Three Ways Alfa’s 156 GTA is BETTER Than BMW E46 M3!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 พ.ย. 2024
- The BMW E46 M3 was acknowledged as the best sporting saloon of its time, while the Alfa GTA suffered from known flaws, but is it possible that now the Alfa might have the upper hand?
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Thanks for having the Alfa on Jack, and thanks everyone for the positive comments on my 156 :)
The alfa is a credit to you👍
Had the pleasure of driving a GTA when they came out,it was red in colour and a saloon.I absolutely loved it the power and the way it drove,to this day it's one of my favourite cars,
Your car is beautiful it's a credit to you.
Beautiful cars, 156s. I love the saloon but I actually think they look better as a wagon!
Very lucky man , Alfa for me every time
Complimenti 🙌🏻 on your GTA, sir! Keep it safe and motor on! Way better than that Bim3mer 😅 especially with that awful SMG 😂
I miss my busso so much. It was only a 2.5 24v, but the sound, drama and fun was unbeatable for it's money
The best motor with the 1.8. 👍
@@melaniezimmermann-jv7th The best motor is 2.5 Busso, inline 4 is peasant engine
I also had the 2.5, or be it two of them, one unfortunately was written off by a transit van. It's difficult to tell the difference sound wise between the 2.5 and the 3.2. I also had a 2.0 T Spark, not even in the same league, all three were saloons.
What happened to it i.e. why did you replace it?
@@htimsid...I was just an idiot. One owner, all maintenance work was done by Ferrari Hannover. Silver Limo from 98, red leather, wooden Steeringwheel and shifter knob. After two years without any problems, the waterpump got a little leaky. That's a no go for the Tüv-inspection. That means new timingbelt and waterpump. And that means, the engine has to come out. At that time, I couldn't afford it. I bought it for cheap ( 850,-€ ) and sold it even cheaper ( 350,-€ ). My youngest daughter ( 9y ) was in tears, because she loved it so much.That's 8 years ago and today I know what a huge mistake that was
Damn I miss my 156! My friends all laughed and told me I'd bought a money pit when I got it but it gave me over 240 thousand km of trouble free service for half the price of an equivalent BMW. Great cars!
I think as long as the belt is changed every 60,000 km you're good to go.
I did over 150k miles in a 75 TS once. No reliability issues. They're tough
@@richardcarter1000 75 special car
Compare this to all the issues that BMW and Audi had 😂 no chance driving that much without issues.
Why do you think germans made everyone belive Alfas are crap? Thay were in fear Alfa wil overcome tham, and it would if media would not make Alfa look like crap i am tired of people speaking shit of Alfa, becaus its nothing like it in reality, in reality Alfa is the charmiest car you can get and is not about the cars realyability is about the previus owner..
Drove a manual E46 M3 for 9 years & 138k miles back in the day. They are bloody brilliant.
I drove 50k miles in my e46, Croft race circuit, Knockhill and Nurburgring as well. WIth a few mods I thought it was tremendous.
A 330 clubsport v alfa might be a good compassion. More similar on price now also.
I guess the goal of this comparison was also that despite the price difference, the Alfa can be better than an M3 in multiple areas
Anyone else feel that the flaws of Alfas always get somewhat exaggerated in reviews? No car is perfect in all its aspects, as is clear from this comparison, yet BMW only rarely gets criticized for it. Very enjoyable review anyway, thanks Jack!
It is precisely on the opposite end that Alfa's flaws such as FWD, poor interior quality, and failure rate are forcefully excused. Alfa's are much worse than one might think from the posts of their fans
@@prawdziwyateista11lat50 how many models did you drive/own? I do not doubt your points, but without facts, same pub talk on both ends :)
I own a 156 GTA and I’ve had my fair share of BMW’s. I wouldn’t say an Alfa is cheap on quality in any way to be honest.. the interior on my GTA is lovely and nothing about it feels cheap.
I’ve also covered around 12K miles in 10 months with only the alternator letting me down. 🙌🏼
Bmw buy reviewers thats why
Some people dislike FWDs. And for some of them, they like it when a Honda or hot hatch is FWD. Hypocrites can't win an argument
I had a similar ish scenario back in the late 90's when I owned an E34 M5 along with an Alfa 75 V6. I respected the M5 greatly and it was truly superb, but I didn't love it. The tatty unreliable Alfa on the other hand always made me smile more. ❤️
Same situation Audi and a 156. 2 different characters. You can guess which one made me smile.
