The Mystery of The Gospel of Mark
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ย. 2024
- One of the most puzzling questions in the New Testament for me has always been the mysterious ending of the Gospel of Mark. Specifically, Mark 16: 9-20. It says some good stuff... but then says some very un-Markish stuff. What's going on? Did the original ending actually end abruptly? Was it lost or added over time, or something else? And what are we to do with a text that says Christians should handle poisonous snakes and drink poison? I interviewed respected biblical scholar, Dr. Clark Bates, to give some clarity.
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I just admire Melissa your “busy mind” . Sometimes going into uncomfortable Christian basic life . Pressing to look for answers . Going to the intellectual. Thank you ever so much❤
I've been a word studying Christian since 1995, but in the past year, I have dug deeper into biblical scholarship than I ever have. As much as I love the extensive learning, I do find it has opened up a lot more questions than I've ever had. Sometimes I wonder if ignorance really is bliss. (just kidding, kind of)
i've thought that for years. I had a friend named Ross, back when i was in college, and when i went to his home, his whole family never went to church, never read their Bible, but they all say they love Jesus and seemed content. I wanted to be that blissfully ignorant, but knew i couldn't be. Now, I understand that IF they are christians, they will not be as blissful in eternity, perhaps...or maybe they just had it made. I don't know. I tend to think this is where the Bema Seat of Christ is going to make this make sense. I'm just saying that those that work for crowns will enjoy their rewards for eternity. I don't know how that looks.
@@Scotty-Z70Excellent perspective, thank you for sharing.
I think we have to accept you will never 100% figure out everything written in the Bible in this life, It is both a simple message for beginners but also a very deep and complex message. I think it will probably all be clear after we leave this body and join the Lord Jesus.
@@buckjones4901 Yes. 1 Corinthians 13:12
Keep digging, I did heavy heavy study for about 5 years and had a ton of questions but as I studied and dug I found good answers that were very edifying and strengthened my faith massively.
Please, please, please do have more of this! Please have more info on topics like this.
I agree with you, Barbara. Proverbs says there is wisdom in many counsels. You may also enjoy Baruch Korman, who has a PhD in translation. Enjoy!
@reneewachter1925 thank you.
Yes!!!
@reneewachter1925 I have been listening to Dr. Korman. Thank you for this information. Oh my this very old granny has so much more to learn. Thank you again.
Yes! Us bible nerds definitely love this kind of stuff!
That was AWESOME instruction, Doctor!! Thank you!!😊
Love this discussion. I atudy as deep as i can into scripture to understand better. I ask God to answer my questions in studying, and he does as I keep studying and listening to the Holy Spirit and proof against scripture in its fullness, Old and New Testament alike. But my trust is in God to show me and teach me as I grow in Him.
Amen
Great discussion! "Textual criticism" is actually a blessing to our faith - God's Word is accurate and true! Thank you both. (And do have another such, on the John passage. :-))
Yes, it is an honest scholarly approach.
This was covered with such care and love for those of us who would listen to it. Thank you Melissa for your thoughtfulness in serving God’s people. 🙏🏽❤️🙏🏽
"God preserved His Word through the differences" -- !
Is that right?
Two things that are different are not the same.
What a great explanation Doctor. Thanks Melissa for sharing this.
This is a great interview! Fascinating & helpful. I would love a follow up discussing the passage in John. Thanls
It's impossible to please God without faith.
I like his word “authority” in reference to the apostles using the signs and wonders to show their authority since the written word was not available at that time. Now we have the authority of God’s word. Sign gifts may still exist but their prominence isn’t necessary. Charles Swindoll says after the New Testament was canonized around 100-150 AD the sign gifts died out.
As I listened, I thought about my Mormon missionary friends and Muslim neighbor who say the Bible is corrupted. I go back to my BIOLA prof who said there are over 2000 variants in translation but nothing that changes doctrine. (Unless you’re Catholic!)
The minute you start adding or subtracting things from The Bible you call into question the whole thing. Can't go there. Everyone has an agenda. Cessationists hold on to any and every argument they can to support their form of godliness without any power. But Paul says avoid these people.
Well, if you're concerned about scribes changing God's word, you should be thankful that all the changes that they made over the centuries to the manuscripts that ended up being used to produce the critical editions from which the KJV was produced and, later, the Textus Receptus are now being scraped away so that we're now able to enjoy God's word in the purest form we've possessed it for close to two millenia.
