CAHSR Road Trip - Anaheim, Los Angeles, Burbank, Palmdale, Bakersfield - California High Speed Rail
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ค. 2024
- We're hitting the road to see California High Speed Rail as you've not seen it before. 500 miles from Anaheim to San Francisco by road, catching the CAHSR route everywhere I could in 2 days. Grab the cooler, a 12-pack of Cokes, and some snacks because we're taking a road trip, baby!
In this first episode of the California High Speed Rail Road Trip, we'll check out the route as best we can between Anaheim in Orange County and Bakersfield in Kern County. But this isn't just dash footage. I'm checking out stations. I'm looking up facts. I'm giving you insight into what is being planned and where.
And that's not all! There are two more to go after this one: The Central Valley and Central Valley to Silicon Valley into San Francisco.
There are a lot of interesting things to see in the big, beautiful state of California, train-wise and other wise, so throw a couple of changes of clothes in a backpack and jump in the passenger seat!
Music by: Silent Partner
Image Attribution:
Artbyd.jpg by Andy
creativecommons.org/licenses/...
If you like the content and like talking about it, check out the Lucid Group Discord Server: / discord
Chapters:
0:00 Hey, It's Your Old Pal Lucid Stew Again
0:16 ARTIC in Anaheim, CA
2:16 Anaheim to Los Angeles Union Station
7:07 Los Angeles Union Station
8:26 Los Angeles Union Station to Hollywood/Burbank Airport
9:55 Hollywood/Burbank Airport
10:38 Hollywod/Burbank Airport to Palmdale
14:18 Palmdale
14:48 Palmdale to Bakersfield
18:25 Bakersfield
21:43 Conclusion and Preview of Day 2
22:15 See You On That Big, Beautiful Freeway!
Topics:
CAHSR
California High Speed Rail
Phase 1
Road Trip
Southern California
Anaheim
ARTIC
Orange County
State Route 57
Santa Ana River
Platinum Triangle
Angel Stadium
Honda Center
The Grove
Anaheim Convention Center
Disneyland
Disney California Adventure
OC Vibe
State College Blvd.
Ball Rd.
Orangthorpe Ave.
Central Valley
OCbus
ART bus
Metrolink
Amtrak Pacific Surfliner
CAHSR Authority
Los Angeles Union Station
Fullerton
BNSF Southern Transcon
Fullerton Station
Buena Park Metrolink Station
Ionic Columns
Santa Fe Springs
Rosecrans and Marquart
Caltrain
San Jose
San Francisco
Diridon Station
Auto Zone
Fix A Flat
Norwalk
Norwalk/Santa Fe Springs Transportation Center
Railfanning
City of Commerce
Vernon
BNSF Hobart Yard
L.A. River
U.S. 101 Freeway
Link Union Station
L.A. Metro
Metrolink Central Maintenance Facility
Mission Tower Bridge
San Fernando Road
Glendale
Glendale Station
Graffiti Train
Burbank
Burbank Station
Hollywood/Burbank Airport
Union Pacific
Sun Valley Station
Sunland Blvd.
Penrose St.
San Fernando Valley
Sheldon St.
Whiteman Airport
Antelope Valley
Pacoima Canyon
Soledad Canyon
Santa Clarita
Santa Clarita River
State Route 14
Bee Canyon
Agua Dulce
Acton
Lake Palmdale
Palmdale
Palmdale Transportation Center
High Desert Corridor
Brightline West
Lockheed Martin Skunkworks
East Branch California Aqueduct
Sierra Highway
Rosamond
Tehachapi Willow Springs Road
Lancaster
Tehachapi
State Route 58
Tehachapi Loop
Edison
Bakersfield
Golden State Ave.
Garlock Fault
San Joaquin Valley
Bakersfield Amtrak Station
Motel 6
F St.
Chester Ave.
San Francisco - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
ATTN: Just a heads up, I misread the new EIS slightly. The video covers alternative SR14 Refined, which used to be the preferred alternative. They changed that to SR14A, which is very similar to SR14 Refined, except at 13:20 where it goes into the tunnel, it will stay there until the Palmdale area instead of crossing the freeway on viaduct at 13:27. Cost on that change is a mystery because I have different amounts from two different charts released by the CAHSRA in April 2024, but it should be somewhere between equal ($22.4B in 2018$) to $3 billion more ($25.3B in 2018$). BTW, that's roughly $30-35 billion with inflation in any sort of year they could dream to actually build it.
l would prefer a better route from Bakersfield to Santa Clarita. l do not see the benefit of the cost and time of going to Palmdale. A study by Clem Tiller in 2014 and supported by Alon Levy indicated 20-25 miles of tunnels with the longest being 6 miles.
@@davidjackson7281 I’ve seen that same study, and for a long time I too was in favor of their routing via Tejon, with a Bakersfield perimeter station, than CHSRA’s over Tehachapi and via Palmdale. It seemed like a big detour for ridership that would be better served by increased regional rail service (Metrolink).
But as time went on, I warmed up more and more to the Palmdale routing, if for nothing else than the potential to connect with HSR to Las Vegas, as well as the AV being one of the fastest growing regions for SoCal and it having a 30-minute HSR ride between Palmdale and LA, a huge improvement over driving and current rail. Plus, you know, CHSRA is pretty much committed to that route at this point, and Palmdale does give it an early rail connection to LA through Metrolink, which itself is a big improvement over the current bus bridge, maybe not time wise but certainly capacity and quality of a train over a thruway bus, as well as the train being less impacted by weather that could slow or even stop traffic on Grapevine.
Thank you Lucid for doing a trip to show the HSR route. It makes some of what's planned seem more realistic. Honestly, I've complained on various channels that somebody needed to do an update showing how much has been completed; as well as, what still needs to be completed before HSR starts operating in the initial operating segment.
The Four Foot had done so via drone footage as a massive project that he did two years ago.
You bet. We'll see lots of different things being worked on in the Central Valley Bakersfield-Merced in the next video. Format will be very similar. Probably a few more renders in the next one. There won't be an exhaustive list of things done and left to finish(there are too many to film and too many are alike), but it should be fun to watch. I think there's something to be said for the one-the-ground format for looking at the many giant structures.
Every highway has bridges and tunnels that have and continue to cost billions of taxpayer dollars and folks don’t complain. This is such a needed project to provide an alternative.
That said - it seems like there could be blasting and earth moving done rather than tunnelling - or a different routing that reducing the need.
They can’t spend billions on a train from Merced to Bakersfield and not finish it to LA and SF - the question is ^how^.
