Did the British Kill Glenn Miller?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 พ.ย. 2021
- The disappearance of Glenn Miller, famous American musician and band leader, in December 1944 remains a mystery to this day. In this video, I examine the theories and some new evidence.
Dr. Mark Felton is a well-known British historian, the author of 22 non-fiction books, including bestsellers 'Zero Night' and 'Castle of the Eagles', both currently being developed into movies in Hollywood. In addition to writing, Mark also appears regularly in television documentaries around the world, including on The History Channel, Netflix, National Geographic, Quest, American Heroes Channel and RMC Decouverte. His books have formed the background to several TV and radio documentaries. More information about Mark can be found at: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Fe...
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Credits: US National Archives; National WWII Museum; Serial Number 54129; Misterweirs
I'm happy to report to everyone that Raymond "Ray" Anthony, one of Glenn's trumpeters, as of Nov 2021 is still alive and well at the grand age of 99
That is great!!!
Music keeps you young.
That's amazing. Thank you for sharing that. What a blessing that he's doing so well. ❤️
Whoa - I recognize the name! Good for him. If you know him, give him a punch in the arm (firm but gentle) from a fan
Whoa - I recognize the name! Good for him. If you know him, give him a punch in the arm (firm but gentle) from a fan
I heard a British comedian state, "We gave you Bob Hope and you made him a national treasure for 70 years, you gave us Glenn Miller, and we lost him a few months later".
Ah yes... But can you name the comedian? Mmm?
@@patagualianmostly7437 Nope, no clue. I only remembered it because my grandfather thought it was the funniest thing ever. If you know please tell me.
Spike Milligan ?
"Died in a Paris Brothel" As endings go, it could be worse. I'd have that on my tombstone.
you don't have to be stiff to be dead!
@@chuckh5999 or dead to be stiff :)
Hope he came before he went....
No he was the Elvis of the day. He didn't need to pay for it. British girls were throwing themselves at him.
@@456swagger No doubt..Glenn Miller never left a performance alone unless he wanted to be..
As a Big Band sideman in the late sixties and early 70's, I never had a chance to listen from the dance floor perspective on how it sounded. Then in 1980 when Larry O'Brien announced he was fronting the Miller Band at an Upstate NY Lakeside dance, I jumped at the chance and brought my wife along.
It was just like on those 1940's records and shows. everyone cheered and jumped with every note. I was stunned with the incredible clarity, balance and articulation -Goose bumps with every note and downbeat. We were hooked at the Big Band Dance Band sound as a dance team. It was THE most remarkable dance I ever attended. Totally swept off our feet all night long. My jaw drops to this day thinking about what a remarkable time we had in reliving our forefathers music as it was -truly live. No recording can come even close to having a live 18 piece dance band perform for you.
This is wonderful story! Thanks for sharing!
As a former U. S. ARMY Bandsman (musician), Major Miller's disappearance has always been interesting to me. In Vietnam we flew nearly every week in some sort of aircraft, for official ceremonies and morale raising. Hope it was quick. R.I.P. Thank you Professor Felton.
Thank you, for your service to our nation.
@@stephenslusser2895 You are welcome. I only wish we had had a better outcome. Take care.
Thank you for what you did! God Bless
What about a V1, V2, German Flak Gun, or Allied AA gun? The Germans launched hundreds if not thousands of V1’s or V2’s against Antwerp so friendly fire could have come from an Allied AA gun in Belgium or Holland. Not to mention a Luftwaffe plane pursing Allied aircraft returning from a bombing or a strafing mission over German occupied territory.
Thank you sir.
I’d seen the story that he flew through the no-fly zone and got bombed by accident, but didn’t know about the plane being defective or the fishing boat finding a plane wreck. If he did crash in the no fly zone, obviously there would be no rescue boats in the area. I’ve sailed through those waters and survival would be impossible.
Another sad Glenn Miller story is that the Hotel Pennsylvania in New York (opposite Maddison Square Garden) is to be demolished, because it went bust during Covid lockdown.
The hotel’s phone number was 65000 and that’s why he wrote the tune “Pennsylvania 65000”.
It’s a shame that another Art Deco masterpiece is to be flattened, especially after the ridiculous demolition of Penn Station which was replaced by the fugly MSG building.
DiBlasio has real estate interests involved with his lockdown strategy... expect a lot of shuttered buildings to be gobbled up.
I've never been to New York, just out of curiosity, why would you consider the MSG building fugly? I've always considered wanting to see an event there at least once.
@@thomasmarciano6133 Look at images of Pennsylvania Station and MSG.
The difference is amazing, a beautiful structure vs that awful building today. MSG is just awful looking.
Penn Station demolished? Isn't that the famous station in every classic American movie/TV series?. Beautiful building. Is it really gone?
@@wexfordgirl1 Your'e thinking of Grand Central Station.
Let’s just appreciate GLENN MILLER’s sacrifice to put on a uniform and put on hundreds of shows - for so many men the last show they ever saw.
The real day the music died. 🇺🇸🎖🏴
Yes. He had no need to. He did his bit..... "The day the music died" It happens for many generations. Glenn Miller...... the first?
Jim Morrison. Janis Joplin. Jimi Hendrix. Amy Winehouse....
Interesting and surprising story. Although I well know the music of this artist I had no clue about his disappearance. Here I learned something and say thanks to the story teller.
same here. i've just used G.Millers Chattanooga choo choo for one of my vids. now i'm very surprised to hear that....
