@@doccyber Setting prices to what they want is not a criminal act. If it were, eveey retailer on the planet would be a crook. MSRP is just a suggested price.
First new car I owned was an 86 Cavalier Z24 with their infamous 2.8 V6. For the time it was pretty quick and relatively inexpensive. The ‘digital speedo’ was a disaster however.
Lol...I had a new 1989 Z24 and loved the hell outta that thing. I put somewhere around 150K miles on it in about five years with very few issues. It was in mint condition when I sold it to a neighbor kid who wrecked it within two weeks of buying it...😥
I wanted to buy a Civic Si but the mark ups were insane at up to $10k over sticker. Got a new WRX at sticker for $34k. Wanted to save money but might as well get a car that’s better in almost every way other than gas mileage. You’re not gonna get a Civic Si for $28k.
I think the best 11th gen Civic is the Sport Touring Hatchback with the 6 speed manual. That is arguably just as enthusiast-oriented as the Si. You get all the features you are missing on the Si, a nicer ride, and 90% of the handling.
I agree the Sport Touring is probably the better buy this time around..I'm not big on leather seats but everything else is top notch. It's a much smoother and quieter ride than the Si that's for sure.
Completely agree. The ride is just so much better in the Sport Touring for a daily than the Si. Love that they now offer the boost blue with the manual...yaaay, now if I can only find one).
Currently driving my brother's old 2000 DX Civic hatch, manual of course. There is a little bit of magic in this car that I'm sensing the new one still has. Those other options may be more sensible or superior on paper, but check back in 20 years on which one is a classic.
I had Hondas (and an Acura) for 18 straight years, until 2011. You're right, there really is something intangible about them that makes them an enthusiast choice. They are just so...honed. I loved the old-school revvy engines, once a Honda specialty. Today they may not have that special engine thing happening, but it seems they held on to the other Honda intangibles. But now Hyundai/Kia have come along and they are feeling a heck of a lot like the 2022 equivalent of a 1995 Honda. A Civic Touring might be ultimately better than my Kia Forte GT/GT2, but is it $3k better?
@@Gerisheng Hey that's interesting to hear about the Forte; I honestly haven't been paying much attention to new vehicle offerings except EVs for a while. That does sound like a fun vehicle and good value. I'd probably be tempted by the Si based upon aethetics, but would have to actually experience them both to know.
Yeah… The red seats, a lack of options like heated seats, etc. will send buyers elsewhere. My guess is that the Elantra N-Line, GTI, 3 turbo etc. will sell better. Me… I have to see the Integra as I want a hatch with a sunroof, heated seats and lumbar support or I too will be looking at the GTI or the CX-30 turbo. I considered a Civic hatch Touring, but the CVT is a turn-off and living in a snowy area I do prefer an AWD or at least an LSD.
I still think the Integra should have the 2.0t engine from the Accord Sport, not the 1.5 engine from the Civic Si. That might have justified the over $30k starting price. And then make the 6 speed manual standard, the 10 speed auto optional.
@@damilolaakanni The Integra gets the same 1.5 turbo as is in this car, and the same CVT or 6-speed option (in the higher trim). Those are enough for me. You may just do better with the Civic R. I live in a huge city, so have no need for power over 250hp. I do want good fuel economy though. 210-230 would be ideal for me. I really just want an AWD or LSD. If the Civic Touring had that, I would just get it, even though it has less power.
@@damilolaakanni would that 2.0T even fit in this setup? The Accord is substantially bigger. If it does fit, it would have been a decent move for the Integra but I think people are upset about the new Integra incorrectly...it is basically 4-5k more than this car for a whole lot more features and creature comforts...I would get the Integra over this as that value proposition is better IMO. Maybe they can do the 2.0T as TypeS motor in the Integra lineup? It would be better if they could get the Type S motor from TSX into this but I doubt it fits either. I don't see them doing the TypeR for the Integra since Acura didn't even try to do it with the NSX which would have been a good halo product...that saddens me tbh...I would be interested interested in a more mature TypeR...I am well past my boy racer days but still appreciate the civicTR as a machine...
@@afcgeo882 I get your point, but do you really need to go to a higher trim to get the manual transmission? It's unconventional. Other brands either have the manual as the base transmission and the automatic as an option, or they don't offer a manual transmission at all. I feel that the only reason the manual exists in the Integra is so that there'll be a "sporty" version that will slot in between the regular Integra which will be the entry level luxury car and the Type S which will be their high performance model.
The way they decontented the SI and raised the price leaves me cold. Less hp, no heated seats, and no adaptive suspension is a huge miss. The new SI rides so harshly and isn't faster than the normal Civic. For $4k more (generally less given the way Honda dealers markup the SI) Id get the Elantra N which is significantly better in every way and a bargin. My advice is get the Sport hatch Civic for $25k or get the Elantra N for $32k. The Civic is a great car, but the SI trim males no sense to me.
Do you think they don’t mark up the Elantra N? LOL. Also, the new Si doesn’t make less power than the 2020. In fact it makes more horsepower, but less torque. After driving both, the 2022 is better in every way.
@@SIIKAP1 the Elantra N does get some mark ups but I’ve seen some offered at msrp as well. The ones marking them up are max $5k around me. The civic Si can’t be found around me for less than $40k out the door. It is nowhere close to a $40k car but people are paying it so dealers keep doing it.
@@John-vh1fk I got my si for a 3k markup, which is pretty standard across all new cars rn. The same dealer wouldn't let a very base level accord go for under 30, so the si made sense. You just gotta search, but with decent negotiation and the right dealer u can dodge the heavy markups.
I had a two door ‘09 Si since new for about four years. It remains my favorite car to this day and I’ve had some nice cars, nothing crazy, but definitely cars worth having that are also well regarded. The current generation Si seems to answer many things I wished were different in my ‘09 Si, particularly aesthetic qualities. My ‘09 was comfortable, smooth, and just so much more fun than I would have ever expected. The current model has shortcomings, sure, as Honda is trying to squeeze the Acura Integra into the mix within a fairly narrow price point. Having the opportunity to buy the Si, I bet I’d still grin from ear to ear and would possibly replace my revered ‘09. Keep in mind that I’m fairly simple and easy to please. In 2018 i test drove a Mk7 GTI and thought that was amazingly fast. I ended up buying an Odyssey because I just had to get something way more family oriented. I’m holding out for a Miata or 86 for my next car and I believe I’ll be able to keep the Odyssey and the fun car within my stable so I can handle whatever situation. If I had yo compromise and find a car that could arguably tackle both jobs reasonably well, I’d start with the new Si and go up to the Integra and Elantra N. Given the proximity in pricing and my belief that this car is a “moment in time” kind of car opportunity, I’d likely go with the Elantra N. I haven’t driven one of them, but they appeal to me in almost every sense. I’m thankful that we have these options and can argue about them instead of facing the prospect of having to sorbs even greater sums of money for something fun.
I was quoted 37,500 out the door for a SI recently. I checked for the heck of it, INSANE to pay that for a 200HP car. 5k Markup, no thanks. This car should be 25k not even 28k
Last gen 2020 was $25,100 I think. Naturally this should be a little more. Maybe $25,700. Yeah, it’s overpriced. But so is everything right now. Milk has went up 80%, gas almost 200%, eggs 150%, etc.
Not in 2023. $28k is a decent price. Inflation is pushing everything up. I can see why the MSRP would be 20% up on pre covid. If your pay isn’t keeping up fight harder or move job.
Alex, ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ON THE MONEY, my thoughts exactly, again! I totally agree in every way...I had '86 CRX Si (sliding panel roof). Next I bought a brand new '87 Civic Si which had the Pop Top & Removable Glass Panel Roof (exactly as you had pictured). Loved the trip down memory lane...when Si meant they had Fuel Injection which used to be a big deal! Next, I bought a new '89 Civic Si, as they skipped the Si in 1988, but the '89 finally got the sliding power Glass Moon Roof. Anyway perhaps I'm an old fart (I am at 53). 😉 As I love to shift too...but now I would like a Dual Clutch and a selectable adaptive suspension for day in and day out driving. Guess that's where the New Integra enters (just they still only have the CVT instead of a dual clutch). The Regular Civic is a great vehicle...and again you are right on the money with your summary...the Si really has just been the Civic with the "knob turned up". Perfect description!!! Thanks again for all you do...I tell everyone I know about your channel...just LOVE it!