In 2006, after owning a 1.0 Micra for 2 years, at 21 I bought an immaculate 2001 156 1.6 Twin Spark, for £6,500. I could afford it because Alfas depreciated so heavily back then. At the time the GTA was my dream car and I loved the BTCC. I owned the 156 for 3 years and drove it every day on my 76 mile round trip commute, putting 45k miles on it and driving it SO hard everywhere I went. It proved very reliable. I then sold it to my Dad's colleague, who was after a car for his daily commute (and I was looking to buy an import MX5, which I did). He was an RSM in the SAS, and after buying the car from me, he drove me the 25 miles back home to my house and gave me some sound life advice, on the way. A very memorable drive home. I may change my e82 125i for a GTA, after watching this video!
As I live in Hong Kong now and don't need a car, all I can say is that is still miss my Alfa. That's why I am here and watch these videos. I suspect that most Alfisti think the same as me: I couldn't have cared less if another car was compared and assessed as the better one. If you want an Alfa, you get an Alfa. It is connected to your heart and soul. Just like a beautiful and temperamental woman with all her faults. But she is the one keeping you awake at night! Only Alfisti will understand that. 😃
Well said
I've been thinking the same thing since I got my driving license and bought a super exploited GTj in 1983. Since then only Alfa.
Oh, I still got that one!
perfetto!
agreed, i say same to everyone
Totally agree.
Couldn't put it better pal. I recently saw a 3.2 V6 GT for sale, and just went and bought it. Called the wife on the way and told her I'm getting a hobby car. There and then, just needed it!
All I'm gonna say is that my '02 156 GTA is my daily driver, has done 266,000km including 45,000km in two years I've had it. And it's my third V6 156. (BTW - with decent coilovers like mine, the GTA doesn't float and has phenomenal road holding capability).
What shock absorbers and spring package did you fit to your GTA?
@@ameliopompeo5722 I have KV1s on mine. These absolutely fixed the floatiness over undulations. The car is slightly worse in town, on our more than crap UK roads, but it's a worthwhile compromise imv
@@ameliopompeo5722 I've got
Zeatek Azzurro Z9 adjustable coilovers. They are no longer available, custom designed for the Gta in Denmark, very similar to KW.
I also daily my 156GTA. About 12k miles covered in the last 10 months and it’s been amazing to drive.
@@Avoid467 Apart from anything else I just get a kick when I scare the bejeezus out of people when I start her up in the office basement car park.
Great comparison! Have to be the 156 for me. When I see an E46 M3, I think "oh hey thats cool!"... When I see any Alfa GTA, I want to do a backflip with joy 🤣
This reminds me of two cars my dad had when I was a kid. A 1994 Lotus Elan, and a 2003 Porsche Boxter. The Porsche was better in every way! Better built, faster, more reliable etc... the Lotus was 10 times as crap, but 100 times as cool to us 😅
Every drive was an occasion, it rattled and squeaked and banged, the roof leaked, the fit and finish wasn't great. But the noise! And the way it drove! It had a little dump valve fitted aftermarket, so it made a really loud "psssshhhh" noise between every gear change. I adored that car, a defining moment for me as a very young car enthusiast 😁
PS The Alfa interior is just beautiful for me. Especially at night lit up in orange...
Jack is always the kid in the candy shop. Sometimes, the cat that ate the canary. Always articulate, expressive, enthusiastic, entertaining, AND ACCURATE.
thank you Adrian!! have a great weekend!
Knows his cars, and speaks the truth!
Would love your job Jack.. 😂
Always had a soft spot for a 156, I’d be happy with any of the petrol versions
I was surprised just how good a 1.8 twinspark loan car was when my GTA was in the garage. Cracking little saloon with a great exhaust note.
the diesels sure don't lag behind in handling and reliability
sound and refinement are a VERY different matter though
I worked at a BMW dealer when the e46 came out, also when the e39 m5 came out, and the 320hp m roadster/coupe, they where all a huge step in performance from the previous generation in the USA, they were all great but the m5 and 320hp m coupe were the most memorably exciting on the street, the m coupe felt crazy fast.
Took my GT 3.2 V6 to a weekend away with a group of mates recently. Most of them car nuts, they all LOVED the GT. Recently did the exhaust upgrade and the noise ripping it through the country roads was just incredible. Such a fun car to have in the garage as an alternative to my daily which is an F30 335i.
The E46 is simply timeless. What a machine.
An alfa is love and passion yes they have flaws but nothing else gives you a big smile on your face like an alfa romeo there's more to life than being efficient
Great vid as always, but a little unfair perhaps. Would a 330i Sport not be a better comparison? I don't remember the GTA being marketed or reviewed at the time as a road weapon but rather more aimed at a certain sort of company car driver (think Mondeo ST). I may be wrong of course. I do realise you drive what you can so it's not a criticism, but perhaps these would be better presented as two short standalone vids rather than a comparison. Keep up the great work.
You're not wrong. The GTA was in no way marketed as an M3 competitor.