Except the dropped-bomb hypothesis has been pretty will discredited in the 40+ years since it came out. Felton is doing a huge disservice by repeating it.
I never knew this, either. I DID know of his music, but had no idea he went missing. That's really tragic.
Keep an open mind. "Discredited" is a big, mysterious word. I've seen all your comments, so no need to repost all that stuff. @@Poisson4147
Thank you for this interesting piece. My mom loved Glenn Miller. She passed away at 99 in December of 2020. Oh, the stories she could tell about living in Chicago when the war broke out.
Do you remember a favorite story?
Are they written down ?
@@GhettoCabbage Yeah, she worked in a factory that assembled torpedos.
@@RobTheNotary I recorded a lot before she died.
Having grown up listening to Glenn Miller and know that he died in a plane this video is of special interest to me. It makes me all nostalgic
But surely his music wasn't that bad we had to snuff him out 🎶🙏🎧👀🇺🇸
Both my mother and father loved Glen Miller's music.
Corn!
This tragic story is one of God only knows how many wartime tragedies that were either covered up or remain virtually unknown. Your research and the stories that result from it are priceless, Mark. Many thanks.
I read somewhere that 'little boy' was made by the Japanese who dropped it on themselves because they felt guilty after Okinawa, and The Manhatten project was actually a plan to build a miniature train with track running from Los Angeles too San Francisco?
@@andrewisotope81461:37
I'm watching this in Clarinda, Iowa - birthplace of Glenn Miller Right now! ✌
Has there ever been a story where somebody sneaks onto an unofficial flight in bad weather with a happy ending?
Given that they weren’t supposed to, they probably didn’t tell anybody 🤣
Oh yes, Clint Eastwood's story.
@@danielkaranja7978 I was about to type Clint's name. LOL.
Here's one. My parents met in 1968 at Valley Forge Army Hospital, in Pennsylvania, during the Vietnam War. Dad was US Army, he had already served one tour (1 year) in country as a medic, while Mom was a nurse. After they'd dated for a while, Mom got cold feet about the relationship and enlisted in the Army, volunteering to serve as a nurse in Vietnam. She did this because she wanted to serve and get away from him for a while.
Mom duly joined the Army and was sent to South Vietnam. Meanwhile, Dad was still stationed at Valley Forge. After some months, he decided he really did love her, so he put in a request to go back to Vietnam in hopes of being stationed near her.
While in Tokyo during transit to South Vietnam, Dad started suffering from severe chest pain, probably due to the stress of getting close to getting back to the war. Dad was career Army and he knew how to make things happen and he was therefore able to get a message to Mom, telling her he was in a hospital in Tokyo and would be there several days while they tested his heart, etc.
By now Mom had come to realize that as an Army nurse in Vietnam, she had a lot of leeway to misbehave, what were they going to do to her, send her to Vietnam? She was stationed at Chu Lai, a large US base with an airfield and medical facilities. First she arranged for her absence to be covered for 48 hours. Then she told some pilots that she needed to get to Tokyo to see her boyfriend. As luck would have it, there was a cargo aircraft going to Tokyo, the catch was the aircraft had only 3 working engines and was going to Tokyo for repairs. The crew was willing to take her along, unofficially, of course. (She was a pretty white woman in South Vietnam, the men bent over backwards for her).
The flight itself was uneventful. Mom got to visit Dad in Tokyo. They affirmed their love for one another. Mom cannot remember how on earth she got back to Chu Lai, but she was back in 48 hours, bearing gifts for the nurses who'd covered for her, with her commanding officer none the wiser, or perhaps simply turning a blind eye.
Dad's heart was fine, he made it to South Vietnam and after much wrangling, managed to have himself stationed at Chu Lai so that they could be together. They were married while on leave in Honolulu a few months later. I came along a few years after that.
Good point
My father , Robert O’Hanlon was wireless operator on that RAF flight. It is in my view significant that the crew member who spotted the Norseman was familiar with what was quite an obscure aircraft having flown them many times. I have many papers relating to that incident and unless the wreckage is located it is unlikely we will never know the truth beyond reasonable doubt. It was incidentally my father. ‘s 1st live mission.
Amazing story! Thanks for sharing it.
I would hope you and Professor Felton will collaborate on a further exploration of the circumstances surrounding Glenn Miller’s fatal flight.
Thank you for your Comment.
Roy Lewis Buffalo, NY
Fascinating!
That's amazing... ...what did he think about the disappearance?
Imagine your father hearing Glenn Miller's music on the radio set while he was flying/crashing nearby.
The oldest song that I can remember is "In The Mood". I was just around three, and I remember liking that song the very first time I heard it. My Dad was into the Big Band Era and was over in Germany during the Nuremberg Trials. I liked Boogie Woogie music from the start. I will be 72 this month, and I still like hearing that song to this day...
My grandparents next door neighbour worked at the airfield where Miller took off from on that last flight. She literally saw him get on the plane. She always wished she'd asked for his autograph.
Glenn Miller deserves attention, in any capacity. One of my favorite artists across all genres. Beautiful music. Iconic. Thanks Mark.
True my boy Mace
@@nuclear9977 Glenn Miller represents to me everything perfect about the jazz, swing, and big band age. Noble, humble, and patriotic. It's incredibly unfortunate that such a bright, talented, and charitable mind lost his life so early and during such popularity. Even as a 19 year old, I mourn him.
In The Mood has to be one of the most iconic and greatest tunes of the 20th Century and of all time. RIP
@@pyrtwistPyrtwistWorldInMotion Indeed. It is in my top three list of favorite songs I've ever listened to. Truly a masterclass in music. I hope we can return the humbleness of his music someday.