Its amazing how😢 many Christians fight for having no supernatural power. Power is not a dirty word Jesus said in
Act told them to tarry in Jerusalem until they were indued with power from on high. Its the Holy Spirit in is that that does the works.
What jumbled mess of an explanation. You say ok may 1 manuscript then you site several manuscripts.
Let's just sit in a pew. I SO DISAGREE.
This is ridiculous
And some people are 'power seekers', but not fruit seekers.
The Fruit of the Spirit is Love, Joy, peace , long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and self- control.
Galatians 5:22-23
Jesus said not to rejoice over the demons submitted to you, but rather that your name is written in heaven.
Luke 10:20
There is no one that has the genuine gift of healing as it was in time of early church.
Funny how James 5:14-16 says that Believers were to call the Elders to pray over the sick and anoint with oil. The sick person was to confess their sins, and elders prayer of faith would heal them.
Even Paul told Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach. Paul didn't heal him.
Also
I have been a Believer for 44 years, been to various churches and denominations, and never saw or heard of one actual account of the Biblical speaking in various languages as in Acts where Unbelievers heard the plan of Salvation in their language.
We actually don't need it. Missionaries today study languages.
Just like we have Dr's that heal people through medicine.
Casting out demons. Absolutely. I have done it, but it certainly does not take hours on end, yelling and all that. That isn't even Biblical.
A few words or sentences per Jesus and Apostles.
But I do fast and pray like the Bible tells me too.
It’s in the Bible! Or something 😆
After we have faced the judgement and are home, we will still be learning and teaching. When we are home, many MANY more layers of understandings in scripture will be revealed. We may even say things like "how did people NOT see/know that this verse meant that its so obvious" ... We see in part and know in part right now. Blessings in Jesus as you seek for treasure with all of your heart. -Bryan
This is the most fascinating message I have ever heard and I'm in my 60s! Thank you and God bless both of you.
For such lovely scholarly dialogue, thank you
With the poison and snakes, definitely about God providing protection from them. Examples of apostles being protected. Also, do not put the Lord your God to the test. With the rest of the verse, one issue is many on social media make these practices much more dramatic than they normally are. The ultimate proof of the pudding is life transformation. Not everyone we pray for will experience that change of course. But it is definitely worth it for the ones to do!
Well done excellent teaching of how to handle these kind of things . Thank you both 😊
Coming out of England. Answers NOT all about monasteries! Translations? GOD, in spite of monasteries, is able to keep GOD's WORD! FOREVER! 🙏🧔♀️💥
This is why my husband's family will only read KJV. They've listened to the arguments presented by one writer/teacher and refuse to look at it more deeply. We just let it go.
Thank you Melissa
Yes, when he said to compare scripture with scripture for understanding. Everything written in scripture is true, but not everything applies to us now. This is why we’re instructed in 2 Tim 2:15 to rightly divide the word of truth.
I want to know everything you do, Megan! I feel the world is ready to be harvested. I want to know sound doctrine, etc. …to give an answer for the hope that is in you.”
😳😬😉🤪 Melissa! Sorry.
Great video ❤
Wow. He did a great job of summarizing the key elements of textual criticism. I've tried to read about it, but always got lost in the minutiae.
We can do all things through Christ. No fear! We have dominion over all creeping things.
Melissa, Great Guest. A suggestion: Check Baruch Korman who has a PhD in translation.
Wow! Great interview! Great information
This is an excellent video, very much needed for believers.
I appreciate your work on this subject.
Didn’t get a chance to watch. But, it was in the Byzantine manuscripts in 4 Century!
Wonderful video! I appreciate learning more about how God manages His Word. Thank you!
Thank you...I would never have had such an opportunity to have this information. Love this! Thank you.
Is there any way of taking out the requests for donations to Harris's campaign that youtube puts on this page and every other Christian youtuber's posts?
She has no control over that, the only thing you can do is use a blocker, Brave web browser can block ads on YT as far as I have seen.
Ad blocker.
Try using ad blocking software.
It's TH-cams algorithm. I keep getting the donation adds for Hamas, sorry Gazza. It's outside the control of the TH-camr unfortunately. They should be able to block certain adds that have a conflict of interest though.
