Public Charging an EV Can Really Suck - Here’s Why!
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Non-Tesla EV terminals should be built to resemble gas pumps with a credit card slot and no app required. But everyone in the EV charging world wants user data.
EA stations have a card swipe. I think that should be standard.
@@philhyde983 No, Every charger should just work without any terminals. I paid my car and my dealer or manufacturer has my credit card info. CCS knows my VIN, there must be a central FINON that handles all purchases for my car. No matter what. I don‘t need no bloody terminal. I hav a car and a fixed ID. And please don‘t tell me EA or EVGo can not do this. GM advertises it for their cars. Only - of course - you must PAY EXTRA FOR IT. Robbers! Torys! Bandits!
@@wolfgangpreier9160 LOLOLOL
Some kind of rewards account where you input your phone number and then you use your CC would work, just like at the supermarket. It doesn't add too much complication. However I can see potential for abuse from "subscription based discounts" like from Electrify America with family and friends sharing 1 subscription. But yeah there needs to be a law saying there has to be a CC terminal and reward programs are optional.
@@SunnyWu You want to tell me that you would like to condemn Tesla to install a useless terminal at every Supercharger stall? And of course you want us to pay for it? I don't think so.
Same exact thing I experienced at Electrify America and the e-tron I had for a year. Got rid of it and went back to a gas car.
It’s worse when you are traveling with friends and it’s 90+ degrees outside. I rarely see a charging station with shade.
I don’t want to play the odds on whether the one charger is going to work during a road trip.
The infrastructure is soo far behind and the current players have no clue what they are doing.
charge at home. 99% of trips do not need public charging. Or do you drive 300+ miles every day?
@@johns4651 80% of stats are made up.
This was painful to watch. When can we see the director's cut with the profanities? You deserve a medal for keeping your temper!
Wow, I got frustrated just watching too...
O. M. G. Are you kidding me? At this point I can’t figure out if Roman is actually stupid or he’s actually against EVs. Because he insists on being intentionally dense when it comes to EV fast charging and seems to be more interested in spreading FUD.
@@greengrass89 what was "intentionally dense" or stupid about Roman when a STUPID app was obviously not working?? Are you kidding, dude?? Did you even watch the video?? These STUPID chargers need a simple credit card reader just as everything else (fuel pumps, vending machines, car washes, etc.) and the whole pain in the ass would have been avoided.
haha I'm wanting to see the director's cut, too!
Well said 👏
We have had an EV since the Leaf came out. We only level II charge at home. Our EV is our second car and we never even think of exceeding the range of our EV. I wouldn’t buy an EV as our primary vehicle until the US implements viable fast charging. Roman, your patience is a thing to behold! Another great and informative video.
The whole idea of having two vehicles when you really don't need to, shows how stupid the idea of EV's really are and sheep like you don't get it!
I don't see why the Government should be involved in it. You made the decision, the taxpayers should not be in that game at all.
Even with a huge network of chargers 1) when you get there, is the charger working? 2) is there already a car plugged into it that plans to sit there 8 hours before you get your turn? I have this horrible feeling the days of waiting a few minutes for a fuel pump to open up are long over. We could be waiting HOURS on a charge line before you get your turn just to sit there another X amount of hours.
@@grazz7865 We have now heard from the peanut gallery. Next
@@BioniqBob everyone has a right to their opinion-even you
Ran into the same issues with EVGO helping a stranded driver recently. Very honest and balanced video.
Balanced video? Where was the “balance” in the video? Why purchase an ELECTRIC VEHICLE if all you plan to do is directly compare it to an ICE experience and complain about what’s different? There are pros & cons to _everything._ A “balanced” video would highlight this. What about the pros of an EV compared to the cons of a ICE vehicle for a more balanced video? No?? Oh ok, his temper tantrum was _so_ balanced including the thumbnail. He must be doing a great job according to you. 😂
@@mybro727 it's really hard to defend an EV vehicle,it really can't stand on it's own merits. different is not better.
@@billw8476 Not really, especially when you’ve taken your time and designed world class products. Unlike the Ford Lightning’s copy/paste watered down ICE F-150 design, the the GMC Hummer EV, Cadillac Lyriq, Chevrolet Blazer EV, and Cadillac Celestiq all speak for themselves. Tesla, Ford, and Rivian can’t even compete with the design language alone.
@@mybro727 What are the pros to turning up to a charger, being unable to use a card, being unable to sign up for app, being unable to add a card to the app?
We've all been there and had experiences like this trying to charge.
@@mybro727 At the end of the day it is all about convenience. This type of experience, along with how long it takes to charge, is why BEV's will remain a niche product. People want the convenience of quick in and out. And that means a quick refueling experience. Makes hydrogen the obvious alternative to gasoline and diesel.
Like you I have road tripped across America. I have never not been able to charge. I have like you had to move to another charger and had sign up for an account at the charger but I have never not been able to charge. Most of the time I use Electrify America because I got a couple of years of free charging with my car. I actually prefer EVgo which works great with the RFID card that you get with the account.
Charging port opens like a rusted old drawer. Unacceptable for a $60k+ luxury vehicle.
Why does it need a motor to open the door? Just another failure point waiting to happen.
I hope some folks from EVGo are watching this video. In fact, all of the charging network manufacturers should be watching this video & determine why they felt the need to make their experience so complicated.
Anyone can review an EV, but TFL is doing the real work. TFL highlights the logistics involved in the ownership experience.
You can avoid some of the frustration by charging at home. Sure. But many or maybe most that can use an EV as a daily driver live in a metro area and RENT their home. And even if a home owner can avoid this frustration most of the time, it will be a source of frustration at least occasionally.
It's these types of videos that are most valuable to me as a viewer. Thanks!
I agree. There is a learning curve and growing pains that every EV owner will have to deal with but setting up a valid payment method should not be this difficult.
Everyone can't charge at home. It's either impossible, or too expensive to install chargers at condo/apartments.
I had a similar experience in Canada with flo and Ivy Charge. I did eventually get the flo station to work but it was almost as painful as your video. Also one DC charger only delivered 25kW while the second one delivered about 50kW. Both claimed to deliver much more and charged by the minute. The sign up procedures were extremely painful and very annoying. I totally agree, a credit card should be all that is required.
