On this note, I read a book by John Keegan where he talked about the nomadic archetype when it came to warfare. The critical component was horsemanship. Once horses were bred to be strong enough to carry a man plus his gear, nomads gained a lot. They gained the ability to travel large distances quickly, and chase game at high speeds, which developed into fabulous archery skill as they learned to shoot moving targets for their food as well as becoming expert riders. What I find endlessly fascinating is that, horse + nomad gave birth to the greatest conquerors the world has ever known (the Huns, the magyars, the Golden Horde, the Turks, the Persians/Parthians, Bulgars). In the Americas, the inhabitants of the plains lived for millennia without the horse as nomadic hunters, and as soon as the Comanche gained access to the horse, they became one of the best light cavalry soldiers in the history of they world. They took to it as fish take to water, and they conquered as easily as their Asiatic steppe nomad cousins did.
@@ib9114 Well, depending on where you live it could be a years long journey for you to tell me that. But more than likely, you would perish before you could tell me.
One thing we see from anthropology is that some people did, indeed, decide to escape the agriculture trap. Livestock domestication produced a class of herdsmen who, over time, moved ever farther from the cities and followed their herds to seasonal food sources. Once riding was developed they became the steppe nomads of central asia, returning to loot and conquer the settled lands numerous times. A friend once likened it to a volcano the periodically spewed forth motorcycle gangs.
Looking back at the "simple" live with rose colored glasses is always interesting. That past might be a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there. As you said, everyone had to be pretty much self-sufficient which may sound ideal but also means constantly re-inventing the wheel since someone who lives three valleys away who invented something that would greatly benefit you would have a hard time passing it on to those not in his immediate circle of friends. And then, dealing with natural disasters was a bit of hit or miss too. Just ask all those perished because of the Toba volcano event. For all its faults, I'd rather live today with all that modern civilization has to offer.
Of course we do because we're part of the elite basically. Because we by consuming endlessly are responsible for the suffering of the rest of the world.
Yeah. And I generally think that is how the remaining nomadic peoples operate today. But a similar threat exists whenever you are reliant on property. In this case cattle. In case of disaster and your cattle dies, what then? But I do feel so long as the herd is in tact, it’s probably the easiest life. Brutal times all around. Regardless, I am grateful for the ease of life today.
@@datesanddeadguys If their cattle should perish then a farming fellow might simply visit another chap on a windy night in the hours of slumber and avail themselves to some of the that other person's cows. That's why herding cultures are generally somewhat brutal and weapons focused. Perhaps such as, you know, Americans.
@@datesanddeadguys Seems like inherent optimism bias and terror management theory will always help regardless of ideologies such as antinatalism based on consent and efilism.
Looking at our hunter gatherers' universal Venus figurines, women not only grew taller and had fewer children at a later age, they also seem to have lived to an age where pounds piled up.
Interesting. It actually validates my thoughts on the topic. My best friend is a farmer. I am a hunter. He works 14 hours a day 7 days a week.....for mediocre income. I work alot of hours too.....but in aerospace industry. My buddies farmland borders mine. They farm theirs. I hunt mine. They work their land.....i leave mine alone except to plant trees to draw more game. I also lease all their land for hunting. Their fields are fertile and grow good corn and hay. Deer also like corn and quality clover in their fields. So.....farming aint for me. Meat tastes way better than corn. But my hunting benefits from their farming. It all works out well.
Difference in your case is that your friend farms to eat, to feed him and his family, whereas you are in the aerospace industry to earn a living, a highly specialized job that brings lots of big bucks home.
Mesopotamian rivers do not innundate regularly. They followed a kinda schedule when/if they did. That's why i think it was the indus valley where ag began. I think it was also the oldest civilization
Farming also created a huge demand for slave labor. Eventually, it became unacceptable to make people work for nothing more than some beans to eat and a shack to live in. So, the world adapted and started giving their workers money to buy their own can of beans and rent that little slave shack. This is how 90% of the people around the globe live today. We tend to judge everything by our own experience here in the USA but we are really the exception. And even here it's becoming more and more like a third world country as the corporate slave masters and billionaires take away market share and buy up the land. Welcome to the "enlightened" modern world.
That’s correct and that’s the conclusion. Before modern civilization, For the individual it was better to be a hunter gatherer but agriculture allows for cities and specialization of labor even if it initially lowered quality of life.
Parasites wouldn’t necessarily impact one of the groups more than the others. However disease is largely a product of animal domestication and civilization. Close contact and unclean conditions made disease for early farmers prominent.
I think the author meant that agriculture is a mistake of the past. Surely a necessity for the present. Had argiculture not been discovered in the past we wouldn't have a huge population in the present which in turn need to be supported by agriculture.
I'd like to hunt and gather. From a .22 short to a 30/30. Stay close to base camp. Shoot rabbits and quail for the tribe. Be ever watchful for bears, giant cats, mad things.. or where and when to get cantaloupe. A good weed connect.
agriculture and diet: the inventors of agriculture did not stop hunting and gathering until extremely recently ... like in the last 100 years, and some do it even now in very modern and developed societies if they can get the permits :-) ; what changed is they did not depend on hunting or gathering hunter-gatherers having to carry the child until it was 4 ... what do you think the other children were doing, not caring for their younger siblings ? exclusive hunter-gatherers had very low population densities and when under stress killed their competitors ... same as the farmers, but the farmers could store grain for a few years
@@VANRICKELENIt's almost impossible to become a hunter gatherer now. You need your tribe and who will go with you? Almost all people are chained to civilization via debts etc. If the police find you, which they likely will, they'll just put you in jail. You'd need some big fucking disaster for it to become possible.
