I've played a lot of Pidgeot decks lately and I think I prefer the Electrode version for ladder. More flexible and less prone to variance while being a solid check to each of the legendary bird openings. In tournament though, yeah I can totally see Marowak being more optimal
@@EarthBoyAdvance really standard build: 2 ofs - Voltorb, Electrode, Pidgey, Pigiotto, Pidgeot, Pokeball, Prof Research, Giovanni 1 ofs - Farfetch, X Speed, Potion, Pokedex/Red Card Electrode has no retreat cost so you can sub 1 X Speed for a Potion, it's really solid utility. Both Pokedex and Red Card can be useful but you can simplify and just run 2 Farfetch. I prefer the higher Pokeball odds personally.
For the porygon in the Dragonite deck, I believe the idea is to help you choose between putting energy on Articuno or the Dragonite, and in certain cases you can also look at the top card of your deck, and if it isn't what you wanted (searching for a Dragonair or Dragonite for example) shuffle your deck with Pokéball. I used this concept in a Caterpie deck but it didn't go well in there, it's cool to see it here tho!!!!
those are the ideas, unfortunatly tho will the idea to shuffle your deck if you dont like your top card ( ppl have been trying this with pokedex aswell ) works out meh. i just dont think any of the decks that try to use this because it technically makes sense are actually good.
Thank you for these videos, Jeff. They're really well put together and datasets of these sizes really speak volumes. I love seeing your data driven analysis on the meta
Porygon is for helping to smooth out the crazy energy requirements the deck has. Dragonite is really slow and you need to know ASAP if you need to attach to dratini for a late game sweep or attach to articuno to start exerting some pressure. It is very useful to know if you’re gonna get your dragonite next turn, or a misty to set up a articuno.
Just a nitpick but I've now heard it in a couple of videos but the stage 2 Pokemon is Pidgeot not Pidgeotto. I know it really doesn't matter but just thought I'd let you know.
That's how it works in the game, but not in the tcg for some reason. Stage one pokemon in the games are basic pokemon in the tcg, and then stage 2s in the game are labeled as stage 1s in the tcg, with the pattern repeating for stage 3s in the games being stage 2s in the tcg.
Tbh Pidegeotto does sound more like the name of the final stage than Pidgeot does in my opinion so I can understand the mistake, it should've been Pidgey > Pidgeot > Pidgeotto I reckon
Man this off meta decks are looking pretty good, I wouldn't be surprised to see more players experimenting more in future tournaments, thanks for the report my dude
Why though? The stats clearly show that the decks people were playing from the very beginning are the ones overperforming and that the offmeta stuff is getting pushed out more, even though at this point we are seeing decks built to counter mewtwo or pikachu. If anything, these stats tell us that the meta got figured out very quickly and the concepts werent even optimized. Now that they are, they seem even more oppressive than in the beginning. I personally would not be celebrating what the stats tell us here.
I still dont understand starmie ex. A 2 cost 0 retreat 130HP pokemon that deals 90 damage, just seems like a better pikachu EX for water. An arcanine would need a giovanni to oneshot it, giovanni pikachu cant kill it in one, 130 means its 1 potion away from not being 2 shot by 70 attack moves, if you have 2 and get sabrina’d you can put the other in front and its free retreat. With 1 potion its out of range for a pikachu-zebstrika combo too. Its just a shame that its weak to electric and it’d probably need a strong neutral but its just so solid
I’ve been having my most recent successes with the Charizard EX/Rapidash deck you posted a week and a half ago. It’s been doing quite well for me into the Mewtwo matchup, which is what I’ve been seeing in the event.
I belive the Porygon acts similiar to the Pokedex tech, allowing you to scope your top card before deciding if you want to shuffle your deck with the pokeball.
Loving these meta breakdowns! Been playing almost the same exact dnite list with zapdos ex over porygon and it is easily my favorite deck! People sleep on baby articuno
Would it be possible to see some of the numbers when you showcase the decks themselves? How do you typically evaluate performance for the off-meta decks?
Great stuff as always. I really hope this game gets more content ASAP. I don’t buy the “it’s a slow burn / it’s just a card collector simulator” arguments; if there’s not at least PVE content on the horizon they’re going to hemorrhage a lot of players. I WANT to give them money but they’re giving me no reason to…
I'm surprised there isn't a single Venusaur deck putting up good results, from my experience online the deck has game against both Mewtwo and Pikachu. I play Exeggutor EX as a second Pokemon, which is tanky and starts to put insane pressure with just 1 energy, giving me the time to develop Venusaur on the bench. I wonder if the deck isn't played at all or if my experience with it is pure anecdotal.
