Daut never gets enough credit l recall a game from a tournament last year where he fell behind and decided to eat all his sheep to stay alive now most of the time when he plays as Gurjaras he eats 3-4 sheep after he markets up to Castle Age. Not to take anything away from Hera as he fully optimizes every strategy to it’s full potential and that’s why he’s a very special player but Daut is truly the final boss when it comes to strategies let’s not forget he was also the player who started the CA meta I’ll never forget the game where he tried to go CA with Bohemians after getting chemistry 😂
Looking at the math of it (there's a reddit post showing the math, I don't think it's out of date), it seems like you should only keep 2 or 3 in the mill. It's useless to put a fourth one if it takes almost half an hour to pay off. I thought pros were doing that already. But idk I'm not great with gurjaras, I tend to gather too much food early feudal then I get a very poor balance.
@Nomatterwhat69 But eating sheep isn't worth as much as directly getting the food, farms have a lot more food than they cost wood. So if you eat 175 food's worth of sheep it's only a 60 wood saving from not having to seed a farm
@Nomatterwhat69 the devs have been playing with this sheep bonus for awhile now l believe currently having 5 sheep in the Mill is the correct play after that the food income is so minimal even if you have hundreds of sheep you barely would notice. This was to combat Team games where players would use Tatars to essentially spawn infinite sheep. Fact is people who play team games are the ones who come up with 90 percent of all the crazy strategies that you see pros using. Like the Whitephos Strat for example people been doing that for years on arena even before DE especially the fast castle Bengals, Koreans and Portuguese. Sicilian one is the only one l would give slight credit to white phos but only because after they nerfed the first crusade and the Civ itself to the point where the Civ is absolutely useless and easily the worse Civ in the franchise now nobody ever picks them.
It's about timing and gathering speed. Sheep gather faster than farms. It's neither always worth it to play like this, nor isn't it clearly not worth it, it depends on the plan. you will be way faster up with continuous archer production like this, but won't have the same level of farm setup ofc. Otherwise, why care about natural food sources at all? Just purely go farms. "Only 60 wood" is not 60 wood expended you just naturally have, but the garhering time for those 60 wood, the buildtime for the farm and the effectively slower gathering rate on the farm compared to the sheep.
I think it's actually better not to eat all your sheep. Food income from Gurjara mills scales logarithmically, so that 8th sheep is worth a lot less than the 1st sheep (marginal benefit of the 1st sheep is 3.8 times as big as that of the 8th sheep). For example, 3 sheep generate 13.7 food per minute, which is more than half (56.8%) the income from 8 sheep (which is 24.1/min). So by eating only 5 or 6 sheep, you still get most of the benefits from the early timings while keeping much of the long term bonus from the food trickle.
Well 13.7 in 1 min is a lot less than 150 in min that vills take from that sheep. It helps at first, but as the game goeson, 2vills are less and less important so 13.7 food becomes irrelevant
@@GangstaGoz No. The game just counts the total amount of food of all the animals you have in all your mills. Splitting your sheep into multiple mills doesn't give any extra income.
Hera, you are the Aoe2 GOAT! no doubt! The fact that you stream, explain everything and have an easy game against the second ranked player is just insane!!! i am so glad to be alive and have the possibility to watch all kind of toptier pros like you or for example or magnus carlson in chess while playing. On top of you being an outstanding player you are also one of the best youtuber i know (great personality and very sympathic!) i watch every video of you hahah i started with 677 Elo in february this year and i am know at around 1400, which is definitely just because of you! Thanks a lot Hera 🙂
I have been doing this with gurjaras for a while now: it is very strong, imo especially with TG arabia archer play as flank, as your build is just very nice due to the wood savings and the transition to castle age is very smooth. The idea is your getting the gurjaras food bonus payback much earlier (diminishing food returns). 8 sheep produce 24.1 food/min. let's say by around minute ten, depending on how early all your sheep were garrisoned, you should have accumulated around 200 food (Didn't fact check the exact timings oh well sue me), once you have eaten all your food, you would have about 800 more ( - decay). Sending out your sheep one by one is key to keep getting food for as long as possible. Once finishing, let's say your total food profits were about 1000 food in total (again didn't do the exact math, its really just the concept on why this works). It would take 40 minutes of in game time to pay back if we just left all eight sheep in the mill. You're basically getting the food profits way earlier than you should be getting it. This is very strong in an aggressive open map as you just got the old Lithuanian food bonus, +50, except bit more long term (this is not including the free 250 food with the berries under your TC btw). On closed maps it's probably still better to keep a few sheep garrisoned (3-4), as they give the largest food output, and you may not need the food as urgently unlike an open map. It honestly is an underrated bonus if used properly.