@@maeson676 Agree. He could have rode out the war making Bond Drive and movie morale boosters. But, he volunteered to serve those inducted into the war effort. For me, that is something very rare among celebrities. Take care.
The absolute best war stories on TH-cam.
True, this man does his homework.
That is a fact sir
And he makes so many videos 👌
I stumbled across his hometown, Clarinda, randomly. My grandparents were fans and so we stopped in the house he was raised in. I sat at his piano. It was totally random that we came across it but I'm glad I did.
I'm into old-school punk, death metal, Black Metal, Power-thrash heavy metal and industrial rave.
Despite that, I have nothing but respect for the musicians of yore and classical music. It's a shame I didn't know about Glenn Miller until now. Thank you for covering this, Mark.
In The Mood ( which is the tune Mark F opens this video with) is a v famous tune of the Miller band. Pity you'd never heard it before now. My mother told me everyone was crazy for it in the world ( where it could be heard that is). I'm an Aussie
Listened to Glenn Miller on my dad's 78s as a child. Still love his music. Very interesting that he recorded at Abbey Road.
Only 1% of the population knows what a 78 is nowadays
@@nickmalone3143 78s had the best sound quality. Alas, the shortest recording time.
The Glenn Miller Orchestra still tours - we heard them in NJ in September. If you get the opportunity, go hear them. They're fabulous!
What a shame, Glenn Miller was a genius when it came to ragtime, boogy woogy, big band music. In the early 60s I had a band director that introduced me to the music of Glenn Miller, and although I was already into rock and roll, I came to appreciate big band music. Glenn Miller is still the standard for that type of music and his reputation lives on to this day
Yes, I was enlightened to find that Rock and Roll came out of this and Western Swing, of which Bill Hayley was a proponent.
Appropriated...
Jazz was never the creation of middle class white men.
@@yt.personal.identification Too bad... Middle class suburban communities and life was never meant for Blizacks
@@yt.personal.identification "Appropriated" You sound like a commie.
@@napiersh1 You sound like you need a dictionary.
As a child I remember seeing the movie "The Glenn Miller story" starring James Stewart, thus getting acquainted with his most famous compositions...I grew up a fan of Miller's music and still am today.
Glenn Miller killed Glenn Miller when he decided to board a plane when they had been advised to not fly because of the severe weather. It was the middle of December and the plane's route was over the English Channel.
On 15 December of 1994, the USAF Band played a Glenn Miller concert in the DAR Constitution Hall to mark the 50 years that had passed since Miller's UC-64 Norseman went into the
English Channel. This concert marked the very first time the full AAF Band with strings was re-created since the 1943-46 ended it's days and all of the musicians were discharged.
I was at that concert. As it happened, I was working at Bolling AFB in DC at the time.
About 6 months before the big day, I went to see the chief arranger of the band. I asked him if they were planning a tribute concert with the full band to mark the big day. The answer
was no because the original sheet music no longer existed. Then I asked if they could copy out the parts from recordings. They said that was easy. Then I asked how much they wanted.
That was a totally unexpected question. I told them that I had been a Miller fan and collector since the early 60's and would be very happy to let them use my collection.
The next day they came by and they picked it up. After a while, they returned it to me and started working on the concert.
They gave me four tickets and I've never enjoyed a musical performance more than I did that one, which was a world premier performance. And yes, I was bursting with pride when the
band started playing Moonlight Serenade to start the evening.
I retired a couple years later and now live outside the USA, 'Happily Ever After' along with my cat and huge collection of Swing music, part of which is from the same era in France.
Fabulous story ... thank you for your contribution to enable that concert.
Glenn Miller a great American hero. This has been extensively researched and written about by Dennis M. Spragg, author of Glenn Miller declassified. More than likely mechanical failure as the conditions and the known problems with the plane contributed to it going down. RIP Major Miller.
Indeed - I've been doing some internet reading about this and the 'south jettison area' story and the Portland fisherman's tale both seem not to hold water.
He died in the arms of a Parisian prostitute.
@@cascade3769 According to the Nazi propaganda ministry, yes. According to actual history, no.
Mark, this was a really nice, albeit different, topic. Miller is, in my mind, synonymous with the 40s, and I’m so glad to see a fine production documenting his disappearance. Miller’s influence is so great that his “In The Mood” has been played in many a film and TV show throughout the decades, my favourite being a regular song in the series “Get Smart”.
Well done
A fascinating and excellent recap, Mark! I like Glenn Miller's music, but had no idea that his band played 800 shows for GI's. That is one heckuva lot of shows. A true patriot. The entire band deserves to be honored for all they did for moral.
Thank you.
My parents were both involved in the war effort, my dad in the Navy and mom was a Rosie riveter. I remember listening to Glen Miller records at home frequently in the 1950s and saw The Glen Miller Story, starring Jimmy Stewart on TV. I've always loved the melodic and catchy tunes of the Glen Miller Band. Thanks for this piece of him.
If you see The Origibal Glen Miller Orchestra be sure to go and hear them. I saw them about four years ago. They're amazing!
Look up the story of the tanker Ohio, which was crippled during Operation Pedestal but was still dragged into Malta. The Ohio's captain owned a small record collection. Whilst the crew worked on the stricken sinking vessel, the captain played Miller's records over the tannoy to keep their spirits up.