@daigustoemeral3710 you only have 2 evolution line and one of them is just a stage 1 evolution. I basically never had problems to evolve into Venusaur in games that weren't lightning fast (and by that I mean turn 3-4 gg).
Excellent video as always Jeff, curious if you or anyone else has any insight on why Electrode might be performing better in the Surge deck than Magneton. Is 0 retreat cost just that good?
The blastoise deck was mine and was a bit outdated, i played kangaskhan over the weekend and it is indeed better. (I also already tried out a second articuno a few weeks ago, but I wasn’t happy with it)
Unfortunately its a 2 stage low damage pokemon that relies on stalling to get online, ashame as its friend alakazam is much better and even that is overshadowed by mewtwo
It has an awful Pikachu match-up, low play rate, and only sporadic results. It had some top finishes, but it is a known deck and not worth calling out every week.
I think you should add the energy logo for deck with more than 1 element. Btw I see other variation of Kabutops deck, which one is better between Onix vs Mankey promo ?
Arcanine ex enjoyer here, vanilla moltres feels way better than aerodactyl as winning a coin flip can get you a point instead of just a shuffle. It is also a fire basic that uses the ramp from moltres ex nicely with a good hp stat and cheap to retreat
Yeah they are using porygon to make the dragonite more consistant. The problem with porygon is decks with stage 2s dont wanna give up the bench space and decks like articuno 18 trainer would rather use the fossil as it doesnt get pulled by pokeball and sometimes you can discard it to keep from losing a prize point. The only decks porygon might find an eventual home i can see is maybe machamp EX or gengar EX to make their turn 3 curve more consistant.
Minor but important data nitpick: You used the "%" symbol in the graphics when talking about the performance delta, but that's the wrong unit, it means something entirely different. It's "pp", for percentage points. Saying Pikachu had a 13% increase in meta share means it went from 30% to .30 * 1.15 = 34.5% meta share. Saying it had a 13pp increase means it went from 30% to 43%, which is what you're saying. I know "pp" is a more obscure metric, but using "%" is both technically incorrect and. more importantly, creates ambiguity and confusion that doesn't really need to be there. Like it's pretty minor, but I know you tend to be really on top of details like this so it was just really odd to see. Thank you so much for the content!
I completely disagree that it is ambiguous when presented with the context of the two charts above. If anything referencing percentage points, most people won't be familiar with it, and thus, having to field questions about it is more ambiguous. Context matters here, and I think I communicated what happened pretty clearly.
The critique about using percentage points (pp) versus percentages (%) is technically valid, but its importance depends on the context and audience. In the case of a kids' game, this distinction likely doesn’t matter much. Most of the target audience, including children and their parents, are unlikely to notice or care about such a technical nuance. They are more focused on the fun and accessibility of the game rather than precise terminology in a meta-analysis. Simplicity is often more effective in this context, and using "%" is more familiar to a "GENERAL AUDIENCE", even if it’s not as accurate.
@@HooglandiaPocket Alright, so long as you're aware of it and are making an intentional choice rather than a mistake that's fine! I've had confusion go both ways in my research so I can't really say one way or the other is truly "most clear". I can only say that, as someone used to seeing "pp", it did throw me personally for a loop for a few minutes until I figured out what you meant. That certainly could just be the academic bubble at play, though!
I think the point about playing more basics is not a universal one. I think it's good in Mewtwo decks in particular because one of your two core Pokemon lines is really awful as a lead. I think it's a terrible idea in Venusaur ex, Arcanine ex, etc.
For fun I like to do off meta decks and go into random fights and I choose basic instead of tcg player cus like why would i go into basic with a meta deck. Tell me why 100% of people searching for basic are running pikachu decks 😂
Pikachu and Mewtwo are basic, and Charizard is stage 2. The Moltres energy loader up front has more potential but takes more turns to get the evolutions vs Mewtwo being loaded by Gardevoir on the back end.
Charizard is just a bit slower than the top two decks, still got a leg up on M2 somehow, i think the deck will only get better once we get evo tutors and better trainers
I’ve been having a lot of success with the Charizard/Rapidash deck he posted about a week and a half ago. Not losing 2 points to Moltres dying is big and you can usually stall enough while applying pressure until your Charizard is ready.
Thanks for talking about my Marowak Pidgeot deck, I’m convinced that if more people pick it up it’s going to start topping.
I've played a lot of Pidgeot decks lately and I think I prefer the Electrode version for ladder. More flexible and less prone to variance while being a solid check to each of the legendary bird openings.