Unfortunately, no TH-camr has any control over that. That's strange that they would even put that on a video like this.
Thank you for clarifying the scripture which I personally questioned.
They did not "clarify the scripture," they excised scripture from their "bibles."
Another note... When you "question" scripture you are putting yourself in the position of judging scripture. Beware, that makes scripture below or under you.
@@warnerchandler9826Exactly!
"But to this man will I look, even
to him that is poor and of a
contrite spirit, and trembles
at my Word."
(Isaiah 66:2)
Therefore, behold, I am against
the prophets, saith the LORD,
that STEAL My Words every
one from his neighbour.
(Jeremiah 23:30)
@@mathete9968 Yes. Amen.
Great discussion! This is the conclusion I’ve come to as well. I love textual criticism!!
Melissa, I know that when they were all three alive, there was quite a bit of dialogue between Richard Baukham, James Dunn, and Larry Hurtado regarding first century "worship" of Jesus; would you consider chiming in, or doing an episode regarding this?
Also, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the "New Perspective of Paul".
❤ I love you and your content.
Excellent discussion, Melissa - thanks to you both...
☝️😎
A fascinating discussion! ❤
I got lost listening to this video. I think explaining such a complex thing we need to have a visual. CHARTS will help. Explaining while showing your thoughts along with a chart would help a lot. Thank you
This was a great video well done. Thank you.
Brilliant! Today as a christian I hear that "the bible is corrupt" on a daily basis, so this conversation contained valuable information as an apologist💪🏽
John 6:4 was added to add an extra Passover to extend Jesus' ministry to 3 yrs. It actually was 70 weeks.
Q: How much do these variations impact the True meaning of the Gospels? It would seem that that would be a crucial thing to address.
We need more people to hear this. They need to understand the history of the bible itself and be better equipped to answer difficult questions they will be asked if they are doing what Christ commanded us to do when he said to preach to all nations.
I think what he said that about the message of the gospel is spread about in the Bible in many places, Chuck Missler compared it to a 3D hologram, that you can tear part of the Bible out, but the message is still there, just not as clear as before. God I am sure has a hand in preserving his message even through the mistakes made by mankind, even if well intentioned.
You just gotta love the attitude that Missler and you express: poor, old weak "god," cannot preserve his word (like he promised), but we humans, scholars every one of us, can still hunt and gather the real word from amongst all these hundreds of translations (just in English).
Chuck Missler was strongly in favor of the longer ending.
@@warnerchandler9826 Where did you get that silly idea? God works through man to accomplish some things, and other things he just outright does. That message is throughout the Bible, like a Father working with his children, letting them participate, but sometimes, just like kids, they will make mistakes, or not like Fathers rules an rebel and think they are smarter than him, when in the end it will come back to bite them in the....
There was a taylor in the 1930s in a communist country who had only a portion of that page of the bible containing the last twelve verses and knew Christ personally through them and decided to test verse 18 even though he knew that salvation in Christ was more important. So he went door to door and a neighbour was miraculously healed, so he returned to his shop and daily witnessed to his customers. According to Paul some person receive gifts of healing etc.
The person was Watchman Nee who like us today contended with liberals scholars, athiests and agnostic and the taylor's testimony was one of many that encourage and strenghtened his faith
I would like to say that I am pleased that my rabbit hole led me to your channel. I actually found it on my way back to the surface of basic Christianity. It has actually tripled the questions that I have been asking in search of the true God. I wondered if you have ever in the process of your searching looked at the origins of the Bible as we know it today? Why just the 66 books, to the exclusion of almost as many original canonical texts? I am uncovering a vast trove of conflicting information causing me to dig deeper. I feel like this path may fit right in your wheelhouse...maybe?
With or without the long ending, the Gospel is still the same!
Is that so?
Two things that are different
are not the same.
I think this was FASCINATING! I think there is edification in both. If God didn’t want it, it wouldn’t have survived or would have been like the other two options. It would be clear. It to encourage believers to keep going, and amongst darkness, there will be more signs.