I agree. People always call me crazy when I say that. But it's true, so many problems we have now are a result of staying put. Life was appreciated much more as Hunter Gatherers, now everyone is afraid to die and is uncomfortable without wifi. We have become weaker in so many ways. I should have been born 100,000 years ago.
I am excited about new studies on growing meat cells in labs. This is an excellent idea when one considers how brutal it is to kill animals. I would try lab grown steak since it’s essentially the same proteins, acids and cells
William was right when he said modern tech and security was the worst mistake in human history. Voltaire would comment how he visited a utopia and found it incredibly boring despite seeing and hearing about people get disembowled and dying terribly in earthquakes. Funny enough, Voltaire's Candide would be written to combat the notion of "we live in the best of all possible worlds," but he would ultimately come to the same exact conclusion. The human being needs chaos and it needs danger. That's what Fight Club was about, "the Great Depression is our souls" These perspectives will always be relevant and our life can only be satisfied exploring the world. And unfortunately, the greatest mistake was already been made.
Real danger, real struggle, and real stress is what we lack... without it, we create stressors out of our comforts... We've taken a wrong turn, indeed... unless you're someone like Harari or Klaus Schaub...
Fight Club? My son and his friends thought it was Cool and meaningful. I'll agree that it romanticizes violence, exactly like this video romanticizes hunting. But violence really sucks! REALLY bad stuff! No wonder people quit hunting as soon as they found an alternative. Also, I don't think much attention was given to land requirements (how many people an acre will support). Agreed: Ag made modern civilization possible. Science will help us compensate for its negatives.
A lot of speculation with (of course) vague numbers, a prickly statement about a modern society form were over almost the entire human history monarchies and cast systems ruled. Very disappointing video which let one wonder, what was the purpose of it? Was farming a mistake to make a pretty pointless video? I guess so. To be fair, newer videos improved in quality but the topic for this one was too vague and send mixed messages and ones which had nothing to do except out of context jabs/jokes.
Funny, it was 30 years ago that my profesor told that, that the nomada Were like superheroes - skeleton remains show us thet thet hand almost no diseases. And i paid no attention to that claim. Untill now.
This could be the fruit from the tree of knowlege of good and evil that the bible talks about. Garden of eden was hunter gatherer society. What's your take on this?
I don’t know how much historical stock I would put into it but I am a sucker for a good metaphor and think we could make one. The Garden of Eden in this scenario is our land of plenty. We have the food and shelter we need to live well. Adam and Eve are the family group. They live in the garden and take full advantage of what it has to offer. The forbidden fruit is agriculture. It looks temping and valuable but in reality it’s poison. To eat the forbidden fruit leaves you are stuck in this one part of the garden. You devote your time and resources too it. As it expands so does your family. You plant more fruit trees to feed them and soon they take up your land of plenty. You are now a slave to the fruit and as it thrives so do you. As it fails so do you. It is crazy to think of how something like agriculture made life more difficult for so many. But without it we could not have modern society.
Agreed, seems like the government as a byproduct of agricultural/pastoral revolution will always be in need for more consumers, wage-slaves and cannon fodder regardless of ideologies such as antinatalism based on consent.
I think a mic closer to your mouth would be beneficial coz sometimes I can't understand what you're saying due to room echo (even the subtitles can't pick up certain bits I.e 'march with hatred farming') nice vids otherwise
This is a way more important story than most people think. And it is very strange for lack of a better word lol. I had always assumed that we slowly evolved into civilization but know According to Academia agricultural happen over night literally. Archeologists have discovered that agricultural was sarted in one town maybe even by one family a town in turky witch i am probably pronouncing wrong and i definitely don't know how to spell it. But back then the land was called Mesopotamia the land of the fertile crescent witch is modern dy Iran Turkey ext. Anyway in this one town they Domesticated 5 of the main crops that we eat till this day. Oat Barley Weat i cannot remember the other 2 lol my bad. But that is just crazy do have any kind of idead what it takes to domesticat one plant it is a lot to it. And this people or person did it with pretty much zero technology well its obvious that they had technology because it was done but domesticating one of these plants is huge let alone 5 o yeah they also domesticated several animals in this one town. To give you an idea how hard it is to domesticat plants this guy in Australia around 25 30 years ago was a 8th generation farmer so lot's of knowledge in farming and with modern day technology it took him 17 years to domesticat one plant yes one plant to take to the soil in Australia and they are telling us that in this one town with zero technology and zero knowledge of farming 5 of the main crops we eat till this day happen. Wow that blows my mind. Yes According to Academia we went from hunter gathering to civilization over night. If that is true then the big question how in the f... is that possible LMFAO
You better have a really good reason how farming is bad. Farming let people put down roots and grow cities, which developed technology and gave us the world we have today.
