We’ve run several different brands of tires, and these have been our favorite tires for our machine. Really solid all around tire at a pretty reasonable price.
I am on my 2nd set of Tusk Terrabites tires. First on my 2018 Honda Pioneer 1000 and just recently on my NEW 2021 Pioneer 1000. Switched out on day one. I had no desire to even run the factory wheels after the great experience with the first set. I am running 10 plys as i put a hole in the sidewall of my 2018 4 ply factory tires and now won't ever get caught with a 4 ply again! I am running them on bead lock wheels and have zero issues. Love how they look as well.
Awesome! We will most likely get another set next year when these are done. They also have the megabytes which look a little more aggressive but I think for as much road riding we do the terrabites do a great job at everything. We even had them on some frozen lakes this weekend. It was slick but we got around.
🏆🏆🏆👍🇺🇲🙏 Beautiful sweet-faced Labrador💝 Very detailed and thorough review 👍 I run an Interco Sniper 920 radial. Made in Louisiana. DOT approved, 10 ply, 3/4" tread depth, wrap around lugs. For mud, I have Super ATV Intimidators, 6 ply, bias ply, made in Louisiana. 2" tread depth, wrap around lugs. Both sets are 28x10-14 MSA M12 Diesel 14x7 wheels. I love both sets on my Honda Pioneer 1000-5. But, I'm currently running the Snipers for street and hard pack use. Thank you for sharing
Great video. We went with the bfg km3 on our 2020 general xp 4 an have been very happy. The tusk were also one we looked at. Sounds like we do similar riding that you guys do.
Great review. The second time I’ve watched this. Decided that this is the tire I will go with on my old Ranger. I have the original stock steel rims and Carlisle tires. With this older machine not sure it’s worth putting money into nicer rims. Had someone offer a set of Rzr 12” rims and then someone told me they will not fit. Caliper clearance or something…
Thanks!!’ They’re great tires! We’ve ran the 8 ply and now are running the 10. We’ve run a few different brands and these have been our favorites hands down. When you’re ready to buy do us a favor - click the link in the video description to take you to the website. It’ll help support the channel!
Very informative video. It looks like we ride some of the same roads, I live in Ridgeway and saw the Hyde Mill in the video. Would you still recommend these tires for mainly pavement riding with some mixed trail riding in SW WI?
Yep! We are just to the east of Ridgeway a bit. If you want to reach out via our website, Northwoods.family we can chat more - don’t want to publicly post our address :) These tires are great for road riding. So much better than the factory tires!! We’ve used these tires on everything from roads, to rocky trails, gravel, dirt even some mud. Really happy with them. We are actually running the 10-ply aramid version now - probably overkill for riding in Wisconsin but for our out west trips the added durability and puncture resistance is nice. If you pick some up - do us a favor and use the link in our video description to take you to the website - it helps us keep our channel going :)
Nice job on the video. Enjoy all your videos. I have the same tires on a two seater riding mainly northern Wisconsin trails. My experience is similar to yours. Have about 1000 miles on mine. Only difference is I went with 30” tires.
Thanks we appreciate it! We may bump up a size or two when these are done. I know we can get at least 28s in a 14” rim maybe 29s and should have enough clearance.
I just bought a yamaha rmax and it came with 30in maxxis carnivores. I wanted a taller and wider stance so I went with 32in tusk terrabites but they are almost the same size. They are not 2 inches larger. Love the rims but the tire size runs smaller than what they say.
Out of curiosity, where about in Wi? I'm from Suring. As I'm sure most know in Wi, a lot of blacktop, and in my area, other then blacktop it's Sand. Hard to find a tire for that. Cheers Mike
We have a 2020rzr xp1000 we also have the tusk terrabites great tires would buy again we we need to replace them anybody needing tire I would recommend tusk terrabites you want go wrong
We run the stock pressure recommended by the manufacturer. I think it’s 16 front and 22 rear? Some people feel that’s high but I’ve run lower and I don’t feel the machine handles as well. I think usually the manufacturer knows what they’re doing. On really loose or muddy trails we might air down a bit but we usually haul a lot so we don’t want to break a bead
Great videos, we watch every one. Question, do you run the Polaris recommended pressure on pavement? The reason I ask is we put 29" Terrabites on our Northstar, and run mostly on road routes. I am contemplating raising the pressure for pavement....maybe 14-16.
