"When a pilot perishes in an aircraft accident, suddenly-in an instant-they’re gone. They blast a hole in the lives of spouses, children, grandchildren, and close friends that can never be filled by anyone else. The mourners learn to cope with the loss, but they never get over it. Our lives are just one of many influenced by the decisions we make in the cockpit, even when we fly solo." ~Authored by Richard McSpadden, AOPA magazine, June 23, 2023, less than 3 months before his death
Wow 😮 this will sound very selfish but I hope these family members know that we live and die by aviation and I would prefer to not be than to live with ought it. I know the family members or most understand it but some do not that when we go it is doing something that moves us with immense passion and fervor that to do otherwise would signify a slow death. My condolences to all the families
Declare early! You can always make the determination later that you no longer need the emergency status. There is nothing in the FAA regulations that require you to land after declaring an emergency. There is a huge stigma around declaring in the United States like somehow the pilot was somehow a failure. Declare! It puts you in the mindset that you're actually having a problem. If you solve the problem, as the pilot in command, you have the right to say this is no longer an emergency and I'm going to continue my flight. It may not be wise to do so, but it is legal.
The 177 crash is certainly a puzzling one. Having experience on the Lycoming IO-360 engines as an A&P mechanic, the report seems to have covered all aspects that could have led to a partial power loss. The engine stoppage at the holding point and subsequent restart makes me wonder if they had taxied out with the fuel cock in the off position or selected between two positions. Having remedied this possible scenario the engine was then restarted but there is the possibility of an air lock or trapped air in the pipelines from the selector to the fuel injector servo unit which through pure bad luck showed up as a partial power loss in the initial climb. There appears to be no mention in that initial report as to the position of the electric fuel pump switch, was that selected ON. This is an important point as the electric pump provides positive pressure to the engine driven pump and should have helped in preventing air locks caused by selector mismanagement. Though probably not relevant here, I never liked that idea of the single drive dual magnetos which always seemed to me to negate the basic principle of two entirely separate ignition systems.
With regards to the electric fuel pump - the report did state the position of the fuel pump switch could not be determined due to accident damage. The report mentions switches twice. Once in the beginning saying that the electrical and lighting switches were damaged by impact. Later, talking about the fuel system, it specifically states the fuel pump switch was also damaged by impact.
I'll never understand why the dual mag was ever approved by the FAA. This one is almost certainly fuel or air related but a single drive plastic gear? No-way!
Just like the 'B 40 Series' Pratt&Whittney R-2800 fitted with a similar single drive dual magneto by Bendix shaped like a tin of tuna chunks. In 1942-43 an RAF Vickers Warwick transport powered by B-43 Series R-2800,s was lost,. Cause of the accident engine failure , a neoprene bearing on the magneto drive shaft failed resulting in the timing of both magnetos slipping . As the Warwick,s Skipper attempted to dump fuel before returning to base on one engine, due to the mis matched timing, when feathering the affected engine, it backfired flames shooting from the exhaust to ignite the dumped fuel. In light of similar problems with 'B 40' Series R-2800,s Pratt&Whittney revised the ignition to a more reliable dual separate drives for both magnetos in the later 'C' Series R-2800, a far better engine.
@@stevespra1Note that the drive gear in that magneto is not plastic. The driven gears are, as they also are in (most or all?) Bendix and Slick mags. Also note that the Cardinal checklist does not suggest running the electric pump for takeoff, which may be different than some other aircraft. So if it had been on, that would have been a troubleshooting action.
Juan, although retired now, I had flown as a Captain on the 757/767 aircraft for about 17 years. Your description of the systems and the details you provide about this accident are spot on. Excellent, clear and accurate in every way. Your clear evaluation makes possible a clear understanding of exactly what happened that any pilot with even a mimimum of expereice would be capable of understanding what happened. Thanks for your excellent work once again.
Juan, it will be interesting to see who has been doing the checks on the 757. I flew freight in 727 and DC-8s for many years and the standing joke when we picked up an aircraft from "contract maintenance" was make sure you find all the things they broke or messed up. I could write a long book of examples. Some were minor and some were major. I landed at a remote airport in Florida one Saturday morning to be greeted by the Maintenance company's Chief Inspector. As the "kid" looked around the cockpit of our DC-8, he uttered, "God what a big airplane". Luckly we were airlined home for days off. The airplane was due out the next day but was delayed for three days to fix screwups.
The loss of Richard McSpadden was a vicious gut punch when I heard about it, and it still troubles me. I had so much respect for Richard and his high degree of aviation professionalism, and it reinforced the ugly truth that sometimes tragedy visits even the most competent pilots. Thanks for your insightful analysis.
The Bible says that "Time and unforeseen occur ancestors befall us all". This is true in life, and even more so in the lives of those who make their living in the air.
@@RowanHawkins But would he have let the pilot try to make 'The Impossible Turn'. If he did so, believing that he could guide the pilot on what to do, then he made a mistake..... If he took control and attempted to make the turn himself, then he made a mistake..... Hard to think that someone with his experience could make such a fundamental mistake.....but there you go. Looks like an over-confidence in his own abilities by Richard....when he should have gone straight ahead to seek a suitable landing area..... James Hennighan Yorkshire, England
@@jameshennighan8193 you’re missing the point that the engine malfunctioned prior to take off. Neither one of them had half a brain by taking off anyway. “Photo op all set up, gotta her ‘er done”. Not the most auspicious last words.
All my years, and hours in the piper Cherokees, I never had an engine failure on take off...or in flight. However watching these videos now-a-days is eye-opening...makes all off us pilots think twice and then some!
Thank you, Juan, for covering these two accidents. Great job by the 757 crew it sounds like. So sad, though, about the loss of Richard and his friend/ the other pilot.
Sure you are and I’m running for president if you get to a accident what you going to tell NTSB you use Juan videos for training they will lock you up so fast your head will swim
Hi, Juan The Richard McFadden accident made me cry. And with his TH-cam AOPA presence his persona is known by many and such tragedy for everybody. Condolences to the family. Very sorry.
Must have had great ILS slope reception sitting atop the antennas. Appears that the FedEx crew did everything right which is nice to see in any crash analysis. Good work as usual Juan. 😎
Hello Juan. I love your content. Just a comment about the FedEx incident. I’m a FAA tech in CHA. The aircraft did not impact the 20 localizer Antennas. It did take out runway 02 approach lights. In July a Mooney did take out the 02 localizer antenna array. No fatalities.
One thing to note about the high wing Cessna RGs is that when the gear first drops out, the mains are at a pretty good angle to the wind. This drag will cause a little pitch down and a noticeable amount of drag. I recall the 177 having pretty good visibility, but partial power, flaps 10, and gear down, it's not going to have a great glide path. If they were that close to making it, I would think they knew their angle wasn't getting them to the numbers and they'd want to leave all the drag put away and just belly land with flaps up. Lots of other factors for sure (including CRM dynamics), but this just seems like an impossible turn gone wrong to me.
@@hb-ol9oc Perhapsyou didn’t notice this report mentioning that the engine was having problems before they took off. I’ll say it again, cause I don’t think people are paying any attention to the hypocrisy and stupidity of these two. The engine was not functioning properly BEFORE they took off.
@@hb-ol9oc A C177 passenger is not a copilot. The bonehead owner was the pilot. Maybe taxi lean mixture made the Engine died on run up area when you put power to turn on taxiway. I have seen that a few times. Mc Spadden was put on the worst situation. Unknown airplane, Strong owner. Low LOTOT, he had to crash on trees or bit low turnback quick decision, Then the bonehead owner popped the gear out at low altitude too, on a runway on a hill with no overrun. DONT FLY WITH BONEHEADS..
Regarding the C-177's pre-flight momentary engine stoppage -- a thought: On taxiing out for TO at low power it is not unusual to aggressively lean the mixture to keep the spark plugs clean. If the pilot forgets that the mixture is aggressively leaned and proceeds with a pre-flight engine run-up/mag check then it is possible that the engine might shudder/stop due to the excessively lean mixture. The pilot usually realizes what has happened and enriches the mixture before proceeding. It is possible that the accident aircraft's engine stopped and the pilot then restarted the engine before TO.
Not only did the engine stop and then restart, it wasn’t running properly, according to observers, the whole way through. Q: Why did they take off with those engine issues? A: Got a chase playing in the air that’s costing money - let’s go get it done anyway.
Interestingly one of the FedEx people I spoke to confirmed what you said about how rare this accident was because they had no data on what would happen on a gear up landing.
Love your videos Blancolirio. Thank you for keeping us all updated. Just a note, I believe the Alternate Gear Extention motor is powered by the Hot Battery Bus....the motor pump will pressurize the liquid trapped on the hydraulic lines and release the gear up locks and the gear free falls. Interesting the NTSB found a "discontinuity" on that electrical wiring. :-( Good job Fedex Flight Crew.
