Responding to Ex-Vegans
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 พ.ค. 2024
- In this video we’re taking a dive into a subreddit I discovered recently called “r/exvegans.” We’ll take a look at what some ex-vegans are struggling with and I’ll react/respond to the (often misguided) advice they receive from others. This video is for entertainment purposes only.
00:00 intro/what is reddit?
00:47 ex-vegan subreddit
01:25 disclaimer
01:40 I’m an “ex-ex-vegan”
02:34 is veganism a cult?
11:13 Earthling Ed’s book/arguments against veganism
14:34 mock meat doesn’t taste like real meat
17:29 phobia of animal products
20:40 “over” being vegetarian
22:16 libido after leaving veganism
23:27 leaving veganism after 10 years
25:20 final thoughts - บันเทิง
This quote came to mind when making this video; it’s one of my favorite quotes about Veganism. It came from a Guardian article (written by a non-vegan author):
“We might portray the current moment as a precipice, and the growing interest in plant-based diets as the surest way back to safety. In this interpretation, the war on vegans is the act of a doomed majority fighting to defend its harmful way of life. Vegans might well be vociferous and annoying, holier-than-thou, self-satisfied and evangelical. But as their numbers grow beyond the margins, perhaps the worst thing they could be is right.”
I made a whole video about this article; I highly recommend watching it because the article is fascinating and enlightening. Here it is: th-cam.com/video/P_q4DiHzXl8/w-d-xo.html
I hate the fact that veganism being considered "right" always has to be prefaced by how insufferable vegans are. That rhetoric needs to change.
Not sure why you'd like this quote, what he says is totally stupid. Veganism is a religious practice; ascetic Jaina's figured that the more you starve yourself of your earthly needs the more heavenly you become. There is nothing "safe" about it, it isn't sound and it isn't "right." Growing numbers is a disaster for human health, and reproduction.
Vegans bring forth how the meat industry can be less than pleasant, and if we treat animals horribly then of course that means that we are horrible ourselves, that's about it for vegans having a sound case.
I'm being manipulated and exploited by Big Pineapple?!
🤪🍍
If Baloo had eaten Mowgli alive…The Jungle Book would probably be a lot less popular.
Mowgli hunted and ate raw meat with the wolves, also he killed and skinned Shere Khan to have himself a striped rug
Me: editing takes forever!
Also me: spends an hour finding a perfect picture of a step ladder with the right amount of steps and formatting the text to depict each step as the steps to Veganism.
worth it
Ex-vegans' comments tend to more outlandish than those from non-vegans. They have to be. After all, they're going back on their word, going back on something they've stated to be true.
I think the truth of their reversion is that they never completely let go of the carnist way of thinking. It was always occupying a big part of their brain but they repressed it for a while. Socialising with non-vegans draws them back in to that world - and that way of thinking magically reappears.
🎯 Absolutely spot-on! They have to double-down because the only other option is admitting to failure or hypocrisy--most people would rather live in La La Land than do either of which.
I hope you don’t mind the “chipmunk mode” editing too much. I did it to save time so that I could include as many posts as possible 🐿
Exploitation of chipmunks. Noted. 😉👍🏻
Yes it’s hard to follow 👂
The chipmunks were working overtime!🥜@@jenerlee
You mean the chipmunk parts were hard to hear? I hoped the combo of the voice with the text on the screen would help@@byronchurch
Great use of time and humane chipmunk employment 🐿
I'm another ex ex-vegan, but do not have a strong enough stomach do delve into this community.. This was an especially incisive analysis of the comments you read, with excellent logical conterpoints, Marielle. To me, as a middle-aged vegan, these people sound like teens on TikTok regurgitating what they heard some older person say on a political podcast as though it was religious kant, ironically, completely unaware that they themselves are doing what they accuse vegans of doing. I hope they grow up, and give veganism a try as psycho-emotional adults, who undertake this lifestyle for ethical reasons and not for other reasons, especailly _dietary fads._ Thanks for posting!
Yes! With so many of these comments I wonder if they actually hear themselves. And totally agree about the age they present as. I said in another comment it reminds me of the subreddit "I'm 14 and this is deep" 😂
I guess the jungle book is the new "circle of life-lion king" excuse
Seems like it 🙃
I am a junk food vegan! The only time I feel bad is when I can no longer fit into my pants which is where I am at right now. Time to get back to the gym lol! I had the same problem before I was vegan. sometimes the best musicians, pro athletes and successful business people do not feel good enough. It inspires them to get better.
