How To Run LionChief And Menards With Conventional Transformers!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 พ.ย. 2023
- So you just purchased a Lionel LionChief train set, or one of the new Menards train sets - or maybe you’re thinking about buying one. The first thing you noticed was that these new trains do not use a traditional transformer, but instead use a remote-control device - and you’re wondering, “Can I run these remote-controlled trains together with regular transformer-controlled trains?”
The most common complaint I see in online train forums about these new types of trains is that they are NOT compatible with conventional-control trains. But…that’s not EXACTLY true! As you can see, my Menards Beta 4.5 Santa Fe FP7 with remote control from 2023 operates just fine with my Lionel Chessie U36B from 1974 - and I was controlling the speed of BOTH models with my traditional transformer. How do I perform this sorcery? Well, if you understand how these systems work, it’s not sorcery at all!
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How in the world did we make the same exact video? 😂 I literally uploaded the same thing yesterday. Great minds think alike.
Nice. I have the Menards beta 1 with jackrabbit start. I’ve been using this trick for 2 years. Instead of setting the remote to full speed, use it’s variability to match the speed of the 2 locos.
Good tip!
Awesome video, I'm totally conventional. Glad to see how you operated multiple mixed power units too. 😎👍
Thanks!!
I have been doing this with the Lionel Lionelchief engines and my conventional engines. It is a good solution when the Grandchildren want to run the LionelChief engines to set the transformer voltage low enough that the trains run, but will not run off the track at the corners even with the hand held unit set at full speed.
Excellent idea!
Great vid, Mike! You answered a LOT of my questions regarding my two Menard’s F7’s with my fleet of conventional locos!
Thanks much! 🚂
Glad it was helpful!
When my grandchildren visit I fun the LionChief engines at less that 18 volts. They run just fine and when the children put the handheld in full power I know they won't go off the track in the curves. I also run my conventional engines along with LionChief to compete with the kids.
Excellent!!
Great Video - I have been thinking of buying a Menards Loco but was concerned about how to run it on my layout with a transformer. All I can say THANK you.
Happy to help! I keep reading comments like yours on forums. My Menards engine is a Beta version that didn't even come with a power supply - I HAD to use the transformer.
I have an all conventional layout and I never really had any problems running remote control engines on it. I just used the transformers to supply the power to the remote control engines and that’s it.
Exactly. Many people don't realize that you can do that.
Thank you for such an informative video as all of yours are. Will definitely be trying out this tip since it sounds like the easy way to run two trains on the same track at the same time.
Happy to help!
Thanks for posting this video. Very helpful.
You're welcome!!
Very nice. Thanks for this tip, Mike. I think my conventional locos all have can motors instead of Pullmor motors, but I look forward to trying this sometime.
It should still work, but it's easier to match speeds with the older motors.
Yeah, far as I know with TMCC, you have to pull power from the Lionel base to run them conventional. If they pick up any TMCC signal, they'll just sit there, do nothing. You do have some nice vintage transformers.
As usual Mike, a great and informative video. A++++
Thanks!!!
OUTSTANDING 👍👍
Thanks!
Great information
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for the info.
👍
Conventional control? Huh?...... Oh!, I know, .....They still make them? lol Ya , Im kidding. I stick with Lionel command control exclusively. But I do love the channel even though your mostly MPC and post war I watch all your vids. You do a great job and i enjoy the tips and tricks and budget friendly options you show.
Thanks! I like command trains, but I cannot justify a mortgage payment for a locomotive!
Great tip about sound activation! I just acquired an mth Christmas set with an infrared remote. I’m planning on running it and a trolley loop on a KW. I’ll be sure to try to figure out if it’s compatible with a bell button before hook one up. The horn is terrible so no worries there😂
Test it out. MTHs remote system (PS1, PS2, PS3, etc) is different than the Menards/LionChief system in the video.
Thanks for sharing
You're welcome!
