Can I Fix the Warhammer Mini YOU all Laughed at?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ค. 2024
- As you've probably worked out I am a HUGE fan of Oldhammer, Midhammer and any of the other weird looking minis Warhammer has to offer!
Which means when Games Workshop revealed that their 'New Bretonnian Lord' was ACTUALLY a hand sculpted miniature from 2008 ... I didn't think much of it, in fact I thought he looked pretty cool!
But apparently the internet didn't agree...
So as an ambassador for dated and weird old Warhammer minis I felt it was my duty to prove that this miniature isn't as bad as everyone says he is
...but did I succeed?
Join me on this weird little journey as we discuss Warhammer, crediting, old sculpts, and how to paint miniatures in a way which hides as well as shows off!
CHAPTERS!
00:00 - Intro
02:03 - Let's talk about crediting...
04:42 - So what's ACTUALLY wrong with the miniature?
06:01 - Mocking up a new colourscheme!
06:55 -The hands!
08:24 - The Metallics!
09:43 - The Face!
12:30 - Did I do it... I'm not sure?!
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The old models wonkiness is part of their charm. New technology allows sculptors to do a lot more these days. Well done Martin.
Agreed 👍
The old stuff definitely had a bit more uniqueness and charm. Newer minis kinda look the same for the most part.
totally, more personality and more of the author was in them than nowadays, to the point that some newer minis look AI generated based on 1 good sculpt lol
While I agree, this mini remained unreleased for relatively good reasoning.
@@Wigalot yeah it’s a bit wonky but also it never would have fit on a 20mm base back in the day by the look of it.
Hi Louise. Thats the nicest, most gentle way of saying how silly and slightly sad it is that GW dont credit their artists, sculptors etc. Great vid!
It's not silly and slightly sad, it's a scheme to depress wages. GW doesn't want another Duncan Rhodes or Perry Brothers, where their work becomes good enough that GW has to pay better wages or these people can use their portfolio to find better employment. So like the video games industry (another pillar of worker exploitation) they try to minimize crediting people with the things they do. GW has never sculpted a single figure since it's an idea not a person, but they steal all the credit from the people they pay to do so. And yeah, we should treat it more like theft than something to shrug our shoulders about.
If GW wants to retain top level artists, I suggest they pay them like one or risk losing them to another company that will.
Poor Martin. Nice to see some of the rest of his work.
Hypothetically, not that we did. Obviously.
👀👀👀
@@roguehobbies 🤐
Oooooh
I don't feel bad for Martin Footit this was just a rough sculpt. He has made plenty of great sculpts. That high elf he did for his golden demon was amazing looking, and pretty much all his sculpts for the open competition.
The darker hair really helped the look
I think so too!
The darker hair also increases my Jesus vibes with it. He is the Lord and saviour of Wonkiness
The change of hair colour and skin tone makes a massive difference . There is only so much that you can do with a sculpture of that vintage. Overall really nice
"My potions are too strong for you, traveller".
Hahahaha that brings me back. His face looked similar
😂😂😂
"You cannot handle my potions, traveller. They are too strong for you."
"Potion seller, I am telling you I am going into battle, and I need your strongest potions."
Its canon now, the squire model is the official mascot of the Juggz orphan voice.
Justice for the Squire. He's just a little guy, trying his best. Some good soul out there will one day give him the glow up he deserves. 💜
"Dan and Other Dan" 🤣
Thanks for getting into the credit stuff. It's ludicrous. I went out of my way to find out and credit the sculptors for the new Tyranids in my video about the new bugs ♥
I mean, the Black Coach is one of the finest models ever produced by the studio so I'm delighted whoever sculpted that is still producing amazing pieces.
I see you favored the Noble while leaving the Squire out in the cold. That's fitting, since it's exactly how Brettonian society works.
Suggs when gamer guys are problematic: 😡
Louise when gaming figs are problematic: I can fix him 🥺
It's almost like the whole "Let's talk about crediting" part was coming from a very personal place.