PERFECT video for me. Probably my two favorite cars, when not considering crazy exotics. I somehow am more in love with the 156, though. And I kind of prefer the facelift and 2.5 liter version, which i have
Great comparison, and very fair 👏
Having owned both, the M3 just wasn't my kind of car. Sure it had excellent handling and an iconic engine, but the power delivery had a on/off kind of feel and the steering feel was lacking. In contrast, the GTA really rewards in everyday driving with it's sharp, pointy steering and the warm-hearted Busso rumbling under the bonnet. I sold the M3 after just 9 months, I still own the GTA 9 years later.
The m3 has more soul and is more fun to drive. Alfa loses with its FWD
I love Alfa but because of the RWD I prefer the M3. They look realistically it's a better car. Both give a ton of pleasure.
Busso Alfa Romeo is in a league of its own.
BMW M3 is competition for Mercedes and Audi, not for Alfa Romeo, Alfa Romeo is to be loved, to turn around when you get out of the car
E46 M3 - legendary car, peak BMW.
The busso noise is to die for ....just bought a 3.2 alfa gt with a loud wizard exhaust and its epic.always wanted the 156 gta and on my bucket list especially now I have the gt
Thanks for having us Jack. Really was a great day out. Joe’s Alfa is a lovely bit of kit.
The thing with the GTA is it's not really a GTA in the truest sense, its heavier than a standard 156. With that said though it's complete theatre. Considering the design of the Busso was started at the end of the 60s and it ran production until 2005 is a testament to how much it was and still loved today. Sure the M3 is a superior car but I think i'd have more satisfaction in the 156
The 156 GTA looks stunning in Grigio Sterling.
I loved both my 75 V6 and my 156 Selespeed ❤❤
I think we used to call them ''Sillyspeed''...
The Alfa Romeo 156 Design still stands the test of time and still looks incredibly fresh and timeless! testament to the genius of Walter de Silva. The predecessor the Alfa Romeo 155 designed by Ercole Spada is also a masterpiece of design who also designed the BMW E32 & E34.
Agree in the Alfa 156, however the Alfa 155 is somewhat contrived as it displays a considerable amount of Fiat Tempra DNA.
Compare a Tempra with a wide body 155 and you'll see that only the architecture is similar. Look & Feel is radically different.
I agree on the 155. It is just stunning, I fell in love with when I first saw one in 1993 and I still love them. Yes, there are constraints in using the Tempra structure, but Ercole Spada did a brillant job. I removed the sportpack spoiler from my 155 Super and the proportions now look fine.
@MLC Yes. 155 usually commands loyalty from past owners. Well-kept secret!
for the record..the 155 exterior is definitely mostly Ercole Spada’s work.The 156 exterior case is not exactly the same.some other people,some also very well known,had a significant positive influence on the design.Of course magazine coverage of the time does not tell the inside story.The GTA versions,exterior, interior and wonderful wheels,were designed after De Silva’s time in Alfa.
I keep hearing people say these things about the E46s gearchange and steering. All I can say is that my E46, yes it's a 330cd, but the steering constantly talks to me, it has loads of feel, the gear change is long throw, but it's smooth and it is not notchy at all.
However, I have had a total suspension refresh, with eibach springs and bilsteins. And the gearbox has been serviced and I've had the suspension geometry properly and fully set up.
Throw in a short shift kit and just shy of 300bhp and I love it, despite it being diesel..
The M3 was in a class above the GTA, if not two classes above. There was quite a cost difference between the two. You could pick up a nice GTA - second hand dealer stock, in 2004 for about £20K. You'd have needed double (and then some) for an E46 M3.
i loved my 156. The smaller engined cars are still wonderful and possibly have a weight (overall/distribution) advantage - and possibly even better steering/handling again. There are still bargains to be found with the Twin Spark... Though you are not going to pick up a minter for 800 quid like I did twelve or so years ago..
PS And they still feel quick enough for me.
Alfa Romeo 156. The best handling FWD car ever made. Multilink rear suspension. Double Wishbone front suspension. Aluminium in construction. Dominated touring car racing in its time whilst beating BMW. Facts. Of the 156's, the 2.0 TS handled the best.
quick note: the rear suspension on the 156 is mcpherson strut, not multilink.
multilink was on the 166 and GT, though the 156's rear suspension was an evolution of the 155 GTA's (yes, I did write that correctly, its a weird ultra-rare 4wd racing special), which itself is based off of the one in the lancia delta integrale.
the handling on these alfas is great though, they really do feel like they just hook into a corner, almost like it's a toy car tied to a pole with some rope
Alfa every time for me. That V6 is one of the greatest engines ever. Had one in an 80s GTV6 for a few years. Wonderful.