This is why I think fast charging has a long way to come and is basically only for exceptional long range use cases right now. A phone shouldn't get involved anywhere unless you're using mobile payments. Let me pay for this like I pay for everything else.
but thats not how the tech industry works.. they need you to download an app... so they can take your data and sell it.
Yea why can't these stations just put a damn card reader on the thing?!
Do yourself a favor and buy a Tesla. They figured all of this out YEARS AGO!!!!!!! World wide network that's doesn't require any input. Just pull up and plug in.
@@sam8307 Wow, the only solution that's even worse!
The is my frustration with cafe standards being upped; forcing manufacturers to make electric cars but in the US we are so far behind on the infrastructure for charging it’s not even funny.
This is how you do it. I am 52. Well sick of the technology. I myself had to learn to deal with all of the loop holes. Meaning to learn them. I spent years trying to achieve only one thing. To make everyone's life easier. On EV charging. You know where you will travel. Look up every charging station available. Every single one. Then while your at home and have the time. Sign up for every app. Then when your out. That charging station app is already on your cellphone. Then pay and charge. Do not be out and then do it. You buy an EV. Spend the time of looking at all different charging stations. Get their apps. Then go pickup your new EV. Then also know which ones will work. What plug adapter you will need. Keep it simple.
It's videos like this that convinced me to buy a Tesla, instead of any other non-Tesla EV.
This is a joke. Cadillac Lyriq owners will do most of their charging at home. The Model Y is a overpriced over engineered block of metal compared to a base model Lyriq for the same money.
@@mybro727 Correct. I do most of my charging at home also. However, I've taken MANY long-haul road trips... because I know I can with no issue charging.
@@ncryptd You must road trip *a lot.* I travel a lot for work but with 300+ miles of range and advanced EV focused infotainment system like what’s found in this new Cadillac Lyriq, I just can’t justify myself paying Tesla’s premium for a less premium product and experience solely because of the charging infrastructure while talking a road trip. Tesla has so much more work to do before they can get my money.
@@mybro727 wouldn’t all those features be pointless if you can’t go anywhere? The main point of a vehicle is to get somewhere. Who wants to go somewhere thinking look how cool my car is, but who cares if I can’t charge it when I’m out?
@@KGTv123 Lol. You’re absolutely right. Thank goodness the Cadillac Lyriq _can_ be charged when you’re out and thanks to over 300 miles of range it will effortlessly go anywhere a more expensive Tesla Model Y can go. It’s also effectively chargeable on-the-go at 190 kW with DC fast charging which allows 76 miles of range in just 10 mins as well as offering nearly class leading charging speeds *at home* at 19.2 kW for level 2 home charging where, again, majority of the charging will take place.
The Tesla fanboys literally sound like the Right Twix - Left Twix commercials, the absolute dumbest reasons (no real reason(s) at all) to choose a Tesla over it’s competitors unless that’s just simply the “design” you prefer.
I'm done with electric cars, I went back to gasoline because of all hassle associated with electric cars and trucks ! No more for me , I've learned my lesson and my " ELECTRIC CAR ANXIETY SYNDROME IS GONE " ... Happy days are here again !!
0:56 that charge door opening is everything you need to know about the quality of this car
I was expecting the opposite so I laughed when it got stuck and banged open. At least the panels are nicely aligned 🙄
@@TheAdventureAuto😂
Yeah that looked pretty bad.
Haha good ole GM!
LOL I noticed the same thing. Wow, tell me that's a pre-production problem.
In Europe, the cost to charge is almost as much to fill a tank, except charging will take an hour of your time
I feel your pain! When I first got my EV 3.5 years ago, I quickly learned how bad those apps were and how many different apps I needed. It's a pain and I wished there was a standard way to pay to charge. I think allowing CC without the app should be mandatory, just like at gas stations.
One of the consequences of all these different chargers is that seeing an EV charger in a parking lot means nothing to me now since I do not know if it's free or which app I'll need to use it. I already have a few accounts so I'm reluctant to download and signup for more.
"I think allowing CC without the app should be mandatory, just like at gas stations"
But.... it's not mandatory. It doesn't have to be - that's how gas stations make their money, by making things as convenient as possible.
But you know the drill. They want all that information about you so they can sell it. It's part of their business plan. In fact, it may be the main part of their business plan.
@Jose Alberto Rosa-Suliveres I do see a lot of merits with Plug in Hybrids but it still has downsides. Having two types of motors and fuels means much more complexity so much more things to fail. Also, I really doubt gas prices are going to ever be reasonably low since we have no real authority to lower gas prices.
@Jose Alberto Rosa-Suliveres EVs also need to work for all the people who live in sub-zero northern territories. Those who plow snow. Haul wood, etc. All of these comments are from city cesspool and urban nightmare residents, with no idea of how the real world works.
@@nathanlambshead4778 Wow plowing snow and hauling wood means you live in the real word... who would've guessed.
Here in Canada we have a really good network called Flo. It does use an app but the app works. We also have Petro Canada which is putting in fast charges along our main highways at the gas stations. To start these charges just tap your credit card or as I did use Apple Pay. Same paying method as using their gas pump.
I'm in the camp of "I would do 90%+ of my charging at home so this wouldn't apply the majority of the time". It is very sad and frustrating to see though.
That still leaves 1 out of 10 times you'd have to put up with this.
Yeah but try to plan a road trip across the US. When you stop at little towns with questionable charging stations, what do you do? Thats gonna be a problem for the next few years at least. The problem will get easier with time for sure, but right now its a huge pain point for current EV buyers.
That "other" 10% must be a b*tch. I have 100% success fueling my hybrid.
This is why I maintain that my ev would need 300+ miles. I refuse to take part in public charging and we regularly commute 200 miles in all weather and speed conditions.
@@TheV8nissan Word
Took a 3600mi road trip from central Missouri to Las Vegas last year in my Tesla and didn't have any charging issues. Cost $135 if I had to pay for all charging (spent 3 nights in hotels that had free level 2 charging of guests). The longest charging stop was 20min, after taking a pee at each stop, cleaning the windshield and logging the charging session for my records it was off to the races. Seligman Az to Kingman Az on RT-66 is a must see as is Williams Az for the RT66 experience.
Tesla is currently the best way to go for the all around Ev experience. It look like the rest of the industry will take time to catch up.