It’s a matter of perspective, I guess, but if you can appreciate that all animals will do best living in their natural habitat, there really shouldn’t be much explanation needed. Harder, physically, doesn’t equal bad. Humans are not only part of nature. We ARE nature. So it is not possible for us to do something to nature that we don’t also do to ourselves. Maybe you believe that farming and all of the technology that has followed has been beneficial to nature in some way, but I’m skeptical of that. We cannot possibly imagine how amazing it feels to live as our ancestors from 30,000 years ago lived, not only because we have never lived that way, but also, because we have been brainwashed into believing their lives were terrible. Who do you think might benefit from the collective belief that life, pre agriculture and pre-state, was terrible? Hmm, probably the people in the world who want to control you completely. Even if you cannot return to living as you evolved to live, just your rejection of their myths(or lies) would reduce their control over you drastically. I think a very large percentage of people want to be controlled though, because they believe they are inherently evil. You’re not, I promise.
@ nature is also very cruel and terrifying. Parents having to bury half of their children was reality clear thousands of years. A more natural lifestyle, like you mention, may have pros, but the cons outweigh them badly. Farming allowed a small number of people provide food for an entire city. Which freed up people to bring about scientific and cultural revolutions that shaped humans as we are today. A hunger gatherer lifestyle may be simple and beautiful, but it is also harsh and terrifying. I think humans went down the path we were meant to and evolved to outgrow the life of a savage.
@ I also think the hunger gatherer lifestyle is lazy and irresponsible. Feeding your family should not be left to chance. Your wife and kids could starve if those animals don’t show up. And in the video, the Comanche were just lazy and would rather steal. No, farming is the foundation of humanity as we know it today.
It doesn't have to be either/or. We can improve mankind's health and longevity just by emphasizing the pastoral raising of livestock over crop monoculture. Cowboy culture, when you think about it, is a synthesis of hunter gathering and agriculture. All we need to do is stop cafo raising and get critters back where God intended them to be. On the land.
more people more tax money for the "government". women in the workforce. more taxes. and so on and so on. Less children? No problem! Illegals allowed into the country. More taxes....
Neanderthals have some of the worst skeletal injuries of the Homo lineage. Plus there are plenty of signs of cannibalism. While I am sure tropical hunter gathers have it pretty easy shooting small game and fishing and gathering fruits and plants? Outside of this narrow band life could be down right harsh. If you have ever killed and butchered a Moose or a Elk and packed it out on your back in a blizzard? Stark reality smacks you right in the face. Never mind hunting Mammoth with a spear? Or killing a Cave Bear so your family doesn’t freeze to death? Sure farming is hard work. But it’s nothing compared to what our ancestors had to do to survive before in most places globally. I don’t know who wrote this book? But I would take it with a grain of salt. The idea of the noble savage is grand, but we typically smooth over the rough spots of which there are many. Most northern native Americans employed both strategies and even sometimes that wasn’t enough!
The mans a fool, bears eat berries yes, but bears also have several 100s of pounds of fresh meat on their bones. So the hunters would kill the bear and feast for months !!!!
why do you also think that farmers didnt hunt - didnt you notice as agriculture started, populations rose, animal herds disapeared across europe, the middle east and asia. thats cus they ate them all. Then there was the hunter gatherers making armies that decimated herds of animals across the land (Deer, moose, cats, dogs, wolves, bears) (eg mongols), everything they could kill. Even the hunter gatherers were farners of animals. I guess they attacked the civilized because they were killing and eating all the animals, they wanted to kill and eat. Which is in my mind the cause of all the conflict with unciv. and civ. alot of blame goes to the romans but there wasnt herds of animals in those times either. Thats why africa and north america were so great. They hadnt killed everything yet. and when they got to africa and north america, they started killing in mass, right away. Till no more herds and no more beavers, no more water from ponds that beavers made. Everything dies. We still do it now, someone sees a coyote and everyone is saying " we need a coyote cull" like wth! Omg i seen an animal anybody have a GUN?. Largest polar bear ever seen, some guy blew its brains out, biggest grizzlly, blew his brains out, biggest croc, blew his brains out. biggest lion, blew his brains out. Tiger, blew its brains out, elephant, rhino, brains out, all now in a museum, yeh!. Humans love to kill, sounds savage and uncivilized to me! So i conclusion we are all uncivilized. Might as well get naked and tie out penises to our bellies and go killing! search uncontacted tribes on youtube, see how many people they have killed, its fun for them and a lifestyle. Its what they do.
Quoting YUVAL NOAH HARARI ... not a great way to start off anything. And I know you do a lot of reading. Could be you need to do a little more. OR ... you did your homework and still chose that to lead off with.
There is also the boom and bust theory, a group settles, grow crops, eat well (relatively speaking), population rises, then there is a crop failure or some other problem, population crashes. repeat, also once population density reaches critical mass, sometimes quite low, disease takes over. Think, hunter gathers move and disease from, frankly, their droppings is not a problem. Stay in place with crap sanitation and problems arise. Again as you stated, domesticated animals can pass diseases which affect people. Who knows, if the Greenies get their way, the same might happen again on a large scale, although the Greenies will be happy if it means the zero carbon target is met. Too bad about the billions of deaths. Again in many societies people farmed but also foraged in forests etc. One on the things in Europe is that forests were managed, fallen debris collected and trees managed for species that provided useful food. Now that doesn't happen and forest fires have plenty of fuel.
