Wow really amazing video. I’ve always wanted to see this, and I’ve often thought about where some of those lines lead to! Thanks for making this, it was really great
The section from Edge Hill to Kirkdale and through to Bootle could be used to create additional Merseyrail services. Pretty sure that there were plans to go from Liverpool Central (Northern Line) via a tunnel to Edge Hill. Just imagine how great the service would be for those outlying areas?
Unlikely, without an awful lot of work. The Waterloo (?) tunnel is in need of a complete overhaul and I suspect that the old Dock Railway line is non-existent now. There have been plans for e North Liverpool railway line, but this only runs from Bootle, thru Bank Hall and along the stretch of line to Edge Hill (and then into Lime Street) and will have to be run under battery power or diesel, as there are no plans to electrify the line
That's a cycleway now, and any plans for a resumption of rail services will need to take that into account. Also, most of the bridges on that line are in a hellish condition (I've riden it often enough) and will need rebuilding completely
@@russellfitzpatrick503 The line is still reserved for rail use! Frankly, it's the people who ripped it up's fault that we'd have to rebuild it in the first place! Make them bloody pay for it! I'm not sure what they were thinking when they did it, but it's clear as day that a city like Liverpool _needs_ a suburban railway to get people out of their cars, monetary cost be damned!!!
I've never understood why Costco was built blocking the exit from the Waterloo tunnel when the car park could have been located here adjacent to the travellers' site. Short sited planning decision.
I do wish you would provide better captions, legible, large and more of them as your videos are without spoken commentary, especially for navigation-location points. The re-use of abandoned tunnels and electrifying the freight lines on the Northern-Loop -Docks is very sensible, recreating mass transit commuter services in East Liverpool. I would have thought taking the Northern Line from a junction near the Waterloo-Victoria tunnel, avoiding the Exchange-Moorfields route, was better. This would need a short link from Byrom Street, under Lime Street thence to Central to allow all North -South traffic a direct access to Lime Street Main Line as per the Wirral Loop services would have been better. I think the Link route was chosen because of an intention to generate renewal between Dale-Church Streets with a station under the Cavern Quarter but never implemented. The Wapping Tunnel 'spur' with a University station would still be a good idea and I think this could be a junction with the Waterloo as well. However, the idea of any 'overhead railway' is a non-starter for both environmental and aesthetic reasons, everywhere I have seen them they blight the view and their route underneath, the old LO along the docks was possible when the docks were working behind the Wall but would be useless today and I for one am glad it was scrapped after the War. The best place for light rail, Mass Transit is underground.
Looks like a futuristic idea hilited with the yellow pen . Although most of it is just yellow pen it did exist once but for some reason got shut. So sad that bank hall / commercial road network got filled in as well for no real reason other than to make sure an electrified rail line can’t get to the docks. . why?.
If you are looking for LMR related video ideas, there are a significant number of rail over and underpasses which were built quite early on by the LMR and still exist!! I don't know of any video coverage of these early bridges. As a plus, they all within 31 miles of each other :)
A perfect example is the skew arch bridge at Rainhill. It appears with Rocket in one image. The architectural description of an "Oblique Arch" may be found in volume XXV of Abraham Rees "Cyclopaedia". That bridge is completely worthy of an entire episode!
Just a query how was this filmed.( or put together) I very much doubt by a drone as most can't fly more, than 15 mins MAX!!! ( most average are only 4-7mins MAX!!!) so, how was it done? NEVERTHELESS interesting Certainly not what I thought to expect. Like, someone else has, mentioned thought they was going to to see the AINTREE TO HALEWOOD old disused railway line. Maybe someone has a, clip or some photos they can put together to make a video to put on TH-cam of what the OLD disused railway line use, to look like 40 , 50 or even 60+ years ago That would be really nice to see. & very interesting aswell.
It is Google Earth. Liverpool is one of the cities that has been 3D mapped, so you can fly down roads and around building. Some of the skin texture is still a bit rough, but it is getting better all the time.
I would say that Kirkdale would be the major hub. The Extension would need a new spur at Rice Lane to bring it into the city since the original route has been built over. This would make the line a full loop, and you can also connect it to the Boole Branch, which would get you to more inner-city stations.
Surely gradient isn't such a big problem if the line's electrified. Look at the climbs out of moorfields and green lane for instance. The EMU's fly up them every working day. And electric trains wouldn't fill the tunnels with fumes either. And I think this plan is better than the other plans I've seen on here as it uses the existing abandoned tunnels from edge hill. But of course electrification adds extra expense. Third rail should be cheaper than overhead and it wouldn't cause clearance problems in the tunnels and kirkdale already has it in place there. But live rails are so dangerous, especially in long dark tunnels.
@@caramelldansen2204 Good, some good news for once, we've got far too many of the wretched things here in England already, more than anywhere else apparently. But I don't think the existing ones will be got rid of anytime soon, the cost would be far too insane. And I used to get a bit worried whenever I travelled the merseyrail network and saw all the gardens backing onto the live lines without adequate fencing, and it was obvious from the garden toys there was little ones there. But what about new TfL underground & overground extensions? what will they do? And this new prohibition would explain why the new crossrail line has overhead lines instead of conductor rails which should be miles safer in emergencies as well as routine work in the long tunnels.