In tournament though, yeah I can totally see Marowak being more optimal
@@demacrycan you share the build? Curious how electrode+ pidgeot would work
@@EarthBoyAdvance really standard build:
2 ofs - Voltorb, Electrode, Pidgey, Pigiotto, Pidgeot, Pokeball, Prof Research, Giovanni
1 ofs - Farfetch, X Speed, Potion, Pokedex/Red Card
Electrode has no retreat cost so you can sub 1 X Speed for a Potion, it's really solid utility. Both Pokedex and Red Card can be useful but you can simplify and just run 2 Farfetch. I prefer the higher Pokeball odds personally.
For the porygon in the Dragonite deck, I believe the idea is to help you choose between putting energy on Articuno or the Dragonite, and in certain cases you can also look at the top card of your deck, and if it isn't what you wanted (searching for a Dragonair or Dragonite for example) shuffle your deck with Pokéball. I used this concept in a Caterpie deck but it didn't go well in there, it's cool to see it here tho!!!!
Def swapping the porygon though lol
Can also use pokeball to shuffle the deck after scanning with porygon if the top card is bad
Right I thought the same, an interesting tech yet I don't love giving up the bench space for it
Good card all dual colours should play it
those are the ideas, unfortunatly tho will the idea to shuffle your deck if you dont like your top card ( ppl have been trying this with pokedex aswell ) works out meh. i just dont think any of the decks that try to use this because it technically makes sense are actually good.
Thank you for these videos, Jeff. They're really well put together and datasets of these sizes really speak volumes. I love seeing your data driven analysis on the meta
Porygon is for helping to smooth out the crazy energy requirements the deck has. Dragonite is really slow and you need to know ASAP if you need to attach to dratini for a late game sweep or attach to articuno to start exerting some pressure. It is very useful to know if you’re gonna get your dragonite next turn, or a misty to set up a articuno.
This was honestly one of the best breakdows ive seen.
We do this weekly round these parts.
Just a nitpick but I've now heard it in a couple of videos but the stage 2 Pokemon is Pidgeot not Pidgeotto. I know it really doesn't matter but just thought I'd let you know.
That's how it works in the game, but not in the tcg for some reason. Stage one pokemon in the games are basic pokemon in the tcg, and then stage 2s in the game are labeled as stage 1s in the tcg, with the pattern repeating for stage 3s in the games being stage 2s in the tcg.
Tbh Pidegeotto does sound more like the name of the final stage than Pidgeot does in my opinion so I can understand the mistake, it should've been Pidgey > Pidgeot > Pidgeotto I reckon
Yeah. I hate that. Lol
@@sammoon7897 Yeah, but it's not.
@@Valfalk24He knows. He’s saying Pidgeot is the stage 2 pokemon because it’s the final form. Not Pidgeotto.
Can we please get at least 25 preferably 50 or more deckslots damn
thanks for meta reports and insights on them, looking forward for more meta reviews in the future for ptcg pocket. cheers
Thank you for these videos. Lots of info to help try new things. Great work as always.
Don't comment often, but absolutely loving the content Jeff, really appreciate your breakdowns!
Man this off meta decks are looking pretty good, I wouldn't be surprised to see more players experimenting more in future tournaments, thanks for the report my dude
Why though? The stats clearly show that the decks people were playing from the very beginning are the ones overperforming and that the offmeta stuff is getting pushed out more, even though at this point we are seeing decks built to counter mewtwo or pikachu. If anything, these stats tell us that the meta got figured out very quickly and the concepts werent even optimized. Now that they are, they seem even more oppressive than in the beginning. I personally would not be celebrating what the stats tell us here.
My guess is the Porygon is there to act as a pseudo brainstorm with pokeball to help make sure you get the entire Dragonite line
Love this content, Jeff. Engagement for the engagement gods.
Awesome breakdowns. Could get use to this every week.
Also surprised that corner arbok weezing isn’t showing up anywhere.
Its being played, but pretty mixed results. I expect it Picks up more if mewtwo grows in share more.
Great video. 👍 I'm excited to see how Arcanine EX develops. 😁
I'd also like to see more Flareon and/or Ninetales Blaine decks.
I still dont understand starmie ex. A 2 cost 0 retreat 130HP pokemon that deals 90 damage, just seems like a better pikachu EX for water. An arcanine would need a giovanni to oneshot it, giovanni pikachu cant kill it in one, 130 means its 1 potion away from not being 2 shot by 70 attack moves, if you have 2 and get sabrina’d you can put the other in front and its free retreat.
With 1 potion its out of range for a pikachu-zebstrika combo too.
Its just a shame that its weak to electric and it’d probably need a strong neutral but its just so solid
Its just that pikachu comes up too often
I love playing B-tier and off-meta decks and so this is perfect for me. Love it
Oooh, that Flareon Greninja list looks really fun. Gonna have to try that one out.