Thank you very much for picking this Crashs up!. For the FedEx-757-Crew it was indeed a bad day in the office - but fortunately not more. Very professional and good work by all participants, allthough the picture of the Jumpseater rattling at the Doors is a little unvoluntarily funny to read. The Cessna-Crash is in opposite to this horrible and very sad. RIP. Hopefully the open Questions will be answered.
FedEx is going through some big changes. It has a head cutter CEO now and they are merging Ground and Express. They are laying off company employees across the nation for the cost saving Ground model of independent contractors. I noticed locally they subcontracted out their vehicle mechanics now rather than a company employee. I worked for FedEx for 30 years and it’s aircraft has always been top notch along with the pilots. Employees can no longer jump seat so most likely a flight crew member going to Memphis for another flight. This makes me wonder are they maybe cutting back on the flight mechanics. I’ve those pilots did a fantastic job!
This is the first channel I always turn to whenever I want to understand and learn about whatever airplane related incident I hear about. Thank you sir!
Very good details! Little add on: There is periodic checks for the alternate extension system on the 757 and dont forget any time you open the gear doors for maintenance you use the alternate extension system power pack to open the gear doors. Many airlines daily checks procedures are required for it for visual inspections of the wheel wells. I dont know.fedex daily check procedures. So I am very curious for the further findings.
Juan thanks for your videos. Love your objectiveness and how you stay out of the muddy pit & avoid responding to those below the waistline shots by you know who about a simple comment on McFadden’s initial accident report ! You don’t need to travel to every accident site , I’ll b always be waiting for your input as your opinion and conclusion always have more weight than all others TH-cam channels put together ! Keep up the good work and thanks for all you do for us aviators !
@@tyyamnitz8408 Dan Grinder called out Juan for incorrectly reporting at which end of the runway this plane crashed. Dan also said that the plane was returning with landing gear down and opined that the loss of speed may have been why the plane was low enough to hit the edge of the ravine rather than the runway or flat area past the ravine. It now looks like Dan also erred in stating the gear was down the whole time.
PLEASE BE NICE AND GIVE CREDIT WHERE DUE...DAN MENTIONED A REDUCED THRUST ON TAKEOFF WHICH WAS TRUE AND AIN'T ;;LOTOT'' BUT SURE THE SAME BEAST BUT THE BIG PICTURE IS REGARDING LIVING OR DEATH AND BACK TO....THE IMPOSSIBLE TURN.....DO YOU RECOMMEND IT OR DOES NOBODY LIVE TO TELL ABOUT IT.?
@@rationalist47 It's Dan *Gryder* and he and Juan have been pals. I don't think Juan takes any nitpicking seriously. Dan is just Dan and has a lot to offer as well, in his fashion.
Feel free to spell Dan's name any way you want, Mr. Winnercart. I think Grinder may have less to offer than you expect, since he owes a million dollar judgement in a defamation lawsuit based on claims he made in his youtube videos and elsewhere. I dispute your implication that I was nitpicking. I was just stating facts that I viewed on videos to answer someone's question. Why would I want to nitpick Grinder, when I am perfectly willing to call him seriously wrong. His honesty is something for courts to decide, for example, by finding against him in a defamation action. I realize though that someone who thinks himself more capable than the FBI because he solved the Dan Cooper hi-jacking mystery is obviously a superior intellect... at least in his own opinion. Juan Brown is very polite and has his own priorities, which don't seem to include getting bogged down in petty disputes, but I doubt he and Grinder are "pals." I have learned a few things watching Grinder but I have also become very skeptical of his pronouncements, as opposed to Blancolirio and Mentour who have earned my respect to the extent I find them trustworthy in general.
My dad told me it sounded like they had a complete loss of hydraulic system pressure and fluid on the 757. He had a complete Utility system (main system) hydraulic failure back in his C-130 days. The Boost system was fine (so they still had normal flight surface controls), but they had to manually lower the landing gear and crank down manually the flaps for landing. He put in 28 years and was an active flight engineer for 20 of those years, he has some stories to tell.
Left hyd sys dumped when the flex line blew and then the wire was broken to the alt gear ext power pack. The broken wire was in the forward avionics and the line that blew was in the wheel well
The 757 incident reminds me of UAL 232. A one in a million chance of a catastrophic triple system failure that just shouldn't have happened but some how did.
Good job by the FedEx pilots; bad job by the maintenance people. I discovered Richard thru his safety videos and really enjoyed watching them. He and Russ had tons of experience, but needed some luck. My heart is broken, as are their friends and families. Sad deal..
I think the contingency for the PTU is to power the system when a pump can't. Not much can be done when the fluid all leaks overboard. I always thought that alternate landing gear extension system on the 757 was a bit sketchy. Never understand the expectation of "trapped fluid". But interesting it was a wiring issue that caused that side of the problem. Ya, unlucky day. I'd love to hear more about how the aircraft handled presumably only with rudder to travel that far down the runway right on centerline. Kudos to the crew, ATC, responders, jump seater, and after the fact..... Juan!
So landing gear gravity fall was not possible because the faulty wiring of the door latch prevented its opening ? Am I right ? Obviously 3 electric latches (3 doors) did not open ?
@@philfrydman2576 not sure how to answer that. It’s been a while since I was on the 757/767. Could have been the pump or the switch was mis wired? I’d wait for the NTSB findings as I’d think that info would be in there. I’m no where as good as Juan when it comes to digging this detail crap outta things.
Russ played tight end at U. Oregon and went on to the NFL. RIP to my fellow Oregon Alum. "Between classes, he walked 8 miles from the University of Oregon campus to the Eugene airport, walked in and found some old timers willing to take him up in a plane for free."
I owned an Rg and you had to sump the wing drains good for water. Lift a wing wait and have your buddy sump it. It was amazing the water in each wing tank. Little bit of rain and especially if the fuel caps were the original old style water would be found. Also wonder if they check the fuel truck for water and if they got it fueled just before the incident. Great update thanks as always for your channel.
I flew a '75 fixed gear Cardinal for years and my drill for sumping the tanks was sump both wings, rock the wings vigorously, proceed with all the other ground pre-flight checks, then resump the tanks for any water or contaminants. Repeat until both sumps checked clear. We had the recessed fuel caps on our Cardinal and those were notorious for water leakage.
Goodday! As always, a very good, detailed and well explained report. Truly a mystery presently. A sad loss. Best Regards to you Juan and All. Thank You
Can’t wait to hear your thought on the pilot that tried to shut off the engines on a flight from Seattle to San Francisco 😮 As always, I really enjoy your content
Thanks Juan. That 757 was quite a headscratcher. In about 1991 we had a gear problem after a tyre failed catastrophically on takeoff in a 767-300. We didn’t raise the gear, but had unsafe indication and EICAS messages due to wiring damage. After a tower flyover to confirm gear was down, we landed without further incident. However amazingly it was a left rear outboard tyre that failed, yet the tread section went all the way forward to hit just under the left front door sill, then down under and dented the right engine cowl near the front just behind the anti ice section. We were VERY lucky that the tyre tread didn’t end up IN the right engine at full takeoff power- no derate as it was hot and we were at MTOW. As for the C177, why on earth would you put the gear down after an engine failure, before landing was assured? It makes no sense- there were plenty of other places to put the plane down. I feel this fatal accident need NOT have been a fatal. Sad.
Thanks for the commentary Juan. I was always a fan of the 757 partly because they were RR powered (my first job was in Derby and American was a huge client at the time. I smiled when I heard your report as I was a passenger of a Northwest 757 out of Detroit in the late 90s. It had to abort just before rotate. We slowly taxied back to jetway and I saw the pilot as we disembarked. He was ashen faced and when asked, he told me “total hydraulic failure”. From the terminal I could see fluid pouring from the wheel bay. I am convinced had he not aborted we would have crashed. 😮
Apparently the 177 drops like a rock….an oversight we don’t talk about enough in ga is type differences. No type rating required so perhaps sometimes we don’t do enough diligence in becoming proficient as much as we might need to be when things go wrong.
Not knowingwhat the life span of a B 757 is, everytime I hear 757 I remember the first time I was a passenger on one . Lot's of years ago. What a feeling . I called it the Corvette of aircraft. It could paste you into your seat. I just hate to see them end this way. Thankfully everyone is OK. Great reporting once again.
I'm not an aviator, far from it - just a simple pax; but we did EWR > DUB in under 5h30m on a B757 (must have picked up the Jetstream, I guess); since then, it's been my fav a/c.
Great stuff. I hate to hear it when very qualified people suffer from mechanical crashes of this nature. Or any nature for that matter. RIP To the Cardinal family’s and friends . Sorry boys we’ll see you in the sky soon. Fly on friends. Thanks Juan great reporting as usual.
Great analysis. Juan mentioned the prop control was in high RPM; correct for take-off. This is worth further discussion. If losing power, and trying to stretch a glide, pulling the prop control to LOW RPM can dramatically increase available glide distance, by reducing the drag from the windmilling prop. When flying an aircraft equipped with a constant speed prop, keep this in mind.