Exactly
Great video. I primarily blame Facebook and Google for creating the Business Model from Hell for consumers. EVERYBODY wants to monetize your data. Every app wants access to your most personal data regardless of the service. My email is bombarded with marketing, I get texts from companies I never interacted with. Not to mention all the tracking these companies are engaged in to get even more information and data. I jumped from the fire into the frying pan when I disconnected cable, every tiny little shit station has a subscription. “Are you still watching?” from tv subscriptions are beyond brazen. Apple Pay helped a lot but the barbarians are beating at the door to remove their encrypted protections. Data mining is BIG BUSINESS and our laws are not keeping up.
the scariest part is all that data being chared isnt secured. sure there is a token vs name.... but that token leads back to your name.
companies dont secure info unless it is a naked CC # or a SSN. everything else they are free to store in plain text and sell to shady companies (why you are getting texts) who dont even bother to secure their servers!
True that. And I work for Google.
I guess I'll plan on signing up for every possible charging brand and carrying all 30 cards on me at all times.
@@DNHarris man, I hope not! I’m still hoping America can create a system closer to Germany and Norway’s excellent infrastructure described by TeslaBorne and Out of Spec Reviews.
Thank you for spelling it out.
Holy moly! No wonder non-Tesla EVs are piling up at dealerships. Dealing with multiple app-based charging systems is a complete mess, unlike the convenience of Tesla charging. Thank you so much for documenting this frustrating process. The success of non-Tesla charging networks will heavily rely on simplicity and a plug-and-charge experience similar to Tesla's.
My recollection is that once you have the app installed and a payment method configured, you can just hold the phone up to the NFC pad on the charger to start charging. Which isn't obvious either, but I recall having done this. You will receive an NFC card in the mail that you can use instead. When I signed up, I was doing all of this stuff while I was sitting at home, so it was far less frustrating. But a new car owner might not think to do this - you would sort of need to scope out what brands of chargers are prevalent in the area where you are, and focus on signing up for those first.
If you were to buy a Tesla, you would still need to create a Tesla account and configure a payment method. Maybe some of that is sort of built into the buying process, but there are steps that one would need to take before you can charge.
So much to say here:
1) I didn't watch the whole lightning video, but I agree there was some fumbling I'd not have done myself in what I did see
2) I don't think this was the problem, but generally when using google/apple pay you have to hold the phone there longer. I suspect it still would've failed, but knowledge is power
3) The way companies approached charging here is totally crap. Either they should have tech-ed it up and created a standard whereby vehicles handshake with chargers, exchange information stored in the vehicle for payment, and auto-submit it for you, actually making the experience better than gas stations, or just make gas pumps but for electricity.
Instead, they decided "we have a new opportunity to farm data, let's all make shitty proprietary apps, require users have data signal, set up accounts which have the potential to be compromised, etc. And it course we'll all have different ones because screw consumers". It is absolutely infuriating.
What is sad is that I even have a proprietary app for a gas station, shell. Why? Because while I CAN still fill up normally, it takes longer to scan rewards, discount, then my card with PIN. The app lets me save all that, and since they're always the cheapest in my town, it's worthwhile for me to do it. But I don't have to, and that's the point. If my phone is dead, if there's no data signal (happens a lot when you drive around rural Canada), etc. I can still get gas and keep going without hassle. I love tech and I love the idea of EVs, we have clean energy here, instant torque is awesome, and electric motors are more efficient at turning energy into forward drive. But I'm getting a new car and it ain't an EV for 2 reasons;
- offroad ability
- more relevant here, charging. I don't want an aneurysm every time I go out far enough to require fast charging, which with my lifestyle is dozens of times a year.
They should have all these EV charging accounts set up. They know they can driving reviewing cars in a lot of states, very unprofessional.
@@casey2009 No, they shouldn't. There should be no need for the account in the first place. The best the account does is allow for reservations.
My sister owns a new Tesla & we just bought out first EV in a Nissan Leaf. My sister mentioned the amazing amount of needless hate that people have for EV owners. I have seen several instances of ICE cars parked in EV spaces blocking public chargers & I saw a photo recently of a guy using his ICE car to block ALL 3 EV parking spaces in a parking garage. I charge at home using the 120V 60HZ outlet in my garage to charge my car in the driveway. One benefit is that having your electric car in your garage over the winter gives you the motivation to clean all of the junk out of your garage.
Bought a Tesla for its charging network and potential Full Self Driving. These charging nightmares happen way too often. And how stupid of Cadillac to debut their EV in a location with no (and even if sucessful, painfully slow) charging.
I don't think Cadillac was trying to demo evgo charging. Roman should stick to evaluating the lyric and not have his own agenda. He's too whiny for this sort of thing.
@@kevinhickman50 I think this video is fine
@@kevinhickman50 re: "I don't think Cadillac was trying to demo evgo charging." exactly, GM chose Park City and brought those fancy Hydrogen Fuel Cell mobile charging rigs ($$$) along with them for a REASON. re: "Roman should stick to evaluating the lyric and not have his own agenda." Kev's got a point, and those with good attention spans and good listening skills knows Roman did basically "confess" (on video) that both he and his cameraman were GOING ROUGE at 0:28
I wonder if GM didn't want to be somewhere where it could be charged at 190 kW but then a random tester proved it couldn't.
GM thinking ahead ...lol.
I have recently learned that in the UK, thieves are removing(cutting-off) the charging station cables, to sell the copper in them. They only make a few dollars from each cable, but the replacement of the cables cost thousands. I haven't heard if this is starting to happen in the U.S., but is now standard practice across the pond. Catalytic converter theft is common in the U.S., so cable theft in the future is another thing to worry about.
Within the first week of owning my Nissan Leaf, I swore off public charging stations. Over half don't work, and the ones that do are often complicated. You can’t just scan your credit card and type in your zip code. You often have to scan a QR code, sometimes you have to install an app and create a user name and password. Then you have to manually type in your credit card, expiration date, email, phone number, etc. And sometimes after all that, they give an error. Additionally, they are often in weird places where there is nothing to do but wait. Some are VERY difficult to find. And of course, they have outrageously high charges, often 4 times higher than electricity at a residence, making charging my EV more expensive than filling up my 4runner. If I have to travel, I use my 4runner. EV’s are not ready for mainstream use… yet.
