I live in NYC and I have to drive to Dobbs Ferry, outside of NYC to get a 250kw supercharger. Charging in Manhattan is a nightmare considering street-side charging are always getting ICE'd and that coupled with the abysmal state of finding street-side parking, it just makes sense to drive out to charge and not within manhattan
I'm in Westchester and periodically come into the city. Yeah, this is an absolutely awesome idea, but the only way I see it working is that there has to be lots and lots more of them. Like LOTS more. As we all know, finding a parking spot in NYC is like finding the Yeti and finding one where one of these cables will actually reach your car? Let's just say your odds of winning the lotto are probably just as bad! I think what you can do is reserve two parking spots on every block that has one of these chargers and threaten to tow any ICE vehicle. Or better still, allow anyone to take a pic of an ICE driver parked in one of those reserved spots, send it in and not only does the ICE driver get a ticket, the person who sent in the pic gets a reward for doing so.
Would you pay for a company to come to you? Like when you are parked at work? Or is there a more convenient spot that you park each day; that doesn’t have chargers yet?
This is why from day 1 i said the charge port needs to be on the right side. What happens when that cord gets hit by another car and they take off? How much will that cost to fix and you cant charge in the meantime. Tesla needs to either offer owners to install it on the right or offer two ports.
I agree. Passenger side ports make the most sense for curb side charging and when you factor in towing due to there being very few pull through style fast chargers... I think a front passenger side port like the Ariya is the most convenient port location for public charging. Front passenger side ports also work well with Tesla’s existing supercharger infrastructure and their relatively short charge cable layouts.
This is a great Idea. Hope they paint the spot for EV Charging ONLY. This is a good way for NYC ticketing agent to make $$$ from those folks that like ICEing EV spots.
In Montreal Circuit Electrique and flo have installed more than 4700 chargers in a city a third of the size of NYC. These flo units are everywhere and its great.
I really love the ubitricity chargers we’ve got in Berlin, Germany. They use lanterns to provide 4kW AC at sometimes up to 10 lanterns in a row. Perfectly for charging through the day or at night! These should be anywhere.
I wanted to hook up my car to a brand new lantern in Brooklyn. When opened it up, there were only old dirty cables inside, not even an outlet. Technologically, even big cities in the U.S. are on a third world counties level. Sad.
This can’t be done everywhere especially not most NA cities. A Canadian city did a feasibility study a few years ago you can find online. The major problem is most American lamp posts are only 110v and have barely enough capacity for just the light. Switching to LED can create capacity sometimes. More challenging lampposts were installed a century ago with poor habits. No grounding often. Missing metal conduit for the wires or rusted through conduit. To properly ground the electricity and install and repair conduit would cost much more then just installing new Level 2 chargers such as the Flo chargers in this video or pole mounted chargers that feed directly from the overhead electric lines such as some New England cities and Seattle are trying.
I have an id.4 and have used the Flo chargers often. However, NYC needs to enforce the designated parking zone for EV vehicles. There are times I pulled up and the parking spot has a gas vehicle parked.
When an EV spot is iced, that vehicle should be ticketed just like a non-HP vehicle parked in an HP space. We have reserved spaces for taxies, buses, valet, deliveries, etc, so why not EVs too.
@@TinkerTry The most we can hope for is ticketing. Correct me if wrong, but NYC only tows if parked in front of a hydrant or too many parking tickets. Does any state ticket ICE vehicles for blocking EVs?
@@johnpoldo8817 I don't know what the official policy is but I've gotten two parking tickets in my 20 years in NYC. One each on two different cars. They were both towed. I guess I'm lucky?
Level 2 charging is a must in city's, hotels, and parking garages. Parked in the Millennium Park garage in Chicago and they had L2 charging, it was awesome to charge the ID4 while we walked around town for 4hrs. Came back and we were at 80%. Recent trip to Indy, stayed at the JW Marriot. No charging in the garage at JW or the parking garage across the street. I had to drive to the EA charger on Emerson Ave 8 miles away. If I had L1 or L2 charging in the parking garage, I would never had to go the EA charger in order to make it back home.
I love these! I shop at the ethnic stores in Astoria Queens and the spots are usually open (for now) so it’s easy finding parking. It’s actually cheaper to charge than to park.
I recommend always carrying a 50-100 foot long extension cord rated to handle level 2. Like the cord on your home EVSE. This will give more parking possibilities than just the one spot by the charger.
the extension cords by nature of J1772 conector have a locking mechanism. A small lock can be put through the handle to make it that you can't remove this. does it stop all theft, no but it would stop most. @@KillaninjaFC
We have these near Philly in Narberth, PA. I only charge my Tesla at FLO chargers installed at the local library. Great experience using them they always work.
Very true. I plan my road trips around Flo chargers since you can be 99.9% sure they will work. The only problem is that everyone knows they work and sometimes you have to wait. Can solve by installing more of them!
We have a lot of Flo chargers in our area (Kingston, On) and I find them to be very reliable. Both Level 2 EVSEs and DC Fast Chargers have worked every time I need them.
Wow $1/h (~$0.15/kwh) is literally cheaper than I pay here in Texas where my apartment gouges me at ($0.26/kwh) where the residential energy costs like $0.10/kwh.
The only way I could see this working is if every street post had a charger on it. And even then trying to find a parking spot in general without a charger is difficult. I can only imagine finding a vacant spot with a charger. I guess you have to start somewhere…
Lol. Thank you for pointing out New York's hypocrisy. As a New York City resident, I have seen zero chargers in the neighborhoods. New York is probably gonna be the last state/ city to electrify in America. I have seen more chargers in the South than in the North. By the way, people can't even find a street parking spot, now they are gonna force to fight for chargers? God bless them.
Currently charging on a Flo Charger while I am on a business trip in Quebec. I have never run into issues with Flo chargers. They partner with Circuit Electrique in QC.
While this is AWESOME, I see one big issue with it. Finding a NYC parking spot is like finding the Yeti. Finding one that also happens to have a Flo charger? I'm sure your odds of winning the lotto are better! How do you stop ICE vehicles from seeing the spot and taking it? I see that the cables are pretty long, so you don't have to find a spot right in front of it, but I think at least two spots on every block that has one of these chargers should be reserved for EVs/PHEVs and the owner will be towed.
At least at the first location in the video, there was a street sign noting EV only parking. So tickets and towing for blocking the chargers is on the table. However I don't think that is truly a long term solution as the project expands. The places that need these most can't spare the available parking spaces for them. I think the solution (besides investing in improving and expanding the public transit so we need less cars to begin with) is to worry less about maximizing utilization of the chargers and instead just focusing on minimizing disruption and putting them where the community needs them most. Which means if it makes sense then designated the install as a "EV charging spot", but don't be afraid to make "street parking spots with EV charging available". It'll be annoying for EV drivers when the chargers are blocked by ICE vehicles, but IMO it is better than taking spots away from the people and businesses of the area. Eventually as they roll these out we should reach a point where it shouldn't even matter that they are general purpose parking spots, the chargers should be common enough that you'll have a chance to charge at some point.