I'm surprised anyone ever goes to Australia after their unthinkable evils during the "scam". Even just for starters - setting aside for example the concentration camps for innocent citizens - how many thousands of dollars did they extort for quarantine (weeks in *expensive* hotels, right?)? I consider them the San Francisco of travel, and am always surprised anyone returns. (Unless work demands it, a la Juan, right?)
@@Bill_Woo As a pilot, I would go just for the money. 15 hours there plus coming back is a lot of hours and money, which means you can get your required flight hours per month quicker, meaning more home time and more money overall. Other than that, I agree, it's terrible.
@@Bill_Woo"unthinkable evils". You seriously need to get a grip. There were plenty of stupid decisions made here during covid. But we had a very low death rate and the majority of people were supported financially (thanks to our evil socialists!). So feel free to stay away, you and your attitude won't be missed.
I have seen two Lycoming IO-360s that failed due to the flexible compound lining of the fuel line that leads to the injector distributor deteriorating because it had been exposed to ambient air and "dried out", following extended maintenance. The tiny "rubber" particles caused one injector to hang in the "open" position, flooding that cylinder. On a 4 cylinder engine this gives you a partial engine failure, resulting in, not loosing 1/4th of your power, but HALF of your power. The flooded cylinder is not developing power, but is also robbing power, as the other 3 must fight against it every time the cylinder with the bad injector goes through the compression stroke. I've seen this on an AEIO-360 that had it's fuel line removed and set aside while the airframe was being repaired and an IO-360 that had it's fuel line left uncapped and "dry". Post crash investigation and experimentation demonstrated that the oxidation caused the lining material to deteriorate and precipitate into the fuel, after the fuel line had been put back into service. (It was my grandfather who cracked this case and demonstrated it to the NTSB guy, in the early 1980's.) Part 135 and 121 operators are required to replace flexible hoses every year, but that is not required for Part 91 operations. While we don't need any additional legislation, the community would be well served to follow the practices used by Part 135, 121 operations with regard to replacement of flexible fuel lines, especially after they have been allowed to "dry out" after having been used for even a short period of time.
I flew a 210 for many years, departing one day, the airplane just didn’t feel like it was producing the power that it should. The Tower called and said that I had black smoke trailing out the back of the airplane. Like you said, it was a partial loss of power. I climb straight ahead was able to get to 1000 feet to make it back to the airport and land. What the mechanic found is on my Vernier mixture control I had tightened it up and that was just enough to basically flood the engine at full power. The simple fix was to back it off. Just a slight turn. Great analysis as per usual.
What was the elevation of the field? Usually full rich is required to prevent predetonation, not being a mechanic I have wondered if there is an internal adjustment to make sure it doesn’t flood at sea level.
@@yuriys3164 it was at sea level, to be clear it was because when I turned it clockwise to “lock” it went past the limit which made it rich. It would not happen all of the time so the mechanic couldn’t duplicate. It happened again coming out of Addison and I “fixed” it by slightly backing out the mixture just a hair. It never happened again for the entire trip to California and back to Florida. When I told that to tech he explained it to me.
Stuff like this just re-enforces my belief that, sometimes, things just happen. We're human. So, when I hear someone say "All accidents are preventable" I shake my head. We should certainly attempt to prevent all conceivable accidents... But, sometimes... things just happen.
The report is clear that there was a partial power loss before take off but the take off was initiated anyway which means the accident was preventable but the crew chose to continue with a known problem.
Last night, JetBlue Flight 662 from Barbados to JFK tipped nose up as passengers were deplaning. How did/could have happened? Weight distribution to be THAT off to cause this. I hope to hear a hypothesis from you on this one. Crazy!
Appreciate your evaluation of these two crashes, Juan. Great job describing what is know vs. what is not known. Hope the FAA can fully figure these out.
I think Juan pointed out 2 contributing factors I don't see many of the comments focusing on. Higher density altitude and the tail wind. If the PF estimated his ability to return to the field based on their northbound flight performance, then a 7 knot headwind would become a 7 knot tailwind. A differential of 14 knots on an engine making partial power. There is a lot of discussion about engine out straight ahead...for not making the "impossible turn" this plane was not in a "normal" impossible turn scenario. The airport is on a plateau, so off the end of the runway was much lower terrain by about 300 feet. Under the stress I could see the pilot forgetting that the runway was closer to above in attempting the return. Likely they realized they wouldnt make the field before hand but no longer had the energy to turn away without stalling. Rich would have known that the potential stall was certain death so flying it all the way in was the only option. The only thing that also comes to mind is the low current hours on the type. 30 hrs in a year with no clue on how recent. No knowledge if the pilot did any adverse condition training to feel the handling characteristics in a partial power situation. Private Pilots need to considder off-airport away from people more often for survivable accidents.
Great job as usual Juan. The 177RG crash reminds me of an event that happened in June 1984 near Pell City, AL that involved my former CFI. Fortunately he and his passenger lived to tell about it but the NTSB found the cause as the accident was as follows: DURING THE TAKEOFF SEQUENCE, THE ALTERNATE AIR DOOR HINGE FAILED, ALLOWING THE DOOR TO SEPARATE AND PROGRESSIVELY BLOCK THE INDUCTION AIR SYSTEM TO THE POINT THAT INSUFFICIENT POWER WAS AVAILABLE TO SUSTAIN FURTHER FLIGHT. A FORCED LANDING WAS EFFECTED IN A COW PASTURE. THE ALTERNATE AIR DOOR IS NOT ACCESSIBLE FOR CONDITION INSPECTION UNDER ROUTINE PREFLIGHT PROCEDURES (COWLING REMOVAL REQUIRED). Considering everything else seems to check out okay, I have to wonder if this 177RG suffered a similar failure. Truly a terrible loss of two great individuals.
The PTU probably just ended up pumping the remaining fluid overboard. The aux system failure is odd. I wonder if aux extension was tested on the last C-check.
The aux sys power pack is the same unit that unlocks and lowers the gear doors for maintenance. If there had been any maintenance in the nose or main gear bays, it would have been evident that the aux power pack is inop and would have been addressed. Probably happened only a few days max before this particular flight
@@stay_at_home_astronaut I don’t think you understand. This is not an obscure system. It’s used sometimes weekly or daily by maintenance to open the gear doors for maintenance access. It also is used as alternate gear extension. It’s a dual-purpose system
@@rustyshackleford6476 true the aux system does open the doors on the ground but the power to run the pump for the aux gear extension comes on a different wire to the pump. That wire was broken.
@@doubletap800 thanks for the clarification. I was under the impression that the wire that was broken was for power rather than control. I should probably just read the discrepancy before commenting
Not knowing much about fuel injection systems, but if there is a "loose" fitting somewhere, might that allow for the introduction of air into the system? At least intermittently?
I agree, Jaun, that partial power loss can be more dangerous than complete power loss. Only one of my 13 engine failures was a partial, the O-235 in a pipeline 152 ate a valve. I felt I had sufficient power to continue a few miles on the pipeline to Duncan, Oklahoma. If terrain had not been favorable, I would had found a spot and landed. If the engine completely quit late for these guys, getting the wings level before touchdown is much more important than capturing the centerline extended. It is easy to catch a wire or obstruction with a down wing. Better to turn steeper than necessary early while releasing back pressure (stay at or near 1 g) rather than a shallow turn late held too near wires, obstructions, and terrain. Complete failure, while still low, is a much clearer problem. Use zoom reserve airspeed or potential energy of just a little altitude to maneuver to what will be a very apparent best place in the very near hemisphere. Best glide is a distraction. Turn as steep as necessary to go there while releasing back pressure to prevent stall (stay at 1 g), and yes, you will probably be high and fast to that site requiring full flaps and possibly full forward slip to make the beginning of the site. Trees or house?, use rudder only to put the nose between two wings level. Airspeed and ability to maneuver is life down low.
13 engine failures? Either you've got unbelievably bad luck, or you fly unbelievably badly maintained airplanes. Most career pilots never have a single engine failure.
Lowering the gear on the 177 id like throwing out an anchor momentarily. they produce a tremendous amount of drag due to the angle of the mains to the air-stream. Bad idea.
Thank you for another thoughtful video. As others have said, it was a real gut punch when Richard McSpadden was killed in this crash. The NTSB report doesn't say anything about him flying the take-off etc, but Dan Gryder says he was at the controls and he knows that is correct because he has inside information. I don't understand the discrepancy.
We had something happen the other day here in Pahrump Nevada. A commercial hot air balloon ride company giving a ride to people had someone jump out at 4000ft to commit suicide. Obviously the woman didn't survive but FAA responded but I don't know if NTSB did. It was quite the buzz for our small town here an hour west of Las Vegas NV. Another amazing episode of yours 👍 watching from Pahrump Nevada 🇺🇲
That is one hell of a couple of the last bucket list items to have a balloon and a skydive on the same flight... Just someone forgot to take their parachute. Of which the ballon pilot would have known that they might want to jump, but without the warning of a parachute he did not expect her to jump. Maybe what they need is a clear sign saying to all passengers " Please remain in the Basket at all times " and maybe also should be belted in...