Hello, I am a member of the GAEA (Gurjaras Armored Elephant Association) And I would just like to say that they are so strong in castle age with their +30% bonus damage, they wreck tcs and even castles like it's nothing
Eight sheep generate 24.1 food per minute. Eating 8 sheep gives you 800 food. It takes 33 minutes for the mill to generate 800 food with 8 sheep garrisoned. This strat is objectively the most efficient as you get a little bit of food in dark age and feudal (321 in around 15 minutes) but then you also get 800 food to gather without having to spend wood on farms when your hunt and berries have run out. Really big power spike.
It takes quite a bit of villager work time to collect the 800 food from eating sheep, so in practice it takes a lot less than 33 minutes for the mill to pay off (though I agree that eating at least a few sheep is usually worth it).
@Prince-Escalus Sorry but not at all, it's a lot more efficient to use that villager work time to eat the sheep rather than send them to wood and farms for the sake of saving the work time. (especially in the late feudal/early castle age when you lack some economic upgrades, it will eat too much wood and will not offset the free food you would get if you kept them garrisoned) 24 food per minute is equal to literally one villager on farm with fully upgraded eco. In the late game having 10 sheep garrisoned does absolutely nothing for your eco. But not having to spend wood on farms in late feudal is insane value and will really speed up your growth.
@@ZtarwarS It takes 2400 seconds of work time to collect 800 food from herdables. You can't just ignore that cost. Eating the sheep is more efficient than farming in the short term, but if you leave a few in the mill, they will result in a profit after just a few minutes.
I was always eating at least 2-4 sheeps when running out of "free" food, it's basically always worth it. Due to dimishing returns 8th sheep would take more than an hour to "pay for itself". On the other hand, one sheep pays itself in 16 mins (and saves you 5 min of villager working time to get that 100 food out) so I think letting at least 2 of them stay isn't that bad of an idea. In 5 mins 2 villagers can get enough wood for 2 farms and gather 100 food, so you are only 100 food "behind", these 2 sheep will make up for it in less than 10 mins
Hera - you must have a giant brain. What's next for you - telekinesis playing? It's been super enjoyable watching your progress over the past few years. Your doing more and better videos, you exude confidence and knowledge. It's a lot of fun being here to enjoy your ride.
I mean, you get 500 food from the berries, then you get the extra income while they're in the mill and then you still have the exact same amount of food outside of all that. that's a lot of free food.
I think spirit of the law showed that to min max this bonus you should do 6 sheep in mill and eat 2 and then at minute 27 start eating the rest of the sheep as the passive bonus has given you a big bonus and the 600 food would take another 18 minutes or whatever to come into your economy and 600 immediate food is worth more at that point
@@leonardosoteldo9542 sorry if i ment as a cheating perspective, i just said like, here, hera, for example, to keep a count of the relics somewhere on the screen or when we see a tournament..it could show somewhere ... not like an ingame thing when you play..
yo no se jugar correctamente gurjaras, pero siempre me voy comiendo las ovejas en feudal porque nunca senti que haga la diferencia en castillos como para tener esas ovejas en el granero. muy buen video. saludos
I've been eating the sheep since they nerfed Gurjaras and sheep in mill gave less food, old news, but, you made that game look so easy, like you weren't even trying 25%. Can see why you're 3k
900 here. I do sometimes pop a sheep or two out if I mess up the dark age and won't have the food I need otherwise. I haven't really thought about using the sheep this way on purpose. TBH it feels too much like I'm betraying the sheep. I think I'll just let them live a happy life in the mill.
