Can kata teach me to fight?

[@semichiganandy2127]

I've found that quite a few of the kids who join martial arts schools (actually, their parents decide to enroll them because the kids are being bullied) are very mild mannered types and frequently are quite uncoordinated. The kata seem to help considerably with improving their coordination. Having some success with kata also gives them some confidence. It opens the doors of their minds to further learning. Plus, it's something that they can practice at home, without a partner. It also helps to make the passive, mild mannered kids more assertive. Kata are a great tool for developing certain types of young students. From what I've read, they do have meaning at a higher level. But they also have utility for the beginner who is more of a sheep than a sheep dog.

[@ninjafruitchilled]

I agree entirely, but from my own point of view I find kata getting more and more important the longer I train. I am up to 25 years now, and also getting older (ok I'm only in my 30s but nevertheless I still feel it compared to my 20s). There is so much in kata that I never understood or thought about earlier in my training. Even really basic stuff, like correct posture (which I was slack about when I was younger, because I just wanted to fight), I now find kata is really excellent for training. My back was getting worse due to years of my office job, but it has been getting a lot better since I really started focusing on posture in my kata. And at the same time, it has improved my actual technique considerably.

[@suchasin]

You have a point there

[@huyhoangbui6347]

To me doing bodyweight workouts are alot better than doing kata.

[@semichiganandy2127]

@@huyhoangbui6347 Are you referring to helping out introverted 8 year old kids who are being terribly bullied by groups of punks in school and who has never participated in any physical activity? If not, then my post, which specifically refers to "passive, mild mannered kids" and "the beginner who is more of a sheep than a sheep dog" (if you are not familiar with the use of 'sheep' and 'sheep dog' in regards to fighting, then look them up) in the U.S , not other cultures, is not related to your comment. Many. most in the U.S., of those kids have absolutely no interest in body weights. The yelling in the kata alone helps bring out some assertiveness in them and initiates a slow emergence of confidence. Doing kata in groups also makes them feel like they're part of a group. In 15 years of teaching, I saw a lot of young souls transformed from sad, totally lacking in confidence and on the way to depression and into normally developing healthy personalities.

[@rocklee5434]

@@semichiganandy2127 kata made me feel like a total dumbass every time I did it push-ups and pull-ups never did and this is coming from one of “those” kids

[@OGFITNESS]

Man i feel as though the master should be breaking down those forms and explaining the actual application so that the student can practice all while understanding deeply what he is trying to master.
Leaving it for the student to discover ten years later is just crappy teaching im my opinion.

[@driesvanoosten4417]

O.G. FITNESS Indeed. Martial arts training should consist of conditioning, forms, applications and sparring.

[@googleisacruelmistress1910]

Well the problem is that a lot of them don't know I call it the generational loss effect, think of it this way one day you suddenly get enlightened and make up a martial covering all of fighting and every situation,
but now to pass it all down you need kata and since they are so comprehensive they turn out to be pretty complicated, so you pass the movements down to your disciples but it's really impossible to tell them everything as is for them to remember everything,
now years later you acknowledge they're good enough to teach and they set off to open their own dojos and proceed to teach a group of students themselves, and those students eventually graduate and proceed to teach another group of students and so on...
You can see the problem right, neither the master is capable of passing down all their knowledge nor the student understanding it so over time there is a loss of knowledge and then let's say 100 years later about 5 to 10 % of the explanations are gone, more if they were lazy teachers and their students are left to either understand some of the missing parts themselves or to not understand it at all...
though the reverse is also true, for example I, with no formal studies in taekwondo but some independent research in it, and a 1st degree blackbelt in taekwondo got in to a argument with me saying one move was a arm break while he said it was a leg catch, so we went to consult a 4th degree blackbelt to see who's right, do you know which one of us turned out to be write? neither, it was a block (well according to him anyway), but in our own way we kind of expended on what was intended which we couldn't have possibly been though buy anyone because those moves were new created by our own imaginations...
...
Well I rambled on for a bit too long, sorry for that =D

[@bilbobaggins5815]

Agreed

[@Docinaplane]

I've heard more explanations of kata moves that make no sense than explanations that do.

[@frealms]

As said in some way or another before, I think it falls back to what Ramsey said himself before. Most of this stuff was lost to time, vanity and persecution. Manuals were mostly what was left and that's what is trained.
Current martial arts seem to resemble more basic education. Think early school years. You get concepts introduced, explanation comes later years... Except the ain't a "highschool" or "college" in martial arts

[@lauri6052]

"only doing kata is like learning to swim on a dry land"- Bruce Lee

[@OGFITNESS]

Or like splashing water without actually swimming. 😁😂🤣

[@WobstaCat]

Tino Gisondi you've got a good point

[@dipayandegtyarev7177]

Tino Gisondi Serious or joking?

[@AcceleratingUniverse]

What if there was a video on this topic where someone didn't post this quote?

[@lauri6052]

@@AcceleratingUniverse it's very important quote and it is the best and shortest answer

[@davidcdun8896]

You learn the techniques correctly, and you learn which muscles to tense and to relax. Muscle conscienceness. The level 1 knowledge.

[@GokuInfintysaiyan]

It corrects the basics and keeps them tight as well as allows you to understand the individual concepts to better understanding by isolating them

[@Angel7black]

the only thing i really think is good about kata is it makes you more explosive, helps your balance a lot gives you really good form in ypur movement and strikes. tho the movement and strikes the way theyre done is pretty ineffective in fights. but when you look at guys like lyoto machida or wonderboy and how explosive they are its hard to say theres nothing worth it there. but theres prob better ways of getting that same ability than katas

[@EliteBlackSash]

Short answer in 30 secs: There are many diff categories of “kata” / FORMS, with many diff purposes in mind. Some are for conditioning, some for flexibility, some are shadowboxing, some are more alphabetical - all are technique drills. Kata is not meant to teach you how to fight. Only Approach it as a technical exercise. Then go APPLY the structure, techniques, transitions in real time and adapt everything to natural movement & pressure. “San Sau” - free hands. Free your hands up from the strict form, and break it apart. Practice each segment separately thousands of times. Practice each movement in real time w pressure. Study and take note of why this moves that way, why that transitions into that, and understanding the proper CONTEXT of it. Today people filter martial arts forms mostly through a lens of “chinese boxing” - when a majority of the moves in a lot of these forms are not actually meant to be blocks or strikes, but rather grappling, disarm, locking, throwing. Makes sense in context when you think about the nature of combat from 1600-1800s. But, as a rule, with forms... always contemplate them through a 4 part lens: hand striking, kicking, grappling/throwing, and joint locking.

[@varanid9]

So true. "Kata", specifically, is for moving Zen meditation in Japanese Karate-Do. The Chinese "Kuen", or fist sets, they are collections of methods that, once memorized, turn the body into a recording of that style for secretly passing along in an illiterate society, while, in other styles, such as most Hung Gar, they are choreographed fight scenes for Chinese boat operas. The short "forms" of boxing, such as in Hsing-Yi, are simply repetition drills. If you go back far enough to rougher times, styles like White Crane, Wing Chun and Southern Mantis had no "forms". Even today, in truly traditional training, extensive drilling of simple basics and conditioning make up the core of training, polished off with realistic bare-knuckle sparring, but those kinds of schools are almost impossible to find.

[@dwaynegreen1786]

EliteBlackSash Very well presented...I’m glad you said it, I get so tired of trying to explain all this to people. Many still don’t get it.

[@talaniel]

Yeah, practicing kata is like practicing scales in music - it is technical thing

[@BradYaeger]

I agree, every form of Martial Arts, even Boxing, Wrestling and MMA Sports fighting has some form of Kata or solo practice. On it's own it may make you a better fighter than no training at all, but it's not a replacement for actual contact with a resisting opponent , just a great supplement . They are also important historical resources from a time when there was no film to record movement

[@Emp6ft10in]

That's a great point about how for a long time there was no way to record or even write down movement. It really makes you realize how hard knowledge was to keep before the digital information age or the invention of the printing press.