Great video Mike! Who would’ve thunk it!
Thanks 👍
Great video
Glad you enjoyed it
Thank you
Happy to help!
Love it
Thanks!!
Its funny because i always wondered if this would work but i dont have any lionchief locomotives so i never found out, great video. Ansered some questions for me lol
Happy to help!
I knew I couldn't be the only one to realize that the
Menards models could be run conventionally. I see videos of guys with these questioning what the ideal absolute safe minimum and maximum voltage to run these on is. How about anything between 0 and maximum. It's a real head scratcher.
Just a heads up.... Using a conventional transformer with a slow acting circuit breaker and running a Menards or LionChief in a conventional way is somewhat risky. A derailment could cause a short and fry the electronics in the engine.
Excellent point.
Thanks for the video. I am an older Lionel train operator with many of the older style engines. I have not bought any of the newer engines because I did not know if they could run on my large conventional transformer controled layout. This gives me information on how to run both types of engines on my old style layout. While I am a fan of the older easy to service engines I do like the newer features like crew talk and other features they offer. It was good to give the warning about voltage since if you are running an older transformer we are used to turning up the voltage to get more speed on some of our longer trains. But now we can add a newer engine with an older one to achieve the same result.
Exactly! Thanks for the comments!
I would also run a tvs diode on the rails and power supply. Perhaps even one b4 the onboard Bridge rectifier in the train itself.
Good point. I use TVS diodes throughout my layout.
Yep I do that all the time to double head lioncheif and convential engines together.
👍
I have a TMCC conventional control. Can and how would you set this up to use it ? Thank you very much. I love your shows as you do good old fashion conventional trains,
I believe the standard TMCC output is constant voltage. In that case, the Menards remote is all you need. It will ignore the TMCC voltage until you activate the Menards remote.
I have a Lionel 0-8-0 and was unsure at first how to run it on conventional track. So I put it on the track with the conventional transformer at maximum and the engine ran like normal.
Do you know WHICH version of the 0-8-0? Lionel has made versions in just about every configuration imaginable!
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks The Lionchief 0-8-0 from their Pennsylvania Flyer set
@@Coloribus2004 The conventional or LionChief version?
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks lionchief
When the video started I guessed that the remote would be set at maximum and everything else would be controlled by a transformer. I usually am very bad at guessing things!
Probably doing this wouldn't be helpful on my layout, because locking out a reverse unit on the L&M is not practical--since there is no loop, the train would run into some of my homemade wheel chocks (binder clips--clip the small ones onto the track, and it is very difficult for something to get over them). Plus, my layout only has two locomotives on it at a time and none are double-headed. It's just a little branchline, after all!
You CAN double head without locking the e unit, but you have to remember to change the remote while you are cycling the reverse unit.
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks Yes, but I probably would forget.
Sounds like I need two, separate train layouts...one strictly for the new trains and one for the old, especially since the kids aren't going to remember the restrictions of when they can or can't use all of the functions (I've already forgotten myself.)
I'm not a fan of the Lionchief ( or Flyerchief in my case ). I bought a Flyer Berkshire, but was disappointed in it's it's operation. Since it seems that's all Lionel wants to produce, unless I want to drop a grand on a Visionline, I'll stick with the old stuff.
👍
Bro, I literally just made a video about this yesterday 😂
Great minds think alike!
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks I love your video it's a lot more fancy
@@SouthernTrainproductions :-)
Basically its how to make a DCC locomotive work on a strictly DC track but with O scale.
But these are not really command control.
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks Well its essentially that if you think about the difference being one uses a remote were the other uses one controller, besides for both tracks need constant flow of electricity in order to make your Locomotive move with a chip inside to tell it to move when a single comes to it.
I get that the handheld controls are the way of the future, but NEEDING the remote to run the train is a definitive downside for me. I am 100% conventional control and find the handheld controls be they a cheap Menards/Lionchief controller, an app for your phone, or one of the big advanced control units completely unnecessary and unwanted for my railroad.