"Gurjaras-Burgindians, ok" That means i will put automatic pilot and win. 23:16 Don't understimate talent of people in the ladder to throw games, trust me hahahaha.
I was doing this a year ago at 600 ELO but I didn't have an archery range hotkey, my castle time was 10 minutes later and I didn't make monks. Look at my level you don't do all of the things.
La estrategia es jugar a poca agresión en feudal defendiéndose con arqueros y torres (de ser necesaria) y buscar un tiempo de castillos súper rápido para matar al oponente con ballestero y el +2 de ataque (bodkin arrow.) La táctica que usa con gurjaras sacar las ovejas del molino para comérselas. Así evita hacer granjas y consigue un pase súper rápido. Una vez que clicka a castillos, hace collera y fletching (no la hace antes para subir más rápido) y mete todas las granjas posibles. La idea es aprovechar el ataque duro de los ballesteros y luego cambiar a una unidad de caballería, porque Gurjaras no tiene arqueros muy fuertes... Si puedes evitar hacer la torre sin recibir mucho daño es mejor aún, porque puedes vender la piedra y subir aun más rápido. Debería servir si tu oponente no te presiona duro en feudal y lo sorprendes con el pase rápido a castillos, pero Hera advierte que puede ser muy frágil esta build. Si eres manco deberías subir con más aldeanos y hacer más granjas... supongo que también sacar las ovejas pasando a feudal por si no empujas el venado te quedas sin comida más rápido.
I actually did do this for quite a while, but I used to go all in with double archery, market and siege to close the game quickly, but didn’t always work well, as I couldn’t always do enough damage against really defensive players - but a less “all in” approach like this has made me wanna try it again. Thanks @hera ❤ I’m around 1300-1400 ELO for those wondering
I think spirit of the law showed that to min max this bonus you should do 6 sheep in mill and eat 2 and then at minute 27 start eating the rest of the sheep as the passive bonus has given you a big bonus and the 600 food would take another 18 minutes or whatever to come into your economy and 600 immediate food is worth more at that point
Instructions unclear, sent sheeps to opponent who ate them.
What is unclear? There is a video dude. Can't you understand what you watch?
@ 11
Daut never gets enough credit l recall a game from a tournament last year where he fell behind and decided to eat all his sheep to stay alive now most of the time when he plays as Gurjaras he eats 3-4 sheep after he markets up to Castle Age. Not to take anything away from Hera as he fully optimizes every strategy to it’s full potential and that’s why he’s a very special player but Daut is truly the final boss when it comes to strategies let’s not forget he was also the player who started the CA meta I’ll never forget the game where he tried to go CA with Bohemians after getting chemistry 😂
Looking at the math of it (there's a reddit post showing the math, I don't think it's out of date), it seems like you should only keep 2 or 3 in the mill. It's useless to put a fourth one if it takes almost half an hour to pay off. I thought pros were doing that already. But idk I'm not great with gurjaras, I tend to gather too much food early feudal then I get a very poor balance.
@Nomatterwhat69 But eating sheep isn't worth as much as directly getting the food, farms have a lot more food than they cost wood. So if you eat 175 food's worth of sheep it's only a 60 wood saving from not having to seed a farm
@Nomatterwhat69 the devs have been playing with this sheep bonus for awhile now l believe currently having 5 sheep in the Mill is the correct play after that the food income is so minimal even if you have hundreds of sheep you barely would notice. This was to combat Team games where players would use Tatars to essentially spawn infinite sheep. Fact is people who play team games are the ones who come up with 90 percent of all the crazy strategies that you see pros using. Like the Whitephos Strat for example people been doing that for years on arena even before DE especially the fast castle Bengals, Koreans and Portuguese. Sicilian one is the only one l would give slight credit to white phos but only because after they nerfed the first crusade and the Civ itself to the point where the Civ is absolutely useless and easily the worse Civ in the franchise now nobody ever picks them.