@@rebeccawinter472Whenever you see a decision that doesn’t make sense, either from a budget or a usability standpoint, in a modern project in California, it was usually done to appease some group of wealthy or politically influential folks-usually suburban NIMBYs. 7 at-grade crossings in Anaheim when that’ll slow it down to a crawl-that areas Corpos were afraid the noise of an HS train running AT high speed would harm the ambience at their valuable entertainment venues. The viaduct in Bakersfield? Car-centric NIMBYs who would rather a massive viaduct than yielding any lanes of their beloved roads. And the state deciding it will be cheaper to just do that more expensive option than to fight them all in court and their representatives in the state legislature.
@@spewmuffinWonder where he went, was really enjoying his updates
The 13-mile tunnel itself sounds like a 20-year project.
which one? :D
It took 6 years to build the channel tunnel, which is about 3 times as long and was built over 30 years ago. It should take less than 5 years, but this is CASHR…
@@rickyl7231 CHSRA's projections say up to six years for the 13.5-mile Pacheco Pass tunnel once construction begins, so it's a matter of how quickly it gets full funding. The Channel Tunnel likely had much greater political support, and thus funding, than CAHSR has. Much of the reason why things are taking so long on CAHSR has been the lack of committed funding, but that's long been known.
@@ChrisJones-gx7fc I don't remember details, unfortunately, but I think that one also had quite a bit of financial trouble.
@@rickyl7231 The big dig in Boston took 16 years to complete, and it's just 1.5 miles.
grandkids railfanning with their avatars is a fever dream I don't wanna have
Well, what else are they going to do? Leave the pod?!
@@LucidStew Virtual Railfan stuff?
The voice-over on the drive from Burbank to Palmdale, then to Bakersfield was somehow so much more helpful than maps and digital flyovers to get an intuitive feel for what this segment will involve. Thanks so much, Lucid Stew - you deserve 50x the views you get.
Thanks! Yeah, driving it and seeing the whole thing in-situ made a big difference in my perception of the project. I was hoping to transfer some of that via the video.
And I will be dead long before that! 😄
Great video. So thorough and I love the accompanying map tracings.
Great video! After watching I’m more confident than ever this will never get done in my lifetime, my kids lifetime and maybe unborn grandkids lifetimes. 🤷🏼♂️
Great vid. That's a TON of driving! It is really nice hearing you explain the path from the perspective of the freeway. Gives a much better visualization than from satellite maps alone.
This was just a little baby warm-up compared to some other trips I've taken. :) Wait 'til we get to the Central Valley portion. I think you get a much better sense of the large scale of things when everything is normal-sized in comparison. There's a lot to be said for drone shots or satellite imagery, but you lose some relatability when cement trucks look like toys and things like that.
@@LucidStewI attended UC Merced from 2013-17, and last time I was up there visiting last year I drove home via 43 to see some of the HSR construction, and it’s honestly really exciting to see it taking shape and becoming more and more tangible. Next time I head up that way I’ll be sure to take 43 again to see the latest progress.
Anyone who says nothing’s happening is either blissfully ignorant of how high speed rail is built, or is being fed and just loves spreading disinformation, when all one needs to do is drive 43 and 99 between Bakersfield and Fresno to see a number of structures and miles of guideway taking shape, or just go on TH-cam to find all the drone videos of progress happening.
The good news is I live fairly close to the Bakersfield station. The bad news is that I'll be 80 when the station opens.
Could be as soon as 7 years! You should see construction on that section about this time next year, although I'd bet that probably starts in Shafter first.
@@LucidStew given that received $200 million for grade separations, I'd say that's a pretty good certainty. Construction on those will likely begin in 2025. Tracks and systems should begin being installed on the 119 miles in early 2025 as well.
This is very daring work, amazingly ambitious, love it
5:28 Lucid making sacrifices in the pursuit of truth
Haha, you don't even know. I went BACK to L.A. yesterday and filled in the areas I missed because of that dumb tire.
Thanks Lucid! And congrats on the milestone! I think dropping the interim stops makes total sense given they’re served by the regional rail provider. HSR can serve Burbank Airport - LA-Union - ARCTIC. That’s enough methinks. I don’t know about the 70km/h speed tho - that’s just wrong. They need to introduce some grade separations somehow. Even if it’s a single track viaduct for a 1 or 2 mile stretch, it may limit capacity on the south end for trains going to Anaheim - but that’s okay I think. It should be workable with scheduling trains appropriately.
In terms of the lack of grade separation in Anaheim, that is last mile stuff, so it shouldn't make an enormous difference. I think its mainly from not deviating from the route(really only happens at Norwalk Transpo Center and Hobart Yard area) combined with only expanding by one track Fullerton to LAUS, with BNSF still being able to use that extra track.
@@LucidStew interesting how CHSRA proposes that deviation at Norwalk, I guess to leave room for a potential future infill station, which would be the only intermediate station that makes sense between LA and Anaheim, and only after LA Metro extends the C Line there for the one-seat ride to LAX (plus the APM to the terminals).
Apart from it being required in Prop 1A, and for the potential one-seat ride between OC and NorCal, I don't think CAHSR needs to go past LA, and it could just be increased Amtrak and Metrolink OC Line service instead. If you live south of Anaheim you'd need to transfer anyway, and LAUS is maybe just a better place to do it, especially if the travel time on CAHSR would be the same as Amtrak/Metrolink.
Oh so thats why that transit center is so elaborate. Every time I drive by it, I just think "wow, this is kinda a lot for a bus station"
With the way they're planning L.A. to Anaheim now its going to be a lot for CAHSR, too. :\
Great video! It really puts into perspective the terrain that it will have to traverse through.
Yeah, finally! Future generations will greatly benefit from this.
California High-Speed Rail proposed building the Bakersfield Station near the current Amtrak station and Bakersfield Convention Center but the city of Bakersfield strongly opposed this. Instead Bakersfield presented their local plan which enters the city from the north instead of the west and builds the station at a site they prefer away from current infrastructure
Also I think building to the current infrastructure the hsr alignment would have had to demolish alot of homes
I'm not advocating a particular course of action, but if that were the hinderance it seems dubious in light of an entire neighborhood being bisected not that long ago to connect SR 58 through town.
Yeah that’s an important thing to know, that this routing choice had namely to do with the City of Bakersfield and not CHSRA. That’s why it’s called the Locally Generated Alternative (LGA). It’ll be interesting to see it pulled off. I’m fairly certain the HSR tracks will end at Chester Ave, to be extended later out of the city and over Tehachapi Pass to Palmdale and down to LA.
CHSRA’s next priority is reaching SF, then LA, so Bakersfield will remain the southern terminus for quite a while, at least until the mid to late 2030s. I know for a fact SoCal will not be cool letting HSR end in Bakersfield, and will push to at least get it to Palmdale as quickly as possible to connect with Metrolink. It’d be interesting to explore the feasibility of electrifying the AV Line for HSR trains to share as an interim route, so they can reach LA sooner and start running one-seat SF-LA service while CHSRA funds and builds its Palmdale-LA segment, which if I had to guess will be the last segment of Phase 1 built (and it will be built, it’s just a matter of when). Originally CAHSR’s plans were to build Merced-Burbank/LA first, but now it’s Bakersfield-SF, and that’ll likely stay the case but it probably depends on funding opportunities, and that priority could potentially change again.