As the current owner of an E30 3 series BMW and an previous owner of an Alfa Romeo 156 2.0 TS: I skipped right past the E46 M3 review and went straight for the 156 GTA part :)
We ran a 156GTA SW & an e36 M3 Evo together for a few years. They were both brilliant fun to drive, in different ways - the M3 Germanic efficiency, slightly anonymous & does whatever asked of it, ace at long cruises or A/B roads, playful when needed ; the GTA was all drama, music & looks, with some fun drives on certain roads, but some just had to be avoided - & it made up for 10 years of great reliable Alfas by being a bit of a hangar queen. Which was best? Well, the M3 is still here, but the Alfa went to someone prepared to pay too much for it, when it finally left me stranded once too often.
the simple thing that the M3 is RWD just makes it better for me. i still love an Alfa, but there are some hard points which i can't disregard.
I sometimes wonder what could have been if Alfa had ended up being owned by BMW rather than Fiat.
@@RichardABW It would've been it's main rival, I think. The beauty of Alfa with chassis tuning of BMW.. 😍
I think the Alfa brand 'wants' to be an Italian BMW. Would suit it.@@mistreku
@@RichardABW Historically it is the other way round, Richard. Alfa 105 series of 1960s was overtaken by BMW in the mid 70s onwards. But the sporting daily driver concept was the same
Alfa 156 is a legend in touring car racing. BMW had no chance years in row while Alfa had a factory team,just like with the 155.
I remember that those Alfas had less space in estate form than as a saloon. Lovely things, even the 1.6 was great
Definitely one of the best looking wagons ever made. My alfa red 156 2.0jts sportwagon is a beautiful thing to behold.
How so? I can def tell you as a sportwagon owner that id have no chance fitting the stuff I do in it in a sedan/saloon version as its a small boot and not even the seats drop
I had an E46 M3 in Hong Kong for 5 years. Loved it... it was really really good.
nice review mate, im 47 had many cars over my life to date company and private but i now own a BMW 330ci msport topaz blue 2006 and its the best cat i have ever had, I've had it since 2017 had to spend some money due to age and previous owners not looking after it (prob about the same as the car at the time about 5k) but now finally mechanically mint just need some paint , car tax is terrible at just under £600 a year lol
Id definitely take the 156 over the me especially in estate guise , in a sucker for a cool estate car 😀.... Excellent stuff as always Jack buddy 👍
It is a cool thing dude.. ashamed to say I’d probably take the M3 though. Alfa great for a day.. not so sure longer term
The Alfa is definitely worse built, but to drive and the sound it makes is definitely a nicer experience, the m3 is just an incredibly well built car, but has no soul, which is why you buy a classic, to get that old school soul experience that modern cars just don’t offer. So as a classic the Alfa is definitely better.
Dedication and down-to-earth approach make you a favorite. Congrats!
Bot
How?
@@Calislav96 It's interesting how they always manage to evade the youtube censorbot, but I keep having my comments removed :/
Alfas will always have the looks and the spirit - and look at those seats in the Alfa.
Have that over the BMW any day. Gorgeous silver and suits the wagon perfectly.
Thank you for this video! Actually a great comparison, given that BMW and Alfa Romeo have always been rivals both in the performance car market and in motorsport.
As voted by the 'experts' the overall looks of the Alfa 156 did trump the E46 BMW. In 1998, an international jury of 56 journalists (40 of whom voted for the 156) representing 21 countries awarded the Alfa 156 the European Car of the Year award. It went on to win more accolades in various other countries - totalling some 35. However, I concede that some of the Alfa 156 GTA add-ons - e.g. front spoiler, are not as well integrated as they could have been.
The 2.5 V6 engine, as fitted to the Alfa 156 was awarded with the International Engine of the Year award in 2000. It was an engine designed in the late 1960s, planned for introduction in the early 1970's but shelved due to the 1973 fuel crisis - so was an old design when the Alfa 156 was introduced.
In 3.2 litre guise, the engine produces signifcantly less power than the BMW 3.2 - however it's a far less developed engine which is equipped with very modest camshafts. The Alfa tuning expert, Jim Kartalamakis wrote: "The cam profiles for the 24V 3-litre engine is as mild as they come. One can almost think the factory deliberately suppressed power output of these engines by severely choking breathing potential". Jim goes on to say: "A different profile is used in the 3.2 litre engines but does not pretend to have a serious high-performance aspirations either". I supsect the Alfa engineers opted for an engine that focused on better fuel economy - which is a very important consideration (with an emphasis on 'very important') in the Italian car market.
The Eibach springs fitted to the Alfa GTA lower the car by circa 50mm. It does provide the car with a more 'sporting look', which some prefer, however it does little to improve the handling performance of the car whilst at the same time degrading the ride thereby creating a less desirable 'crashy' suspension system. Needless to say, the fitment of Bilstein or Koni adjustable dampers does assist with the overall handling/ride of the car.