Can you please use " . " and " , " ?
#returntoschool
It's about timing and gathering speed. Sheep gather faster than farms. It's neither always worth it to play like this, nor isn't it clearly not worth it, it depends on the plan. you will be way faster up with continuous archer production like this, but won't have the same level of farm setup ofc. Otherwise, why care about natural food sources at all? Just purely go farms. "Only 60 wood" is not 60 wood expended you just naturally have, but the garhering time for those 60 wood, the buildtime for the farm and the effectively slower gathering rate on the farm compared to the sheep.
Does this work below 3000?
Yes, Hera pulled it off in the mid 2900s here.
@@matthewb2365 So No.
@@matthewb2365phew
11
I think it's actually better not to eat all your sheep. Food income from Gurjara mills scales logarithmically, so that 8th sheep is worth a lot less than the 1st sheep (marginal benefit of the 1st sheep is 3.8 times as big as that of the 8th sheep). For example, 3 sheep generate 13.7 food per minute, which is more than half (56.8%) the income from 8 sheep (which is 24.1/min). So by eating only 5 or 6 sheep, you still get most of the benefits from the early timings while keeping much of the long term bonus from the food trickle.
Well 13.7 in 1 min is a lot less than 150 in min that vills take from that sheep. It helps at first, but as the game goeson, 2vills are less and less important so 13.7 food becomes irrelevant
late game this food income is useless, it's worth it to have the power spike
Is there bonus per mill? What if you had x2/3 sheep in 2 mills, keeping 4/6?
@@GangstaGoz if that is true, it will only be worthy on mid castle age, earlier the 100 wood of the mill is better on farms
@@GangstaGoz No. The game just counts the total amount of food of all the animals you have in all your mills. Splitting your sheep into multiple mills doesn't give any extra income.
basically the strategy is to make shawerma out of your sheep
Hera, you are the Aoe2 GOAT! no doubt! The fact that you stream, explain everything and have an easy game against the second ranked player is just insane!!! i am so glad to be alive and have the possibility to watch all kind of toptier pros like you or for example or magnus carlson in chess while playing. On top of you being an outstanding player you are also one of the best youtuber i know (great personality and very sympathic!) i watch every video of you hahah i started with 677 Elo in february this year and i am know at around 1400, which is definitely just because of you! Thanks a lot Hera 🙂
❤
the sound of that camel scout man... damn.
Sounds like a dude i used to work.for who had a brain injury
UNNNGHHHH
I have been doing this with gurjaras for a while now: it is very strong, imo especially with TG arabia archer play as flank, as your build is just very nice due to the wood savings and the transition to castle age is very smooth. The idea is your getting the gurjaras food bonus payback much earlier (diminishing food returns). 8 sheep produce 24.1 food/min. let's say by around minute ten, depending on how early all your sheep were garrisoned, you should have accumulated around 200 food (Didn't fact check the exact timings oh well sue me), once you have eaten all your food, you would have about 800 more ( - decay). Sending out your sheep one by one is key to keep getting food for as long as possible. Once finishing, let's say your total food profits were about 1000 food in total (again didn't do the exact math, its really just the concept on why this works). It would take 40 minutes of in game time to pay back if we just left all eight sheep in the mill. You're basically getting the food profits way earlier than you should be getting it. This is very strong in an aggressive open map as you just got the old Lithuanian food bonus, +50, except bit more long term (this is not including the free 250 food with the berries under your TC btw). On closed maps it's probably still better to keep a few sheep garrisoned (3-4), as they give the largest food output, and you may not need the food as urgently unlike an open map. It honestly is an underrated bonus if used properly.
Great commentary! Thanks!
I’ve never seen a pro-player get so obliterated. Poor Hearttt 😅
What an insightful game to watch!
It's funny how Hera references the game Viper had just uploaded today
Hello, I am a member of the GAEA (Gurjaras Armored Elephant Association)
And I would just like to say that they are so strong in castle age with their +30% bonus damage, they wreck tcs and even castles like it's nothing
I think this opening is extremly good vs passive openings.I am less sure about opponents that play an agressive feudal age.