Felt like that was lowkey the actual point of the video <
So many of the earlier GW sculptors have become so famous in their own right. It seems like GW deliberately wants to discourage their artists from getting recognizable enough to set out on their own.
@@charlesweinert4116 if you have a name you can push for better treatment. if you are still "nobody" and uncredited, you can be replaced without much fuss.
@@charlesweinert4116 or their painters...
Ahhh! Paint the squire as a goblin! Even if you have to sculpt some pointy ears and google eyes on him with green stuff.
There's something charming about the almost cartoonish proportions and shapes. Wonkiness aside, the face looks like it would be easy to paint with those large surfaces. It made me think I should get something like this to stand in for the pilots of my Imperial Knights, or maybe a custom Inquisitor.
Man that 2008 Chaos Warrior looks so cool!
It really does
True, I went out of my way to buy one at the time... Incredible sculpt that actually aged beyond well 🙂
The zoom in on the squire at the end whilst the credits rolled sent me 🤣
I love how you identified the restrictions the original painter had to deal with, personally I don’t paint eyes at all lol. Regarding crediting artists, in the 9th Oct 2023 warcom article “40 Years of Warhammer - Favourite Miniatures From the People Behind the Games” there are three different Toms interviewed! I assume one of them is Tom Walton, who shares his sculpted minis on Twitter (most recently the Night Lords kill team, but also things like the Imperial and Chaos knights). Wish more GW peeps could share their stuff.
Early 00's, old?! Gah! That was a shot through the heart...
Sorry bud 🤣
I don't think I have anything in my Warhammer collection that post-dates 1995. In fact I'm fairly certain Brettonia was still fluff and not a playable faction when I quit collecting.
I really dont want "sorry millennials" to be a thing. We're not ready to be old 😂
@@roguehobbies it's okay. Those of us hurt by it won't be able to retain the memory long.
I mean they banned all of our square base models...Storms of Chaos represent!
I have learned, over a long long time in this hobby (I'm RT era old), to reserve judgment until I hold the mini in my hand or see it in person. Mini photography is a skill all on its own and even pros can get it wrong or like you said, be restricted by management's rules and just have to make do. I think yours is about on level with theirs. Its just a hard one to paint and shoot. Good job.
I've always said you can paint the best mini in the world but if you take a bad pic of it it'll look like it's badly painted unfortunately 😞
@@roguehobbies we all have those in our galleries. no shame. and so much nicer when people see it on person and love it.
I think your paint job reflects your style - brighter colours, rosier skin tones. I don’t think it’s better or worse, but in a line up of identical models I reckon we could identify which one you did 😊
Oh that poor Squire
He could be a nice Goblin Squire if he had a green face ^^
6:27 NOOOOOO green has only been a taboo in 6th ed, many images of green heraldry existed before and I think we need to embrace it again
I'm actually super glad to hear this; it was going to make my whole sherwood themed plan really suffer otherwise XD
@@IceJoust go for it brother, if you can find them, grab Bertrand the Brigand and his bowmen
It’s fantasy you make your own rules 😂
If it weren’t for him holding a glove, I feel like people could improve the finger issue just by painting his hands as gloves.
And I think your paint job does improve it quite a bit. It’s one of those instances where no particular change msg stand out, but the net effect is very noticeable.
Martin might not be able to speak out himself, but I'm sure as a man in the hobby, he's glad someone's finally standing up for him =P
I hope so, I'm a big fan of his work and was super excited to see this mini released!
It's hard to be a man named Martin in the hobby....
I’m not gonna say which I prefer, but even if you don’t thing your paint job is *better*, it’s still a super interesting video to point out what painting tricks you can use to minimise things you don’t like about a particular sculpt.
Laughed at? Hell no. I was super happy to see it. The old scale is a bit wonky but I love that eras aesthetics
I agree, but apparently a lot of people didn't 🤣
Agreed, always loved the older models level of detail and less perfect shapes - makes the models have much more life to them when they are less perfect. Plus white metal is generally IMO more forgiving and easier to work in than the plastics (for one thing you can usually just gently bend a mini's arm/leg to repose it, and there tend to be far fewer glue lines between parts - just one mould seam)...