Thanks! We appreciate the support! We do air them up a bit when we’re going to be on pavement a lot or when we are hauling heavier loads. You could try it and see how they wear. In hindsight, we should have gotten same size all around so we could rotate them 🤷♂️
I been running Terrabites at 18# on all four. Original 12" rims. (27x9x12 frt - 27x11x12 rear. 27x9x12 spare) I never had a incident where I had to lower the pressure. Lots of sandy trails in Michigan. 70% highway/30% offroad. 2600 miles. Terrabites are bi-directional. Just switch vehicle sides.
Good video, comments and questions. This was a question I was looking for. I have a 2018 Yamaha Viking and can’t seem to get and mileage on the front tires. Pavement just eats the front tires. 27x9x12 fronts, 27x11x12 rears. I wonder if it’s because of the front tire more rounded edges compared to the rear is pretty flat. Second set on the front and still on the first set on the rear with hardly any noticeable wear. Appreciate any advice. Thanks
This is a great tire. I also am running the Tusk Terrabites as well. Awesome tire. I recommend going up to a 32x10x14 though. The 4 seater is so long, and the 32"s are a perfect fit and will make a world of difference. Those tiny tires on a big machine just don't look right at all. IMO Good luck
Wow 32! They do look awesome with the bigger tires. Are you running those on a General? With the DLX I’m pretty sure I’d have to make some suspension changes to have room and probably some transmission mods too
They do fine in patches of loose sand that have a decent base… you do feel them slipping a little but never really lost speed. But we haven’t ridden in a lot of sand. We did ride them in the snow… they slip a lot there but we went on some pretty good trail rides. Really deep snow is obviously tough. If I was doing sand dunes or something, I’d want sand tires though. I don’t know how well they’d or any truck style radial would do on straight sand.
We have the Razorback Off-road Expedition Rack. It’s awesome. We have a review on it on our channel too. Heavy duty, really well built. Helps us carry so much more gear. Highly recommend em!
Why not put wider tires front and rear so that they could still be rotated?? Wider tires in the rear for weight distribution I understand, but, unless it’s a steering/handling reason, I’d rather wider tires on all 4, instead of just the rear 2. Plus there might be a discount to ordering tires and/or rims all in the same size and brand. What is the advantage to having narrower tires just in the front??
At some point you can’t go wider in the front because of clearance. Going too wide up front make it harder to turn, and can negatively affect the steering and handling. Traditionally narrower tires were used up front because it was easier to steer machines without power steering. Really it’s not so much narrower up front, it’s that the front tires are as wide as you can go, but you can go wider in the back if you want usually because those tires aren’t turning. They’re just for drive traction. Kind of the same way race cars have larger rear tires.
Just wondering how much street and hard pack you do, I am searching for a tire I am not going to wear out in less then 2000 miles do you have a turf mode or do both your rear tires drive all the time?
These will last you more than 2000. Almost all of our riding is road/hard gravel/rock. Very little soft dirt or mud. We usually run both rear wheels on the road… usually hauling a lot of weight.
They are super fast, really good to deal with. We are two time zones ahead but we usually get a shipping notification the same day. Most of the time our order is here in 2-3 days.
Do you know if rocky mountain balanced the tires? I have just ordered the same ones that I'm doing to put on my factory rims. Not sure who I will have mount them yet but am wondering if I have to balance them. Not even sure if typical shop is capable.
So I did order with the tire balancing because I figured we’d be on the road a fair amount at high speeds. That said, I don’t see any weights on the rims. Possible they came off. I know some places will balance ATV tires using ceramic beads inside or a tire gunk that relies on centrifugal force, but if they are balanced I don’t see any visual evidence of it. I have been running another set of wheels from another company that were sent to me, I don’t believe they are balanced and the ride is great. I’m skeptical about whether tire balancing really makes a difference on these machines. To start, the factory bias ply tires aren’t balanced to my knowledge, and people run them at high speeds all the time. Second, once you get some mud caked in the rim or on the lugs, it throws odd the balance anyways. I’ve scraped and pressure washed a lot of dried mud from the inside of our wheels after rides and never could tell the difference before or after. And then finally, these tires wear pretty quickly and are usually a softer compound. Between that and the big lugs, I think they’re difficult to balance either way I don’t know that balancing them will really help improve tire life. If I were to order again, I don’t think I’d pay for tire balancing and see how it goes.
