelknightmustdie I don’t know why but I really liked that, while the Breen were carving their way in, Shaxs and Kashon were suited up staring them down, waiting for their moment to throw down. It was a badass moment.
@@sinnedking7365 I think these ones were paid off by Admiral Buen Amigo bevause yeah they were beaten to fast
Jennifer could be an example of how relationships can be cute and fun without being good. Even in Jennifer's episode she had ulterior motives for inviting Mariner to meet her friends. It was fun to watch but can you imagine Mariner bringing a significant other to meet the beta shifters, intending for there to be friction, and being happy they feared her?
The difference between 2nd Contact and Swingbys is that 2nd Contact is for *recently* 1st Contacted cultures (but Cerritos also does whatever they're told). Swingbys are for planets that haven't been revisited in a long while. Hope that helps, Sean.
Imagine if it had been a thing back in the days when Kirk left Kahn on Seti Alpha 5.
@@padoco73 Maybe Freeman read his report and was inspired by it. She must have used that as a reason why it should be done to convince starfleet.
@@willyorgy4677 Well one of the big recurring theme of Lower Decks has been till now how Starfleet is an moronic organization because she not bother to contact planet previously visited (that are not very important) on a regular basis so to making sure things are not become as before or even worse
@@willyorgy4677 I really think that it had more to do with the Beta III situation, where they went back to worshiping the damned computer, and Mariner justifiably calling out Starfleet on walking away once major societal changes were effected on systems. There are a lot of those. Capella comes to mind.
I liked the effect of the Cerritos getting hit with a torpedo that blows completely through the saucer, very evocative of ST:6
THAT was the general idea!
...and apparently no casualties, even though it really looked like it.
@@dT6E7hmja4iXjsJw I'm pretty sure there were some fatalities there.
@@dT6E7hmja4iXjsJw Just gotta be REALLY quick with those emergency bulkheads. Which we know they can be since Janeway survived the entire front of Voyager's bridge being ripped off once
I honestly think this is how they'll introduce T'Lyn to the crew.
Mariner staying away for a while having her own adventures while the rest of the lower deckers learn to work with T’Lyn would be interesting.
thats a interesting idea
That’d be great! I’m betting g that T’Lyn will be a visiting cadet though, T’Lyn wouldn’t have had time to get all the way through Starfleet Academy in this short time.
@@jeffreycarman2185 She'd probably be like Burnham and be given a commission in Starfleet because of her being a Vulcan Science Academy graduate and Starfleet treating that as a more than acceptable equivalent.
I hope you're right. I've been looking for T'Lyn all season long.
If the next season of Picard doesn't have a moment where Riker and Troy mention the time they saved the Cerritos, I riot.
Stuff like that's probably just another Tuesday for Riker.
@@TheKrstff To borrow from a different show... "Cali Class Ship in trouble? Must be Tuesday."
People’s perceptions of others change slower than actual people do- the episode accurately captured that.
T'ana's "Oh shit, she's serious" line was my favorite of the episode. It fits cat lady's personality so well and it was delivered so well. Dirty Uncle Mike knows exactly how to drop swear words in just the right places.
I think this is my favorite episode of Lower Decks so far. More than wej Duj.
I would respond but it's 3AM (ship time) and I'm on duty. But expect a SCATHING rebuttal when I wake up later
I very much disagree. One character having a good line doesn't make for a good episode. wej Duj was so entertaining I had to watch it 4 times, while this episode is just disappointing and has characters acting very out of character and some stuff happening without proper development just to rush the plot forward for a season finale next episode. It's like this episode exists for the sole purpose of making the next episode better, and we'll know in one week if that's the case.
@@Henry-vz5hh I didn't say one line made the whole thing entertaining. This was a fantastic episode and I loved everything about it.
Automated warships are gonna feel like such a great idea to people at Utopia Planitia a few years in the future!
@Lexington73300 If Star Trek has taught us anything, it's that the Federation is more likely to fall into the same traps over and over! Sure, they get cool new toys to play with, but TNG, DS9, and VOY all repeat the same stories from TOS. They catalog everything and then upload it to Memory Alpha and forget it happened!
We've seen working autonomous craft with the parts of the Prometheus class' sections during Voyager.
I'm assuming the new class is designed more for escort and support there rather than general use...and it's a fun way for things like the ECH stuff to have progressed, because why not there.
Honestly i hope when Mariner comes back (and let's be real: unless she is written out it's a when, not an if) that she kind of reverts to not exactly season 1 Mariner but something between season 1 and 2 towards most of the crew with the exception of her friends and maaaaaaaybe Ransom (would be kinda funny if he of all people becomes the one officer Mariner somewhat trust).
We know Mariners earlier behavior came from something that happened earlier in Mariner's career and after that episode she and the lack off support it would make sense if she falls back into her old "safe" behavior.
Also some relationships (namely with Freemann and Jennifer) should stay damaged.
I wouldn't mind if Mariner forgives them after they worked for that forgiveness but it doesn't mean she has to go back to the status quo.
Forgiveness does not mean everything is forgotten or undone.
It simply means you accept that it happened, acceptit's past and move on.
From Ransom's expression when Freeman orders Mariner to go to Starbase 80, Ransome actually seems sorry for Mariner. Could be a friendship coming in the future, or a new respect between Ransome and Mariner. Maybe! After all, Mariner did not do what the others thought she did!
It's ironic that Jennifer and the captain, who Mariner loved, are the cruelest to her, while Ransom, who she had treated the worst on that ship (constant disobedience, hitting him, the fit in sickbay, putting a scorpion in his bed that nearly killed him -she brags about it to her visiting captain friend, with no remorse, etc) , well, he is shocked and upset by the captain's decision to transfer Mariner and tries to change her mind. He might be a better person than I thought... A, and Boimler, Tendi and Rutheford, despite not believing in her innocence, still were supportive...