From one old fart to another (54), hello to another former ‘89 Si owner. I’m enjoying this 2022. The days of the old school early gen Si models are long gone, but given our choices I’m well pleased with this purchase. Hyundai didn’t strike me as engaging with the veloster n and I didn’t even look at the gti (reliability and talk of it being fast but boring and having a poor shifter quality made me disinclined to even drive it. If I didn’t have to wait probably another 6months to a year to find a reasonable brz, I would have probably replaced my 2017 with the better motor in the new one, but enjoying the added utility and my field hockey playing daughter can drive her goalie bag to practice in another 18 months so maybe I’m back to the brz in 3 years . The choices for engaging light cars with a manual (still a requirement for me) are not plentiful. Especially if you want quality and good shifter feel. Honda has ordinarily been better than it’s spec sheet and this one is no exception
@@stms4411 Very nice, I totally agree...and always nice to know there are other folks who also notice the lil' details. The Honda Manual really has always been like butter for me. I had friends that had GTIs, where like you said they had reliability issues...and I had a hard time going through the gears on the "Old" GTI's (I guess I should clarify those were older). But it seems time does not change...with VW reliability (at least when I look at those dark circles in the yearly Consumer Reports. My last Honda/Acura 6-Speed Manual was in an 2014 Acura ILX w/the 2.4L DOHC w/VTEC...and my daughters grew up sharing an '88 Honda Accord "The Kid Car" with a 5-Speed Manual (all the kids learned on the manual). But man that lil' ILX was a kick with its 7,000 RPM Red Line...just long term it was a lil' too small to be my daily driver with my 6'-4" (and too big around frame) ha ha 😇 Blessings to you!
I just learned you can put in aftermarket rear air vents and USB ports. So this mitigates the lack thereof in the SI, but it's still frustrating that the Canadians got such a great SI standard where the US version is so lacking. Why??
They are selling all of them and many at a premium. Tells you Honda knows what they’re doing. Another poster got a wrx at list - why? Demand for that car is lower.
I just sold my 09 Civic Si orange pearl and I looked at getting the new Si. Here are my pro's for the new Si, Looks great inside and out, has a fantastic shifter, and rev match. Cons the cost $27k? Less content no adaptive dampers or heated seats? I have also driven a 2019 Civic Type R and I will be test driving the. 23 type once it comes out. I suspect the type r might end up in my garage and not the Si. Great review!!!
@@markmiller3279 How can Honda justify charging more for less power, a cheaper suspension, no heated seats, if anything the price should have stayed the same or cost less. Even with inflation taken into account.
@@CruiseControl1 1) it’s not actually less power. Do your homework. 2) Suspension is amazing in this car. F your dampers. They just make things more expensive when you need repairs. 3) The seats are cloth and don’t get cold. Never had an issue with them in the cold days. Wanna know why everything costs more? Inflation and a crippled economy thanks to terrible world leaders and greedy corporations.
@@CruiseControl1 Right. It should cost $25,700 or so. Elantra’s are cheap because it’s Hyundai. They cut corners and don’t have the best standing in the automotive world. They HAVE to charge less than competitors, or no one would buy them (aside from the Elantra N)
$8k in 1985 would be $20k in 2021. The Gen 10 Civic cost 23.8k. I dont understand how Honda justifies $27.3k for this Gen 11 Si. It doesn't have dual zone climate control, heated seats, fog lights that the gen 10 had. Gen 10s instrument cluster was nicer IMO. It had a oil temperature gauge that gen 11 doesn't have That being said. You are right, it is not a budget Type R but despite all its flaws...it still is a nice car
Tint your windows. it’s not a problem. I grew up my entire childhood without rear vents, just put the front vents on higher fan speed to even out the cabin.
@@GROGU123 "Tint your windows [...] I grew up my entire childhood without rear vents" -- Sorry, I did not know this was a comedy show. No, I will not be fixing Honda's cheapness by tinting windows and running front vents full blast. There are plenty of fish in the sea.
@@f181234 "Lots of cars don’t have rear vents in this class" -- I can see Honda smiling right now. With your mentality, manufacturers will cut cut cut, and customers will say, "hey, that's okay, the other car doesn't have it either".
I've had a Forte GT with the GT2 package for a couple of months now. The Kia is **astonishingly** well-equipped for $27K fully loaded. Yes, there is more road noise, the touring tires suck, and I wish it was a hatchback, but that's about it. The DCT works just fine. It's my first DCT, and I don't mind the way it behaves in daily driving at all. I traded a '19 Mazda CX-5 GT Reserve (now called "Turbo"), and I don't miss it at all. In my humble opinion, Kia really hit one out of the park with the Forte GT/GT2, and it's simply the best compact car you can get for $27K. I'm guessing that the Civic is ultimately better, but it's also more expensive while being less well-equipped. I'm totally happy.
Something I have wanted to see Honda do is make a derated (1.8l) version of the Accord’s K20 turbo. That should deliver around 230 Horsepower. I think it would make a much better Si engine than the slight tune-up of the L15 we have now. That could also be used as an upmarket engine for the CR-V and a base engine for an imaginary Accord-based CUV that Honda should have developed and sold years ago.
Personally Honda going CVT on these as the auto option was a huge miss. I know the manual is more "fun" but for daily use a DCT was a much better compromise
@@iamthedutchbro the hate for CVTs is overblown because of Nissan. If they had made reliable CVTs in the 2000's when they introduced them to the mainstream automotive market, the hatred wouldn't have been this bad. They seem to have figured it out, but sadly the damage has been done, the reputation can't be shaken off.
I drove a 1.5T Honda CRV and a brand new Nissan Rogue CVT for at least a week each as rental cars. Let’s just say I will never own a CVT. My current 2 cars are a Hyundai DCT and a K20 Civic Si with a manual. Both drive awesome!!! CVT’s are aweful.
@@markmiller3279 You are correct, but the Si is not a car that the average person buys. It's "Sport Injected." which is why it's been a manual only transmission car for the longest time.
The Civic SI refresh is a little boring, but I can really appreciate the small improvements Honda did this time around. Like toning down rev-hang, improving ergonomics and smoothing the torque curve. I hope they fixed the oil burning issues from last gen. But removing some features like dual zone climate control or adaptive dampers really sucks for the consumer. Shame I can’t find one for MSRP right now. Honda dealers near me either don’t have an SI, are not willing to allocate an SI, or are charging a 3-10k markup on it. At that point, I may as well buy the new Integra.
I considered Civic Si, but there is basically none available around for the last couple of months. But the more reviews I watch, the less appealing it is. I probably will hunt for Elantra N for MSRP or get N-Line
You won’t find an Elantra N anywhere near MSRP. They are very rare. Right now for example there’s only 1 available in AZ. One. That’s crazy. None are due in Southern AZ for at least 90 days. Also crazy. When they do come in they’re $4-5K over MSRP + dealer add-ons. Did I mention crazy?
@@desertdriver7056 Yes, they are very rare. BUT! There is one dealer nearby that sells $3K over MSRP and I have some hopes to negotiate and there are 2 dealers that are more evasive and they say "somewhat above MSRP". I'm not in a rush, so wish me luck :-) But yes, especially get manual - it's extremely hard
@@SIIKAP1 they are positive and this is definitely a great car. It's just that it's just a combination of the fact the Si is not hot enough, compared to a regular Civic and doesn't have all the amenities/features that I want from daily driver. It could work, if there was no competition, but competition is tough here, as Alex mentioned. And I agree it's absolutely a matter of a personal preference.
The 1.5 has serious issues with blown head gaskets, and rod bolts that are weak and allow the head to become loose also. These issues are happening around 50.000 miles and up. Warranty is over, owner must pay for repairs. Just Google 1.5 engine head gasket failures.