[@houseofaction]

no they don't Kata is a prearanged set of movements that are static you don't have any improvistation or adaption. in boxing you have shadowboxing which is just shadowsparring. you are doing movements that you would do in a sparring match

[@nickofengland]

Jesse Enkamp has a cool video on this topic: "This bunkai secret makes your kata practical" it is called.
"A block is a lock is a blow is a throw" ;)

[@firemunky1980]

That's bc all karate or gung fu is mixed martial art. Kata is the code.

[@sliderx1897]

firemunky1980 the original mixed martial art

[@bongkem2723]

Jesse explains it greatly: it all depends on the distance !

[@danguillou713]

I think of forms in Chinese martial arts (same thing as kata, right?) as mnemonic devices. They are physical rhyming lists that makes it easier to remember to remember to train all the techniques in the style library. For instance, in our ”crane form” we did lots and lots of movements where we ”pecked” with thumbs touching fingertips. And for a long time I thought we were practicing some kind of advanced precision striking, and ... it didn’t make any sense (even though Itold myself stories about how it eventually would). And then I did similar movements in a taiji class (except there it was called ”holding a lantern”) but now I was told that is was hook-catch movements. Suddenly all those old crane forms transformed inside my head: they were all different variations of hooking and catching - wrist, elbow, upper arm, neck... Unfortunately, a lot of teachers only teach the forms and not the applications. We sure didn’t go from crane form straight to hooking drills...

[@frealms]

Someday... Someday I'll get out there and train

[@MrParkerman6]

Tomorrow, the greatest day ever invented! There is absolutely nothing a man can't accomplish- Tomorrow!

[@grayalun]

Do it, it's more fun and rewarding than just going to the gym for me I've never regretted starting martial arts only regret is I didn't start sooner.

[@busfeet2080]

Kata is mainly movement training to teach you to become familiar with certain positions you may find yourself in. It is a supplementary drill that should only be a small percentage of your training, if you even opt to do it at all. I train in karate which teaches these kata, but I spend way less time on that than I do on my boxing and Muay Thai.

[@kkarx]

Practicing kata or kihon helped me to prepare for sparring. It also teached me proper weight distribution which is something even a lot of mma fighters lack. At the same time you practice your straight punches, breathing and strength. It teached me all basics in a very short amount of time. Id say for beginners it is the most effective way to learn MA.

[@firemunky1980]

Kata is to teach principle.

[@coltonowens2742]

If you read Empty Hand, The essence of Budo Karate by Mabuni Kenwa, he talks about what Kata really is, movement training. I read Championship Fighting on your recommendation Ramsey, and the best way I can describe how Kata is trained today is impure. Nearly all Karate Dojos today do these static movements that consist of limb flailing with useless blocking and the like. (Don't even get me started and the acrobatic crap that allot of Taekwondo Dojangs do) Kata in my Dojo is performed very differently. Our movements are continuous, driven by falling steps or "The Falling Tree" as called by Kenwa Mabuni. Everything we do from punching, to kicking is driven by the core muscles. The watering down of Boxing that Dempsey laments about is the exact same thing that has happened to Karate, most Dojos are impure. Just want to say real quick the full contact styles, (which is what my style is apart of) are really the only Dojos worth going to these days if you really want to learn how to fight in most cases. Also, Karate does not have everything, so get out there and cross train!

[@justaregularguynamednoah1581]

I love this answer. My sensei seems to know way more about the kata and pinyins than I do. So I have asked him several times about why certain moves are in my forms and he always has an answer which has been very helpful for me. I practice Kenpo Karate the art of perpetual change so our forms are one of the few things that are traditional however my sensei and other kenpo guys are known to change or throw away techniques we know dont work or seem unpractical. I have seen several moves that I have been taught completely change so its been a hassle trying to get rid of the old habbits. I have used a few of my techniques in kata in sparring and it worked our better than I thought it would. Every kenpo school is different and the founder of kenpo said "if 100 years from know kenpo is the same and unchanged I have failed as a teacher" all the techniques are mostly Just to give you an idea of what you can do obviously you can combine moves and make your own thing up I recommend playing with it and making sure its been tested with live resistance before you use your newfound move.

[@danb7856]

The other day i saw a kids tkd class at my local leisure centre where i go gym. There were kids that looked 6 or 7 running around with brown and black belts. Smh

[@adammills9715]

Excellant video as always!
Imo kata cannot teach you to fight either competitively or for self protection. However, I would say kata can be used in a pragmatic way to record information and supplement your solo training.
Iain Abernethy has an interesting 4 step process to learning kata:
1.learn the solo form
2. Drill it with a partner
3. Identify the underlying principles so you can adapt and vary I.e. getting of line, limits of joints, unbalancing to set up throws etc.
4. Apply it in live sparring.
All too often kata is applied (if applied at all) against a non resistant opponent throwing straight punches from 2 miles away with the hand on the hip for no reason. Okinawan kata were records of an infighting and grappling system to be applied at close range
Ps. I love what was said about the applied pulling hand

[@professorshannahrobin7435]

I don't agree with Adams

[@adammills9715]

@@professorshannahrobin7435 okay, that's fine :)

[@thomaskarate]

I respect your understanding of kata.... One of the best explanations I've heard... Osu!

[@kamilpawlowski6576]

For those who want to learn about bunkai (application of Kata) there is a great book called 'The Way of Kata' by a couple of Goju practitioners. From a practical point of view it talks about how to come up with applications for Kata. From a historical PoV it talks about how we got to this 'application-less' kata world. That being said, Kata teaches you how to move, and programs your body to do certain moves after others. I'm in strong agreement with Ramsey that the hand coming back always has something in it, but if you look at the evolution of (especially) karate when Itosu and later Funakoshi propagated it through (first the Okinawan and then) the Japanese school system they had to take blunt a lot of it by turning grabs and such into punches, to keep the students safe. Which is why it appears that all thats left in the technique is the proper hip movement to generate power. That being said, start thinking about bunkai early, it will make a huge difference in how you practice the kata, and 'The Way of Kata' will give you some guide posts as to whether or not the application you're thinking of is effective. (If you have to justify a kart-wheel, I'm sorry)

[@fonkymonkestudios7798]

In the old days of karate people learned the bunkai first, at the dojo I go to we learn the bunkai and kata at the same time.

[@wilhelmu]

just look at kata, then look at kumite. nowehere in the kata are you supposed to jump like a bunny, or grab the opponent, yet people in kumite do it all the time. that's how divorced modern karate is from the foundations that were supposed to be preserved in kata. old masters roll in the grave.

[@fonkymonkestudios7798]

@@wilhelmu In traditional karate you actually do grab people.

[@wilhelmu]

Bob134728942069 which traditional karate? i trained shorin ryu and we were never ever taught how to grab. we were taught how to throw, and how to escape from grab, but we were never thought to grab opponents sleeves or kimono and do wrestle like they often do in kumite

[@fonkymonkestudios7798]

@@wilhelmu I don't know about grabbing sleeves but I do shito Ryu and we grab arms and wrists a lot. I know shorin ryu is older though, but didn't itosu practice it? Cause I know he was Shito ryus founder's(mabuni) first master.

[@dswynne]

When I last took on a martial art, I was flatly told that "katas", by themselves, were useless in a fight. What I was then told that performing katas helped with conditioning the body, and that only after executing the "katas" well did we begin the spar. Why? To break from the static routine in order to perform dynamically, using the same techniques. So, if a person threw a punch, we had to decide on which "kata" would be best to counter the punch. It was only when we didn't have to think about which "kata" to use, would the instructor say that we knew the basics to sparring. And that's when the more advanced student were introduced to Sanda. I studied Wing Chun for a year before dropping out, so I never advanced beyond Siu Lium Tao, btw, which meant that I still don't know how to fight, as far as the instructor was concerned. Go figure.

