Delta Flt#89 Fuel Jettison over LAX B-777 200 14 Jan 2020 (Part 1)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- 1st of 2 videos reviewing the recent fuel jettison and emergency landing of Delta 89 Heavy on 14 Jan. I'll have Part II on this subject up soon.
LINKS:
VAS Aviation:
• Delta B772 has COMPRES...
AvHerald:
avherald.com/h?...
Boeing 777 Info on Fuel Dumping:
www.boeing.com...
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Thanks Juan for the shout-out and support! Really appreciate it. Nice and a pleasure to be a source of info for your analysis :)
VASAviation - two great channels collaborating is a treat for the viewers. Thanks to both of you. :)
Petter from MentourPilot actually gave both y’all a shoutout, on this subject. Actually how I ended up here
Awesome ! this kind of access to a world we know nothing about is fascinating . Thank you both
I have also watched a lot of VASAviation videos and I know they take a lot of time, effort and some equipment to pull together the audio and visual of every event he presents. His videos give us insight we would never get from mainstream media or a 15 second TV news broadcast! I've been watching him for a few years and highly recommend his channel if you want to learn more about air traffic control, incidents, accidents, etc. Bravo to Juan for a big shout-out to VASAviation!
You do an amazing job VASAviation.
Many years ago an American registered airliner departed London Heathrow and had an engine failure. They called an emergency and stated that they were already dumping fuel. ATC pointed out that they were about to fly over Windsor Castle and that the Queen was in residence. The aircrew replied that she “can have some of it or all of it!”
Step 1: see aviation-related event in the news. Step 2: immediately find Juan's commentary already recorded and posted
Step 3: ignore MSM
Any chance ots because they absolutely want to be sure they are not causing a human problem with miscommunication. Thid could cost someone their job plus risk lives. Just asking as I have no experience in this area.
Nathan Greer
Your first mistake is listening to MSM.
ha ha...right, as was about to post similar 1-2 protocol for aviation in the news. You nailed it!
Just me or anyone else feeling like just few more videos from Juan @blancolirio and I think I can fly or assist in case of a pilot \ flight emergency ! ~ All while enjoying some fine "Santa Barbara Chocolate" .../;^)
@@tomedgar4375 "Nathan Greer
"Your first mistake is listening to MSM."
He was only reading headlines.
Very good I declared emergencies 5 times in my airline career and not one negative word from any one. I also agree about approach at a major airport when you have a frequency change you have to waste explaining everything again. Been there done that. Great job Juan
I think it's great how Juan plugs some of the other aviation channels for their expertise in certain areas. He's not the only YTer to do that, but it sure makes studying any given subject (if watching YT could be called studying) that much more effective. Thanks for the great work, Juan.
I started watching VASAviation about a month ago, but recommendation after watching a video about MH370. The level of skill and organization I heard from ATC, actually made me LESS afraid of flying. Last I recall, air traffic controllers are employees of the Federal Aviation Administration, which is a TAXPAYER funded agency! Which means that EVERYTHING they do belongs to WE THE PEOPLE. TH-cam is full of ****. VASAviation is AWESOME, and is more deserving of monetization that many government agencies are deserving of funding.
I used to fuel the American Airlines 777 that flew from Phoenix to London, and would regularly put on 160,000 to 190,000 lbs of fuel, depending on passenger weight and weather. Btw, max fuel load for a 777-200 is 301,000 lbs. 63,500 in each wing, and 174,000 in the center. I remember one incident where I was fueling, and it suddenly started dumping fuel out of the fuel dumps. The mechanics had to come out and crawl into the wing to manually close the valves.
@@feetgoaroundfullflapsC That was my thought. Maybe one of the pilots accidentally bumped the fuel dump switch while moving around. But according to the mechanic, they can't dump fuel while on the ground.
@@murphsmodels8853 Malfunctioned? I'd love to know the actual reason.
Murph's Models...If you know anything about the cockpit layout of the 777 (certainly not expecting everyone too by any means), the manual fuel dump isn’t something that can be “bumped” into. It is a hooded switch that takes several steps to initiate. Not trying to be a dick at all...just informing because it seems many people think that could be the case. Not impossible no, but damn near. The pilots would really have to be in some sort of cage fight for a while to pull it off.
Woa.... What???
Was Homer on vacation from the nuclear power plant and was moonlighting as a pilot? Doh!
I love your channel. I’m retired Air Force. In 1976 I started out as a Crash Fire Fighter and cross trained to aircrew. I was a C-5 Loadmaster. I’ve seen 2 of the 3 of air operations. As a firefighter your get info from the tower but not from the cockpit. Once we can see the aircraft if there is smoke or fire we could what was going. As an aircrew I defiantly know what going thru checklist since you train on all the time. I worked engines out, hung gear, hot brakes and crashes. To be on the other end of the emergency is a trip. Please keep up the great work. I’ve been retired for 8 years now so have been away from this for along time.