Really the limitations of old sculpting methods and casting often leads to little details that seem a bit odd, and leaving lots of detail up to the painter, where the modern stuff in its million part plastic mould is so covered in sculpted detail you'll wear out a file if you want any detail to be different from the intention... I'd far rather have the former - you can do so much more with the paint when the whole surface isn't covered in detailed fluff...
In this case I'd expect those fingers end up very long on the arm that is part of the torso to avoid a big undercut in the mould, or making his fingers really really short - so the other hand is made to match it. Can't be sure of that of course, very hard to tell just from a video.
But the Squire is just a little guy, just a little fellow, just a tiny man.....he deserves some paint, as a treat
Fun fact (that I'm sure almost nobody noticed)! They actually repainted this mini for the webstore since it launched, and swapped out the product shots, to try and improve the face. The Warhammer Community post shows the original, and the webstore shows the new one (which is now on an off-white background). I think they ruined the squire though, they changed his eyes quite a bit; he was much more adorable first time round!
Damn, the skin color is soooo much better on the store than both the old one and this one
I think both versions have their merits - your darker color scheme I think actually lends itself better to the contours of the model - and in bringing out some of the details like that stag icon on the tilting shield. But the GW official studio model also has a bit crisper fine details like the purity seal script and some of the highlights on the beard and hair. All in all I think the model is still really gorgeous - old hand-sculpted minis have a lot of charm to me.
One thing you did better than the studio artist, who should have known better, was the irises. The most common mistake with the eyes is that people paint them in completely within the white sclera leaving the figure with that 1000 yard stare or the perpetual startled look. A tip for anyone painting the iris, look at your own eyes in the mirror and note how the iris are covered top and bottom by the eyelids. So the previous artist should have been aware of this if they are a professional and on that issue you leave them for dead. It is a surprise that such a small detail has such a big impact on a model but there you have it.
I’d say that no one has influenced my current painting style more than Louise, your poppy, stylish, colorful flavor of painting is amazing and exactly the type of energy I want in the hobby more!
The unstoppable urge of seeing a messed up guy and think "I can fix him" XD
You did quite a solid job, still. I like the eyes the least, but they are very tricky to do, and the mini doesn't help. On the other hand, the heraldic colours look amazing and the golden details complement them perfectly.
6:20 The 6th Edition removal of green from heraldry because "It's associated with the fey" is one of the lamest things ever done to Bretonnia, only topped by the recent legitimising of the lazy practice of painting your knights all the same in TOW, so I approve of your green paint decision.
I painted my Green Knight with glow paint, fluor paints, and sculpted glowing neon green flames, and I blast him with a UV torch before placing him on the table where he subsequently bathes the models he fights in his eerie light (though it only lasts a couple of minutes so he gets a UV top up at the start of every move/combat😋). Removing green to make him special shows an extraordinary lack of imagination.
I love that UV, think I'd go for making him actively electronic if I was doing that now. And I might as I never managed to finish the Bretonnian force I started... But actively flouresing/glowing is a really cool idea...
Red and green is always going to be a tough color combo. Hard not to go "Oh it's Christmas." I think there were some great areas in both yours and the studio painters. I prefer the eyes you did, and I do have to say the comparison did give me a new appreciation for the crispness that the studio painters regularly achieve. Great video!
I have been playing and building bretonnians since 1998.
I saw this figure release and bought it immediately.
It paints up fantastically. And looks fantastic alongside his fellow knights and damsels.
The wonkyness of the website images is a product of the angle of photography.
When viewed top down as the model would be viewed on the tabletop he looks perfectly fine, or better than his contemporary sculpts.
One thing i will say, the eyes on the sculpt are not at the same height (but neither are anyones) but it is noticeable when viewed from below.