You don't stop ICE vehicles from parking there unless you have special non-EV parking for the ICE vehicles. And what about EV's that park there but are not actively being charged? Perhaps tow them? Not too hard to understand why EV adoption is weak in many markets. You start towing and pissing off non-EV's in downtown NY, just wait and see how many keys run down the sides and knives go into the tires.
We have a few hundred of these in the LA area right now and they're great a few by USC don't work or they've been vandalized but the Chargers themselves I like them I like the latch a lot better than chargepoint I get less errors however the biggest issue is non-electric Vehicles parking there and taking up the space that's the biggest hassle
Great work and huge to have these installed. I’m surprised cables on the ground wouldn’t be considered a tripping hazard on a sidewalk but good to know.
Just finding a spot in the city is hard enough. Finding one with a charger that is open will be very hard to do unless they are marked EV parking only.
Exactly. I'm VERY GOOD at finding spots and I've noticed over the last 5 years or so, they've gotten pretty much impossible to find. Thank God I don't live in the city, but if I did (and I still insisted on having a car), I'd just pay for a spot. It's too much of an effort and you can spend hours per week looking for one. It also makes you not want to move your car once you've got a spot. And if it snows? Forget it! I've seen people not move their car for months if it snowed heavily in, for example February and there are still snow banks, taking up 5 spots, until April.
@@tauzNThat’s more like there WILL be no chargers if they can’t get used. These aren’t non-profit businesses. They need high utilization rates to make it worth the investment.
Flo has a few of those level 2 installation where the cables are hidden locked around Los Angeles. There are none here in Chicago and desperately need em here, especially since there are a number of overwhelming Bolt rideshare drivers clogging DC fast chargers here
@@Termnath Out here in Chicago is just as bad except they're all clogging up EA stations and some evGO stations! I have to drive far away from them in order for me to do my nightly charge! I have a video coming up talking about it on my channel very soon! It's so frustrating and i know Uber needs to stop handing out Bolts for rideshare
@@ChargingtheRoad also in Chi. I’m wonder how much of it is a education issue (not understanding that there’s no goddamn reason to spend an hour charging that last 20%) and how much of it is just an asshole issue. We had to knock on a Uber driver’s window to wake her up when she reached 100% and tried to explain to her the charging curve and that there was a line of 10 people behind her and she just very clearly didn’t understand why you wouldn’t charge to 100. Her charge time was 95 fucking mins. Some people thinks it’s like a gas tank, gotta fill up all the way every time. When I had a bolt, I wouldn’t even charge to 80% because it took so long and the curve sharply declines after 55%. Just would do 30 min charge to 55% and do more frequent charges, much faster. In reality, you really shouldn’t own a car like the bolt unless you have home charging, otherwise it just doesn’t make sense. But these Uber programs are just too enticing and have gotten a lot of people in the city without home charging to buy in without them understanding the charging commitment and pain until it’s too late. Out of 6 stations, 2 were broke, 1 was derated to 38kw, 2 had bolts charging to 100%, and only one was fully operational and bolt free. In the time it took those bolts to go from 70-100, we had 4 cars charge to 80% in the one single fully working one and I plugged in as the 5th car. It took 2 hrs to charge just because of bolts. Thank god I stuck it out though because by the time I left, the line was made up of 11 bolt Ubers. I mean what do you even do if you pull up to a station and there’s 11 bolts and they’re Ubers !??! That’s going to be half your day.
@@TermnathIt's been a blood bath here in Chi with the Uber Bolt drivers! Many of them I see pull up 50+% SoC and still take 90 minutes to charge 100%! I spoke to one lady and asked why charge to 100% and she said so she doesnt have to come back tomorrow. Then I proceed to ask "when was last time she charged up" and said yesterday smh - i erally think its 40% undeucated 60% dgaf sadly. I was (ironically) driving for Lyft today and spoke to a passenger that has an e-tron sportback and is equally frustrated with Uber Bolts clogging up the stations! I think different measures need to take place for them to limit their charging time by cutting them off after 60 minutes or evem do what Tesla is doign by charging extra fees for going beyond 80% Its really getting obsurd here!
@@ChargingtheRoad really there should be a time tax after 45 mins that keeps increasing the longer they stay. I mean think about even from a business perspective. Why should Electrify America let one bolt charge for 95 mins only to make $20 when 7-8 faster cars could have charged in that time and they could have made $160 from that charger. Really need to limit charging time especially during peak hours. It’s insane that anyone would buy a bolt if they don’t have home charging, they aren’t meant to be DC only cars, it’s inefficient for both the owner and the charging companies.
WoW~! So compacted, nice. The charging stations in Paris are twice the size. Hope NYC can turn out more stations soon. But then, besides the ICEs taking up spaces, how about other EVs fully charged and taking up the parking?
Nice installation! You can see how the ID.4 is designed for charging at a street side and the Tesla isn’t. It can be frustrating to charge my Model 3 in urban areas.
The Tesla is designed for garage charging which is still the majority of ev owners. If the charging port is located on the passenger side and you leave enough passenger space to the wall for the charging handle to stick out then most garages won’t have enough space left for the driver door to open. Most people park in their garage hugging the passenger side to the wall.
The lock mechanism is interesting and definitely needed in some cities. That said the cables add to clutter. The CCS Type 2 solution where you have BYO cables and the cables lock inside from both ends. I wonder as US cars move to NACS it might be possible for a BYO NACS to NACS cable given it has similar internal locking.
Fun fact: up until a century ago there were more electric cars in New York running as taxis than there were any other fuelled car. This was because they valued how quiet and smooth they were compared to the equivalent inline 4 cylinder petrol engine. The major reason they went away was partly due to the issue that was mentioned early on in the video by Kyle, that due to the lack of garages, there weren’t many places to charge them off the street, but also to do with lack of stable battery chemistry allowing for long-distance travels without the necessity of charging.
There aren’t gas stations on every corner in Manhattan so many people go out to NJ or elsewhere to fill up. We drove our Tesla into NYC in October and the parking lot had a level 2 charger just in case and Kyle had a video about the revel Tesla cab service and where they charge and other charging options, but this is a game changer!
Captain Obvious once said: "Without charging, EV's are useless" He also said that commercial charging companies charge so much per kWh that deletes most of the cost benefit of an EV. My EV is charged at home at very low rates so it makes sense. Super easy and super low cost. If I relied on commercial charging, I would never have an EV.
Me along with most everyone I know didn't get a Tesla because of the cost or anything to do with the environment. We got them because of the technology, the way they drive, and mainly the speed and instant torque. Even if it's the same cost to power as a ICE most people would still get the Tesla. If you buy a $50k electric car to save money you don't have much common sense to begin with.
There are 162,000 street corners in NYC, will need more than 100… Less than half of New Yorkers even have cars, and those that do, less than half have a garage. This would need to be at every corner for it to work, so you can charge overnight on the street with enough for your neighbors as well.
Whenever people ask me how I charged my EV for 3 years w/o a garage or driveway access, I first ask them how they fill up gasoline at their house?:) L2/3 Public charging at stations has not been a major issue here in CA. Home charging is never free, but public (sometimes) can be. Too slow imo anyway.