Exactly! Vegans don't give a sh!t how anyone eats outside of not eating animal byproducts. Separately, a vegan diet can be extremely healthy and help many people with a range of health issues, including [potentially] weight loss. That doesn't mean the potential health benefits of a vegan diet should be automatically conflated with Veganism, which is basically what happened in every post I responded to 🤦🏻♀️
@@TotallyForkable 💚 good point,
I am also an ex-ex-vegan lol. I was vegan for 5 years and then stopped for what at the time I thought was health reasons. I think I used that as an excuse to succumb to social pressure from friends and family to eat meat again and be “normal”. Looking back I can’t help but be angry with myself for letting the pressure get to me. I didn’t know any other vegans in person and felt super isolated. After seeing the atrocities of animal farming though I can’t not be vegan. I don’t want to be a hypocrite and turn a blind eye to the hell animals go through anymore.
Our stories sound so similar. It's hard when you're the only vegan in your vicinity; our cavewoman/man brains kick in and tell us to join the rest of the villagers or risk danger/exile/etc.
Thank you for sharing your story! I wish there were more of ex-ex-vegans heard, otherwise it seems that thise who ditch veganism once will never come back
My favorite vegan foods have nothing to do with trying to be animal products. I understand the impulse to try to look for the same foods you used to like, but I think as a community we should be better at encouraging people to try tasty foods that are naturally vegan. Handing someone an impossible burger and being like "see, you didn't have to give anything up!" is coming from a good place, but is just not accurate. Meat and dairy taste good, and there's nothing I know of in the vegan world that exactly replicates the taste. And that is FINE. Let's eat some lentil soup and crusty bread instead. 😁
Also, from the male perspective, it's kind of nice having a more moderate libido. Could be a selling point toward some communities. 🤷
Eating saturated fat laden flesh actually kills one's libido it appears. Check out THE GAME CHANGERS 😅
I agree; although the alternatives can be helpful to some, I think where people's minds can truly be blown is in the endless culinary possibilities of plants.
Interesting point on the libido! 🤔
@@TotallyForkable 10 or 15 years ago when people heard "vegan" they thought "salad". Now they think "Impossible burger". I think veganism will finally win when they start thinking "pasta" (or some other naturally vegan comfort food).
Yeah..same for me
What bs. You simulate animal products.
18:00 Your exasperated look here lol Sooo relatable.
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I know, right 😂
I hate that veganism is associated with eating disorders to the point that while watching videos about aninals ethics I always get recommendations like: "how I healed my anorexia". Like really, what is in common?? I have nothing against people recovering from anorexia, but this should not be associated with animal ethics whatsoever. So I always press " Don't show me this video", or "not interested" if such video is recommended under vegan video.
God, that's frustrating!! It's because so many people still see veganism as a "weight loss diet." In the past I've had people comment about my body and then immediately go "oh well it's because you're vegan"--as if I'm doing it to be thin? Or as if it's impossible to be fat and vegan? Unfortunately, though, many people do use "a vegan diet" as a form of restriction.
I would like to question your view at 8:00 when saying there could be a health concern leading for a reason to leave veganism. Personally for myself, I would like to still call people vegan in this case. The definition of veganism is "Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude-as far as is possible and practicable-all forms of animal exploitation" key thing here is as far as most possible and practicable, if someone for whatever reason, lets say is severely allergic to eating plant cellulous or something along those lines and is eating animal products. Honestly if that is the only thing and every other aspect of their life has is being as minimal on animal exploitation as possible, not going to zoos, wearing leather, avoiding dairy and eggs, animal testing etc. I feel like not calling this person vegan would push them to not try at all in those aspects and cause more harm then good.
Similarly, myself and I know many other vegans dont ever buy cosmetic products tested on animals, however I am technically a hypocrite for using medication that has been derived or experimented on animals, but most vegans dont mind this as it is a necessity for survival in many situations. Some animal tested medication use could be under the "as far as possible and practicable". Similarly if someone for whatever scientific reason has to swap an aspect of their plant based diet out for animal exploitation, as paradoxical as it might sound at first, I would still call that person vegan, it doesnt contradict the definition at all. There should never be a health concern or reason to leave veganism. Full stop. Food for thought
I think you bring forth a really interesting point, and it calls into question many the belief that you need to be "perfect" in order to be considered a true vegan. People doing the best they possibly can is certainly commendable, although it does leave room for interpretation and, possibly, questionable excuses (not placing you in this category!).
@@TotallyForkable Yea for sure, this is always something I struggled with to be honest. For example, I make sure all my soap I buy is animal testing free, however when I go to any public washroom I have no idea what they are using at all and by using that soap I am increasing demand for it, same goes for movies, every movie caters animal products to be fed to casts, not to mention animal abuse that can occur on set. And prob the biggest one is with pet food, feeding rats to snakes is always uncomfortable especially knowing that rat is 200% more intelligent and aware of the world then any snake.
These kind of grey areas though, the only thing that helps me is repeating that definition and knowing I am trying my best in a non vegan world and thats all we can really do at the end of the day.