I do not like admitting, at times, I am just an animal - it's there. We now control enough of our surroundings that the effects of our (wild!!) imagination are evident everywhere on the planet. What has a human produced that has had a positive impact on the planet - our spaceship. It seems that men have taken over control of what they can and in each case the long term impact on the planet is Bad. If i (we) think of ourselves as caretakers of Just our children what we I do? Take a few steps back with the realization that first of all there are too many of us... The next few steps are also obvious, slow down commerce, etc. and could be viewed as loss. No. The painful walk back to be responsible for the the surroundings and not destructive. Simple. Challenging. A better direction. A fool in the mountains will step on snow and find out it is a cloud.
The ancient people were hybridizing plants. That means they had a science. I think this dissertation is a vast understatement of ancient people. Did you know that the Vedas of India have the history of mankind? Rather than listening to the ridiculous caveman stories, you should read and hear about ancient advanced civilizations that are cyclically destroyed on earth, as we will also perish.
Their diets were so healthy that they probably didn’t need to wipe. Have you never had such a clean poop that there was nothing on the TP? You should up your fiber!
Quoting the current views does not solve the problem because none of the people actually "lived" the life style. I have done Keto for almost 17 years. Try eating any amount of grain now creates a whole host of discomfort within 30 minutes that persist for hours for me and others who try to switch back. Point here is I can not fathom WHY ancestors would take it up. Really though is the first problem. Any investigation of the few remaining hunter gather groups still has them believing that the bounty is provided whether they use the term God, Nature etc. We are fully aware that ancient man believed some more powerful creator was responsible for the food they had. Now you want me to believe that ancient man decided they were more capable then their "provider" Hmmmm Has anyone tried transplanting something even just a few yards away from where you found it. Unless we dig up enough of the current soil the plant is growing in it usually fails. Conditions are just not right even just a few yards over. Second big problem hunter gathers move with the prey, they have to move with the animals. They have no time for failure. The seasons change, they follow the prey, they gather from what is in the know area, they move again. Plants grow very quickly. Plants fill in an area within weeks. By the time hunters come back around by the next season there more to gather. It makes no sense to expel so much effort for what is provided. For hundreds of thousands of years we existed and evolved without agriculture and suddenly it appears. We were shown how to do it and it was needed to keep us in one place. Oh and during my years living on a high fat low carb diet running a cottage resort on sloped land I spent around 6 hours a day physically working hard and had no problem only eating 3 to 4 meals in a week and my weekly calories never exceeded 2000 calories in a WEEK and I did not lose weight, I can tell you that caloric requirment is not even close to what is claimed today
Not even considering happiness and quality of life, development of agriculture and human consciousness as a whole was clearly a misstep in evolution. Think about the planet. If agriculture never happened, earth might not be doomed for destruction which it now is (nuclear war mainly). I also don't think our way of life is good for our well being. Yeah you had to fight predators and it must've been chaos when times were bad but that's how it's supposed to be. Nature is chaos but also good for us. Current way of life will be the end of homo sapiens
What we allways forget: where hunter gatherer lifestyle remained? Where the environment provided benefits to this lifestyle. And about health : its a typical survival biass. What (whose) pre agricultural bones we have? Those one, who lived long enough to became an important one to preserve their body. However agricultural people buried everyone who died. So among the agricultural people we see the whole population. But in the pre agrultural population, we just see the chieftans. And about violence: actual studies ahowed, thet among nomad people about 1/3 of them died by violence. The 15% is a big development there. So I would like not to be ancient nomad. Their life was sucks. At every level.
Agreed. Personally I think there are benefits from both sides as Humans’ evolution happened mostly with the Hunting stage as that the the definition of Survival of the Fittest, but we as humans became more humane and intelligent during our agricultural stage and so forth.
On this note, I read a book by John Keegan where he talked about the nomadic archetype when it came to warfare. The critical component was horsemanship. Once horses were bred to be strong enough to carry a man plus his gear, nomads gained a lot. They gained the ability to travel large distances quickly, and chase game at high speeds, which developed into fabulous archery skill as they learned to shoot moving targets for their food as well as becoming expert riders. What I find endlessly fascinating is that, horse + nomad gave birth to the greatest conquerors the world has ever known (the Huns, the magyars, the Golden Horde, the Turks, the Persians/Parthians, Bulgars). In the Americas, the inhabitants of the plains lived for millennia without the horse as nomadic hunters, and as soon as the Comanche gained access to the horse, they became one of the best light cavalry soldiers in the history of they world. They took to it as fish take to water, and they conquered as easily as their Asiatic steppe nomad cousins did.
"Without these farmers we wouldn't get modern society".
Point proven.
Ain’t much good about modern society
@@ib9114 nothing*
We get overpopulation and collapse and a few that have skills to survive start it over
@@ib9114 Well, depending on where you live it could be a years long journey for you to tell me that. But more than likely, you would perish before you could tell me.
and what has modern society done? nothing, but destroyed the planet....well done.
One thing we see from anthropology is that some people did, indeed, decide to escape the agriculture trap. Livestock domestication produced a class of herdsmen who, over time, moved ever farther from the cities and followed their herds to seasonal food sources. Once riding was developed they became the steppe nomads of central asia, returning to loot and conquer the settled lands numerous times. A friend once likened it to a volcano the periodically spewed forth motorcycle gangs.