If you look at lecircuitelectrique here in Montreal, we have over 2000 of them Here, I rarely have a problem using one They are all over the city. We have a lot of DC one from flo to 50 kw to 180kw all over and they're doing a test in Laval hundred percent solar system that does 50kw for free
some NYC streets are narrow enough where you may have a driver bump/run over the charger, hence not the biggest fan of the handle, one suggestion is to narrow it and possibly make it a 90 turn.
When I was in Paris over the summer, I saw quite a few streetside charging meters. I don’t know who put them in, but I was surprised at how many I saw..
I don't think these stalls fully solve the problem. Let's say you need to charge 40%, which might take 5 hours. If you plug it in at night it'll finish in the middle of the night. Do you have to go move your car at midnight? How do you then find a parking spot? If you work you can't move it during the day either. This sounds like a huge headache.
So that’s one Level 2 charger shared by 750 people? Dependence on public charging, except for on-highway long distance driving, is ridiculously impractical. Private charging facility is essential for practical operation of today’s EVs. Dense urban areas will have to rely on ICE vehicles and public transportation for the foreseeable future.
@@carsonassociates3263 you are wrong, installations simply follow the uptake of EV here. I can only use public charging and I never have an issue finding a free level 2. There will be 25000 charging points by 2025 and more then 100000 by 2030
@@FrankNolf If there are 2.9M households in Flanders, and if only one-in-four households owns only one private automobile, that’s still about one L2 public charger for 100 automobiles. I suspect that most Belgian EV owners, like most American EV owners, operate their own private charging facility. Mass public charging is ridiculously impractical, if not impossible, whether in Flanders or NYC.
@@carsonassociates3263 majority have private charging. Countries like Norway prove it’s not an issue, in cities like Oslo a lot of people rely on public charging and it’s not an issue. City dc fast charging hubs and plenty of level 2 charging. This problem is solved, it’s a matter of good policy and putting the infrastructure in the ground.
@@carsonassociates3263 I think you are thinking that EV charging spots will affect the owning of a car issue in general - the parking issue will always be same. The transition to EV in NYC as Kyle stated will help in other ways (smog , noise and in time less real-estate needed for gas stations to name a few) in high population areas like NYC. Your "mass public charging" is not what is shown here. Level 2 AC charging (while the driver is not needing to use the car) with wide area dispersion in the neighborhoods is a non-issue. The "other" American EV owners will need this public charging option in order to ease the transition off ice. I think the Flanders example is something to learn from.
Flo not having an electric vehicle for their service vehicle is a big miss. Also you missed the obvious question are they changing to NACS, if so when!
Thanks, Kyle. I couldn’t see the top of the standard, but I would imagine a nice street light with a camera would be nice. I also would’ve asked how icing enforcement is conducted by NYC’s meter maids. A slightly unrelated issue that I am obsessed with, is that a power content label should be on every charging dispenser. In other words, does Flow or even ConEd have Renewable Energy resources that they can admit to the grid for customers who are conscious of where their juice comes from. This is something that I have been advocating for with, not only Tesla, but all juice providers.
@@DblOSmith What, LOL!? 22% of people in Manhattan own cars, compared to 85% in Portland… The solution to too many cars isn’t different cars, it’s reducing the need for cars
😂 Like “Sorry Boston, Sorry El Chicago, Sorry Seattle, Sorry Austin, Sorry Portland, Sorry Salt Lake, and Sorry San Fran.” NYC is the only city with a legitimate public transportation “option.”
30amp 5.8kW doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why not go to 48amp 11kW and churn people through. I'm guessing they probably could only get 80amp connections that would be split against to 2 posts. but load balancing would be nice to better utilize the 80amp that's there.
If the cable management is overhead, why not design the plug end of the cord to orient upward when plugged in so we aren’t scratching up everyone’s cars?
Please make the cable more visible. It lies on the floor and apparently goes at head-height. It should be bright orange and maybe even blinking if possible. Is there a way to make the handle smaller? It sticks out like a sore thumb. And there is nothing in there that justifies the size. Maybe Tesla should have angled adapters? Is there a standard that mandates it to be this huge? Cool with the crash-tests! Can you make the boxes smaller? There is nothing in there. EVSEs are just glorified switches. YES! At work and at night I want 20 wall plugs instead of one 50kw charger. Huge grats on the uptime!
I live in Brooklyn 20 min from Barclays charging have to pay 4 bucks to get In and 16 min from coney no fee parking so I’m good. But I usually just charge at work lol
Anything that gets more level 2, or even level 1, charging for places where cars are left overnight, or during work hours, is what we need. Level 3 is for road trippers - level 2 and 1 should be at the places where the car is sitting overnight or during work hours.
I own a house in Brooklyn. The neighbor hood has quite some EVs. Can we request an installation in our area? I would be happy to have this in front of my house.
Come to Las Vegas. Worse than NYC you’re lucky to find ONE 48kw working charger within 30 miles. 250kw? R u kidding me lol. ChargePoint has 7kw chargers here lol
Redesign needed as to why cables are exposed from the box to the top of the post is a serious flaw, should have been routed internally through the post, with minimal exposure of the charging cable from the top of the post.
They look awesome .. but ..I don't see street side charging in a dense city working until after there are MANY dedicated EV charging spaces in parking lots and parking garages first. City streets generally don''t have defined spaced - you park wherever you fit and there will be many collisions. Exception being neighborhoods that aren't that dense, don't have parking garages and few parking lots.
Great video review Kyle! If you want to learn more about what it takes to design a smart-city product like this one, and get it approved for use in the streets of NYC, let me know!
What is the cost per kw that Flo charges? I do not see a point in paying the same rate for level 2 as DC Fast Charging. These charger should be free or extremely low cost. It would be more effective for NYC to provide Level 1 at 20 amps on every street pole, similar to how London handles it.
It would be easy with the European connector (Mennekes) as the cable are designed to be detachable and EV owners can bring their own cables. J1772 unfortunately is not a detachable design and the city will suffer with cable management issues, misuse, damage and vandalism.
@@Jabid21 EU also has 220 volt standard while the US has 120 volt. An ordinary outlet that allows EV owners to plug in for 7 miles an hour would suffice for this application IMO. The city won't need to provide any cables. But it would have to be provided for free. A small price to pay for this green city.
They said a dollar per hour and 6kwh speed so roughly 15 cents per kw. I think something like an orange charger Outlet on every pole would be good. They make 5-20 and 6-20 versions, are cheap, don't need much infrastructure since the pole already has power and they work for billing.
I like the idea, charger design looks awesome but what I don't like is the cords laying close to the ground. In my eyes, late at night, it will be a tripping hazard. Hopefully no one trips on it and the city doesn't get a suit.
Surprising to me that people refer to Flo as reliable? All of their 50kW chargers in Vancouver are now running at 30kW due to some defect and the prices are still per-minute, so I simply avoid flo chargers now.
If they put in 80 amp chargers then people could get a week's worth of power quickly and cycle out to a different parking spot to let someone else recharge... more cars filled per day per spot
This is nice to see. Hopefully there will be more like this in the future. Once it becomes more common, maybe we will see less gas cars and non-charging EVs blocking charging spots.