Yes exactly!! This is what I've been saying about Alex O'Connor / Cosmic Skeptic. He gave up being vegan just because his gastrointestinal issues meant he couldn't abstain from meat, when really he could eat meat if it was necessary for his health while continuing to be vegan.
@@D0J0MasterLab-grown mouse meat is being developed for cats, so maybe this product could also be fed to pet snakes in the future?
@@stefanib1040 Oh I really hope so!!
It just seems like carnivores will cling to ANYTHING to justify their decisions to continue to eat animal products. I too in my 14 years of Veganism did waver a few times, due mostly to ignorance on my part. Once I realized the mistakes I made and the consequences of such, I quickly adopted a full Vegan lifestyle. I will never stop being Vegan,
Yes! It's a learning process for many people and while the morals are black & white, there can be a lot of nuance in a person's journey. It's sad that someone questioning their veganism would then turn to a community where veganism is unequivocally called a cult and excessive meat-eating is glorified.
I'm an ex-ex vegan as well...well, kind of! Very similar to what you briefly described, I ate plant based and am going back to it, I'm working on the other parts now like avoiding products tested on animals + removing leather and fur from my wardrobe
its fascinating how veganism is the topic with the most excuses.
I think you meant non-vegans. If vegans wanted to fit in with the majority, not think, and go with the flow, going back to the herd would be the easiest thing in the world.
I think I’d honestly have more respect if people were like “I just couldn’t do it,” instead of giving a Ted Talk on how a vegan diet/veganism is the worst thing ever!
This is too harsh, but I'm going to say it anyway - the cult comparison stuff is so idiotic that I can totally understand how this person fell for Freelee so hard.
I truly think there has to be a strong correlation with age. Most of these posts seemed to be from younger people (under age 25) which is why I tried not to go too hard on the OPs. The comments section was where things tended to get egregious.
@@TotallyForkableThat sounds right - and I'm glad you're being kinder than I am!
This is helpful. I forget that some peoples' ideas of veganism comes from certain raw foodie influencers.
It's always disheartening to be reminded of this 🫠
I used to LOVE whole cows' milk, but now that I've been vegan for about a year I accidentally had it on a couple occasions... and it was disgusting. Now I love soy milk, which is insane because a few years ago I hated it. Taste buds adapt, it's not that deep or complicated.
But just as a side note, the redditor talking about impossible meat being tasteless makes no sense to me. I was eating both real burgers and impossible burgers for a period of time and couldn't taste a difference. I have multiple family members who have eaten both and cannot taste a difference.
I keep trying to go vegan but have a very large number of food allergies, so I don't think it's particularly possible for me as I cannot tolerate most vegetable proteins, including soy, lentils, wheat, many types of nut and many more. Eating nutritional yeast broke me out in hives! I am also allergic to lots of non-protein vegetables like alliums and nightshades, which makes buying premade vegan products almost impossible as most contain onion powder.
I'm convinced by the environmental arguments for veganism, but not the animal rights arguments. Why are other predator animals given a free pass to eat other animals but humans are not? Vegans roll their eyes at this and yet none have given me a very convincing reason why. Most just say something like "we're smarter so we should do better", without providing a substantial moral argument for the idea that "doing better" involves a moral stipulation against eating animals that applies to only our species and no-one else.
In any case, I have found that eating a vegan diet, for me, has resulted in so many health problems each time I try, that it's been a standard I simply can't reach.
Each time I see a vegan talking in aggressively morally certain terms about how evil meat-eaters are, I think easy for you to say! I bet you can just google a vegan recipe, cook it up and then eat it with a sense of satisfied moral superiority. For those of us whose food options are very limited due to important health concerns, this kind of militancy seems obviously flawed. What am I supposed to do, die of malnutrition? Die of anaphylaxis? Just to be vegan?
I have a vegan friend with allergies to soy, nuts, gluten, etc.. I can put you in contact with him if you like?
@@katherine-rosefrank4596 I do not want to be in contact with a stranger but am always open to being given suggestions
On the moral front: predator animals in the wild kill/eat other animals out of necessity. They have no other option and would starve to death if they didn't do that. Many of them are also carnivores, meaning they need animal flesh to survive. To put humans in this same category makes no sense as we 1. do not need to kill or eat animals out of necessity and 2. are not carnivores. Since vegan diets have been proven to be healthy and nutritionally sufficient for most people to consume, continuing to support the mass exploitation and slaughter of animals is a choice, not a necessity. Also, yes, as a species that has the intelligence and ability to create other options and make other choices, I and most vegans believe that is what we should do.
From what you're saying, you fall in the category of the very limited number of people that have a specific type of allergy/medical condition that would make eating vegan much harder if not impossible, so when I say the above, I am not referring to you.