@@terrancestodolka4829 Ya you would think like they would wear a harness or something like construction workers wear so they don't fall. I've never taken a ride in one so I don't know.
Juan - Pushin' 80 here, so thought I knew what the heartbreak of comin' up short was, but these guys in the C-177, really took it up the chute. Investigators will have to drill down, and then drill down again as 36.7 hrs before, it was runnin' fine before Major Overhauls took over. As in movie, "The Fugitive" there's something heinkie here too, as you suggest. Hopefully as with my Ole Buddy Harry in movie, if we can get the heinkie out, their souls may be set free!! RIP to the lost!!!
Incredible how much knowledge you and some others have on something that seems intricate to me. Ask me how to work on an old chevy truck, i could probably help, aircraft just not my Forte.
Man, that is just depressing. It sounds like Richard and Russ were so close to a much more survivable outcome. It doesn't sound like a smoking gun has been found yet for the power loss, but I hope that they may turn up something as the investigation continues.
HI Juan.. If you havent already, I was .Hoping that you will be producing a segment on Russ Francis's Death in that Cardinal. I was Shocked to hear about this. My Sibling knew him quite Well when we Lived IN Honolulu Back in the day where Russ was actually a Long time Hawaii Resident for a number of years.
If the gear had been left UP might they have cleared the hill and been able to do a wheels UP belly crash/landing or tried to deploy the gear AFTER clearing the hill. They only needed 15 feet more altitude (20 per Dan) to clear the hill so maybe the partially deployed landing gear dirted up the machine just enough to loose 15 feet of altitude? The impossible turn bit hard here.
Hello Juan. Watching the mlb playoffs, I see they have a camera in the bases…. Why isn’t there a cctv system on commercial aircraft showing flight surfaces/engines/landing gear so in case of an issue pilots can view what they are dealing with? Thanks
BTW and FYI regarding rebuilding damaged aircraft. As if today, 22 Oct 2023 that Alaska airlines 737 that busted its left landing gear on arrival at SNA is still sitting on the parking lot at the south end of the terminal.
From the report: "The throttle plate was found in the closed position. When the throttle arm was actuated manually, the throttle plate moved freely within the servo, but the threaded rod for the idle thumb screw adjustment was found fractured and not connected". If they believed the rod was fractured from impact damage, they would have stated that. The threaded rod in question is controlled by the throttle shaft and meters the quantity of fuel going to the spider. That it also contains the " idle thumb screw adjustment" is accurate but misleading. The assembly controls fuel to the spider based on the throttle position. It was disconnected. End of story.
Great use of a layover, Juan. Good report. Do you recall the sequence valve that could be installed backwards in the 727? Caused the left main to come through the top of the wing. I thought this might have happened to the 757. Thankfully not.
No matter how well trained and prepared one is, the element of surprise can be crippling both mentally and physically. I am not a pilot nor a doctor, but in my 73 years of life I’ve had a few surprises that could have been fatal. All this to say, we are human. Each person’s brain and body may respond differently in a “fight or flight” response to a situation even if intensely planned and trained for. Many a professional or expert in their field (pick any) has sadly paid the ultimate price when faced with a split second unexpected decision that must be made correctly. Train, practice, and prepare recognizing our human limitations. And foremost … remember there is a God who gave the gift of LIFE and holds our future in His hands. May He comfort the families of every downed pilot and passenger whose flight ends in tragedy. (Jeremiah 29:11) ✝️
If the engine actually quit while taxing, would think that a major red flag. Particularly for a new engine. Hard to believe two pilots of this experience level would just ignore a warning like that. Not sure anything else jumps out as an area to investigate. Tragic, hope the investigators can figure this out.
As noted in another comment - it could have been something simple like a mis-set fuel cock - a simple remedy, just flick the switch and re-start the engine, that could have unknowingly left an air bubble in the system.
@@00andJoe maybe, but not sure I’d buy into that possibility. The 177 is a high wing aircraft, with a both position for the fuel selector. If the fuel selector was in right or left the engine would run normally. Of course in off, the engine would not run, likely not even start. I’ve had a few students try to start 172s with a selector in off, and it never does. Looked at several 177 checklists, on line, and they all had the pilot check the fuel selector is on during preflight. None indicated the fuel selector should be placed in off after engine shutdown.
I lean my Cardinal aggressively on the ground after engine start to prevent oil plug fowling. Such extreme leaning will cause the engine to stumble or quit if I advance the power toward takeoff in the event I forget to go full rich before takeoff. I’ve had my engine quit twice while taxiing when I needed more power on the ground than I anticipated.
On the Cardinal accident, did anyone check the exhaust muffler for baffling breakdown? I had intermittent substantial power loss on an IO-320 due to blockage of the exhaust muffler exhaust port. Super Cubs have an AD Note for this same problem that requires a wire bale loop be installed to preclude blockage.
I appreciate your strictly FACTUAL reporting on these incidents. I'd prefer people follow your lead and gather all the FACTS before reporting on a probable cause.
I would like to know what was done to the EFI During the last major overhaul. Engine timing? Its real easy to strip out a stud, few hours later Snap. Its also real easy to point fingers when accidents happen too!
Regarding the McSpadden crash, @14:00, "the engine had 36.7 hours since major overhaul". Could be a clue. Engine overhauls involve complex hand labor and any mistakes typically manifest during the first 100 hours of operation. 36.7 hours is just long enough for improperly assembled or torqued parts to vibrate loose.
Initially it seemed like a stall/spin during an impossible turn attempt after engine failure. At least it wasn't that but they went a long way north trying to complete the mission with an engine problem. It also seems that they might have made it had they left the gear up and throttle full. All-in-all a very sad day. Our prayers are with the families of these two accomplished airmen.
"When a pilot perishes in an aircraft accident, suddenly-in an instant-they’re gone. They blast a hole in the lives of spouses, children, grandchildren, and close friends that can never be filled by anyone else. The mourners learn to cope with the loss, but they never get over it. Our lives are just one of many influenced by the decisions we make in the cockpit, even when we fly solo."
~Authored by Richard McSpadden, AOPA magazine, June 23, 2023, less than 3 months before his death
It wasn't meant to be prophetic, but it was.
It was also very well said.
@-blancolirio-_ search for this-- JetBlue airplane tips backwards during deboarding.
Words to live and/or die by…
Many good CFI's have been killed by bad pilots. MacSpadden is one the dozen this year.
Wow 😮 this will sound very selfish but I hope these family members know that we live and die by aviation and I would prefer to not be than to live with ought it.
I know the family members or most understand it but some do not that when we go it is doing something that moves us with immense passion and fervor that to do otherwise would signify a slow death.
My condolences to all the families
I love how Juan always says "Affiliate Office" with a straight face 😊
You noticed that, did you?
Ambulance chaser extraordinaire.
Always happy to make an income off of deaths. I hate that I give him views.
@@mikeyalwayslikesitI have a suggestion man, stop watching his videos.
@@mikeyalwayslikesitthere’s a simple solution to that.
@@mikeyalwayslikesit How so?
Long time FedEx Pilot here Juan, you do a great job. Our guys made the best of a bad situation.
Why did the ATC controller have to declare the emergency for them? Why were they reluctant to do it them selves?
Declare early! You can always make the determination later that you no longer need the emergency status. There is nothing in the FAA regulations that require you to land after declaring an emergency.
There is a huge stigma around declaring in the United States like somehow the pilot was somehow a failure.
Declare! It puts you in the mindset that you're actually having a problem. If you solve the problem, as the pilot in command, you have the right to say this is no longer an emergency and I'm going to continue my flight. It may not be wise to do so, but it is legal.
The 177 crash is certainly a puzzling one. Having experience on the Lycoming IO-360 engines as an A&P mechanic, the report seems to have covered all aspects that could have led to a partial power loss. The engine stoppage at the holding point and subsequent restart makes me wonder if they had taxied out with the fuel cock in the off position or selected between two positions. Having remedied this possible scenario the engine was then restarted but there is the possibility of an air lock or trapped air in the pipelines from the selector to the fuel injector servo unit which through pure bad luck showed up as a partial power loss in the initial climb. There appears to be no mention in that initial report as to the position of the electric fuel pump switch, was that selected ON. This is an important point as the electric pump provides positive pressure to the engine driven pump and should have helped in preventing air locks caused by selector mismanagement. Though probably not relevant here, I never liked that idea of the single drive dual magnetos which always seemed to me to negate the basic principle of two entirely separate ignition systems.
With regards to the electric fuel pump - the report did state the position of the fuel pump switch could not be determined due to accident damage.
The report mentions switches twice. Once in the beginning saying that the electrical and lighting switches were damaged by impact. Later, talking about the fuel system, it specifically states the fuel pump switch was also damaged by impact.