I know it's been awhile since this video but how have the terrabite tires held up over the years? I have a 2020 xp, and it's time for tires. The terrabites are on my radar because of their sub $200 price. I ride in most terrain other than rock crawling....and I do plow snow. Thanks for your opinion!!!
Been pretty happy with them! We had another tire to test but I bet we’d have gotten 4,000+ miles of heavy riding on them. We are running a set of the heavy duty Aramid terrabites now and have about 1000 miles and they still look new. We’re very happy If you order some please use the link in our video ;)
@@TheNorthwoodsFamily thank you for the info and the reminder of your affiliate link. I was also looking at the 10 ply but thought it being a stronger tire it would create a stiffer ride.
Rocky Mountain ATV says they're not DOT approved (a staff member on their site says that). How can this be verified either way? We'd like to get a set for our Ranger XP 1000. Thanks.
Sorry for the slow reply, busy couple of days here. The tires are DOT certified. I went out to the garage to confirm the DOT lettering on the sidewall.
@@TheNorthwoodsFamily Thanks for checking! I’m reading now that manufacturers are removing the DOT lettering from their tires and retailers are not saying they’re DOT rated. Disappointing for sure.
No… thankfully not! The clips you’re probably looking at were from a 7-day/650 mile overlanding trip with our two kids. th-cam.com/video/CbST0dIS7TA/w-d-xo.html For a normal day of riding we’ll carry a spare, fuel can or two, small tool kit and a cooler. We always have an emergency / recovery kit we keep in our under seat storage too and a few comfort items for everyone.
I have not measured them that closely. I’ve heard that too - I haven’t noticed looking at them or in performance however so they can’t be that much off.
Excellent. We ride 50% on paved roads and they’re really great. Significant noise and vibration reduction over factory bias ply tires and better than other brand radials we’ve tried.
Factory recommended for our machine which I think it’s 16 front and 22 rear. I tried lower pressures but the machine didn’t run as smooth at least on roads and hard packed trails.
![Polaris General Canvas Upper Doors Review || Soft UTV Doors [Polaris General 4 1000 Side by Side]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vKOOOTmEcBM/mqdefault.jpg)
You did a good job on this review. Lots of solid information here 👍
Thanks a bunch! Means a lot to us coming from you guys!!! 🙏🏼
Awesome review. Thanks for sharing and explaining the different types of tires.
You bet! Glad it was helpful.
I bought these and absolutely love them they are fantastic.
We’ve run several different brands of tires, and these have been our favorite tires for our machine. Really solid all around tire at a pretty reasonable price.
I am on my 2nd set of Tusk Terrabites tires. First on my 2018 Honda Pioneer 1000 and just recently on my NEW 2021 Pioneer 1000. Switched out on day one. I had no desire to even run the factory wheels after the great experience with the first set. I am running 10 plys as i put a hole in the sidewall of my 2018 4 ply factory tires and now won't ever get caught with a 4 ply again! I am running them on bead lock wheels and have zero issues. Love how they look as well.
Awesome! We will most likely get another set next year when these are done. They also have the megabytes which look a little more aggressive but I think for as much road riding we do the terrabites do a great job at everything. We even had them on some frozen lakes this weekend. It was slick but we got around.
What size did you go with for your Pioneer? I am looking to gets some terrabites for mine. Just curious if you went away from factory sizes.
@@johngeisler3418 hi, I went with 28x10x14 and 4+3 offset. Same for all four tires. I also whet with the 10 ply (did 8 ply on my 2018) Love 'em!
I run these on my son’s Teryx2 and love the 28x10x14 !The ride and noice difference was amazing when I put them on👍❤️
Awesome! So much nicer than stock bias ply tires!
Looks like I made a good choice they'll be here tomorrow.
Awesome! Yeah they’re good tires. Everyone we know who has owned a set has had a food experience. Happy riding!
🏆🏆🏆👍🇺🇲🙏
Beautiful sweet-faced Labrador💝
Very detailed and thorough review 👍
I run an Interco Sniper 920 radial. Made in Louisiana. DOT approved, 10 ply, 3/4" tread depth, wrap around lugs. For mud, I have Super ATV Intimidators, 6 ply, bias ply, made in Louisiana. 2" tread depth, wrap around lugs. Both sets are 28x10-14 MSA M12 Diesel 14x7 wheels. I love both sets on my Honda Pioneer 1000-5. But, I'm currently running the Snipers for street and hard pack use.