You haven't paid your vegan dues?? How very dare you! Return your vegan card, post haste... 😂
LOLLL. I thought I could skirt by and no one would notice! 🥸
Who made you the vegan police, Jen?! 👮♀ lol Hope you're well, friend and SaLAD! 😊🥗
@@thebowandbullet I made myself the vegan police due to moral superiority we all feel. 😅 (Despite being dead for the last 3 years due to protein deficiency ☠️🤣) Good to see you in the comments, friend and absolute saLAD. 🤗💚
@@jenerlee That makes sense. I need to collect my badge! lol 😎
"User error" 😅 I have to remember to use this one. lol
I do my best not to ad hominem, but when people claim to be ex-vegan after they based their entire idea of veganism on 1 influencer who's probably not vegan either and who, let's be honest, they only followed because they wanted to lose weight or believe that diet can miraculously cure everything, it's hard not to think they're on the far-left side of the intelligence bell curve. They never knew what veganism was, claimed they were vegan while they were just on a plant-based diet (and probably an extreme one, like fruitarian and sun-gazing), claimed veganism made them sick without describing how they ate and without consulting medical professionals, and then get offended when actual vegans point this out (regardless of tone).
Exactly! And any level of pointing-out will be classified as "cult-like abuse/vegan-on-vegan hate." Glad you like "user error;" it fits for most ex-vegans (including my former self) 🙃
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I don’t eat plant based for my health. I’m vegan for the animals. If I wasn’t vegan I would eat junk food and so I eat junk food as a vegan. It don’t understand why people think vegans must be so healthy. Literally eat wherever you would normally eat but make it vegan.
Exactly! Vegan diets can be super healthy but don't have to be. "Veganism" and "plant-based for health" get conflated far too often unfortunately.
Thank you for pointing out that the raw vegan community on TH-cam has absolutely nothing to do with veganism. 💚🌱😊
💯 and people continuing to inextricably link the two can only come down to willful ignorance.
I feel the part about your relationship with food having never been better. I've tried many vegan versions of foods that I'd otherwise never tried because of how unappetizing they sound. For example, I recently discovered caesar salad and the non-vegan version of that sounds repulsive (a creamy sauce made out of eggs and fish - horrible). vegan foods just feel "cleaner".
I also went vegan at fourteen and lost a lot of weight simply because I had no idea what to eat. I'm surprised I was never shown any concern about whether or not I had an eating disorder.
Wow, I had a _very_ similar story except mine was going vegetarian at 13 (losing weight etc). If you managed to stay vegan from then on I'm impressed! And I so agree about vegan versions of things being more appetizing. A few years ago I hosted a weekend away with a bunch of people. I made chickpea salad for lunch one day and someone said "I always thought I didn't like tuna salad, but it turns out I just don't like tuna."
@@TotallyForkable this month marks twelve years of being vegan, never quit even though my family still thinks it's a phase
4:44 People apparently have no idea what cults are.
With the amount of reaching that poster is doing, probably any group of people pushing for any cause would classify as a cult.
There's a reason why sources listing signs of cults use the specific terms they do. The purpose is not to draw analogies from that, nor to treat it as hyperbolic, like that poster is doing, but to take those things at face value. Otherwise you'll end up concluding not that it's a cult, but that it's an analogy to a cult.
People like Freelee might employ a few cult-like tactics, but even that is still very far from an actual cult.
13:15 I like how they refer to factory farming as "forming friendships". I wouldn't want to know what sort of friends that poster has... Their word-salad argument is that people can't survive or thrive without meat, which is obviously false, given that vegans exist. I have no idea where they got the "large brain" idea from - we have a lot of body parts that need nutrients. I reckon they're just trying to sound smart, but they don't want to say e.g. "we can't get enough protein" or "we can't get enough B12", because then someone can debunk that by pointing them to vegan sources of those nutrients.
Exactly!! The level of mental gymnastics could win a medal at the Paris Olympics! 🥉 Sadly I have heard the "big brain" thing before--that homo sapiens only evolved to have such large brains due to our consumption of animal protein. Even if that's true--why, hundreds of thousands of years later, would we still need to do that?!
A lot of the comments on the posts remind me of the subreddit r/Im14andthisisdeep 🙃 www.reddit.com/r/im14andthisisdeep
Another great video! Thank you for the being my favorite vegan youtuber!
Your support means everything! 🙏🏻💖
I can see why people who look at veganism in a health focused way would look for a ladder to grow into the healthier way of eating since it simplifies all the nutrition knowledge needed to make the most healthy decisions. There's way too much data about nutrition everywhere for anyone to find what is "the most healthy" way of eating and they look for people who will thell them what it is whatever what the food end up being.
This is a really good point. Unfortunately so many people find the wrong ladder to climb 😖
So on point with your responses 🫡
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when they say things like what can you do..LOLthats how things are!! and here we are vegans.