The only push back I would give is to your guest is historically is the signs also lessened because the laity weren’t encouraged or taught. Plus they were in “largely nominal” Christian environments. I say nominal because if the leader converted then the kingdom of land did and was forced. It was about power and control often. Sadly. Christian history is not amazing. 😢 but it is what it is. And we own it, learn from it. And don’t repeat. And why literacy is SO important. And why though I would agree, you do see sign gifts though in mission fields, especially where there hasn’t been the gospel before. I have heard many first hand accounts. 😮 the Bible is sufficient but our God is alive and dwells inside us and still speaks, not like the idols people worship. So we can expect this. However, if you are not bible literate you can be fooled. So read your bible. Be holy as He is holy. Work out your salvation daily, because it’s not complete until you die. (Grace alone was not buying your grace and what Luther was against maybe Melissa you can research what Luther actually meant by that?)
Overall, fantastic
Oh and the signs are really “the Gift”, the Holy Spirit making himself known. It’s not us. It’s Gid showing up. 1 Corinthians 12:1 HCSB. We make it about spiritual “gifts” but what if it’s not the right word. It’s more like fruit of the Holy Spirit? Him making himself known? And we are a vessel? Working in tandem? And we’ve twisted it to make it about us? Because that’s what we do? Proof of salvation, proof of who and what kingdom we belong too?
Just curious, why not just leave the longer ending in, just to finish completing the thought of what was said? If I was a baby Christian, I wouldn't know that the saying or thought hasn't been completed?
Some translations do, some don't.
@@midimusicforeverIt is willy nilly at best. But if you have a modern English translation and think you have the Word of God, just hang around a year or so, your Bible will change yet again.
My Bible has not changed for 400 years. I wonder which is the Words of God?
Thank you and will be back to watch in full.
Just a quick other question? If we say signs wonders and miracles aren’t part of our life. Didn’t Jesus say that we would be known by Our Love? Isn’t it a Miracle if Christians Would Live in Love instead of the tearing down we do? Just a Thought!
Absolutely. We are to be known for loving one another.
You want to see the power and glory of God....look at someone's love walk!
Joni Eareckson Tada and Nick Vijicic are two disabled people that God uses to do amazing works With. They are full of His power and love, yet neither one speaks in tongues, or does miracles .
Nick has seen miracles- blind healed, lame walk, etc...(through him and his staff praying ) in 3rd world countries where the people don't know Jesus.
They Still need an interpretation to communicate.
Did you receive my questions that I could better answer? That’s fine if you don’t. Most people are afraid to hear about the miracles that happen because they don’t understand that God is Willing and Wants Them Healed and it can happen immediately!
This is very troubling to me. Why are we questioning God's Word in the last 100 years and not before? Why was it generally accepted as the pure preserved Word as God promised. Now they say we no longer have it (the originals) and so it must be changed. Well no one has the originals. How dare anyone tamper with adding or taking away from this book? These modern books all come from the same polluted stream. Do your research please. Would you give your life for a modern version? For any Bible? Many died to have the words of God in English preserved and printed. God keeps His Word.
modern ? the Greek manuscripts are not modern.....
Well, if you're concerned about scribes changing God's word, you should be thankful that all the changes that they made over the centuries to the manuscripts that ended up being used to produce the critical editions from which the KJV was produced and, later, the Textus Receptus are now being scraped away so that we're now able to enjoy God's word in the purest form we've possessed it for close to two millenia.
They are not subtracting or adding but simply studying.
It is a result of free will
It is interesting that in a video which highlights the “questionability” surrounding what is written in certain scriptures, that the conclusion given @34:30-@36:00 is:
The reason we no longer have/need signs and wonders today is because we have the “authority” from the written word. 🔁 🤔
Great observation. As they undermine the authority of scripture...
"We scholars will figure this out and get back with you. Meantime, go try to find the words of God in all those translations you have. They are in there somewhere."
Re snakes/poison talk ?How does that square with 'Don't test God'.
Testing God would be *purposely* going out of your way to handle a snake or drink poison just to "prove" you can.
It's not putting God to the test to *survive* drinking or eating poison by accident or hadling a snake which jumps on you (as Paul does in Acts 28).
@@leenieledejo6849 I thankyou for your reply. Mrs. Dougherty's videos on YT are very informative and help me on my path.✝
Good stuff. More, please. Thank you.
My view on this is that I have faith that God's word has been preserved. I mean the fact that we know that some sections might not have been there originally is actually evidence of that isn't it?