Thank you for sharing
Awesome! I’ve heard good things about Interco tires. Rosie is a hoot, isn’t she? She’s ten years old but most of the time acts like she’s three 😆
I appreciate the information. I know of others that use the Tusk Terrabites and they are equally impressed with them.
Glad to hear others are having a good experience, thanks Reed!
Great video. We went with the bfg km3 on our 2020 general xp 4 an have been very happy. The tusk were also one we looked at. Sounds like we do similar riding that you guys do.
I know a number of people running various BFGs on their razors. Seems to be a solid choice
Just bought a set of 30s for my maverick sport max. I can't wait to test them out.
That should be sweet! Let us know how it goes after you get some miles on!
we are
Great vid!! A lot of information and love the area you ride! Keep it up well done!!
Thanks!!!
Damn you work for Tusk???? (Kidding) Lol best review ever. Thank you very much.
Lol nope. Paid full price too. Same with our roof / roof rack. They seem to make good stuff 🤷♂️
Great review. The second time I’ve watched this. Decided that this is the tire I will go with on my old Ranger. I have the original stock steel rims and Carlisle tires. With this older machine not sure it’s worth putting money into nicer rims. Had someone offer a set of Rzr 12” rims and then someone told me they will not fit. Caliper clearance or something…
Thanks!!’ They’re great tires! We’ve ran the 8 ply and now are running the 10. We’ve run a few different brands and these have been our favorites hands down.
When you’re ready to buy do us a favor - click the link in the video description to take you to the website. It’ll help support the channel!
Very informative video. It looks like we ride some of the same roads, I live in Ridgeway and saw the Hyde Mill in the video. Would you still recommend these tires for mainly pavement riding with some mixed trail riding in SW WI?
Yep! We are just to the east of Ridgeway a bit. If you want to reach out via our website, Northwoods.family we can chat more - don’t want to publicly post our address :)
These tires are great for road riding. So much better than the factory tires!! We’ve used these tires on everything from roads, to rocky trails, gravel, dirt even some mud. Really happy with them. We are actually running the 10-ply aramid version now - probably overkill for riding in Wisconsin but for our out west trips the added durability and puncture resistance is nice.
If you pick some up - do us a favor and use the link in our video description to take you to the website - it helps us keep our channel going :)
Nice job on the video. Enjoy all your videos. I have the same tires on a two seater riding mainly northern Wisconsin trails. My experience is similar to yours. Have about 1000 miles on mine. Only difference is I went with 30” tires.
Thanks we appreciate it! We may bump up a size or two when these are done. I know we can get at least 28s in a 14” rim maybe 29s and should have enough clearance.
@@TheNorthwoodsFamily I don’t have an XP, but do have 814 suspension and have no clearance issues with 30” tire on a 14” rim.
@@asagmeis cool, that’s good to know - and on the 14” rims too. Thanks!
I just bought a yamaha rmax and it came with 30in maxxis carnivores. I wanted a taller and wider stance so I went with 32in tusk terrabites but they are almost the same size. They are not 2 inches larger. Love the rims but the tire size runs smaller than what they say.
We’ve heard that from a few others too that they may run an inch or so smaller than others of the same size.
Good information- thanks for your thoroughness 👍
Glad it was helpful!
Just added the Aramid Terrabites on my 23 Yamaha Wolverine X4 850 XT-R, like yesterday. I'll post a update if needed.
Awesome! Yeah let us know how it goes. We’re on our second set now - running the 10ply aramids ourselves.
Out of curiosity, where about in Wi?
I'm from Suring.
As I'm sure most know in Wi, a lot of blacktop, and in my area, other then blacktop it's Sand. Hard to find a tire for that.
Cheers
Mike
Sure thing - Oconto County :) We’re half an hour west of Madison, a little outside of Dane County.
Great info. Did you stay with the stock lug nuts?
Nope - we ordered the Tusk ones. I think the outside diameter is a little smaller… but honestly never checked.
We have a 2020rzr xp1000 we also have the tusk terrabites great tires would buy again we we need to replace them anybody needing tire I would recommend tusk terrabites you want go wrong
Awesome. They definitely served us well!