Nothing can be done...NOTHING!
People on that sub are unhinged af. "animal abuse is justified because it makes me hungry" or *insert myth about amino acids in proteins*
As long as someone wants to do something, they will find justification for it.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this! I got sucked down the r/exvegan rabbithole and was feeling really discouraged, so it is really great to hear another vegan go through a bit of it and break down the cognitive dissonance.
The hardest part of being vegan really is the social aspect, in my opinion. Sometimes I wish I could take the "blue pill" and feel "normal" again. I live in the south surrounded by carnist friends and family. It has definitely gotten easier since I started college, but the pressure is absolutely still everywhere. Thankfully, my morals have been enough to keep me going. Hearing from others (especially an ex-ex-vegan!) who get it really helps!
Absolutely. Finding your "people" is so important, and being in the south must be tough. Carnism is drilled into everyone from a young age and completely normalized; it's hard feeling like the "not normal" one all the time. I'm sorry you are struggling with that aspect and hope you are able to find more of a community! 💕
You’re such a clear-minded and fun presenter. I wish this channel (like most vegan media) got a thousandth of the engagement it deserved. ❤
Thank you so much for the kind words; every comment helps 💖🙏🏻
"Jungle Book tho" hahahahaha!
New carnist excuse unlocked! 🤣🐻
Subscribed! Thank you for what you are doing
You're so welcome; glad you're here! 💖
Also very random but I loveee your curtains!
Thanks Amy!! 🤗 It took me forever to decide on a color but I've been very happy with my choice!
I corrected all of these health problems: loose teeth, bleeding gums, sensitive teeth, blocked sinuses, mouth breathing, left eye twitches, heartburn, calf cramps, yellow stool, blood in stool, edema below the knees, pain in feet when walking, I can stay out in the sun longer without burning or peeling, shoulder/neck pain after waking up, lower back stiff/pain-twinge free since Nov 2022 after an operation in 2005
With a carnivore diet 4 years ago and I'm still on the diet :)
Good for you, taking care of yourself and your health should be your top priority. 🎉
💚🐾🌱💚🐾🌱💚🐾🌱💚🐾🌱
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I was whole food plant based for 5 years. I developed tooth sensitivity that resulted in a broken tooth, I developed some physical injuries that never healed all the way and I was constantly bloated with bad gas. I added ghee and eggs things improved. I am now doing carnivore and my old injuries healed quickly. My inflammation went down tremendously almost instantly. I wasn’t expecting this at all. I am adding different plant foods one at a time to see which ones cause inflammation or gas in me. I tried almost every version of a whole food plant based diets. I took the Cornell plant based diet course. I will see what plants my body doesn’t react to and see what my next step may be.
I wish you the best.
I think that the majority of people who go vegan go back to meat eating because our society is really weak. In many places we find ourselves alone, and then we start loosing the friends we used to have. The "I want to be normal again" comes from the lack of social connection. I wish I could speak to another vegan every day. But I live in Central Florida and there is no one here. And our apps are not in a manner that we could face time. We need to have better apps. A better way of connecting and helping each other. Because the great sacrifice of being vegan is not food or taste any more. We can find great tasting foods and foods that taste just like meat, eggs and cheese. It is the loneliness that becomes the sacrifice.
Even as an introvert who rarely cares what other people think, I do find it annoying having to reveal I'm vegan at work. Every time, I get dumb comments. It would never change my moral stance, but it does grate on one's nerves. I can't imagine if my identity was entirely dependent on other people. I have a few close people; they're not all vegan, but they're all respectful and very good people. That's enough for me.
Wow, this is really insightful. The desire to "belong" is a powerful and integral part of the human experience. I'm assuming you are in local Facebook groups etc, which is a great step, but maybe organizing meet-ups? Are there any local vegan festivals? Animal sanctuaries to volunteer at? Social media has been very helpful for me but you're right unless we can take it to Facetime or in person at some point that can often further feelings of loneliness.
@@TotallyForkable No there are no vegan groups here. On top of that, we have a fascist local government that gangs up people to bather those that are different. The only thing I have is social media, but writing is not as good as actually talking. I feel like I am living in a deserted island.
@@TotallyForkable The worst part is, so many activist making people vegan, but then they find themselves sinking in the quick sand of loneliness, and go back to eating meat. And more over, some even might get angry at vegans for the situation they went through. The fact that there was no one there for them. Many of them feel betrayed. We need badly to take this under serious consideration. Until we do, our activism in many areas is almost a waste of time. We can do so much better.