I'll never understand why the dual mag was ever approved by the FAA. This one is almost certainly fuel or air related but a single drive plastic gear? No-way!
Just like the 'B 40 Series' Pratt&Whittney R-2800 fitted with a similar single drive dual magneto by Bendix shaped like a tin of tuna chunks. In 1942-43 an RAF Vickers Warwick transport powered by B-43 Series R-2800,s was lost,. Cause of the accident engine failure , a neoprene bearing on the magneto drive shaft failed resulting in the timing of both magnetos slipping . As the Warwick,s Skipper attempted to dump fuel before returning to base on one engine, due to the mis matched timing, when feathering the affected engine, it backfired flames shooting from the exhaust to ignite the dumped fuel. In light of similar problems with 'B 40' Series R-2800,s Pratt&Whittney revised the ignition to a more reliable dual separate drives for both magnetos in the later 'C' Series R-2800, a far better engine.
@@stevespra1Note that the drive gear in that magneto is not plastic. The driven gears are, as they also are in (most or all?) Bendix and Slick mags.
Also note that the Cardinal checklist does not suggest running the electric pump for takeoff, which may be different than some other aircraft. So if it had been on, that would have been a troubleshooting action.
@@basiltaylor8910ignition timing on an engine certainly would reduce its power.
Juan, although retired now, I had flown as a Captain on the 757/767 aircraft for about 17 years. Your description of the systems and the details you provide about this accident are spot on. Excellent, clear and accurate in every way. Your clear evaluation makes possible a clear understanding of exactly what happened that any pilot with even a mimimum of expereice would be capable of understanding what happened. Thanks for your excellent work once again.
Juan, it will be interesting to see who has been doing the checks on the 757. I flew freight in 727 and DC-8s for many years and the standing joke when we picked up an aircraft from "contract maintenance" was make sure you find all the things they broke or messed up. I could write a long book of examples. Some were minor and some were major. I landed at a remote airport in Florida one Saturday morning to be greeted by the Maintenance company's Chief Inspector. As the "kid" looked around the cockpit of our DC-8, he uttered, "God what a big airplane". Luckly we were airlined home for days off. The airplane was due out the next day but was delayed for three days to fix screwups.
Seems like the kid did their job. Human failure is inevitable, but we can do our best to catch it
May God comfort the McSpadden and Francis families. My sincerest condolences. Thank you Juan for your analysis.
The loss of Richard McSpadden was a vicious gut punch when I heard about it, and it still troubles me. I had so much respect for Richard and his high degree of aviation professionalism, and it reinforced the ugly truth that sometimes tragedy visits even the most competent pilots. Thanks for your insightful analysis.
Richard was not the pilot.
The Bible says that "Time and unforeseen occur ancestors befall us all". This is true in life, and even more so in the lives of those who make their living in the air.
@@RowanHawkins
But would he have let the pilot try to make 'The Impossible Turn'.
If he did so, believing that he could guide the pilot on what to do, then he made a mistake.....
If he took control and attempted to make the turn himself, then he made a mistake.....
Hard to think that someone with his experience could make such a fundamental mistake.....but there you go.
Looks like an over-confidence in his own abilities by Richard....when he should have gone straight ahead to seek a suitable landing area.....
James Hennighan
Yorkshire, England
@@jameshennighan8193 you’re missing the point that the engine malfunctioned prior to take off. Neither one of them had half a brain by taking off anyway. “Photo op all set up, gotta her ‘er done”. Not the most auspicious last words.
@@catherinenelson4162 If that is what the bible says, whoever wrote it didn't spend much time in grammar school.
All my years, and hours in the piper Cherokees, I never had an engine failure on take off...or in flight. However watching these videos now-a-days is eye-opening...makes all off us pilots think twice and then some!
Thank you, Juan, for covering these two accidents. Great job by the 757 crew it sounds like. So sad, though, about the loss of Richard and his friend/ the other pilot.
As a 767 Checkpilot, I'll be using another one of Juan's videos for training! Thank you again!
Sure you are and I’m running for president if you get to a accident what you going to tell NTSB you use Juan videos for training they will lock you up so fast your head will swim
Hi, Juan The Richard McFadden accident made me cry. And with his TH-cam AOPA presence his persona is known by many and such tragedy for everybody. Condolences to the family. Very sorry.
Same here. It was really hard for me to accept the loss of Richard McSpadden. Tragic for all.
I received my AOPA magazine a few days after the crash. It saddened me when I read Richards articles, my condolences to the two mens families.
Must have had great ILS slope reception sitting atop the antennas. Appears that the FedEx crew did everything right which is nice to see in any crash analysis. Good work as usual Juan. 😎
Hello Juan. I love your content. Just a comment about the FedEx incident. I’m a FAA tech in CHA. The aircraft did not impact the 20 localizer Antennas. It did take out runway 02 approach lights. In July a Mooney did take out the 02 localizer antenna array. No fatalities.
One thing to note about the high wing Cessna RGs is that when the gear first drops out, the mains are at a pretty good angle to the wind. This drag will cause a little pitch down and a noticeable amount of drag. I recall the 177 having pretty good visibility, but partial power, flaps 10, and gear down, it's not going to have a great glide path. If they were that close to making it, I would think they knew their angle wasn't getting them to the numbers and they'd want to leave all the drag put away and just belly land with flaps up. Lots of other factors for sure (including CRM dynamics), but this just seems like an impossible turn gone wrong to me.
I bet the owner lowered the gear even if they were going low. Big pilot error. MacSpadden would not make such a stupid pilot error.
@@outwiththem But he was the copilot, why he aloud the pilot to make such a mistake ?
@@hb-ol9oc Perhapsyou didn’t notice this report mentioning that the engine was having problems before they took off. I’ll say it again, cause I don’t think people are paying any attention to the hypocrisy and stupidity of these two. The engine was not functioning properly BEFORE they took off.
@@sethtenrec Great point.
@@hb-ol9oc A C177 passenger is not a copilot. The bonehead owner was the pilot. Maybe taxi lean mixture made the Engine died on run up area when you put power to turn on taxiway. I have seen that a few times.
Mc Spadden was put on the worst situation. Unknown airplane, Strong owner. Low LOTOT, he had to crash on trees or bit low turnback quick decision, Then the bonehead owner popped the gear out at low altitude too, on a runway on a hill with no overrun. DONT FLY WITH BONEHEADS..
Regarding the C-177's pre-flight momentary engine stoppage -- a thought: On taxiing out for TO at low power it is not unusual to aggressively lean the mixture to keep the spark plugs clean. If the pilot forgets that the mixture is aggressively leaned and proceeds with a pre-flight engine run-up/mag check then it is possible that the engine might shudder/stop due to the excessively lean mixture. The pilot usually realizes what has happened and enriches the mixture before proceeding. It is possible that the accident aircraft's engine stopped and the pilot then restarted the engine before TO.
Not only did the engine stop and then restart, it wasn’t running properly, according to observers, the whole way through.
Q: Why did they take off with those engine issues?
A: Got a chase playing in the air that’s costing money - let’s go get it done anyway.
Interestingly one of the FedEx people I spoke to confirmed what you said about how rare this accident was because they had no data on what would happen on a gear up landing.
Thank you for sharing how detailed such accident analysis are. I was very impressed at all the effort put into such things.
Love your videos Blancolirio. Thank you for keeping us all updated. Just a note, I believe the Alternate Gear Extention motor is powered by the Hot Battery Bus....the motor pump will pressurize the liquid trapped on the hydraulic lines and release the gear up locks and the gear free falls. Interesting the NTSB found a "discontinuity" on that electrical wiring. :-( Good job Fedex Flight Crew.
Thank you very much for picking this Crashs up!. For the FedEx-757-Crew it was indeed a bad day in the office - but fortunately not more. Very professional and good work by all participants, allthough the picture of the Jumpseater rattling at the Doors is a little unvoluntarily funny to read.
The Cessna-Crash is in opposite to this horrible and very sad. RIP. Hopefully the open Questions will be answered.
FedEx is going through some big changes. It has a head cutter CEO now and they are merging Ground and Express. They are laying off company employees across the nation for the cost saving Ground model of independent contractors. I noticed locally they subcontracted out their vehicle mechanics now rather than a company employee. I worked for FedEx for 30 years and it’s aircraft has always been top notch along with the pilots. Employees can no longer jump seat so most likely a flight crew member going to Memphis for another flight. This makes me wonder are they maybe cutting back on the flight mechanics. I’ve those pilots did a fantastic job!
This is the first channel I always turn to whenever I want to understand and learn about whatever airplane related incident I hear about. Thank you sir!
Very good details!
Little add on:
There is periodic checks for the alternate extension system on the 757 and dont forget any time you open the gear doors for maintenance you use the alternate extension system power pack to open the gear doors. Many airlines daily checks procedures are required for it for visual inspections of the wheel wells. I dont know.fedex daily check procedures. So I am very curious for the further findings.