I like the idea of curbside level 2 charging. But, right now, it looks like it's essentially just a pilot project to test out equipment and work out kinks. In order to really scale, New York will essentially need chargers like this at almost every parking space on every block, citywide. As the charging scales up, the topic of parking management is only going to get more difficult. In particular, if more and more of the street is restricted to EV charging only, that leaves ICE vehicles with nowhere to park. My personal opinion is that the sweet spot is a world where ICE vehicles *are* allowed to park next to chargers, but only by paying the same hourly parking rate that an EV driver would be paying to charge up their car. If the chargers fill up literally every parking space across the entire block and the parking rate is set to match the market price for parking on that block at various times of day, any EV driver in need of electricity and willing to pay the parking fee will be able to get it, while any vehicle (EV or ICE) in need of a parking space, willing to pay the parking fee, would also be able to get it. Such a rate would likely be high enough that those parking solely for the electricity (e.g. drivers who have a reserved garage space nearby that does not have charging) would find it not worth it, and be able to charge their car for less by visiting a DC charger elsewhere. I think that's fine as the NYC real estate the car sits on is worth way more than level 2-speed electricity, and there is no way to make such a person happy without under-pricing the parking to the point where there's never anything available. But, for people that rely on street parking, at least finding a charger would be no more difficult than the (admittedly not easy) task of finding street parking such drivers already have to deal with.
I checked the Plugshare scores of these sites. Not surprisingly, it's almost all ICE'ing issues that bring down the scores. It's great to have mobile crews that inspect the chargers on a schedule, that's what it takes to keep them up. It's also cool that they aren't all surrounded by a forest of bollards. Flo has chosen instead to make them impact tolerant. Now, NYC just needs to 10x the number of these chargers, and combine that with the kind of streetlight charging that's done by companies like Ubitricity in London.
You will find ubitricity lamp post charging in London and other European cities because the installed electrical infrastructure is 230 volts. Most American posts are only 110 v and can only support the light. 120 volts only became standard in the 1970s. LA does have 240 v lamp posts and they did actually some ubitricity lamp posts in a trial. Haven’t heard of this was successful and planning to be expanded though.
I use Volta chargers in general around Philly/DE. They are new and always working. One time, I couldn't get an open spot. The Nissan dealership is busy charging its own cars. An airport hotel has a broken Tesla, so the J-1772 is used. Anyway, make a video about the Christiana Mall in Delaware with its many chargers. Tesla owners stare at my Fiat and think I iced them!!! Ha! Best is the Maryland Transit Authority, MTA Park N Ride at Marsh Creek Mall. It is free to use with Level 2 ChargePoint and park. Take the $2 bus to John Hopkins and save 34 miles, plus my car was recharged in 3.33 hours when I returned. Saved $8 parking garage fee. Got the disability price of $1 each way! 😊😊😊 I have 5 months of FREE EV charging since owning my Fiat 500E!
Flo is the most predatory charging network out there. They require a 15 dollar payment for an RFID card here in Canada. No, not for a replacement, but for your first card🤯. Honestly, I haven't gotten over that initial experience. Very gross business practice. I have 6 other RFID card in my car, and they were all free.
These are early days still. No technology or infrastructure has ever been born fully formed, totally dispersed, nor perfect. I see nothing but good here, as Flo, ConEd, and NYC start an exciting journey down this path of providing useable, reliable and available charging infrastructure in that amazing city! Terrific video, Kyle!
I see nothing but bad. They're an eyesore and a hazard, worse than even those silly rental app scooters that litter our streets. Just imagine city streets being lined with these things in the future.
I live in NYC and I have to drive to Dobbs Ferry, outside of NYC to get a 250kw supercharger. Charging in Manhattan is a nightmare considering street-side charging are always getting ICE'd and that coupled with the abysmal state of finding street-side parking, it just makes sense to drive out to charge and not within manhattan
Same here I live in riverdale in the Bronx and the only viable option for me is dobbs ferry
I'm in Westchester and periodically come into the city. Yeah, this is an absolutely awesome idea, but the only way I see it working is that there has to be lots and lots more of them. Like LOTS more. As we all know, finding a parking spot in NYC is like finding the Yeti and finding one where one of these cables will actually reach your car? Let's just say your odds of winning the lotto are probably just as bad! I think what you can do is reserve two parking spots on every block that has one of these chargers and threaten to tow any ICE vehicle. Or better still, allow anyone to take a pic of an ICE driver parked in one of those reserved spots, send it in and not only does the ICE driver get a ticket, the person who sent in the pic gets a reward for doing so.
Would you pay for a company to come to you? Like when you are parked at work?
Or is there a more convenient spot that you park each day; that doesn’t have chargers yet?
Well living in an apartment with an electric car sucks in ny
Nio cars with battery swapping is suitable for big cities like New York
This is why from day 1 i said the charge port needs to be on the right side. What happens when that cord gets hit by another car and they take off? How much will that cost to fix and you cant charge in the meantime. Tesla needs to either offer owners to install it on the right or offer two ports.
I agree. Passenger side ports make the most sense for curb side charging and when you factor in towing due to there being very few pull through style fast chargers... I think a front passenger side port like the Ariya is the most convenient port location for public charging. Front passenger side ports also work well with Tesla’s existing supercharger infrastructure and their relatively short charge cable layouts.
This is a great Idea. Hope they paint the spot for EV Charging ONLY. This is a good way for NYC ticketing agent to make $$$ from those folks that like ICEing EV spots.
In Montreal Circuit Electrique and flo have installed more than 4700 chargers in a city a third of the size of NYC. These flo units are everywhere and its great.
I really love the ubitricity chargers we’ve got in Berlin, Germany. They use lanterns to provide 4kW AC at sometimes up to 10 lanterns in a row. Perfectly for charging through the day or at night! These should be anywhere.
I wanted to hook up my car to a brand new lantern in Brooklyn. When opened it up, there were only old dirty cables inside, not even an outlet. Technologically, even big cities in the U.S. are on a third world counties level. Sad.
This can’t be done everywhere especially not most NA cities. A Canadian city did a feasibility study a few years ago you can find online. The major problem is most American lamp posts are only 110v and have barely enough capacity for just the light. Switching to LED can create capacity sometimes. More challenging lampposts were installed a century ago with poor habits. No grounding often. Missing metal conduit for the wires or rusted through conduit. To properly ground the electricity and install and repair conduit would cost much more then just installing new Level 2 chargers such as the Flo chargers in this video or pole mounted chargers that feed directly from the overhead electric lines such as some New England cities and Seattle are trying.
Those FLO aka Add Énergie L2 street level units are EVERYWHERE in Montreal QC. To be expected considering they are a Canadian Company
I have an id.4 and have used the Flo chargers often. However, NYC needs to enforce the designated parking zone for EV vehicles. There are times I pulled up and the parking spot has a gas vehicle parked.
They identified as an ev at the time.
When an EV spot is iced, that vehicle should be ticketed just like a non-HP vehicle parked in an HP space. We have reserved spaces for taxies, buses, valet, deliveries, etc, so why not EVs too.
Towing violators, if that’s an option for NYC, would be nice.