Just got the pearl white, added the heated seats, black emblems and the led door edge guards. Paid msrp but took about 5 months to get. Really nice everyday driver and fun to drive. I know its not a race car but I really enjoy it. Imo it looks way better in person to me. Also wanted to add that my wife had a 22 sport with the 2.0 n.a engine. To me it feels night and day driving them, but thats just my opinion. Great video btw👍
What was your msrp on the si ? What is the difference between the 2.0 your wife drives to the si? Whats your favorite? And whats price difference? Thank you for your answers upfront.
For the price/power, seems like you're better off getting a WRX. I used to own a 2009 Si Coupe (197hp), and that was a fun car to drive. I always hope that with each new generation, they'll put more power in this thing, but it seems like it always sits around that 200hp range. For the price they're charging, I'd like to see something around 230-250hp.
I guess they kept the power at 200HP because the Integra is supposed to have more power, but we don't know how much power the Integra has yet. All that Honda/Acura has said about the engine is that it's the same one from the Civic Si.
I was very disappointed when the new Si turned up with this weak engine. The Accord's 2.0T would have been the ideal fit to keep the Si competitive with the GTI and N models. And yes, they also stripped out too many features. Bottom line: Honda blew it.
Makes no sense from Hondas perspective. If they put the accord 2 liter in this, it would fetch 35,000 or more……cannibalizes the CTR’s sales. Have you driven one? It’s quick enough to have fun. It competes with the N models and GTI by having a ton more quality, reliability and being more light on its feet.
@@gerards.5514 don’t get me wrong though…..I’d pay $35k if it had the 2 liter. My problem is that I prefer understated cars, that have sporting proclivities, great shift linkages and are light and nimble….but also are dynamic and engaging. Aren’t a lot of cars built to that spec these days. My old brz was really good (and a tune slayed a bit of the midrange problem), but I wasn’t patient enough to wait for availability with its successor (and sometimes it fell short on utility). The Si checks a lot of boxes for me, but it’s not my only car as well. My boxster scratches the sports car itch, so I don’t need the Si to paste me to the seat back. Even so, it provides enough grunt to be enjoyable. Reminds me of the essential goodness of my old e46 330i. Different character but a dose of sporting nature to it.
I got my si just about 2 weeks ago and so far I've been happy with it. I test drove an elantra n line with the 6 speed and I was very impressed, I just didn't like the look. The si is way sharper and (besides the heated seats, which pisses me off every time I get in the car), the interior is much nicer. Honestly, I think it's quick enough. Behind the wheel its faster than average traffic. 40-70 mph is underwhelming, but I'm very happy with how it launches to 30 and it is much faster than I expected it to be at highway speeds. Hondata has dyno'd multiple 2022 si's and they're all about 220 hp, which is believable really. My buddy has a new civic sport with the 1.5t and cvt, my si is much quicker. Handling is superb as well, and the 6 speed is by far the best manual I've experienced in a FWD car. I dunno, I really think it should have the full digital dash and heated seats, but other than that I have nothing to complain about. It has some nice stuff too, like the bose audio which sounds really good actually. Average 33 mpg so far, overall very happy with my decision.
@@chrisdaxer3984 appreciate the thoughtful impressions, thanks. I have to say, though I bought a two year old 2017 brz three years ago and sold it to get the Si…..it had heated seats and I maybe used them 10 times. I grew up in Ct and live in Pa so I have real winters but I don’t see a heated seats as a big plus with cloth or alcantara seats. I found it difficult to source my 2013 boxster so I was thrilled to find an S w a manual in my ideal color combo and desired price range about 15 months ago, so I don’t complain about particular spec. I do miss the lack of heated seats in that, but since it’s sees limited winter drive time, it’s not a huge sacrifice. I also don’t really care about the 1/2 digital display. I’d be quite fine if it were all analog, because I love the old school simplicity of the dials and the no-nonsense design. I keep it on the no content setting inside the tach (if I want info, I use the screen. To each his own, but I think this Si delivers on the promise. I think Honda misses the mark when they have fake vents and computer port shaped exhaust pipes…..no thanks. I didn’t like that gimmickry even when I was a kid. Perhaps it’s an advantage being an old guy…..most of my cars were low tech and I don’t bemoan the lack of specific features. I owned an 89 Si with NO power assist steering. With a blistering 100hp and 108 ft-lbs of torque, it was more fun - not less - than this 2022 model. As you say, this one is powerful enough. Enjoy it!
Hopefully this will be my car when I graduate college in a couple of months! I love my 17 corolla but as a car guy it is kinda boring. Im hoping the mark ups will have gone down by then.
This is a great car inside and out. Unfortunately the high interest rates place this car close to 40,000 Canadian. I do wish it was just a bit better. The 1.5l is not my favorite. My perfect si would be 220 to 240hp and 230 to 240 pound feet of torque. Also, there should be a DCT. Acura had an 8 speed dct, so you know they could make a great one for the si
@@janoycresnova9156 nah Hondas fine. If anything it’s Toyota who’s been lazy Because Honda consistently outclasses Toyota in just about every single comparison test in just about every category. Compact to midsize to cuv to 3 row suv to midsize suv to hybrids. If they were lazy they wouldn’t be segment benchmarks or the standard by which everything mainstream is measured against
I don't know how you can miss a lack of a LSD on Forte GT when you could go so detailed and bashing (almost) the Si. Or for that matter Civic sport touring which is a relatively more sticker price if not too much. Almost want to appreciate the analysis but falls a little short.
Strongly disagree with having a dual clutch transmission. You talk of practicality, but those transmissions have the highest maintenance costs and most frequent maintenance intervals while manual transmissions are the opposite, as long as you don't have some amateur burning the clutch out of ignorance. My last Honda, a 1993 Accord Wagon, I bought at 125k miles and sold at 235k miles with original clutch. I did change the transmission oil at about 200k for $25 around 2014. Sold in 2015.
I was thinking something along these lines as well when he was talking about the dry-clutch DCT in the Elantra N-Line and Forte GT. I own a 2019 Elantra Sport with the dry-clutch DCT and while what he says about usability and smoothness are all correct, I have been disappointed with how the feel of the DCT has changed substantially over time, resulting in substantially laggier and less smooth shifts. I'm counting on the DCT clutch needing to be replaced before the warranty expires so it freshens up, because it is going to cost a couple thousand dollars to replace the DCT clutch. If I'm not able to get the DCT clutch replaced before the end of the warranty, that may be what makes me decide to sell the car.
DCTs are much, much more practical than manuals. They are also more expensive. Those are not conflicting statements. Locking someone out of ever comfortably driving your car because they've got a bad wrist is limiting yourself, and the only explanations are not wanting to spend on R&D, and gatekeeping.
@@cpMetis Good point "locking someone out" of driving my car. Manuals get stolen less. I can see automatics for the injured. Mostly I see cars that are automatic only when only recently they had a manual option, and those are often at the lowest trim levels. Americans have a particularly low number of manuals and I see that as either lazy or ignorant vs Europeans. Luxury with a stick, fine with me.
I just love when automakers cheap out the rear door panels as a cost saving. And air vents for rear seat passengers should be on all cars. This type of cost cutting is just stupid and detracts from the perceived quality of the vehicle. Agree with Alex on the need for DCT. All the decontenting on this car was simply to create space between it and the upcoming Integra.
anyone have tips on navigating the current market? my wife's car was hit at red light and totaled so now we have to get her a new one. what's the strategy on getting a new vehicle (lease works too) without paying a ton over MSRP? also, if it is easier to point me to any specific resources that also helps! Thanks!
Some dealerships aren't charging extra, but they usually have long waits and it sounds like you can't do that. The other strategy is to simply buy a model that isn't selling very well. That usually means one that was introduced a while ago. There are some good ones, like the Mazda3, which has sold very badly, but is a nice car. The regular Elantra hasn't done well, either, and it's perfectly OK. There are a bunch more , but you need to see what the dealers around you are marking up, and what they aren't.
Reviewers have noted that the new Civic has Audi like traits but I don’t see it. Is it in the build quality? The NVH? The way the door sounds when it closes? Ultimately this generation seems bland and the Si version is unlikely to expand its market share even within the hot hatch niche
The 2017 civic si was 23,900 the current is 28,000 but what the hell have they added it’s lacking fog lights adaptive dampers heated seats etc this car is a joke
One thing I hear all the time "why buy the Integra when you can get a Civic for less?" I might be able to answer it when I get a chance to drive them, but until then, what do you all think?