@@samuelmiensinompe4902 having a connection to other vegans is very important, you're absolutely correct. Particularly when so many of our closest people PRE vegan take a step back when we become vegan. I'm fortunate to have a few good friends who didn't do that, and found a new good friend who is vegan. I like Marielle's suggestions, and one to add from me is challenge22. There are so many amazing people in the group (from all over the world), and you can either do the challenge as a mentee or mentor (assuming you're vegan longer than 6 months). There are personal mentors for extra support and a group you can join afterwards for ongoing support. Many activists suggest groups like this so that people CAN get off to a good start and hopefully make connections with others. I hope you are doing ok. 💚
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Lots of points nicely and thoughtfully debunked.
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12:00 We eat animals _to survive._ It's nutrition. It's not killing for pleasure.
If meat-eaters killed for pleasure there would be no animals left. There would be 8 billion people going around slaying cats and dogs and cattle too. That's not how it goes. Eating is pleasurable but only until we are satisfied, we don't go killing animals beyond the points of having the food we need to feed ourselves and our families.
You seem to think that eating meat is optional, I don't. I predict your grand-grand-sons and daughters would be still-born or infertile if you went on a vegan diet and it continued down the lines. Just like Pottengers cats could only survive three generations of eating cooked foods. Veganism leaves us nutritionally depleted, and our children has to suffer the consequences of that. They will have terrible teeth for starters. They will be weak, and weaker still by the generation. It's abuse. Vegans are abusing themselves first and foremost, but their offspring will suffer too. It could be called child abuse.
And going back to the "killing for pleasure" argument vegans seem to kill so many more animals than meat-based people do. Because that's what growing crops entail. It's a slaughter when you mow down animals with a harvester, shoot deer or birds or behead snakes etc. Then there is the pesticides that kill the bees and ends pollination. The pesticides find their way to us as well when you eat your crops, I guess we could say it may be killing people. Then there is the downsizing of natural habitat to make room for avocado farms, almond farms, whatever.
Hence eating beef is morally superior to veganism in every way. So are vegans killing for pleasure if they cause more death and destruction? Forget about ear-tags! That's the least of our worries.
So many words. So little sense.
@@iansomerville ProTIEn ANDN faaattt g00d. Pllllatns olny MEDICnei.
Sometimes I think about how I’m in an echo chamber with the people I surround myself with. But I don’t think there are any arguments against veganism as a whole. Sure for individuals it may not work because it’s inaccessible or not good for their specific health condition. As a whole I cannot see any argument for being cruel to animals when so many can thrive on a vegan diet.
Exactly! It's pretty simple when you get down to brass tacks, but many people overcomplicated it to justify their internal struggles. And I feel you on the echo chamber thing; we are very lucky to have like-minded people around!
About the libido, as a 31 yo female and vegan for the animals, I can say I never felts better xD also heavy periods are gone
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Cause no iron left😂
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I appreciate your tolerant, gentle approach.
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as an ex vegan myself for 8 years, and carnivore for 6 years I can honestly say that it did increase my testosterone quite a bit (from 300ish to 650ish on average) and it reduces my inflammatory markers drastically (esr, CRP, and calprotectin). especially calprotectin which was of interest for me having crohns which was pretty uncontrolled as a vegan. I don't know what to tell ya. I feel radically better than i did as a vegan and I tried so hard to make it work. believe me I miss a lot of vegan food. IT just made me feel awful. ..and I'm not being dramatic, I had 3 surgeries to remove damaged colon when I was vegan because of the inflammation. all that went away when I changed my diet. I have not been in the hospital since, I have not even had to take prednisone since.
I'll also add that one of those colon resection surgeries I had as a vegan nearly killed me as I became septic and was in a coma for a week.
You were never a vegan.
@@ladyaudrey9976 6 years, never cheated even accidentally
@@s7r49 cheated what a bizarre way to talk animal abuse.
You ate some vegetables, you were not a vegan.
They now have a post discussing this video.
And? What’s your point?
Why on earth do you answer like that, is something wrong with you? I thought someone might be curious what they say.
@@xyhmoHer name has broken in it lmao. She can’t cope with the fact that she’s responsible for the worst atrocities ever committed on this planet
@@justanotherguy12 yeah but my comment didn't even have a pro (or anti) vegan message, i wasn't taking a stand on anything, lol. And it was mostly directed to our host in case she wants to know their reaction and didn't know.
@@justanotherguy12 you’re a complete nut case, please seek help.
1st
Welcome, friend! 😊
Cool, the sub is getting famous.
this is the dangers of social media! apart from TH-cam i stay away from the echo chambers of idiots and grifters! never eating animals is awesome for me! i really dont care if other people want to talk sh!t as thats all it is!!! 💚
So true; people have to be wary of the information they're taking in, especially, as I said, children and young adults.
I was gaslit by my tastebuds that convinced me to live vegan food 😂❤
The delicious cult of morals 🫡
@@TotallyForkable spoken like a true cult leader forcing your morals onto people
🤪@@KerriEverlasting
such absurd comments serve no purpose other than an attempt to ridicule, how does it feel when you’re on the receiving end?