[@michaelkrull3331]

My karate teacher said that we are taught the kata, and it is up to us the students to discover it's application. I thought that was just so ass backward. They are the ones teaching us these forms, insisting we spend loads of precious time perfecting them because they are so essential to mastering the art, but the onus is on the student, who probably knows little to nothing, to learn how to make it work? The more I think about it the more it's one of the most barking mad things I've heard in my life!
Also, I was at a seminar, where the visiting instructor briefly covered the subject of bunkai (that is form applications for those who don't know) and he said his sensei--qed the school itself--didn't believe in bunkai. Okay, we go to karate to learn self defense, we practice kata to learn karate, the kata is not applicable sparring and self defense. Whaaaaat?! This kind of stuff was among a number of other doubts about my style (Shotokan) that drove me to give it up.

[@stevewaters1516]

My friend find a better teacher kata is deadly the techniques work n can be used in sparring or combat but the work better in combat cuz that's what they were designed for not sport I wish u luck in finding a better instructor

[@Angel7black]

@@stevewaters1516 the issur i have with this is that theres no reason to practice the kata when you can literally just practice the technique. the only reason the kata is even taught its just because of tradition. its by no means the most effective way to train a technique in the 21st century. like you shouldnt have to practice a kata for 10 years just to learn a wrist lock. in BJJ we just learned how to apply a new lock or choke everyday, even shit like heel hooks, which are banned in IBJJF tourneys, most places still train them cause theyre important af to know how to do or how to avoid, especially if you plan on competiting in no-gi or MMA where heel hooks are just fair game. at the end of the day we should just admit kata is mostly pointless, we just do it out of tradition. yeah theres things you can learn from them but theres more effective ways to learn the same things

[@stevewaters1516]

@@Angel7black yes its much easier now but back when I started everything wasn't mainstream n there was no youtube

[@pavolverescak1712]

@@Angel7black you don't do form practice?

[@Juusokakku]

That arm pulled next to the hip while punching translates to grabbing the opponents arm, shoulder or neck in order to unbalance them and to make them crash into your fist.

[@xyon9090]

*Watching punch that speed bag*
Makes me feel bad about how I do in Speed bags.
I suck at them man!

[@hsinhaowang]

Most TKD forms don't work because most of them weren't designed with application in mind. Many were made to be different from Shotokan forms. Shotokan forms have been "simplified and dumbed down" by Funakoshi to make them easier to learn by children.
Forms can work, but only if the teacher knows and transmigrates to the student the applications. A good form is a mere tutorial; a tutorial that can work as a solo drill. It's not necessary, but for many, the tutorial works as a great learning tool.
Japanese have Kata for many things. Tea ceremonies, sweeping, many things. Not just in martial arts. It's just a learning method for them. Chinese and Ryu Kyu follow that same learning pattern.
You're mostly right about the Hikite/chambered hand. It's for grabbing and pulling in. Hikite means "pulling hand" for a reason, after all. All the other "reasons" came out from students who were never told the 'why' with the 'how.' A bulk of the misunderstandings comes from Funakoshi dumbing down Shotokan and never explaining the 'why' to the Kata. On top of Japanese students not asking. (Culturally, a student wouldn't ask questions. Japanese society looks down upon that.)

[@JaguarsCreator1]

TKD forms have applications. I've studied a number of them. A lot of old TKD/Korean Karate books contain locks and throws you can find in the forms.

[@hsinhaowang]

JaguarsCreator1 Most=/=all And forms are different from Kwan to Kwan and different between the ITF and Kukkiwon.

[@JaguarsCreator1]

True. I am mostly familiar with the ITF forms, but I've studied a little bit of the KTA black belt poomsae and they seem to have applications too.

[@hsinhaowang]

ITF is closer to the original intent. Only a few things are loss thanks to the Shotokan history, but Choi added much of his own power development theories and applications. Such as the hips into and the sign wave theory, etc.

[@shankarsatheesan6846]

I wouldn't completely blame Funakoshi, some of it goes to Itosu too! But, I feel that theargest blame goes to his students for "standardising" karate. If you read the karate do kyohan, you can find that a good amount of the actual bunkai still is there, for example, the fireman's carry and throw in the kata empi. One doesn't see such brutal violence in modern karate, this is because the students of shotokan wanted to standardise it and hence we have the current impractical version.

[@EVENINGWOLF666]

Benefits of Kata. The order I place them is has no bearing on their importance but is just the order they came to me as I pondered this topic.
Developing stamina
Being able to do techniques at full strength without injuring partner
Developing the ability to shift balance when transitioning between techniques.
Developing the idea of dealing with multiple attacks from multiple.
Developing a sense of rhythm and timing
Easy way of memorizing a large number of techniques in a short span of time
One of the things I am grateful for from the teacher that taught me Hwa Rang Do, Aaron Flores, was that we were required to know the combat applications of all the techniques in every kata we performed. He would at odd moments stop us in the middle of the kata and have us demonstrate the proper usage of the technique we had just performed. There are other styles, such as Isshin-Ryu, part of the training includes having an oppnent, or multiple opponents attack you as you perform the kata and you use the technique at that point in the kata to defend, attack, counter or evade the opponent.
The real problem that I have found with kata is that too many instructors either completely ignore the combat applications or will wait until far later in the training process to explain the applications. When used properly kata can be a useful aid in training along with other tools but, like any part of training is only part of the process.

[@engineeredlifeform]

I've definitely had an 'aha' moment while sparring. Took a spinning back kick to my floating rib, pretty sure the noise that came out of me before I hit the mat was 'aha'.

[@pompadour_gagarin1723]

It should be noted that in the older japanese traditional styles, kata was done in pair with a teacher "leading" a student. It was mostly weapon-based martial arts but it was also the case for grappling as well (and judo still had those... it used to anyway). That makes applications much easier to get ("it's probably not that because his sword would be in my gut"). I think that solo karate forms comes from another sort of teaching (probably chinese forms since karate comes from there), even though ultimately they are the same thing.
But even those styles were, as you said, practiced as a very advanced and serious hobby (by people who a lot of times also had experiences in war). Their aim is preversion and east transmission of teachings and techniques more than explicit direct applications. That's why it is said "kata isn't waza".

[@OGFITNESS]

Hmmm, very interesting point about the preservation of technique, so katas are a way of remembering techiniques so you can transmit it later. And then of course you have to use sparring to perfect it.
Judo still has the nage no kata, meaning kata of throwing, which you have to demonstrate succesfully on the right and left side in front of the federation members so you can obtain your black belt.

[@pompadour_gagarin1723]

I'm not that knowledgeable of judo but for what I remember, their curriculum still retains kata from the older style that Kano learned, some Yoshin-ryu lineage school iirc. That's just exactly this preservation thing, despite the fact that Kano wanted to build a new way of training and doing martial arts.
Also, for the brief look I had of the nage-no-kata, some still display strikes like shomen or yokomen though they wouldn't be used in a judo match. This because gendaï budo retained the kata as a tool and not a direct application.
In the fencing style that I've been taught, the word kata is used but also the word kajo meaning "lesson", which is quite telling.

[@r.matthews594]

One of the most accurate and clear ways I've ever heard breaking down the purpose of the speed bag at an almost academic level. This is the difference between a dedicated student (me) and a person who is not just a coach, but also a teacher (you). Because they are not always the same thing. Good point about Karate Kid (especially III), there is a lot of what Terry Silver says that actually makes sense in real fighting.