I think the whole family will enjoy this experience,especially small children. In the desert heat.
I have a Tesla. I have no trouble with any Tesla superchargers. I have tried to use several third party chargers and got two out of 6 to work. Not good. And need so many apps. Why not just be like a gas station. Accept credit cards and be done with it.
Mercedes has done a fantastic job with Mercedes Me charge, integrated with Chargepoint and Electrify America (with more integrations coming). I just plug in and my EQS starts charging. No hassle at all.
You are right. This is why we got a Tesla. Too many 500-mile trips to chance this experience. It’s a shame because there are some other compelling EV options out there. Regardless, we’re very happy with our Model Y.
It’s one thing that Tesla (I’d say) got indisputably right
How many times a year are you traveling 500 miles🤔…………because probably only about 1% of Americans are doing that more than twice a year?!
We do a 1,000-mile round trip once a month. The supercharger network sealed the deal. If it wasn’t for that, we would have gone for another ICE vehicle. Otherwise for daily driving, we never come close to maxing the range, even on a 60-70% charge.
As much as people complain about how much a Tesla costs, for what they get physically with the car, I tell them they're not paying for a luxury car, they're paying for the best proprietary tech and the best charging network. It's pretty much as close as we're going to get to an Apple car (well until Apple decides they want to pay Magna to make them a car or they start doing Tesla's software / hardware). Buying anything but a Tesla and you're in Windows / Android territory, which I'm fine with since I prefer right to repair / upgrade with anything I buy.
Well as Chinese competition starts to smoke Apple with their charging speed same will happen to Tesla and at least in Europe Tesla uses CCS and is step by step opening up their net work.
EnBw a German CPO has acces to the most charging stations in Europe for a fixed price except for Ionity and charging at one of their stations is slightly cheaper. Also they offer plug&charge with cars that support that communication. So you plug in your car and that's it. It'll start charging and the charging station recognises your car and will send you the bill or to whomever the bank account is written to.
So all in all an EnBw card and plug&charge option is perfect for a company car.
I feel the pain you experienced about a month ago when i bought my first EV. However, unless like you i did call customer service that is what they are there for. If you wanted to make a video showing the full experience you should have called and they could have walked you through. That is what I had to do. Once i had their assistance i had ton issues. Now, should it be this difficult? NO, but.. once shouldn’t be opposed to calling to get help when needed. Those are the same errors i was getting and yes it’s frustrating but a 5 min call solved it all.. so don’t give up on it. Now i just charge at home.
If Tesla hadn't created their own network, this would have been all Tesla owners as well. But everybody out there gives Tesla a hard time for doing so. Tesla has always been about paving their own way and thank god they did.
I think Tesla is full of shit when they say they want more people to adopt EVs but they don't, they want more people to adopt TESLAS and they do that with their proprietary charging network.
@@jaybeemhardscrote7466 Tesla promoting Tesla what a shocker that must be to that one brain cell of yours.
@@jaybeemhardscrote7466 BS, Tesla is offering charging to all ev's in Europe already.
@@jaybeemhardscrote7466 So it's Tesla's fault for making charging stations that work and expanding the network as fast as they possibly can? All while spending their own money to do so. You think they wouldn't want to take care of their own customers first? Imagine if CCS third party stations actually worked, you think Tesla would have a problem with that? No.
It's not a proper argument to make - there were no DC fast charging stations because there are no evs to charge, so why bother. They had no choice but to make their own setup. But no one wants a charging setup where each OEM makes their own system, any more than you would want to go to a GM gas station to fill.
What happens when you pull up to a charging station and theres 5 cars ahead of you? The people buying these cars also think no animals were harmed getting that steak!
Tesla figured all that out. Genius. I've never had any issues supercharging for 2 years owning a tesla. I have a evgo account too. It's not as easy as tesla. Also found evgo chargers offline a few time. In my tesla, I can tell how many chargers are open before getting there. So awesome tesla.
Yep
Gotta wonder the tonnage of dirty coal that has to be burned to power a "clean" EV over its lifetime.
When I ordered my Tesla I gave them my info including my credit card number to make the down payment. The app used for my Tesla Powerball automatically got the car portion added on. When I drove the car a few hundred miles home I stopped at my first Tesla charger ever. All I had to do was shove the plug into the car's port an walk away from it; everything automatic.
We already knew it was going to be an issue, no surprise. What was a surprise to me after watching your lightning delivery & road-trip back to Colorado was just how many of the chargers that weren’t cooperating. I’ve seen enough videos to know it can be a crap shoot when it comes to getting a functional fast charger when you show up to a station. In 15 years the charging tech, battery life and infrastructure will be much more worth it. Until then, I’m gonna stay away 😷
With a Tesla you have no issue, plug and charge.
@@RemoteSpeed007 With a Tesla you have poor quality control and customer service with zero options for anything other than a “car” more people than not want actual buttons knobs and gages directly in front of you where they belong.
@@Captndarty Which Tesla do you own?
@@RemoteSpeed007 thankfully none. Been in them all done plenty of research. Many neighbors and friends have them and discuss all the quirks and issues. Much rather have a lucid or a number of other actual automaker designed EV’s. Just for your own personal edification.
Lyriq supports plug and charge with evgo. Just sayin.
Can you imagine if Shell, Exxon, Mobil, Sunoco etc all demanded that you use their app to buy their gas? They'll see riots
Finally, I looked all over on TH-cam for someone to show pulling up to a public charger, paying, and showing the cost. This one showed that you have to use apps and was pretty hard to load, not to mention if you had internet problems. Lots of bugs to work out.
Thank you for sharing your completely valid frustrations, I'm all in on EVs, and I find this so painful and frustrating to watch - it's important, and ALL these companies need to do better. I believe Tesla will open up their system in the next year or two, and while, for non Tesla's this will still need an App, account, email, credit card etc. at least it is reliable. Keep up the honest reporting.
People are having issues with broken chargers all over the country. Metal thieves will figure out there's alot of easy to take copper in the cords and youll see a bunch of useless charger s missing thier cords.
If Tesla can make a seamless charging system for their own cars, why can't that happen for other ones? Or, why can't it be as easy as getting gas... Tap/swipe/insert a card and start charging. I don't want an app to charge my car, I just want to pay for my charging and get on with it.