Fred Hill, Juan didn't (to my knowledge), fight airplane fires, but he did fight forest fires from a U.S. Forest Service airplane. So at the very least, the 2 of you have fire science training in common.
I can't believe Juan is now going full Hollywood and ending an episode with a cliffhanger!
Haa! now for some special effects...lol
@@blancolirio Careful Juan, Spielberg may want royalty's. "Just want you to know, Were all counting one you" < Airplane :)
@@HTHCLLC and dont call me shirley
@@yorkiepudd7404 "What's our vector, Victor?"
@@navy57 vector, victor is under over roger - oooo i say and DONT eat the fish haha
Juan, the commercial aviation industry owes you a great deal of thanks for being a level headed unbiased industry spokesman. I hope they at least send you a thank you card.
Stumbled across the VASAviation stuff a couple of weeks age, find is fascinating. Your commentary on top helped a non aviation person understand more of what was going on, thank you 👍
When I heard about it on the radio today my first thought was when you where going to post a video about it. Thank you for this excellent journalism.
Retired from ATC. Its drilled into their heads. But yes normally you would forward this information to the supervisor and coordinate with the receiving controller to avoid every one asking the same questions...
For whatever reason, ZLA is the worst in doing this. There are numerous Emergencies on VAS's website in ZLA where the crew had to give the basic info multiple times. It's a problem from the top down in that ARTCC.
Mark just how important is it that ATC needs to know immediately the number and souls on board right at the beginning of the emergency? You already know the type of aircraft and that it is going to the Orient so you know there are a lot of people and a lot of fuel. That is my biggest gripe with ATC when I have declared an emergency and interrupting our train of thought. Otherwise you guys do a terrific job! :-)
@@jcheck6 As I understand it they want to know in case the worst happens. IF I have the right seating information there could be 267 passengers plus crew. Quite a difference from 181 total in this case when calling in a mass casualty.
Agree. What difference does it make if it’s 80 or 280 souls - is an airport not going to send out all equipment unless it’s a certain number?
Glad to hear from a pro. I fully realize that air traffic control is a highly complex intense and stressful environment. Adding to both the pilots and the traffic controllers workload with poor communication is dangerous and of course unfair to both.
I am a fan of VasAviation for its replays of important aviation events and the associated ATC recordings.
2Phast4Rocket and he is quick about getting it out if it is major. Normally it’s out within hrs if not the next day at the latest.
This is why i no longer watch main stream media, you provide most all info that i desire and I trust your reporting. Thanks...
@Sunamer Z it is sickening watching c-span for years, then New Yorks MSM then local news regurgitating what has been editorialized...journalistic laziness, editorial dictatorship
Main stream media is only interested in getting your attention and getting your emotions riled up so they can feed you commercials. There is no journalism anymore just sensationalism. Everyone has become the national inquirer.
@@bobharms8787 Yeah? Try the Harry and Megan stuff on You Tube! Oh, my goodness! Those Brit media personalities can be cruel.
@@bobharms8787 FWIW, back during the work up to the 2000 presidential elections, then-candidate George W. Bush announced his selection of Dick Cheney to be his VP-running mate.
The collective MSM immediately introduced a word new to the lexicon of a vast majority of Americans:
GRAVITAS
I knew what it meant thanks to my parents and excellent English teachers in school. Not many Americans had ever heard the word, "gravitas", much less knew its meaning, but for the next few days, no matter what the medium, be it in print, or on the radio or TV, it always was there.
Somebody had handed it out to the MSM, regardless of individual platforms -- which are supposedly independent of each other -- and they all ran with it.
They continue this malpractice right up to today.
@@navy57 read my reply to @ sunnamer z
I'm an aviation nut, but not an expert. That said, I'm always amazed at the very poor network tv coverage of any incident. Even Network "aviation experts" amaze me with their lack of, or incorrect, information. I appreciate what you and VAS do. I went straight to VAS after the news report, and there it was. Can't believe how fast you guys get this done.
Thanks Juan! As soon as I heard of this incident I thought, I am waiting for the Blancolirio report on this. He knows the tripple seven.
I am a follower of VASAviation. I saw their video earlier today. But beeing a keyboard pilot I need the Blancolirio explanations!!!
Yep!!!
Thanks for the commentary. I'm in the LA area and first heard of the incident on local radio. Figured both you and VAS would report on it, and am not disappointed. Your comments are particularly appreciated, seeing as you might actually know something about flying a 777. :) Looking forward to part 2.
And he's experienced with flying out of LAX.
for someone who doesn't like flying (me) its nice to know that true professionals like yourself are flying the planes we all travel on daily
VAS Aviation absolutely rocks, an excellent channel. Thanks for the shout out Juan, great content on your channel as well.
You're a great pilot and a great man. Thanks for your videos and comments! Greetings from MAD/LEMD.