@@TinkerTry The most we can hope for is ticketing. Correct me if wrong, but NYC only tows if parked in front of a hydrant or too many parking tickets. Does any state ticket ICE vehicles for blocking EVs?
@@johnpoldo8817 I don't know what the official policy is but I've gotten two parking tickets in my 20 years in NYC. One each on two different cars. They were both towed. I guess I'm lucky?
Level 2 charging is a must in city's, hotels, and parking garages. Parked in the Millennium Park garage in Chicago and they had L2 charging, it was awesome to charge the ID4 while we walked around town for 4hrs. Came back and we were at 80%. Recent trip to Indy, stayed at the JW Marriot. No charging in the garage at JW or the parking garage across the street. I had to drive to the EA charger on Emerson Ave 8 miles away. If I had L1 or L2 charging in the parking garage, I would never had to go the EA charger in order to make it back home.
I love these! I shop at the ethnic stores in Astoria Queens and the spots are usually open (for now) so it’s easy finding parking. It’s actually cheaper to charge than to park.
I recommend always carrying a 50-100 foot long extension cord rated to handle level 2. Like the cord on your home EVSE. This will give more parking possibilities than just the one spot by the charger.
And maybe carry your own character? 😅
Might work in the Upper East/West sides. Uptown or downtown from there, nope. 2 hours left unattended and it's gone.
It’ll get stolen in most big blue cities
the extension cords by nature of J1772 conector have a locking mechanism. A small lock can be put through the handle to make it that you can't remove this. does it stop all theft, no but it would stop most. @@KillaninjaFC
@@MrKillerRCAll cities are blue
We have these near Philly in Narberth, PA. I only charge my Tesla at FLO chargers installed at the local library. Great experience using them they always work.
Great Program. Glad to see it. I hope it expands exponentially! Thanks for highlighting this important part of the transition.
Kyle, this is an important video and not your typical road trip-style content. But this topic also has real-world challanges; thanks for covering it.
Flo chargers have been very reliable where I am in Toronto compared to other chargers (aside from Tesla's superchargers)
Very true. I plan my road trips around Flo chargers since you can be 99.9% sure they will work. The only problem is that everyone knows they work and sometimes you have to wait. Can solve by installing more of them!
We have a lot of Flo chargers in our area (Kingston, On) and I find them to be very reliable. Both Level 2 EVSEs and DC Fast Chargers have worked every time I need them.
Flo user here. We love them, just need more in the city!
Montreal uses the same units, branded differently.
Wow $1/h (~$0.15/kwh) is literally cheaper than I pay here in Texas where my apartment gouges me at ($0.26/kwh) where the residential energy costs like $0.10/kwh.
Try $0.80 kwh in the UK.
That's only 9pm to 6am. 2.50 otherwise which is kind of like 40 cents kwh
I guess I can't complain because I drive to public chargers and pay an effective rate of $0.013/kwh ($4/month for unlimited level 2 charging)
That charging plug sticking out of the M3 into the street is going to get clipped and wreck the charge port in no time.
That’s what I was thinking. The passenger side would be a better charging plug in area
The only way I could see this working is if every street post had a charger on it. And even then trying to find a parking spot in general without a charger is difficult. I can only imagine finding a vacant spot with a charger. I guess you have to start somewhere…
Lol. Thank you for pointing out New York's hypocrisy. As a New York City resident, I have seen zero chargers in the neighborhoods. New York is probably gonna be the last state/ city to electrify in America. I have seen more chargers in the South than in the North. By the way, people can't even find a street parking spot, now they are gonna force to fight for chargers? God bless them.
Kyle, you’ve got to get to Montreal if you haven’t already been. The EV infrastructure there is outstanding.
Currently charging on a Flo Charger while I am on a business trip in Quebec. I have never run into issues with Flo chargers. They partner with Circuit Electrique in QC.
While this is AWESOME, I see one big issue with it. Finding a NYC parking spot is like finding the Yeti. Finding one that also happens to have a Flo charger? I'm sure your odds of winning the lotto are better! How do you stop ICE vehicles from seeing the spot and taking it? I see that the cables are pretty long, so you don't have to find a spot right in front of it, but I think at least two spots on every block that has one of these chargers should be reserved for EVs/PHEVs and the owner will be towed.
At least at the first location in the video, there was a street sign noting EV only parking. So tickets and towing for blocking the chargers is on the table. However I don't think that is truly a long term solution as the project expands. The places that need these most can't spare the available parking spaces for them. I think the solution (besides investing in improving and expanding the public transit so we need less cars to begin with) is to worry less about maximizing utilization of the chargers and instead just focusing on minimizing disruption and putting them where the community needs them most. Which means if it makes sense then designated the install as a "EV charging spot", but don't be afraid to make "street parking spots with EV charging available". It'll be annoying for EV drivers when the chargers are blocked by ICE vehicles, but IMO it is better than taking spots away from the people and businesses of the area. Eventually as they roll these out we should reach a point where it shouldn't even matter that they are general purpose parking spots, the chargers should be common enough that you'll have a chance to charge at some point.
You don't stop ICE vehicles from parking there unless you have special non-EV parking for the ICE vehicles. And what about EV's that park there but are not actively being charged? Perhaps tow them? Not too hard to understand why EV adoption is weak in many markets. You start towing and pissing off non-EV's in downtown NY, just wait and see how many keys run down the sides and knives go into the tires.
"in LA, one of them [chargers] took a bullet, and it was okay." I would've never guess bullet resistance would be a critical design feature.
in the US obviously...
@@marcusbiller867 do criminals in Europe not have guns? Or it’s only the law abiding citizens that are banned being able to protect themselves?
They are pretty much everywhere in Montreal, Canada, and I personally love them. They are convenient, and inexpensive to operate.
We have a few hundred of these in the LA area right now and they're great a few by USC don't work or they've been vandalized but the Chargers themselves I like them I like the latch a lot better than chargepoint I get less errors however the biggest issue is non-electric Vehicles parking there and taking up the space that's the biggest hassle
we have a lot of these in Western Canada. They are pretty handy and reliable whenever I visit our nearby recreation centre.
In europe they require you to bring your own cable. That makes a lot of sense to me.
Great work and huge to have these installed. I’m surprised cables on the ground wouldn’t be considered a tripping hazard on a sidewalk but good to know.
Just finding a spot in the city is hard enough. Finding one with a charger that is open will be very hard to do unless they are marked EV parking only.
So there should be no chargers, because its might not get used? Got it.
Exactly. I'm VERY GOOD at finding spots and I've noticed over the last 5 years or so, they've gotten pretty much impossible to find. Thank God I don't live in the city, but if I did (and I still insisted on having a car), I'd just pay for a spot. It's too much of an effort and you can spend hours per week looking for one. It also makes you not want to move your car once you've got a spot. And if it snows? Forget it! I've seen people not move their car for months if it snowed heavily in, for example February and there are still snow banks, taking up 5 spots, until April.
Actually Kyle answered the question later on when he said that the spots will be marked for EV charging and violators ticketed. @@tauzN
They are marked. There is a sign. The issue is enforcement.
@@tauzNThat’s more like there WILL be no chargers if they can’t get used. These aren’t non-profit businesses. They need high utilization rates to make it worth the investment.