Great video ! I'm defo gonna try that Greninja Weezing deck, looks fun
I’ve been having my most recent successes with the Charizard EX/Rapidash deck you posted a week and a half ago. It’s been doing quite well for me into the Mewtwo matchup, which is what I’ve been seeing in the event.
I belive the Porygon acts similiar to the Pokedex tech, allowing you to scope your top card before deciding if you want to shuffle your deck with the pokeball.
Loving these meta breakdowns! Been playing almost the same exact dnite list with zapdos ex over porygon and it is easily my favorite deck! People sleep on baby articuno
Would it be possible to see some of the numbers when you showcase the decks themselves? How do you typically evaluate performance for the off-meta decks?
The off meta round ups all finished with two losses or less in events with at least 7 rounds.
Great stuff as always.
I really hope this game gets more content ASAP. I don’t buy the “it’s a slow burn / it’s just a card collector simulator” arguments; if there’s not at least PVE content on the horizon they’re going to hemorrhage a lot of players. I WANT to give them money but they’re giving me no reason to…
I'm surprised there isn't a single Venusaur deck putting up good results, from my experience online the deck has game against both Mewtwo and Pikachu.
I play Exeggutor EX as a second Pokemon, which is tanky and starts to put insane pressure with just 1 energy, giving me the time to develop Venusaur on the bench.
I wonder if the deck isn't played at all or if my experience with it is pure anecdotal.
Probably the consistency to evolve is the problem
It has sporadic results here and there, but a generally bad win rate. Just inconsistent and not as strong as payoff as something like Charizard.
@daigustoemeral3710 you only have 2 evolution line and one of them is just a stage 1 evolution. I basically never had problems to evolve into Venusaur in games that weren't lightning fast (and by that I mean turn 3-4 gg).
Clefairy & Clefable in the Mewtwo deck is clutch.
Excellent video as always Jeff, curious if you or anyone else has any insight on why Electrode might be performing better in the Surge deck than Magneton. Is 0 retreat cost just that good?
Yes, by a lot. Let's lead on electro to take hits and retreat to pika once set up at full health.
The blastoise deck was mine and was a bit outdated, i played kangaskhan over the weekend and it is indeed better. (I also already tried out a second articuno a few weeks ago, but I wasn’t happy with it)
PORYGON can see ur next card. Before u shuffle ur deck with pokeball or after u draw 2, u can decide if ur best move is to wait a turn etc.
I been doing great with gengar I'm surprised to see it not being played at all
Unfortunately its a 2 stage low damage pokemon that relies on stalling to get online, ashame as its friend alakazam is much better and even that is overshadowed by mewtwo
Can I guess the contents of the video just by having watched your streams this week? Yes. Am I watching for engagement? Yep let's gooo more pocket
Awesome video awesome graphics definitely deserve a follow, i saw the greninja starmie video before but why no mention here is it not so good?
It has an awful Pikachu match-up, low play rate, and only sporadic results. It had some top finishes, but it is a known deck and not worth calling out every week.
Love the video. Great job.
Man, people playing Red Card instead of a second Sabrina/Giovanni/Erika makes me scratch my head.
Hopefully get lucky with charizard packs for that Flareon Greninja deck. Looks really fun!
Melmetal Koga is really consistent for me, just metal energy btw
I am surprised you didn't mention the Mankey Machomp deck
I think you should add the energy logo for deck with more than 1 element.
Btw I see other variation of Kabutops deck, which one is better between Onix vs Mankey promo ?
what happened to starmie ex decks?? or is too weak into pikachu for these tournaments?
They do not put up consistent results no.
I’m excited for the promo Mewtwo so I can try out out in a Mewtwo deck. Mewtwo is my least played deck, but the card art is so good
Arcanine ex enjoyer here, vanilla moltres feels way better than aerodactyl as winning a coin flip can get you a point instead of just a shuffle. It is also a fire basic that uses the ramp from moltres ex nicely with a good hp stat and cheap to retreat
That is a fun shout. Will try that out.
Where do I go if I wanna play in these tournaments?
Yeah they are using porygon to make the dragonite more consistant. The problem with porygon is decks with stage 2s dont wanna give up the bench space and decks like articuno 18 trainer would rather use the fossil as it doesnt get pulled by pokeball and sometimes you can discard it to keep from losing a prize point. The only decks porygon might find an eventual home i can see is maybe machamp EX or gengar EX to make their turn 3 curve more consistant.
Thanks for the review. Is there a way to determine how the match-ups are, depending on who goes first or second ?
There is not.