Juan, I'm almost certain, and surprised you haven't already, encountered criticism for your factual reporting in recent aviation events. I just want to make sure that you know I appreciate your perspective as a professional, experienced pilot. I'm not currently, nor have I been, flying professionally for several years now. However, it is still easy for me to ascertain who on youtube or other outlets are reporting on the industry in a real, unfiltered way.
I feel like you do not have an agenda for or against any airline or pilot that you report on. Even though sometimes I feel like you struggle to find the exact words you want to convey, ultimately your knowledge and experience shows through to those who either have experience in the industry or have transferrable knowledge. You are also a great link between the technical and casual aviation subject.
So please keep doing what you are doing, and providing the public with the perspective you have. In my opinion, what you are doing is the future of "news".
Thanks Craig!
Awesome comment Craig!
You have done a great job of explaining the intricacies of bringing a big heavy airliner back to home base while keeping everyone involved safe. I don't know diddly about flying a plane, but I always find your videos to be highly informative, even for a simple observer like me.
Sir I really appreciate your timely videos on incidents that happened and your detailed manner on how you explain them thank you keep up the good work and God bless
Thank you Juan for the shout-out for my friend Victor at VASAviation. He’s working very hard while learning in aviation school and putting up his videos. One day he may even have the privilege of working under your tutelage.😊
As far as this low-altitude fuel dump is concerned, I’m looking at my watch and tapping my foot because here come the new regulations. Ohhh boy.
gomphrena -beautiful flower- - The authorities can regulate all they want. The bits missing are that 1. Aircrews have a duty to ensure the safety of the aircraft and those on board and 2. The regulations are not in charge of the knons and buttons and 3. The aircrew want to get home in one piece so will ignore any rules and they can and will play their trump card and that is you may deviate from the rules to save life. The big question is why was fuel dumped when they initially said they had no need to do so?
What new regulations? We'll wait for part 2, but my understanding from reading comments here and watching other pilots on YT do videos on fuel dumping is that there ARE regulations and procedures. In some of those videos I may have even seen that some charts have areas specified as fuel dump zones.
Juan can comment, but it seems these pilots ignored the first few steps in the fuel dump procedure.
Captain Joe has 2 videos on fuel dumping. Why - th-cam.com/video/R9oqi6HteJg/w-d-xo.html and where - th-cam.com/video/JpWBLzlXIIY/w-d-xo.html
I mention part 1 because he does cover that it has to be coordinated with ATC and needs to ensure it's at a proper altitude. Part 2 covers it in depth.
Yes, I am aware there are regulations in place. Key word in my post: “new.” Or maybe existing ones strengthened with teeth. Either way, watch for a change.
Juan I started following you during the Oroville accident. On the other hand I follow VASAviation since a long time because I’m a huge aviation enthusiast and the guy who is Spanish like me does a terrific job.Then I find out you are a 777 pilot and love your aviation videos. Ultimately you start referencing VASAviation on your videos and I feel this is the happiest coincidence in TH-cam!
Thanks very much. looking forward to hearing about the fuel dump from a pilot's perspective. Also, I hope you'll address the urgency the pilot feels to get his plane and it's souls onbout back on the ground. Thanks!
Charlie, if the pilot was able to operate the problem engine at idle, there probably was not the urgency to land and could have dumped over the ocean. Bet that will be Juan's conclusion.
@@jcheck6 Thanks very much for the feedback
The pilots solved the compressor stall on that faulty engine. Unless there was another compressor stall on the other engine. It does not feel to me it was an emergency. So it boggles my mind why they need to get back on the ground ASAP.
ATC did clearly asked if they need to do fuel dump which they replied no need.
@@GlobalDrifter1000 no, ATC asked if they need to dump fuel. They said no.
But you can clearly see the 777 dumping fuel. And no comms back to ATC that they are dumping fuel.
Can't wait for part 2. I wanna hear more about the dumping and why they chose not to go out over the ocean and dump.
They probably figured they would be crucified by the goddamn bunny humpers and rock lickers anyways......however they probably figured more so by dumping fuel in the ocean. I’m sure that would have raised the earths temperature by several degrees, killed every living organism in the ocean and made the Greenland ice sheet melt by the end of the day.
@@specforged5651 Except if they would have followed normal procedures and dumped at the recommended altitudes the fuel would have atomized long before and not really dropped into the water.
Honestly sounded like an error on the flight crew with all the mixed signals that was coming from the radio transmissions.
Will love to hear what comes of all this.
@ 7:30 they refer to the engine problem as "compressor stalls" (plural), then again @ 8:31 they say "it just stalled"...so maybe the problem was getting worse. Hopefully we'll get the results of the investigation soon. :-)
@@aussiebloke609 this^^^^^.
They clearly state multiple stalls. That engine was fucked. And until they can diagnose it, how much faith do you have in the other one?