[@ruddig]

i am sold on this channel. thank you so much/ always good topics// very smart/ i am a new jujitsu student from indiana ..i am 46 just wanted to let you know you have inspired me to do new things thanks soo much best of luck to you and ypoures

[@daswordofgork9823]

As a Kenjutsu sparring instructor in Japan once said (was under Tennen Ryshin Ryu: not sure if I spelled it right): you can do quite well just by doing Kata, but as the movements are pre-arranged you lose all sense of urgency. That is why you have to fight and spar using these techniques and you will eventually develop and get them.

[@ninjafruitchilled]

This is true, but kata can also be used with a sense of urgency. It depends how good your understanding of the technique is and how good your imagination is, but aside from when we were focusing on learning or refining technique, I always trained kata with the visualisation of application and combat. You should get fired up and trigger your adrenaline flow for kata. Imagine hitting with all your force and defeating opponent after opponent in various directions. This can help maintain the "sense of urgency" as you call it. Of course it can never be the same as fighting, but it can actually have higher urgency than sparring if you obtain the right mindset. In sparring you generally need to hold back to avoid seriously injurying your sparring partner, but there is no such need in kata. You can kill all your imaginary opponents no problem :). Kata needs this "fighting spirit".

[@plasmastormel5940]

The kata really help me with body awareness and an understanding of why something would work. That being said most don’t work in reality and they only really help get to a point where you know where your whole body is and where your feet are. They don’t help a whole ton with sparring because a lot of it is abandoned in sparring.

[@lathminster]

I like that you made that point so clearly, along with kata being no quick fix and it doesn't teach fighting on its own. Form, axis control, targeting, proper distancing, balance, body dynamics, when to tense and when to relax your muscles, how to move and shift stances efficiently, how to breath, and at some point how to apply speed and power without it all falling apart. This took me almost 4 years, practicing daily, to really integrate. Along the way, you break down each move into multiple variations and solutions with partners. The outcome as it applies to fighting is you have hundreds of workable options presented to you, and you take those few that you identify with and works best for you, for your body type and size. The stuff that fits you like a glove and becomes yours. For me one of the things is elbows. Fear my elbows. It doesn't replace sparring or fighting, and doesn't teach you that on its own. However, for those who take the time and have the instruction to appreciate it, kata add significant value for someone who wants to fight.

[@DanishnSonic]

This is my insight of training for a few years in karate. It all starts with
Kihon or known as basic, its straight to the point. It like when you first learn a jab and such, making sure your form is perfect for the
Kata, to me its just combinations that i apply in sparring, but it takes time to actually be able apply it. Just like after learning combinations with the pad and applying it in
Kumite, which is sparring but also directly translates to free grappling. This is where i take what works and what doesn't.
The 3 basic training of karate, but you do you, and i respect that.

[@codycushman2738]

Hey, man, Love your videos. Here's my two cents: I like forms, and I feel like they are a great time to focus on your basics, improve your stances, get some flow, and perfect your moves. If you can't do those moves well when you're going slow and thinking about them, you're probably not doing them right when you're moving fast and under stress. I come from a kenpo background, and most of the moves in the forms are taught elsewhere in our art on people, so I usually have at least some vision as to what the moves are supposed to do on a live opponent. They are kind of a structured version of shadow boxing, just like practicing combos on a semi-static opponent is sort-of like padwork.
I think they have a lot of value if you approach them with an aim towards developing balance, speed, power, smoothness, and getting comfortable with some defensive and offensive patterns. If it's just a dance you memorize, then you won't get much out of it.
I also think that the are just one of many tools, and many arts overemphasize them. I wish that my own training had involved more padwork, drilling with and without resistance, light continuous sparring, and straight-up physical training.
Also, I'd love to see a video about some of the applications of speed-bag patterns and motions to combat.

[@JDCEsq1]

Gymkata is the only kata that helps you fight, so long as you have a pommel horse.

[@dcjxd]

In the budo dojo that I train at we always start with katas, but only as a blueprint for actual combat. We train it faster and faster and then implement them in real sparring. This flow from abstraction to practice really helps to understand that a single technique isn't worth anything, it's only there to become a part of your muscle memory and reflexes. Otherwise, you would say someone is an artist even though you have just tought the person everything about the color blue.

[@arnefines2356]

This video reallly makes me proud of the learning enviroment in our wtf-tkd club.
When learning new poomsaes, or having a poomsae focused traing day, the different applications of the steps are explained by the instructors.
And when doing Hosinsool, we practice the curricullum first, and then move on to using them with resistance, and often an initial distraction.

[@ZeroIkarus]

In my humble experience, a kata is like a book ( a book alone doesnt mean anything if you dont understand the words inside or if you are not intellectually ready for it), first time you read it without understanding much. As you continue with a help of a teacher, you start to understand more.When you know it by heart and you understand all its definitions you just start to unravel its meaning.
It doesnt sound practical if you just want to get in and fight, but the role of martial arts are also to educate a young student, they are not only there to teach how to hit someone. Finally, when you feel you have a level of good understanding in your own martial art style, go and check a different style that seems interesting to you. When you return to your katas, you will see there is even more in them than what you thought and how much more you can translate from their context
Even if you wont be able to understand it for any reason in the end, you will have acquired better balance as you move around. Holding a stance while your sensei explains the kata, builds strong stable muscles :P

[@jcarney1987]

Most sensible explanation I've heard yet in regards to martial arts. Traditional martial arts can take years of training to fully understand what is going on, but you have to be assisted on the understanding of the forms as well.

[@charlesrmday]

Very well balanced and pondered opinion. I agree completely. Thanks for this.

[@IsaacLausell]

I really dig your channel and the honesty you bring to martial arts. Thank for sharing your experiences. From what I have observed as a middle aged and very amateurish practitioner Kata is merely a document just to pass the information on just as a book or a video. The type of sparring and instruction make a huge difference. There is no substitution for applying the techniques to a non compliant opponent. It will require adjustments because a real life scrap does not look like a kata. The concept and goal of training is different. The apprenticeship in a traditional setting is quite long as the body is being conditioned in a certain way. I am fine with it all but katas that are not contextualized or not followed up by actual combat won’t teach someone to fight. The instruction is key. There are schools where the sparring in itself is a tag game that does not adress all the ranges of combat. In such case it does not matter if the kata contains locks, trapping and throws. If one does not get a chance to use them or defend against them it is as if they were not there at all.

[@N_Pakhomios]

I just look at katas as the artistic part of martial arts. They may not be functional in actual fighting, but it’s beautiful in expressing your fighting style in an artistic way.

[@Xaarfai]

I am quite happy that my teachers nearly always told us how to interpret this really abstract movements into practical straight forward movments

[@abzhz101handle9]

The location where I do HEMA work was an Okinawan Karate and Kobudo school that would lend us the floor a couple nights a week so long as we paid rent, kept the mats clean... etc. before... 2020 and everything that brought. (Now it's nylon swords in the park.) Well, one day they had a man who was (and I hope still is) a living national treasure of Japan come in to watch and demonstrate some staff forms. And since we were in the same building, we were allowed to show up and even participate.
Guy broke down the kata into like 3-4 movements apiece and demonstrated exactly what they were for with help from other instructors. And they made sense. Even move sets which were functional repeats were really only that way because the original movement could be used as a defense against multiple kinds of attacks, and the position it put the opponent in leant itself to the same counter. I'm not a bo practitioner, and I've haven't taken another kobudo class yet, and due to... internal disagreements the kata itself isn't exactly being shared at the moment, so I didn't memorize it. But I understood it. I knew exactly what was a block, what was an attack... And even if each individual moveset didn't end the fight, it left you in a really good position, so you should be able to figure out what to do from there.
Honestly I think Kata should be remembered as a conversation between a master and about 4 students. With the students going around one at a time asking the master "But what if they do [this]?" And the master responding with a demonstration.
He also agreed with the advice that a weapon should be sized for the person using it. Standardized length doesn't really work when people don't have a standardized height... Or wingspan for example.