Well getting billions into debt is not a wise business plan for any company
@@naughtysauce4323 I feel that the best solution would be for the existing CCS charging companies to start integrating credit card payment into their chargers. No phone needed.
@@upnorth7497 re: "integrating credit card payment into their chargers." they had those from the very beginning but they DON'T WORK for one reason or another. hell I've even had BRAND NEW MACHINES NOT WORK. a new 2 unit DCFC location was recently announced here in Philadelphia (a major East Coast City) on the 6 o'clock news so for "shits and grins" i went there to try it out, but guess what not a damn thing worked. I don't mean the units were dead and without power, no, the units were indeed brand new, shiny, with screens that were lit up and active, but still could not get the damn things to connect (yes i tried both).
Tesla works because it has to work with one interface
when your phone is broken or you do not have mobile internet you are stuck.
Ugh, I feel your pain. I have a Tesla Model Y, and for the most part superchargers usually works. I have ran into non-working ones, but Tesla will usually get them fixed fairly quickly.
That said, I also have the CHAdeMO adapter, and have tried out at least 4 different DC fast charging companies. 3 of them worked, but 1 didn’t. I didn’t need the charge much like in this video. But it was in the middle of nowhere too, and had I not of charged up at a supercharger before going there, I could’ve potentially been stranded.
I really hate that all of these different companies require their own specialized app, and honestly I probably won’t even use then again. It would’ve been nice if they had a credit card reader so you could just swipe/insert that to start the transaction.
This is why I’m always skeptical when all of these so-called “Tesla killer” EV’s show up. Yes, those EV’s might do a few things better than a Tesla. But when you consider the entire package, Teslas give you a lot of bang for your buck, such as Autopilot, over the air updates, built-in entertainment options such as Netflix and TH-cam, the seamless integration with the app and the superchargers never requiring you to pull a credit card out to charge. There’s also camp mode for those who want to sleep in their Tesla on a trip or if their power is out, and Dog mode to keep your dog cooled on hot days, and warm on cold days.
That’s on top of the high safety ratings all Teslas get, and the performance for the price. And the supercharger network, which makes traveling long distances fairly trivial and mundane.
Hope this problem can get fixed.
That was even painful to watch. Wow, so glad I bought a Tesla. Before any of these companies get government money they should have to meet an ease of use standard. Imagine if buying gas required an app and all that sign up?
The reason they are so set on getting user data, is because they make such a small amount of money per minute (or per hour, whatever you prefer). If you look at the total cost of charging for the hour that you are actually charging, and take out the cost of electricity, plus the cost of manufacturing, installing, and maintaining the charging station, there is very little money left for profit. So they are mining your person data.
This is a perfect example of the K.I.S.S. principle. If it was simply a card reader and a key pad like a pump, doing away with the app nonsense, people would be a lot more likely to use "off brand" charging
I think these charging stations will become the hot spots for holdups and car theft
We bought an EV a month ago and I live in Germany and have had no issues so far. In the city, there are about 10 charging stations per square kilometer and a lot of chargers just take contactless debit cards or you just need to scan a QR-code and enter credit card info. Now in a rural area like mine, you only got charging stations in larger settlements. So the next ones to where I live are about eight kilometers away. They are mostly 50 or 100 kW DC-chargers. Though some villages only have 22 kW AC-chargers. On another note, you are billed by the kWh and not by the minute.
It is definitely easier to set up an app at home or office when you are not "under pressure" to get a charge. But even at that, you are right about the state of public charging stations.
I bought my EV and the first thing I did was signed up for every charging station in my area. Took me half an hour. Credit card readers are common points of failure and sabotage (skimmers)
Huh. We drove my wife’s VW ID.4 PRO on a 1,500 mile road trip to the North Rim of the Grand Canyon and Zion National Park (both very remote and not loaded with charging stations!) without difficulty. We used EA for all the stops, except in Kanab UT, as there were no EA chargers after St. George. It took maybe five minutes to get it set up and going, but a few days later at the same place, we charged up without issue.
I’m not sure why anyone would aimlessly drive around, hoping and praying to find a charging station, when there are apps that will tell you exactly where they are and other important details. That was how we found all our EA chargers, and the ChargePoint in Kanab. Driving around hoping to find some place, somewhere, seems naive, at best. But, hey, you do you! Not an approach I would take.
My Tesla on the other hand plots all that out. I used the cars Navigation to find each and every of my charging stops on my recent 5,500+ mile cross country trip. Worked flawlessly.
Hope you have better charging in the future!
I greatly appreciate your honesty on this Ch as TFL & that’s why I follow. Won’t be getting one anytime soon & safe travels on trip to Alaska
For now hybrid is the best way to go I think!good video is always 👍🏽
My significant other would NEVER give up her PII for a "fill-up", no matter what. First of all, she doesn't install apps on her phone. And she doesn't use work data on personal devices or vice versa. She's a great example of how security and privacy should function. Paying at the pump should be the same. We should all have security and privacy and anonymity when we fill up. We shouldn't have to stand at the gas station, fill out a 5-page survey on how we feel about filling up at their station before they allow us to get gas, which is what you have to do if you actually read their End User License Agreement, like you're actually supposed to since you're legally liable for authorizing the usage on their service. You're signing a contract with them to power your vehicle which you likely have already outright bought. That is nonsense and asinine to think we're having to give up all of our freedoms in this country to save the world?
I was getting severe anxiety watching you try to get the app to work. This is how things work today in the hi-tech world today. Sorry you had to go through that experience.
This whole system of adding apps to your phone, verifying your email, responding with codes sent to you in text messages , and having only a limited number of payment methods really sucks.
PCI compliance is a huge reason this is so difficult. Unmanned credit card readers would be a huge liability for skimmer and shimmers. The app is needed to safeguard against fraud and identity theft.
Are CC reader equipped vending machines difficult? Any identity theft while buying water at airport or Costco?
Cadillac needs to really establish a national charging network and fast...
It's ridiculous for any new EV not to support 200+ kWh DC fast charging. Tesla (and Porsche) continues to lead the way with their latest cars and V3 supercharging.
Kia/Hyundai as well.
these charging station really needs to adopt plug and go system, which you plug in your car, it's automatically recognize who's car it's belongs to and charge the credit card on file.