It's a hatchback with this engine, looks good, has lots of extras either standard or optional, and has more brand prestige (slightly). It's a nice alternative to the Civic.
Only the civic Si can go thru 3 generations and still only offer about 200hp and no one complains 🤷 you would think it should be around at least 230hp by now
Chevy Cavalier was a terrible car -- sales were from marketing and the use of "badge engineering" to see the same car as a Buick, Olds and even Cadillac. All were awful cars. Disappointed in the incandescent rear lights, no heated seats (??) and no lumbar support (??). No rear air vents and no rear USB ports. What point is there in "cheaping out" to keep costs down by removing details that a large segment of the target market might want. Also removed the dual suspension mode. Not Good. On the plus side, Hondas have excellent manual shifters. Still fun to drive. (I like the thought of adding summer tires to a "regular" Civic as an alternative.)
No point in addressing it when all dealers are doing it to desirable new models, and it is likely only temporary. He's making videos that will still be useful in a year.
MEH…….U.S. getting less standard options…THANKS HONDA! Call me when it gets 25-30 more H.P.'s This thing becoming a boat at 184 inches? What happened to Honda's smaller more nimble cars? There are none to be found anymore.
You make an excellent point. At 192 inches a Camry V6 has 100 more HP. To my way of thinking the Camry is a better buy considering the supposed extra mark ups by Honda dealers.
@@f181234 You're 100% correct but in my simple mind both cars are 4 door front wheel drive cars that are almost sporty and similar in price. I don't slice "competing segments" as thinly as some ppl.
That essay that you're testing with the 1.5 l it would be a no goodbye for most people that has the turbo that I guess is too strong for the engine and you have gas leaking into the oil Plus in Canada they do come with heated seats fog lights and and heated outside mirrors I don't know why they can't come to America like that I would say that's a no-go you better off buying something else thank you Alex
The forte GT is similarly priced as this. It comes with a ton of amenities and an Automatic option. I am curious if the Si just has a better quality or has a better suspension that causes it to undercut the competition, even though it's limited in performance and features.
I've had the last 2 versions of the Si. The biggest advantage is quality and more than that, reliability. Honda has all their versions of the Si separately priced all the way from the base Civic to the Type-R. The only reason Honda deleted some features(dual zone climate, fog lights, etc) is because they want to promote their new Acura Integra..which is finally the Si HATCH that many people wanted but it's gonna be expensive. I will admit the Mazda 3 hatch is smoother and quieter than the Si.
the SI is becoming an afterthought, built to a price point to be slotted between the type r and the regular civic. for the extra cost, youre only getting a slight performance bump while you get a decontented interior. gone are the days where the SI was the top trim. Now, its like a mid-level trim with some performance upgrades. not the top trim with the performance upgrades. oh nevermind, the nice SI is still around, its just called the integra now.
Kia Forte. Wish they brought the hatchback!! The hatchback was like an Audi! Will have to get one from Canada when changing from my Volvo V50. Naaa... Will just buy another Volvo V50 turbo. New cars are ridiculous.
I so agree. I was annoyed when Hyundai cancelled the Elantra GT (i30) in the US, right when other makes were finally offering some decent hatchbacks. The Forte hatchback in GT form would be very appealing.
there are way too many options missing for the price. also most dealerships have 5-10k markups which is a joke for what you get.
Exactly, it is way behind the times. No longer a good value.
The mark up practice should be criminalized. I will refuse to pay a penny above.
@@doccyber Setting prices to what they want is not a criminal act. If it were, eveey retailer on the planet would be a crook. MSRP is just a suggested price.
One dealership is charging 11k lol a civic si. I was leaving and the manager said “we can remove 2k but not more” 😂
@@Iegend17 Tgats crazy. That puts it in the Audi A3 price category. And guess what, Audi dealers are not charging insane mark ups.
Cost isn't the reason for the elimination of the 10th gen Si amenities, including the adaptive dampers. The reason is simply 2 words:
Acura Integra
Another way of saying the same thing...
@@jayhiggins5239 no. They could offer all those on the Si for the same price it is now if integra wasn’t just launched. It’s not saying the same thing
Also the Honda civic Sport Touring.
First new car I owned was an 86 Cavalier Z24 with their infamous 2.8 V6. For the time it was pretty quick and relatively inexpensive. The ‘digital speedo’ was a disaster however.
Lol...I had a new 1989 Z24 and loved the hell outta that thing. I put somewhere around 150K miles on it in about five years with very few issues. It was in mint condition when I sold it to a neighbor kid who wrecked it within two weeks of buying it...😥
I wanted to buy a Civic Si but the mark ups were insane at up to $10k over sticker. Got a new WRX at sticker for $34k. Wanted to save money but might as well get a car that’s better in almost every way other than gas mileage. You’re not gonna get a Civic Si for $28k.
It’s pretty sad that now even the SIs are getting mark ups. When i got my 2014 SI markups was not even in the equation.
Did you look at GTI/GLI?
Edumunds or somn said it was around 3K over sticker on avg. But its competitors are marked up too..
34k for a wrx now? Lol damn. Remember when the sti were 34k
@@JJ-vs3gz inflation babyyyy
I think the best 11th gen Civic is the Sport Touring Hatchback with the 6 speed manual. That is arguably just as enthusiast-oriented as the Si. You get all the features you are missing on the Si, a nicer ride, and 90% of the handling.
I agree the Sport Touring is probably the better buy this time around..I'm not big on leather seats but everything else is top notch. It's a much smoother and quieter ride than the Si that's for sure.
Completely agree. The ride is just so much better in the Sport Touring for a daily than the Si. Love that they now offer the boost blue with the manual...yaaay, now if I can only find one).
The engine is not the same. Same series but different turbo and rods. The SI is an enthusiast daily driver.
Currently driving my brother's old 2000 DX Civic hatch, manual of course. There is a little bit of magic in this car that I'm sensing the new one still has. Those other options may be more sensible or superior on paper, but check back in 20 years on which one is a classic.
I had Hondas (and an Acura) for 18 straight years, until 2011. You're right, there really is something intangible about them that makes them an enthusiast choice. They are just so...honed. I loved the old-school revvy engines, once a Honda specialty. Today they may not have that special engine thing happening, but it seems they held on to the other Honda intangibles. But now Hyundai/Kia have come along and they are feeling a heck of a lot like the 2022 equivalent of a 1995 Honda. A Civic Touring might be ultimately better than my Kia Forte GT/GT2, but is it $3k better?
@@Gerisheng Hey that's interesting to hear about the Forte; I honestly haven't been paying much attention to new vehicle offerings except EVs for a while. That does sound like a fun vehicle and good value. I'd probably be tempted by the Si based upon aethetics, but would have to actually experience them both to know.
Yeah… The red seats, a lack of options like heated seats, etc. will send buyers elsewhere. My guess is that the Elantra N-Line, GTI, 3 turbo etc. will sell better.
Me… I have to see the Integra as I want a hatch with a sunroof, heated seats and lumbar support or I too will be looking at the GTI or the CX-30 turbo. I considered a Civic hatch Touring, but the CVT is a turn-off and living in a snowy area I do prefer an AWD or at least an LSD.
I still think the Integra should have the 2.0t engine from the Accord Sport, not the 1.5 engine from the Civic Si. That might have justified the over $30k starting price. And then make the 6 speed manual standard, the 10 speed auto optional.
@@damilolaakanni The Integra gets the same 1.5 turbo as is in this car, and the same CVT or 6-speed option (in the higher trim). Those are enough for me. You may just do better with the Civic R. I live in a huge city, so have no need for power over 250hp. I do want good fuel economy though. 210-230 would be ideal for me. I really just want an AWD or LSD. If the Civic Touring had that, I would just get it, even though it has less power.
@@damilolaakanni would that 2.0T even fit in this setup? The Accord is substantially bigger.
If it does fit, it would have been a decent move for the Integra but I think people are upset about the new Integra incorrectly...it is basically 4-5k more than this car for a whole lot more features and creature comforts...I would get the Integra over this as that value proposition is better IMO.
