What were they thinking? - Tommi Makinen’s lost world title

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ม.ค. 2025

ความคิดเห็น • 77

  • @jm69eng35
    @jm69eng35 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +70

    The main issue with the switch to the new car was that they had a deal with the FIA that they had to launch the car during the 2001 season, as they were already making modifications to their Group A Lancer that were technically not allowed with the Group A rules, so they gained special permission to apply these upgrades for 2001. Mitsubishi simply should have started development of their WRC car way earlier to be better prepared for the switch, as they only began development by mid-2000, which was way too late. The poor business running from Mitsubishi during that era surely didn't help with that.

    • @purwantiallan5089
      @purwantiallan5089 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Lancer should've been allowed for Group A Rules btw.

    • @uh1mike698
      @uh1mike698 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

      You have to remember that all the experience gained by Mitsubishi running Group A rules were applied to the production Lancer Evolution models. Just look at the Group N competition during the late 90s and early to mid 2000s, it was dominated by Mitsubishi. Marketing and sales wise, it was a huge success for MMC.
      Another factor is that the 2001 Lancer Evo VI TME car they were running was almost close to a WRC spec than Group A, except for the rear suspension which is still using multi link instead of mcpherson. Tommi always complained about the lack of rear suspension travel but he was able to drive around the issue and the reliablity of the car helped him a lot.

    • @chacaf22
      @chacaf22 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Exactly, also the car than finally was homologated wasn't 100% the car than was under development, because they're aiming to Montecarlo 2002, but some things like diffs, turbo, ECU and brakes are directly transfered from the 6.5 Evo because they just run out of time, the Spec2 LanEvo WRC than finally debuted like a year after (Finland 2002 if I'm not mistaken), was in fact the car than was planned for 2002, with a few more changes
      This was a much more rounded car, and in some stages showed promising times despite being heavily under developed

    • @Chr.Monika6469
      @Chr.Monika6469 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      ​@@chacaf22Welp, the spec. 2 Lancer was still pretty much a failure just like the previous version. Although it was partly the drivers fault too

    • @chacaf22
      @chacaf22 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@Chr.Monika6469 yeah, but in NZ, Finland & Germany 2003, there's some promising times

  • @Andy_ATB
    @Andy_ATB 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +24

    It's already been said, they had to move to the WRCar version of the Lancer in 2001, and not the Gp A Lancer VI thanks to a prior agreement with the FiA. The car wasn't ready, but they had no choice......

    • @purwantiallan5089
      @purwantiallan5089 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Had they delayed the development for at least 3 more months, it could've been a whole different outcome.

  • @purwantiallan5089
    @purwantiallan5089 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    2001 WRC Season has been a blast for sure.

  • @ivaneurope
    @ivaneurope 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    About the 'homologation specials' not being required for a WRC car - that's not entirely true. IIRC, Peugeot had to make a special version of the 206 since the base model didn't meet the minimum length set by the FIA. The road going 206 was 3.83 m, which was below the 4.0 mark and thus the 206 Grand Tourisme, which had enlarged bumpers to meet the 4.0 m requirement, was born. Only 4000 cars were produced which basically made the 206 WRC being based on a homologation special.

  • @davidmarecek1754
    @davidmarecek1754 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

    I think I heard that actualy Mitsubishi was forced by wrc to go to the wrc regs by the middle of the season (with San Remo rally being the deadline), because the lancer 6.5 (used for the first ten rounds) was getting too far away from the group A specs or something like that. It was just unfortunate that the new car was so underdeveloped thanks to Mitsubishi running super tight on budget (that was also why they were sticking to group A for so long). So I feel like Tommi's 2001 season was basicaly doomed (with Sweden being game changing especialy) as soon as he'll get the wrc spec Lancer. Mitsubishi made the right choice to postponing the wrc spec Lancer for as long as they could.

    • @chacaf22
      @chacaf22 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Exactly, also the car than finally was homologated wasn't 100% the car than was under development, because they're aiming to Montecarlo 2002, but some things like diffs, turbo, ECU and brakes are directly transfered from the 6.5 Evo because they just run out of time, the Spec2 LanEvo WRC than finally debuted like a year after (Finland 2002 if I'm not mistaken), was in fact the car than was planned for 2002, with a few more changes
      This was a much more rounded car, and in some stages showed promising times in 2003, despite being heavily under developed

    • @purwantiallan5089
      @purwantiallan5089 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@chacaf22the Chevy Impala and Subaru Legacy also.