Looking back at the "simple" live with rose colored glasses is always interesting. That past might be a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there. As you said, everyone had to be pretty much self-sufficient which may sound ideal but also means constantly re-inventing the wheel since someone who lives three valleys away who invented something that would greatly benefit you would have a hard time passing it on to those not in his immediate circle of friends. And then, dealing with natural disasters was a bit of hit or miss too. Just ask all those perished because of the Toba volcano event.
For all its faults, I'd rather live today with all that modern civilization has to offer.
Of course we do because we're part of the elite basically. Because we by consuming endlessly are responsible for the suffering of the rest of the world.
Interesting that yuval harari wrote this given that he is revered as a prophet by Klaus Schwab. Gives you an insight on what they think about society.
“You will own nothing, and you’ll be happy.”
What about nomadic pastoralism? Seems like a perfect mix between the two
Yeah. And I generally think that is how the remaining nomadic peoples operate today. But a similar threat exists whenever you are reliant on property. In this case cattle. In case of disaster and your cattle dies, what then? But I do feel so long as the herd is in tact, it’s probably the easiest life. Brutal times all around. Regardless, I am grateful for the ease of life today.
@@datesanddeadguys If their cattle should perish then a farming fellow might simply visit another chap on a windy night in the hours of slumber and avail themselves to some of the that other person's cows. That's why herding cultures are generally somewhat brutal and weapons focused. Perhaps such as, you know, Americans.
@@datesanddeadguys Seems like inherent optimism bias and terror management theory will always help regardless of ideologies such as antinatalism based on consent and efilism.
Looking at our hunter gatherers' universal Venus figurines, women not only grew taller and had fewer children at a later age, they also seem to have lived to an age where pounds piled up.
Your channel deserves more subscribers!
Thank you! It’s growing fast. Only been at it a few months so hopefully it’ll turn into something!
I found your channel a few days ago, and it is seriously refreshing and informative. Thanks for all of your hard work!
Interesting. It actually validates my thoughts on the topic. My best friend is a farmer. I am a hunter. He works 14 hours a day 7 days a week.....for mediocre income. I work alot of hours too.....but in aerospace industry. My buddies farmland borders mine. They farm theirs. I hunt mine. They work their land.....i leave mine alone except to plant trees to draw more game. I also lease all their land for hunting. Their fields are fertile and grow good corn and hay. Deer also like corn and quality clover in their fields. So.....farming aint for me. Meat tastes way better than corn. But my hunting benefits from their farming. It all works out well.
Difference in your case is that your friend farms to eat, to feed him and his family, whereas you are in the aerospace industry to earn a living, a highly specialized job that brings lots of big bucks home.
Mesopotamian rivers do not innundate regularly. They followed a kinda schedule when/if they did. That's why i think it was the indus valley where ag began. I think it was also the oldest civilization
Farming also created a huge demand for slave labor. Eventually, it became unacceptable to make people work for nothing more than some beans to eat and a shack to live in. So, the world adapted and started giving their workers money to buy their own can of beans and rent that little slave shack. This is how 90% of the people around the globe live today. We tend to judge everything by our own experience here in the USA but we are really the exception. And even here it's becoming more and more like a third world country as the corporate slave masters and billionaires take away market share and buy up the land. Welcome to the "enlightened" modern world.
Yes it was
How were we meant to support such a high population without agriculture
That’s correct and that’s the conclusion. Before modern civilization, For the individual it was better to be a hunter gatherer but agriculture allows for cities and specialization of labor even if it initially lowered quality of life.
Your not considering the diseases and parasites that our ancestors.
Parasites wouldn’t necessarily impact one of the groups more than the others. However disease is largely a product of animal domestication and civilization. Close contact and unclean conditions made disease for early farmers prominent.
I think the author meant that agriculture is a mistake of the past. Surely a necessity for the present.
Had argiculture not been discovered in the past we wouldn't have a huge population in the present which in turn need to be supported by agriculture.
We weren't
Sort your audio issues
I'd like to hunt and gather. From a .22 short to a 30/30. Stay close to base camp. Shoot rabbits and quail for the tribe. Be ever watchful for bears, giant cats, mad things.. or where and when to get cantaloupe. A good weed connect.
agriculture and diet: the inventors of agriculture did not stop hunting and gathering until extremely recently ... like in the last 100 years, and some do it even now in very modern and developed societies if they can get the permits :-) ; what changed is they did not depend on hunting or gathering
hunter-gatherers having to carry the child until it was 4 ... what do you think the other children were doing, not caring for their younger siblings ?
exclusive hunter-gatherers had very low population densities and when under stress killed their competitors ... same as the farmers, but the farmers could store grain for a few years
Great vid! I wish humans still hunted and gathered, you know the stone age life - Life would be more fulfilling, but hey it is what it is - Peace
Not the stone life, but the Wood life
Where you at with you're own advice? Oh yeah still enjoying life in the burbs watching youtube.
@@VANRICKELENIt's almost impossible to become a hunter gatherer now. You need your tribe and who will go with you? Almost all people are chained to civilization via debts etc. If the police find you, which they likely will, they'll just put you in jail. You'd need some big fucking disaster for it to become possible.
I agree. People always call me crazy when I say that. But it's true, so many problems we have now are a result of staying put.