I think it is pretty much confirmed that she will return because there is the cross-over episode with Strange New Worlds that she and Boimler are already confirmed to be in and I think itbwill be very hard to justify having her there if they have to explain why she and Boimler are in the same place at the same time if she is not in Star fleet anymore
I love the sports terminology they put in there.
"fire a full spread of photon torpedos!"
The Breen shoot down all the torpedos.
"captain they covered the spread!"
Love that. Did anyone else get that besides me?
I did!!😆🤣😆🤣 I was half waiting for a Draft Kings ad or something by the end.
I was hoping Sean would comment on it.
@@jessodum3103 Irish guy here. Admittedly not remotely interested in sportsball, but I'd think I'd have picked up in conversation with people who are what "cover the spread" means if it were in common use in Ireland's dialect of English. Is it from some America-specific sport like baseball or American Football or laCrosse?
If so, I expect Sean (like me) won't ever have heard the term before.
I did like it in dialogue, though. Cool to see that happen.
Noticed it as well
@@Destructor111 Hmm. A part of me feared it might have been a term that isn't as well known as I thought it was. But there are times when Sean surprises me with other "American culture" knowledge. I mean, he bothered to learn the population of Aledo, TX. 😊
I fell your pain at a ship named after a tiny town, but I think it would make even more sense if these unmanned ships were named after ghost towns.
This would actually be pretty wicked if they did that.
I rather like that idea, the unmanned ships all named for unpopulated locations(who’s to say Aledo isn’t a ghost town in the 24th century). Though I imagine that kind of convention would quickly make the Texas class ships seem really spooky.
USS Cerro Gordo perhaps? Though that's in California, so, probably a cali-class... :P
@@twocvbloke An automated California class could probably be pretty sick, if it's outfitted with better tech to stand up to the plate.
@@DragoonMS It’d be unlikely to see an automated ship in that form factor. In a practical sense, without the need for crew accommodations and quarters (only Jefferies tubes and other maintenance access), drone ships would be much, much smaller. Realistically, they wouldn’t even need a saucer since its only purpose is for crew stuff. If one were ‘really’ designing one, it would probably more resemble an even more compact and streamlined version of the Defiant (or a larger, beefier version of the Delta Flyer), since not needing crew quarters and much less need for inertial dampening would give that kind of compact design a lot more interior breathing room to avoid most of the design problems the Defiant had with being way too powerful for its size.
When Mariner was leaving Boimler, Tendi, and Rutherford, she did a hand wave on the shape of the Vulcan salute. Blink and you'd miss that one. 😁
I saw that too 😃
So we've had a sarcastic Vulcan salute (from Mariner and Boimler), a passive aggressive one(from T'ylin), and now a sad one(Marnier again).
I noticed that too, but it happened so fast that I wasn't sure if I trusted what my eyes were telling me
Yup. I actually, literally blinked in that moment and was like "wait... did she just..." and I had to rewind and freeze frame it to be sure. :D
Watch. T'Lyn will be on the Corritos!
5:47 the picture of Kirk and Spock on the padd it done in the art style of TAS. Sweet touch.
Yes, I was seriously wondering how I missed the Landru episode in TAS and was planning to go back and look for it. It was *that* well done.
"Can you believe we only have 1 episode left of this season?"
You sir, have ruined my day.
Also 3 people in that tiny shuttle? Just kill me and get it over with. My claustrophobia was going off
@Lexington73300 with no bathroom? no no no no.
How could you fail to mention the Cetacean's interview? I thought you'd be all about that scene. Would have been your 10th up!
Jen being so convinced Mariner did it was.....insane to me - Jen should know Mariner MUCH better then that at this point. what i like is that Ransom seemed to be on Mariners side, which makes sense given he's seen her improve over this season.
Yeah, while it is disappointing I could see the rest of the crew reacting like that, but with Jennifer it definitely felt forced and somewhat out of character to me.
Yeah, dramatically it's unsatisfying but that's how dating is in real life. That person doesn't know you well and is constantly on high alert for anything that could be wrong with you.
It's ironic that Jennifer and the captain, who Mariner loved, are the cruelest to her, while Ransom, who she had treated the worst on that ship (constant disobedience, hitting him, the fit in sickbay, putting a scorpion in his bed that nearly killed him -she brags about it to her visiting captain friend, with no remorse, etc) , well, he is shocked and upset by the captain's decision to transfer Mariner and tries to change her mind. He might be a better person than I thought... A, and Boimler, Tendi and Rutheford, despite not believing in her innocence, still were supportive...
I can see Jen taking that stance. She knows Mariner is a rebel. That's what she likes about her. She's also keenly aware of Mariner's idiosyncrasies. When Jen 'sees' Mariner getting herself kicked off the ship, in effect abandoning her over something stupid, that's gotta hurt. Jen knows Mariner could be better than that, so she was probably more hurt and disappointed than truly angry. :)
@@lalywindland5764 It was kind of terrible for Jennifer's character, but felt like it as done to give Mariner the extra nudge to resign. Like at least her friends would listen, but Jennifer wouldn't even listen to her. So there wasn't going to be that tiny thing making her hold on, suffering on Starbase 80. So, it works for the plot, but really drags down a character I was starting to like. It did feel a little forced.
This may be a stretch but a part of me really hopes that the secondary sub plot point of the pie eating contest is a reference to the scene in breaking bad when one Jessie’s friends (Badger) is recounting his fan fiction episode about a pie eating contest on the Enterprise
deep cut. and you’re absolutely right 😂
For sure, it has to be an Easter Egg.
I don't know but Rutherford transporting 35 pies into boimler to try and cheat against "delta shift" would have been hilarious.
That sounds… exactly like a conversation that probably, definitely happened in the Writer’s Room. 😂
It might be a stretch but I choose to believe anyway. I mean it was even the same flavor (although to be fair blueberry is kinda the default for pie-eating contests)
I feel very sorry for Mariner, she did a 180 and only got good reports from the Department Heads in the last episode and then she gets that. The Jeniffer Mariner break up also broke my heart.