You appear to be blending two different things. Either God fulfilled his many promises to preserve his words -- not word, but his very "words" -- or he is too weak, negligent, and (admit it:) unfaithful to do that, but bless his heart, God was rescued by modern scholars to salvage that part or parts that we have left.
@@warnerchandler9826 No like im just saying the concept is that whatever God decided we needed to have as the bible just is the bible. Like no matter what way it is. I would not be so arrogant as to say I can think of a better plan for that than God.
I disagree. I side with Chuck Missler’s analysis of the “oldest texts”.
Thank you for doing this!!
Ok, now have Andrew Bartlett or Dr. Phil Payne on to discuss 1 Cor. 14:34-35.
Great video! My only question is, what was Irenaeus referencing? Based on the stated process, this seems to be a much earlier reference to it being part of the book. In most scientific methodology, silence is not evidence (either way), which seems to be the crux of the argument from Dr. Bates.
Where he talks about the missing verse from luke regarding "but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God" he says it wasnt there in the oldest manuscript because in the newer manuscripts a scribe just copied from matthew to make it more authentic
However thats a problem because the thousands of copies of the textus receptus all have it and they were copied by different scribes.
Old doesnt mean good and old doesnt mean original either.
The codex sinaiticus is shown by many many scholars to be unreliable because of how many missing verses there are compared to the received texts .
So he is completely speculating and just making it up when he says a scribe chose to copy the verse from matthew to luke because rhere is absolutely no way to tell that
There are hardly any texts that back up the codex sinaiticus.
You can hear him making excuses to try and justify the shorter ending
- the application that theologians have made towards the records within the 4 gospels ,is that JESUS (the Mantle) was only approached and questioned once, as to that of the scribes and the Pharisees ,when actually, He was approached and questioned twice on a matter ,for example (once towards the scribes, and then once towards the Pharisees)
What happened to the new wall painting 😢
Faith and trust go beyond language , discernment is a gift , when a individual trusts in jesus christ the holy spirit will guide them in all truth amen but when a individual is realying on there own understanding ? ,the holy bible tells them not to do this they are still on milk , this is the truth , so many individuals don't know the difference or understand Gods will and free will, and when this happens they try to guide, the holy spirit will guide YOU and be with YOU amen this applies to all of us, all we are told to do is share the good news of the kingdom of heaven and salvation through jesus christ amen
Philip and Stephen were deacons and worked miracles.
I thought God warned not to add or subtract of any of his word. Makes me not want to read my Bible now. I’ll be giving it to the doctors office now I think. 😢
Totally agree. With your first sentence.
That second one, though. You know better than that. Do not even say it jokingly. Ps. 1: 1- 3.
- and that is the reason why the 4 gospels Seem contradictory at times.
What translation (version) do you recommend?
I mix it up. For general reading NIV or ESV. For reading with Bible study, an ESV, NASB and NIV all open to compare scriptures. There are a lot of great translations out there though. These are just the three that I gravitate towards.
@@MelissaDougherty thank you for your time and reply!
@@MelissaDoughertyQuestion: These three translations you gravitate towards, the ESV, NASB, and the NIV, they differ from each other, right?
Things that are different are not the same. So I posit that at least two of your translations are NOT the Bible, which of course is perfect and pure.
I agree wholeheartedly.
John 7:53 to 8:11 are also not in the eariest texts.
The purpose of the holy Bible the old testament is to reveal and lead individuals to God the new testament to reveal and lead individuals to jesus christ and salvation amen
Which translation would he say is the most conforming tithe originals ?
Is this a setup for a party game?
"Welcome to 'What Does the Scholar Say?"
Not saying the long version is is the correct version, but Jesus and John the Baptist identified the serpents and so did Moses:
Deuteronomy 32:32-33
For their vine is of the vine of Sodom
And of the fields of Gomorrah;
Their grapes are grapes of gall,
Their clusters are bitter.
33
Their *wine is the* *poison of serpents,*
And the cruel *venom* of *cobras*
How about the first part of 1st John 5:7.. Comparing King James version with any other version... (in this case, "not in earlier Manuscripts" means not even in the manuscript used to do most of KJV.. .was written in later )
On a light note, how is it I was thinking he didn't "look" British before he even opened his mouth?~Heather~
There is a very different look between those native to the UK and the US! I noticed that too.