Hey Jeff, awesome video as usual! Where are you able to pull in this raw data? I assume this comes from a multitude of tournament runners?
Most tournaments are run on limitlesstcg.com/ and I group the data from the largest events each week there.
do you do a written version of these anywhere?
Nope. There is no money to be made from written content unfortunately.
Where can I find Pokey tournaments? I would like to enter some
Limitlesstcg.com
I think Porygon is so you can reshuffle for better draws with PokeBall to fix your Dragonite evo but idk.
I know you arent a fan of Red Card in most of these decks, what would you replace red card with?
More basics if they are on less than 5 or more utility trainers like potion/xspeed/gio
Are we getting you on bluesky?
Life is happier with less scroll media. Not making new accounts anywhere.
Where do you find the tournaments?
Limitlesstcg.com
So that’s the blastoise deck I went up against last night
My Jolteon/Eelektross deck consistently beats Pika & Moltres decks, Eelektross is very underrated
Minor but important data nitpick: You used the "%" symbol in the graphics when talking about the performance delta, but that's the wrong unit, it means something entirely different. It's "pp", for percentage points. Saying Pikachu had a 13% increase in meta share means it went from 30% to .30 * 1.15 = 34.5% meta share. Saying it had a 13pp increase means it went from 30% to 43%, which is what you're saying.
I know "pp" is a more obscure metric, but using "%" is both technically incorrect and. more importantly, creates ambiguity and confusion that doesn't really need to be there. Like it's pretty minor, but I know you tend to be really on top of details like this so it was just really odd to see.
Thank you so much for the content!
I completely disagree that it is ambiguous when presented with the context of the two charts above. If anything referencing percentage points, most people won't be familiar with it, and thus, having to field questions about it is more ambiguous.
Context matters here, and I think I communicated what happened pretty clearly.
The critique about using percentage points (pp) versus percentages (%) is technically valid, but its importance depends on the context and audience. In the case of a kids' game, this distinction likely doesn’t matter much. Most of the target audience, including children and their parents, are unlikely to notice or care about such a technical nuance. They are more focused on the fun and accessibility of the game rather than precise terminology in a meta-analysis. Simplicity is often more effective in this context, and using "%" is more familiar to a "GENERAL AUDIENCE", even if it’s not as accurate.
@@HooglandiaPocket Alright, so long as you're aware of it and are making an intentional choice rather than a mistake that's fine! I've had confusion go both ways in my research so I can't really say one way or the other is truly "most clear".
I can only say that, as someone used to seeing "pp", it did throw me personally for a loop for a few minutes until I figured out what you meant. That certainly could just be the academic bubble at play, though!
Sheesh cool off meta decks
I wonder if he uses Porygon for the same purpose I use Pokedex. looking at the top and see if i want to shuffle it away with a pokeball.
What website for this data?
I think the point about playing more basics is not a universal one. I think it's good in Mewtwo decks in particular because one of your two core Pokemon lines is really awful as a lead. I think it's a terrible idea in Venusaur ex, Arcanine ex, etc.
Great stuff!
Having way too much fun with weezing and arbok deck (no muk), lot of success against mewtwo as well as a solid deck in general
Have all the meta relevant ex cards, but missing one or two of most of the three diamond cards
Its only a matter of time before my blaine arcanine deck is meta :)
Does pokeball actually shuffle deck? That could be a reason to play Porygon
It does shuffle your deck
@ the animation shuffles, but the text of the card doesn’t specify shuffling the deck
Where’s my boy Venusaur?
Not really putting up results despite being played. Stage twos are inconsistent and the payoff for Venu is lower than something like Charizars.
Hello, can i do a spanish version of you video? 🙏
And then there is me with 8 Mewtwo Ex but not a single gardevoir nore kirlia :(
The GOAT keeps GOATing, love the new content for the new game.
For fun I like to do off meta decks and go into random fights and I choose basic instead of tcg player cus like why would i go into basic with a meta deck. Tell me why 100% of people searching for basic are running pikachu decks 😂
great video jeff, thank you!
Are you on the internet right now?
Charizard downfall needs to be studied.... wasted crown
Pikachu and Mewtwo are basic, and Charizard is stage 2. The Moltres energy loader up front has more potential but takes more turns to get the evolutions vs Mewtwo being loaded by Gardevoir on the back end.
Charizard is just a bit slower than the top two decks, still got a leg up on M2 somehow, i think the deck will only get better once we get evo tutors and better trainers
I’ve been having a lot of success with the Charizard/Rapidash deck he posted about a week and a half ago. Not losing 2 points to Moltres dying is big and you can usually stall enough while applying pressure until your Charizard is ready.