FooBar Maximus...I hate those goddamn environmentalist. No, I’m not for just ruining the planet and of course I’ll do what I can to help, but I’m not going to go out of my way to buy an electric car, get rid of all my two stroke toys and diesel trucks. The shit that they come up with blows my mind so I came up with a few names for them as well. 😂
I take my ATPL exams and I found your channel accidentally. I'm very impressed with your professionalism, experience and true passion! Thank you for all your movies and I look forward to the next! Great respect for what you do on YT! Greetings and hugs from Poland! :)
Welcome aboard!
I was thinking that maybe the verbal com for the fuel dump was done in the "black out" part. I don't know.. just a guess. I really enjoy the analysis Juan. Unlike some folks, or may "like" some folks, your vids actually make me more comfortable about flying. I fly all over the world for my job so it's reassuring to know all the planning and training that's out there to make this the safest mode of transportation.
Jeff, we've got 300 hour ab initio copilots up there. What did you know at 300 hours? I didn't know sh-- from beans. They need 3,000 hours in Beech 18s & DC-3s with no radar, no autopilot & only raw instrumentation with no heater & radios & nav equipment that only works when it feels like it.
The crew flew the airplane first. Smart move not to be rushed by ATC . Jaun thanks for an informative and timely report. As usual mainstream media concentrated on dramatic not on how the crew safety got the airplane down.
Juan, the term "terminated" has always indicated the cause of the problem has been shutoff. And again, the fuse plugs are not in the tires, they are in the rim of the tire, made of Aluminium which is designed to melt in the rim and release the pressure before the tires get hot enough to explode from the heat. This AC was landing heavy which 99% of the time will result in hot brakes which get hot enough to heat up the rim (not the tires) and melt the Aluminium plug in the rim so the pressure to be released before the tires explode from the heat. Landing heavy is the second worse scenario besides a rejected takeoff by a heavy AC.
Here are some additional details relating to fuseplugs and their interplay with the rolling assembly:
Fuseplugs are made of what materials engineers call a "eutectic" -- a mixture of substances (which can include a particles of metal such as aluminum for overall strength of the plug) in a binder chosen for its consistent and appropriate melting point. So the binder goes first, and that breaks the dam so to speak.
The heat can be coming mostly from the brakes (both conductive and radiative heat, which complicates fuseplug design decisions), or mostly from the tires. Usually it's some combination of both (more complications).
Tires are designed to have a burst pressure twice their rated pressure, which among other things provides time for heat to get to at least one of the fuseplugs and release pressure prior to the tire bursting. In the case of say a very long taxi at high weight and moderate speed (because who wants to taxi 25,000 ft out to the Honolulu reef runway at 10 mph... and then back at 10 mph after a no-go), that heat will be coming mostly from within the tires. Transport aircraft tires are both thicker than car tires (which traps more heat) and operate at about twice the deflection (30-35% vs more like 17% for car tires). So they can get plenty hot, and I used to get paid good money (ok... regular engineer crap money) to figure out how hot.
This infrared video of a Shuttle landing gives a dramatic indication of what's going on with tire temperatures at touchdown: th-cam.com/video/RPfegCqTKxA/w-d-xo.html
BTW, the Shuttle tires were basically standard aircraft tires, though with altered proportions of the component materials. Plus (fun fact!), because they would be inaccessible for up to a few months before landing while retracted inside the orbiter, each individual tire was tested to characterize its leak rate over a three-month period, and then inflation was done to various over-rating amounts so as to hopefully have them all be about at the desired pressure come landing.
I am a retired 777 Captain. This is the second of these low altitude fuel dump events that Delta has done that I am familiar with. That airplane can land at max TAKEOFF weight and stop in less than 8,000 feet. There is no reason to dump fuel in LAX or ATL on those long, uncontaminated runways. Part of every takeoff briefing we conducted included landing distance for a 1 and 2-engine immediate return. Fuel dump for an emergency return was only necessary when on shorter, contaminated surfaces.
OMG I must be dreaming...a VASAviation video with a play by play from Juan. This is so informative, such a great combo, the Reese’s peanut butter cup of plane spotting. It would be great if you guys could collaborate more. Thanks for all your work Blancolirio and VASAviation!
Heard the news and thought: I won't listen to any more mainstream blather, when I get a moment I know a man who will tell me everything I need to know in clear and concise terms. I hardly need to add I love your channel!
It amazes me that an airliner can declare an emergency and then be bombarded with the redundant communication. It is just ridiculous. Maybe it's a result of the age of the equipment they're using. I really don't know. But once upon what declares an emergency someone should be communicating that information to the next controller whether it's via text on a screen or verbal it would ease the workload on the pilot at a critical time and on the controllers. Another great video by the way!
Information can get conveyed incorrectly. Current situation can change.
Did they ever actually declare an emergency?
I've felt the same emotions before. I understand the need to switch between two or more controllers between departure and arrival, and am happy that he didn't have center in the mix. Overall, they did perfectly because radios can only recieve or transmit voice at slower than speak time. Would be nearly impossible to have a single controller without adding ground infrastructure to accompany specificly emergencies in or at every direction.