Maybe they can do the 2.0T as TypeS motor in the Integra lineup? It would be better if they could get the Type S motor from TSX into this but I doubt it fits either.
I don't see them doing the TypeR for the Integra since Acura didn't even try to do it with the NSX which would have been a good halo product...that saddens me tbh...I would be interested interested in a more mature TypeR...I am well past my boy racer days but still appreciate the civicTR as a machine...
@@afcgeo882 I get your point, but do you really need to go to a higher trim to get the manual transmission? It's unconventional. Other brands either have the manual as the base transmission and the automatic as an option, or they don't offer a manual transmission at all. I feel that the only reason the manual exists in the Integra is so that there'll be a "sporty" version that will slot in between the regular Integra which will be the entry level luxury car and the Type S which will be their high performance model.
@@triaxe-mmb I hope they'll use that engine for the Type S, because I doubt the 3.0 turbo V6 in the TLX and MDX type S will fit in the Integra.
Thanks for being thorough and telling it as it is rather than over-hyping it (like the other TH-camrs) ...
The way they decontented the SI and raised the price leaves me cold. Less hp, no heated seats, and no adaptive suspension is a huge miss. The new SI rides so harshly and isn't faster than the normal Civic. For $4k more (generally less given the way Honda dealers markup the SI) Id get the Elantra N which is significantly better in every way and a bargin. My advice is get the Sport hatch Civic for $25k or get the Elantra N for $32k. The Civic is a great car, but the SI trim males no sense to me.
Do you think they don’t mark up the Elantra N? LOL. Also, the new Si doesn’t make less power than the 2020. In fact it makes more horsepower, but less torque. After driving both, the 2022 is better in every way.
@@SIIKAP1 the Elantra N does get some mark ups but I’ve seen some offered at msrp as well. The ones marking them up are max $5k around me. The civic Si can’t be found around me for less than $40k out the door. It is nowhere close to a $40k car but people are paying it so dealers keep doing it.
@@John-vh1fk I got my si for a 3k markup, which is pretty standard across all new cars rn. The same dealer wouldn't let a very base level accord go for under 30, so the si made sense. You just gotta search, but with decent negotiation and the right dealer u can dodge the heavy markups.
I had a two door ‘09 Si since new for about four years. It remains my favorite car to this day and I’ve had some nice cars, nothing crazy, but definitely cars worth having that are also well regarded. The current generation Si seems to answer many things I wished were different in my ‘09 Si, particularly aesthetic qualities. My ‘09 was comfortable, smooth, and just so much more fun than I would have ever expected. The current model has shortcomings, sure, as Honda is trying to squeeze the Acura Integra into the mix within a fairly narrow price point. Having the opportunity to buy the Si, I bet I’d still grin from ear to ear and would possibly replace my revered ‘09. Keep in mind that I’m fairly simple and easy to please. In 2018 i test drove a Mk7 GTI and thought that was amazingly fast. I ended up buying an Odyssey because I just had to get something way more family oriented. I’m holding out for a Miata or 86 for my next car and I believe I’ll be able to keep the Odyssey and the fun car within my stable so I can handle whatever situation. If I had yo compromise and find a car that could arguably tackle both jobs reasonably well, I’d start with the new Si and go up to the Integra and Elantra N. Given the proximity in pricing and my belief that this car is a “moment in time” kind of car opportunity, I’d likely go with the Elantra N. I haven’t driven one of them, but they appeal to me in almost every sense. I’m thankful that we have these options and can argue about them instead of facing the prospect of having to sorbs even greater sums of money for something fun.
I was quoted 37,500 out the door for a SI recently. I checked for the heck of it, INSANE to pay that for a 200HP car. 5k Markup, no thanks. This car should be 25k not even 28k
Last gen 2020 was $25,100 I think. Naturally this should be a little more. Maybe $25,700. Yeah, it’s overpriced. But so is everything right now. Milk has went up 80%, gas almost 200%, eggs 150%, etc.
If it were equipped like the Canadian model…oh but it’s not.
Not in 2023. $28k is a decent price. Inflation is pushing everything up. I can see why the MSRP would be 20% up on pre covid. If your pay isn’t keeping up fight harder or move job.
Alex, ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ON THE MONEY, my thoughts exactly, again! I totally agree in every way...I had '86 CRX Si (sliding panel roof). Next I bought a brand new '87 Civic Si which had the Pop Top & Removable Glass Panel Roof (exactly as you had pictured). Loved the trip down memory lane...when Si meant they had Fuel Injection which used to be a big deal! Next, I bought a new '89 Civic Si, as they skipped the Si in 1988, but the '89 finally got the sliding power Glass Moon Roof. Anyway perhaps I'm an old fart (I am at 53). 😉 As I love to shift too...but now I would like a Dual Clutch and a selectable adaptive suspension for day in and day out driving. Guess that's where the New Integra enters (just they still only have the CVT instead of a dual clutch). The Regular Civic is a great vehicle...and again you are right on the money with your summary...the Si really has just been the Civic with the "knob turned up". Perfect description!!! Thanks again for all you do...I tell everyone I know about your channel...just LOVE it!
From one old fart to another (54), hello to another former ‘89 Si owner. I’m enjoying this 2022. The days of the old school early gen Si models are long gone, but given our choices I’m well pleased with this purchase. Hyundai didn’t strike me as engaging with the veloster n and I didn’t even look at the gti (reliability and talk of it being fast but boring and having a poor shifter quality made me disinclined to even drive it. If I didn’t have to wait probably another 6months to a year to find a reasonable brz, I would have probably replaced my 2017 with the better motor in the new one, but enjoying the added utility and my field hockey playing daughter can drive her goalie bag to practice in another 18 months so maybe I’m back to the brz in 3 years . The choices for engaging light cars with a manual (still a requirement for me) are not plentiful. Especially if you want quality and good shifter feel. Honda has ordinarily been better than it’s spec sheet and this one is no exception
@@stms4411 Very nice, I totally agree...and always nice to know there are other folks who also notice the lil' details. The Honda Manual really has always been like butter for me. I had friends that had GTIs, where like you said they had reliability issues...and I had a hard time going through the gears on the "Old" GTI's (I guess I should clarify those were older). But it seems time does not change...with VW reliability (at least when I look at those dark circles in the yearly Consumer Reports.
My last Honda/Acura 6-Speed Manual was in an 2014 Acura ILX w/the 2.4L DOHC w/VTEC...and my daughters grew up sharing an '88 Honda Accord "The Kid Car" with a 5-Speed Manual (all the kids learned on the manual). But man that lil' ILX was a kick with its 7,000 RPM Red Line...just long term it was a lil' too small to be my daily driver with my 6'-4" (and too big around frame) ha ha 😇 Blessings to you!
I just learned you can put in aftermarket rear air vents and USB ports. So this mitigates the lack thereof in the SI, but it's still frustrating that the Canadians got such a great SI standard where the US version is so lacking. Why??
They want to get you to buy an Integra for the "luxury" parts and features. Pure evil genius.
Still propping up Acura. It’s time to put that dog down.
Honda wants to make sure you buy a new Type R when it comes out. That's why the 10th gen Hatchback was not sold as an SI.
They are selling all of them and many at a premium. Tells you Honda knows what they’re doing. Another poster got a wrx at list - why? Demand for that car is lower.
Because in Canada, the Si sits on top trim whereas in the USA it is the Touring.
I just sold my 09 Civic Si orange pearl and I looked at getting the new Si.
Here are my pro's for the new Si, Looks great inside and out, has a fantastic shifter, and rev match. Cons the cost $27k? Less content no adaptive dampers or heated seats?
I have also driven a 2019 Civic Type R and I will be test driving the. 23 type once it comes out. I suspect the type r might end up in my garage and not the Si.
Great review!!!
The MSRP seems pretty reasonable to me. I wish they hadn't cut some of those features, but for the price it seems reasonable.
@@markmiller3279 How can Honda justify charging more for less power, a cheaper suspension, no heated seats, if anything the price should have stayed the same or cost less. Even with inflation taken into account.