I think that's a load of rubbish about the cam profiles, the engines make comparable power to other manufacturers. They make the same power as non M cars, it's just every engine looks pathetic in comparison to the S54 it's one of the best NA engines ever put in a road car.
Yeah... only the 3.2L drinks fuel like a V8! It sounds great... but so does a V8 (which has proper performance too). The power they got out of these late Bussos is almost embarrassingly low for the capacity.
@@skilgour44 What 240bhp, that's respectable bhp per litre, what are you comparing it to a Honda, a turbo engine?
@@user-ue6iv2rd1n the M3, the NSX etc. Hell, even a Maxima puts out about the same power.
@@user-ue6iv2rd1n Jim Kartalamakis is a very respected Alfa expert and has authored two books on tuning Alfa engines - one on the twin cam four and the other on the Busso V6. The said publications include considerable detail of the camshafts used by the OEM, non-OEM companies such as Kent Cams, Catcams, Colombo & Bariani and cam profiles that he has developed. Based on your comments, I can only conclude that you have a great understanding of the Alfa Busso V6 along with camshafts used in the aforesaid engine - which includes cam details such as: lift, duration, duration at 50 thou, ramp accleration and lobe centres.
The E46 M3 (343 hp) is definitely in a different league to the Alfa 156 GTA (250 hp) as the engine was equipped with variable valve timing i.e. VANOS. The more obvious competitor to the Alfa GTA was the E46 330 which offered 'similar' performance (228 hp) and was similarly priced - circa AUS $90k - when introduced in Australia. The M3 E46 was a whopping $50k (55%) over the aforesaid - so a different segment to the Alfa 156 GTA. In Australia the new car price of a E46 M3 was approaching that of the 911 996 - so a very modest number of cars were sold when it was newly introduced into Australia.
Alfa for me I loved my 156 sportwagen in light metallic blue
There isn’t any comparison, the GTA Any day of the week !
You have a bmw outside every chip shop in the U.K.
Not e46 m3 you don’t. No competition. Hence all drivers rave about the m3
*a BMW outside every chip shop....not an e46 M3 buddy. They're quite rare.
Yeah, right! 🙄
320d, maybe.
Especially FWD or shoddy interior quality in Alfa make it so special. And the M3 is no ordinary e46 by the way, there are a lot of 156s too although most have long since fallen apart.
few notes as a heavily biased 156 owner (sadly not a 3.2, but that little JTD has been reliable as a bunker in a mild breeze, and the SP1 makes it look stunning):
-the floatiness of the suspension takes a little getting used to, but by no means takes away from the driving experience, it rolls around, it pitches and heaves, but that lets the suspension do what it was designed to (the rear end especially works best if the car is allowed to roll, and heavily reduces understeer), it also allows the car to tell you exactly what's going on in yet another way, without making you need a visit to the chiropractor any time you take it for a drive.
-as with any alfa deserving of the badge, its got personality, which makes it quite divisive
-the looks, good lord the looks, the only place on the car that you can look and not have something to enjoy is the inside of the boot, the outside is beautiful, the interior welcomes the driver as if urging you to drive, but doesn't let the passengers down at all, if someone will have to look at it for a bit, then someone made it pleasant to look at, simple as.
-it honestly quite comfortable, it can definitely get crashy over large cracks and potholes if you're alone, but on long trips all seats are a nice place to be.
-the steering is wonderful, its quick enough that you rarely have to take your hands off, its got just the right amount of weight to be relaxing but still provide confidence, shame about the truly awful turning radius, which certainly isn't better in the GTAs.
-even in a lowly JTD the handling is terrific, the back end will come out if you go fast and smooth into a corner off the throttle or dragging the brakes a little, and if it gets hairy you just put your foot down and ride it out, I'm sure this is different on anything beyond a 2.0TS but even understeer can often be mitigated with the throttle quite often, at which point it absolutely hooks, if you do things right it dances like a ballerina and is stable as a mountain.
all this to say, if given the keys to the two, I'd drive both of them and have an absolute blast either way!
I owned both back in the day and no way was there a 90bhp difference between them, for once I think the Italians understated the power output. I had several GTAs, my favourite was a Gabbiano Blue Sportwagon that I drove from the UK to Sicily and back, awesome cars. Had a couple of manual M3s and the box was hard work, fantastic engine but the Busso sounded way better than the tinny sounding E46.
Very articulate man, great content.
On any rational comparison, the BMW will always come out ahead of the Alfa, but nobody buys an Alfa with their head. Once you've experienced the Alfa V6, as I did in an early reiteration in the GTV6 2.5, there's no going back. It was only producing 160 bhp back then, so I would think 250 bhp would be plenty enough to enjoy on today's roads.