** "it would need to descend underground to a shallow tunnel that should be built using the cut and cover technique. This means the line could go under the current Costco store" ** Wouldn't cut and cover require the demolition of all along the route - such as any stores? So you'd probably have to use compulsory purchase powers, at which point you might as well save yourself unnecessary engineering and finance problems and stick to a surface route.
There is no actual need to demolish anything above the Victoria-Waterloo tunnel and as far as I can see it runs under CostCo not through it. The simplest route from the north is to run along the Northern Line Viaduct and connect to the tunnel with an incline from a little to the east. Most of the area is reserved railway land anyway and is car parking and mobile storage.
"Non-profits and Activism": where is the money coming from to pay for all this? The usual labour Party "Money Treey"? And who is going to use all this infrastructure to make the effort & investment pay for itself as when ever I travel on Merseyside Public transport after 10am its mostly OAP's who don't pay?
No, no money, just spare time. It is not one of our official videos, but people were very dubious about the fact that there was already a working railway into Peel's Port, and that the train could take the strain without destroying green-belt land. The money for the work could come from the money that would go to making the road through Rimrose Valley, plus Peel would have to add infrastructure to unload trains. Plus when we made this, St. Helens was looking to make an interchange at Parkside, so Lorries would come off the M6, have their containers lifted onto a train, from there to the port and onto ships and the other way around.
There seems to be plenty on the Tory money tree to give to Dido Harding , etc , for all the useless track and trace , plus all the other multi million pound contracts given to Boris's mates despite them having no experience in the field of healthcare / supplies
You need to look at how the London PTE system is financed. It is so through 'ridership' even with massive new bore tunnels eg Elizabeth Line. The Bakerloo Extension was dropped because Covid lockdowns destroyed the likely income from potential ridership.
Wow really amazing video. I’ve always wanted to see this, and I’ve often thought about where some of those lines lead to! Thanks for making this, it was really great
The section from Edge Hill to Kirkdale and through to Bootle could be used to create additional Merseyrail services. Pretty sure that there were plans to go from Liverpool Central (Northern Line) via a tunnel to Edge Hill. Just imagine how great the service would be for those outlying areas?
Fantastic - hard to imagine a train could do a complete loop right back along the dock lines back to edge hill !
Unlikely, without an awful lot of work. The Waterloo (?) tunnel is in need of a complete overhaul and I suspect that the old Dock Railway line is non-existent now. There have been plans for e North Liverpool railway line, but this only runs from Bootle, thru Bank Hall and along the stretch of line to Edge Hill (and then into Lime Street) and will have to be run under battery power or diesel, as there are no plans to electrify the line
@@russellfitzpatrick503I think you’ve replied to the wrong person 👍
Who else came here looking for the old Halewood to Walton/Aintree loop line?
Here, i rode it in 2015 th-cam.com/video/0ziP7Sc5MXQ/w-d-xo.html&disable_polymer=1
Sorry! That is one we haven't done.
That's a cycleway now, and any plans for a resumption of rail services will need to take that into account. Also, most of the bridges on that line are in a hellish condition (I've riden it often enough) and will need rebuilding completely
@@russellfitzpatrick503 The line is still reserved for rail use!
Frankly, it's the people who ripped it up's fault that we'd have to rebuild it in the first place! Make them bloody pay for it! I'm not sure what they were thinking when they did it, but it's clear as day that a city like Liverpool _needs_ a suburban railway to get people out of their cars, monetary cost be damned!!!
Loved this, thank you 😊
Great video,loved the music. 🏴. 🇬🇧.
I wish you did a Liverpool tube video of all the lines that could come back, a new Anfield station and more.
I've never understood why Costco was built blocking the exit from the Waterloo tunnel when the car park could have been located here adjacent to the travellers' site. Short sited planning decision.
Some good work there!
I do wish you would provide better captions, legible, large and more of them as your videos are without spoken commentary, especially for navigation-location points.
The re-use of abandoned tunnels and electrifying the freight lines on the Northern-Loop -Docks is very sensible, recreating mass transit commuter services in East Liverpool. I would have thought taking the Northern Line from a junction near the Waterloo-Victoria tunnel, avoiding the Exchange-Moorfields route, was better. This would need a short link from Byrom Street, under Lime Street thence to Central to allow all North -South traffic a direct access to Lime Street Main Line as per the Wirral Loop services would have been better. I think the Link route was chosen because of an intention to generate renewal between Dale-Church Streets with a station under the Cavern Quarter but never implemented.
The Wapping Tunnel 'spur' with a University station would still be a good idea and I think this could be a junction with the Waterloo as well.
However, the idea of any 'overhead railway' is a non-starter for both environmental and aesthetic reasons, everywhere I have seen them they blight the view and their route underneath, the old LO along the docks was possible when the docks were working behind the Wall but would be useless today and I for one am glad it was scrapped after the War. The best place for light rail, Mass Transit is underground.