23:27 hahaha
🪄🙃
Great video
❤️🙏🏻
This group sounds like it should be called r/howicopetosleepbetteratnight
🎯😬
You just described veganism
No, the group is appropriately named because they are no longer vegans. Each have their own reasons, each valid and deserving of respect and consideration, just as you equally deserve respect and consideration for the dietary or lifestyle choices that you make for yourself.
@@brokenaura23 What you’re doing here is called victim-erasure and pretending that all of this is about is a diet choice. Just curious, do you respect the Jeffrey Dahmer diet?
@@fullcircle_networkNo, that’s not what I’m ‘doing’ - At all. Your perverted ‘Truth’ does not resemble my grounded Truth. You have only to accept that because you have absolutely no power over it. So go hit somebody else with your absurd & incongruent argument.
_"Vegan"_ objectively fits the definition of the word _cult._ It's origin is as a _religious practice_ amongst Jain ascetics. It is purposeful self-torture. And it was never intended to go on for extended periods of time as a way of life, and it was usually supervised and only for certain kinds of people. You couldn't be weak, pregnant and probably not of fertile age either etc.
Furthermore if you accept the definition of a "cult" as a group that is subjugated by an idea then it's a double whammy. Veganism _is_ an idea you subjugate yourself to, and live by.
Our modern vegetarian movement is also funded by the seventh day Adventists. It's a Christian sect that believes we ate plants in the garden of Eden, and they own a lot of cereal companies etc. to make it so again. Kelloggs is a well known example, with their catch-phrase "breakfast is the most important meal of the day." Total lie, but it was a big success. The seventh day Adventists also own a ton of universities and push their agenda through them.
-What is the issue with veganism, then? In short it's simply that humans are not adapted to eating plants and carbs, but to eat meat. For instance we have lost our cecum, so now when people eat fiber they get bacterial overgrowth. SIBO/IBS, arthritis from P.copri. We lost our cecum, because humanity evolved from eating plants to eating meat. Only a tiny appendix remains. It gets inflamed from time to time, and then we have to operate. Why? Quite possibly due to an inadequate diet.
Plant-based diets is in our archaic past. Eating meat was our evolution. All the reasons why are eminently summarized by Miki Ben-Dor in his study _"The evolution of the human trophic level during the Pleistocene,"_ available for free online.
Modern-day Veganism has nothing to do with Jainism, although they share the principles of avoiding harm to animals. Modern-day Veganism was coined in 1944, with the person coining the term saying: “the vegan renounces it as superstitious that human life depends upon the exploitation of these creatures whose feelings are much the same as our own,” and advocated “living without exploitation" and “that man should live without exploiting animals.” No mention of self-punishment.
Jainism involves many practices, a few of which are fasting and food restriction. This is not in any way, shape or form a part of Veganism. Implying that the point of modern Veganism is “self-punishment” goes to show that you have incredibly limited knowledge on the subject. Also, are you really comparing the modern world to that of 2,500 years ago, when Jainism originated? Avoiding animal products would have been an entirely different experience in 600 BCE than it is now.
Since you’re a vegan who doesn’t get enough vital nutrients and vitamins, I don’t really expect your critical thinking abilities to be strong enough to understand any of this.
My blood panels are always fine ✅
@@TotallyForkablewell, that’s not a predictable statement. At all. Perhaps make a video proving this be the case, it would actually be quite simple to do 😊
@@TotallyForkablegetting your lab work and presenting the results, is not going to reveal anything but, your lab results and stores. Don’t bother with some privacy argument, let’s see you back up your statement here. It would certainly be to your benefit if what you state is indeed the case 😊
@@brokenaura23you’re responsible for the worst atrocities ever committed in the history of our planet
@@justanotherguy12 of course I am, you got me. I’m Attila the Hun reincarnated. I genuinely feel it’s in your best interest if you simply refrain from commenting. I think most Vegans would view you as extreme (I’m being kind here) and not representative of most in the community. I know this because I have Vegan friends and we have many respectful conversations. As it should be.
Ex-vegans being a thing (more of them than actual vegans) makes me happy knowing most of you will figure it out before it's too late. You can leave the self harming cult before malnutrition forces you out or kills you and loving, supportive children of God will help you recover.
How are you measuring that there's more ex-vegans than actual vegans? The vegan subreddit alone is 1.5 million strong while the ex vegan one is sitting at 28.6 thousand.
@@TotallyForkable pretty sure it was mic the vegan or Joey Carbstrong...I didn't realize subreddit was the gold standard. Many older adults are not on social platforms.
There is no such thing as an ex=vegan,. I have been vegan for over 30 years, raised 3 vegan children. Veganism is not a diet, it is an ethical stance, a rights movement.