Not being able to collect based on the artist is a travesty. Seeing an artist evolve and improve over their career is part of the fandom. It's not impossible, I suppose, but they've certainly made it difficult. This model is transcendent. A bridge from 'learner' to 'skilled' and (if Louise's hint at his other sculpts is on target), to 'master'.
Side-eye at the squire would have been priceless.
I learn so much watching you talk through your painting mate, thanks
My pleasure!
I happen to live fairly close to a company in the USA called IronWind Metals. You might know them better under the companies previous name: Ral Partha. Anyway, IWM sells cast metal minis and the designs range from very modern to stuff designed decades ago. Some of the older sclupts are a bit wonky, and no paint job can change that. That doesn't make them bad, just a product of their time. Faces in particular have benefited massively from modern sculpting methods. I'm sure if Martin were given another go at this model, we would all be amazed at what he would produce.
I can remember when Martin Footit was an Eavy Metal painter and I think he won the internal competition of the new (well, back then it was new - and it's still a really cool mini) CSM Lord - while this Bret mini could use plastic surgery or at least shades, his newer stuff (if it really is his, we shall never know...) is wonderful! I find your paint job improved the sculpt's face.
This is a great exercise in readability of a paint job and sculpt, hand in hand. Thank you Louise!
As an aside, I'd love to see the little Squire transformed via a kitbash. A 40K/grimdark makeover with some spare little bits from kits - a cool experiment across time and settings. The little guy has been through so much already - why not give him a fresh hell to contend with? 💀
I think that's a miniature where I would just put some heavy washes into the eyesockets and give him the "dark and broody" look.
I didn’t realize it at first but I think they missed applying gold metallics to detail on the second glove in the studio art. I only noticed it because both of your painted gloves have gold detailing, but the one from the studio is the same brown as the rest of the glove.
Poor little squire! I have a lot of love for old minis, even if they're really janky looking. There's still a lot of thought and artistry in them!
You giving credit to Martin is the best internet thing I seen in the whole year!. Thanks for being that way! Artists need credit!
Love the honesty at the end showing how the original painter did do a good job. Your paint job looks awesome though.
Save the squire! save the world!
(yes that is a heroes reference)
Your little guys hands and face are much better, the color scheme you used was definitely an improvement just overall for contrast. However the original artists lines are def more crisp and sharp in the details. The Rogue's paintjob was my preferred look, it just maybe could have used a few more hours to tighten it up and get all the little details sharper.
I come here for the positivity and I stay for the great paint jobs. I like this model, and I certainly agree that a lot of the techniques used improved the overall look of it. Martin is a much better sculptor than I could ever be!
I love any excuse for Louise to do her Victorian child voice
Same 🤣
early 2k 'old hammer' is still like 20 years ago. We getting old y'all.
Really looking forward to this one! I bought the dude purely to paint. I like the "Get yeself somewhere safe lad, dem orcs ar comin up over't'hills" vibe him and his squire give off.
He's a man of the people.
I think the mini fits right in with the old aesthetic of old world.
What a shocking ending, I really didn’t expect that.
People demand Oldhammer.
GW release Oldhammer (a literal previously unreleased Bretonnian model from WHFB)
People complain that Oldhammer doesn't look like Newhammer.
I love derp knight! hes iconic, like nagash! XD
We love and respect OG nagash in this family
One of the greatest of all times!
I really think your tricks with the face make that look better! Also, every time I visit your channel I will wonder, "is this the day Louise paints the squire?"
Louise took a Bretonian lord and turned him into medieval Jesus.
Excellent job, Louise! It looks way better!
Getting pretty good at those thumbnails.
Also Juggz is such a blast to paint with. 🤘😁
Juggz would approve of this thumbnail, it's just missing the red circle and (Warhammer lore)
🤣
The wonkiness is the appeal and charm- I'm stoked the old 6ed WHFB night gobbos are back with their giant banana bows.
There's plenty of knights that have green coats of arms in the total war games. It's a color that works aesthetically with heraldry, and saying that no one in an army that was originally advertised as being super colorful can have that particular color because a ghost guy feels very green or something is completely silly in my Bretonnian book.
