The Best Response to a Giant Ego | Jocko Willink | The Debrief
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 พ.ย. 2023
- Former Navy SEAL and Extreme Ownership co-author Jocko Willink and TOPGUN and Echelon Front Instructor Dave Berke on how to handle your boss' big ego.
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#extremeownership #leadership #podcast - บันเทิง
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Good bosses take criticism and listen. Good subordinates give constructive feedback to their boss. Feedback should go both ways.
Werd.
@KDjJ
Great point. The outcome of criticism or feedback is often based first on your relationship with that person...up, down or across the chain of command. If you have strong relationships, feedback for the sake of improvement is much easier.
I agree with Jocko to a point... You should always be respectable and respectful to the people you work with. **But** if they're being disrespectful to you, your work, your safety, Etc. Then you have an obligation to speak up and say that it is not appropriate. Too many people just do nothing about it, so the jerks get more jerky, the bullies get more aggressive, the lazy losers do less and less work. Nobody's there to discipline people from their own Ridiculousness and things will only get worse!
Instituting "discipline" is a whole other category. I get your frustration in this conversation because bullies usually carry on till they get a dose of "discipline" to change their ways but don't get caught up in being sheriff of the work-place, rather approach the issue with example by which to follow. Eventually, bullies will get the leadership approach and results speak for themselves. Bullies are not usually long-term thinkers but always reverting to short-term objectives. Think long-term tactful objectives in shaping a bullie's end results. Leaders play chess, not checkers. IMO Good luck, by luck I mean being prepared when the opportunity presents itself to do the right thing and lead by example. Thank you for sharing.
Haven't been in the military, but I've been working plenty of shit blue collar work since I was 14. The one thing that will make or break someone, as a leader, in their subordinate's eyes is really something as simple as a tiny bit of empathy. Any man that has ever tried to throw on needless negative bullshit after someone has made a mistake has lost the respect of every person working for them, even the ones that are asskissers wanting promotions. No respectable man whose biography I've read or have encountered in person resorts to such pettiness. I've met plenty of petty people that claim to be men. It's a trait that becomes more apparent the more power people are given over others. Remember boys, success breeds narcissicm. If you don't curtail it yourself, you'll become a clown.
HO-LY-CRAP. This is almost exactly what I went through one time. I sent a message about something that was done that was not good for other people on the team (it wasn't just about me), it was only between my boss and me (not public or to anyone else), and got called to the mat. The boss' ego totally flared up in that meeting, my job was dangled in front of me (threatened to be fired), and so I just let my ego calm down, and took it, and apologized for the way it affected my boss (even though I did nothing wrong). I love what you said at 5:40 - "I can't forcibly subordinate your ego." I need to subordinate my ego in that moment to disarm the other person's ego.
What this conversation missed, is that what you describe and they talk about is normal, but if the ship keeps sinking and the captain keeps being ignorant and put people down, then things start to boil up and it’s no longer possible to to be ‘forgiving’. And then it’s about going to war what his task at the Seals was, use plain old violence to solve problems that’s the irony of these talks.
The most evil thing you can do is punish good behavior. Let that resonate boss man.
Taking responsibility is not only words. The magic happens when’s it’s a realization.
Extreme Ownership works
100%. Taking ownership and responsibility is a mindset shift. When you automatically own the problem and your fault in it, you gain control over the solution.
Years ago, I was in a meeting where I spoke to a peer who was leading a project in a way that felt I owed him an apology - the substance of my disagreement was good, but my delivery could've been better. I had a conversation where I apologized for it and he ostensibly accepted. The next meeting he decided to "dress me down" in front of the group that were in the previous meeting. I stood up for myself letting him know that was no way to talk to someone who owned up to a mistake. People who take apologies as wins shouldn't be in leadership, at least, they will not be leading me.
when someone apologizes - say thanks.
that's it.
Im gonna make a small tweek.
When a subordinate apologizes say thanks, no need to rub it in.
When a colleague apologizes do a little mutual reflection say thanks and note to him one way you couldve handled the situation better yourself.
It creates a coworker mutual repsect to consdier each others pov and feelings.
@@themightykabool yes it isn't necessary to berate you blokes because they were humble enough to admit they were wrong...however it is necessary to be stricter if the same mistakes constantly happen
@@mikeyblueeyes8449 i agree.
also
Pokayoke came up in conversation at work this week.