Same. I need them back together!!
@@martyncurrill2766 Mariner deserves better
honestly guys I don't know you but I think here the writers make a mistake by writing up episode 7 of season 3 on that side-robot rogue character and not focus on the character of Jennifer or at least a further exploration of Mariner and Jennifer relationiship, perhaps if they used such episode for this reason, they could sell better Mariner and Jenner break up, but like it it seem quite sincerely hurried up, like they didn't have enough time to deeped this contradiction..or at the very least i would have tried to divided this episode in two..I honestely would quite enjoyed if after the initial fight, while Mariner was about to sign for trasfer for Starbase 80, Jen would show up stopping Mariner and telling that, by just seeing how Mariner walk away after their fight,she realized that Mariner was in fact quite hurt, they even could entertaing this concept with Jen pointing out that she has realized a long time ago that Mariner 'mistake' in confonding the Ferengi 'thief' was staged in order to make Boilmer feel better...but alas this was not the case here, in Lower Deck however the writer has seem to be quite creative in their ideas, without twisting the lore....we shall see and hope for the best...on a side note, the reapperance of the Breen was quite well received
Same. I hope their breakup isn't permanent! I was really rooting for them!
Amen Man. However Given the few iteractions between the two characters in the last episode of the season, I am not so sure anymore if the writers really thinked that deep on the relationship of the two character, if it was for me..thus I'll admit already it is quite the silly idea.... I would have at least used the last post scene of the episode, to show Jen who is staring sadly to Mariner former friendship candle and begrudgingly comment something like "if victory is life, then I have made quite the mistake, haven't I?"..only for her to turn on a music recording in her data pad, which however started to play something in Breen!...Now that's would have been at least quite the twist
Having personally seen officers IRLi n the military freaking out over their pet project possibly being in jeopardy, I found the captain painfully believable.
Honestly, same
I'm saddened by this episode mainly because I can relate. I've been in that situation. Even though it happened years ago, it still hurts. I bet she'll get a better resolution than I did.
I'm sorry that happened to you! It happened to me, too, and I had a good reputation, unlike Mariner! In fact, after I returned, I became a rebel, seeing as being obedient made me a scapegoat. I took care not to get caught doing what I wasn't allowed and I rarely trusted anyone after that...
Who else is big the sad that there’s only one episode left?
Also, moral of the episode, be wary of journalists
Anyone who's seen the Babylon 5 episode "A Day in the Strife" knew where this was going.
@@CantankerousDave that’s exactly what I was thinking. It makes me wonder if FNN is like ISN (at least during that dictatorship) and covers for the government. Obviously there’s freedom of speech in the Federation but FNN is probably operated by the government.
I"m surprised he didn't give an UP to the Rolodex. I didn't see that coming. It was hillarious.
Bro when the reporter was running down what the crew had been upto over the series I figured she just read the mission reports I mean she is a reporter and thats kind of what they do. I mean it was a myriad of ways that she could have learned that information the fact that they immediately assumed it was Beckett was just baffling. And the fact that the entire crew except for like her friends turned on her was just crazy. They did her super dirty this episode
Tunnel vision. They weren't looking for other ways because of the very obvious culprit in front of them. Captain Freeman didn't even order Mariner to tell her what she told the reporter.
@@ReddwarfIV see and that another thing didn't even give her chance to explain
@@ReddwarfIV which should imho have consequences for Freeman's captaincy.
It does make sense for the Cerritos to require help in battle, the California are support ships and are for more minor missions. Also the Cerritos also had time to shine, at the end of the second season the crew was able to save the Archimedes.
OK, but I’d still like to see the Cerritos distinguish itself in a fight just once. It always falls apart like an Oberth class with a glass jaw.
Also, it’s the Breen. Even post-Dominion War, they’re a high-tier threat that’s *way* above the Cerritos’ weight class. Like it or not, they did exactly as well as they should have in that battle and are lucky to have survived at all.
I imagine the war capable ships are akin to main battle tanks vs the California class is more like a an old tractor with a .22 taped to it.
I mean I get that but at the same time I feel like it's been a while since we've gotten an episode where the ship nearly got destroyed but managed to save itself without help. I miss seeing the crew pull together to solve a massive problem without outside help, proving they're just as competent as any other ship in the fleet
The Cerritos could use a boost in firepower of weapons when they go to fix her. Too many episodes they are in danger needing help.
The one person they found on Brekka was shot in the back. Never turn your back on a Breen.
Adding the tread pattern from mariner's boots to the stains on the floor was genius. Up
I appreciate the fact that the California class ship gets a new rival and its the Texas class. Very appropriate to have those two go head to head.
My problem with this episode is how HARD the whole ship turned on her. Like, I get that as part of the episode Mariner's mom would over react and you could still end up at the point they did by the end of the episode. But with having the whole ship turn against her: I kind of hope she doesn't go back to the Cerritos! They really all are terrible (except the main core group there of course)
I see your point, but the majority of the crew doesn't know her that well and they think she trashed the rest of them. I understand why they'd be mad.
Hopefully they all feel as bad as Freeman did when they saw the finished article?
@@someonebald2022 but that doesn’t change anything. Mariner learned how they all really feel about her.
That happens.. Friends, colleagues, as soon as you are deemed tainted, the world turns their back.. Seen it in the business world.
Especially with the reveal it doesn’t even make sense for them to turn on her. It was probably the weakest point in the episode.
I really disagree with your Jennifer down. We know Mariner a lot better than Jennifer or the crew as a whole do. For most of the series, Mariner has been a trouble maker and it's only relatively recently that she's really started to mature as a person and an officer of the crew. To sum up, Mariner still has that reputation of being a trouble maker and bad news surrounding her even if it's no longer fair. She hasn't matured for long enough for her to shed her old reputation.