Roman is slightly better than my mom with the tv and vcr.
Funny, Roman says that’s the same thing she told him last night
@@TFLEV Are you saying Roman is cheating on his wife?
The question is, why didn't he use a credit card like he mentioned he would have at a gas station. I'm guessing that would have probably worked. The app should not be that glitchy, but this whole video seems to not be completely honest. Also, he's been testing ev's for how long now, and still doesn't have evgo set up on his phone??
@@cormachondros right ! Tommy would of had it ready to go.
@george ion my guess is it’s one of the new guys reading and commenting . Roman is wishing for the trx back and eating a cheese burger. Thinking about the next drag race.
Boy, lots of interesting comments. I feel you, Roman, as a man of a similar age who is not afraid of technology and would like to see all of these apps be more intuitive and stable, I suspect real issue here is cell service in Park City (where I lived, so I’m familiar with the issue), which is not an uncommon issue. Setting up all of these apps at home, with Wi-Fi, works much better. But why should I need an app at all? If these are supposed to be the gas stations of the future, why can’t I just swipe my card and not have to give up all of my personal info just to fill up my car. That’s actually what’s ridiculous to me. If I choose to sign up for the app, that’s my business, if I don’t, I shouldn’t be locked out of a third-party charging system. Most of the time, my Tesla (replaced with a PHEV) was charged at home and otherwise at Tesla Superchargers that I had to have the app to use, but then I needed the app to do anything with my Tesla, so it was no more onerous that it was required to use the superchargers. I suspect that I’ll wait at least another couple of years before I go BEV again, just so all this crap with the charging networks can get a little better sorted. The truck won’t be an EV until I can tow 500 miles without having to spend 2+ hours recharging along the way to get there. Still, I do think EVs are great and can’t wait for more the crap to be worked out.
One of the best pieces of advice for a new EV owner is to setup accounts with EA, EVGo, ChargePoint, and any others you may use before you need them. With the number of EVs that TFL has owned, you would think Roman would have already gotten used to this. The nerdier you are (read: some high school physics knowledge) the better your experience will be in today's world, because we are still in the early adopter phase.
For instance, understanding the architecture of your vehicle (400V or 800V, 400V for the Lyriq) along with your max advertised charge rate in kW (190 kW for the Lyriq) will tell you that it can max out at 475A (190,000W/400V). That 50kW EVGo station cannot handle 800V, so the max amperage it can do (which is listed on the cabinet, if you look) is 125A.
To understand how a 350kW DCFC gets to 350kW you should understand the DC amperage it can output if you have a 400V car like the Lyriq. If you have an 800V car like the EV6, then this amperage limit is less of an issue because it draws about 300A to get to its max charge rate of 233kW.
This really makes me want to buy an EV now
...
😂😂😂
Running a plug-in hybrid three years now. You are correct, the charging infrastructure is just not ready for mainstream. Also, notice the charging ports are plastic. More and more connectors at charging locations are broken. Gasoline cars have metal nozzles.
This was an awesome user experience test. Cadillac may have misjudged their buyer demographic.
Good point. Some older person non tech savvy is going to be sunk sunk sunk!
Bottom line is home charging is key and downloading and setting up the major charging apps ahead of time is also advisable.
As you mentioned near the end of this video, this is one HUGE advantage Tesla has over the competition. If you own a home and don't do many road trips, this isn't an issue. You charge at home 99% of the time. If you live in an apartment, however, or you do a lot of road trips, being able to charge at one of these stations is essential. I have no idea why these charging stations are so bad. It's simple:
* Don't bother making a station if it can't do at least 100kw. Obviously, it should do 200kw or more. But some of the stations that were placed there previously will need to be upgraded, and that will cost money.
* I get that we're in the age where every company wants all of your data, so they can sell it, but the process has to be smooth. It should accept Apple Pay, Google Pay, Samsung Pay BUT ALSO ALLOW CREDIT CARDS!!! No one should have to download your app to charge their car. At least give some incentive so that people want to do it. Maybe lower the charge rate by 3 cents per kw if you use the app
Thanks for publicizing those frustrations, I've been going through them for years, even got muted on a well known EV site for daring to express them myself. Fanboys won't listen. I tried many times and never did get a Blink charger to work. Not once. The websites are full of misinformation regarding charger status, which just makes it all dangerous to rely on. But it is getting better. Another thing is the cost, it was easily cheaper to fuel my F250 than public-charge my Leaf in California.
This is a primary reason I haven't pulled the trigger on my Lightning reservation, I know I have some long distances to do.
i love it when REALITY finally sinks in. i bet a lot of people will be setting their ev's on fire this winter, to stay warm.
@@billw8476 The only reality is that state governments have not taken the time to regulate the pumps as they do with anything else with weights and measures, with which every gasoline pump must conform.
@@billw8476 your right the more people that buy them Your gonna see a backlash and buyers remorse when they realize they aren't ready for prime time. These won't be the future. Some other tech will. They're not going to put in 300 Million chargers for every vehicle. Not going to happen. The grid cant handle it. The cost of electricity is going to skyrocket you not going to save a damn thing.
This video is about a year old. Some things are much better now. I had no problem signing on to the EVgo app (I did it at home for convenience in about 5 minutes). There's an EVgo outlet about a mile from me in Florida with a DC fast charger with a 50kW CCS plug. I was able to add 65 miles to my Lyriq in 30 minutes for $12. I just wanted to see that it worked. I usually charge at home. Later this year (2024) there will be an adapter for cars that use CCS (like the Lyriq) to connect with Tesla superchargers. And by 2025 all Lyriqs' and other GM cars will have the Tesla NACS connection as standard.
I have used EV GO chargers and I don’t like em, I avoid EV GO as much as possible unless it’s an emergency, I find it weird that they have to send you a physical card, when you can get one added to your digital wallet, just more waste added to the planet with a physical card!!… on top of that the app takes long to update. I go with Electrify America all the way for EV charging!!