I guess that is the difference between someone who likes toy trains and someone who wants to be a "model railroader".
I like the look of the Menards units, but until they release a version that can be run under conventional control only (though your trick with the remote comes close) I simply won't own one.
I wonder how tough it would be to gut one and replace the silly remote controls with an old Lionel electronic reverse unit that would convert the unit over to full-time conventional control.
Enjoy your trains the way you want...that's what I do, and those remote controls are not for me.
Well, you could replace the board with an electronic reverse unit made for can motors. I know that Dallee Electronics used to make them for around $50, but I don't know if they're still in business. Or if you're lucky you can find an old Lionel model. Frankly, if the Menards remote ever died the cheapest fix would be a new Bluetooth board from Blue Rail or even build your own with an Arduino (one of the projects on my to-do list). OR you COULD run it on conventional DC power without a board.
How is the power supply attached to the track. Are you saying that both power supplies are attached to the track at the same time?
Only the traditional transformer is connected to the track. It powers all motors.
Hi. So running a Bachman EZ track set up with track power to the transformer which then runs to the outlet. Looking into a Lionel chief train with remote. This will run correct? Assuming I’d just turn the transformer on a bit and then control speed with the remote from Lionel? Hope that is how it will work. Thanks to anyone with input!
Are we discussing O gauge or HO?
Hi and sorry…HO gauge
Ok. I'm not really familiar with Lionel's HO Bluetooth system, but it should work in theory.@@realyeti758
Thank you very much . Appreciate it , gonna give it a shot
Anyone know if Menards locomotives will run with lionchief power packs?
No problem. Any 12-18 volt AC power source made for O trains will work fine.
Shoot I can use my regular transfor mer than the remote control
👍
I might have missed the point, but why add a remote control engine to a conventional powered layout? What is the benefit? Illustration shown would still require the “brick” right? Modern engine still needs dependence on “brick” and remote, no? Does not sound like conventional controls lionchief nor Menards. Yes they were illustrated on the same track but ……….? Double heading so the conventional engine could assist the lesser pulling power of the Menards is the only plus I see. But double head two Menards would be a whole lot simpler.
No. If you use conventional power you DO NOT need the "brick". The advantages are 1) you don't need separate power supplies for different locomotives and 2) not discussed in the video but you get better low speed control with a conventional transformer than with the remote.
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricksI read on a train blog that AC motors and DC can motors do not run well together double headed. Now this is saying it’s OK. Which is correct? There was something (also blog) about multiple AC motors phasing well double headed. Also conveyed at a given voltage that can motors s/b run with same speed can motors. I still find your videos interesting even though this one has no application for me other than curiosity.😊
@@genemanno1533 Hmmm, I have never heard that, although I can see that since open motors tend to draw more power than can motors it can be difficult sometimes to find a "sweet spot". But as you can see it works fine here and I used to do it all the time in my HO days.
@@genemanno1533 The part about multiple AC motors is true, especially when wired together. In HO I used to wire a pair of 3 pole AHM C Liners together and they ran very well that way.
@@ToyTrainTipsAndTricks When mixing AC and DC can motors my thought it would make a big difference on the current draw of each. In my youth slot cars at commercial battery powered track, my car’s rewound motor that was a real amp sucker ran faster than lesser wound motors. That also sticks in my mind. But here one is on AC and other is DC. My thought is DC will draw more amps under load. The AC shouldn’t matter as much. I could be all wet.😊😊
Do you still use the brick when running these two types together?
No. Use only the traditional transformer as the power supply. No brick required.
No. Use only the traditional transformer. Nk brick required.
Rip the guts out and hard wire the motors and lights like old times?
Well, if you do that you lose the modern sounds and you need a rectifier and reverse unit (unless you're running on DC power).
The electronics will eventually die anyway.
@@MilwaukeeF40C So will I.