Eight sheep generate 24.1 food per minute. Eating 8 sheep gives you 800 food. It takes 33 minutes for the mill to generate 800 food with 8 sheep garrisoned. This strat is objectively the most efficient as you get a little bit of food in dark age and feudal (321 in around 15 minutes) but then you also get 800 food to gather without having to spend wood on farms when your hunt and berries have run out. Really big power spike.
It takes quite a bit of villager work time to collect the 800 food from eating sheep, so in practice it takes a lot less than 33 minutes for the mill to pay off (though I agree that eating at least a few sheep is usually worth it).
@Prince-Escalus Sorry but not at all, it's a lot more efficient to use that villager work time to eat the sheep rather than send them to wood and farms for the sake of saving the work time. (especially in the late feudal/early castle age when you lack some economic upgrades, it will eat too much wood and will not offset the free food you would get if you kept them garrisoned) 24 food per minute is equal to literally one villager on farm with fully upgraded eco. In the late game having 10 sheep garrisoned does absolutely nothing for your eco. But not having to spend wood on farms in late feudal is insane value and will really speed up your growth.
@@ZtarwarS It takes 2400 seconds of work time to collect 800 food from herdables. You can't just ignore that cost. Eating the sheep is more efficient than farming in the short term, but if you leave a few in the mill, they will result in a profit after just a few minutes.
You also get the most food from the first four sheep. There is a SOTL video on this@@Prince-Escalus
Wait I thought everyone did that
People have been eating sheep with Gurjaras since the civ came out...
I was always eating at least 2-4 sheeps when running out of "free" food, it's basically always worth it. Due to dimishing returns 8th sheep would take more than an hour to "pay for itself". On the other hand, one sheep pays itself in 16 mins (and saves you 5 min of villager working time to get that 100 food out) so I think letting at least 2 of them stay isn't that bad of an idea. In 5 mins 2 villagers can get enough wood for 2 farms and gather 100 food, so you are only 100 food "behind", these 2 sheep will make up for it in less than 10 mins
9:51 , "Shavarma Riders"
Hera - you must have a giant brain. What's next for you - telekinesis playing? It's been super enjoyable watching your progress over the past few years. Your doing more and better videos, you exude confidence and knowledge. It's a lot of fun being here to enjoy your ride.
Wow, you are such an artist in this game. What a brilliant strategy.
I mean, you get 500 food from the berries, then you get the extra income while they're in the mill and then you still have the exact same amount of food outside of all that.
that's a lot of free food.
Made me remember how fun this civ is to play, even though i don't often win with it.
I think spirit of the law showed that to min max this bonus you should do 6 sheep in mill and eat 2 and then at minute 27 start eating the rest of the sheep as the passive bonus has given you a big bonus and the 600 food would take another 18 minutes or whatever to come into your economy and 600 immediate food is worth more at that point
The 1 range play is crazyyyyy. Never would've expected that.
Maybe Gurjaras could do this on Arena for some extra food.
Never would think about this.... Wow
Aguante Hera papá!
The Sacrificial Lamb strat
Ah the morley games build order.
Gurjaras are one of my favourite civs. I will try it
i think somewhere on the panel/screen should show the count of relics in the game...
Wow, that would be great. As well as artifacts, ruins, etc. (for AoE1+2 content).
How that would not count as cheating from the player perspective?
@@leonardosoteldo9542 sorry if i ment as a cheating perspective, i just said like, here, hera, for example, to keep a count of the relics somewhere on the screen or when we see a tournament..it could show somewhere ... not like an ingame thing when you play..
yo no se jugar correctamente gurjaras, pero siempre me voy comiendo las ovejas en feudal porque nunca senti que haga la diferencia en castillos como para tener esas ovejas en el granero. muy buen video. saludos
Bro people are talking about their Spotify wrapped, I just got my YTGaming wrapped and Im a top 0,1% Hera watcher, LETS GOOO
"Yo who is your Favorite artist?"
"Hera..."