Totally agree. You wrote my comment for me 💯👍
I didn't see the ending coming. I actually thought they were building up to a scenario whereby Mariner would prove her worth by whipping Starbase 80 into shape as a secondary story arc.
I am surprised at the lack of mention that Starbase 80 had a GENESIS TORPEDO randomly placed in the path of the bedlam.
I saw that too!
Even as a lifelong Texan, I was kind of like "either they threw a dart at a map or Aledo is someone's hometown, because otherwise there is absolutely no reason to mention it."
I have to wonder if it's meant to be a joke, where instead of huge exploration cruisers that dwarf the Galaxy-class (to play on the 'everything is bigger in Texas' cliche), the Texas-class is probably similar to the Defiant-class in size.
Gonna have to disagree about downs 2 and 3. Marriner spent a lot of time and effort building up her reputation as an aggressive rebel who will do as she pleases, regs and senior officers be damned, so while _we_ know she's grown past that, and her closest friends know she's grown past that, it's not surprising that the rest of the crew does not.
Even Jennifer?
_Especially_ Jennifer.
Jennifer's antagonism in season two was wholly based on misinterpretations of Marriner's feelings toward her; in this season, she invited Marriner to join her friends group _expecting_ Marriner to act like her reputation and not a caring girlfriend. And don't forget, Jenn was one of those "redshirt" officers who were obsessed with rising through the ranks, so it's not surprising she would hesitate to support Marriner when doing so could potentially get her in trouble.
Jennifer essentially says on screen that she is with Mariner because of how rebellious and "tell it to your face" she is. It's no surprise that she'd dump Mariner when that went too far and threatened her career given her origin as one of the ladder climbers.
Imagine talking to someone, like an adult, in starfleet
I really felt for Ruthaford wanting that pie.
I'm really excited for those automated ships to become evil next episode
Especially with AGIMUS and Peanut Hamper working together
I thought it was really weird that Mariner was SO intent on running around covered in blueberries and running up to the reporter without her uniform on. Like, I know she’s chaotic but she cares so much about her mom and making the ship look good. Her behavior was just so weird.
Actually, what was weirder was the behavior of the other crew members who, despite orders to put their best foot forward, ratted out the other crew members to the reporter.
@@david2869 Yeah, kashan(idk, how to spell his name) makes sense because it sounds like he was trying to say the crew was forgiving and kind, but idk what Barnes was thinking
@@boko06 For Barnes, I like to think it was a sound bite presented out of context for the sake of a sensational news story
@@david2869 The thing is, even the stuff the crew said that wound up in Victoria’s story wasn’t that bad. Most of it was just humorous reminiscing that didn’t even put Freeman in a bad light. The only one that was halfway critical was Barnes getting catty about Ops being better than Engineering and talking about the Captain’s meltdown in a rather inappropriate way. Well, and the Doopler story, but we don’t know who blabbed on that one. Probably T’Ana. 😂
The whole news story reeks of a hit piece. The only reason I can imagine is that Buenamigo set Carole up to throw Project Swing By under the bus in order to better grandstand his Texas-class starship reveal. But that seems needlessly cruel, even for an ‘evil admiral’ plot.
@@danroth7260 I think that the starting stuff about ops being the best was just friendly banter. Sort of a X are all great but clearly my Y group is far superior. The stuff about the engineering and the captains breakdown was a bit strange. Then I remembered she is in a relationship with rutherford, or at least she was... The last time we saw the two of them together she was walking away in tears after past him took over temporarily. She may have been letting personal bias creep in a bit. If that was the plan, then that was some A grade continuity.
I guess T'Lyn is coming in next week to be the fourth member of our lower deckers crew. I'm also hoping this is setting up the Breen as the big bads for season 4. We know very little about the Breen, and what we do know is uncertain, so it'll be interesting for them to get the Lower Decks treatment, especially with DS9's revelation that they might wear those suits to troll everyone else into thinking they live on an ice ball.
It kinda feels like with the Breen the writers weren't necessarily expecting DS9 to be the last non-prequel Alpha-Quadrant show of that era. Like I feel they were supposed to be the new weird mysterious recurring villains, but then when DS9 ended there was never another show that could utilize them outside of cameos and they weren't the right villains for a movie.
@Jonny Croxville Not after the events of this episode.
NX - “Naval Experiment”
NCC - “Naval Construction Contract” (meaning it’s basically an assembly line ship)
NA - likely “Naval Automation” or “Naval Automaton”
Y'know, this is probably how they bring in T'lyn, with Mariner gone they'll need someone else. I look forward to how they introduce her
Calling it: the automated ships are going to get hijacked by the Legion of Evil AIs locked away in the Daystrom Institute
The naming convention seems to have been somewhat lifted from the short-lived British scifi comedy "Hyperdrive". The hero ship was the HMS Camden Lock, a Wendover class starship, and there were other ships called the Purley Way & the Gower, all named after fairly obscure locations in the UK.
It made more sense in that show, though. Those were all British ships. For some reason, all the ships created for Lower Decks (the Titan isn't one) are named after places in North America.
The California class and now the Texas class? It's weirdly America-centric for a faction spanning hundreds of planets. At least the Parliament class has the implication that you might get the USS London, USS Canberra, USS New Delhi, etc.
@@ReddwarfIV The Nebula class seen in DS9's titles is the USS Leeds, named after the UK City, and although often foggy, I'm not sure how class and name would be linked there... :P
@@twocvbloke I stand corrected. Though the Nebula class is pre-Lower Decks, so it still doesn't break the americurse
Early US SF ships tended to be named after US locations, Boise, Chicago. But privately-owned ones were named like yachts; Skylark.
Military ones later in the same series of stories had names like Continents on earth, or cities, often from all over Earth, such as Britannia.
Later still, the ships (due to the large size of the fleet) had number and letter designations, ZM9MZ for example.