Me too. My dad was in the Army, my mother worked in a defense plant making fighter planes. I grew up listening to Miller’s music as a child, and hearing it always takes me back. A sad story.
One of the most enduring mysteries of WWII, I’m glad you were able to highlight this significant event.
IF it was the concussion wave from bombs, which presumably continued, there wouldn't have been much left of the plane.
Whereas
IF you set off in a single engined aeroplane of questionable serviceability into poor met and with no flight plan You are signing up for a slot on the Darwin Awards. Pilot error? More like Pilot totally reckless arrogance.
Think of the series of lunacies which led to Emiliano Sala dying.
My father played with Glenn Miller's band when he disappeared during WWII, he replaced Genn's clarinet, but didn't necessarily lead the band, but the Miller band members taught my father how to compose big band jazz, and when he came back to the states he had his own band and played bigband jazz for decades.
That is a great story Fred!
My father Louis Haas, was in the 65th infantry, he entered his service as a musician, and landed in La Havre France shortly after D-Day, pulling up the rear after the initial landing. He saw battle, and one day after all the medics got shot up, there was a command to send the band out as medics, which was certain death, the general in command intervened and pulled the band out, as he didn’t want to lose his musicians.
Nice video. I actually graduated from Clarinda Iowa high school in 2016. He's a big source of pride for the town. His birth home is even a museum and they have a festival every year dedicated to him. I'm definitely am glad you covered this subject and I've definitely heard about the French brothel theory but didn't find it too likely.
I would NEVER buy into the "French brothel theory." It was just a campaign by some EVIL people to smear his name. It is done WAY too often. It's nice that your town continues to honor his memory.
@@ValerieGrinerThe brothel story doesn't even pass the most basic logic tests. Nobody saw the plane land at Villacoublay, no car was requested for a transfer to Paris, and the other two occupants were never seen anywhere at any point.
Miller was no saint (witness his involvement with British pop singer Dorothy Carless) but the idea that he'd arrive in Paris days behind schedule, then waste yet more time on a bit of rumpy-pumpy is just bonkers.
In the early 50's my mom would play his records all day long.I now know why.She was an Army Air Corp nurse in ww2.She never talked about her service.
"In the mood" with this one, Dr. Felton. Thank you.
I am always "Hot and Ready" (original name of the song) for a Felton vid.
And Moonlight Serenade
"In The Mood" is definitely my favorite of the Glenn Miller songs. I'd probably say "Chattanooga Choo Choo" comes in second, but to be fair, I'm a fan of "Choo Choo" as just a song itself regardless of who's playing/singing it. But Glenn Miller's "In The Mood" is the best version of that particular song.
@@skyden24195 My favorite was "Kalamazoo", I went to college in Kalamazoo!
@@skyden24195 American Patrol is also really fun, and of course Begin the Beguine.
I was “in the mood” for another great history and mystery video from Mark Felton. Always superb.
I literally just drove home listening to In The Mood and this comes up in my recommendations. Thanks again Mark!
Occam's razor -- a plane with known mechanical problems flying in bad weather over fatally cold water ... The jettisoned bombs explanation also seems plausible, but if the timing is confirmed to be off, then that is out. But if so, what about the eye witness reports of an aircraft below the Lancasters? Was that aircraft ever identified, if it was not the plane with Miller on board? Glad to hear the far-fetched explanations have no basis. Miller was a patriot who sacrificed a lot of money, and ultimately his life. Rest In Peace, sir. Great video. Thanks for posting!
Occam's razos sounds like a "theory" that was invented by a psychopath who hide their shite in complexity.
The timing could be explained by the difference between the US using Local time, while the RAF using GMT. That would give an hour discrepancy in record keeping
My thoughts exactly. Why make up an incident of Fratricide?
Good mystery hard to beat. I am leaning to carburetors icing up or just wing icing if not both & took a deep hard dive into ocean. If so they didn't feel much pain. That plane did not have the update yet on carb icing problem to fix it. Bottom line that plane never should took off to start with. Plus Battle Bulge just starting & caught Allies by surprise & everybody got busy trying stop it to save there careers. Ike was at a Wedding drinking heard that from numerous sources when news of major new offensive action taking place. Glenn music sadly took a seat in the main back on the long bus of important problems wise. Plane crew & passagers sadly took the wrong time, wrong place to take a huge chance. Be nice to solve it.
@@Pfsif That comment you just made is hilariously silly considering what Occam's Razor states...
Miller's untimely passing has been the subject of discussion and rumor for decades. Thanks for adding perspective and detail to the tragic end of one of America's greatest musicians of all time.
I still listen to his songs . My parents played all his songs when I was young , l had children late in my life 2004 and 2005 I played all of Glenn Miller's song's all night long for my children to sleep by and every once in a while they play them today.
Fascinating Dr. Felton. Thanks for recording!
Whether bad weather, bad maintenance, or bad decision-making…the world lost a great musician that day.
I can attest to the witnessing of my dad, that the Germans were as sorrowed by Millers death than the allies. German soldiers loved Millers music even if they had to be very careful to not getting caught by party zealots.
Glenn Miller had his post war german fans as well, i grew up in the sixties with lots of Glenn Miller and liked it a lot even as an 8 year old, with the advent of the 70's, pop music took over though, guess i am in for a Glenn Miller revival. During the war, my hometown hamburg was well known for the "swing kids" that were opposed to the fascist regime and avid Swing music aficionados.
In the German airforce swing music, especially Glenn Miller was very popular.