FYI: My former rommie's Ferd Expedition would cost about $90 for a half charge that will take him less than 130 miles in-town UBERing or 3 MPG at $3.35 a gallon or ONE QUARTER the mileage his gas-powered Expedition got. The range of EV's is a total myth. In the REAL WORLD, if you get HALF the "ESTIMATED EPA RANGE" , you are doing outstanding. In Eastern OK, AEP/PSO charges nearly $10,000 to install a 150 Kw transformer at your house and as of Jan 1, 2023 there will be no "off-peak" rate and the rate will go to .27 cents a Kw/hour to charge EV's between 11PM and 5 AM and there can only be one charging point per three houses and any time not listed is .45 cents a Kw/hour and ALL EV charging can be interrupted at their discretion. DC charging rates TBA.
Because you need to tracked and sent 10 thousand emails.
I feel for him. I will have to say though, even in owning a Tesla, if you have an older car like I do (Model S 60), with a small battery pack (ie. low range) and you're traveling through/to an area with no Tesla Superchargers (for example, Putnam County, FL, Bradford County, FL), you need to make sure you have a full charge so you don't get stranded, or have to charge for 2 hours at a J1772 to get to a DC-DC charger. Also, early EV adopters will need do their research ahead of time. Just like we Teslans did in the early days of our network, there are apps like ABetterRoutePlanner that show you all the EV charging stations on your trip. Also, this is only a challenge if you're 1. traveling long distances and 2. if you don't have access to an electrical outlet near your car at night (apartment complex/street parking). Many EV owners can plug their car into any outlet (120V/240V) and charge overnight, replacing the electricity they used as they drove around town the previous day.
Thank you for honestly showing where we stand in the transition to electric vehicles. I have nothing against electrics, and hope to buy an electric Mini when the convertible comes out. However, we need realistic information and not the propaganda so many people want to push about how wonderful it currently is. We'll get there, but things are still very early in the journey.
I had a similar issue in Canada (road trip, Chysler Pacifica hybrid) using ChargePoint in Saint John, NB. It was only a L2 6KW system, and almost free ($3/2 hours)... which would have charged the small 16KWh battery. Called support, they told me that the charger was deactivated. I went 1 block to the next (convenient)... Same issue. Then they claimed there was an issue with their NFC, and released the charger remotely. After ~30 minutes, I ended up with ... 8 miles of range (total is only 32miles on this). So ... not a great use, but relatively cheap. Good for urban use.
4:30 This isn't something that you can compare to a gas station visit because this is a one-time setup for a feature that you are about 10 times less likely to use than you are to visit a gas station in an ICE vehicle. Again, with EVgo in particular, GM EVs already have plug and charge. Yes, it requires a bit of set up, but from that point forward, the payment process is actually *easier* than filling up at a gas station. I still recommend getting an RFID card for EVgo as a back up (and for using your account with other, unregistered EVs), but this is about as simple as it gets. It remains to be seen whether GM sets up the plug and charge function with ChargePoint and Electrify America too, but I expect that to be announced in the near future.
I wish they could design EVs like toy cars. You drive up to a car battery station, someone or automated system measures how much battery charge you have left, some mechanical arm opens battery compartment, pulls out battery, slides in fully charged battery (like replacing duracell batteries), you pay based on difference between fully charged battery and your spent one and you're off. Like how those formula one staff change tires during a race - they do it in seconds. Swapping out batteries would take less than 5 minutes.
As frustrating as it is, I can understand them not putting a cc reader at the charging station. They would likely get compromised with hackers puting other readers to steal your card info since these charging stations are not monitored. It is also easier for them to use the data of your phone to process the charge instead of them paying for data connectivity at the pump itself. Regardless an easier process is required for sure. Maybe one app that is mandated in your country that you install when you buy your ev. Then all charging stations have to use that app. Interact of charging stations.
the charger needs data connectivity regardless. thats how it knows to start.
@@dthreatt oh right! lol
Five years ago, I borrowed a used Ford Fusion Energi for an overnight test drive and wanted to see what it would be like to charge it at an EVgo station at Walmart. I had the nearly identical experience and never did get it to work. Sad to see that they haven't gotten any better by now.
Thank you for reporting on both the good AND the bad with the EV industry, so refreshing these days. Just have to say it though, "I'll never buy an EV..."
I recently drove across the entire length of the 401 highway (Canada) and had the EV charging experience in my gas car. At every "OnRoute" station I stopped at, there was an entire row of pumps that were out of service, and the few remaining had gasoline trickling at the same rate I trickled at the urinal. Even my little econobox that only takes 8 gallons to fill took at least 10 minutes to fill up, and people in trucks were there for a solid half hour as lines got longer, people cut, people got irritated... absolutely dreadful. I'm never going back to OnRoutes.
Yup! We may need some regulatory action that states every EV charger have the option for a Credit/Debit card, like a gas pump. They could still have other methods, and even offer deals for members or whatever. But yeah, this is a problem...
The EU already has this. Must accept card at a minimum.
Very educational. Why can’t these guys just accept a credit card like a gas station.
Great video and you are 100% correct this video shows why Tesla has the majority of the sales in the US despite the QC issues.. One day it will get better but until then Tesla wins every time.
The problem with public charging in metro areas is crime. Criminals camp out at metro charging stations and shake down EV owners. Usually a 20$ bill will make the stop the intimidations, but you might need more money to pay them off….maybe $100…ie, five 20 dollar bills. Never ever go to a public charging station in a metro area without cash, or you could get dragged out of your car and beaten up.
Got the same problem with Francis Energy. 2 Weeks ago I rent a Mach-e and tried to charge it at a small town b4 heading back to city. Tried 4 slots there and none of them accepted my credit card and suggested me to call them or download their app. I was so mad and decided to leave a bad review and leave. Luckily I still have 16 miles left when I got to a charge station near my home.
Why these companies don’t just make it simple and stupid like gas stations? We don’t need tons of apps just for filling fueling our cars in stations. And don’t want them on charging an ev,either.
I've never used EV Go (yet) but EA and ChargePoint were a piece of cake for me. That's not to say people don't experience problems. Overall your sentiment is valid. They have to be on top of their game, like now.
Yeah I have to admit that ChargePoint was super easy to setup and now I just use the CP scanner tag that came with my Volt to charge up (luckily the office went with CP). Hopefully it will be just as easy for any future PHEV or BEV I decide to buy.
EA have worked seamlessly with my Mustang Mach E, always identifying the vehicle and starting charging as soon as I plug in, with the caveat that about half of their chargers at any given station are broken or otherwise don’t work for unknown reasons.