"Fuel and souls onboard" is a standard request from ATC. That information along with the runway and estimated arrival time is normally relayed to the emergency equipment personnel at the airport so that they can be in place and ready to respond immediately after touchdown. LAX is one of the busiest airports in the world. You can see a steady stream of arrivals and departures and constant radio chatter so that ATC Controllers are being challenged just to keep aircraft separation. The arrivals are being sequenced in a continuous line for literally 100 miles out.That line had to be adjusted to allow space for Delta89 to fit in. He was streaking at a really high speed on downwind so where he would fit in required considerable judgement on the Controllers part. This is probably why the souls onboard and fuel was not passed on. In my opinion they did an excellent job.
Its give and take,the controllers are under a lot of pressure also ,much less LAX! If it was Des Moine Iowa not so much
Thanks so much, Juan. You are now my go-to place when there is an aviation incident anywhere in the world. I really appreciate what you are doing and how much work this is to inform those of us that want the real information rather than what we get from the non-pilots in the mainstream media.
another great update, looking forward to hearing your thoughts in part 2 & yes VASA does a fab job in compiling & bringing the ATC traffic to the public
Been stalking your channel since watching the VAS video yesterday. I knew you would be here to break this down for us asap! Many thanks Juan!
When I saw this on VAS Aviation I wondered if we would get an informative Blancolirio update on this as it was not a major incident but it had me interested in Juan's take on in and here is the update and more to come! Thanks Juan always appreciate your timely factual reporting.
Must agree about VAS great channel and really backed up by your professional insight. Thans to both channels
Thank you for a professional lead through. Look forward to the next chapter.
Vas is awesome. I am not a pilot but i love it. Very educational. Love it
Another Perfect Video explaining the Emergency Landing of Delta 89 Heavy.. Thanks Juan !
Just a musing on "requesting equipment" - on the bright side, even if you thankfully don't need it, you've given the response teams a great drill!
Thanks for covering this, Juan. The audio which VAS was able to capture left me wondering about the cockpit controls to dump fuel, and I was able to learn that there is an arming switch for the fuel jettisoning system--after which it is activated by some other (unknown to me) event, then the trail (for my superficial research) went cold.
Meanwhile, the audio sounded like a lot of distractions and interactions (including additional compressor stalls) occurred after they might have armed the system.
So,I'm looking forward to your further analysis.
Thank Juan for the excellent commentary. Every time I heard about this incident on the radio yesterday, they would play the sound of a recip engine underneath their report.
So cool. Yesterday you said "incident Info tomorrow" (para.) so I went to VAS. Your pointing and explaining locked it in for me. And again, You da man!
VAS found me...
I don’t even bother to check out mainstream news reports on aviation incidents anymore. I just wait for Juan and VASAviation to post videos and I’m informed.
Thanks, Juan!
Inaccurate information from the main stream media, imagine that. As a Police Officer and a pilot, I have learned to pay no attention to the media. Thanks Juan for always providing accurate and factual information.
The problem is the lack of experts hired by the media. Mostly a bunch of celebrity nobodies. Heck getting a meteorologist reporting on weather events is rare.
We need to bring scientists, engineers and other experts back into the news room to bring back their credibility.
Honestly I love your enthusiasm, people who really know aviation appreciate it because a lot of people don’t dumb it down enough, for instance someone might just say he’s trying to get it down to 157 knts for final and right now he’s at 300+ and not really emphasize how crazy that really is especially considering he’s in a quick descent from 8,000 down to 2700 or whatever he needs while also being very heavy....there’s another guy...GOD DAMN his name is escaping me right now but he’s a very VERY good instructor mainly with GA aircraft who has a you tube channel also who I feel, is a down to earth person not
A robot but also shares a HUGE love for aviation..I’ll find out and edit....(edit) his TH-cam is “the finer points” lord forgive me for forgetting his actual name at the moment but you two are some of the best aviation guys on TH-cam
Great video! Us mortals get to glimpse into the world of commercial pilots and airport air traffic controllers!!! Very illuminating! Thank you, good stuff!
That was like a master class in the challenges facing both cockpit crew and ATC. I don’t know where this would fall on the 1-10 stress meter for the pilots or the tower, but it’s great to hear it handled on both sides with utmost professionalism. Thanks for sharing.
I remember the lengthening of 25R when I worked at LAX. It was supposed to be the main runway for takeoffs for the A380. The funny thing is that it never turned out that way. Almost all A380 landings and takeoffs are done at the north complex, 24R and 24L, respectively. 25R will usually be used for emergency landings due to it's length and it is the busiest runway for takeoffs, I believe. Great video. Thanks for the information. Looking forward to the fuel dumping video. It's a bit of a controversy around these parts, currently.
parkburrets hello, yes ‘tight turns, not to be confused with LOCKED WHEEL TURNS, which destroyes, black top, CHEERS FROM NJ🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Great job of describing why the crew of 89H are performing the maneuvers that they did, i.e., the extra three minutes to get the airspeed down, etc. This does not come across by just listening to the ATC. Well done Juan!