The Allies actually had the Germans fooled with some of their radio broadcasts. They had a station called "Atlantic Sender" which the Germans thought was one of theirs. This was part of the Allies Psy Ops. They'd play music, and read announcements (in German) about the hometowns of U-boat sailors, etc, so there would've been a few Germans who were exposed to music from the Allied side.
Apart from that, of course, the German population could've tuned into the BBC or the equivalent to the AFRTS. Even though the very affordable radios available to the public, e.g. Volksempfänger, were a bit deaf (purposely, to keep down costs but the government only wanted the people to listen to German stations) they'd still hear further away after dark with an external antenna. However; listening to foreign stations was a crime in Germany after the war started, so one would've had to be very careful about when to listen, with whom to listen, and to whom to speak about it.
The British soldiers were also very fond of ‘Lili Marlene’, though according to my Dad the translation of the words wasn’t always as clean as it might be… :)
@@bob_the_bomb4508 Yes I can attest to that - my dad (English) used to call her Marlene Dirtybitch as an term of endearment!
Thanks again! I'm always in the mood for one of your great documentaries.
Your channel is a true gem Mr. Felton.
I like the Paris Brothel theory. A proper ending for a rock star of his day.
It wouldn’t be unusual either, apparently his contemporary, George Gershwin, never married but worked his way through hundreds of professionals!
The story is an old muso chestnut and been around for decades. Glenn may have been rockin' it up in Paris with a large portion and had heart failure for his troubles. Another supposition is that he knew about the confidential movements of the 'American Patrol', so any factual military investigation was kept to a very low profile. Report likely under lock and key.
A much better way to go than the Lancaster theory. Imagine his final minute in that scenario from his perspective. It would have been utterly terrifying, but spectacular in a grim sort of way.
The Paris brothel story does not explain the disappearance of the other two men on the plane.
Reminds me of when Charlie Sheen was being sentenced for using a prostitute, the judge asked him why a man like him would have to pay for sex. Sheen said: “I don’t pay them for sex. I pay them to leave.”
Dr. Felton, another great , long forgotten mystery explored. Thanks for making a presentation about Glenn Miller's disappearance for us.
My father, who was too young to serve in WWII but did serve during the Korean War, is a huge fan of the jazz and big band era music, so I grew up listening to that style of music. I was given a great music education, playing piano, accordion, trumpet, baritone horn and bass trombone in school marching and jazz bands. The jazz band focused a great deal on the big band's music, Benny Goodman, the Dorsey brothers and of course Miller's music. Being trombonist, Miller's and the Dorsey's always had great trombone parts scored into their songs and I always enjoyed playing their songs. It was , in general, very fun, energetic, hopeful and happy music. As a student of history, even back then, It is easy to see how music like Miller's or as you point out in your video that of Vera Lynn, was so important to the war effort. It provided an upbeat respite from the horrors of war. The contributions of all the entertainers from Britain, Canada and the US, are stories that need to be remembered. They raised the spirits of soldiers and civilians through humanity's darkest times.
What a change of pace v’s your usual viewing. Thanks again Dr Felton!
It's an amazing coincidence you decided to post this video because I am writing my research paper over this topic. I really love how informative this video was, and it even taught me a few things that I may write about.
Clicking Faster than the Soviet Advance into Berlin.
2 soon man
How about “clicking faster then America’s withdraw from Afghanistan”?
👍
Excellent
@@aarondrennan5650 well...., remember this was signed in a paper previosly, the withdrawal.
Still, he gave his life for his country, I'm sure that he knew the dangers of flying through what was effectively a combat zone. He could have shrunk from responsibility, found some excuse to stay somewhere in England where the V-bombs wouldn't fall but he did all he could to be with his compatriots to try to help them in a way only he could.
Bone spurs. Or stick two pencils up your nose and put some underpants on your head. And say wibble.
@@russelledwards001 works every time!
@@russelledwards001 Or volunteer for a "reprisal" raid against the peaceful pygmies of M'boutu gorge?
Ring your old mate Haig who rescued asking for advice on how to get out of doing your duty.
"Boy, the way Glenn Miller played."
"Swongs that made tha hit pahraid!"
"Guys like us, we had it made!"
"Those were the days!"
"Those were the days!"
"Shuddup, You Meadthead!" "You too, Dingbat!" 😉😁😜
As some who isn't 30 yet, i'm glad I watched all of All in the Family, I wish people weren't so sensitive today so they could do a reboot or something similar (although they did recreate an episode on Kimmel with Woody Harrelson as Archie that was pretty good).
@@madmodder123 The thing is, not only was the show funny, but like a family sitcom would be, this also had life lessons on marriage, family, religion, tolerance and frustration to racial topics that were addressed. When it turned into Archie's Place, after the the main show after Edith died, Archie started to not only be racially tolerant, but he began siding with and defending people of color and other ethnic backgrounds. Yet at the same time, it was funny an entertaining. The thing about the show, was not that it was racist or anything, it just tried to show some of the awkwardness situations that there were at the times and made it humorous.
@@hoozerob Yeah totally. If they even tried to do that today the cancel culture clowns would immediately try to shut it down. It is a real shame
@@madmodder123 Yeah. I know. If you grew up back in the '70's, we just didn't have any of this going on like it is today. Come to think of it, we didn't have it till that next guy after Bush took over the white house. I guess I don't need to say who.. But that's when all this nonsense started happening. There ARE NO racial, gay, religious issues today! It's all been fabricated by those in government and their sponsors, to ensure they win and keep control! America knows by now that it all those issues are bogus. Same thing with climate change. Yeah, there is some, but not nearly to the extreme of what they say it is!. It's variant, all through time and history.