  • @Spudchucker92
    @Spudchucker92 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    As soon as I saw the title I knew this was about the 2001 season and moving to the new Lancer.
    2001 and 2002 seemed to break Tommi’s spirit. Just wasn’t the same man after that. By 2003 he had already checked out.

  • @Chr.Monika6469
    @Chr.Monika6469 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    Mitsubishi were flat out broke, and the poor management never helped. IMO they were lucky to have Makinen driving for them, because i doubt any other driver from that era would have won so many titles with that outdated EVO.
    Also, Mitsubishi had some success with the the old EVO in 2001 because FIA gave them a special permission to modify their car a bit more, so they could be more competitive, with that in mind I would say that 2000 was the beginning of the downfall for Mitsubishi.

    • @purwantiallan5089
      @purwantiallan5089 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Mitsubishi's final effort on WRC was in 2005 with Lancer Evo IX WRC.

  • @nathanturner5186
    @nathanturner5186 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

    When it was reliable, it was still fast, he set his usual fast times on a lot of stages. They just didn’t have the testing to show that speed. Then when Makinen left, nobody else really talented ever drove it and Mitsubishi basically gave up development. The WRC05 was showing promise before they bailed again. In 2007 the upgraded version set amazing stage times, they just had no works support and poor drivers. I think the Lancer WRC, wasn’t as bad as the results made it look. In my opinion anyway

    • @Snarl616
      @Snarl616 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      That's true. That's why I lost interest in WRC in those years: too many rules and too many strange situations to be explained, that all made the whole circus really uncool to me. Superally rule was the final nail in the coffin.

    • @purwantiallan5089
      @purwantiallan5089 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@Snarl616especially with all WRC cars in 2024 season now only hatchbacks.

  • @roydowning4840
    @roydowning4840 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Excellent video, loved it!

  • @chlievcinema
    @chlievcinema 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I was a big Colin fan because his CMR2 game, but my dad bought a red Mitsubishi Carisma because he was a Tommi fan and i started to focus more on him.
    In my opinion, he made a silly mistake in sweden what cost him points to win. And with the new car at GB they did a lot of testing and reinforcement ow suspension and anyway snapped the wheel off.
    I think even the evo6 was slower then the rest of group A cars but Tommi was so talented that he became one with it.

  • @TheUntitled100
    @TheUntitled100 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I'd quite like to see you to do a video roasting the notoriously unreliable Peugeot 307CC, a car that Marcus Gronholm was already fed up with at only the third round.

  • @naturalborndylla
    @naturalborndylla 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Wasn't there a rumor that WRC regs had to be mandated and the FIA were closing down the modified group A cars

  • @grdixon83
    @grdixon83 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Tommi Makkinen had a horrendous record at Rally GB. He never won it, & he only got the 1997 title by scoring 1 point there, he crashed out early on day 1 in 1998.

    • @zepter00
      @zepter00 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Very similar was with Sebastian Ogier.

    • @purwantiallan5089
      @purwantiallan5089 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@zepter00and again with 2024 Sebastian Ogier and 2022 Kalle Rovanpera.

  • @UncleJoeLITE
    @UncleJoeLITE 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Very good work. Cheers from Canberra JW. (Yep, always 🦘 next 14km way down here lol.)

  • @IgorPrzysiecki
    @IgorPrzysiecki 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    loving the content mate!

  • @Rosario_Verano
    @Rosario_Verano 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    2001 was mad.

  • @xNeo64
    @xNeo64 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    You could probably make a video about all of mcraes "lost" championships
    Since he was like a few points short of being a 3 time champion

    • @samuelecavana
      @samuelecavana 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Talking of lost championships, the undisputed king of that department is Carlos Sainz. McRae arguably "lost" the 1997, '98 and '01 titles. Sainz lost 1991, '94, '95, '98, '01 and '03.