[@brokenradio9590]

personally I'd rather not train kata/forms as I like to get straight to the point and practise a technique, Drill it, then spar. However I do feel it can help with making technique more solid and assist in memorising position. but that's just my opinion, usually not welcome here on the wonderful world of the interwebbing. :)

[@firemunky1980]

Kata is made of techniques founded in principle. That is why it makes technique solid. Technique does not work without principle. Kata is straight to the point. What you seek is gratification.

[@imaginarypleb]

Suppose to learn the kata and the bunkai...though thats got to do with the practice of techniques...still gotta practice how to fight of course lol

[@DanishnSonic]

Kihon or known as basic you mean, its straight to the point. It like when you first learn a jab and such, making sure your form is perfect for the
Kata, to me its just combinations that i apply in sparring, but it takes time to actually be able apply it. Just like after learning combinations with the pad and applying it in
Kumite, which is sparring but also directly translates to free grappling. This is where i take what works and what doesn't.
The 3 basic training of karate, but you do you, and i respect that.

[@brokenradio9590]

@@firemunky1980 sorry for the late reply, I was at work.
And yes, you are right, gratification is exactly what I seek ;)

[@brokenradio9590]

@Henrick Boot yeah, karate is pretty cool.
I'm not mad on Olympic karate but kudo and freestyle is pretty banging :)

[@KurtAngle89]

Great as usual. Also many comments shows a certain understanding on the matter.
Another thing to say is that probably kata was never meant for "FIGHTING". Follow me here. All katas were made for SELF DEFENCE. Wich is actually pretty much different. When you fight you choose to, you accept to fight with someone else. Self defence is where you are somehow attacked, you do not expect it, and you have to react quickly, from an uncomfortable position. All katas contain applications to defend from basic acts of phisical violence, like hair pulls, grabs, locks, punches, low kicks, chokes, slaps, headbutts, tackles, and the like. I can't make a list of how many ways to defend a front grab/choke i have found in katas.
In fact, to give one example, Muay Thai (modern, sport version, not the ancient Muay Boran) or boxing are fighting. You start from a distance, with a guard, against somebody similarly trained, knowing you're gonna fight.
Krav Maga is self defence.
Kata training is more akin to krav maga, just for examples's sake.

[@erickeblesh7019]

I'm so happy to hear a mma guy not trash traditional forms! And you are 100% right. Especially chinese forms. They hide alot of stuff and it takes a good teacher to translate the form. Thank you sir for being open minded! It's taken me 14 years to find a teacher that would show me the real meaning in my form

[@gregquinn7817]

I remember when I was 19 the boxing coach I had (he was in his 70s...and this was some 24 years ago). He had us doing something like a kata for boxing. Certain set patterns for footwork, a pivot and certain combinations.
He had us first learn the pattern..then he would explain why, then he would have it done with a partner (so step back pivot over left hook was then done against a lunging opponent...it was a check hook).
He also had us eventually start doing shadow boxing and we would then mix up the patterns however we liked (with him constantly saying to visualize an opponent).

[@vartago]

I had the luck if you will to train forms without knowing at first those where forms at all. Every single pattern of the form was practiced as a two person combat drill until we got down the pattern perfectly. Snap kicks to the groin, straight punches to the throat, elbows to the ribs, throw downs and different wrist locks. After we learned all that from our sifu, we combined each and made up the form from where it was devised. Talking about aha moments. We had them all the time. All that with Sanda modern fighting techniques and sparring at the end of the session. No ground fighting unfortunately but indeed i learned what the forms are really about. Mindlessly training forms is good for the body but that undermines their true value. Learned it the hard way.

[@albertroundtree8546]

Thank you Ramsey 'The Voice', the best explanation I every heard. Yes, I totally agree it is a long term project, but the great difficulty is that for most (myself included), it becomes just a lonely dance.

[@alw1268]

Ur a wealth of knowledge, thank you Sir.

[@Halffullofjuice]

I loved doing Kata. If anything it brought me closer to the art.

[@seanharbinger]

I’m very happy this channel exists! In my youth (similar age), I was a student of Kuk Sool Won which is essentially Tae Qwon Do (plus useless acupressure & wrist locks) and Tai Chi (because Mom) and got regularly outmaneuvered when sparring with my dad who was a student of Kenpo and Judo. While at college I didn’t have immediate access to a school so I basically did an independent study. This involved morphing my favorite techniques: takedowns, ground work, leg locks, strikes and frilly aerial crap and doing Arnold poses in the mirror. I’m sure any progress was largely useless (at the height of my skill and confidence I found myself more adept at avoiding violence) except that I noticed forms were useful as abstract exercises which allow a pattern such as ‘crane movements’ to act as a nemonic, providing a greater well of frontal cortex thought to be directed at breath control and spatial awareness. Short story longer, I began to notice the animal archetypes many katas were named after were like sub-dialects which could and really ought to be personalized to each practitioner as they embellished on certain strengths (based on physicality, personality, constitution, etc); I suddenly found a value in something I thought was just a silly teaching tool. I’m curious about your thought on these concepts and apologies for the hipster vocabulary! (Plus I was super vague but any reaction would be interesting to me) #rockawesomely

[@nunosilva187]

In Maha Kuk Sool, my master tells us to pull the punches to our hips because it helps to improve your "strike retrieval". What I mean by that is that for you to link multiple punches you have to extend (strike) and then pull (retrieve) your punch. If you pull with the same power as you deliver then you are training more muscles and achieving a faster linkage of strikes. If you punch you train your tricep and pectorals, but if you pull hard and quick you train the bicep, tricep and the dorsal muscles on your back. If you practice this first then your striking will improve in combat where you cant use those muscles as effectively. If you have any question or think I am wrong please comment and we can discuss further, I´m all up for the xchange of ideas.

[@krazylevin]

100 percent agreed. Thank you sir.

[@voxnonvox6382]

Kata is important. It is the consolidation of all the movements for muscle memory.

[@danpisula3531]

Very good explanation of Kata. In Shotokan karate you really didn't start learn the application part of Kata till you were brown belt level. I taught it much earlier to my students.

[@PSam1373]

I had just asked a question about Poomsae and now there is a kata video. Not only a great teacher but a mind reader as well. Thanks.

[@xarlockshowtochannel1033]

Kata are very useful for teaching transmission from one stance/strike to the next.

[@PS-qv7xv]

Kata proceeds Bunkai. Bunkai is the practical version of Kata

[@seanhiatt6736]

The study of Karate is a life long journey, and cannot be rushed. Kata teaches correct movement, body mechanics, and fighting applications. However it was never intended to teach you how to fight. Forms are a tool to help the fighter develop, but a good instructor and lots of sparing are needed to understand the use of kata.

[@jackmclean3210]

according to Pat McCarthy, the forms were designed as mnemonic techniques, to codify and pass down knowledge of basic fighting. Kata is a part of the training matrix, alongside kihon (basics, padwork etc) and kumite (partner drills, live sparring) and physical conditioning. Kata is like a book of tips and tricks. The kata and bunkai should always be trained simultaneously. When i was learning karate as a kid, I had the damn good luck of joining a good dojo with a teacher who knew what it was to be in a fight. For our gradings, alongside a physical beasting and sparring, we had to show knowledge of applications of kata alongside the kata itself. Usually we'd do applications twice, once prettily, against nice crisp stepping punches, and once 'fast and dirty' with live resistance against a hay maker or lapel grab etc from the token big fucker every gym and dojo worth it's salt should keep in the equipment locker. When you understand what it is you are doing when you practice kata, you develop relevant muscle memory and the techniques become second nature. I frequently find myself executing techniques in live kickboxing sparring that I learnt at my very first karate lesson when i was 8 years old, the first move of the first kata. step in, smashing the left forearm into the guard, pulling down to clear the limb for long enough to send the right hand over the top, preferably grabbing their arm, controlling their balance and wailing away until they stop fighting back. admittedly it only works so well because most kickboxers don't expect people to come in with limb clearing techniques, but still, I love my karate kata, and often look to them for inspiration, but the only reason i know how to read the kata, is because I already have a basic knowledge of practical fighting.