@@CruiseControl1 1) it’s not actually less power. Do your homework. 2) Suspension is amazing in this car. F your dampers. They just make things more expensive when you need repairs. 3) The seats are cloth and don’t get cold. Never had an issue with them in the cold days.
Wanna know why everything costs more? Inflation and a crippled economy thanks to terrible world leaders and greedy corporations.
@@SIIKAP1 The Si should not cost this much and inflation does not explain why the Elantra GT has the same power for 3grand less?
@@CruiseControl1 Right. It should cost $25,700 or so. Elantra’s are cheap because it’s Hyundai. They cut corners and don’t have the best standing in the automotive world. They HAVE to charge less than competitors, or no one would buy them (aside from the Elantra N)
$8k in 1985 would be $20k in 2021. The Gen 10 Civic cost 23.8k. I dont understand how Honda justifies $27.3k for this Gen 11 Si. It doesn't have dual zone climate control, heated seats, fog lights that the gen 10 had. Gen 10s instrument cluster was nicer IMO. It had a oil temperature gauge that gen 11 doesn't have
That being said. You are right, it is not a budget Type R but despite all its flaws...it still is a nice car
Great intro Alex! Really enjoyed the quick historical comparison. Keep them coming.
My Cdn Si has a spare and sunglasses holders plus all the things mentioned by many.
Also has two USB’s in the back seats
The lack of the vents in the back will go over well in hot climates. How much can Honda cheap out before it becomes embarrassing?
Tint your windows. it’s not a problem. I grew up my entire childhood without rear vents, just put the front vents on higher fan speed to even out the cabin.
@@GROGU123 "Tint your windows [...] I grew up my entire childhood without rear vents" -- Sorry, I did not know this was a comedy show. No, I will not be fixing Honda's cheapness by tinting windows and running front vents full blast. There are plenty of fish in the sea.
Lots of cars don’t have rear vents in this class look at the Jetta, Elantra, Mazda 3, Corolla etc they are not available
@@f181234 "Lots of cars don’t have rear vents in this class" -- I can see Honda smiling right now. With your mentality, manufacturers will cut cut cut, and customers will say, "hey, that's okay, the other car doesn't have it either".
Nice review regular civics have very little power to handle steep hills or mountains
I've had a Forte GT with the GT2 package for a couple of months now. The Kia is **astonishingly** well-equipped for $27K fully loaded. Yes, there is more road noise, the touring tires suck, and I wish it was a hatchback, but that's about it. The DCT works just fine. It's my first DCT, and I don't mind the way it behaves in daily driving at all. I traded a '19 Mazda CX-5 GT Reserve (now called "Turbo"), and I don't miss it at all. In my humble opinion, Kia really hit one out of the park with the Forte GT/GT2, and it's simply the best compact car you can get for $27K. I'm guessing that the Civic is ultimately better, but it's also more expensive while being less well-equipped. I'm totally happy.
Agree 100%. I got a 2022 Forte GT Manual
Love it
A lot of car for the money.
Something I have wanted to see Honda do is make a derated (1.8l) version of the Accord’s K20 turbo. That should deliver around 230 Horsepower. I think it would make a much better Si engine than the slight tune-up of the L15 we have now. That could also be used as an upmarket engine for the CR-V and a base engine for an imaginary Accord-based CUV that Honda should have developed and sold years ago.
Interesting idea. Not sure how easy it would be (Honda's engine designs are very well thought out), but it sounds nice.
on dynos, the 1.5 is 220-230 at the crank
@@KK-tt6ui it's a lie
Love all the historical stats and sales figures! Where'd you even get all that???
The prologue of this video has me nostalgic for a time I wasn't even alive for
Personally Honda going CVT on these as the auto option was a huge miss. I know the manual is more "fun" but for daily use a DCT was a much better compromise
@@iamthedutchbro the hate for CVTs is overblown because of Nissan. If they had made reliable CVTs in the 2000's when they introduced them to the mainstream automotive market, the hatred wouldn't have been this bad. They seem to have figured it out, but sadly the damage has been done, the reputation can't be shaken off.
@@iamthedutchbro my Outback has a CVT too but I wouldn't (and don't) find it acceptable in a WRX for example, 😆
I drove a 1.5T Honda CRV and a brand new Nissan Rogue CVT for at least a week each as rental cars. Let’s just say I will never own a CVT. My current 2 cars are a Hyundai DCT and a K20 Civic Si with a manual. Both drive awesome!!! CVT’s are aweful.
Your average person doesn't even notice what the transmission is doing. A CVT is fine for them.
@@markmiller3279 You are correct, but the Si is not a car that the average person buys. It's "Sport Injected." which is why it's been a manual only transmission car for the longest time.
The Civic SI refresh is a little boring, but I can really appreciate the small improvements Honda did this time around. Like toning down rev-hang, improving ergonomics and smoothing the torque curve. I hope they fixed the oil burning issues from last gen. But removing some features like dual zone climate control or adaptive dampers really sucks for the consumer.
Shame I can’t find one for MSRP right now. Honda dealers near me either don’t have an SI, are not willing to allocate an SI, or are charging a 3-10k markup on it. At that point, I may as well buy the new Integra.
I considered Civic Si, but there is basically none available around for the last couple of months. But the more reviews I watch, the less appealing it is. I probably will hunt for Elantra N for MSRP or get N-Line
Why would the reviews make it less appealing when 99% of them are very positive?
You won’t find an Elantra N anywhere near MSRP. They are very rare. Right now for example there’s only 1 available in AZ. One. That’s crazy. None are due in Southern AZ for at least 90 days. Also crazy. When they do come in they’re $4-5K over MSRP + dealer add-ons. Did I mention crazy?
@@desertdriver7056 Yes, they are very rare. BUT! There is one dealer nearby that sells $3K over MSRP and I have some hopes to negotiate and there are 2 dealers that are more evasive and they say "somewhat above MSRP". I'm not in a rush, so wish me luck :-)
But yes, especially get manual - it's extremely hard
@@SIIKAP1 they are positive and this is definitely a great car. It's just that it's just a combination of the fact the Si is not hot enough, compared to a regular Civic and doesn't have all the amenities/features that I want from daily driver. It could work, if there was no competition, but competition is tough here, as Alex mentioned.
And I agree it's absolutely a matter of a personal preference.
I was really expecting to see "1985", by Bowling for Soup on the infotainment head unit in keeping with Alex's back to the future theme.
Alex, Thanks for the history lesson and context. We hope you have worked through your inner conflict.😁
Make it a full wagon. Would look killer
Lol Americans hate wagons
The 1.5 has serious issues with blown head gaskets, and rod bolts that are weak and allow the head to become loose also. These issues are happening around 50.000 miles and up. Warranty is over, owner must pay for repairs. Just Google 1.5 engine head gasket failures.
Just got the pearl white, added the heated seats, black emblems and the led door edge guards. Paid msrp but took about 5 months to get. Really nice everyday driver and fun to drive. I know its not a race car but I really enjoy it. Imo it looks way better in person to me.
Also wanted to add that my wife had a 22 sport with the 2.0 n.a engine. To me it feels night and day driving them, but thats just my opinion. Great video btw👍
What was your msrp on the si ? What is the difference between the 2.0 your wife drives to the si? Whats your favorite? And whats price difference? Thank you for your answers upfront.
Ain't nobody needing brembo brake on a Si.
I’d really like one of these but unfortunately I cannot by a car without awd. If I do then it’s seasonal here in snow country Idaho.
For the price/power, seems like you're better off getting a WRX. I used to own a 2009 Si Coupe (197hp), and that was a fun car to drive. I always hope that with each new generation, they'll put more power in this thing, but it seems like it always sits around that 200hp range. For the price they're charging, I'd like to see something around 230-250hp.
I guess they kept the power at 200HP because the Integra is supposed to have more power, but we don't know how much power the Integra has yet. All that Honda/Acura has said about the engine is that it's the same one from the Civic Si.
WRX is just damn HIDEOUS
@@closg9309 can’t disagree with that.
That's wishing it were something it isn't, and was never intended to be. The Type R is the hot version. The Si is just warm.
@@damilolaakanni integra has 200 hp. They already announced it
The biggest thing right now are the insane dealer markups. $7-10k seem typical in SoCal.