Life was appreciated much more as Hunter Gatherers, now everyone is afraid to die and is uncomfortable without wifi. We have become weaker in so many ways.
I should have been born 100,000 years ago.
I still hunt and gather. I just hunt @ the grocery store & McDonald's
I am excited about new studies on growing meat cells in labs. This is an excellent idea when one considers how brutal it is to kill animals. I would try lab grown steak since it’s essentially the same proteins, acids and cells
Good stuff! Thank you!
William was right when he said modern tech and security was the worst mistake in human history. Voltaire would comment how he visited a utopia and found it incredibly boring despite seeing and hearing about people get disembowled and dying terribly in earthquakes. Funny enough, Voltaire's Candide would be written to combat the notion of "we live in the best of all possible worlds," but he would ultimately come to the same exact conclusion. The human being needs chaos and it needs danger. That's what Fight Club was about, "the Great Depression is our souls" These perspectives will always be relevant and our life can only be satisfied exploring the world. And unfortunately, the greatest mistake was already been made.
Real danger, real struggle, and real stress is what we lack... without it, we create stressors out of our comforts... We've taken a wrong turn, indeed... unless you're someone like Harari or Klaus Schaub...
Fight Club? My son and his friends thought it was Cool and meaningful. I'll agree that it romanticizes violence, exactly like this video romanticizes hunting. But violence really sucks! REALLY bad stuff! No wonder people quit hunting as soon as they found an alternative. Also, I don't think much attention was given to land requirements (how many people an acre will support). Agreed: Ag made modern civilization possible. Science will help us compensate for its negatives.
@@bobreckers4379 people die anyway
Great channel, by the way.
I think so. It resulted from eating fruit from the Tree of Knowledge. Its not like we werent warned.
A lot of speculation with (of course) vague numbers, a prickly statement about a modern society form were over almost the entire human history monarchies and cast systems ruled. Very disappointing video which let one wonder, what was the purpose of it? Was farming a mistake to make a pretty pointless video? I guess so.
To be fair, newer videos improved in quality but the topic for this one was too vague and send mixed messages and ones which had nothing to do except out of context jabs/jokes.
Whoooooooooosh!
Good info. Short well organized summary.
(Unlike some comments)
👍
Funny, it was 30 years ago that my profesor told that, that the nomada Were like superheroes - skeleton remains show us thet thet hand almost no diseases. And i paid no attention to that claim. Untill now.
This could be the fruit from the tree of knowlege of good and evil that the bible talks about. Garden of eden was hunter gatherer society. What's your take on this?
I don’t know how much historical stock I would put into it but I am a sucker for a good metaphor and think we could make one.
The Garden of Eden in this scenario is our land of plenty. We have the food and shelter we need to live well. Adam and Eve are the family group. They live in the garden and take full advantage of what it has to offer. The forbidden fruit is agriculture. It looks temping and valuable but in reality it’s poison. To eat the forbidden fruit leaves you are stuck in this one part of the garden. You devote your time and resources too it. As it expands so does your family. You plant more fruit trees to feed them and soon they take up your land of plenty. You are now a slave to the fruit and as it thrives so do you. As it fails so do you.
It is crazy to think of how something like agriculture made life more difficult for so many. But without it we could not have modern society.
There’s no corner like having your own corner
Hunter gathers never stopped hunting and gathering when they started farming.
These farmers were the same people, so they should have gotten smarter.
Yep, together with industrial capitalism, both intensifications of human footprint. Ontological insanity.
Agreed, seems like the government as a byproduct of agricultural/pastoral revolution will always be in need for more consumers, wage-slaves and cannon fodder regardless of ideologies such as antinatalism based on consent.
great book
Farming what's a mistake for some because it made them too predictable
Ancient pioneers!
I can drive my Toyota down the street thanks to them. 😎
I think a mic closer to your mouth would be beneficial coz sometimes I can't understand what you're saying due to room echo (even the subtitles can't pick up certain bits I.e 'march with hatred farming')
nice vids otherwise
See vegetarianism is mostly found in India and we are one of the shortest.... lucky me that my parents aren't vegetarian.
Yes it must have been the biggest mistake in human history, don’t eat the forbidden fruit.
This is a way more important story than most people think. And it is very strange for lack of a better word lol. I had always assumed that we slowly evolved into civilization but know According to Academia agricultural happen over night literally. Archeologists have discovered that agricultural was sarted in one town maybe even by one family a town in turky witch i am probably pronouncing wrong and i definitely don't know how to spell it. But back then the land was called Mesopotamia the land of the fertile crescent witch is modern dy Iran Turkey ext. Anyway in this one town they Domesticated 5 of the main crops that we eat till this day. Oat Barley Weat i cannot remember the other 2 lol my bad. But that is just crazy do have any kind of idead what it takes to domesticat one plant it is a lot to it. And this people or person did it with pretty much zero technology well its obvious that they had technology because it was done but domesticating one of these plants is huge let alone 5 o yeah they also domesticated several animals in this one town. To give you an idea how hard it is to domesticat plants this guy in Australia around 25 30 years ago was a 8th generation farmer so lot's of knowledge in farming and with modern day technology it took him 17 years to domesticat one plant yes one plant to take to the soil in Australia and they are telling us that in this one town with zero technology and zero knowledge of farming 5 of the main crops we eat till this day happen. Wow that blows my mind. Yes According to Academia we went from hunter gathering to civilization over night. If that is true then the big question how in the f... is that possible LMFAO
Reminiscent of the Ishmael books by Daniel Quinn.