Very good review cheers.
Thank you!
We just purchased some Tusk Terrabites I was wondering what tire pressure are you running, we'll be riding in areas of West Virginia
We run the stock pressure recommended by the manufacturer. I think it’s 16 front and 22 rear? Some people feel that’s high but I’ve run lower and I don’t feel the machine handles as well. I think usually the manufacturer knows what they’re doing. On really loose or muddy trails we might air down a bit but we usually haul a lot so we don’t want to break a bead
Good information from user, appricate the information.
Thanks Jim! Appreciate your continued support
I've heard a lot of mixed reviews, hope they are holding up.
We've been pretty happy overall. I got a small leak in one on the bead but some sealant took care of it.
@@TheNorthwoodsFamily glad to hear that.
Great videos, we watch every one. Question, do you run the Polaris recommended pressure on pavement? The reason I ask is we put 29" Terrabites on our Northstar, and run mostly on road routes. I am contemplating raising the pressure for pavement....maybe 14-16.
Thanks! We appreciate the support! We do air them up a bit when we’re going to be on pavement a lot or when we are hauling heavier loads. You could try it and see how they wear. In hindsight, we should have gotten same size all around so we could rotate them 🤷♂️
I been running Terrabites at 18# on all four. Original 12" rims. (27x9x12 frt - 27x11x12 rear. 27x9x12 spare)
I never had a incident where I had to lower the pressure. Lots of sandy trails in Michigan. 70% highway/30% offroad. 2600 miles. Terrabites are bi-directional. Just switch vehicle sides.
Good video, comments and questions. This was a question I was looking for. I have a 2018 Yamaha Viking and can’t seem to get and mileage on the front tires. Pavement just eats the front tires. 27x9x12 fronts, 27x11x12 rears. I wonder if it’s because of the front tire more rounded edges compared to the rear is pretty flat. Second set on the front and still on the first set on the rear with hardly any noticeable wear. Appreciate any advice.
Thanks
This is a great tire. I also am running the Tusk Terrabites as well. Awesome tire. I recommend going up to a 32x10x14 though. The 4 seater is so long, and the 32"s are a perfect fit and will make a world of difference. Those tiny tires on a big machine just don't look right at all. IMO Good luck
Wow 32! They do look awesome with the bigger tires. Are you running those on a General? With the DLX I’m pretty sure I’d have to make some suspension changes to have room and probably some transmission mods too
How are they in loose sand, and did you loose any speed?
They do fine in patches of loose sand that have a decent base… you do feel them slipping a little but never really lost speed. But we haven’t ridden in a lot of sand. We did ride them in the snow… they slip a lot there but we went on some pretty good trail rides. Really deep snow is obviously tough. If I was doing sand dunes or something, I’d want sand tires though. I don’t know how well they’d or any truck style radial would do on straight sand.
Curious about the racks you have on your General as well and if you like the setup
We have the Razorback Off-road Expedition Rack. It’s awesome. We have a review on it on our channel too. Heavy duty, really well built. Helps us carry so much more gear. Highly recommend em!
Great looking racks. Looked at their website and unfortunately they have nothing for the Polaris Ranger.
Great info, What exact tire sizes did u go with for the front and back? Thk u. My new General is enroute would love to get these.
You bet. Fronts we got 27-9-14 and rears were 27-11-14
Any balance issues or tire being out of round with these tires
No problems. Have done 70mph on these tires on pavement and they were remarkable smooth and stable.
Why not put wider tires front and rear so that they could still be rotated??
Wider tires in the rear for weight distribution I understand, but, unless it’s a steering/handling reason, I’d rather wider tires on all 4, instead of just the rear 2.
Plus there might be a discount to ordering tires and/or rims all in the same size and brand.
What is the advantage to having narrower tires just in the front??
At some point you can’t go wider in the front because of clearance. Going too wide up front make it harder to turn, and can negatively affect the steering and handling.
Traditionally narrower tires were used up front because it was easier to steer machines without power steering.
Really it’s not so much narrower up front, it’s that the front tires are as wide as you can go, but you can go wider in the back if you want usually because those tires aren’t turning. They’re just for drive traction. Kind of the same way race cars have larger rear tires.