Not anymore. It’s getting a lot better but I don’t live in California so maybe it’s different
To be Specific, the 1983 Civic S predated the S(injected). The (i) was added to denote fuel injection.
my favorite car was the 85 Toyota Supra
I was very disappointed when the new Si turned up with this weak engine. The Accord's 2.0T would have been the ideal fit to keep the Si competitive with the GTI and N models. And yes, they also stripped out too many features. Bottom line: Honda blew it.
Makes no sense from Hondas perspective. If they put the accord 2 liter in this, it would fetch 35,000 or more……cannibalizes the CTR’s sales. Have you driven one? It’s quick enough to have fun. It competes with the N models and GTI by having a ton more quality, reliability and being more light on its feet.
@@stms4411 You might be right. You're 100% right about the reliability.
@@gerards.5514 don’t get me wrong though…..I’d pay $35k if it had the 2 liter.
My problem is that I prefer understated cars, that have sporting proclivities, great shift linkages and are light and nimble….but also are dynamic and engaging.
Aren’t a lot of cars built to that spec these days. My old brz was really good (and a tune slayed a bit of the midrange problem), but I wasn’t patient enough to wait for availability with its successor (and sometimes it fell short on utility).
The Si checks a lot of boxes for me, but it’s not my only car as well. My boxster scratches the sports car itch, so I don’t need the Si to paste me to the seat back.
Even so, it provides enough grunt to be enjoyable. Reminds me of the essential goodness of my old e46 330i. Different character but a dose of sporting nature to it.
I got my si just about 2 weeks ago and so far I've been happy with it. I test drove an elantra n line with the 6 speed and I was very impressed, I just didn't like the look. The si is way sharper and (besides the heated seats, which pisses me off every time I get in the car), the interior is much nicer. Honestly, I think it's quick enough. Behind the wheel its faster than average traffic. 40-70 mph is underwhelming, but I'm very happy with how it launches to 30 and it is much faster than I expected it to be at highway speeds. Hondata has dyno'd multiple 2022 si's and they're all about 220 hp, which is believable really. My buddy has a new civic sport with the 1.5t and cvt, my si is much quicker. Handling is superb as well, and the 6 speed is by far the best manual I've experienced in a FWD car. I dunno, I really think it should have the full digital dash and heated seats, but other than that I have nothing to complain about. It has some nice stuff too, like the bose audio which sounds really good actually. Average 33 mpg so far, overall very happy with my decision.
@@chrisdaxer3984 appreciate the thoughtful impressions, thanks. I have to say, though I bought a two year old 2017 brz three years ago and sold it to get the Si…..it had heated seats and I maybe used them 10 times. I grew up in Ct and live in Pa so I have real winters but I don’t see a heated seats as a big plus with cloth or alcantara seats. I found it difficult to source my 2013 boxster so I was thrilled to find an S w a manual in my ideal color combo and desired price range about 15 months ago, so I don’t complain about particular spec. I do miss the lack of heated seats in that, but since it’s sees limited winter drive time, it’s not a huge sacrifice. I also don’t really care about the 1/2 digital display. I’d be quite fine if it were all analog, because I love the old school simplicity of the dials and the no-nonsense design. I keep it on the no content setting inside the tach (if I want info, I use the screen.
To each his own, but I think this Si delivers on the promise. I think Honda misses the mark when they have fake vents and computer port shaped exhaust pipes…..no thanks. I didn’t like that gimmickry even when I was a kid.
Perhaps it’s an advantage being an old guy…..most of my cars were low tech and I don’t bemoan the lack of specific features. I owned an 89 Si with NO power assist steering. With a blistering 100hp and 108 ft-lbs of torque, it was more fun - not less - than this 2022 model. As you say, this one is powerful enough. Enjoy it!
5:40 Those who want an automatic Civic Si could get the Integra but that one's a CVT 😅
May the Force be with us all.
I prefer the Civic SI. If Toyota offered a midway stop between the Corolla SE and the GR Corolla, I might change my mind.
More Accord type r we did not get in the 90s, glad this exists
Hopefully this will be my car when I graduate college in a couple of months! I love my 17 corolla but as a car guy it is kinda boring. Im hoping the mark ups will have gone down by then.
This is a great car inside and out. Unfortunately the high interest rates place this car close to 40,000 Canadian. I do wish it was just a bit better. The 1.5l is not my favorite. My perfect si would be 220 to 240hp and 230 to 240 pound feet of torque. Also, there should be a DCT. Acura had an 8 speed dct, so you know they could make a great one for the si
The Integra manual comes with the adaptive suspension, but it is 36k :/
civic si 2000 160 hp 2,612 pounds 8.8 sec
civic si 2006 197hp 2,945 pounds 6.7 sec
civc si 2022 200hp 3,012 pounds 6.7 sec
Yea...
Honda has really been lazy the past decade and a half. It's sad.
@@janoycresnova9156 nah Hondas fine. If anything it’s Toyota who’s been lazy
Because Honda consistently outclasses Toyota in just about every single comparison test in just about every category. Compact to midsize to cuv to 3 row suv to midsize suv to hybrids. If they were lazy they wouldn’t be segment benchmarks or the standard by which everything mainstream is measured against
Is the SI really as slow as all the other reviews are saying? >7.5 sec to 60 ?
A think average is about 8 sec unless you dropping the clutch.
What do you expect. It's underpowered as hell.
The gearing doesn’t help either. You have to shift almost 3 times to hit ~60 mph from a dig
Yeah, this car is somewhat of a flop.
@@guerro327 selling like crazy though. MY 2022 Si’s are sold out. If you don’t have a deposit by now, you’re getting one next year
What in the heck is “individual” mode?
I don't know how you can miss a lack of a LSD on Forte GT when you could go so detailed and bashing (almost) the Si. Or for that matter Civic sport touring which is a relatively more sticker price if not too much. Almost want to appreciate the analysis but falls a little short.
Strongly disagree with having a dual clutch transmission. You talk of practicality, but those transmissions have the highest maintenance costs and most frequent maintenance intervals while manual transmissions are the opposite, as long as you don't have some amateur burning the clutch out of ignorance. My last Honda, a 1993 Accord Wagon, I bought at 125k miles and sold at 235k miles with original clutch. I did change the transmission oil at about 200k for $25 around 2014. Sold in 2015.
I was thinking something along these lines as well when he was talking about the dry-clutch DCT in the Elantra N-Line and Forte GT. I own a 2019 Elantra Sport with the dry-clutch DCT and while what he says about usability and smoothness are all correct, I have been disappointed with how the feel of the DCT has changed substantially over time, resulting in substantially laggier and less smooth shifts. I'm counting on the DCT clutch needing to be replaced before the warranty expires so it freshens up, because it is going to cost a couple thousand dollars to replace the DCT clutch. If I'm not able to get the DCT clutch replaced before the end of the warranty, that may be what makes me decide to sell the car.
i agree man
DCTs are much, much more practical than manuals. They are also more expensive. Those are not conflicting statements.
Locking someone out of ever comfortably driving your car because they've got a bad wrist is limiting yourself, and the only explanations are not wanting to spend on R&D, and gatekeeping.
@@cpMetis Good point "locking someone out" of driving my car. Manuals get stolen less. I can see automatics for the injured. Mostly I see cars that are automatic only when only recently they had a manual option, and those are often at the lowest trim levels. Americans have a particularly low number of manuals and I see that as either lazy or ignorant vs Europeans. Luxury with a stick, fine with me.
The Si died after the 8th gen.
I am kind of happy my 2021 civic hatchback had no mark up. Those mark up go insane after 2021 April….
In 1985, Hayundai, Diahtsu and Yugo were the new kids on the block.
I just love when automakers cheap out the rear door panels as a cost saving. And air vents for rear seat passengers should be on all cars. This type of cost cutting is just stupid and detracts from the perceived quality of the vehicle. Agree with Alex on the need for DCT. All the decontenting on this car was simply to create space between it and the upcoming Integra.
Alex your ending notes is about the same ending as what you stated about the 10th GEN.😂
I really can’t understand why anyone would want a salon over a hatchback.