I've noticed too though it's more pronounced in some versus others. As an American I think it's partly how they carry their face and use different facial muscles to produce a particular accent. Also the British have a "pout" 😂 fun stuff
This what Jesus said in matthew 24:4 .
You should look at the Geneva Bible
I'd say to him: I have to eat to live
Excellent dialogue
I think that could have been said in far fewer words.
Does or do you think deliverance ministries actually take away from the power of God? They absolutely focus on certain scriptures but somewhere there is something off with the interpretation of casting out demons!
Thanks
Jesus casts out demons. He told his disciples to do the same while he was still on earth. Then after he was risen and showed himself to them, he left them with this message to continue spreading the gospel to all the earth and casting out demons and healing the sick and speaking in new tongues and can get bit by snakes and or poisoned and it will not harm or kill them. We should be living this out now and most of the church hasn’t been discipled and given example on how to live this out. We need the infilling of the Holy Spirit and power. Book of acts.
The lady caught in adultery and the Law of God protected her. Go look up the book of Deuteronomy and read up on the punishment of a person caught in adultery.
Question why do we deny God uses signs and wonders to confirm His word? Jesus uses us.
Thomas Boys (1792-1880) was An Anglican Priest and Theologian. In 1832 he published The Suppressed Evidence, or Proofs of the Miraculous Faith and Experience of the Church of Christ in all ages, from authentic records of the Fathers, Waldenses, Hussites..,
So when are you gonna start healing people?
Where is God in all of this? If the long ending was scribal insertion, publish a Bible without it.
until you can perceive that scripture is about your imagination.. you cannot and will never understand!
I don't like mysteries.
May Frank come and seat upon your head?......You know........''Cherry in this yummy''? (Toutou....Touff)
What???
Understand the Bible by its Essence not the language , which is only a tool ,
Language brings no revelations but essence does, like for eg :
Jesus made & used a whip to overturn the TABLES in the temple, the tables of the leavens of the Pharisees (Jews) & Herod (Gentiles) The leavens of LAW/FAITH resp reveals the words of Jesus " Beware of the leavens of the Pharisees & Herod,
Now, said Jesus on the Cross " My God, My God why do you forsake me " immediately after which he said " Father unto thy hands I commend my Spirit " So what is its essense/revelation ? This is how the Church Fathers complied & understood the truth of the Bible The way of the Spirit ,, not phd's,
8:28 ohhhh I see. Fascinating. So essentially not all manuscripts may have a certain passage but pretty much all of the manuscripts have their own small differences because creating a hand written copy isn't always perfect. So it's just as possible that the idea is some manuscripts accidentally didn't copy that part but it was originally written in?
It's not part of the majority of texts, so that is doubtful
Boring
Melissa, where are you in ministry? Where are coming from doing ministry?
Allah ( Whom Christians call "the father" )says :
* O you who have believed, protect yourselves and your
families from a fire whose fuel is people and stones *
(Quran)
Allah is not the God and father of Lord Jesus..allah has no son.
As a Latter-day Saint, ya'll are at your best when you're making content like this (i.e. defending the historicity of the fundamental biblical stories), not when you're going after "cults" like my faith. You're REALLY bad at the latter. Keep it up with the former.
I agree that this is great content but disagree with you saying she's gone after LDS. She simply has brought up valid concerns about that group. Now Matt Parker and Trey Stone have gone after LDS and mocked them. Totally different than what Melissa does with respectfully disagreeing with specifics.
@@josephbovio3447 I've watched her content on my faith. It's a bad version of Mike Winger's content. And Mike's content is already bad enough.
God Almighty says :
*The example of Jesus before God is like that of Adam.
He created him from dust, then said to him, “Be,” and he was *
(Quran)
The real witnesses are those who lived during the time of Jesus.
As for the witnesses you named, they did not meet him, because they wrote
the Gospels 300 years or more later, so how can they be eyewitnesses?
So how do you explain the existence of Gospel manuscripts going to as early as 125AD and other documents quoting from them going back even earlier - possibly as early as 50AD?
@@Berean_with_a_BTh
Christians do not have any documents that prove that it dates
back to 50 AD, but rather 500 AD.