Just wondering how much street and hard pack you do, I am searching for a tire I am not going to wear out in less then 2000 miles do you have a turf mode or do both your rear tires drive all the time?
These will last you more than 2000. Almost all of our riding is road/hard gravel/rock. Very little soft dirt or mud. We usually run both rear wheels on the road… usually hauling a lot of weight.
Do you recommend dealing with Rocky Mountain how long did it take to receive your order
They are super fast, really good to deal with. We are two time zones ahead but we usually get a shipping notification the same day. Most of the time our order is here in 2-3 days.
Do you know if rocky mountain balanced the tires? I have just ordered the same ones that I'm doing to put on my factory rims. Not sure who I will have mount them yet but am wondering if I have to balance them. Not even sure if typical shop is capable.
So I did order with the tire balancing because I figured we’d be on the road a fair amount at high speeds. That said, I don’t see any weights on the rims. Possible they came off. I know some places will balance ATV tires using ceramic beads inside or a tire gunk that relies on centrifugal force, but if they are balanced I don’t see any visual evidence of it.
I have been running another set of wheels from another company that were sent to me, I don’t believe they are balanced and the ride is great.
I’m skeptical about whether tire balancing really makes a difference on these machines. To start, the factory bias ply tires aren’t balanced to my knowledge, and people run them at high speeds all the time.
Second, once you get some mud caked in the rim or on the lugs, it throws odd the balance anyways. I’ve scraped and pressure washed a lot of dried mud from the inside of our wheels after rides and never could tell the difference before or after.
And then finally, these tires wear pretty quickly and are usually a softer compound. Between that and the big lugs, I think they’re difficult to balance either way I don’t know that balancing them will really help improve tire life.
If I were to order again, I don’t think I’d pay for tire balancing and see how it goes.
I know it's been awhile since this video but how have the terrabite tires held up over the years? I have a 2020 xp, and it's time for tires. The terrabites are on my radar because of their sub $200 price. I ride in most terrain other than rock crawling....and I do plow snow. Thanks for your opinion!!!
Been pretty happy with them! We had another tire to test but I bet we’d have gotten 4,000+ miles of heavy riding on them. We are running a set of the heavy duty Aramid terrabites now and have about 1000 miles and they still look new. We’re very happy
If you order some please use the link in our video ;)
@@TheNorthwoodsFamily thank you for the info and the reminder of your affiliate link. I was also looking at the 10 ply but thought it being a stronger tire it would create a stiffer ride.
Rocky Mountain ATV says they're not DOT approved (a staff member on their site says that). How can this be verified either way? We'd like to get a set for our Ranger XP 1000. Thanks.
Sorry for the slow reply, busy couple of days here. The tires are DOT certified. I went out to the garage to confirm the DOT lettering on the sidewall.
@@TheNorthwoodsFamily Thanks for checking! I’m reading now that manufacturers are removing the DOT lettering from their tires and retailers are not saying they’re DOT rated. Disappointing for sure.
What size are those your running?
These are 27x9x14 front and 27x11x14 rear
Do you carry that much stuff all the time
No… thankfully not! The clips you’re probably looking at were from a 7-day/650 mile overlanding trip with our two kids.
th-cam.com/video/CbST0dIS7TA/w-d-xo.html
For a normal day of riding we’ll carry a spare, fuel can or two, small tool kit and a cooler. We always have an emergency / recovery kit we keep in our under seat storage too and a few comfort items for everyone.
How are the height of the terrabites? I heard they run a little shorter then most brands is that true?
I have not measured them that closely. I’ve heard that too - I haven’t noticed looking at them or in performance however so they can’t be that much off.
How are these tires for road noise on a paved road?
Excellent. We ride 50% on paved roads and they’re really great. Significant noise and vibration reduction over factory bias ply tires and better than other brand radials we’ve tried.
What PSI are you running
Factory recommended for our machine which I think it’s 16 front and 22 rear. I tried lower pressures but the machine didn’t run as smooth at least on roads and hard packed trails.
You should have just bought a Jeep since you drive
it on the road so much .?. 🤣
Sometimes I think that too! For us to hit any decent trails we have at least a two hour drive… most of our off roading is on our long trips 🤷♂️
The tires are 8 Ply Rated Construction not actually 8 ply's
Good point you’re right - it is a rating, doesn’t necessarily mean they have 8 layers.