    • @UyandaMaboea-dv3qc
      @UyandaMaboea-dv3qc 13 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@samuelecavanaSainz definitely had some bad voodoo but man his career choices almost mirrored those of Alonso (who ironically looked up to Sainz and is the idol of Sainz Jr). '93 was a bad move but I guess his personal sponsorship caused a fallout with Toyota. '94 and '95 were close but the latter would've definitely been his without falling off his bike and had he stayed at Subaru for '96 and '97, he definitely could've bagged at least one of them. So yeah, Sainz could've had at least 5 titles

  • @MikeWooshy
    @MikeWooshy 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    I won't lie, I cried when Colin crashed. Stupidly, I had a large bet on him winning (the championship). If it came off I wouldn't be working today. But as the saying goes;
    "Back the loosing horse this is where you end up."

  • @JurekBogdanowicz
    @JurekBogdanowicz 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I bet if makinen would have made an ogier-like-forfuncomeback in 2005, the car would have had the potential to put pressure on loeb. Even the talented but unexperienced Galli was able to catch a rally lead. What was missingnwas Tommi

    • @TheStigSP-BR
      @TheStigSP-BR 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Would be Interesting to see Makinen driving the Lancer wrc 05.

  • @Waggysir
    @Waggysir หลายเดือนก่อน

    Colin never miss heard the note he knew how much he had cut the corner but chose not to correct it😅

  • @DomSmith
    @DomSmith 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    WRC in the early 00's 🔥🔥🔥

  • @UyandaMaboea-dv3qc
    @UyandaMaboea-dv3qc 13 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I think that one topic which hasn't been talked about enough would be Ford switching to Pirelli rubber for '01 and '02, which the Focus (especially the '01) didn't get along with. Was it totally let down by its rubber or was it a mix of factors, I'd love to see someone discuss this 😊

  • @KamilMB
    @KamilMB หลายเดือนก่อน

    0:34 WRONG!
    The guy who is double WDC is CARLOS SAINZ, the guy driving for Ferrari F1 Team is Carlos Sainz JUNIOR.
    NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!

  • @mikkomalinen2641
    @mikkomalinen2641 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    English pronunciation of Lancer is almost the same as Italian of Lancia. Got me confused couple of times.

  • @Holanduzo
    @Holanduzo 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Ha, McRae was showing an amazing pace... he was touching the exit of every corner for just being 7 secs ahead of Burns after 3 stages. He likely was going to have a crash sooer lor later, or being defeated by Burns as the 3 years prior, as Burns was the reigning winner of the rally GB in 98, 99, and 2000.

    • @UyandaMaboea-dv3qc
      @UyandaMaboea-dv3qc 13 วันที่ผ่านมา

      It's so unfortunate that Mcrae and Burns aren't alive to offer us the inside scoop to this rally, alongside their co-drivers (imagine a Dirtfish podcast with the 4 of them alongside Colin and David Evans, fantastic!). I personally believe Colin was pushing too hard trying to win the rally on the first day (Nicky Grist revealed in an interview that Mcrae wanted at least 30 seconds by the end of Day 1, which was unrealistic). More importantly, I think Richard probably had a mental effect because let's not forget that he essentially carried the mantle for winning Wales three times in a row while Mcrae never finished either event and the Subaru was definitely better than the Ford at that point of the season. Would Mcrae have won, easily? I'm not sure, if at all because Richard was certainly capable of unleashing monstrous pace without driving too far out of his comfort zone and considering the weather of the next 2 days, Richard certainly could've pushed Colin into an error

  • @SirHRDking
    @SirHRDking 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I think he potentially could've won 6 championships in a row had it not been for the problem in 2000 despite getting off to a great start and was in contention until the final round and in 2001. But who knows?maybe if he lost the 98 title but had the 2001 title, he still would've been a 4 time champion or maybe 3 if he lost it all

  • @jeremiaas15
    @jeremiaas15 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Great vid.
    On an unrelated note, I can't help but wonder- do I consider those times in rally as 'the golden era' because it really was 'golden', or is it because I was 12?