I think the darker hair helped bring the circlet out more, your color scheme looks great even if it is anti-lore, and while I'm not sure your work on the hands and face overcame the flaws of the model they definitely didn't hurt. I like the cloak change, it separates better from the white background which I guess is really only a problem on the GW store page but still. It may not be the fault of the GW painter due to company fiat, but that doesn't mean we all have to paint ours that way. You showed a different way to approach the mini, and your dissection of both the sculpt and the paint jobs is worth thinking over for anyone who wants to paint this guy. I'm one of those who finds charm in the slightly cartoony older sculpts, but I'd still give some of your tweaks a try if I thought I had the skills to pull it off.
I think both styles are evocative - the studio one feels like a lord from a city, a wealthy estate, and yours is more wilderness baron, more connected with the land, a lord of fields and forests.
1) yours is better, 2) due to understanding how to shape features with lighting, and 3) I have spoken to an ex GW sculptor and very accomplished painter and they told me that the studio has a step by step prescribed way to paint and it wasn't designed to account for how painted minis read at a distance.
This model is from a different time and studio (probably under Morley rule?) but you have managed to make it look just fine, grats!
Well done Martin. Thanks Louise, helps a lot!
As someone who is only interested in the GW minis from the 80s and 90s, this mini and its paint job look fine to me 😂
A bit goofy yes. But so much more charming and less cluttered than the minis they make today. And it’s a character not standing on some stupid plinth or rock or giant pipe, imagine that!
The Squire doesn’t just GET a paint job. He’s a squire; he has to earn it. After a year of faithful service to his Lord, he MAY be given the honor of a base coat.
I was half expecting you to come out and reveal that YOU were the OG painter of that particular model -- and that now a more experienced multiverse version of you is here to redeem an old paint job. But from the looks of it this model was probably done way before your time! And holy heck -- how can anyone say anything bad about this mini -- when the Black Coach (which I actually have) is one of the most freakin' awesome of models ever.
When he was revealed a while ago i thought he looked silly, but he absolutely carries that Oldhammer charm so i was pretty excited overall. Ive only been in the hobby a few years but i love the slight silliness of older minis. It's why i love this guy, and why im glad i got a ton of old Beastmen from an Oldhammer buddy in my group.
The OG paintjob looks better than I first thought when viewed from different angles.
That said, what you did to the fingers seems to be a big improvement - *_but_* the end result and comparison only really proves that there is no fixing that face without going in and sculpting a bushier beard to fill out that endless void beneath his cheekbones...
I havent bought or painted miniatures, or been even moderately devoted to Warhammer for 20+ years. But I find these videos so incredibly fun and satisfying.
Before the sleigh…
Before the reindeer…
Before the elves…
Before the milk and cookies…
Before he was Father Christmas…
Rogue Hobbies brings you…
Young Beady Eyed Bretonnian Lord Santa with great Sword
Unsurprisingly, your model looks fantastic.
I think you definitely fixed the hands. You were spot on on how to make the fingers look less elongated.
Though I think the darker hair looks better aesthetically, I think the face looks about the same. I don't know if there's any way to truly fix that.
Like with the hair and face, I think the color choices for the clothes were better but I wouldn't say it "fixes" the original as that's more of just a personal aesthetic opinion.
Nice work on it. The wonky sculpts are part of the charm of the Oldhammer period. The model kind of gives me Bob Ollie vibes, which I love.
Your darker hair makes a huge difference. Even if you adhere to nmm bans and no green the dark hair would be enough to improve it. Poor derpy squire haha
Kinda feel like part of the fingers issue is also that they're all the same length, so ends up looking like a load of sausages lined up. Painting the ends of the fingers black to hide them is a cool technique for fixing them up
Very good effort, but I agree with you that both paintjobs hold up just as well with a challenging model. Also I liked that you managed to include your London starving waif impression, too notch.
*top notch
The pinned scrolls on the sword aside... I adore this mini. Look forward to seeing what you do with him.
I think the sculpt has an uncanny valley problem that no paint is really going to solve.