City/NYC charging is a huge issue! Glad to see you looking at it.
Great info. Thanks Kyle
Flo has a few of those level 2 installation where the cables are hidden locked around Los Angeles. There are none here in Chicago and desperately need em here, especially since there are a number of overwhelming Bolt rideshare drivers clogging DC fast chargers here
Dude the bolt Uber drivers are insane. Literally will plug in and go to sleep for 95+ mins to charge to 100% while there are 10 cars waiting in line.
@@Termnath Out here in Chicago is just as bad except they're all clogging up EA stations and some evGO stations! I have to drive far away from them in order for me to do my nightly charge! I have a video coming up talking about it on my channel very soon! It's so frustrating and i know Uber needs to stop handing out Bolts for rideshare
@@ChargingtheRoad also in Chi. I’m wonder how much of it is a education issue (not understanding that there’s no goddamn reason to spend an hour charging that last 20%) and how much of it is just an asshole issue. We had to knock on a Uber driver’s window to wake her up when she reached 100% and tried to explain to her the charging curve and that there was a line of 10 people behind her and she just very clearly didn’t understand why you wouldn’t charge to 100. Her charge time was 95 fucking mins. Some people thinks it’s like a gas tank, gotta fill up all the way every time. When I had a bolt, I wouldn’t even charge to 80% because it took so long and the curve sharply declines after 55%. Just would do 30 min charge to 55% and do more frequent charges, much faster. In reality, you really shouldn’t own a car like the bolt unless you have home charging, otherwise it just doesn’t make sense. But these Uber programs are just too enticing and have gotten a lot of people in the city without home charging to buy in without them understanding the charging commitment and pain until it’s too late.
Out of 6 stations, 2 were broke, 1 was derated to 38kw, 2 had bolts charging to 100%, and only one was fully operational and bolt free. In the time it took those bolts to go from 70-100, we had 4 cars charge to 80% in the one single fully working one and I plugged in as the 5th car.
It took 2 hrs to charge just because of bolts. Thank god I stuck it out though because by the time I left, the line was made up of 11 bolt Ubers. I mean what do you even do if you pull up to a station and there’s 11 bolts and they’re Ubers !??! That’s going to be half your day.
@@TermnathIt's been a blood bath here in Chi with the Uber Bolt drivers! Many of them I see pull up 50+% SoC and still take 90 minutes to charge 100%! I spoke to one lady and asked why charge to 100% and she said so she doesnt have to come back tomorrow. Then I proceed to ask "when was last time she charged up" and said yesterday smh - i erally think its 40% undeucated 60% dgaf sadly. I was (ironically) driving for Lyft today and spoke to a passenger that has an e-tron sportback and is equally frustrated with Uber Bolts clogging up the stations! I think different measures need to take place for them to limit their charging time by cutting them off after 60 minutes or evem do what Tesla is doign by charging extra fees for going beyond 80% Its really getting obsurd here!
@@ChargingtheRoad really there should be a time tax after 45 mins that keeps increasing the longer they stay. I mean think about even from a business perspective. Why should Electrify America let one bolt charge for 95 mins only to make $20 when 7-8 faster cars could have charged in that time and they could have made $160 from that charger. Really need to limit charging time especially during peak hours. It’s insane that anyone would buy a bolt if they don’t have home charging, they aren’t meant to be DC only cars, it’s inefficient for both the owner and the charging companies.
WoW~! So compacted, nice. The charging stations in Paris are twice the size. Hope NYC can turn out more stations soon. But then, besides the ICEs taking up spaces, how about other EVs fully charged and taking up the parking?
You have to pay by the hour for these chargers. So even if your battery is full you’re still paying like metered parking. Encourages people to move.
Nice installation!
You can see how the ID.4 is designed for charging at a street side and the Tesla isn’t.
It can be frustrating to charge my Model 3 in urban areas.
The Tesla is designed for garage charging which is still the majority of ev owners. If the charging port is located on the passenger side and you leave enough passenger space to the wall for the charging handle to stick out then most garages won’t have enough space left for the driver door to open. Most people park in their garage hugging the passenger side to the wall.
Nice to see the VW with the charging port on the right side. Living in Montreal, I'm sorta used to seeing these chargers everywhere.
The lock mechanism is interesting and definitely needed in some cities. That said the cables add to clutter.
The CCS Type 2 solution where you have BYO cables and the cables lock inside from both ends.
I wonder as US cars move to NACS it might be possible for a BYO NACS to NACS cable given it has similar internal locking.
Fun fact: up until a century ago there were more electric cars in New York running as taxis than there were any other fuelled car. This was because they valued how quiet and smooth they were compared to the equivalent inline 4 cylinder petrol engine. The major reason they went away was partly due to the issue that was mentioned early on in the video by Kyle, that due to the lack of garages, there weren’t many places to charge them off the street, but also to do with lack of stable battery chemistry allowing for long-distance travels without the necessity of charging.
And oil lobby of course
@@conrado800 oh yes mustn’t forget those idiots!
Also too expensive compared to the new ICE cars and range issues.
There aren’t gas stations on every corner in Manhattan so many people go out to NJ or elsewhere to fill up.
We drove our Tesla into NYC in October and the parking lot had a level 2 charger just in case and Kyle had a video about the revel Tesla cab service and where they charge and other charging options, but this is a game changer!
If you don't have a home charger and you have an electric car in NYC I hope you aren't allowed to make decisions for anyone else.
Captain Obvious once said: "Without charging, EV's are useless"
He also said that commercial charging companies charge so much per kWh that deletes most of the cost benefit of an EV.
My EV is charged at home at very low rates so it makes sense. Super easy and super low cost. If I relied on commercial charging, I would never have an EV.
If’s a very important point. NYC electrical charges are already so high that it ends up being on par with gasoline.
I would as maintenance costs are lower for EV's, instant torque, quieter, and usually quicker than equivalent ICE vehicles.
Me along with most everyone I know didn't get a Tesla because of the cost or anything to do with the environment. We got them because of the technology, the way they drive, and mainly the speed and instant torque. Even if it's the same cost to power as a ICE most people would still get the Tesla. If you buy a $50k electric car to save money you don't have much common sense to begin with.
@@nsxmatt You literally just said you got one because you’re only 3”. Whatever works for you, bud. Maybe lay off the steroids.
Another crybaby using youtube comments to try and act tough saying things he'd never say in person. @@afcgeo882
There are 162,000 street corners in NYC, will need more than 100…
Less than half of New Yorkers even have cars, and those that do, less than half have a garage. This would need to be at every corner for it to work, so you can charge overnight on the street with enough for your neighbors as well.
4 per block would be sufficient for the next few years, I think, so two stations per block, one on each side.
Whenever people ask me how I charged my EV for 3 years w/o a garage or driveway access, I first ask them how they fill up gasoline at their house?:)
L2/3 Public charging at stations has not been a major issue here in CA. Home charging is never free, but public (sometimes) can be. Too slow imo anyway.