Thanks Juan, you are the best! Looking forward to the next Segment
Thanks Juan. As a C-141 FE I have never had to actually dump fuel but of course in the Sim, it came up once in a while. I'm looking forward to the next video to see what went wrong because ATC was clearly thinking about landing weight and fuel jettisoning from the initial declaration of the emergency. I imagine they would have vectored them out over the water immediately had the pilot indicated that they needed to.
Thanks for making this video! Their seems to see so much misconception in the media!
And this Michigan Wolverine agrees with you!
"There"
Love these videos Juan. Good health to you.
LA kids parents: OMG...was the jet fuel gluten-free??
Haha sorry. Tasteless joke, I know...
More like
L.A. kids parents:my kids got a whiff of jet fuel that means I'm entitled to 458 trillion dollars in legal compensation. Im calling Larry H Parker.
Yes it was, however it is known by the state of California to cause cancer.
Tasteless jokes are what the masses tend to think humor is.
@@jiveturkey9993 surprised there wasn't an ambulance chase(r) plane.
I got in trouble at my auto parts job when I told a hesitant customer "It's gluton free..."
Juan, As usual you were right on it. Pilot said “No fuel dumping necessary.” I can’t wait for Part 2 to hear your explanation. Thanks again for your excellent reporting.
Blancolirio and VasAviation, best collaboration ever !
So good to always have honest, factual reporting from Juan (when it is his opinion he says so). Unlike news media and politicians spreading deceitful/fallacious information for the gullible. Best wishes for re-entry to his flying career.
Juan, I've noticed in other videos on VAS's channel, that when an emergency occurs certain places, the ATC communication with each other is much better than here in the states. Don't know why but I can think of a couple in particular, one in Australia somewhere, and the other was I believe Shannon in Ireland. Every time the aircraft got passed off to the next controller, that next controller would already have all the relevant info, and be ready, usually greeting the pilot with a brief acknowledgement of the issues he/she was already aware of, and then asking if the situation remained the same, or if any additional problems had arose since the last report on the previous frequency. Super quick, direct, to the point, and helpful to the pilots in the extreme. Could be workload related. But it would be interesting to see a direct comparison of say 50 emergencies with US controllers vs 50 with Euro controllers and note the differences.
The manner in which emergencies are declared are in stark contrast as well. I don't find the American way of "hiding" the emergency declaration in the middle of a sentence to be terribly efficient. To borrow a counterexample from a video you may have been thinking of, this is how Virgin Australia declared their PAN upon departure from Melbourne:
"Velocity 69, request descent to FL220. PAN-PAN, PAN-PAN, PAN-PAN due to possible fuel leak. We will be shutting down the right engine and commencing our return to Melbourne. POB is 113, no dangerous goods."
This was then also immediately explicitly acknowledged by the controller ("Velocity 69, roger PAN"), something I noticed was never done in this video.
thanks, Juan Browne! couldn’t wait for you to cover this! hearing it on kfi am 640. awaiting part 2.
Great job, between VAS and your channel i always feel very informed.
JuanB....Great analysis with your 777 insights....Thanking You fellow Luscombe Driver...!
Great job Juan. Thanks so much
Thank you for taking the time to do all this. Very informative every time I watch you.
Sounds to me like Juan should be in the upper echelon of the Fed. Aviation Admin. then maybe we might get some of this mess straightened out.
Or NTSB. To replace the showboating Jennifer Homendy.
walters49-- Can't see Juan as a career politician so he would not fit in at FAA HQ.
Yes I agree!!!
Juan - absolutely outstanding delivery for those of us wanting to learn more about aviation. Thanks SO much.
Asked him twice if he "needed to 'Hold' to dump fuel", nope just dumping as we go!
Exactly. The news is pushing the narrative that the pilots said they didn't need to dump at first.
That wasn't the case. They said they didn't need to hold.
They had one priority-put it on the deck, 10 minutes ago!
This seems to me, the prudent thing to do.
You have a problem with one engine. You don't yet know why.
Did you eat a bird and not see it?
Who knows?
There are pilots here who seem to be dismissing this possibility. The pilots obviously knew they could fly all day on one engine, but they were likely wondering about that remaining engine.
@@petec9686 The 777 is rated to fly for 2 FULL hours on a single engine to meet industry requirements for trans-oceanic flight. Worse case scenario here was that they would have to shut the engine down. This wasn't a time sensitive emergency nor does it excuse them dumping fuel over a population center at a much lower altitude than the minimum. The pilot was absolutely in wrong here.
@@etherealessence I understand it can fly for two hours. Hell, it could probably fly all the way to China on one if need be.
My question is pertaining to the other engine.