In a perfect world both the San Jose and Palmdale extensions will be funded and built simultaneously, so when HSR trains first reach SF they also reach the LA regional rail connection. Eliminating the current I-5 bus bridge should be just as important as a faster travel option between the Central Valley and the Bay Area, and should funding stop/dry up indefinitely, it does allow a somewhat complete system with the all-rail journey, and as I said sharing an electrified AV Line, while far from a perfect solution, does at least allow one-seat LA-SF service that’d still be competitive with driving and even flying, the latter at least for convenience and comfort.
@@LucidStew the main objection seemed to be that California High-Speed Rail preferred alternative would pass very close to Bakersfield central high school which is on the edge of the main Bakersfield freight yard. Bakersfield held up approval of the environmental report for years and proposed the Locally Generated Alternative that the CAHSR staff recommended accepting. Bakersfield is an oil town and reluctant to approve an electric rail station
F Street in Bakersfield used to have streetcars running down it. That’s why it’s so wide.
But the city definitely wants to improve downtown in lieu of HSR. Check out the high speed rail station plan document they put out.
Also you can thank NIMBYs for the HSR station not being at the current Amtrak station.
Fresno also had streetcars, and there were proposals back in maybe the mid 2000s to build a modern network there. Hopefully it can come to fruition, for both cities to have modern streetcar/light rail networks linking their HSR stations to downtown and other destinations.
Lucid Stew should have mentioned that the tracks from Anaheim (actually, Oceanside) to Fullerton are owned by Metrolink. Metrolink also owns the tracks from Hobart Jct., over the L.A. River, into LAUS, and then all the way to Lancaster. The hard part is Hobart to Fullerton. Not only does BNSF run a never-ending flood of freight trains through here, but the line is spotted with curves that even passenger trains cannot round at speeds above 70-75 MPH. In addition, the tracks from LAUS to Glendale have sharp curves while following the L.A. River. That's why CA HSR is speed-limited from Burbank to Anaheim.
That BNSF corridor needs significant investment in capacity expansion. It is so important for freight rail and needs more space for reliable passenger rail.
@@PASH3227 - Agreed. It was only 2 tracks until Metrolink finished adding a third track all the way past Riverside for the Orange and 91 lines. But now, adding a fourth main track is going to involve substantial engineering work.
Wow! This was a lot of work. Thanks very much for posting it.
I use to commute to Bakersfield from Lancaster/Palmdale so that section of the hsr is so interesting to me!
Wow, really? That's pretty far. You could do worse in terms of scenery, though. Did you just take 14 to 58 or did you have a secret route?
18:30 60-foot stilts is one way to avoid utility relocation.
every cloud has a silver lining
It's ironically probably the cheapest option.. I know in Vancouver with the skytrain those segments were often built the fastest and cheapest... Even here in Edmonton (Go Oilers!) the Valley Line LRT has piers and bridges constructed years in advance of West extension of it and most of them were pre-cast off site and lifted/bolted/cemented/welded into place to save time and noise in the area... Plus the alternative proved to be a nightmare with major fixes needed for all those which were poured conventionally in place due to temp flux related cracking... After all Edmonton now sees weather that ranges from -40c to almost +40c...
I really want them to end up building the station at the Norwalk / SFS Metrolink site. LA Metro just has to connect a 2.8 mile gap from the C line's Norwalk terminus and the CAHSR would have a direct transit connection to LAX.
They haven't written it off completely. They going to do the environmental work for both dropped stations. I'm guessing they're anticipating pressure to put them back in. The Powerpoint doc does say though, that if they add any back in, they're only adding one.
If Metro ever actually extends the C Line to Norwalk/Santa Fe Springs, that is. Such should have been built 30 years ago, although wasn't apparently due to heavy opposition by the city of Norwalk. Supposedly Norwalk is more flexible now, but it's in a giant pile of "here's a project with no funding so maybe we will build it around 2050".
@@Geotpf hopefully it gets moved way up the list of priorities. The benefit of having that direct connection between LAX and two Metrolink lines is huge, although given it would primarily benefit Orange County, not LA County, maybe that’s why it hasn’t been a high priority.
Like you said, there was a serious proposal to build that extension back in the 90s, either underground or aerial, but it ran into fierce opposition from the City of Norwalk, and by the time the city warmed up to the idea Metro said it was too late. I’m pretty sure the city is still open to the idea, but there’d need to be funding found elsewhere to make it happen anytime soon, as potential Measure M funds would take too long. Hopefully that funding can be found and that extension finished by the 2030s. It just seems too easy to stay missing. Build the aerial alignment along Studebaker and Imperial Highway, with potential intermediate stops at Norwalk Blvd and maybe Firestone Blvd.
I was really impressed with your ability to show very quickly small segments of the route on a map so as not to be able to tell where the hell that was at all.
It's between L.A. and Bakersfield, which is in the title. You can run the video at 1/4 speed if you need to and there's this thing called Google Maps where you can fill in the blanks.
great job! thank you!
This is cool. I think as much elevated rail near Bakerfield will be great- will keep the tweakers away from the train folks as they won't be bothered (mostly) to climb up onto the platforms. Really makes a lot of sense to put them up high coz otherwise there'd be deaths every day... and that'd just be depressing.
I really wish that CHSR would be completed by the 2028 LA Olympics. If construction started in the 2000s and continued without significant delays and the project had full funding then it could have been done by then. At this point, phase one is unlikely to be done even before 2040
Realistically to be in place for the Olympics, it would have needed to be on the ballot 4 years earlier with a solid funding plan. We kind of jumped into the deep end with a leaky floaty.
@@LucidStew it will be ready for the next to next LA Olympics (in 2060?).
@@goldenbear7156 They might aim for a centennial like Paris did. 2084 is a reasonable expectation for completion of Phase 2 at the going rate.
Fantastic video. I'm going to watch the Central Valley video now as well. -Fred : )
Thank you Fred!!! 👍
"Viaduct?"
"What do you mean, viaduct"
"Why a duck? Why not a pigeon?"
Cool work, bro.
I've seen CHSRA's route through the Antelope Valley, and I'm really trying to figure out why it's going the way it is. From the north, it goes under Avenue H and crosses the UP tracks to be on the east side of them through Lancaster, then at around Avenue K it crosses back over the tracks to occupy where Sierra Highway is at now, and uses that right of way pretty much the rest of the way to Palmdale, wiping out every building along the way. That'll of course require the complete realignment of Sierra Highway to the west, where rather than parallel the new HSR alignment it'll go out toward some neighborhoods then come back toward the HSR tracks and over them where the current crossing is at now to rejoin the current roadway alignment. In Palmdale, the HSR tracks will occupy where 6th Street is at now, then south of town they'll go back over the UP/SCRRA tracks on a viaduct and to the east of Una Lake. The entire HSR guideway, up until the viaduct south of Palmdale, is shown to be at grade.