Thanks for your detailed analysis and interpretation of the report. Your knowledge adds very much to your presentation.
Juan thanks for your videos. Love your objectiveness and how you stay out of the muddy pit & avoid responding to those below the waistline shots by you know who about a simple comment on McFadden’s initial accident report ! You don’t need to travel to every accident site , I’ll b always be waiting for your input as your opinion and conclusion always have more weight than all others TH-cam channels put together ! Keep up the good work and thanks for all you do for us aviators !
What is the drama going on?
@@tyyamnitz8408 Dan Grinder called out Juan for incorrectly reporting at which end of the runway this plane crashed. Dan also said that the plane was returning with landing gear down and opined that the loss of speed may have been why the plane was low enough to hit the edge of the ravine rather than the runway or flat area past the ravine. It now looks like Dan also erred in stating the gear was down the whole time.
PLEASE BE NICE AND GIVE CREDIT WHERE DUE...DAN MENTIONED A REDUCED THRUST ON TAKEOFF WHICH WAS TRUE AND AIN'T ;;LOTOT'' BUT SURE THE SAME BEAST BUT THE BIG PICTURE IS REGARDING LIVING OR DEATH AND BACK TO....THE IMPOSSIBLE TURN.....DO YOU RECOMMEND IT OR DOES NOBODY LIVE TO TELL ABOUT IT.?
@@rationalist47 It's Dan *Gryder* and he and Juan have been pals. I don't think Juan takes any nitpicking seriously. Dan is just Dan and has a lot to offer as well, in his fashion.
Feel free to spell Dan's name any way you want, Mr. Winnercart. I think Grinder may have less to offer than you expect, since he owes a million dollar judgement in a defamation lawsuit based on claims he made in his youtube videos and elsewhere. I dispute your implication that I was nitpicking. I was just stating facts that I viewed on videos to answer someone's question. Why would I want to nitpick Grinder, when I am perfectly willing to call him seriously wrong. His honesty is something for courts to decide, for example, by finding against him in a defamation action. I realize though that someone who thinks himself more capable than the FBI because he solved the Dan Cooper hi-jacking mystery is obviously a superior intellect... at least in his own opinion. Juan Brown is very polite and has his own priorities, which don't seem to include getting bogged down in petty disputes, but I doubt he and Grinder are "pals." I have learned a few things watching Grinder but I have also become very skeptical of his pronouncements, as opposed to Blancolirio and Mentour who have earned my respect to the extent I find them trustworthy in general.
Thanks!
Excellent forensics. Note he does not postulate beyond the available evidence. He is a pro.
My dad told me it sounded like they had a complete loss of hydraulic system pressure and fluid on the 757. He had a complete Utility system (main system) hydraulic failure back in his C-130 days. The Boost system was fine (so they still had normal flight surface controls), but they had to manually lower the landing gear and crank down manually the flaps for landing. He put in 28 years and was an active flight engineer for 20 of those years, he has some stories to tell.
People love aviation stories. Get him to write a book.
I heard if the C130 wasn't dripping hydraulic fluid somewhere, it was really bad because that meant you had no more fluid LOL
Left hyd sys dumped when the flex line blew and then the wire was broken to the alt gear ext power pack. The broken wire was in the forward avionics and the line that blew was in the wheel well
Nice report, very unlikely that a three time redundancy wasn‘t enough. Just thought of the LOT 767 in Warsaw.
This must be the most thorough preliminary report EVER.
An unusual amount of detail for a prelim report.
@-blancolirio-_ Is this you Juan?
@@montyjohnson4741troll or scammer
@@montyjohnson4741 fake Juan
The 757 incident reminds me of UAL 232. A one in a million chance of a catastrophic triple system failure that just shouldn't have happened but some how did.
Good job by the FedEx pilots; bad job by the maintenance people. I discovered Richard thru his safety videos and really enjoyed watching them. He and Russ had tons of experience, but needed some luck. My heart is broken, as are their friends and families. Sad deal..
I think the contingency for the PTU is to power the system when a pump can't. Not much can be done when the fluid all leaks overboard. I always thought that alternate landing gear extension system on the 757 was a bit sketchy. Never understand the expectation of "trapped fluid". But interesting it was a wiring issue that caused that side of the problem. Ya, unlucky day. I'd love to hear more about how the aircraft handled presumably only with rudder to travel that far down the runway right on centerline. Kudos to the crew, ATC, responders, jump seater, and after the fact..... Juan!
So landing gear gravity fall was not possible because the faulty wiring of the door latch prevented its opening ? Am I right ? Obviously 3 electric latches (3 doors) did not open ?
@@philfrydman2576 not sure how to answer that. It’s been a while since I was on the 757/767. Could have been the pump or the switch was mis wired? I’d wait for the NTSB findings as I’d think that info would be in there. I’m no where as good as Juan when it comes to digging this detail crap outta things.
Russ played tight end at U. Oregon and went on to the NFL. RIP to my fellow Oregon Alum.
"Between classes, he walked 8 miles from the University of Oregon campus to the Eugene airport, walked in and found some old timers willing to take him up in a plane for free."
I owned an Rg and you had to sump the wing drains good for water. Lift a wing wait and have your buddy sump it. It was amazing the water in each wing tank. Little bit of rain and especially if the fuel caps were the original old style water would be found. Also wonder if they check the fuel truck for water and if they got it fueled just before the incident. Great update thanks as always for your channel.
I flew a '75 fixed gear Cardinal for years and my drill for sumping the tanks was sump both wings, rock the wings vigorously, proceed with all the other ground pre-flight checks, then resump the tanks for any water or contaminants. Repeat until both sumps checked clear. We had the recessed fuel caps on our Cardinal and those were notorious for water leakage.
Goodday! As always, a very good, detailed and well explained report. Truly a mystery presently. A sad loss. Best Regards to you Juan and All. Thank You
Can’t wait to hear your thought on the pilot that tried to shut off the engines on a flight from Seattle to San Francisco 😮
As always, I really enjoy your content
Sad to hear again about the Cessna crash, but I am glad that they are doing a full investigation. Thanks for sharing the details.
Thanks Juan. That 757 was quite a headscratcher.
In about 1991 we had a gear problem after a tyre failed catastrophically on takeoff in a 767-300. We didn’t raise the gear, but had unsafe indication and EICAS messages due to wiring damage. After a tower flyover to confirm gear was down, we landed without further incident. However amazingly it was a left rear outboard tyre that failed, yet the tread section went all the way forward to hit just under the left front door sill, then down under and dented the right engine cowl near the front just behind the anti ice section. We were VERY lucky that the tyre tread didn’t end up IN the right engine at full takeoff power- no derate as it was hot and we were at MTOW.
As for the C177, why on earth would you put the gear down after an engine failure, before landing was assured? It makes no sense- there were plenty of other places to put the plane down. I feel this fatal accident need NOT have been a fatal. Sad.
Thanks for the commentary Juan. I was always a fan of the 757 partly because they were RR powered (my first job was in Derby and American was a huge client at the time. I smiled when I heard your report as I was a passenger of a Northwest 757 out of Detroit in the late 90s. It had to abort just before rotate. We slowly taxied back to jetway and I saw the pilot as we disembarked. He was ashen faced and when asked, he told me “total hydraulic failure”. From the terminal I could see fluid pouring from the wheel bay. I am convinced had he not aborted we would have crashed. 😮
Thank You Jaun for an objective technical analysis.
Apparently the 177 drops like a rock….an oversight we don’t talk about enough in ga is type differences. No type rating required so perhaps sometimes we don’t do enough diligence in becoming proficient as much as we might need to be when things go wrong.
Spad was our F15 West demo pilot at Holloman AFB in 1990.
Not knowingwhat the life span of a B 757 is, everytime I hear 757 I remember the first time I was a passenger on one . Lot's of years ago. What a feeling . I called it the Corvette of aircraft. It could paste you into your seat. I just hate to see them end this way. Thankfully everyone is OK. Great reporting once again.
N977FD FEDEX EXPRESS BOEING 757-236(SF)
Almost 36 years old
First Flight 1 Jan 1988
Wow time sure does fly. No pun intended. Thanks for that. Do you know how many cycles?
@-blancolirio-_ you no longer surprise me Juan You are a true professional.
757. My favorite plane. Great performance, responsive controls. Good in & out of short fields, like SNA.
I'm not an aviator, far from it - just a simple pax;
but we did EWR > DUB in under 5h30m on a B757
(must have picked up the Jetstream, I guess); since then, it's been my fav a/c.
Juan- checkout the cessa caravan eng. failure in Oz last week. 17 onboard. A model landing very soon after take off.
Juan does a good job of describing the mechanical findings. Probably cause does a good job on how to prevent the accident.
Great stuff. I hate to hear it when very qualified people suffer from mechanical crashes of this nature. Or any nature for that matter. RIP To the Cardinal family’s and friends . Sorry boys we’ll see you in the sky soon. Fly on friends.