[@londiniumarmoury7037]

I've never thought of my Kata/Form training as a part of my combat training, I've always seen it as part of my conditioning, the same way horse stance is for example. When I was really young I started various Chinese forms, and the guy who was teaching me bagua zhang and taijiquan showed me how to do an exercise he called "rooting" and we would walk and stay in very low stances and go through various forms focusing on lowering the center of gravity, while drawing our hands from the ground to the air, and he would ramble about various heaven and earth proverbs as my legs turned to jelly every week.
I am a fan of traditional forms, the are not all for the same reason either, some fighting styles had to be hidden in dance moves, when an oppressive government banned the martial training of village men etc. I still practice my old Chinese forms to this day, even though I train in HEMA now. Chinese stance holding and conditioning will always remain in my regime.
Fajin

[@CaptPostmod]

I'm not defending or supporting them in the least! But this is the one thing in the sales pitch from the Dillman/Wally Jay schools that lands well. They explain that kata helps develop basic grappling skills as much as striking skills-just as you point out with grabbing your kick and then snapping with a punch. Thinking of kata as a way to mix striking and grappling movements, it's an appealing idea.

[@asanyal296]

Best video I have seen on the subject. I especially liked the analogy with the speedbag, which I had installed some time back and found beneficial. I liked the fact that you didn’t dismiss katas as a waste of time as some others do. I do feel there is long term benefit from it. Just like doing algebra doesn’t make you an engineer directly but it gives you a foundation to pursue engineering. I feel the biggest benefit is in understanding how to chain techniques

[@MerricMaker]

The point of forms, I found, was to learn balance alongside the kind of mechanical ideal for a block, kick, etc. After those ideals are learned I was taught to retain some features for the sake of power but adapt them for actual application.

[@sochin7777]

I see kata like this:
One time we were at this seminar training to get out of headlocks and we did a few interesting arm bars. We learnt them in the right-handed and left-handed versions. We didn't write them down or film them, so we learnt to do them without a partner to remember them for later. We practiced the movements at home and at the next training we wanted to do that one arm bar technique again, which we forgot. A friend was at the seminar and he remembered the exact movement that he had been practicing at home. So he showed them to us. We all practiced the movements together and put them into a small dance one after the other.
That is all kata is to me.
Problem is, the dances were handed down from one teacher to the next and the definitions, the connection to the actual defense went missing. That armbar became a lower block, and that throw became a simple turn. That's what we're seeing nowadays, empty dances and missing explanations to the actual movements. (In karate we call this bunkai).
We now we're stuck with bullshit movements, often carried out at the wrong distance with the wrong explanations.
Kata is an essential tool but it needs to have meaning and it is dynamic and changes when necessary (proof of this is, different forms of karate have different kata movements of the same name). What a lot of TMAs are doing is worshipping the ashes and not perserving the fire.
In my humble opinion, the best way to learn from kata is to take small movements and see examples of similar movements in other *practical* forms of martial arts. Iain Abernethy has done a lot of work regarding this for us, and gives meaning to a lot of movements.

[@stevewaters1516]

Your very right I hate to say this but theres alot of bad teachers out n some them are just regurgitating the same bs there teach taught them my first teacher taught me how to get my ass kicked now 20 years later I would tell you that in a single kata theres a 100 techniques that can end a fight fast find the right teacher

[@redcastlebowser4179]

More videos i watch of yours, the more i respect you and your wisdom. I dont always agree with somethings, but at the same time i need to humble my self and look at the other side of the coin.

[@ordeppaco]

Love your videos love your honest explanation, I could say but, but no but - the technique known in karate as hikite, or pulling your back hand back, in shotokan its to the hip in goju-ryu it's almost to the arm pit, is most of the times more simply interpreted as elbow strike to an oponent in your back. It can obviously be other thousand aplications sure, but the simple way is, punch someone in front, and someone came to grab you in the back and you elbowed him. Kata/form has another more selfdefense mentally use - in the words of Miyagi Sensei (real one not mr): "hit not, be not hit". It's to train the mind more than the body. the mindset of never wanting or avoiding fights, is more traditional martial arts than just "I learn this to fight" if you want to learn to fight train fighting, and you'll realize all the negative things about it.
I lesson I usually use is: imagine your are the strongest most deadly man alive, what are you going to do with that power? you need money, are you going to punch your way into a job? you like a girl, are you going to punch her into loving you? Politics screw something, are you going to punch them into making right decisions? your father says no, you are going to punch him into giving you permission?
In life you need so much more than just being good at fighting, original traditional martial arts are about life, not just fighting. that is why they end in "Do!" = way of life

[@Libertariandude]

As a former fighter myself I would say that the only kata that translates into tangible fighting skill are weapons katas. I don't have a huge background in melee weapons but I can say that practicing with them like that definitely helps develop tangible fighting skill my learning the weapons weight and maneuverability. But you also have to spar as well. A good example of this would be Iaido (live katana) and kendo (bamboo).

[@mooselee902]

After individual technique training, you need to be able to combine them. Being able to go from anywhere to anywhere. In the forms I train, they train an idea, a particular way of thinking / doing things. Otherwise you might find you repeat patterns.

[@Mbq-sh6bj]

Ramsey, I'm repeatedly amazed at how you get questions that you could answer with a simple yes / no answer since you do mma and from experience can harshly or rudely distinguish what works from what doesn't with accolades from the comment section given that we're now in an era of uncovering / dispelling snake oil salesman martial arts woo-woo /bullshido.
But instead, in addition to your manners and wit, you also answer the question with insight, almost always delving into the shades of grey where possible (without pandering), making for far more interesting yet still respectful video content.
I never knew the benefits of speed bag training. Sure, I assumed there were levels of skill but not specific levels and relevant benefits.
I will say, however, that like GSP's coach saying GSP doesn't jump rope (why, I don't know), I've often written off speed bag training and still do (even though it's fun) as I don't see a fighter's performance in the ring will diminish without it. (Then again, I don't compete / earn a living fighting.) Just my two cents.
Now get out there and re-shave your head!

[@ttotter100]

Kyokushin was never big into Kata, way more emphasis on fighting. As you said MANY years later now when I do Kata I work them so that after 25 minutes I am drenched with sweat, I have also found that my power has changed a bit as well. I think how you apply yourself is where the benefit lays. Yes you can hit a bag but if you aren't making the bag jump and you're only putting 50% you're not getting out of it what you should. NOT A KATA fan at all but have changed my approach and have learned to get out more only because I am putting a lot more into it One more thought, wouldn't shadow boxing be a close relative to Kata?. Awesome content again Dewy! Keep on Keeping brother,

[@Azami0001]

I like to think of forms as kinda like a mechanics you see in videogames. The forms are the "mechanics" of the character you're playing. And it's up to you on how each of the mechanics is supposed to be used.

[@conmcgrath7502]

I would have said that......., but you already said it! Up to a point, I agree totally.... (my background is kicky punchy until I reasoned there was more...). this could be a thesis, but it should be short and to the point.......
that 'mainstream karate' from the 50's (common in the west) was little more than a military drill, shotokan springs to mind .
That is not to say that there are not some very serious guys doing serious stuff who might choose to transmit their training in a form that does not require language...hence forms/kata; in the rigid syllabus of mainstream martial arts, you learn or struggle with the kata/and or forms; they are not meant to be easy, but they are surely meant to deliver a lesson.

[@BestCBDCenter]

Once again brilliant content. I'm not even kidding you, some day I just gonna have to make a trip to you and hear more of your stories. Absolute diamond channel. Oss.