Fun stuff. Looks like its because of the Skunkworks.
@@LucidStewthe other thing too is in Bakersfield, looking at CHSRA’s route choice, the viaduct will go over the top of Edison Highway, meaning the road will be under the guideway for the entire length of it between Weedpatch Hwy and Oswell Street, where the HSR alignment will start to very slightly diverge to the south side of Edison Hwy, then go over the top of Sumner Street to just past Baker Street, then curve north to go between Golden State Blvd and the UP tracks to reach the Bakersfield station. There’s an animation video of CHSRA’s proposed Bakersfield-Palmdale alignment from 2015 on their TH-cam channel.
I think the reason they have to go on viaduct through here for the entire length, rather than say traveling at grade in the space between Edison Hwy and the UP tracks, is because there are several rail spur tracks along that distance, including that connection with the San Joaquin Valley RR, that cross the highway, making it infeasible to place HSR tracks there and thus they must stay above ground the entire way. As for why they would build the guideway above Edison Hwy, putting it in permanent shade, that’s tougher to say. Maybe it was decided that there wasn’t ample room for the viaduct structure between the highway and existing tracks, and they didn’t want to demolish any structures that they didn’t have to, although west of Oswell where the tracks will go to the south side of Edison Hwy there are a number of structures that’ll likely be demolished anyway. Maybe it was just compromise between CHSRA and the City of Bakersfield, similar to the choice of the F Street station location rather than the downtown Amtrak one.
Great location for the ARCTIC.👍
Great video! Sorry you had to travel to Bakersfield though 😂
Normally when driving out to the Central Valley like this I stay at the Motel 6 in Buttonwillow. In hindsight, maybe I should have done that. :D
It'll be funny if CaHSR gets to Palmdale, and Brightline West builds the High Desert Corridor, enabling travel from the Central Valley section of CaHSR to Las Vegas long before CaHSR makes it to LA...
That is kind of an interesting possibility because Palmdale-Burbank will be very tough to fund and may be the last part of Phase 1 built.
That may benefit CA HSR more than Bightline West. E.g. Inland Empire to SF. Not exactly the most direct route, but at least it would be through service to Downtown SF.
@@LucidStew it'd be interesting to explore the feasibility of electrifying the AV Line and having CAHSR share it as an interim route until their own route to LA is complete, maybe with new Metrolink EMU service and the benefits that would provide similar to Caltrain.
@@johnhblaubachea5156 Oh, yeah. I got tunnel vision and was only thinking in terms of Palmdale. Rancho To S.F. that way would be about 3h30m, which is VASTLY better than the 9-10 hours transit takes now.
It would be an absolute scream if Brightline's LV to RC is such a raving success that they manage to access the 101 or I-5 ROW and shoot straight from LA to SF decades before phase 1's completion. Not going to happen, but it's fun to think about.
A road intersection with 3 'High Speed Rail' tracks running diagonally across them! Wow,; that's like super-at-grade-crossings. Glad you survived the motel.
Well, they made sure they handled that intersection a good generation or two before they can use it, so no worries now.
Thanks for doing this.
As a Glendalian, I’m disappointed that CA HSR is going to bypass the Glendale train station, but I’m looking forward to the completion of the project.
I'd say something here about the possibility of running regional service on the electrified tracks at some point, but they kind of have to build the express portion first, and that may be a while...
me as well, although taking metrolink when score will be complete wont be bad and will actually be less of a headache than US in dtla
I drive that 58 freeway from bartsow area to the 99 going all the way back to fresno like every other day in my semi ...you mayhave got me in your video 📹
Is there an easy way to identify your truck?
Goat channel bro
Wow what a trip 😃I really want to be positive about this project, but it's hard to see how all of it can be funded and built, especially all of those tunnels leaving Los Angeles and Bakersfield's endless elevated section 😁
I got a real appreciation for the scale of this project driving it. That made me appreciate the work done so far, but it also made me think the concept as a whole is slightly unhinged. This may be more than we can chew.
@@LucidStew There's an old saying. "How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time."
The slow speed from Anaheim-Union reminds me of how weird it is that some LA Metro trains have to stop for red lights at grade crossings!
Really. Where's that?
@@LucidStew namely going through downtown LA. The trains don't have signal priority, so they sometimes have to wait for cars at the intersection. It's a common complaint among Metro riders, among the safety and cleanliness issues although those are pretty inherent of transit across the country.
It makes the recently opened Regional Connector, which cuts an underground path through downtown and turned three separate light rail lines into two combined ones, with the A (former Blue) Line connecting Long Beach with Azusa (soon North Pomona), and E (former Gold) Line between Santa Monica and East LA, into a bit of a bottleneck, with trains getting bunched up and causing delays, which with such long rail lines can cause scheduling problems.
Good news is, at least to my knowledge, LA Metro and the City of LA are working to change the signals to give the trains priority at intersections.
Nah the best stop on high speed rail will be in San Francisco, & Fresno. It’s not going to Anaheim anytime soon. 😅
Well, let me get to the San Francisco portion of the trip first! :D I didn't get to spend a LOT of time at Salesforce Transit Center, but I did enjoy hanging out there.
Bakersfield looks and feels like a ghost town thanks to those massively oversized roads. I’m sure there are dozens of people living there, but you can’t tell. It’s just miles of empty concrete.
This is just wild speculation on my part since I've spent a total of about 36 hours in the place in my life, but I think most people living in the suburbs probably don't bother going downtown.
I wouldn't call it "living"
@@LucidStewI live here, and you would be correct. Bakersfield grew too fast, and there is a lot of sprawl here. This whole town is stroad purgatory. Downtown badly needs to be redeveloped.
@@tonyarmbrust which hopefully HSR will help encourage. It'd be great to see the city also build a streetcar/light rail system that connects the HSR station to downtown and a couple other places, effectively rebuilding the original streetcar lines. Fresno should do the same, as it too once had a pretty extensive network.
@@ChrisJones-gx7fc It would be wonderful if that would happen. Bakersfield's main arterial roads are long, straight, and wide, and would be ideal for a streetcar. But, the city council is so risk adverse to any idea that would make the city better. And too many people in this town would scream about having their property taxes raised to pay for it.
I used to live in Rosamond back in the late 80s and early 90s. My brother was born in Lancaster because there was no hospital in Rosamond and our family also did grocery shopping in Lancaster
I live in Burbank. Burbank airport is my favorite, as it’s super easy to get in and out of it. The new terminal is going to ruin that.