Hearttt would have called it but he wanted to give youtube a nice complete tutorial
I noted special unit of this civ. Its very good counter agains khmer scorps + camels
Awesome!
Love you Hera but we’ve been doing this for a long time (1658 max elo). Enjoyed seeing it played out like this though.
I was already doing this but I didn’t notice much difference compared to playing a normal civ
Aren't there other builds already with just as fast castle ages that are just as good?
Just got my first double kill with them today !!
Loved it
did he just said shawerma riders 😂😂
I've been eating the sheep since they nerfed Gurjaras and sheep in mill gave less food, old news, but, you made that game look so easy, like you weren't even trying 25%. Can see why you're 3k
900 here. I do sometimes pop a sheep or two out if I mess up the dark age and won't have the food I need otherwise. I haven't really thought about using the sheep this way on purpose.
TBH it feels too much like I'm betraying the sheep. I think I'll just let them live a happy life in the mill.
I'm 900 also & honestly I don't think we're high enough level for it to matter 😂
Bruh, I was doing this at 1200elo years ago. I demand recognition 😂
how many gb is your ram
"Gurjaras-Burgindians, ok"
That means i will put automatic pilot and win.
23:16 Don't understimate talent of people in the ladder to throw games, trust me hahahaha.
I was doing this a year ago at 600 ELO but I didn't have an archery range hotkey, my castle time was 10 minutes later and I didn't make monks. Look at my level you don't do all of the things.
Me pueden explicar la estrategia? Gracias
La estrategia es jugar a poca agresión en feudal defendiéndose con arqueros y torres (de ser necesaria) y buscar un tiempo de castillos súper rápido para matar al oponente con ballestero y el +2 de ataque (bodkin arrow.) La táctica que usa con gurjaras sacar las ovejas del molino para comérselas. Así evita hacer granjas y consigue un pase súper rápido. Una vez que clicka a castillos, hace collera y fletching (no la hace antes para subir más rápido) y mete todas las granjas posibles. La idea es aprovechar el ataque duro de los ballesteros y luego cambiar a una unidad de caballería, porque Gurjaras no tiene arqueros muy fuertes...
Si puedes evitar hacer la torre sin recibir mucho daño es mejor aún, porque puedes vender la piedra y subir aun más rápido. Debería servir si tu oponente no te presiona duro en feudal y lo sorprendes con el pase rápido a castillos, pero Hera advierte que puede ser muy frágil esta build. Si eres manco deberías subir con más aldeanos y hacer más granjas... supongo que también sacar las ovejas pasando a feudal por si no empujas el venado te quedas sin comida más rápido.
Fresh haircut
I actually did do this for quite a while, but I used to go all in with double archery, market and siege to close the game quickly, but didn’t always work well, as I couldn’t always do enough damage against really defensive players - but a less “all in” approach like this has made me wanna try it again. Thanks @hera ❤ I’m around 1300-1400 ELO for those wondering
I've been doing this in arena for a while now, it really pumps up the food eco for 3+tc boom
So you were making shower-ma raiders?
I still think you should spend that 10.000 gold earlier 😂😂
shawarma rider
👍
I'm like 950-1000 elo and have been doing it. I actually try to delay farms until I get heavy plow first. Love the Gurjaras.
thought this before, but take out the sheep and eat them took too much clicks
lamb shawarma
This is how I've always played Gurjaras at 1200 elo. Getting up to Castle Age faster is more important than keeping them in the mill.
No ALALALALALALALALALALALALA haiyaa
Hamza, assalamu aleykum, A u playing full hd or 4k?
sounds are so loud lmfao
Does this work below 500 ? 😂😂😂😂😂
Gurjaras and being broken. Name a more iconic duo, I'll wait.
Monaspa and being broken
Georgians and Persians on michi.
First
The amount of unnecessary clicks lol
I think spirit of the law showed that to min max this bonus you should do 6 sheep in mill and eat 2 and then at minute 27 start eating the rest of the sheep as the passive bonus has given you a big bonus and the 600 food would take another 18 minutes or whatever to come into your economy and 600 immediate food is worth more at that point