If a 'failure' happens its either -
1. Not understanding. Follow the process and find the disconnect.
2. The process leaves too much room for error. Idiot proof it. Pokayoke it. Reduce unnecessary steps or distractions.
3. The worst - uncaring.
I had one boss, i can work with stupid+effort. But i CANNOT work with stupid+uncaring.
Quite the sermon
Once again Jocko. You’re the man.
Seeing Jocko…being a little more alive, idk it’s a good energy. This is my favorite video. Not just a good video but great energy man.
Great series of videos.. stumbled upon these but actually got a great deal out of them
Jocko for President. 🇺🇸🫡
We tried to talk him into it
His President Jocko videos were cringe a f. His world view is through the lens of an imperial soldier. No way that makes a good president.
A local elder veteran in a my area loves it when other people submit to him, especially women and (I can't even say the other part) it pleases him in a delightful kind of way.
Lincoln, Nebraska
More people need to actively control their egos. We all need to, but many are obviously hardly trying.
Absolutely! Would you rather be happy? Or would you rather be right? Oftentimes you can't have both....
such a good advice !
The RM should have said "hey, it's all good, I understand you're operating from a place of passion like I do. You need to know we're on the same side, so let's try to communicate a little better in that light moving forward."
Good stuff.
This is a situation I have faced several times in the manufacturing setting.
There is an excess of people who are stuck in that line of work and are just miserable because of it.
Focus on building the best relationship you can with your chain of command
Wait, sorry but, can you not question your chain of command at all? like before you wake up and realise you've wasted your whole life listening to lesser beings in exchange for a miserable wage?@@leifbabin1512
They are not stuck. They are free to leave at any time.
@@zion367 Free to leave, yes. Able to find employment that they're not only qualified for but also provides at least the same pay or benefits? Not always, especially if they've been with the company a long while. Golden handcuffs are a real thing.
@@whozyourdaddy Fact still is that they are not stuck.
NIGHTLAB APPROVED
As someone with a street mentality I'm trying to curb, these videos have been very helpful. A lot of times being the tough guy is the worst thing you can do for a positive long term goal in a professional setting. Being a leader requires effective communication while keeping the goal in sight. My own ego is unimportant but it's hard to take it out of the equation sometimes, especially when another ego is involved.
You're definitely showing insight into yourself and seeing where your own behavior can conflict with your own goals. A lot of people never get that far. Good luck and persevere.
Whenever someone says something... like take ownership and then says the word "but" that word basically diminishes everything that was said prior to it - it signifies the excuse for the actions. "I know I was an a-hole... but... I had a bad night" or whatever. See what happens. The word "but" excuses the actions.
Listen to Jocko again. Never say "but". Never accept "but".
We agree. Needing to use the work "but" when taking ownership is simply our ego. Let's put our ego in a box and see the truth of the situation and take FULL OWNERSHIP. Thanks @geotactics
@@EchelonFront "but what I was trying to say was..." is a reasonable but. If I value a subordinate, then he/she should be able to rearticulate themselves, try again to say what is important to them. If as a leader you "shoot the messenger", then you risk missing honest communication that could impact the product, quality, performance, etc.
"Never accept but" lacks important nuance.
Lead in the absence of leadership
Some bosses hate it when their subordinates speak up. I know a police chief who hates anyone speaking up, if someone does he “attacks” them. Funny part he loves Jocko and echelon front. He never practices what he preaches, but thinks he is doing a great job.
Yes that's a classic case of someone not having introspective skills ;)
It’s not about ego but about frustration that’s been boiling for a longer time. In that case the boss has been completely ignorant for a long time, and he just confirmed that he will keep on doing so which ads insult to injury. If there was only a little frustration to begin that sparked this off and there was respect then it’s easy to submit, and hardly any sting.
Find out what you want. Find out what is the most effective way to get what you want. Decide what is more important to you. Your ego or the goal. From here on every decision is easy.
Werd.
This leads to inauthenticity. It is a good method if we dont care about selfdevelopment and only care about gains, but if we are all about self empowerment we want to stand our ground and stay true to ourselves.