As someone from Bakersfield, you’re right on the money about our Downtown. It’s missing people walking and general life, as the roads are very car centric and unnecessary. I am hoping that our Downtown gets revitalized and goes through a road diet as many new roads in Bakersfield neighborhoods are built with painted bike lanes. Not the best but better than nothing. Downtown Bako has seen some improvements as far as city life and apartments, but needs a makeover.
I don't even know if it needs a road diet so much as the roads simply need to be used better. It seems like there is a lot of excess capacity around there that could be put to other uses. There's not much reason to have 4 traffic lanes when there isn't even enough traffic to fill 2. It does sound like you're getting bus lanes on Chester, eventually. What I'm skeptical of is activity and development expanding beyond the CAHSR station site. And I'm even more skeptical that will help downtown when the city is set on developing around the station. Driving around, there seemed to be a lot of urban renewal gimmicks employed(like the riverwalk thing), and it seems like the city is determined to double down on those rather than admit that they're silly ideas. I'm really hoping the CAHSR station doesn't end up as yet another one.
Great presentation!
The proposed Bakersfield HSR station is near the main city bus garage. Neither station site is well situated for downtown BFD, mostly for historical reasons. When Southern Pacific came through over 100 years ago, they tried to make everyone move to land owned by "The Octopus", a placed called "Sumner." In fact, the Bakersfield streetcar simply connected the SP station with downtown Bakersfield. ATSF tried to be friendlier, and that's about where the existing Amtrak station is. At least, there will be a lot of redevelopment potential around the new station.
Ah, I thought I drove past a building on Sumner that looked like an abandoned train station, but I forgot to look it up when I got back. Unfortunately that's not really in a great spot either. One spot that looks halfway decent downtown along the BNSF ROW is between D and H, but it is decided now...
Bakersfield's current plan ahead of the CaHSR station is called Making Downtown Bakersfield. Their plan mirrors what you suggested: bus lanes on Chester, street improvements, infill development, even a park with a bike trail underneath the train viaduct. It's a super cool plan they've got going on. I only wish they weren't going through with their plan to viaduct directly over Old Town Kern.
If nothing else, it'll be a pretty sweet ride up to Fresno
I have my doubts about plowing under a significant part of the city and turning it into a park. It reminds me of what you might do to improve things in SimCity, and I think reality is slightly more complex. All this development is supposed to spring up around the station even though it'll be on the other side of the freeway that Golden State Ave. will become. And lets say that does occur. I see no reason why that would lift downtown with it instead of leeching tenants from there because one area will be "new" and the other will not.
@@LucidStew Agree 100%.
So is that ARTIC building doing anything other than looking big? I want to say they electrified up here in the SF Bay area to get ready for HSR but they also used that to transition Caltrain off diesel and into electric locos. So in 2135 when CAHSR finally gets finished at least they will have gotten some use over the electrification of the route.
They have bus service, Amtrak, and regional rail service there. One train showed up while I was there. About 30 people got off that. Other than that, there were maybe 10 people there in 20 minutes? The emptiness of the clips mostly sums up my experience there around 9-9:30AM.
I think Caltrain was looking to electrify anyway. It was convenient for CAHSR to give them some money to do some of the work ahead of time when the Authority still thought CAHSR would reach S.F. this decade.
It is convenient to go to Angels and Ducks games as it is within walking distance of the stadiums for each. The main problem with that is that this station is the only one not served by either the 91/Perris line or the IEOC line, so it's not useful for Riverside, Corona, Perris, or San Bernardino residents to get to a game, without special game day trains or a transfer.
The station itself is way over built for what limited service it gets, just the Metrolink OC Line, the Pacific Surfliner, and buses.
I guess they figured, if we build they will come, and eventually we'll build other destinations around it?
If you’ve seen early renderings for the Anaheim HSR station you’d see this isn’t even the full buildout. Not sure how much of those are still in the current plans though. You gotta admit though that what’s there now is pretty impressive, even if its usefulness is about what it was before this new station was built.
@@johnhblaubachea5156 there’ve been proposals to redevelop the area around Angel Stadium, as well as north and west of the station, replacing most of the parking lots with dense housing, shops and restaurants, and much more walkable space. It’d honestly be great to see happen. Right now that area feels so barren with all the parking.
Hey, the important thing is: regardless of how it appears, Bakersfield is no longer #1 in murder rate. So the HSR station will just be inconvenient, not dangerous. Okay, less dangerous.
looking on the bright side!
Hey man, great video. Love your content. Can you do a video on what projects might be selected in the upcoming grant money expected for the NEC. Which ones have hype or money behind them already. Amd which ones could increase the speed the most on the coordidor that haven’t received backing yet
Thanks! There will probably be something like that during grant season, although it may naturally fold into Stew's News.
Wow! This is great information and I appreciate the visual of where the HSR train will be going.
Yeah the Bakersfield station site is kind of a weird location. I assume that was the city's choice but I don't know why. The current Amtrak site is more convenient to downtown and would have likely had more impact on the city's depressing downtown.
The Fresno and Madera stations sites are right in their downtowns and are the centerpiece of downtown revitalization plans. God knows all of the Central Valley cities cities desperately need revitalization. HSR is the most dramatic change these downtowns will have seen in over 50 years when I-5 circumvented them. I hope HSR can deliver that promise otherwise I just don't know what else can for these once vibrant but now decades-long neglected cities.
The Bakersfield City Council mainly seemed to object to California High-Speed Rail being adjacent to Bakersfield central highschool. This got very bad press and public outcry.
@@DexterBachman That's crazy. The Amtrak station is almost a mile away and there is already a very busy and massive freight rail yard literally right next to the high school. They could probably kick a football into the rail yard. They really missed an opportunity to bring much needed life into their stagnant downtown.
So wait, you're saying they're going to electrify rails that are already at ground level? I'm sure that totally won't be a problem, lol. Wow
That is correct. There will be a few new grade separations through Anaheim, but most will remain as is. You'll see more of that(quite a bit more) in the Gilroy-San Jose area in the 3rd video in the series, landing in 9 days.
I recently spent a week in Lille, France. They have shared bike and bus lanes, which I don't remember seeing in any other city. Maybe Bakersfield could do that.
Lille is one of the big inspirations for Bakersfield's redevelopment plans.
@@LucidStew well then you should go check it out yourself. 😉
They do appear in occasionally here in Germany. Both Mainz and Wiesbaden are guilty of them.
@@MarioFanGamer659 Danke dafür.
Cool. More route renders please too.
This is a special event. Regular rendered programming will return next month. I'll probably also sneak a few into the next 2 videos as well.
Last I heard, the projected cost will be $133 billion. Right now, you can get a plane at Burbank and go to San Francisco in a couple of hours.
This would be nice if it ever gets constructed. It appears brightline will be up and running years before california builds this. The problem with trains is all their stops. Imagine a trip from la to San Francisco and the plane stops at every airport.