You better have a really good reason how farming is bad. Farming let people put down roots and grow cities, which developed technology and gave us the world we have today.
It’s a matter of perspective, I guess, but if you can appreciate that all animals will do best living in their natural habitat, there really shouldn’t be much explanation needed. Harder, physically, doesn’t equal bad. Humans are not only part of nature. We ARE nature. So it is not possible for us to do something to nature that we don’t also do to ourselves. Maybe you believe that farming and all of the technology that has followed has been beneficial to nature in some way, but I’m skeptical of that. We cannot possibly imagine how amazing it feels to live as our ancestors from 30,000 years ago lived, not only because we have never lived that way, but also, because we have been brainwashed into believing their lives were terrible. Who do you think might benefit from the collective belief that life, pre agriculture and pre-state, was terrible? Hmm, probably the people in the world who want to control you completely. Even if you cannot return to living as you evolved to live, just your rejection of their myths(or lies) would reduce their control over you drastically. I think a very large percentage of people want to be controlled though, because they believe they are inherently evil. You’re not, I promise.
@ nature is also very cruel and terrifying. Parents having to bury half of their children was reality clear thousands of years. A more natural lifestyle, like you mention, may have pros, but the cons outweigh them badly. Farming allowed a small number of people provide food for an entire city. Which freed up people to bring about scientific and cultural revolutions that shaped humans as we are today. A hunger gatherer lifestyle may be simple and beautiful, but it is also harsh and terrifying. I think humans went down the path we were meant to and evolved to outgrow the life of a savage.
@ I also think the hunger gatherer lifestyle is lazy and irresponsible. Feeding your family should not be left to chance. Your wife and kids could starve if those animals don’t show up. And in the video, the Comanche were just lazy and would rather steal. No, farming is the foundation of humanity as we know it today.
It doesn't have to be either/or. We can improve mankind's health and longevity just by emphasizing the pastoral raising of livestock over crop monoculture. Cowboy culture, when you think about it, is a synthesis of hunter gathering and agriculture. All we need to do is stop cafo raising and get critters back where God intended them to be. On the land.
more people more tax money for the "government". women in the workforce. more taxes. and so on and so on. Less children? No problem! Illegals allowed into the country. More taxes....
Where's your roman helmet
Neanderthals have some of the worst skeletal injuries of the Homo lineage. Plus there are plenty of signs of cannibalism. While I am sure tropical hunter gathers have it pretty easy shooting small game and fishing and gathering fruits and plants? Outside of this narrow band life could be down right harsh. If you have ever killed and butchered a Moose or a Elk and packed it out on your back in a blizzard? Stark reality smacks you right in the face. Never mind hunting Mammoth with a spear? Or killing a Cave Bear so your family doesn’t freeze to death? Sure farming is hard work. But it’s nothing compared to what our ancestors had to do to survive before in most places globally. I don’t know who wrote this book? But I would take it with a grain of salt. The idea of the noble savage is grand, but we typically smooth over the rough spots of which there are many. Most northern native Americans employed both strategies and even sometimes that wasn’t enough!
As someone with Addisons, screw that, I’d be dead.
Your definitely more of a nutritionist that culturalist
It might be the fit approach
Yuval Harari Shawb mascot.
The mans a fool, bears eat berries yes, but bears also have several 100s of pounds of fresh meat on their bones. So the hunters would kill the bear and feast for months !!!!
If your ancestors adopted farming early, then you are a smart person.
Agreed
why do you also think that farmers didnt hunt - didnt you notice as agriculture started, populations rose, animal herds disapeared across europe, the middle east and asia. thats cus they ate them all. Then there was the hunter gatherers making armies that decimated herds of animals across the land (Deer, moose, cats, dogs, wolves, bears) (eg mongols), everything they could kill. Even the hunter gatherers were farners of animals. I guess they attacked the civilized because they were killing and eating all the animals, they wanted to kill and eat. Which is in my mind the cause of all the conflict with unciv. and civ. alot of blame goes to the romans but there wasnt herds of animals in those times either. Thats why africa and north america were so great. They hadnt killed everything yet. and when they got to africa and north america, they started killing in mass, right away. Till no more herds and no more beavers, no more water from ponds that beavers made. Everything dies. We still do it now, someone sees a coyote and everyone is saying " we need a coyote cull" like wth! Omg i seen an animal anybody have a GUN?. Largest polar bear ever seen, some guy blew its brains out, biggest grizzlly, blew his brains out, biggest croc, blew his brains out. biggest lion, blew his brains out. Tiger, blew its brains out, elephant, rhino, brains out, all now in a museum, yeh!. Humans love to kill, sounds savage and uncivilized to me! So i conclusion we are all uncivilized. Might as well get naked and tie out penises to our bellies and go killing! search uncontacted tribes on youtube, see how many people they have killed, its fun for them and a lifestyle. Its what they do.
💗💗💗😊
No.
🤠👍🏿
The healthiest people will have access to resources but not become lazy, indulging in the desires for comfort.