I have 2020 Nissan Leaf and trickle charge at home. Although we don’t road trip in it, we take drives up to about 100 miles one-way, thus requiring us to DC charge; and my goodness. EVGo and EA are terrible. I feel there is a less than 50% chance they actually work when we charge. I hope the infrastructure improves because the model 3 is looking more appealing by the day.
5:58 Some states are now requiring credit card payments on each charger, but not all of the older chargers have been retrofitted yet. That being said, most now offer CC payments on the machines, but the problem is that you're typically paying significantly more for the convenience.
I walked out of a restaurant recently because you have to download an app, email address, phone number, credit card just to order. I hate the future.
One expects that Caddy's buyer demographics might skew older and thus include a lot of users who aren't super adroit at using smartphones to do stuff. So I think Cadillac in particular really needs to get its public charging partners to sort out these sorts of issues.
That said, it still seems to me that at this point most EV owners charge a large proportion of the time at home and only occasionally need to use public charging, and for those owners this is more of an occasional annoyance than a really significant usability issue. Speaking for myself, the everyday benefits of owning an EV that I charge ~95%+ of the time at home far outweigh the occasional public charging snafu I have to navigate.
Plus, again speaking for myself as a Ford owner, the way Ford is working with the networks is considerably ahead of where GM seems to be. I've used EA, EVGo and ChargePoint and never had to install any of their apps or set up accounts with them.
GM has a partnership with EVGO for plug and charge. The Lyric supports it.
I know y’all desperately want to believe ford is ahead but they are not. GM has their own partnership with EVGO and Cadillac offers some of the fastest home charging capabilities, even faster than Tesla.
@@sprockkets re: "The Lyric supports it." correct but only AFTER you find a machine, and IF said machine is in good working order. Ultium 360 on the Lyric is unfortunately not the 1st step but is actually the 3rd step (in a "3 step process") sadly as Humans we tend to "oversimplify" and not see the reality of things for what they are. mind you i say this as someone who is PRO GM and a devout Tesla/Elon hater (i tell everyone up front).
ah... fwiw... I totally feel your pain, and it IS really stupid. Practically speaking, your best option
is not by joining when you roll up to a charger. That usually fails. Better approach is ahead of time from home, on a PC with good internet connection and coffee ready:
1. Figure out which one you need by looking at plugshare and/or the maps figure out which networks have chargers in the places you want to go.
2. Join the networks you chose using that home PC, and with a phone available.
not relying on mobile phone networks (flakey) and mobile apps (crap interfaces) or browsing web sites on a tiny phone screen. Do all that crap at home.
3. wait the week or two for the RFID card in the mail. Chuck it in the glove compartment.
4. Rinse, lather, repeat for each of the other networks you need. so you have a pile of RFID cards in your glove compartment.
5. when you pull up to a pump from network X, use the RFID card for network X.
not great, but works a lot more often than any other method I've seen. Using apps is a huge over complicated pain.
Until auto manufacturers get there heads out of their asses and put as much time into the charging network as the cars themselves (as Tesla did from the get go!!!) no one is going to buy their cars. I would only by a Tesla for this reason. I’m much prefer a Ford Lightning or Rivian over Tesla’s offerings but there’s no way I could live with this.
Another thing to consider? Guy in Great Britain was out and about and pulled up to a charging station. Things were BUILT in such a manner that HE could NOT get the cable plug to the charge port on his EV. Had to try to find ANOTHER station where HE could pull up and ACTUALLY be able to charge HIS EV! Not sure if there was any way that the guy could move his car around to be able to work things out?
Proprietary chargers are not a good idea either. It would be like a separate gas station for each brand of car. The problem is two fold. Trying to come up with a new way of doing things because electric, and outsourcing development to India or other Asian countries. I have worked with good Indian developers, but for the most part, they are often very confused as to what it is they are supposed to code. Then you get stuff that just doesn't work.
So, if your phone gets stolen on a trip, like my girlfriend's just was, you can't charge your car until you get a new phone🤡
This is horrible, inconvenient, and frustrating. Will definitely make me think thrice before getting an EV. If you own an EV you truly are being tracked everywhere you go. This is why the governments around the world are embracing them so heavily. They'll claim its the environment as they aboard their private jets to attend meetings that could be done online, but control is the real reason.
This is the growing pains that companies need to go through in order to get to a better product… the retailers are very focused on harvesting their consumers, unfortunately this results in this poor experience.
EVgo will need to improve, market pressure such as videos like this will move it forward - although, many of these stations are given some favorable terms by municipalities, which also need to be aware and the community needs to apply pressure here as well - otherwise we will end up with more of this…
50kw charger, in this day, isn’t much… ah glad you are the “trail blazer” 😅
They are just running towards their demise .. karma finally catching them
There is no market pressure when there are only Teslas around. All other OEMs just have no incentives to react faster.
@@sudeeptaghosh And they get faster every day. VW stopped production of the IDBuzz, Ford of the Mach-E, Toyota must call back all produced cars, The Koreans can not even produce enough for their home market.
@@wolfgangpreier9160 there are many other vehicles than just Tesla. All other EV makers are using the CCS connector and thus there will be market pressure as the machine and the location for that machine is not free...
Will it improve instantly? Nope, then again the issue hasn't appeared overnight either...
Rivian is deploying their own equipment, Electrify America and many more....
@@Stringy1313 My Teslas have CCS connectors in Europe. Always had. And Tesla is the biggest EV supplier but VW and Renault are not far behind. What happened with all those non-Tesla owners? They moan and whine because of the bad charging infrastructure. Since Tesla opened a few of the SuC here the situation has calmed down significantly. Tesla is not cheap but cheaper than the competition.
Good luck to Rivian! May the force be with them. If they are twice as fast and spend twice as much money as Tesla they could build a few thousand charging stations by 2030. Worldwide!
You don‘t have to be faster than the bear. You have to be faster than your neighbor…
Takes planning and stations that don't malfunction. Before traveling I check Plugshare and order the in card for the service provider. Works fairly well.
I charge at home.
I'm a busy person, I've have better things to do, .. than to sit at a charging station picking my nose while waiting and waiting for vehicle to charge ... that's a good name for these stations ..... NOSE PICKING STATIONS