Exactly!
What complete nonsense, of course there are ex vegans and the numbers will continue to grow as voices such as yours continue to do more harm than good. Hurling only insults and attempting to inflict guilt in others is truly, truly deplorable.
That’s complete nonsense, of course ex-vegans exist and their numbers will only increase. If your aim is to help guide others into Veganism, you’re failing miserably.
Triggered by people that don't want to be in the cult anymore
😂 Carnivore here, just stoped by to checkout the other side. 🤔 About what I expected.
Ma'am, you do not understand cults or what makes a belief system cultish.
I was literally responding to the points put forth by a commenter on the subreddit.
"byproducts of animal suffering"
That's how brainwashed people speak. The only purpose why these animals suffer is for the production of these products.
It's already questionable to say products of animal suffering because it's products of animal bodies that are won for human consumption by killing these animals and doing much more.
An actual meaningful phrasing is "products whose making requires the cruel exploitation and killing of animals"
This isn't softer. It's just using language as others understand it instead of actively alienating them!
If you speak of byproducts, you are inferring that non-vegans eat byproducts which are not actually decent food but just biological trash as it would be fed to pigs. So, indirectly, you're inferring that humans who eat meat are on the evolutionary level of pigs - which is an insult. It makes people less perceptive to your arguments, strengthening your beliefs that nobody cares about this.
And "of animal suffering": This phrasing implies that the animal suffering is the actual point here, not the creation of food.
Think about the picture you're painting: Someone is torturing animals for the sake it and non-vegans eat the biological waste that comes from this process.
To announce that this is what someone eating a salami pizza is to you, that's quite abhorrent and it makes you come across as an arrogant and also just insane person.
And it's not the message but the phrasing, so you might have to read this comment multiple times to understand the difference I'm pointing out.
I'm afraid but while I know little about cults with charismatic leaders, I know that this is an example of how modern (!) brainwashing works: Get a phrasing like this established in a group and they will start to make really bad experiences with outsiders. So, the group radicalizes further, making it even easier to inject even mote such phrases. The only reason you used to need a charismatic leader was because this definition is back from before the internet creates memes that can do the same but more subtle and almost impossible to trace back.
I think the whole trans and terf and whatever else there is, those new radical belief systems that just pop up for some years now, they're created with the same technology...
Are you done using your victim card and ready to acknowledge the atrocities you pay for on a daily basis?
@@justanotherguy12blah blah victim card blah blah atrocities you commit or pay for blah blah you are responsible for blah blah history of our planet blah blah - Did I miss something you nutjob?
@@justanotherguy12 let me explain something to you:
I hsve issues eating properly. Trying to go vegan makes it worse to a point that I lose my ability to feed myself sufficiently. From that perspective, you trying to implant guilt and shocking images into my mind for your agenda, disregarding that if you were to succeed, that could lead to my death. Ergo, you are to me someone who already tries to kill me willingly or unwillingly for your crazy beliefs. They're crazy because you go over the corpses of your fellow humans for them. You think that by harming other people you deem worse thsn yourself, you can free yourself of your own guilt. Bec
Because we all are harming our environment. It's part of who we are as a species. If you're vegan, that really doesn't change anything. Animal cruelty is shocking and feels really bad if you think about it but it's not even part of how we endanger the entire ecosystem. If you really want to cause no harm, you need to first ensure that nobody will do something insane because you're missing from their life and to then end this existence of yours. I'm not suggesting that. I just wish for you to be able to see how what you're doing is mostly being the sort of people that inspire other people to eat twice as much meat just to spite you.
Now, I'm not in a victim mentality. Victims die. I'm a surviver.
You however: What are you really achieving? Aren't you the one who is trying to frame me in a way that allows you to feel like a victim?
@@freyja802 Mega victim card activated. If you cared about animals you’d go see a nutritionist instead of making excuses for the atrocities you pay for. I could easily claim that only human meat puts my health issues into remission. Would I be justified to cause infinite suffering? If you feel guilty, that’s not my problem. That’s your conscience speaking.
@@justanotherguy12 What atrocities? I am not doing anything to the animals and I also don't lobby against alternatives like you do. My conscience is clear. But you should be ashamed of what you're doing to those animals... By abusing veganism as a pseudo reason for your aggressions against fellow humans, you create opposition against anything connected to veganism.
Also: I feel attacked by what you wrote and I am afraid but you're forcing me to prove once again that any attempt to mess with my free will inevitably backfires. Meaning: For the next week, I will prioritize having as much meat as I can in my diet. I still have the aforementioned issues and it won't make a massive difference but I will for sure eat more meat than I would have if you hadn't attacked me like this. So, that's your doing.
Congratulations: You achieved tje opposite of what you aimed for..