If you look at lecircuitelectrique here in Montreal, we have over 2000 of them
Here, I rarely have a problem using one
They are all over the city. We have a lot of DC one from flo to 50 kw to 180kw all over and they're doing a test in Laval hundred percent solar system that does 50kw for free
some NYC streets are narrow enough where you may have a driver bump/run over the charger, hence not the biggest fan of the handle, one suggestion is to narrow it and possibly make it a 90 turn.
When I was in Paris over the summer, I saw quite a few streetside charging meters. I don’t know who put them in, but I was surprised at how many I saw..
How long are you here in NYC? Awesome to NY. Love your videos. How long are you in NY
I'm honestly surprised a bazillion cars didn't stop by. I was in Manhattan a few years ago, and could not get away fast enough.
I'm surprised they aren't charging $30.00 per KW, after all.... it is NYC.
They should use removable cables like in Europe to prevent cable theft and damage
We need more public level 2 charging almost more than DC fast charging. The price difference between DC charging and level 2 charging is significant.
Great video… HEY FLO… my 2 chargers that were installed in Whitby Ontario in Canada are still not up and running… 🙏🏼
Two concerns I have. 1) What measures are there to keep the spaces from being ICED and 2) who needs to keep their car plugged in all night to charge?
1. Parking is only authorized for EVs (it’s on the street parking sign in the video.)
2. Everyone.
I don't think these stalls fully solve the problem. Let's say you need to charge 40%, which might take 5 hours. If you plug it in at night it'll finish in the middle of the night. Do you have to go move your car at midnight? How do you then find a parking spot? If you work you can't move it during the day either. This sounds like a huge headache.
For reference, in Flanders Belgium, 6 million people, there are more then 8000 public level 2 street chargers
So that’s one Level 2 charger shared by 750 people? Dependence on public charging, except for on-highway long distance driving, is ridiculously impractical. Private charging facility is essential for practical operation of today’s EVs. Dense urban areas will have to rely on ICE vehicles and public transportation for the foreseeable future.
@@carsonassociates3263 you are wrong, installations simply follow the uptake of EV here. I can only use public charging and I never have an issue finding a free level 2. There will be 25000 charging points by 2025 and more then 100000 by 2030
@@FrankNolf If there are 2.9M households in Flanders, and if only one-in-four households owns only one private automobile, that’s still about one L2 public charger for 100 automobiles. I suspect that most Belgian EV owners, like most American EV owners, operate their own private charging facility. Mass public charging is ridiculously impractical, if not impossible, whether in Flanders or NYC.
@@carsonassociates3263 majority have private charging. Countries like Norway prove it’s not an issue, in cities like Oslo a lot of people rely on public charging and it’s not an issue. City dc fast charging hubs and plenty of level 2 charging. This problem is solved, it’s a matter of good policy and putting the infrastructure in the ground.
@@carsonassociates3263 I think you are thinking that EV charging spots will affect the owning of a car issue in general - the parking issue will always be same. The transition to EV in NYC as Kyle stated will help in other ways (smog , noise and in time less real-estate needed for gas stations to name a few) in high population areas like NYC. Your "mass public charging" is not what is shown here. Level 2 AC charging (while the driver is not needing to use the car) with wide area dispersion in the neighborhoods is a non-issue. The "other" American EV owners will need this public charging option in order to ease the transition off ice. I think the Flanders example is something to learn from.
Flo not having an electric vehicle for their service vehicle is a big miss. Also you missed the obvious question are they changing to NACS, if so when!
Don't know about being so 'epic', but certainly good to see some action here.
Hey the flo technician guy sounds like a Trini (or of Caribbean heritage) yayyyyy 😊✌️👍🇹🇹
Thanks, Kyle. I couldn’t see the top of the standard, but I would imagine a nice street light with a camera would be nice. I also would’ve asked how icing enforcement is conducted by NYC’s meter maids. A slightly unrelated issue that I am obsessed with, is that a power content label should be on every charging dispenser. In other words, does Flow or even ConEd have Renewable Energy resources that they can admit to the grid for customers who are conscious of where their juice comes from. This is something that I have been advocating for with, not only Tesla, but all juice providers.
Would have been neat to see inside the main box, as well as the J1772 tester.
NYC is not a pain to get around, it’s the only city in US with legitimate public transpo option
Never been to Portland, Oregon I see...
@@DblOSmith What, LOL!? 22% of people in Manhattan own cars, compared to 85% in Portland… The solution to too many cars isn’t different cars, it’s reducing the need for cars
@@delxinogaming6046 NYC is not the only city with a legitimate public transportation option. You are incorrect.
😂 Like “Sorry Boston, Sorry El Chicago, Sorry Seattle, Sorry Austin, Sorry Portland, Sorry Salt Lake, and Sorry San Fran.” NYC is the only city with a legitimate public transportation “option.”
30amp 5.8kW doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why not go to 48amp 11kW and churn people through. I'm guessing they probably could only get 80amp connections that would be split against to 2 posts. but load balancing would be nice to better utilize the 80amp that's there.
Cheaper and they don't want it to be that fast. At these speeds you're able to plug in over night.
If the cable management is overhead, why not design the plug end of the cord to orient upward when plugged in so we aren’t scratching up everyone’s cars?
For such progessive city NYC is really behind on charging. The air quality in NYC would really benefit
Flo chargers are slowing showing up here in Washington (the state).
Please make the cable more visible. It lies on the floor and apparently goes at head-height. It should be bright orange and maybe even blinking if possible. Is there a way to make the handle smaller? It sticks out like a sore thumb. And there is nothing in there that justifies the size. Maybe Tesla should have angled adapters? Is there a standard that mandates it to be this huge? Cool with the crash-tests! Can you make the boxes smaller? There is nothing in there. EVSEs are just glorified switches. YES! At work and at night I want 20 wall plugs instead of one 50kw charger. Huge grats on the uptime!
I live in Brooklyn 20 min from Barclays charging have to pay 4 bucks to get In and 16 min from coney no fee parking so I’m good. But I usually just charge at work lol
Where?
Anything that gets more level 2, or even level 1, charging for places where cars are left overnight, or during work hours, is what we need. Level 3 is for road trippers - level 2 and 1 should be at the places where the car is sitting overnight or during work hours.
Should have a look at Ubitricity, In the UK, London has thousands of them all over.
Streetside charging is exactly the reason why a charging port on the left side makes no sense in a country driving on the right-hand side.
Flo please come to Europe. Great design!
The cords should have some high visibility or reflective coating so pedestrians aren’t running into these things.
How about a segment of adapters for non-Tesla EV users to access the Tesla
charging network as January 1st looms ever closer?
I own a house in Brooklyn. The neighbor hood has quite some EVs. Can we request an installation in our area? I would be happy to have this in front of my house.
Come to Las Vegas. Worse than NYC you’re lucky to find ONE 48kw working charger within 30 miles. 250kw? R u kidding me lol. ChargePoint has 7kw chargers here lol
Redesign needed as to why cables are exposed from the box to the top of the post is a serious flaw, should have been routed internally through the post, with minimal exposure of the charging cable from the top of the post.
They look awesome .. but ..I don't see street side charging in a dense city working until after there are MANY dedicated EV charging spaces in parking lots and parking garages first. City streets generally don''t have defined spaced - you park wherever you fit and there will be many collisions. Exception being neighborhoods that aren't that dense, don't have parking garages and few parking lots.