Quoting YUVAL NOAH HARARI ... not a great way to start off anything. And I know you do a lot of reading. Could be you need to do a little more. OR ... you did your homework and still chose that to lead off with.
Can't hear you
There is also the boom and bust theory, a group settles, grow crops, eat well (relatively speaking), population rises, then there is a crop failure or some other problem, population crashes. repeat, also once population density reaches critical mass, sometimes quite low, disease takes over. Think, hunter gathers move and disease from, frankly, their droppings is not a problem. Stay in place with crap sanitation and problems arise. Again as you stated, domesticated animals can pass diseases which affect people. Who knows, if the Greenies get their way, the same might happen again on a large scale, although the Greenies will be happy if it means the zero carbon target is met. Too bad about the billions of deaths. Again in many societies people farmed but also foraged in forests etc. One on the things in Europe is that forests were managed, fallen debris collected and trees managed for species that provided useful food. Now that doesn't happen and forest fires have plenty of fuel.
According to the Bible Abel is a shepherd and Cain is a farmer. Shit hits the fan when farming takes off 😊
How were they supposed to live in those days? They didn't even have i-Phone 1!
I do not like admitting, at times, I am just an animal - it's there. We now control enough of our surroundings that the effects of our (wild!!) imagination are evident everywhere on the planet. What has a human produced that has had a positive impact on the planet - our spaceship. It seems that men have taken over control of what they can and in each case the long term impact on the planet is Bad. If i (we) think of ourselves as caretakers of Just our children what we I do? Take a few steps back with the realization that first of all there are too many of us... The next few steps are also obvious, slow down commerce, etc. and could be viewed as loss. No. The painful walk back to be responsible for the the surroundings and not destructive. Simple. Challenging. A better direction. A fool in the mountains will step on snow and find out it is a cloud.
The ancient people were hybridizing plants. That means they had a science. I think this dissertation is a vast understatement of ancient people. Did you know that the Vedas of India have the history of mankind? Rather than listening to the ridiculous caveman stories, you should read and hear about ancient advanced civilizations that are cyclically destroyed on earth, as we will also perish.
If we hunted and gathered our own food, all of us would be remotely thin lol and I wouldn't hate it x)
First thing , no toilet paper. Yeah . Second thing lions tigers and bears oh my . Third thing WINTER . Any questions?
Their diets were so healthy that they probably didn’t need to wipe. Have you never had such a clean poop that there was nothing on the TP? You should up your fiber!
Quoting the current views does not solve the problem because none of the people actually "lived" the life style.
I have done Keto for almost 17 years. Try eating any amount of grain now creates a whole host of discomfort within 30 minutes that persist for hours for me and others who try to switch back. Point here is I can not fathom WHY ancestors would take it up.
Really though is the first problem. Any investigation of the few remaining hunter gather groups still has them believing that the bounty is provided whether they use the term God, Nature etc. We are fully aware that ancient man believed some more powerful creator was responsible for the food they had. Now you want me to believe that ancient man decided they were more capable then their "provider" Hmmmm
Has anyone tried transplanting something even just a few yards away from where you found it. Unless we dig up enough of the current soil the plant is growing in it usually fails. Conditions are just not right even just a few yards over.
Second big problem hunter gathers move with the prey, they have to move with the animals. They have no time for failure. The seasons change, they follow the prey, they gather from what is in the know area, they move again. Plants grow very quickly. Plants fill in an area within weeks. By the time hunters come back around by the next season there more to gather.
It makes no sense to expel so much effort for what is provided.
For hundreds of thousands of years we existed and evolved without agriculture and suddenly it appears.
We were shown how to do it and it was needed to keep us in one place.
Oh and during my years living on a high fat low carb diet running a cottage resort on sloped land I spent around 6 hours a day physically working hard and had no problem only eating 3 to 4 meals in a week and my weekly calories never exceeded 2000 calories in a WEEK and I did not lose weight, I can tell you that caloric requirment is not even close to what is claimed today
LoL
Not even considering happiness and quality of life, development of agriculture and human consciousness as a whole was clearly a misstep in evolution. Think about the planet. If agriculture never happened, earth might not be doomed for destruction which it now is (nuclear war mainly). I also don't think our way of life is good for our well being. Yeah you had to fight predators and it must've been chaos when times were bad but that's how it's supposed to be. Nature is chaos but also good for us. Current way of life will be the end of homo sapiens
Agriculture brought us HOT POCKETS . I'm for agriculture 👍
#carnivorediet
What we allways forget: where hunter gatherer lifestyle remained? Where the environment provided benefits to this lifestyle. And about health : its a typical survival biass. What (whose) pre agricultural bones we have? Those one, who lived long enough to became an important one to preserve their body. However agricultural people buried everyone who died. So among the agricultural people we see the whole population. But in the pre agrultural population, we just see the chieftans.
And about violence: actual studies ahowed, thet among nomad people about 1/3 of them died by violence. The 15% is a big development there. So I would like not to be ancient nomad. Their life was sucks. At every level.
Agreed. Personally I think there are benefits from both sides as Humans’ evolution happened mostly with the Hunting stage as that the the definition of Survival of the Fittest, but we as humans became more humane and intelligent during our agricultural stage and so forth.
It's not agriculture vs nomadic it's nutrition education vs nutrition uneducated. #No war on farms.