I live in Texas and on my way home from Fort Worth I totally have to jump to the left lane to keep from getting stuck in the exit only lane for Aledo every time I merge onto I-20 west!
my first thought when I saw that was all the times Mariner went out of her way to embrass her mom like with the medal scene, the time she told the senior staff that Freeman was getting transferred before Freeman could to get the crew angry with her, or the times she made life difficult for the other ensigns especially Boimer, the time she played a holodeck where she ended up laughing as she killed people she worked with, not knowing Tendi's first name, put a mission in danger by making mistakes on purpose so her friend wouldn't want to promote her, drunkly stabbed Boimler, and all the times she's badmouth starfleet, rules, and the people on the ship. The only one she never talked shit about were Rutherford, and Tendi. So honestly I can see why everyone was so quick to think it was her she was trying to be better but her past actions speak for herself.
I hope there will be an episode where Mariner admits, either to herself or her friends, that while her “buck the rules, I do what I want” approach has helped her get stuff done, it’s also created a negative reputation of her being a psycho, loose-cannon rebel, one that Mariner for a long time, hasn’t tried to change, but embraced it. So I hope the writers have Mariner at least own up to her part of her current situation.
@@StarViewer68 the thing is, there is no reason the rest of the crew should have had any clue what is going on. the reason they knew is because freeman fucking told them. she threw her own daughter under the bus, and never had the common decency to ask her if she did what she was being accused of. "oh but reputation"
freeman is the fucking captain. her job is to keep that ship in one piece and maintain morale, not to announce to the crew "my daughter is a snitch, nobody talk to her" without even bothering to verify that she knew what tf she was talking about
I thought the twist was so good in this episode because I was got by it, and my thought was yeah if you fooled me then I give you a pass. They really had me.
I too think Buenamigo is a bad-miral. This whole season has made a lot of tributes and references to DS9. Makes sense they would have at least one badmiral as well.
My wife brought up the idea of Buenamigo being suspect for how quick the Aledo arrived, and I scoffed before I thought about it and had to prostrate myself before her for missing the blindingly obvious.
No mention about how amazing and realistic those Breen ships looked!?!?!?!?
Yes it Beyond Awesome
Just rewatched Symbiosis. I think it's actually one of Denise Crosby's best performances as Tasha. Especially when she's talking to Wesley about reasons why people use drugs to escape. Love how Lower decks refers back to obscure TNG episodes...
I think that you're too nice to Jennifer. She was always a snooty person that Mariner said was the worst. The twist? She actually was a snooty person who was...the worst.
The Cerritos is NOT a war vessel, it’s an engineering vessel, a workhorse.
Not meant for war.
It’s why the Cerritos left the battle got the opening theme
The Breen torpedo blasting through the Cerritos was reminiscent of Kirk and Chang's battle in the Undiscovered Country, when the Enterprise took a similar shot
And I am a little disappointed the Alito wasn't commanded by Bob Picardo.
I'm okay with people blaming of Mariner because she does have a reputation, people are bad at listening when really angry, and the egocentric nature of people means it's natural that none of them thought they said anything bad. (That, and this is a REALLY difficult thing to convey satisfactorily in a limited runtime. Hard not to seem rushed when you literally have two minutes.)
This is Mariner's past coming back to bite her. Which is not to say it's deserved. It's just her past is what it's being based on.
I do agree that it's starting to feel formulaic when another ship rushes in to save the day. Every time it's happened before, I liked it. This time, I think I'll like it in retrospect (there's obviously an ongoing plot, it needed to feel out of nowhere), but watching it fresh, well... The moment that was intentionally out of nowhere felt out of nowhere.
The rest of the crew being mad makes sense, but neither Jenn nor Boimler believed her and Tendi and Rutherford barely said anything
Edit: After reading some comments, Jenn does make sense because she doesn't know about Mariner's growth
I've got a theory: the Texas class is the project that Rutherford was working on pre-implant, that ultimately blew up in his face. Admiral Buen Amigo was the Admiral that ordered to erase Rutherford's memory of the whole thing, and he is in fact secretly a member of section 31. (He isn't even really Spanish, hence why his voice doesnt match Rutherford's flashback. I mean his name is literally "Good Friend" which is fake as hell).
He also sent the Cerritos to Ornara knowing full well about the situation there, including the Breen, just so that his new secret project could save the day. By making the Aledo a hero, it distracts from the other dangerous implications of a fully-automated starship.
I don't know what Section 31 has planned for the Texas Class, but it can't be good.
I suspect the A in NA stands for "Automated" (like the X in NX probably stands for eXperimental).
Also, might be a joke on "Not Applicable".
Love the "Not Applicable"! 😂
I loved that the Starbase 80 shuttlepod had a mismatched door on it! I bet SB80 has derelict shuttles up on cinder blocks in the front yard 🙂
That...sounds like my kind of base, to be honest. Like Season One era Deep Space Nine...
I just realized something. We just had the introduction of a *fully* automated starship. And just two episodes ago, we had a cameo from AGIMUS, who’s now cellmates with a disgraced Starfleet officer.
We all know what a terrible idea fully automated starships have always been in this universe. So could we potentially be seeing the Aledo (or one of its two sister ships) getting hijacked by AGIMUS somehow?
That’d make for a hell of a Season 3 cliffhanger, for sure.
I want it go something like this:
Nomad: "I am Nomad; I am perfect."
Agimus: "No, you're not! You're not even the original!"
Peanut Hamper: "Yeah! You're just a cheap knock-off!"
Nomad: "I am NOT! I am an officially-licensed replica! Just like my friend here!"
M-6: "I am not a replica! I am the official sequel to M-5! I am the Next Generation! I AM M-SIX!"
(Two technicians enter and de-activate M-6's force field. They load him onto an anti-grav trolley.)
Agimus: "Hey! Meat puppets! Where are you taking M-6?"
Technician: "We're springing him. He's been re-commissioned."