Thanks Juan great reporting as usual.
Great analysis. Juan mentioned the prop control was in high RPM; correct for take-off. This is worth further discussion. If losing power, and trying to stretch a glide, pulling the prop control to LOW RPM can dramatically increase available glide distance, by reducing the drag from the windmilling prop. When flying an aircraft equipped with a constant speed prop, keep this in mind.
Glad Sydney is hosting an affiliate office for the Blancolirio Channel. Advance, Australia fair!
I'm surprised anyone ever goes to Australia after their unthinkable evils during the "scam". Even just for starters - setting aside for example the concentration camps for innocent citizens - how many thousands of dollars did they extort for quarantine (weeks in *expensive* hotels, right?)? I consider them the San Francisco of travel, and am always surprised anyone returns. (Unless work demands it, a la Juan, right?)
@@Bill_Woo wait, I’m lost. Agreed they showed their police state nature during Covid but SF is a gem, isn’t that a good thing??
@@Bill_Woo As a pilot, I would go just for the money. 15 hours there plus coming back is a lot of hours and money, which means you can get your required flight hours per month quicker, meaning more home time and more money overall. Other than that, I agree, it's terrible.
You’re welcome to continue to not travel. You’ll definitely be missed 😂
@@Bill_Woo"unthinkable evils". You seriously need to get a grip. There were plenty of stupid decisions made here during covid. But we had a very low death rate and the majority of people were supported financially (thanks to our evil socialists!). So feel free to stay away, you and your attitude won't be missed.
I have seen two Lycoming IO-360s that failed due to the flexible compound lining of the fuel line that leads to the injector distributor deteriorating because it had been exposed to ambient air and "dried out", following extended maintenance. The tiny "rubber" particles caused one injector to hang in the "open" position, flooding that cylinder. On a 4 cylinder engine this gives you a partial engine failure, resulting in, not loosing 1/4th of your power, but HALF of your power. The flooded cylinder is not developing power, but is also robbing power, as the other 3 must fight against it every time the cylinder with the bad injector goes through the compression stroke.
I've seen this on an AEIO-360 that had it's fuel line removed and set aside while the airframe was being repaired and an IO-360 that had it's fuel line left uncapped and "dry". Post crash investigation and experimentation demonstrated that the oxidation caused the lining material to deteriorate and precipitate into the fuel, after the fuel line had been put back into service. (It was my grandfather who cracked this case and demonstrated it to the NTSB guy, in the early 1980's.)
Part 135 and 121 operators are required to replace flexible hoses every year, but that is not required for Part 91 operations. While we don't need any additional legislation, the community would be well served to follow the practices used by Part 135, 121 operations with regard to replacement of flexible fuel lines, especially after they have been allowed to "dry out" after having been used for even a short period of time.
I flew a 210 for many years, departing one day, the airplane just didn’t feel like it was producing the power that it should. The Tower called and said that I had black smoke trailing out the back of the airplane. Like you said, it was a partial loss of power. I climb straight ahead was able to get to 1000 feet to make it back to the airport and land. What the mechanic found is on my Vernier mixture control I had tightened it up and that was just enough to basically flood the engine at full power. The simple fix was to back it off. Just a slight turn. Great analysis as per usual.
What was the elevation of the field? Usually full rich is required to prevent predetonation, not being a mechanic I have wondered if there is an internal adjustment to make sure it doesn’t flood at sea level.
@@yuriys3164 it was at sea level, to be clear it was because when I turned it clockwise to “lock” it went past the limit which made it rich. It would not happen all of the time so the mechanic couldn’t duplicate. It happened again coming out of Addison and I “fixed” it by slightly backing out the mixture just a hair. It never happened again for the entire trip to California and back to Florida. When I told that to tech he explained it to me.
@@yuriys3164 to clarify it was going more than full.
That makes more sense!
Stuff like this just re-enforces my belief that, sometimes, things just happen.
We're human.
So, when I hear someone say "All accidents are preventable" I shake my head.
We should certainly attempt to prevent all conceivable accidents... But, sometimes... things just happen.
There's a reason for everything. The reason for this just hasn't been discovered yet.
The report is clear that there was a partial power loss before take off but the take off was initiated anyway which means the accident was preventable but the crew chose to continue with a known problem.
What a tragic loss. May their memory be eternal 😔
Last night, JetBlue Flight 662 from Barbados to JFK tipped nose up as passengers were deplaning. How did/could have happened? Weight distribution to be THAT off to cause this. I hope to hear a hypothesis from you on this one. Crazy!
Appreciate your evaluation of these two crashes, Juan. Great job describing what is know vs. what is not known. Hope the FAA can fully figure these out.
Looks nice at the Sydney affiliate office. Nice video Juan. Have an uneventful flight home.
0:00 Intro
0:37 Fed Ex 757
8:42 Francis/McSpadden C-177 RG
Wow. Nice presentation Juan
I think Juan pointed out 2 contributing factors I don't see many of the comments focusing on. Higher density altitude and the tail wind. If the PF estimated his ability to return to the field based on their northbound flight performance, then a 7 knot headwind would become a 7 knot tailwind. A differential of 14 knots on an engine making partial power.
There is a lot of discussion about engine out straight ahead...for not making the "impossible turn" this plane was not in a "normal" impossible turn scenario. The airport is on a plateau, so off the end of the runway was much lower terrain by about 300 feet. Under the stress I could see the pilot forgetting that the runway was closer to above in attempting the return. Likely they realized they wouldnt make the field before hand but no longer had the energy to turn away without stalling. Rich would have known that the potential stall was certain death so flying it all the way in was the only option.
The only thing that also comes to mind is the low current hours on the type. 30 hrs in a year with no clue on how recent. No knowledge if the pilot did any adverse condition training to feel the handling characteristics in a partial power situation. Private Pilots need to considder off-airport away from people more often for survivable accidents.
Excellent video. from a Patreon supporter. Thank you for posting!
Great job as usual Juan. The 177RG crash reminds me of an event that happened in June 1984 near Pell City, AL that involved my former CFI. Fortunately he and his passenger lived to tell about it but the NTSB found the cause as the accident was as follows:
DURING THE TAKEOFF SEQUENCE, THE ALTERNATE AIR DOOR HINGE FAILED, ALLOWING THE DOOR TO SEPARATE AND PROGRESSIVELY BLOCK THE INDUCTION AIR SYSTEM TO THE POINT THAT INSUFFICIENT POWER WAS AVAILABLE TO SUSTAIN FURTHER FLIGHT. A FORCED LANDING WAS EFFECTED IN A COW PASTURE. THE ALTERNATE AIR DOOR IS NOT ACCESSIBLE FOR CONDITION INSPECTION UNDER ROUTINE PREFLIGHT PROCEDURES (COWLING REMOVAL REQUIRED).
Considering everything else seems to check out okay, I have to wonder if this 177RG suffered a similar failure. Truly a terrible loss of two great individuals.
The PTU probably just ended up pumping the remaining fluid overboard. The aux system failure is odd. I wonder if aux extension was tested on the last C-check.
The aux sys power pack is the same unit that unlocks and lowers the gear doors for maintenance. If there had been any maintenance in the nose or main gear bays, it would have been evident that the aux power pack is inop and would have been addressed. Probably happened only a few days max before this particular flight
Sharp pencils make quick work of testing obscure-aux-systems during C checks, especially on freighters...
@@stay_at_home_astronaut I don’t think you understand. This is not an obscure system. It’s used sometimes weekly or daily by maintenance to open the gear doors for maintenance access. It also is used as alternate gear extension. It’s a dual-purpose system
@@rustyshackleford6476
true the aux system does open the doors on the ground but the power to run the pump for the aux gear extension comes on a different wire to the pump. That wire was broken.
@@doubletap800 thanks for the clarification. I was under the impression that the wire that was broken was for power rather than control. I should probably just read the discrepancy before commenting
Thanks for the report(s) Juan, safe trip back home! Regards, Randy
Look forward to hear your view of the Alaska Airlines situation on Sunday. Scary for passengers.
I came straight here as soon as I heard about it. How is it possible to kill the engines mid flight? Can they be restarted after fire suppression?
Welcome back to SYD, Juan.
Not knowing much about fuel injection systems, but if there is a "loose" fitting somewhere, might that allow for the introduction of air into the system? At least intermittently?
I recognise that hotel you are in! Nice and warm weather for you in Sydney :)
Been waiting for these updates Juan. Excellent analysis as always. I wonder if that golf course was even considered for a landing. Cheers from CYYB.
Nice to see you in Sydney again!