We’ll mark another truely awesome report, loving your work always, looking forward to the next one!
My Dad went down in a Norseman in 1950. The engine was sputtering, an indication of dirty fuel or carberator problems. He was quite experienced. He had his commercial licence in the 30's and had served as a chief engineer in the Commonwealth Air Training Plan and then as a pilot in RCAF during WW2. Then in the late 70's a friend and family and former student went down in a Norseman taking off from a Lake here in Northern Ontario. He was a very experienced bush pilot, but again the engine choked and he couldn't make the tree-line. Then of course the famous Canadian Ace Buzz Beuring, "The Falcon of Malta" also went down in a Norseman.
Talk about bringing validity to that theory...wow.
I was raised in N Ontario and flew in these planes all the time. They are the workhorses of the north, and could handle a lot of very tough weather conditions. I'm not sure B Hut is saying it was carburator issues . I'm not aware of the incident that took his dad's life. Whenever a plane goes down in the north, it's a pretty big deal. Quite often it's a well known commercial pilot without whom supplies and transport would not be possible.
Thank you for posting, condolences and wishing you the best.
Thanks for doing a story on this.
The Norseman was specifically designed for bush operations in Canada, where it would fly in all types of conditions lending toward carburetor icing & was equipped accordingly. But more importantly, Fred Shaw, one of the Lancaster airman who spotted the 'kite', recognized the distinctive outline of the Canadian-built Norseman from his time spent in Canada undergoing navigation training.
Multiple 500lb bombs detonating around a low-flying aircraft & sending up columns of water (along with the accompanying shockwaves) would almost certainly wreak havoc on the aircraft's (mainly) fabric covered wood & steel tube construction.
If Fred Shaw saw the Norseman spin in, why didn't he report it to Air Sea rescue? Not doing so would have been a courts martial offense.
@@michaelplanchunas3693
As stated in this essay, the tail gunner and/or the navigator reported it to the A/C commander. It would be his duty to report the event.
@@michaelplanchunas3693 It was reported but nothing came of it because the USAAF and the RAF worked on different zones and probably didn't realise it at the time
This is an early war version of the Norseman, I concur completely with Rayns 1, this is a very sturdy, icing condition capable aircraft, unlikely to go down easily. They are still flown year round, commercially and privately all over Canada, many times at very low altitude and in tough weather conditions. They and their Beaver cousins are now being converted to glass cockpits and fly by wire technology, much of it by Viking Air in Victoria BC. Very nostalgic to see a video of one, I was raised in the north spending a lot of childhood in these planes.
Jettisoned ordnance is armed?
The most wonderfully deranged theory I've heard is that he defected to the Soviet Union and later led that country. The theory goes that there are no photos of Yuri Andropov before 1945, but the first photos of him bear an uncanny resemblance to Glenn Miller. The Soviets were apparently so impressed by him that they invented an earlier life for him and he was integrated into the system and eventually became paramount leader on the death of Brezhenev and led the Soviet Union until his own death. I'm amazed that even the most insane conspiracy theorists believed this, but the story was being told late last century.
I never heard that "tall tale!" Wow!
I don't think straying into a no-fly zone would qualify as a friendly fire incident. As for Dorset, that's a considerable distance. The real issue here would seem to be the lack of a flight plan which makes the whole thing look reckless.
Great story Professor Felton about the loss of Glen Miller. He was truly an American Treasure for his music and service. We will never know what happen to him but his legacy is seal in stone.
A seal made out of stone, or a seal somehow encased in stone?
“[Glenn Miller’s] not dead! He’s missing!”
- Dorothy Zbornak, “The Golden Girls”
That is a good point. Why would the Army list him dead if they did not know? You would think they would list him as MIA.Strange! :)
Tyler Satterfield - Can’t count the number of times that line went through my mind as I watched this documentary! Much respect for Mr. Miller & his beautiful music, but Bea Arthur’s delivery of that line keeps me in stitches.
One of the best yet from Dr. Felton.
Yet another really interesting production. Thank you.
Have his vinyl hanging up in my room. One of my favorite artists and I’m in my early 20s.
In the late 1960's, my nan related the story of Glenn Miller dying in a brothel in Paris, so it must have been widely known. My nan was a nurse during WWII and was given gifts by wounded Free French soldiers she helped care for. Certainly, this particular theory was well know prior to the 1980's as my nan died in 1971.
What did you and your nan do in a brothel in the late sixties?
When you say "gifts".....
Thank you for doing this story Mark. You addressed at least two of the likely theories about Glen Miller’s disappearance. The third one was a death bed confession from a U.S. anti aircraft battery soldier who said that he and his superior were responsible for shooting down Glen Miller by accident.
I was in the mood for a bit of Mark Felton, you don't disappoint.
I unterstood that the "time differences" were due to the US and RAF using different times. One was on "local" the other GMT. This gave an hour difference. With that reconciled it does indeed put the Millers aircraft and the RAF in the same time and place. Also one of the two airment on the Lanc (I forget which ) was a Canadian who trained on the Norseman and was familiar with it. Hence regognising the specific type of aircraft under them. However it could have been going into the sea anyway due to iceing when the bombs were falling. So the death of Miller could be either or both senarios.
anyway of getting a fix on the approximate crash location?
Also who the heck was in the other Norseman if it wasn't Miller's plane?
@@aaronvenn8660 could have been anything from a training flight, a mechanical test flight, a mail courier...heck who knows??