Looks like a futuristic idea hilited with the yellow pen . Although most of it is just yellow pen it did exist once but for some reason got shut. So sad that bank hall / commercial road network got filled in as well for no real reason other than to make sure an electrified rail line can’t get to the docks. . why?.
If you are looking for LMR related video ideas, there are a significant number of rail over and underpasses which were built quite early on by the LMR and still exist!! I don't know of any video coverage of these early bridges. As a plus, they all within 31 miles of each other :)
A perfect example is the skew arch bridge at Rainhill. It appears with Rocket in one image. The architectural description of an "Oblique Arch" may be found in volume XXV of Abraham Rees "Cyclopaedia". That bridge is completely worthy of an entire episode!
At least some of it is still in use for the container base at Seaforth docks.
Just a query how was this filmed.( or put together) I very much doubt by a drone as most can't fly more, than 15 mins MAX!!! ( most average are only 4-7mins MAX!!!) so, how was it done? NEVERTHELESS interesting Certainly not what I thought to expect. Like, someone else has, mentioned thought they was going to to see the AINTREE TO HALEWOOD old disused railway line. Maybe someone has a, clip or some photos they can put together to make a video to put on TH-cam of what the OLD disused railway line use, to look like 40 , 50 or even 60+ years ago That would be really nice to see. & very interesting aswell.
It is Google Earth. Liverpool is one of the cities that has been 3D mapped, so you can fly down roads and around building. Some of the skin texture is still a bit rough, but it is getting better all the time.
Would that be the Cheshire lines that went through Knotty Ash.
you should have put the areas which it was going through
Surely, if the Liverpool Extension Line were to be reinstated, Aintree would be the Liverpool North Parkway?! It must be!
I would say that Kirkdale would be the major hub. The Extension would need a new spur at Rice Lane to bring it into the city since the original route has been built over. This would make the line a full loop, and you can also connect it to the Boole Branch, which would get you to more inner-city stations.
@@liverpoolandmanchesterrailway I would agree with that. I figured the bus connectivity and nearby landmark would suffice.
Surely gradient isn't such a big problem if the line's electrified. Look at the climbs out of moorfields and green lane for instance. The EMU's fly up them every working day. And electric trains wouldn't fill the tunnels with fumes either. And I think this plan is better than the other plans I've seen on here as it uses the existing abandoned tunnels from edge hill. But of course electrification adds extra expense. Third rail should be cheaper than overhead and it wouldn't cause clearance problems in the tunnels and kirkdale already has it in place there. But live rails are so dangerous, especially in long dark tunnels.
Third rail electrification of new railways is prohibited in the United Kingdom.
@@caramelldansen2204 Good, some good news for once, we've got far too many of the wretched things here in England already, more than anywhere else apparently. But I don't think the existing ones will be got rid of anytime soon, the cost would be far too insane. And I used to get a bit worried whenever I travelled the merseyrail network and saw all the gardens backing onto the live lines without adequate fencing, and it was obvious from the garden toys there was little ones there. But what about new TfL underground & overground extensions? what will they do? And this new prohibition would explain why the new crossrail line has overhead lines instead of conductor rails which should be miles safer in emergencies as well as routine work in the long tunnels.
** "it would need to descend underground to a shallow tunnel that should be built using the cut and cover technique. This means the line could go under the current Costco store" **
Wouldn't cut and cover require the demolition of all along the route - such as any stores? So you'd probably have to use compulsory purchase powers, at which point you might as well save yourself unnecessary engineering and finance problems and stick to a surface route.
There is no actual need to demolish anything above the Victoria-Waterloo tunnel and as far as I can see it runs under CostCo not through it.
The simplest route from the north is to run along the Northern Line Viaduct and connect to the tunnel with an incline from a little to the east. Most of the area is reserved railway land anyway and is car parking and mobile storage.
If it was London then this line would be in use, but as its northern England then there no chance
Some captions for we non-Scousers would be useful.
This is actually Slough.
"Non-profits and Activism": where is the money coming from to pay for all this? The usual labour Party "Money Treey"? And who is going to use all this infrastructure to make the effort & investment pay for itself as when ever I travel on Merseyside Public transport after 10am its mostly OAP's who don't pay?
No, no money, just spare time. It is not one of our official videos, but people were very dubious about the fact that there was already a working railway into Peel's Port, and that the train could take the strain without destroying green-belt land. The money for the work could come from the money that would go to making the road through Rimrose Valley, plus Peel would have to add infrastructure to unload trains. Plus when we made this, St. Helens was looking to make an interchange at Parkside, so Lorries would come off the M6, have their containers lifted onto a train, from there to the port and onto ships and the other way around.
There seems to be plenty on the Tory money tree to give to Dido Harding , etc , for all the useless track and trace , plus all the other multi million pound contracts given to Boris's mates despite them having no experience in the field of healthcare / supplies
You need to look at how the London PTE system is financed. It is so through 'ridership' even with massive new bore tunnels eg Elizabeth Line. The Bakerloo Extension was dropped because Covid lockdowns destroyed the likely income from potential ridership.