Until they know why they lost one during climb out, is there not a concern about the other?
What is the typical reason for such a problem shortly after takeoff? I would think some sort of FOD would be at the head of the list. If they lost it at 37K an hour into the flight, it would be a different story.
And if one engine has a FOD issue, I would guess there could be a problem with the other.
@@petec9686 none of that justifies the dumping of the fuel where they did and at the altitude they did it. Exactly none of it.
@@etherealessence so, taking it up higher and further away from the airport, when your remaining engine is suspect, is a better option than getting it back ASAP and landing? Because spritzing a few kids with jet-A is worse than risking a crash?
Sorry, I don't buy it.
IF the pilots could immediately diagnose the failure and rule out failure of the remaining engine, then certainly, take it up to 10K feet or so and dump away.
My question remains, which you ignored.
Could they make that diagnosis and have complete confidence in the remaining engine.
I haven't seen this topic addressed yet. All I keep hearing is that it can fly just fine on 1.
Very informative Clip - Thank you. Looking forward to seeing your upcoming in-depth analysis !
I think the cockpit crew of DL89 did a tremendous job.
Best regards from Austria...
Thanks Juan!! I’ve been watching Vasaviation and absolute love what he does. I could watch listen to it for hours. What a great perspective to have you break down from a pilots point of view. Since we don’t have audio from 124.9 is it possible the FO would have asked to dump fuel at such a low altitude since it was an emergency?
possible...but..."why?"
The only thing I can think of is that he was second guessing his first decision not to dump at the appropriate altitude because the flight crew was busy and they had the immediate situation under control. It wasn’t until short final that he thought he was too heavy and did it.
@@blancolirio could it have been an accidental fuel dump?
@@blancolirio exactly. I've got 15K hours and was an accident investigator in the USAF and for the life of me I don't know why they didn't go out over water and dump fuel. Unless it was something a lot more serious than a compressor stall. And keep in mind for such a long flight they should have had 2 IRO's on board who could have helped the PIC and SIC.
@@darrylr.4983 thats what i am thinking as well. There should be 4 pilots in the cockpit. The tone from the pilots dont feel to me this was an emergency. And you are telling me all 4 pilots agreed on a last min fuel dump over LA? Those kids should not have experienced getting hosed by jet fuel.
I saw this on the news tonight and immediately came to your channel. You do such a great job of breaking down what’s happening and why! Love your channel!
Juan, once again you explained things so a layman like me can understand what is happening. Being raised in LA, I have flown out of LAX many times on various airlines, depending on my destinations. The troubling things I have noticed in this presentation of yours is the lack of communications between controllers. If this was a catastrophic incident the flight crew would be too busy trying to get down without crashing. I know LAX is one of the busiest airports in the US, if not the world, and these pilots have their hands full and with so many other planes lined up to land, taking care of their issue and not colliding with another jet is quite a lot on their plate. I know you are going to talk about the jettison of fuel in your next chapter but why didn't the crew tell the ATC they were dumping fuel? Wouldn't they have been sent out over the Santa Monica Bay to do this? I can imagine Delta will be paying for some damages and the PR issues of dumping all of that fuel over neighborhoods and schools at such a low altitude.
I love VAS Aviation to hear the communications with good easy to understand visuals. Their channel goes along really well with yours when I'm trying to understand an incident
Thanks, Juan, for this detailed video of all that's involved with getting an aircraft with an emergent situation back down safely. As for the fuel dumping? Hmmm... look forward to your next video on that!
I was working on a house under the approach path of LAX that afternoon across from the new Rams stadium project. would like to have seen that one but I think it was before 3 pm when I started work there that day. I think I would have smelled it. The job is right across the street from a school but I think they were all done dumping by the time they were that close in to the airfield within a few miles east of the runway. After checking, I see I was under the approach path of 24R so I would not have received any raining fuel anyway. thanks for that report and using VASAviation's website ! Very good information naturally ! Even the other aviation channel on TH-cam spoke of lowering the landing weight. I am sure he'll see your video though and know for future reference.
Thank you! So difficult (impossible) for the MSM to say what you just did. With the decades of practice at reporting how can Jaun Brown do what they can't unless of course their incompetence is by design? I now understand what happened because of what you do so well.
russell3380 Try looking up the course requirements for a journalism degree. Guaranteed that they don’t cover how to read ATC screens or fly anything....especially a 777. Get over it and fix your expectations!
@@mangos2888 Mr. Directives you are entertaining.
Crisp clear...the uncola!!!
Thanks Juan. As always excellent coverage.🇬🇧
I was patiently waiting for this lol. I don’t even bother trying to find any other media source reporting on these topics.
Looking forward to the part 2
Juan, You probably already know that the Mentour Pilot channel praised Your efforts and commentary... Thank You for sharing Your knowledge...