[@mattbugg4568]

The hand to the hip is a key, it's like a arm bar, the kata have keys in them for future practice. The sun rises in the east and moves to the morning sun, noon time sun and evening sun and set in the west. This is the 6 gates that you find in wing chun and other arts, that's a key. There is literature that the keys unlock, there are several hundred of them. There is different structures like yin yang, good and evil, like the trees, that are keys. These things are all part of the original temple traditions. Some people call it Chinese masonry because they changed it and added to it but the original church has all the same information hidden in it. So there is more than one tree of life westerners also changed it when the original system was lost. It's kinda like that. Yet there is classical arts within the systems that are translated into there own systems of living, there is 1000 of different styles to these two divisions of systems wei jia, nei jia. One means internal the other means external, external would be like boxing or grappling where the end result is beat up your opponent with force. Internal would be beat up your opponent with energy like point striking dim mak, toushu, etc.. a pure external stylist would get the dim mak book at the end of training and throw it out because they wouldn't need it. A internal stylist would get the book at the 2nd level of there training and use it till the end of there training because it would evolve into chi gong. So there in part is the difference in the two systems that are being trained. Both are martial arts both have the same stuff in them but the training is of different orders, one is trying to master the human condition the other is training the spritual condition. Most present day arts are a combination of the two because they are trying to build body mind and sprit to obtain a fighter, but the older text were very specific to either side. So your question about is kata useful well it depends on what you want to do with it and if you are studying the correct one. If I want to smash someone to a pulp and I'm practicing chi gong probably isn't going to happen very fast, where if I want to learn the order of the sun and moon acupuncture to attack a guy and I'm practicing western boxing it's probably not going to happen very quick. So the end result is common core but the training is different, what is happening now in a lot of martial arts is the loss of foundational skills translated to fighting a lot of older guys are putting out information that wasn't public knoledge because it is in jeperdy of being lost. The reason why is people's ideas of training has changed and if they can't be the king of the cage in 18 months it's not effective truth is that's only 3 training blogs, so in traditional training you would learn 3 skills in 18 months, 6 months each. So if you were training pa kua for example you would learn simple circle walk, fish step, and Pai pu step and you didn't even finish the footwork so a normal person in today's world would be like what's the use of this I've been doing it for 18 months and I haven't even learned the footwork but the truth is that in 4 years you might get through the system once then the real training starts, so that's about what I'm trying to say is happening with forms I do a form it's the only video on my feed, I know 3 different systems that it directly translates into, it takes 5 seconds or so to do the form, about 3, 12 hour days to do the applications, I have done the form over 10,000 times and applications a couple 1000.. I've been doing that same form for 18 years, and yeah I never stop learning something new about it, or adding parts or doing new training blogs to add to it. So what is a form? It's a miniature system.

[@quach8quach907]

I love the concept of kata. I think it is used in every art.
Typing. A quick kata: The quick red fox jumps over the lazy brown dog. I just typed every letter of the alphabet with a quick kata.
Shakespearean plays. They are acting katas. Great actors were Shakespearean actors.
I don't know anything about music: études.
Ballets are katas.
Bodybuilding is all katas.
Storytelling: The Bible. Every television writers read the Bible as the model for telling stories.
Wrestling (WWE) is all katas.
Chess books are katas.
Going back to acting. Acting is kata. The Rocky movies. We quote a lot of stuffs from the Rocky movies because they are so correct. The Rocky movies themselves are katas . . . for life.

[@instructorlex8273]

This is a nicely done video with good quality thoughts.
I’ll speak from experience. I teach that forms are a visual library of the forms style. I believe that a movement done in forms is just a representation of a particular move and not usually the exact movement. Part of the reason is many forms have been modified to look better, which changes the actual application.
I personally noticed a big difference in the way I throw my rear leg roundhouse/side kicks after years of practicing a form called “bassai dae” because the kick thrown is from a much different position then my fighting stance in which I always Theo these kicks. They benefit me and enhance my ability to fight indirectly, and not really directly in many cases.
Lastly, they aren’t just for fighting. I’m 41, I don’t intend to fight and they offer a great way to stay in shape without some of the same torque and free movements that hurt my back, my knee and so on. They are great for health, which is not a direct fighting enhancement but is overall beneficial to the person or fighter.
Nice video and thought. Thanks.

[@sandsmine]

in 89 I took my first tai known do lesson. chon gi tong I think was the first pattern. it is simple. but could I remember it all. it was difficult. the teacher said don't worry, with each new kata and more complicated you will find it easier and easier. and he was right. we were not only triaining our physical selves but our brains to corriogrhapy. take bjj for instance the guy whos brain can retain techniques will be the better fighter. katas are all to do with picking up and keeping.

[@Veggietalesfan32]

Kata/forms were developed for a time before video and photographs, where each movement of a fighting style had to be condensed to be easier to teach by rote.

[@starhairthetutor3765]

Great insights, sir.

[@davidcdun8896]

Now, get out there and train! 🤣 Totally Awesome!

[@robadams2274]

I grew up learning karate in a TMA dojo. After stretching, we would usually work on a technique or two, and then spend the remainder of our time practicing/learning kata. We would only spar around once every couple weeks unless there was a tournament coming up. This was in the mid 90's just prior to the UFC becoming popular. I drilled those damn kata so much that even today, I still remember them, despite having not practiced a damn kata in over 15 years. IMO, there is some benefit to be gained from practicing kata, so it does get some undeserved flack, but there was a definite overemphasis on the kata back in my karate days. While kata will not teach you to fight, and some of the imaginary situations our kata was based on were utterly ridiculous, you are still training martial arts. You are still throwing your kicks and punches, still drilling techniques. My straight punch is still technically sound mostly because I spent hours throwing punches at the air as a kid praciticing kata.

[@Guagex]

At the dojo I go to. Hanshi test us on application. Every Technique or chain of Technique has to have 10 applications a piece.
As a brown belt in Isshinryu. I am also expected to be able to practice all of my Kata with correct tempo, technique speed and power. And I am push to be able to perform all of my Kata back to back. (8 empty) 4 weapons.) Back to back without rest. This is an endurance and stamina test.

[@jimmyalderson1639]

Kata i think is quite important. Sparring is more so, but kata and solo practice can be incredibly valuable.
For example, at one of my judo dojos we do a lot of solitary foot sweep practice, and i gauarantee that if i had not done that solompractice (which is effectively kata) i would not be able to perform foot sweeps with the accuracy, finess and cleanliness as i can now. I still have a great ways to go, but the fact that when we do joint partner foot aweep drills and i'm not fumb,ing around trying to remember which foot goes where is significant enough. You can throw someone really high and really hard with a foot sweep, and by drilling it over and over again, even without a partner, i went from being hardly able to lift the foot to being able to sweep people in randori. And prior to the kata practice i couldn't even get a good footsweep with a cooperating partner.
If kata were useless as many people aspouse (not gonna say names, BJJ guys) then samurai and other warriors who foguht for a living wouldn't train by using them.
Some great judoka even say that such forms as the ju no kata should be taught before any actual judo techniques. Sort of like a calculus introduction course, before you start doing implicit differentiation.
But of course a student who spends five sessions drilling kata might catch up rapidly and over take a student who spent those five weeks doing sparring (that is to say that kata may accelerate your rate of growth, once you begin sparring, by giving you more potential to convert); a person who did 5 sessions of kata will not defeat a person who's done even one session of sparring.
It's like if you lift an object in the air, you've given it more gravitational potential energy than an object on the floor. When you start rolling the lower object down a hill it will gain more kinetic energy. But if you drop the higher ball it will gain more kinetic energy faster.
By lifting the object up you have not increased its energy, but you have increased the aountof energy it could have.
Likewise teaching a person kata does not allow them to win fights, but it gives them a greater potential to learn how
But of course let it not be mistaken that sparring is of much greater importance.