Those Alfa wheels are glorious 👌😚
Hello Jack, another great review that was a pleasure to view. But, you really made me miss my 2005 BMW E46 M-Sport 6-speed. What a pleasure to own and drive and the quality was superb throughout. I was very surprised about your comments on the M3 steering. Mine was the total opposite. It was fantastic in every way. On the highway it would track perfectly true and give feedback on what the tires were doing on the road. Mine was very low mileage and maybe that made a difference. The short-throw shifter was another great pleasure. I wish I could buy it back again . I look forward to your next presentation. Thanks.
I can’t say I have ever driven a M3 or a GTA. However, I owned a JTS 2.0 156 Sportwagon and totally loved that car. I agree the GTA bodykit doesn’t actually add to the 156’s design and in standard trim it actually looks better. What is not to like re the Busso V6, it’s an engine with soul. For me, the build quality, steering and ride in the 156 was totally fine. As much as a M3 would be nice, out here in Oz they are too expensive and as such a manual E46 330 coupe would be a better compromise.
I agree the E46 330 and Alfa 156 offered similar performance and were similarly priced - circa AUS $90k - when introduced in Australia. The M3 E46 was a whopping $50k over the aforesaid - so a different league to the Alfa 156 GTA.
Alfa has more soul and passion in it than any playboy bmw
Alfa has as much soul as a Fiat. Next to the M3, it's a boring car.
@@prawdziwyateista11lat50 typical response from a bmw owner
Agree with your verdict. The BMW is still fantastic. For me the Alfa works better as a 4cyl overall. The Busso is brilliant and probably one of the best engines ever, but the extra weight on the 156 chassis spoils it for me. Also the standard 156 just looks so perfect. A real classic design that will look fresh for many years to come!
Well said about the GTA bodykit, it looks as the afterthought which it is. The 2.5 SW is to my eyes one of the most unassumingly elegant Alfas and the bodykit cannot improve on this.
I quite like it, each to their own
I've had many alfas, 71 1750, 73 2000. 78spider, 84 maratona, 2 85 gtv6s 83bolocco, and now I just bought a 2002 156 TS 2.0, I can't get enough of them, miss the v6 cars , but the 156 TS is great !
Jack, great review on these two....its a yes to the BMW for me. I loved mine.
Years ago, i bought a used 54k 156 GTA, and it was a great car for 2-ish years. Then, it slowly fell apart.
In that time, i bought a used 76k BMW E46 M3 from a mate to use as a daily driver. The M3 currently has 119k on the clock and is a warm weather car and is still rapid. The 156, however, died years ago. So i'd have to go for the BMW. Grwat video, mate 👍🏻
Owned the standard 2.5 followed by 2.4 JTD. Had Koni shocks fitted to the JTD - made a massive difference too:-)
I'm a true Alfa fan since a kid and owner of many in the past. Never owned a GTA though but drove them, and theyre sweet! The 156 on itself is the best steering and handling fwd Alfa Romeo ever built imo. The suspension problem is easily solved with some good progressieve shocks. The 916 GTV V6's had the same problem. The standard springs were quite ok, the shocks were just too weak. However, there are not many Alfas i would choose over an e46 M3.
What I like about the E46 (M3 or non-M) is how it's so highly modifiable: steering, suspension, short shifters, you name it. Being relatively ubiquitous in the performance car World for the last 20 years, most issues have either decent aftermarket or oem+ solutions. And it's an absolute looker in my opinion.
But the Alfa is so much more special. I remember when I was 16, the father of a then-girlfriend had a GTA and it was absolutely the most glorious thing to ride in (insert obvious raunchy pun here).
I disagree, but I was a Busso owner (156). I still miss it. And this M3, being the best looking (and just look at the current one), the 156 design I think it's a lot better
The Alfa all the way for me...
The Busso elevates any car it's in....
Everyone loves an underdog, and it's 'cool' to favour a worse car.
The E46 M3 is a legendary M car, one of the best of it's era, there really is no comparison. The BMW is better in every way.
Better in which way??
Not in 'every way'. As voted by the 'experts' the overall looks of the Alfa 156 did trump the E46 BMW. In 1998, an international jury of 56 journalists (40 of whom voted for the 156) representing 21 countries awarded the Alfa 156 the European Car of the Year award. It went on to win more accolades in various other countries - totalling some 35. However, I concede that some of the Alfa 156 GTA add-ons - e.g. front spoiler, are not as well integrated as they could have been.
@@georgebettiol8338 'Overall looks' are not something that can be 'won' or 'lost' in a competition, because looks are subjective to the viewer.