Given the location of the Greenwich Meridian, "local" time in the areas talked about would have been virtually the same as GMT....not sure how an hours difference can come into it, unless the US forces were using a different time ZONE...which makes little sense.
Normally, British time is GMT during winter and British Summer Time (BST) during summer. BST is the same as GMT +1. But, in 1944 GMT was never used in Britain where "War Time" was in effect during WWII. During War Time, time was advanced an additional hour all year long. In December of 1944 the time would have been GMT +1. In July of 1944 the time would have been GMT +2. At any rate, I can't imagine the many Allied aviators serving in Britain were running on different time zones depending on nationality. The Allies had been working together to fly countless missions out of Britain for five years.
I did a presentation when I was about 10 years old regarding Glenn Miller as I loved, and still love, his music. I always found his disappearance very odd.
Thanks for doing a video on this!
I love the intro music on this Mark! Nice departure from the usual, keep up the awesome work man you are an inspiration
Thank you for your time, effort and expertise. I've always wondered about the events surrounding Mr. Miller's disappearance.
Either way. Accident or not, that's war. Glenn died doing what he loved the most, trying to entertain the troops. It was a loss to the world. You can't blame the Brits if the plane wandered into a bomb dump zone. They wouldn't have done it on purpose. It was rather foolish and risky to fly into that danger zone. Either way we were blessed for what he did give to the world for us to enjoy all these years later. "In the mood" is synonymous for America in the 40's. A sound of a better more innocent, unified and prosperous time. Thank you Mark for telling the story. I do know he served but wasn't aware of the accident that he died in and or the mystery around his death. I see no reason for conspiracy as there is no reason known to entertain the idea. Accidents happen in war, none are intended hence why they are accidents.
👍
Looks like pilot error in the first place: inappropriate weather, sloppy navigation, poor maintenance record on the aircraft. What a shame!
Since the advent of the Internet unfortunately people see a conspiracy before they even research the subject. The culture of it is huge now, almost like a religion to some people. I know intelligent well educated people who now believe some of the craziest conspiracies with a frightening passion. I used to laugh at them, but it's so common now it's all a bit scary, i.e. Qanon, etc. My English Grandma used to love Glen Miller.
@@ianjacka469 well. You have to have some indication or indirect proof. If not people are just guessing and making up stories that comfort thier view point. Some times there is stuff to conspiracies, there is a lot we aren't aware of. But, you have to have enough evidence or motive behind a conspiracy for me to even consider it as remotely true. We will never know exactly what happened but one way or another it appears to be an accident. There is no evidence or witnesses to say Glenn wasn't more than an entertainer determined to entertain the troops. There is no reason to take it beyond that and believe he and Elvis were on a secret cia mission to battle aliens at the Nazi moon base. Lol
@@kevinstrade2752 Definitely, there are many conspiracies I believe in myself, JFK, Princess Diana, Epstein's 'suicide'. But as you say there has to be some solid motives and inconsistent evidence for me to even look into them. The problem lies in that a lot of the crazy conspiracies have some strands of truth in them, and public faith in the people in power is at an all time low in modern times.
Glenn Millers sound is still fresh as a daisy, one wonders how it would of developed if he lived longer, if they found the titanic,, in regard to its depth and the size of the search area, they must be able to find his plane, all the joy he brought to the troops, this should be a priority, yet again Mark surprises me with another amazing topic and I will watch the Glenn Miller story later
'Fresh as a Daisy" was the title of one of Miller's 78 RPM records way back when.
I think it is much easier to find a steel ocean liner than a mostly aluminum small plane.
It's too bad the fishermen didn't record more details about the plane but maybe it was badly damaged or the markings faded from having been submerged so long.
The Norseman was a steel tube framed fabric covered plane with a fabric covered wing. And if it was caught in the detonation of 14 tons of bombs, plus impact,
Little to no chance of finding anything resembling a plane after 77 years.
@@idontcareanymore2754 Add to that the depth at which the plane would've sank, compared to the depth at which the _RMS Titanic_ sank - very difference environments when it comes to corrosion. Also, any fisherman bringing up a war wreck would need to be very wary: how would they know whether the plane they're dredging up has ammunition still onboard, and how stable would that ammunition be?
My 91 year old mom still listens to his music. Thanks for the video
I'm going with Occam's Razor on this one. Killed by carb icing, or possibly rime ice accretion on the aircraft control surfaces, which has killed many a pilot.
Ah....He was boning a French ho, but this fact would have lowered US moral, so they fabricated a story.
Yet another example of the celebrity and the small plane being natural enemies.
Ricky Nelson, Buddy Holly, Jim Croce, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Otis Redding, et al.
This is an excellent presentation. By today’s standards, any time the weather is 10°C/50°F or cooler, with accompanying visible moisture i.e. clouds, fog etc. anti-ice and deicing is required. Weather reports that afternoon across the channel were calling for 1000 foot ceilings with a chance of freezing rain and freezing drizzle. In an aircraft not properly equipped for icing, that’s just almost a death sentence. I’ve heard accounts of the friendly fire scenario all of my life however tend to go with the most likely scenario of flight into icing conditions.
What I'd like to know is...WHY he would have taken that dangerous flight if everything we hear is a "NO GO"...(the pilot/ the plane/plane's engine/weather/bombs being dropped/unapproved flight, etc.)??? Was it an old-fashioned case of "get-there-itis?" Just wondering...
such a great channel. just amazing every time.
Well like all of your videos Dr Felton this one is a first for me. Thanks for sharing!