[@MrHFam-st4ni]

We learn kata where I do TMA, and we always do our forms and then our teacher links it to fighting techniques... which was extremely helpful because our muslce memory just made us do kata and bang you got a technique. Still to this day, I still notice bits of kata I did in the past when I do sparring and even once in a real fight. Very cool to see it all come together. Now I'm not smart enough to interpret kata for throwing or grappling but I've been able to use it for some great striking combos

[@shankarsatheesan6846]

One always has to practice it with application all the time. Perhaps you should check out Hanshi Patrick McCarthy's HAPV theory, it explains the why and how of katas very well, as well as how to practice them.

[@toraguchitoraguchi9154]

Kata is a glossary of techniques - it's a visual and physical title page of a system. Masters passed down Kata so that the next generation don't forget the existence of certain techniques because nobody trains the whole array of techniques all the time (effective fighting requires the combination of only about 3 to 5 techniques very well practised).
Practising Kata reminds you these techniques exist but HOW do you use them in a fight is entirely a different question. In fact it's like asking whether press ups and crunches teach you how to fight....they don't but they boost your abilities.
In Old Karate, Kata features about 10% of the syllabus...but in modern sports karate it is about 50% of the syllabus. In old karate, A student learns about 3 Kata in about 8 years (between 12 to 20 years old then they get a job and graduate)...only the senior students who become teachers learn 8 or 9 kata after 20 years. So, on everage they learn 1 kata every 1.5 to 2 years...what do they do the rest of the time ? They trained their bodies, they train basic techniques in the kata and they explored combinations and applications.
The over focus on Kata by modern teachers (one new kata every 3 months) is ridiculous.

[@nigellegall755]

Kata are also to learn body control, the more parts of the body (internals) you can control the better your technique. This is why many MMA fighters with no Kata TMA technique tend to have poor technique and weak strikes.

[@HansDavidian]

Jesse Enkamp of The Karate Nerd channel has a good video about translating kata into combative mode.

[@andrewtruebody2791]

Mike Tyson had no kata, but trained certain boxing drills which he used in his sparring that were very effective. Fighting drills against a partner is the quickest way to become a good fighter.

[@wieschermannstephan3575]

Great video like every time. 😎😎

[@googleisacruelmistress1910]

I've always thought of kata to fighting being as expansion packs in tabletop games, you can get them if you have the base game and they will probably give you something new that you might like and find cool but if you don't have the base game you could own all the expansion packs and they'd still be nothing but a bunch of separate peaces that kind of remind you of the game but aren't really anything by themselves...
of course if we're talking about fighting it could turn out you are some freaky genius and it could turn out that you already "have the game" and that it only has a couple pieces missing but I wouldn't put much stock in that being the case

[@jasonlindquist1460]

I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks. I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times. -- Bruce Lee
Kata is a way to practice movements over and over and over. It's something you can do without a training partner or without any tools or equipment. Doing only kata is a mistake, but having kata as one part of your training is a necessity.

[@threethrushes]

I fear not the comment which is repeated on 10,000 TH-cam videos. I fear the comment that is repeated 10,000 times on the same video. -- Bruce Eel.

[@dersuddeutschesumpf5444]

@@threethrushes killed it

[@bertrandronge9019]

If you understand how your kata translate into a fight. But since most people doing kata don't get half of it...

[@adhdmed]

When I started karate only doing Kata for a month. I was attacked on the street by 2 guys. In self defence, It came naturally and I beat them up. Kata is good muscle memory.

[@BluntInnit]

Interesting points yet you missed the more obvious comparison in boxing to forms which is shadow boxing.
Every boxer will tell you that shadow boxing is crucial part of training, it is also how you practice at home without the need for equipment.
This is the main purpose of forms/kata.
It is also an index of techniques to help prevent you from completely forgetting some key techniques as if left alone everyone will naturally focus on their favorite technique when it is the others that require extra attention.
You will not learn a technique or sequence by practicing a form however if you are also going through applications and drilling each technique individually, then when practicing a form you are always imagining the opponent and application, as you do with shadow boxing.
So if you think of a form as more like a content then actually learning each part individually is the actually text in a chapter of a book.
The other thing that confused me is the idea that anyone that wants to be able to defend themselves wouldn't have to dedicate years before the correct response, distance, timing and technique have been brainwashed to come out as a reaction in a dangerous situation. Anyone that thinks they can watch a couple of videos on youtube or just go to a few classes is fooling themselves.
Also not all systems always pull the arm back but an additional reason which is very useful is to think what happens to your spine when your elbow is pulled back? By spending a lot of time with your elbows back you actually train good posture. So though it doesn't pretend to be a fighting guard as that is not the point of a form, it is a training aid, and techniques are often done differently to emphasis the principle of the technique. So techniques are exaggerated in order to establish in the student's mind the important principles of the technique, not always combat application.
So forms are often performed in a training stance or with exaggerated footwork to train a certain principle or philosophy and often are broken down into sections with each section focusing on a specific aspect or strategy.
Martial arts are not just a series of moves each style has it's own game plan, the forms teaches that strategy to the student subliminally, as should every single drill they practice or what they have learned will not be effective as is just moves without any plan of how to use and apply them to a situation.
So I would say that forms are an incredibly useful part of any training, but are only a part and should also only be a part of solo practice, though very useful to practice daily and very beneficial especially if you only go to 1 class a week, though for any real progress in any discipline should do a bare minimum of two 2-3 hour classes a week on top of at least daily solo practice even if just stretching and going through forms, will still be of benefit.

[@Mbq-sh6bj]

I did forms-based martial arts for years.
I also did high school musicals and dance classes.
For both activities, it felt good to grasp a series of movements in sequence, polish them, and get a good sweat going.
When it was time to perform (for an exam / show), I was ready.
But if I had to fight, I was pretty much equally prepared as if I'd done no training at all, for the most part. Maybe from forms' training I learned how to throw a proper punch and front kick... but not how to time and land one.
But it made me feel good and was a healthy past time.

[@buddylove6718]

Kata open new neuro pathways in the brain that makes the body become familiar with the moves. It also creates muscle memory and makes the body react in a coordinated way when you need to fight.

[@CrowdPleeza]

I don't think martial arts katas and forms can do those things as well as shadowboxing in boxing.
Katas don't mimic the body movements of an actual fight. When boxers shadowbox they are mimicking the overall body movements of an actual fight. This is better for that muscle memory and enhancing technique.
Karate and Kung fu people need to practice their own version of shadowboxing along with their traditional forms and katas.

[@shounaksanyal5875]

Hello sir, firstly I wanna say that I'm a big fan of yours. Really love how you bring out the truth. My question However is that often I think you've said that martial artists are kinda like nerds engrossed in their own world, and that a self defense situation is a lot different than martial arts, but it doesn't mean that a bjj guy or any other martial arts practitioner couldn't stand in a one vs one street fight with some random guy. Don't know but somehow I felt as if you were trying to say that all that we're doing is just fun and not effective in real life. I may be wrong but anyways will wait for your answer. I'm practicing taekwondo by the way.
Respect and love from India

[@chimyshark]

it definitely takes years, but it does develop reflexes. sparring and fight exp is still better, but doing the forms over and over allowed some of the moves to just "come out" due to sheer muscle memory.

[@joseq.7166]

I once read regarding the matter of the kata, that some of fighting application, which could be considered deadly somehow, can't be fit in modern society, hence it has been preserved within the kata, for long time I have been wondering of the actual use of the kata, that's one explanation it appeals,

[@niklash3934]

So my kyukoshin teacher always explains it like this. First we gonna do kata which is "technique" in Japanese. So kata is like fine art in block letters. And afterwards we applicate it. So we go in fighting stance and train with partners. He revers that part of training to the actual handwriting.