The underside of the brow, and the top of the eye socket are too flat, and the two sides are asymmetrical in size.
The dorsum/middle of the nose seems to extend directly down from the glabella/brow without a root (there should be a soft dip there), so it looks like the nose guard of a helmet more than a nose.
The eyes are directly touching the nose as well, which looks uncanny. There's normally space there for the tear ducts and sinuses, so he looks like Bert from Sesame Street.
The cheek bones aren't in the correct position, even with them being too big, they'd look more natural if they were lower, and tapered inward toward the upper jaw.
The lower half is covered with a perfectly fine looking beard though.
This kind of jank was common in models back then. I think, though. They opted to use the other model back then, due to it just being better work. It's cool that this model saw the light of day though. Art doesn't need to be perfect to be valid.
I joined a few old miniature groups of Facebook to try to track down some older models from 80s and 90s, that I either had but lost or wished I had gotten at the time but missed out. There’s something about the old heavy pre-slotta models that is missing today.
Did not expect Handsome Squidward, nearly choked on lunch
I think the biggest improvement is the darker hair and beard. And I think you hit the nail on the head, the problem isn't really the miniature is badly sculpted, or badly painted ... it is the colour scheme and background were obviously not chosen by a professional, but some guy in a suit.
Displaying the min against a black background is a MASSIVE improvement!
a face only a Grognard could love (it is me, i am the Grognard)
As a old timer I liked old sculpture, and there was nothing wrong with the old paint job, but yours was amazing. I learned a bit too. I doff my cap to you
I unironically love that old lord
I really love older models. The single pose metal models for some reason just give me the warm and fuzzy all over. You did a great job with this guy. The only thing that ever really gets me is the crazy scale difference in those transition years from metal to plastics.
Fair point that a lot of what makes your paint job better are choices that the studio painter wouldn't likely have been allowed to make, but regardless, yours is miles better to look at. I'm sure just picking a different skin colour would've helped a ton on the O.G.
I got this miniature for my D&D Paladin character in the future who takes his Halfling Nephew everywhere to solely carry his helmet that he never wears as it would cover his high cheekbones
For eyes I have been using a 0.3mm black fineliner pen. Ohh what a difference its made. Give it a try. Awesome video as always. Keep it up. ❤
That chaos dwarf at 0:29 is a clear 12/10 xD. For real thou it has a ton of charm to it.
Personally I think he looks a lot better with your paintjob for sure, you nailed it!
That poor Squire… cold and alone without paint. That poor… poor Little Guy….
This guy screams "it was the style at the time" and I kind of love it.
9:32 ...And this one time ...At band camp...
I think your face is definitely an improvement over the GW face. The rest of the model is a draw between the two paint jobs. I love your color choices but I'm personally not a fan of NMM. But regardless of comparisons you gave it a fantastic paint job!
I prefer Louise’s face too! Much more attractive than either version of the Bretonnian lord.
This is an amazing video, for a lot of reasons. I have been playing/hobbying for 25 years now, and a quarter century of price hikes, squatted armies, and nuked games can really turn you into a grumpy old curmudgeon. Thank you for your positivity and pointing out that not everything is awful 🙂.
Hi Louise, I think you have solved the biggest issue, namely the elongated hand/fingers and face. Your solution works very well to define the borders and shift the focus. A job well done! 🖌🥳
Oooh I see now, the sculptor was trying for Christopher Lee!
The part I think you legitimately did better on is the face and that's the bulk of the issue with the model, the the contouring helps the face look a lot more natural rather than the hapsburgian freak face the OG studio paintjob had.
I do think you succeeded in making the face look fuller, but overall I prefer the studio's piece this time. And I think the turquoise packaging fixed the problems with the website's white background. I also think you did make the right hand look less goofy.
I think you should be proud of your piece, it did achieve the main points you wanted to fix, and is still a good paint job.
I think you did fix what you were able to (hair color, Cloak color, finger length) but other aspects are just inherent to the model. Thank you for sharing your process and aporoach.