Personally I love the E46 it's a fantastic shape and styled car, and I think the Alfa is ugly.
The European car of the year award is just back-patting exercise between the old boys club, and it was not a competition for the best performance car, it was based on all models from the cheapest upwards. We are directly comparing the E46 M3, and the Alfa 156 GTA in this video.
The Alfa is not even in the same class as the M3, or the class below, it's a daft comparison.
The M3 is much faster, much better handling, much more luxurious, and has retained it's value to a much higher level simply because it is a much better car, in every way.
@@DjNikGnashers Humans have been conducting shows for all types of objects and people - so you believe it's all a waste of time. I guess the person that selected 'supermodels' - e.g. Elle Mcpherson, Naomi Campbell, etc. was simply based on his/her subjective view - an interesting perspective.
Your comments relating to the European motoring journalists - suggests a motoring journal conspiracy - WOW - I didn't know that. All I can add is that you are entitled to your own opinion.
I agree that the Alfa 156 GTA is not in the same class as the E46 M3. The true competitor to the Alfa 156 GTA is the E46 330 which offered similar performance and were similarly priced - at circa AUS $90k - when introduced in Australia. The M3 E46 was a whopping $50k (55%) over the aforesaid - so a different league to the Alfa 156 GTA. Whats more, the new car price of the E46 M3 was unbelievably approachng the price of the Porsche 911 996. So needless to say the E46 M3 was ultra expensive - with an emphasis on 'ultra'. Given the choice when new, I would have purchased the far superior Porsche 911 with the added benefit that the Porsche's current value is over double the price of a E46 M3.
@@georgebettiol8338 I had a quick look at used prices, for both the E46 M3, and the comparable Porsche 911 (the 996 model which came out the same year 2000).
The cheapest M3 with 130,000 miles on was £15,995. The most expensive was £36,995 with 22,1000 miles on.
The cheapest 996 911 was £9,500 with 135,000 miles on, the most expensive was
£49,995 with 12,150 miles on.
The early 911 had 315bhp and the later ones 345bhp, so almost a direct rival to the M3 which had 340bhp.
So prices are certainly not double.
You took me back 20 years Jack. I had a new 1999 GTV 3.2 and went straight from that to 2003 E46 M3. The difference was immense mainly from an engineering POV but also ownership experience. The Alfa spent many hours in the workshop and we never ironed all the faults and rattles out. If I was lucky I got a Punto as a loan car. The BMW was leagues ahead in build quality and dealer network. However I didn’t connect with the M3 in quite the same way. I miss both of them and if you gave me the chance now to have one of them back I would be very torn.
believe me, if you want them back your wallet will likely make the decision for you quite quickly
Loved my BM's an Alfa will always a preference over anything else.
cool vid, cheers.
I had 2 Alfas (Alfasud 1979 and Guiletta 1982) before I went on to have 3 BMWs and 3 Mercedes (Non M and non AMG). BMW and Mercedes are quality cars and feeling that you have made it. But it is the Alfas that always remind you of the driving pleasure and how good and unique they really are. Given the latest range of Alfas and their high standards, I think Alfas will soon lead over BMW and Mercedes in the non M and non AMG sector. I think Alfas will become as desirable as having a "Ferrari" for the non M and non AMG sector. Any new Alfas are more unique than their equivalent BMWs and Mercedes (each new generation looks same as previous generation). Thanks to the great videos provided by this channel to remind us how good Alfas are and the magical moments Alfas created!
Agree with you on the M3 steering, & the ratio is slow but the rack can be upgraded. Agree your SMG feelings, it takes experience and skill to work smoothly at low speed, but is effective at speed especially with CSL software upgrade. Manual is not great but many prefer it. If driven hard the front brakes are marginal and it will understeer, but both issues can be improved with mods
Had a 156gta 'back in the day'. Loved everything about it apart from fuel consumption. A great car to drive.
The golden age of BMWs - a range of glorious, bullet proof, straight six engines and superb (no expense spared) build quality.
Unfortunately, by the time of the E46, BMW already started declining. The E46 had a fundamental design flaw with the rear subframe being prone to cracking, rusting worse than a contemporary Alfa and on the M3 the bearings going to sh*t grenading the engine
The natural steering feel can be probably attributed mostly due to the fact the 156 actually has double wishbone suspension, whereas the M3 had a much more quaint mcpherson setup.
Especially at turn in, the 156 has much better camber control than the M3 does.
You have a very unique and excellent channel going on here dude. Well done 👍
Always the 156 for me despite all its flaws.
Назови один.
For the shitty UK roads, I deliberately bought the Koni FSD shocks to go with the Eibach Pro-Kit springs - this suspension upgrade was lower, firmer but at the same time just rode over rough roads with no crashiness (potholes excluded!!), didn't bottom out on those fast dips and speed bumps, etc. Bilstein shocks just don't have the same compliance.