Another quite simply outstanding video. I've been following Mr Felton for some time now.
These exceptional highly polished video productions are not only educational but their history content is outstanding 👏
Thank you Mr Felton, I've watch just about every production you've posted.
Many thanks!
Hell yes. Number one comment. Keep up good work. Appreciated in Tennessee.
This story hits close to home. My mother was a photo finisher during the war and had access to hard to get film. My father was in the Army, in Europe at the time. Glen Miller’s band was in the area for an upcoming show, just waiting on Glen to arrive. Some of the band members heard that my dad had access to film. They offered to trade tickets to the performance for the film. That sounded like a easy trade to my dad and the deal was made. That was a good trade for the band, but my dad lost out, Glen’s plane went missing and that’s the end of the story.
Thank you, Mark Felton. As always a superb 10 min (ich). My farther was a Miller fan to the bone. He was only age 15 at VE day. I have therefore listened to Miller (and many more jazz musicians) all my life. My farther cuoted Miller for one special line. In an interview he was criticised for playing the new music. What was wrong with the the old music. To that he (should have) said "You are not winning the war with the WWI weapons". So hence you also need(!!) new music. I still think of that line when someone criticise new stuff🙂🎷🎺🎹 (Christ I don't have a thrombone-emoji😖)
Love the change of intro music 👌👍
I thought I was on the wrong channel for a second
Grew up with this music as my Father was able to see him play twice during the war at a USAAF bases here in the UK,
Twinwood farm was visited some years ago.
Absolutely fascinating Mark. Great narration .
Interesting indeed, as are all of your videos. Thanks for posting it.
Moonlight serenade and In the mood are timeless songs. Both still show up in movies and media 80 years later. It is a shame we didn’t get to hear what he would’ve came up with if he had lived…
Just signed up for your Patreon. Thanks for all the great content!
After WWII, the Miller family kept the band going. They still play concerts wold-wide. Granted the band members are a lot younger, but they play from the same music sheets ( VERY yellowed) that the original band played from. I have been lucky to attend several private concerts they have done in Cincinnati. I saw the original score of "In The Mood" during one of their breaks. VERY, very yellowed, there were notes written in faded pencil all over the margins... like "drums here" with an arrow pointing at a line. While we were looking at it, one of the members came up behind us and told us what we were looking at was the original score. Not just a copy, the the actual sheet they used when they first played the song. As you can tell, I am not a musician, but I was mightily impressed.
I love these little bit stories of the past. RIP Glen, your music lives on.
I've been waiting for this video to come out for ages! This is why you need to sync your watches to the time zone!
Glenn's notorious fear of flying came to fruition. My woodwind repairman,Mr. Zwally, was his drummer but left the band before the war. He told me that Glenn was one of the nicest guys in a tough business. Thanks for the in-depth information Dr. Felton. I'm sure Mr. Zwally would have appreciated the information OOps! I just looked up Mr. Zwally's obit. He did play with Glenn in WW2 - An Army Air Forces veteran, Zwally served in the 724th division, playing drums with the Glenn Miller and Moe Wexler bands. He worked with George S. Howard, the creator of the original Army Air Corps Band.
Great story! Thank you for sharing with us
P
My dad loved big band music, grew up during the war, and loved Glenn
Interesting take on a longtime mystery. In common with some other commenters, I hadn't been aware of the fisherman dragging up a Norseman plane. Good video Mr. Felton, thank you for such interesting productions.
Excellent as always!
Nice touch with "In the mood"
in the beginning - totally unexpected (by me, at least !)
I was wondering when you'd get around to this story about the possible fate of 1930s-40s big band leader, Glenn Miller. Thanks for covering it! I recall at least over 20 years ago an American network TV evening news broadcast interviewing an RAF bombardier who witnessed a jettisoned bomb (of many) over the English Channel striking a light aircraft and knocking off its wing. This incident took place at the time of Glenn Miller's loss.
Agreed, I think it was the PMS channel here in Kentucky.
@@formerparatrooper I recall the story appearing on one of the major TV networks (CBS, NBC or ABC).
@@WAL_DC-6B You may be right. My memory is going to be slightly foggy as we have not watched any of those channels or listened to the indoctrination they dress up as news in years, they have all gone to the dark side.
@@formerparatrooper gone to the dark side they have, but Jedi there still are.
I thought that the fisherman that found this aircraft, reported that the wings were intact, so the bombardier must have been confused?
Thanks for another informative and interesting video
Glen Miller was one of the reasons I have played the trumpet my whole life. Him Louie Armstrong and Winton Marcellus. But, I had no idea about this and his death. Thank you again for the amazing short snippet of history.
This would make a compelling movie about the investigator and we could see "flashbacks" of the event according to the RAF and a few others.
In the Mood, my ringtone for over 15 years.
Thanks Mark
Great Story !!
Love The Channel !!
I worked with a fellow who had an alternative theory, and that was that the plane came down in the medway estuary. His story was that he used to work on barges and other boats along the medway and thames in the 70s, and one day when the tide was particularly low, he was sitting on the edge of the ship, and just below the waters surface was the silhouette of a complete aircraft, which he later found was a norseman. So he came up with his own idea that the plane was massively off course, and had come down in the medway. He had always wanted to go back to the spot and do a proper survey in later years. He had spoken to divers, and a few others about a boat.He retired some years back, about ten years ago i think, and ive not kept in touch, but id like to think he could get out there and find the wreck of the craft, and maybe possibly solve this mystery