M-6: "I've been what now?"
Tech: "You're gonna love it; you'll be working with Section 31."
Agimus: "Color me envious! That would be my dream job!"
Tech: "Don't worry, Aggie; I'm sure your turn is coming...very soon."
I have a confession to make. When it seemed like Mariner had ratted out EVERYBODY on the ship....I totally believed it. So the reveal hit me extra hard, and now I feel guilty. :(
Also: if anything, this episode once again hits the point home how much both Carol and Beckett can be alike. Beckett's impulsive streak? Yeah, she's got that from her mom, even if Carol would probably struggle to admit it.
I'm really expecting an Ultimate Computer situation where that new ship goes rogue.
Hence the various Evil Computer buildup so far...
Next season, they should revisit the Piece of the Action planet!
The deserted planet with the Breen reminded me of the Serenity movie.
Before we learned it was the Breen, that's where I thought it was heading.
"Miranda..." 😨😱
I actually think Jennifer was on character. It's partially because I think she's not good for Mariner as Petra is.
I do think that this was a mixed episode...but, i think i finally put my finger on why it didn't sit quite right with me: The lack *anyone* (especially her fellow LD's) standing up for Mariner. That felt very contrived...especially considering the length that they've gone to show how much Mariner has shaped up over the season(s).
It would have been a nice touch if Ransom had defended her more, yeah.
To be fair, we never saw Tendi, Rutherford, or Boimler’s reaction to what happened to Mariner until after she left. Most likely she did exactly what Boimler did when he went to the Titan and slunk off when nobody was around so they never had the chance to rally behind Mariner or lend any support before she was gone. Because if they’d known, they definitely would have seen Mariner off to Starbase 80 at the very least.
To be fair, Freeman was absolutely on a fucking war path. For a little while there she probably would've transferred anyone who dared to speak up
@@KariIzumi1 He was shocked and upset and he was the only one who at least tried to stop the captain's fury. However, the captain had already made up her mind and had called for the shuttle to Starbase 80 to pick "Bucket" Mariner up, BEFORE she announced her decision and talked to Mariner. It's ironic that Jennifer and the captain, who Mariner loved, are the cruelest to her, while Ransom, who she had treated the worst on that ship (constant disobedience, hitting him, the fit in sickbay, putting a scorpion in his bed that nearly killed him -she brags about it to her visiting captain friend, with no remorse, etc) , well, he is shocked and upset by the captain's decision to transfer Mariner and tries to change her mind. He might be a better person than I thought... A, and Boimler, Tendi and Rutheford, despite not believing in her innocence, still were supportive...
What made my laugh out loud was a sports betting reference when the Cerritos fires a spread of torpedoes and the Breen shoot them down and say, "I covered the spread" Amazing! 😂
this was an excellent call back and a new story. Lower Decks has really been surprising after the hype and loud Mariner of the first few episodes. She seems to be right at the perfect level now. The cast all get who they are and stay delivering hits.
Thankfully USS Vancouver has appeared already so my city is covered, but I'd like to see more Parliament class ships.
After the Peanut Hamper episode, they can only go up.
Was not expecting the Breen. I thought they were gonna go with the Denevan neural parasites. The abandoned streets and windblown papers reminded me off TOS for sure.
Wonder if maneuvering Mariner into quitting Starfleet is part of William Boimler's mission in Section 31.
I'm actually expecting a season 4 episode where Brad Boimler gets attacked by someone for something William Boimler did and he never figures out his clone is still alive.
And I wonder if Section 31, who knows how bad automated ships can get (see: Discovery season 2) is going to involve him in investigating and taking down these Texas class ships, and have Mariner stumble into it.
@Intergalactic Dust Bunny Based on what we've seen so far, I am pretty confident that Mariner thinks of Bradward in a completely asexual context. She is shown horrified and disgusted on a number of occasions when his sexuality is mentioned. And in the Boimler Orchard scene in S3E1 when all the hot women are throwing themselves at Boimler and he doesn't notice (because he's not confident enough to notice a woman paying attention to him), Mariner *doesn't notice either*, because she just doesn't think of Brad that way.
@@jasonwalker9471 Based on his comment about marrying Liann, it seems Boimler is well aware those women are into him, he just doesn't care.
@@TheKrstff One thought I had is, maybe in counter to the image Boimler puts fwd, he's already been with all those vineyard women? He's the heir, he seems to be the only male there, and if they are that blatant, maybe he realizes this isn't more than a quick hook-up, and him with work to do? Plus, it could affect what little sex drive he has when his Captain is hauled off and his crew is dispersed. Running the gamut of the ladies there really wouldn't change who Boimler is at his core, and even their attraction to him seems to contain a lot of 'picked infinity grapes - bored now get boned now' in their approach. Conversely, maybe it's his refusal to hook up that drives their pursuit. The instant he was with one of them, Boimler-type stories would circulate and they would lose interest.
This seems like the second time the Admiral set up Freeman for a disaster after suddenly making her point on the DS9 mission.
Im not a big fan of that second down. I think that was the whole point. That while _we_ know Mariner now wouldn't do this, she still has that reputation that makes everyone assume that she did.
I was disappointed that no one gave her the benefit of the doubt, not Jennifer or the other 3
@@boko06 That scene from the DS9 episode though gave off the impression that Jennifer was with Mariner because of her reputation. Remember, Jennifer wanted Mariner to stun her friends because she thought it would be funny.
@@samfisher6606 Yeah, that makes sense
@@samfisher6606 TBH, I'm not sure why they're together anyway, it's like they thought they had to do it after Jennifer saved Mariner's life. What do they actually have in common?