@-_blancolirio-- ok great! Safe trip home! C u here!👍
I agree, Jaun, that partial power loss can be more dangerous than complete power loss. Only one of my 13 engine failures was a partial, the O-235 in a pipeline 152 ate a valve. I felt I had sufficient power to continue a few miles on the pipeline to Duncan, Oklahoma. If terrain had not been favorable, I would had found a spot and landed. If the engine completely quit late for these guys, getting the wings level before touchdown is much more important than capturing the centerline extended. It is easy to catch a wire or obstruction with a down wing. Better to turn steeper than necessary early while releasing back pressure (stay at or near 1 g) rather than a shallow turn late held too near wires, obstructions, and terrain. Complete failure, while still low, is a much clearer problem. Use zoom reserve airspeed or potential energy of just a little altitude to maneuver to what will be a very apparent best place in the very near hemisphere. Best glide is a distraction. Turn as steep as necessary to go there while releasing back pressure to prevent stall (stay at 1 g), and yes, you will probably be high and fast to that site requiring full flaps and possibly full forward slip to make the beginning of the site. Trees or house?, use rudder only to put the nose between two wings level. Airspeed and ability to maneuver is life down low.
13 engine failures? Either you've got unbelievably bad luck, or you fly unbelievably badly maintained airplanes. Most career pilots never have a single engine failure.
Lowering the gear on the 177 id like throwing out an anchor momentarily. they produce a tremendous amount of drag due to the angle of the mains to the air-stream. Bad idea.
Thank you for another thoughtful video. As others have said, it was a real gut punch when Richard McSpadden was killed in this crash. The NTSB report doesn't say anything about him flying the take-off etc, but Dan Gryder says he was at the controls and he knows that is correct because he has inside information. I don't understand the discrepancy.
We had something happen the other day here in Pahrump Nevada. A commercial hot air balloon ride company giving a ride to people had someone jump out at 4000ft to commit suicide. Obviously the woman didn't survive but FAA responded but I don't know if NTSB did. It was quite the buzz for our small town here an hour west of Las Vegas NV. Another amazing episode of yours 👍 watching from Pahrump Nevada 🇺🇲
That's a very sad story.
That is one hell of a couple of the last bucket list items to have a balloon and a skydive on the same flight... Just someone forgot to take their parachute. Of which the ballon pilot would have known that they might want to jump, but without the warning of a parachute he did not expect her to jump. Maybe what they need is a clear sign saying to all passengers " Please remain in the Basket at all times " and maybe also should be belted in...
Dang man. How do you overcome your self protection systems to do that?
@@LichaelMewis I don't know what all they do for safety on those rides. I have never taken a ride on one, they kinda scare me as it is.
@@terrancestodolka4829 Ya you would think like they would wear a harness or something like construction workers wear so they don't fall. I've never taken a ride in one so I don't know.
Juan - Pushin' 80 here, so thought I knew what the heartbreak of comin' up short was, but these guys in the C-177, really took it up the chute. Investigators will have to drill down, and then drill down again as 36.7 hrs before, it was runnin' fine before Major Overhauls took over. As in movie, "The Fugitive" there's something heinkie here too, as you suggest. Hopefully as with my Ole Buddy Harry in movie, if we can get the heinkie out, their souls may be set free!! RIP to the lost!!!
Incredible how much knowledge you and some others have on something that seems intricate to me. Ask me how to work on an old chevy truck, i could probably help, aircraft just not my Forte.
Thanks Juan Brown for detailed report.
Man, that is just depressing. It sounds like Richard and Russ were so close to a much more survivable outcome. It doesn't sound like a smoking gun has been found yet for the power loss, but I hope that they may turn up something as the investigation continues.
interested to hear your take regarding the jump seat occupant incident on flight as2059
HI Juan.. If you havent already, I was .Hoping that you will be producing a segment on Russ Francis's Death in that Cardinal. I was Shocked to hear about this. My Sibling knew him quite Well when we Lived IN Honolulu Back in the day where Russ was actually a Long time Hawaii Resident for a number of years.
If the gear had been left UP might they have cleared the hill and been able to do a wheels UP belly crash/landing or tried to deploy the gear AFTER clearing the hill. They only needed 15 feet more altitude (20 per Dan) to clear the hill so maybe the partially deployed landing gear dirted up the machine just enough to loose 15 feet of altitude? The impossible turn bit hard here.
ABX B767 had a right gear get stuck in the wheel well. It took several tries to get the gear extended. A strut gasket was put in upside down.
Hello Juan. Watching the mlb playoffs, I see they have a camera in the bases…. Why isn’t there a cctv system on commercial aircraft showing flight surfaces/engines/landing gear so in case of an issue pilots can view what they are dealing with? Thanks
BTW and FYI regarding rebuilding damaged aircraft. As if today, 22 Oct 2023 that Alaska airlines 737 that busted its left landing gear on arrival at SNA is still sitting on the parking lot at the south end of the terminal.
4:35 "...bad day at the office!" Perfect understatement.
Great report Juan,hopefully answers will be forthcoming,safe flight home mate,👋👋🙏🙏👍🇦🇺
From the report: "The throttle plate was found in the closed position. When the throttle arm was actuated manually, the throttle plate moved freely within the servo, but the threaded rod for the idle thumb screw adjustment was found fractured and not connected". If they believed the rod was fractured from impact damage, they would have stated that. The threaded rod in question is controlled by the throttle shaft and meters the quantity of fuel going to the spider. That it also contains the " idle thumb screw adjustment" is accurate but misleading. The assembly controls fuel to the spider based on the throttle position. It was disconnected. End of story.
Keep up the good work, always informative. I think I spoke you you near Noumea yesterday “Velocity 178” for a ride report ?
Great use of a layover, Juan. Good report. Do you recall the sequence valve that could be installed backwards in the 727? Caused the left main to come through the top of the wing. I thought this might have happened to the 757. Thankfully not.
No matter how well trained and prepared one is, the element of surprise can be crippling both mentally and physically. I am not a pilot nor a doctor, but in my 73 years of life I’ve had a few surprises that could have been fatal. All this to say, we are human. Each person’s brain and body may respond differently in a “fight or flight” response to a situation even if intensely planned and trained for. Many a professional or expert in their field (pick any) has sadly paid the ultimate price when faced with a split second unexpected decision that must be made correctly. Train, practice, and prepare recognizing our human limitations. And foremost … remember there is a God who gave the gift of LIFE and holds our future in His hands. May He comfort the families of every downed pilot and passenger whose flight ends in tragedy. (Jeremiah 29:11) ✝️
If the engine actually quit while taxing, would think that a major red flag. Particularly for a new engine. Hard to believe two pilots of this experience level would just ignore a warning like that. Not sure anything else jumps out as an area to investigate. Tragic, hope the investigators can figure this out.
As noted in another comment - it could have been something simple like a mis-set fuel cock - a simple remedy, just flick the switch and re-start the engine, that could have unknowingly left an air bubble in the system.
@@00andJoe maybe, but not sure I’d buy into that possibility. The 177 is a high wing aircraft, with a both position for the fuel selector. If the fuel selector was in right or left the engine would run normally. Of course in off, the engine would not run, likely not even start. I’ve had a few students try to start 172s with a selector in off, and it never does. Looked at several 177 checklists, on line, and they all had the pilot check the fuel selector is on during preflight. None indicated the fuel selector should be placed in off after engine shutdown.
I lean my Cardinal aggressively on the ground after engine start to prevent oil plug fowling. Such extreme leaning will cause the engine to stumble or quit if I advance the power toward takeoff in the event I forget to go full rich before takeoff. I’ve had my engine quit twice while taxiing when I needed more power on the ground than I anticipated.
@@cessna177flyer3 that’s a very plausible explanation.
On the Cardinal accident, did anyone check the exhaust muffler for baffling breakdown? I had intermittent substantial power loss on an IO-320 due to blockage of the exhaust muffler exhaust port. Super Cubs have an AD Note for this same problem that requires a wire bale loop be installed to preclude blockage.
Darned squirrels.
Good point.
Thanks Juan... very sad loss. 🙏
I appreciate your strictly FACTUAL reporting on these incidents. I'd prefer people follow your lead and gather all the FACTS before reporting on a probable cause.
I would like to know what was done to the EFI During the last major overhaul. Engine timing? Its real easy to strip out a stud, few hours later Snap. Its also real easy to point fingers when accidents happen too!
Dropping the gear increases drag. Wonder if it only had lap belts?
Regarding the McSpadden crash, @14:00, "the engine had 36.7 hours since major overhaul". Could be a clue. Engine overhauls involve complex hand labor and any mistakes typically manifest during the first 100 hours of operation. 36.7 hours is just long enough for improperly assembled or torqued parts to vibrate loose.
Looks like the Marriott at Circular Key...
Initially it seemed like a stall/spin during an impossible turn attempt after engine failure. At least it wasn't that but they went a long way north trying to complete the mission with an engine problem. It also seems that they might have made it had they left the gear up and throttle full. All-in-all a very sad day. Our prayers are with the families of these two accomplished airmen.
Looking forward to hearing about the off-duty pilot riding the jump seat who tried to shut down the engines.
Great video as always Juan. Are the FedEx planes purpose built cargo planes or are they former passenger planes?