A completed CAHSR Phase 1 would have both express and local services.
ive been here a couple times live in oregon love artic
I took high speed rail once in France . Nice but boring and because it wasn't direct to where i really needed to go it became a long journey . I took the faster slow train home because it stopped where i need it to .
Ultimately it is just a fast train. Ideally a lot of people would be able to make good use of it.
Thanks for the detailed video. Big fan of high speed rail.
Thank you for the info on the new high speed railway. I learned a lot. I am a transplant from LA to Bakersfield and im curious what day and time did you come through Bakersfield? Believe me we need all the lanes that we have in downtown Bakersfield. Of all the nice Hotels that we have in Bakersfield and some right there in Downtown why would you stay at a motel 6? Just curious. Bakersfield isn’t perfect but it’s a nice place to live. I am glad someone took the time to do this video so thank you it is much needed. You just seem to be a little negative when describing a small part of the city. 😊
I was in the downtown area between about 6 and 8pm. Most of the video is between 6 and 7. Motel 6 was to try to do the video as cheaply as possible. The critique of Bakersfield is an attempt to give an honest appraisal of HSR through there, not of the city in general. I didn't visit the suburban part of town at all because its not directly relevant to the station or any redevelopment attempts that the station might encourage. In my opinion the city's plans for, around, and in conjunction with the station site will not be successful in the long term and could be detrimental to the downtown area. That could be counterproductive to what a project like this should be trying to accomplish, which is to move people effectively and encourage growth of density in order to avoid further sprawl.
@@LucidStew Thank you for replying to my comment and it does make since. I also agree with you as far as where the station will be. From I can tell from your video, that area is where our now transit bus system headquarters is located . I did hear that those offices would be relocating in a few years. Very interesting 🤔 Again thank you for the video. I will be sharing.
Man that Anaheim section seems awful for 6.7 billion to only average 40ish mph
That's why they are only going to finish the Central Valley portion and connect it to the silicon valley electrification by means of tunneling through the Pacheco Pass. The rest is pretty much impossible now that inflation has made it too expensive due to inflation and increased land acquisition costs. So Cal is going to be left behind.
Unfortunately they won't be doing much beyond grade separating most of it.
A portion of the route between Anaheim and Los Angeles Union Station is owned by freight railroad. California High-Speed Rail proposed moving the freight yard served by the line to the Ontario area and negotiated for several years. Due to strong opposition in that area the need for sharing the right of way with freight will be retained. The electrified California High-Speed Rail tracks will be shared with other slower passenger trains. This as well as the retention of vehicle grade crossings will greatly limit speeds and frequency
Wait you mean we're NOT gonna make the LA-SF trip any faster than Amtrak & we are spending 700BILLION of other people's money for this?
@@DexterBachman it's going from four trains per hour to two trains per hour, and the speeds will be virtually identical to the current Amtrak Pacific Surfliner service. Chances are the grade crossings will have quad gates similar to those being installed on the Caltrain corridor.
Are they actually going to tunnel through the San Andreas Fault as the route approaches Palmdale?
Its above ground at the major faults
The Anaheim spur will see few trains, has a ton of at grade crossings, and sounds like it will be slower than existing Metrolink or Amtrak service. Why bother?
If politically possible, eliminate it completely and just use the existing Metrolink/Amtrak LOSSAN corridor servuce to get people from the OC to Union Station. Maybe see if you can upgrade the existing corridor from 79 MPH to 110 MPH and add more frequency and call it a day.
They seem pretty intent on spending $6 billion instead.
If you need any electric CalTrain pictures or videos let me know. Great video Lucid Stew!
I got some at Diridon while I was there, but yeah, I could probably use more at some point.
The other question is, will San Francisco still be there when the thing is finished! 😂
You mean like it might burn to the ground again after a major earthquake?
@@LucidStew More like a ghost town from all the businesses leaving.
I sure hope that’s not the same stopped stack train shown at Buena park and Norwalk!
I don't think so, but given the delay by the flattening tire, its not impossible.
I am a Bakersfield resident and Downtown just isn’t the center of activity anymore. Not to mention the homeless problem being out of control now. North and South West are the commercial centers of interest.
So each 10k subs we can visit another HSR coridor drive on the big beautiful highway
😅
thank u brothr
Wow this video does a great job of explaining why the Bakersfield station is just in the worst place possible. God lord.
oh god, lucid stew was actually in fresno, dangerously close... dangerously so...
Good service at the In N Out on Blackstone.
No problem. Multiple miles long tunnels across the San Andreas, the Garlock faults and countless others. Must be awhile since the last big earthquake in LA.
The route will be above ground while crossing major faults.
@@LucidStew That's better, I guess!
7:08 "Aladema" Street??? I know what you mean but that's a good one.
So this means we will see bnsf trains sharing tracks with CAHSR under wires? If so that is pretty cool
That is the current preferred alternative. Not sure how often they'd use both electrified tracks, but obviously they make use of all 3 current tracks.
7:22 is that sped up? If not that acceleration is insane
Yes, that is 2.3X normal speed
How many high speed rail planners have ever driven through the entire route???
While making the trip, I concluded the number was zero. 😄
Curious what is the anticipated final completion date and budget?
There is none. Budget is currently approximately $120 billion, but if they can't say when it will be done, they can't very well say how much it will cost.
@@LucidStew That is pretty crazy if you ask me. All the infrastructure projects I have worked on in the past, we had a budget and timeline, even approximated, that we were working towards.
@@paulayala4816 They used to have one, but they quit doing that a few years back. In 2020, Phase 1 was supposed to be done by 2033 at a cost of about $80 billion. However, this is far from possible and for political reasons the CAHSR Authority doesn't want to own up to the ultimate reality of the situation.
They do have cost estimates for Phase 1, ranging from a current low of $89 billion to a high of $128 billion. As far as a timeline goes, they’ve long made it known that depends on how quickly funding is secured. The sooner the project gets funded, the faster it can happen. Their current objective is getting the initial Central Valley segment between Merced and Bakersfield operational by 2030-33. Next is reaching SF, which they estimate it’ll take up to six years to complete the 13.5 mile tunnel through Pacheco Pass. Once SF-Bakersfield service begins, then they’ll turn south toward Palmdale and LA/Anaheim. That’s all based on current and projected future funding opportunities.
If somewhere down the road they get a major stream of steady, committed funding, even just a small fraction of the annual freeway budget, then maybe they can get more ambitious with their schedule and start spending it to prepare segments for construction and get construction underway on both the SF and LA extensions simultaneously. That may sound like asking a lot, but given we spent more on Caltrans last year alone ($18.4 billion) than the entire amount spent on HSR thus far ($12-13 billion), we can more than afford to put more money into HSR if we want to, and are willing to commit to actually getting HSR done and as quickly as possible.
It’s just a matter of how committed we are to making it happen, and if we’re willing to break our near total dependency on cars. That goes beyond HSR to include all forms of transit, local, regional and intercity.