Loved my 156s, the 159 Sportwagon was much better though
The 156 GTA is far from perfect, but I think that the Alfa Romeo has a soul, and the V6 Busso is a jewel.
How awesome Alfa's models from the 90s and 2000s would have been if they were better built and had RWD.
Great comparison. As a former long term owner of both, I think your conclusions are pretty much on the nail. Miss them both, even if neither were very kind to my bank account!
Great video Jack - I miss my 156
There are so few left it’s easy to forget how good those Alfa’s look, especially in estate form.
Great 20 years later revisit. But bit weird to describe the feeling as artificial on the gta. It's just comparing fwd and rwd... rwd is obviously more "natural", but I wouldn't describe the gta as artificial compared to other fwd.
Over the years I've had several bmws, (alpina b10 3.5 e34, 540i manual E39, and 328i sport E36), and Alfas (145 cloverleaf, and 159 sportwagon 2,4jtd remapped to 260bhp), i love both brands, and can't really make a decision on these two. That busso on full chat would be addictive for sure, but so would the s54! 😂❤
My thoughts as a workshop owner is don`t buy any post 2000 BMW - unreliable, overly complex and very expensive to fix. Mercedes slightly better but most of the German stuff post 2000 rubbish in comparison to what they used to be.
You can aid the steering feel on the e46 with some poly LCA bushes, and swapping to the purple tag rack from a z3/e36, its a much quicker rack and feels a lot nicer overall. Great cars, even the 330i/330d's are excellent and with some modifications you can make both the petrol and diesels really come alive. Value for money is very good.
I reckon the Alfa still looks dam cool :)
As soon as those Alfa seats showed their pretty faces, I fast forwarded all the pesky BMW segments! 😍 Great video Sir Jack!
Loved my 156 2.4 Sportwagon. Gunmetal metallic on beautiful grey leather interior. 300,000 Km of high speed internet continental cruising at 160kmph all day long. And good fuel consumption too. See if you can find a GTA with an Autodelta body kit and 3.7 Busso
The BMW steering response can be changed by changing the oil in the power steering. Or turning the power steering off. Then the camber angle of the wheel alignment can be changed too. Furthermore one can change the type of the tires and the width of the wheels.
The Alfa rides better but almost close to the BMW: note that they both have German suspension!
The Alfa has nicer designed seats. And the rounded instruments are just so cool retro.
Indeed the exhaust is not what it should be. Sounds a bit cheapy. Maybe there is still a Supersprint or Ansa muffler out there online.
Compare the wheel alignment with the BMW. Maybe that gives you a right indication on what's going on and what can be changed for the good.
The flotation in bumpy roads is due to a different compromise between springs and dampers... BMW has more "damping" and Alfa has more "spring"... it is a design option...
Alfa can be much more improved with a suspension kit than BMW...
PS - Alfa 156 is one of the best looking sedans ever...
The 4 cylinders were much more capable handlers than the V6s. I had an E36 325i and after it bought a 156 2.0 Twin Spark. On paper the BMW was the much quicker car, but on winding A and B roads you could go into corners 10 - 20mph faster in the Alfa, which made a comfortably quicker car away from motorway driving. The 156 looked fantastic too.
The Alfa definitely looks more special and classic as it ages . For driving dynamics, there's a reason why the E46 M3 is so popular at the nurburgring.
Interestong comparison. I agree, the plastics on the GTA do the var no favours! But most GTA buyers were happy to live with the flaws. Q2 dif makes a massive difference. Bilsteins often too hard for an Alfa.
But you are right, Jack, the E46 M3 is a class above.
My 156 Sportwagon was definitely the best car I’ve owned. Sadly not a GTA, but a beautiful thing to look at and sit in, and lovely to drive…….I’d have another without hesitation!
Loved my 2.4 JTD 5-pot wagon and always had a soft spot for the GTA - lovely car.
I had an E46 M3 SMG, what a shit heap that was. Sub frame, gearbox, wasn't a fan of the exhaust note, the constant costs were horrendous.
Loved it when new until all the things annoyed me to no end. Then the depreciation was the icing on the cake.
Hi Jack. It's a fair comparison, in the sense that these were the two top models from each company. But, big but, the GTA was really a GT car and, the BMW pretty much an outright sports car, dressed up as a saloon.
I can drive my GTA in town at 30mph in 5th, it won't complain. It won't bomb away from 30 in 5th, like a diesel, but it pull enough to not have to drop a couple of gears. I don't think the E46 is like that. However, when plant your foot in the GTA in 2nd gear....it goes and it goes well. Pretty much best of both worlds. I'd love a go in an E46 though....