    • @Nenukknak
      @Nenukknak 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Don’t know about golden, but it was a great era. Lots of manufacturers, and competitive field. Rallies still had some endurance part although already strongly reduced, and the cars looked great. Also tv-coverage it that era was finally centrally organized, and although I’m sure in Britain and Finland rally has always had a lot of tv coverage, for a kid in the Netherlands it was great that Eurosport finally started showing rally reports.
      On the other hand, other will claim group b was the golden era, other will say group a because of the homologationspecials, other will say group 4.
      For me WRC was great till about 2003, after that it went downhill quickly. But a lot depends indeed when you started watching I guess. The current cars are mighty expressive, but for me it isn’t rallying anymore, just cars driving through a forest very fast. And yes there is a difference, those who know know.

    • @Snarl616
      @Snarl616 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      To me, it was from 1996 to 2001. After that, everything became way too electronic, with cars and races doomed from the beginning because of those diabolical E-diffs, points for power stages, and stupid situations, like Renault winning a 2litre title over Hyundai title despite never having an official car while hyundai had 2, or slowing down in order to not be the first on the road, when all that was needed was just to invert the running order.
      The superally rule was the final straw, to me.

  • @minibus9
    @minibus9 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    nice video

  • @suflexpro
    @suflexpro 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    best season ever

  • @dariongrimes5186
    @dariongrimes5186 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    If Tommi hadn't crashed in Sweden he would've won his 5th title in 2001 also

  • @max27stoner
    @max27stoner 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Watch small documentary of Tommi Mäkinen on my channel if you want to know more about him. It’s older one and in Finnish but I added English subtitles.

    • @Snarl616
      @Snarl616 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Tommi Makinen raced in an Italian city named Pescara, before he was famous. I am from Pescara, but I wasn't into rally in those years.

    • @michaelhorgan9525
      @michaelhorgan9525 19 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@Snarl616 Yes that is true he drove a VW golf in Pescara.

  • @ijesko_7
    @ijesko_7 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    He looks like rubins barichello

  • @questaebenzinah2600
    @questaebenzinah2600 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Was the Cedia the "base" for WRC04/05 only? Just asking.

    • @JWTalksMotorsport
      @JWTalksMotorsport  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I believe so from what I read. Might have been a cross between the Lancer and the Cedia.

    • @questaebenzinah2600
      @questaebenzinah2600 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@JWTalksMotorsporti don't know... But I think 7 could be the base, I think you could not change completely the car externally and it seems a 7 and not a Cedia to me. 🤔

  • @azapro911
    @azapro911 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Blame on both sides in my view; the new car was clearly off the ultimate pace but Makinen could have scooped up four more points to win the title without those crashes. One could look at it as a receipt for the '98 title he was lucky to win.

  • @Arnechk
    @Arnechk 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    But that WRc spec car was nice looking in deed. The 2004 made up car looks random tho.

  • @okok-gg5fl
    @okok-gg5fl 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    It is Juuso pykälistö not justo.

  • @nikomoin7604
    @nikomoin7604 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I mean Tommi threw it away himself in Britain

  • @bryanb5132
    @bryanb5132 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    LETS GOOO

  • @leedavies839
    @leedavies839 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Nice video but a few incorrect facts. Ie
    Calling a group A car a group B car.

  • @jarrydmckenna1720
    @jarrydmckenna1720 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    "Rally of Great Britain, even though the entire Rally was based in Wales" ..... the last I checked Wales was part of Great Britain

    • @JWTalksMotorsport
      @JWTalksMotorsport  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      That's not what I meant. The Rally of Great Britain usually took place across the entirety of the UK, not just Wales. But from 2001 they were primarily in Wales, despite the name still being called the Rally of Great Britain. It was only until 2003 I believe they eventually changed it to Wales Rally GB.

  • @MikeWooshy
    @MikeWooshy 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    At 10:31 you say "Tommi would clip the inside hole." I am calling innuendo filth.

  • @FebrianCanDraw
    @FebrianCanDraw 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    mate, it think you can talk louder....

  • @bmwracing1974
    @bmwracing1974 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Tie - tulllllll

  • @Holanduzo
    @Holanduzo 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The turn of the millenium came in 2001, not 2000. Google it.

  • @downhillchris2809
    @downhillchris2809 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    >Burns wouldn't have won if other drivers drove better.
    Yeah bro, that's literally the point of racing.