@@ChrisJones-gx7fc I'm not a fan of the HSR, it is a lot of money you, me, our kids, and grandkids will be burdoned with for years to come. I am pretty sure it will never operate in the black as it still needs to compete with airline service. Even at $86 it will not be enough to offset the expense if there is no ridership. The market it was envisioned for has all but dried up as more people work from home. A good example of this is my cousin who used to work for a firm near Union Square. He would commute everyday from Pleasanton to Union Square, then covid hit and he began working from home. Then the prices of office space went up-up-up, so the company execs made the decision to work from home full time. Currently the occupancy rate for office space in SF is around 36%. As another way for travelers to get to San Francisco, the HSR still needs to compate with the airlines and SF nowadays is a shadow of it's former self.
You say that the estimated time from Anaheim to LA is 46 mins at 110mph, however 47 mins is the current time it takes Amtrak's Pacific Surfliner to make the run between those destinations on the same corridor at 80mph with an in-between stop in Fullerton on top of it. Under those circumstances, why is CA HSR not faster than 46 mins? (Considering the Link US project will also theoretically shave a few mins off that run)
That is the estimate by the CAHSR Authority. The estimate does not go into specifics. Looking at the route there are only 4 straights in the 33 miles, and they are only 2 to 6 miles long. There are about half a dozen curves of half mile radius or less that break up those straights. It's not a fast route. The thing that probably keeps it from being a few minutes faster is traffic, as they will be sharing tracks with Amtrak, Metrolink, and BNSF.
LAC GOING TO BE THEEEEEE LONGEST CONSTRUCTION MY GOD
Is there regional rail service between LA Union and ARTIC right now?
Yes, Metrolink. Takes about 48 minutes.
@@LucidStew also Amtrak Pacific Surfliner, though that may count more as intercity than regional. Surfliner only has one stop at Fullerton between LA and ARTIC, while Metrolink has four stops, so Surfliner is a bit faster. 38 minutes on Amtrak compared to 44-46 minutes on Metrolink. Should CAHSR include an intermediate stop between LA and Anaheim, be it Norwalk, Fullerton, or potentially both, it should have a similar travel time to Amtrak.
@@ChrisJones-gx7fc I'm just going by their documents and their documents say 46 minutes over 33 miles.
@@LucidStewSo literally no faster than existing Metrolink service and slower than existing Amtrak service. What's the point?
@@Geotpf I'd say mainly electrification and politics. My stance has always been that if we wanted to upgrade regional rail to electric we should have voted on THAT and not a high speed train.
I'll be on that freeway in fresno lol
How many yards of concrete did they pour last week? Last month? Last year? "I don't know". Apparently neither do they. I don't want to hear "We have over 13,000 people employed" or "We just obtained $3 Billion from the Feds". I want to hear how many yards of concrete you poured. It would be nice to know how much you paid per yard too but that's probably asking too much.
To my knowledge they don't publish statistics related to rate of materials usage or cost. The Central Valley Status Reports are fairly detailed, but not that detailed, as that is more contractor-level information. You can, however, see in those reports how far over budget those contracts have run.
@@LucidStew Thanks. I haven't been able to find meaningful reports on the material progress of this project. As an engineer (including project management) I can pretty much read between the lines.
Sure is a lot closer from Madera to Gilroy (where HSR can meet up with Caltrain and a smoother build upgrade into San Jose and SF) than from LA Union to Bakersfield. Looks like a long 150-mile stretch of nothin’ from Bakersfield to LA.
The distance from the Central Valley wye to Gilroy is only about 30% less than Bakersfield to Santa Clarita. In HSR construction terms, running through nothing is something of a positive.
@@LucidStew part of why construction has taken so long on the 119 miles, and CP 1 specifically, has been going through urban areas like Fresno, dealing with home and business owners and negotiating with them to provide proper financial compensation for acquiring their property for the guideway, for which they’ve reportedly been paying market value. They’ve gotten much better at the acquisition process, which should make getting into Merced and Bakersfield go faster and smoother.
Getting beyond the urban side of the Central Valley should also make construction go faster, as they get out into more rural areas. The mountains will present their own sets of challenges, but given how much smoother things have gotten since the early years, resolving most of the issues which were mostly brought on by things outside CHSRA’s control, things should happen more smoothly on the mountain crossings. Those’ll likely begin in the 2030s, once Merced-Bakersfield is operational, and when funding for them is secured.
110 miles per hour through at-grade crossings. What could possibly go wrong?
Ask Brightline.
even the TGV goes through crossings
@@lalakerspro Which TGV regrets due to accidents and has been slowly eliminating.
@@johnhblaubachea5156 Ask about Brightline in Florida with all the grade crossing and all the accidents, crazy.
I know a guy at S.N.C.F. says they can build it underground the whole way cheaper and faster !
What about the property they have to buy hasn't real estate skyrocketed I mean like even if you do eminent domain they have to pay the high price and you know the cost went way up
Yes, this will certainly be a concern, and the CAHSR Authority by their own admission only updates cost estimates when environmental review milestones are met. Because of this escalation of costs through inflation are largely left out of the estimates.
For your renders, would the level of detail in Apple Maps help? Could it be combined with ArcGIS or whatever else you’re using?
Apple Maps level of detail just went viral and man it looks good (even if 0xGaut is probably right that nav is still better in Google maps or Waze)
I use the Cesium ion plug-in for UE5, which streams Google Maps data. I'm not familiar with Apple Maps, and have not seen any Apple Maps data streaming products on the UE5 Marketplace.
@@LucidStew ah, didn’t have any clue how the sausage gets made, just saw that Apple Maps has incredible level of detail in some areas now with zero clue how it would get captured so you could use it. My bad, love your channel
ive been hearing about this since the 1980s. goodluck
Video suggestion: ARTIC, its inconvenient design for passengers, and lessons for the Central Valley stations that are currently getting designed.
Tunnel, use the mucked rock for the concrete in the Viaducts...... I guess they are going too fast for scenic viewing anyways.
I see that CAHSR loves park and ride. Maybe it might work, maybe it just makes that more difficult to do TOD. And those long viaducts in Bakersfield are not going to be cheap either. Taxpayers are going to be hosed on that. Bakersfield looks like it has a stroads problem. Oh well, at least Bakersfield wilo get a new casino.....train station in the 2030s. Looking forward to Part 2 as we explore more park and ride mania from our friends at the CAHSRA.
While in Bakersfield I concluded that it is a victim of every urban renewal scheme you can think of, except for housing projects. Even Anaheim is arguably park and ride. I'm not sure, but they may end up with a section of Angel Stadium parking on that side. On the Central Valley side, I can tell you that Kings/Tulare is as wacky in person as I imagined.
@@LucidStew IIRC CAHSR will use most of the sites for staging, construction, etc, and then when it's done, convert it to parking lots temporarily. From my understanding, they'll lease or sell off the different parking lots at stations over time to get some revenue.