Not to be a pessimist, but I would imagine that most of those would get iced?
Every Flo I’ve tried to use in the Highland Park area of Los Angeles has always been iced.
Definitely getting iced by a paper temp tag or one of those rogue PA plated cars.
Owning a car in New York City is nuts.
living in New York City is nuts
Great video review Kyle! If you want to learn more about what it takes to design a smart-city product like this one, and get it approved for use in the streets of NYC, let me know!
What is the cost per kw that Flo charges? I do not see a point in paying the same rate for level 2 as DC Fast Charging. These charger should be free or extremely low cost. It would be more effective for NYC to provide Level 1 at 20 amps on every street pole, similar to how London handles it.
It would be easy with the European connector (Mennekes) as the cable are designed to be detachable and EV owners can bring their own cables. J1772 unfortunately is not a detachable design and the city will suffer with cable management issues, misuse, damage and vandalism.
@@Jabid21 EU also has 220 volt standard while the US has 120 volt. An ordinary outlet that allows EV owners to plug in for 7 miles an hour would suffice for this application IMO. The city won't need to provide any cables. But it would have to be provided for free. A small price to pay for this green city.
@@harrychu650 or someone just decides to charge their phone or laptop instead. I think putting a nema 14-50 240V outlet would be ideal.
@@Jabid21 Sure a level 2 outlet would be great, but we would be lucky to get Nema 5-15 outlets.
They said a dollar per hour and 6kwh speed so roughly 15 cents per kw. I think something like an orange charger Outlet on every pole would be good. They make 5-20 and 6-20 versions, are cheap, don't need much infrastructure since the pole already has power and they work for billing.
Here's a thought where else they could be installed, how about knocking down those sheds that were put up by restaurants during the COVID epidemic.
Come to Montreal and you'll see THOUSANDS of these street side.
Apparenty theres no CCS in West Va, that migt win in worst charging.
I like the idea, charger design looks awesome but what I don't like is the cords laying close to the ground. In my eyes, late at night, it will be a tripping hazard. Hopefully no one trips on it and the city doesn't get a suit.
This is awesome. I wish they would do Boston next.
Surprising to me that people refer to Flo as reliable? All of their 50kW chargers in Vancouver are now running at 30kW due to some defect and the prices are still per-minute, so I simply avoid flo chargers now.
What about being "ICEd" ? In a city where you can't park over night how do you charge over night?
How many times did you have to loop around the block to get that spot...
If they put in 80 amp chargers then people could get a week's worth of power quickly and cycle out to a different parking spot to let someone else recharge... more cars filled per day per spot
This is nice to see. Hopefully there will be more like this in the future. Once it becomes more common, maybe we will see less gas cars and non-charging EVs blocking charging spots.
Great start...now build about 5 million more of those
Surprised to see a tethered AC public charger - surely this makes it more prone to damage & vandalism.
To drive any vehicle,i don't to have to know everything about batteries or charging,i like to focus my mental power on more important things.
I like the idea of curbside level 2 charging. But, right now, it looks like it's essentially just a pilot project to test out equipment and work out kinks. In order to really scale, New York will essentially need chargers like this at almost every parking space on every block, citywide.
As the charging scales up, the topic of parking management is only going to get more difficult. In particular, if more and more of the street is restricted to EV charging only, that leaves ICE vehicles with nowhere to park. My personal opinion is that the sweet spot is a world where ICE vehicles *are* allowed to park next to chargers, but only by paying the same hourly parking rate that an EV driver would be paying to charge up their car. If the chargers fill up literally every parking space across the entire block and the parking rate is set to match the market price for parking on that block at various times of day, any EV driver in need of electricity and willing to pay the parking fee will be able to get it, while any vehicle (EV or ICE) in need of a parking space, willing to pay the parking fee, would also be able to get it.
Such a rate would likely be high enough that those parking solely for the electricity (e.g. drivers who have a reserved garage space nearby that does not have charging) would find it not worth it, and be able to charge their car for less by visiting a DC charger elsewhere. I think that's fine as the NYC real estate the car sits on is worth way more than level 2-speed electricity, and there is no way to make such a person happy without under-pricing the parking to the point where there's never anything available. But, for people that rely on street parking, at least finding a charger would be no more difficult than the (admittedly not easy) task of finding street parking such drivers already have to deal with.
Interesting idea
I'd like to see these all be converted to NACS.
I checked the Plugshare scores of these sites. Not surprisingly, it's almost all ICE'ing issues that bring down the scores. It's great to have mobile crews that inspect the chargers on a schedule, that's what it takes to keep them up. It's also cool that they aren't all surrounded by a forest of bollards. Flo has chosen instead to make them impact tolerant. Now, NYC just needs to 10x the number of these chargers, and combine that with the kind of streetlight charging that's done by companies like Ubitricity in London.
You will find ubitricity lamp post charging in London and other European cities because the installed electrical infrastructure is 230 volts. Most American posts are only 110 v and can only support the light. 120 volts only became standard in the 1970s. LA does have 240 v lamp posts and they did actually some ubitricity lamp posts in a trial. Haven’t heard of this was successful and planning to be expanded though.
I use Volta chargers in general around Philly/DE. They are new and always working. One time, I couldn't get an open spot. The Nissan dealership is busy charging its own cars. An airport hotel has a broken Tesla, so the J-1772 is used.
Anyway, make a video about the Christiana Mall in Delaware with its many chargers. Tesla owners stare at my Fiat and think I iced them!!! Ha!
Best is the Maryland Transit Authority, MTA Park N Ride at Marsh Creek Mall. It is free to use with Level 2 ChargePoint and park. Take the $2 bus to John Hopkins and save 34 miles, plus my car was recharged in 3.33 hours when I returned. Saved $8 parking garage fee. Got the disability price of $1 each way! 😊😊😊
I have 5 months of FREE EV charging since owning my Fiat 500E!
Flo is the most predatory charging network out there. They require a 15 dollar payment for an RFID card here in Canada. No, not for a replacement, but for your first card🤯. Honestly, I haven't gotten over that initial experience. Very gross business practice.
I have 6 other RFID card in my car, and they were all free.
These are early days still. No technology or infrastructure has ever been born fully formed, totally dispersed, nor perfect.
I see nothing but good here, as Flo, ConEd, and NYC start an exciting journey down this path of providing useable, reliable and available charging infrastructure in that amazing city!
Terrific video, Kyle!
I see nothing but bad. They're an eyesore and a hazard, worse than even those silly rental app scooters that litter our streets. Just imagine city streets being lined with these things in the future.
@@AkioWasRightit's funny cuz your reply can just as easily be talking about gas pumps or street parking
@@rexyoda We're not proposing installing gas pumps up and down streets.
Such a doltish reply.
@@AkioWasRightthey started in Québec, in Montreal they have many thousands of these chargers, basically every few blocks and its awesome.
@@rexyoda Easily? Where are curb-side gas pumps in NYC??? I'd love to see that.
NYC is the ideal place to design urban street side charging. Like they say "if you can make it there you can make it anywhere".