As an air traffic controller for over 28 yrs, this is ridiculous. 9:50 into the video and the crew has been asked three times their fuel and souls on board and had to request RY25R twice. And it’s an emergency, just roll the equipment. ARFF likes the practice even if it ends up being a non-event. Which is what everyone wants.
there are a lot of new controllers that should not be controlling. a lot are babied through the training and some facilities don't have a loss of separation radar snitch like centers. just take a flight through joshua airspace.
Were they dumping the fuel for a while or was it only a short period? Maybe it was a late decision? It seemed like it was during that final approach.
I thought NextGen had a capability for a controller to tag this info. once against the aircraft for all to see. It is pretty embarrassing to hear it being asked multiple times.
“Ridiculous “ in my previous comment may be a poor choice of words. My comment wasn’t about each individual controller’s performance. The situation needed to be managed better by who was in charge at SOCAL TRACON. If subsequent controllers don’t know that emergency info had been received by the previous controllers, then of course, the will ask again. Quick communication between controllers or probably better yet between supervisor and next controller could have made it easier on everyone. No, I’m not in the Air Traffic Control hall of fame. Unless there’s a category for boneheaded mistakes.
Finally someone explained the term "heavy" ,I'm a nube and was curious. Love your channel. Keep them coming.
Thank you Juan! I will support vasaviation!
Thanks for all your hard work and efforts making these videos @blancolirio. So nice have factual straight information about all these different events.
Blancolirio, VASA & Agent Jay-Z = aviation trifecta. =] Appreciate all you guys.
Thanks for giving this report. Excellent information as always, Juan.
Next time you want to pause a video, you could simply press the spacebar... it’s a quicker way:) great video!
Doh! Great point. Would reduce clutter.
Wow. I watch the VAS Aviation videos all the time and they're great. But it was really helpful to have the pro commentary over the top this time. The clarification was very useful. Thanks! Looking forward to the next one about dropping fuel.
Awesome information Juan. Thanks
Part II up on Patreon now I'll have it live here this evening. Thanks for your support! Juan.
www.patreon.com/user?u=5295000
You interpreting and VAS aviation together 👌🙌🙌🙌
JB, you never disappoint. Can always count on you. Once I read the dumping news, I awaited your update. 2 things: R U back to work (sorry missed some of your videos) and 2: you're so professional and passionate, that I could just visualize you jumping into the laptop screen to take over. Lol. Stay well!
Pilot: *Says he doesn't need to dump fuel*
Also pilot: *Proceeds to dump fuel at low altitude over neighborhoods without informing ATC*
I think he can dump anytime, no need for permission because safety of souls is more important. So, when he ran the speeds he said dump it.
Hope we get the details soon, looking forward to part II.
Concur. He said he had the situation ( the compressor stall) under control. The initial controller asked if he wanted to go somewhere and dump fuel. Pilot said no. Not a good decision, and the FAA and the Air carriers are going to change the rules now...
BRUH DELTA
This is commonly referred to as....
"Monday morning quarterbacking"
Did not expect dumping to be necessary, got all dirtied up, normal operating engine was at max power, needed a bit more power from the troublesome engine to hold approach speed.
With just a little more power added to the stalling engine, compressor stalls returned.
At current weight, in approach configuration, need more power, or less weight, .....or will land short.
More power not available!
The ONLY answer:..... Less weight!
DUMP FUEL!!
No need to ask or inform anybody.........it IS a bona fide emergency!
Would i do the same?
You bet, if need be........31,000 hours retired 747-400 Capt.
Anxiously awaiting the next vid on fuel dumping. Fascinating!
I have a fuel dumping story. When I was 12 and lived in Montgomery County Maryland right outside of DC I was a little Aviation nut. it was June 14th 1979 (I looked it up)
I was outside playing we heard a super loud rumbling, look up, and at < 5000 feet the freaking Concorde flies right over my house with gear down and tons of what to me looked like smoke coming out of it. I went running inside and my mom asked what all the noise was. I told her. She had no clue what the Concorde was so I had to draw a picture for her. (our internet was down lol)
didn't hear about it on the radio. Had to wait till the paper came out the next day. It was pretty wicked for a little kid. It flew over my house definitely no higher than the Triple 7 in LA and I don't remember smelling any kerosene
Billy Andrews I live right next to Kennedy airport. We would watch the Concorde take off early in the morning. Miss that
The VAS aviation video is amazing, but for non-pilots, having your commentary on top of the VAS aviation video is even better. Perhaps you could do more collaborations in the future.
I just knew when I heard 777 on the news Juan would be all over it
Love the shared info and different thoughts and ideas shared between Vas and Peter along with you.
Talk about 3 pros delivering outstanding content.
One observation I made watching Vas aviations video when he posted it was the ATC coms after they declined fuel dump on the initial ask from ATC.
When they are closer to landing one of the pilots says his emergency again compressor stalls and then you hear a change in his voice during that same transmission towards the end as if the motor had another issue. That is where i am guessing the dump started could be wrong usually am