@@seanschannel3264 Yes, general consensus is that its a land grab. Palmdale, Fresno, Merced will likely see development around the stations. I have my doubts about Hanford and Bakersfield.
It would also be nice if the train did went through Ridgecrest. (Another city I used to live in)
shiddd I'll be in my 50s and brightline will be finished with their route to Las Vegas by the time they get through with all this 😂😂
The interesting thing is that there's an outside chance that CAHSR will connect to Las Vegas before Los Angeles.
@@LucidStew shidddd .... we shall see brightline moves at a good pace...
Very ambitious plan. Where is the money? Will it take another 30 yrs?
If California and the US were willing to shift some of the annual freeway budget to HSR, it could happen faster. It’s just a matter of what our priorities are, and sadly roads remain the much greater one thanks to decades of lobbying and building the modern US to be very car-centric. The recent IIJA and $66 billion it contained for passenger rail, the biggest investment since the creation of Amtrak, does show a hopeful turn back toward investing more in local and intercity transit, and more cities are looking to build and expand their transit systems, including very car-centric Los Angeles, and the Bay Area also has pretty good transit coverage.
As for how long it’ll take CAHSR to reach SF and LA, that also ultimate comes down to if it’s a big enough priority, and it’ll take a considerable amount of federal funding to make it happen anytime soon (say by 2040). California could potentially go it alone, but it would take longer. The SF extension is estimated at about $35 billion, and LA/Anaheim $52 billion, and it’ll likely a bit more once construction finally begins. The focus now is on getting the Merced-Bakersfield segment currently under construction done and operational ASAP, currently 2030-33 for the start of revenue service, then on reaching SF next and then LA/Anaheim via Palmdale.
My gut hunch is this: it won’t be until after the first trains begin running in the Central Valley, at least testing if not carrying passengers, and having something tangible to show for what’ll be $35 billion and 15+ years since construction began, that funding will be awarded to start building toward SF and LA. But there’ll also be greater excitement and support to keep going and quickly, because once we have that first 200 mph high speed train to ride on US soil, and experiencing first hand the advantages of HSR travel, there’ll be no going back.
The pace of construction from the early years will accelerate immensely, both from lessons learned since then as well as political willingness to keep building and get HSR across the mountains to the Bay Area and SoCal rail networks, and on into SF and LA proper, as quickly as possible. We just need that first example to prove HSR’s merits here, whether it be CAHSR or Brightline West, and likely both. Once we have it, we’ll start building more of it. This is the start of a turning point, one long overdue to bring proper HSR to the US, and really Western Hemisphere.
@@ChrisJones-gx7fc Your dissertations are quite impressive. l have a hard time keeping up with the volume. Your efforsts are greatly appreciated and add so much to the subject matter. Though l do wish they had triple the funding and (to eliminate the horrible ridership restricting slow bus bridge) that a route was chosen from Bakersfield to Santa Clarita and was constructed first.
They've identified $28 billion in funding through 2030. The Phase 1 part of the project is going to cost $120 billion+. About half of current funding is coming from CAHSR getting 1/4 of the state Cap and Trade auction receipts. If this is extended to 2050, as the CAHSRA would like, that's roughly another $25 billion. The other $65 billion? No one knows.
I can say confidently that it is likely to take at least another 30 years for Phase 1 to be done.
@@LucidStew Would perhaps need an extention of cap and trade beyond 2050. Hopefully getting 50% or even more. Most likely indefinitely to also cover operations.
@@davidjackson7281 But think about the implication of that idea. It's an admission that it wouldn't be done by 2050. I don't think they need to worry about operations. If they run at a deficit, they can likely get another entity to absorb that for them, like SJJPA will be doing with Merced-Bakersfield. Possibly Amtrak beyond the Central Valley if it doesn't make money.
You take a few renders and add a Rentals clip and baby, you got a Lucid Stew going!
Ruh roh, no Rentals in this one.
@@LucidStew I took a shot before watching the whole thing, no gold star for me!
@@alhollywood6486 Al's boo boos?
How close are they to begin construction on the LA Union Station "through running" alterations. Assuming they have sufficient funding set aside. Is anyone concerned that the coming November presidential election results might de-rail some of their pending expensive rail infrastructure plans?
According to Urbanize LA main construction is supposed to start in a couple of years on Phase 1, which is mainly the through-running tracks. As far as I know the funding situation isn't so bad it would be cancelled rather than delayed.
@@LucidStew It seems like Denver Union Station would also benefit from "through running" alterations, if Colorado's Front Range train were to somehow materialize.
@@LucidStew it's broken down into two phases, with Phase 1 being primarily the bridge over the 101 freeway with just two tracks and space to add the additional tracks later. Phase 2 included plans to raise the height of the tracks and platforms for a larger concourse below, but I think those plans got scrapped due to high costs. Phase 1 is supposed to open in time for the 2028 Olympics.
@@ChrisJones-gx7fc AFAIK, Phase 2 is still planned, but they don't having funding identified.
CHSR might be completely dead if Trump is elected.
what about LOM POCK?
That's Surfliner. Not sure how you get from the beach to the city, though.
I wish I was more confident that this project would ever be completed. Given how much they've struggled with the "easy" sections in the central valley, the idea of three tunnels over 12 miles in length between Palmdale and Burbank, not to mention the tunnels between Merced and Gilroy, is pretty daunting. NYU did a study a few years back that examined why megaprojects in the US are so often plagued with delays and cost overruns, and the causes are complex, but one of them was Americans' insistence on reinventing the wheel and refusing to apply models that worked in other countries. Add in the political decision to start in the central valley and the dearth of funding from the Federal government due to Republican obstructionism, and it's not surprising that the project is having so many problems. Fingers crossed, though. It will be awesome if it ever gets finished.
I think an enormous part of the problem here is that engineering decisions were built into the law and politicians make poor engineers. Give this project even 20% leeway on design constraints and it comes in way cheaper and gets done way faster. The proliferation of tunnels is a symptom of a project that is overdesigned. That essentially is the reinventing the wheel aspect. We couldn't have simply built a competent high speed rail system, we had to build one that was cutting edge.
@@LucidStew definitely. Another thing the study noted was Americans tendency to overbuild things. That “train” depot in Anaheim is another example. I also just think as much as possible the whole project from start to finish, from funding, bidding and everything else should follow best practices of what has worked elsewhere.
It is extremely expensive and time consuming to run the high speed rail line to city centers. In Asia, high speed rails usually enter the city center of only the largest major cities. For medium size cities along the way, the station usually located outside of the city, with short regular-speed spur lines connecting to the city center. In California, we are wasting all these money to run the high speed rail line into the center of all these central valley cities. Should have saved some money and focus on completing San Jose to Burbank in the fastest and cheapest and the most direct route