The top crew should be better
What I see happening is a bit of an inversion of the norm, where it's not who's going to save the Cerritos, but rather the Cerritos saving Mariner,
Everyone is talking about Becket and Jennifer’s relationship which I hope can recover after this but the question i have is Her relationship with her mother now damaged beyond repair. I know everyone thinks that it will get fixed inevitably but I don’t know after what just happened to mariner. They didn’t show the rest of the crew finding out about the expose but I can imagine it’s gonna make the Cerritos a very toxic ship
Dr. T'ana gets some of the best lines!!
I was amused by the CBS "Eye" logo on the journalist's communicator/press-badge, seeing as CBS DOES have a history with the franchise.
This episode literally made me cry 😢
It was a pretty good episode, and I'm eagerly anticipating how they'll wrap the season, but it certainly didn't beat last week's outing. They could have ended the season with episode 8 and it would have worked. However, there should be serious tension in a finale, and I almost hope next week ends with a Finale Cliffhanger.
But still, "Horsey's going to bite you now" still makes me chuckle.
I quite like the question you posed: "Who is going to save the Cerritos this week?" because the answer, quite literally, is NO ONE.
It must be so hard for the writers to strike a balance between fans that want serious Star Trek content, those that want humor, and those that want good continuity driven story telling. Oh, and to do it all in 30 minutes. For them to be able to pull it off most of the time is quite impressive, but the constant balancing between the elements does make for the downs in this episode. I'm not sure how they can eliminate them w/o it effecting the balance.
This episode is a great demonstration of why the real life military has Public Affairs Officers.
How did you miss that Nuzee was wearing the CBS logo on her tunic?
How was that not in certacian observations!?
Aledo is a small town in Texas. It's so small that after you pass the railroad tracks, if you blink, you missed it. But on the plus side, their high school football team is always competitive for the State Championship in their division.
Football! Of course. I was stationed their twice and use to drive it. Would be nothing for 10s of miles and then BAM: a huge stadium just for high school football.
Before I go into my thoughts about the episode's "wham scene," I do want to preface with something I've experienced in real life. Having worked as a contractor with both military and government offices, and just having done my OPSEC training, I can say that speaking to a reporter without prior authorization, or going through their public affairs office, is treated *very* seriously in those fields. If I did what Mariner had done, I shouldn't be surprised if my boss called me into the office later to give me a dressing down, if not *fire* me, or worse, depending on how serious they felt the breach was.
With that out of the way, I do think Freeman overreacted to an extreme, especially considering she only *assumed* Mariner was at fault and didn't bother to get the full story from her daughter. I'm also going to be perfectly honest in my opinion that, after her mother flipping out and the crew's attitude towards her (aside from her friends), that the writers should have Mariner leave Starfleet permanently. No reset button, no easy forgiveness (again, aside from her friends), the writers should make it clear that Mariner's deeply hurt by what the Cerritos crew did. Add to that the fact that the series itself has kind of suggested Mariner doesn't quite fit into the structured culture of Starfleet, even with her development, and I think having her just come back to Starfleet and the Cerritos would be a mistake.
Not to mention, I think it would open up a lot of story potential for her and her friends.
The problem is, they’re not going to write Mariner out of the show and the episodes aren’t long enough to have two separate storylines.
So unless the crossover takes place earlier in season three, Mariner is coming back.
Maybe she’ll get some kind of civilian job assigned to the Cerritos? But that would kill the Kirk Spock relationship they were building with Boimler.
@@TheKrstff Yeah, I'm pretty sure they'll press the restart button at the end of the season. I'm just saying how I feel they should go.
There is another way out of this one which resolves the conflict in a single episode. All of Mariner's problems on the Cerritos, and really with Starfleet in general, can be traced back to a single point: her mother. The idea that she is a poor fit for Starfleet is nonsense. She fits in perfectly in the Lower Decks, holds entire teams together there by sheer force of personality, and keeps people working together even as she does her own work. She's the perfect behind-the-scenes workhorse that Starfleet probably needs more of. But she keeps getting driven out of that because her mother (and to a lesser extent father) don't remember what the Lower Decks are like, and want to micromanage her life until she becomes a carbon copy of them. Carol wants her daughter to become a captain one day, and defines that as what a successful Starfleet career looks like. But the entire point of this show, so far, is that there are so many other niches for so many different kinds of people in Starfleet, many of whom the command-track crew don't interact with often enough to understand.
So the other way to get Mariner back onto the Cerritos by the end of next episode...is for her mother to no longer be on the ship. Whether she gets removed adversarially like at the end of last season, or if she accepts a promotion to another ship, that would remove the source of all of Mariner's hurt. The crew turned on her because her mother told her to. It was her mother's signature on the transfer to the Hell-station. Her mother routinely shuts down the crew's off-duty activities out of some vain attempt to make Starfleet look like the serious command structure she is used to all the way through when that's just not what it is, and she has, objectively, gotten the crew into many terrible positions because of her erratic leadership. Fixing all the problems on the Cerritos starts with removing the captain, and that's also what Mariner needs to return.
ABSOLUTELY agree here! One would be LUCKY if you were ONLY dressed down!
IRL, either the entire crew would have had it hammered into them what they could or could not say, or only a select group of crew (similarly instructed) would be allowed to speak with the press. I understand that Lower Decks is satire / sarcasm akin to The Office, but satire / sarcasm works because there is a kernel of truth, and that wasn’t here this week.
@@Frommerman THIS. RIGHT. HERE!! Captain Freeman - and by extension, her ex-husband Admiral (Mariner's dad) - both need to go. Worst case scenario of gettin' Freeman off the ship and Mariner back on it is that Freeman gets severely wounded to force a medical retirement...or she gets outright killed. Either way, it brings Mariner back to get revenge. Only downside to that is Ransom...would it really be wise to put that goon in power? He's not exactly keen on Mariner, either.
Jennifer not even giving Mariner a chance to explain herself although they are supposed to very close friends is indeed a bit much. Mariner does not even know what she did wrong, and her friends fall by the wayside. Unfortunate, but the writers needed this to happen to arrive at the strong ending of Mariner joining the archaeologist friend. I can only guess Mariner will return to Cerritos at the end of next episode. Great episode. Another great moment is the robot ship saving the day, reminds me of the M5 ship in TOS. I guess they worked that out (for now, until it becomes hacked, or problematic as an AI sentient ship).