You can never discount Alex on autos jokes. 1985 i was 3 ft shorter, and the si was too. if this don't crack you up, you're not human. :D
How does this drive compared to the 2020 Si?
I thought about buying an Si, passed on it and purchased a Kona N. The Si is simply too slow for me. The Kona is way more fun than the Civic.
and no rev hang with the Kona N which kills the driving experience on the Honda.
@@lukewalker1051 The Kona N is only available with the DCT. No manual is offered. Only the Elantra N has a manual option
I loved the 2dr coupe. Bought a new Si but it was a 4 dr. But I thought the 2dr coupe looked better
It would be amazing if Honda Civic SI's came with dual clutch transmissions as well.
No heated seats, no sound insulation and crazy markups…..lost respect for Honda
Outrageous dealer markups make it non desirable. No engine temperature gauge in the instrument cluster. Come on Honda, how cheap can you get?
Are we sure it isn't in one of those optional screens?
@@markmiller3279 negative. I couldn't find it.
Base dyno shows 220hp so it makes more power than the previous gen. Has a better turbo too.
Honestly the power seat adjustiblity of the elantra n line and high trim Forte GT might be what brings me to purchase one of those.
Great review Alex. Thx. Like the Forte.
anyone have tips on navigating the current market? my wife's car was hit at red light and totaled so now we have to get her a new one. what's the strategy on getting a new vehicle (lease works too) without paying a ton over MSRP? also, if it is easier to point me to any specific resources that also helps! Thanks!
Easy, get your wife a boyfriend that works at the dealership.
Some dealerships aren't charging extra, but they usually have long waits and it sounds like you can't do that.
The other strategy is to simply buy a model that isn't selling very well. That usually means one that was introduced a while ago. There are some good ones, like the Mazda3, which has sold very badly, but is a nice car. The regular Elantra hasn't done well, either, and it's perfectly OK. There are a bunch more , but you need to see what the dealers around you are marking up, and what they aren't.
I bought a 2012 si to satisfy my dream during my youth. at 6 feet 2 inches and 260 lbs, that dream died on the drive home.
:-(
Test drives are a thing.
Is the vents section of the dashboard easy to clean?
Should be - if you use a soft brush or even a soft toothbrush should be no problem.
Reviewers have noted that the new Civic has Audi like traits but I don’t see it. Is it in the build quality? The NVH? The way the door sounds when it closes? Ultimately this generation seems bland and the Si version is unlikely to expand its market share even within the hot hatch niche
That’s what makes it more premium feeling. The style is what makes it safe pragmatic responsibile sensible can’t go wrong
Just means it looks lightly premium exterior wise, that's all.
This new Civic feels great. Compared to the last gen it is a huge step in the right direction.
i had a 2002 red Z24 Cavalier. 2.4L QUAD oh it was 5 speed 😂fun n fast back then for me
I have a 2 door and a manual transmission. 1 percent-er I guess.
You want a nicer civic Si with fog lights included? Get the new Integra!
thank u Alex ive been waiting for this review sweet
Honda should have made the 10-speed an option. I believe 0-60 would have been 6seconds flat.
The 2017 civic si was 23,900 the current is 28,000 but what the hell have they added it’s lacking fog lights adaptive dampers heated seats etc this car is a joke
Canadian Si worth the price, not the US model worth 28k
One thing I hear all the time "why buy the Integra when you can get a Civic for less?" I might be able to answer it when I get a chance to drive them, but until then, what do you all think?
More options. Automatic with the more powerful 1.5t. Looks better.
@@slscamg it's a CVT, not an automatic.
@@slscamg Integra has a 6 speed manual available with the A-Spec package. But thats $36k.
It's a hatchback with this engine, looks good, has lots of extras either standard or optional, and has more brand prestige (slightly). It's a nice alternative to the Civic.
If the elantra N was 31,000 Canadian, I would buy one for sure. In reality, the n is 40,000 Canadian.
No Mazda 3 comparison?
Needs at least 240-250 hp. And the mark ups are crazy.
Why? It's roughly as quick as it has ever been. Not every car needs to be that fast. If you want speed, wait for the Type R.
@@markmiller3279 because progress?
That's the problem, it's had the same acceleration for 20 years now.
I don't want next level, I want what was available last year for thousands less lol
Only the civic Si can go thru 3 generations and still only offer about 200hp and no one complains 🤷 you would think it should be around at least 230hp by now
Chevy Cavalier was a terrible car -- sales were from marketing and the use of "badge engineering" to see the same car as a Buick, Olds and even Cadillac. All were awful cars.
Disappointed in the incandescent rear lights, no heated seats (??) and no lumbar support (??). No rear air vents and no rear USB ports. What point is there in "cheaping out" to keep costs down by removing details that a large segment of the target market might want. Also removed the dual suspension mode. Not Good. On the plus side, Hondas have excellent manual shifters. Still fun to drive.
(I like the thought of adding summer tires to a "regular" Civic as an alternative.)
Not at all concerned with 0-60... much more interested in gearing and how it feels 30-100.
that tail light, man. they seem like direct copy of vw jetta
What Alex fails to address, is that Honda dealers are marking this model up by thousands of dollars.
No point in addressing it when all dealers are doing it to desirable new models, and it is likely only temporary. He's making videos that will still be useful in a year.
When did the Kia Forte GT get so attractive?
MEH…….U.S. getting less standard options…THANKS HONDA! Call me when it gets 25-30 more H.P.'s This thing becoming a boat at 184 inches? What happened to Honda's smaller more nimble cars? There are none to be found anymore.
You make an excellent point. At 192 inches a Camry V6 has 100 more HP. To my way of thinking the Camry is a better buy considering the supposed extra mark ups by Honda dealers.
@@IKnewMickey you shouldn’t be looking at length the Camry is 500 pounds more than this
@@f181234 You're 100% correct but in my simple mind both cars are 4 door front wheel drive cars that are almost sporty and similar in price. I don't slice "competing segments" as thinly as some ppl.
this man actually claimed to be 6 feet tall with a straight face 😂
That essay that you're testing with the 1.5 l it would be a no goodbye for most people that has the turbo that I guess is too strong for the engine and you have gas leaking into the oil Plus in Canada they do come with heated seats fog lights and and heated outside mirrors I don't know why they can't come to America like that I would say that's a no-go you better off buying something else thank you Alex
It would be nice if they offered those options, but realistically, few Americans live in climates where they need them.
Really hate the term sports car being applied to a civic. May as well call the odyssey a sports car
Sadly, "greed is good" and so I doubt anyone can find this for MSRP
The forte GT is similarly priced as this. It comes with a ton of amenities and an Automatic option. I am curious if the Si just has a better quality or has a better suspension that causes it to undercut the competition, even though it's limited in performance and features.
I've had the last 2 versions of the Si. The biggest advantage is quality and more than that, reliability. Honda has all their versions of the Si separately priced all the way from the base Civic to the Type-R. The only reason Honda deleted some features(dual zone climate, fog lights, etc) is because they want to promote their new Acura Integra..which is finally the Si HATCH that many people wanted but it's gonna be expensive. I will admit the Mazda 3 hatch is smoother and quieter than the Si.
I'd rather get the Elantra N
the SI is becoming an afterthought, built to a price point to be slotted between the type r and the regular civic. for the extra cost, youre only getting a slight performance bump while you get a decontented interior. gone are the days where the SI was the top trim. Now, its like a mid-level trim with some performance upgrades. not the top trim with the performance upgrades. oh nevermind, the nice SI is still around, its just called the integra now.
I don’t know why someone would get this over the Civic touring. You lose 20hp but gains sooo much more
Kia Forte. Wish they brought the hatchback!! The hatchback was like an Audi! Will have to get one from Canada when changing from my Volvo V50. Naaa... Will just buy another Volvo V50 turbo. New cars are ridiculous.
I so agree. I was annoyed when Hyundai cancelled the Elantra GT (i30) in the US, right when other makes were finally offering some decent hatchbacks. The Forte hatchback in GT form would be very appealing.
I have a 24’ Si. Big mistake. It’s a turd even with the 200hp
Come on Alex, a Forte GT? Seriously?
The ride getting a B- based on a bumpy road is misleading. On normal roads the ride quality is great.