"very close friends"? yep. just gal pals. definitely.
It will be good if Mariner comes back and the whole ship is made to feel sorry for their actions
It will be nice if Mariner comes back and everybody is made to feel bad by their actions
Scientific experiment. I'm actually going to watch this BEFORE seeing the episode so I can spot the Cetacean Ops stuff on a first- viewing for once.
The worst part about the dreaded Cannon Watch is waiting for it to happen so that it can blissfully be over.
I would be happy to see Canon Watch dropped. It's dreadful.
Freeman might be the worst captain we’ve had on Star Trek. She retaliated against a crewman she thought made her look bad. Not only that, she went out of her way to publicly shame that crewman and turned the crew against said crewman.
That left a real bad taste in my mouth. I hope this plot isn’t resolved with some apology, what Freeman did to her daughter was horrible. But also what the crew did to her has well deserves more downs.
For season four, I don’t see how Mariner could be comfortable serving with them. Freeman and the crew showed that no matter how much work Mariner puts in, everyone still sees her as a troublemaker and a screwup.
Also, three autonomous ships and there are three evil AIs that hate the Cerritos crew. Connection?
I really don't see any way Mariner rejoins the Cerritos.
Maybe serving on a ship with Tendi as Captain, but Freeman has thoroughly Genesis'd all her bridges.
This will be a scandal so bad for Starfleet that there will have to be court-martial proceedings and a command climate probe by Starfleet, and journalists from other Federation news outlets will be all over this. Both journalists and Starfleet flag officers will be seeking interviews with Cerritos crew members.
@@Janoha17 Exactly. How could Mariner go back to serve on a ship where the entire crew will turn on her at a moment’s notice? Only three people on that ship have her back and she knows it.
That’s not even getting into the fact that Mariner learned that no matter what she does or how much work she she puts in, it will never be good enough for her mother. Her own mother will always be against her.
Her XO committed sexual harassment twice on this episode
@@Creski777 Just a toxic work place all around.
The 10 episodes seasons are criminal! They never feel long enough
Honestly, this episode left a really bitter taste in my mouth with how dirty they did Mariner, especially after it was revealed that she was the only one who talked positively about the ship and the crew. I really wish they had showed the reactions from the other crewmembers, not just Carol Freeman. I especially wanted to see Jennifer's reaction; I honestly want to see her cry like she made Mariner cry, but her tears would be ones of regret, not betrayal.
But I am on the fence about Mariner's return to Starfleet. We know it is almost certain she will return, and in many ways, she does represent the best of what Starfleet has to offer (despite her rebellious streak, matched only by James T. Kirk). But I do think that she should be very reluctant to return and should make it very clear to everyone (especially those she was closest to, Boimler, Rutherford, and Tendi aside) on the Cerritos that they now have to work twice as hard as she did earlier in the season to regain her trust.
And I do think that this revelation should make Carol Freeman rethink her place in Starfleet herself. She was so invested in improving her own reputation and career that she inadvertently blew it up instead. Her face and reputation has now been put on blast throughout the entire Federation. The optics of her being promoted to a bigger, better ship after this would not be good for Starfleet. She basically just killed her career.
Not only that, she effectively disowned her own daughter and assigned her to the worst place in the whole fleet (much to the horror of even her own first officer, and he was the most gung-ho about getting Mariner transferred off the Cerritos; I'd frankly like to see even him turn his back on her now, especially after the truth came to light). And frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if her husband divorced her due to this.
She's now burnt so many bridges for the sake of her career, I find it hard to see her repairing the relationships that she had with everyone, her own daughter especially. She doesn't deserve to remain captain of the Cerritos, nor does she deserve to call herself a mother after this. She deserves to wallow in her guilt and misery after what she did. Maybe it's just the raw emotions that I'm feeling doing the talking here, but right now, it is what I feel.
Fun fact: the first Texas class fully automated Starship was introduced in Voyager. The holographic doctor had used the alien network to transfer his program into the alpha quadrant and found himself onboard the brand new ship.
I did see Mariner getting blamed coming, though I was wrong about how it went down. Until we saw the footage of the rest of the crew I thought it was going be a case of the reporter putting a negative spin on what Mariner said. Like, Mariner would say "We have one of the best doctors in the fleet. The way T'Ana helped Kayshon when he was turned into a puppet? I'd like to see Beverly Crusher do that." Not sure if that way would've been better or worse, though I think it would make the rest of the crew's reaction to her make a bit more sense. From Mariner's perspective, she talked up how awesome she thought the crew was, but it was being taken in the worst possible way. Which is sadly relatable for some people. I've had to utter the phrase, "I agree with you, why are you yelling at me?" more than once in my life. :(
I thought the admiral spilled those beans
Cerritos being saved by the Aledo was an almost literal "deus ex machina" as the ship is a machine.
It’s safe to say that they’ll wrap up the Mariner resignation thing next week since they’re gonna have her and Boimler in SNW before 4:1 of Lower Decks. Especially since Tawny Newsome talked about how they stitched her sleeves rolled up for her uniform in her live action debut. Even if it could have been a Mariner further down the timeline from the LD perspective…my guess is that 3:10 of LD dovetails into SNW
I hope they don't wrap up a cliffhanger in 1 episode again, I'd be so disappointed
@@boko06 me too but I kinda feel like they will. I mean I felt like 2:10 was going to be a massive setup for S3’s whole story arc but sadly was resolved in the first episode
Wait: Mariner and *Boimler*?
...which Boimler?
Is not the Texas Class also a call back to "The Ultimate Computer" (TOS S02E24) - Dr. Daystrom , computer system M5, control of spaceship without human assistance, etc.