@@zion367 Then your goals are selfdevelopment and truth. Now find out what you have to do to achieve that and go for it. Same principle applies to everything. You just need to know what you want.
Jocko hit the nail on the head with this one
He always does
If we are genuine in our ownership of a problem, the response from the RM “Yeah it is your fault”, is not met with a surprise, but with a “…and here’s how we’re going to improve/ not let it happen again”… A challenge is in being sincere and genuine in your ownership. Look past the delivery, look at the content of the position.
I shouldn't have communicated that way = I'm entirely wrong & you're entirely right
(Don't apologize when you're right, even if your communication is bad.)
Not bumping heads and getting results that's how it should be
Sure it wasn't assistant to the regional manager?
So the boss should ignore the accurate information on bettering his business but instead focus on the employees frustration with mediocrity? The huge ego is with BOTH men. How do you guys not see that?
Wasn’t just submitting to hierarchical superiors’ orders kinda talked through at Nuremberg?
No. What he is suggesting is to be a fake person. A strategical person. But... the frequency of authenticity is the most powerful frequency of all... so why exchange that for a temporary gain?
All the others who work under such toxic person also need to learn to become empowered. You saving them all the time seems noble, but it stagnates their growth.
If you want to do the best for everyone involved, do what is best and most true for you. That way you pave the way for others to get inspired and follow.😊
Use that as a starting point to Create chaos and then sit back and watch it unfold as he has to deal with it. 😂😂😂
"Okay boss, now that we've established, and confirmed, that I f'd up the presentation, let's keep focus on the points I was attempting to open up to you about... Don't let my crappy way of informing you negate the reality of the problems I've identified or the validity of my proposed solutions. Can we discuss those?"
Spirit should be master of the temple and ego, the servant.
I wish you would run for president.
I think Jocko forgets a lot of people are stuck in a job they don't even want to do. Don't get me wrong, it's hard to control your ego if you're working a job you DO like (because then you can just go "hey I'm liking this job") but if you're working a job you hate that just acts extra layers of resentment hurting your probably fragile ego even more.
Think bigger
Take ownership. If you let your ego hurt you then you’re becoming weak. Do what you have to do in your job with your mouth shut , go home, but when you’re home you better have an objective to work towards, otherwise you’ll be stuck at that job forever.
Even if they are doing a job they hate. I believe they would have to relook at their personal goals and modulate from it. Such as why is this job important to you? What needs to happen for you to enjoy it?
@@sabrinadeangelis3374 yes or atleast how can I enjoy this more if I actually just use this job as a stepping stone to be able to do what I want to do...obviously that is difficult because time is also a factor but if someone really wants to find a way then they generally can :)
A great strategy for delivering criticism is "acting like you're stupid". Because if you say "Hey boss, I know that the plan was XYZ, but that doesn't take into account ABC", you're butting heads, and that can have two outcomes: You win the battle or you lose the battle. If they win, they're just gonna steamroll you, and you're gonna look stupid. If you win, they get steamrolled, now they're gonna feel stupid.
So instead you say "Hey, boss, that plan we had? Yea, about that. I really don't understand how it addresses this ABC problem we have. Can you explain it to me?" It's great for a couple of reasons: The most obvious is that you make them explain to you. And if they have to explain, they have to think it through. And if they can't explain, because the plan WAS flawed, then you didn't say that they were stupid, you were just asking how to navigate the problems that emerge. And if it turns out they were correct, you come away smarter, and avoid the embarrassment.
On the other hand, word things cordially and still be straight.
Forgiveness is a two way street. If someone sincerely asks for forgiveness, and you give it. Don't bring it up, again. Unless they do it, again.
If you’re not Sincere about taking the blame, you shouldn’t take it because people will test you to see if you were sincere
Ive personally seen him forcibly subordinate egos lol. Granted, they were terrorists and enemies. But still. Hes different with allied superiors i 100 % admit.
It's called "agree and amplify"
Ha!
Care to elaborate.
So, dismantling a bomb rather than becoming a bomb? 💣
I think the issue is, that culturally/systemically we have never democratised the workplace, so the bossman always gets the upperhand with ego tripping and putting down subordinates, which in itself is fine if we were in 1800s, but in modern times this level of disrespect is just going to create a further toxic culture.
Some bosses live for feeling power over others. They will make subordinates' lives difficult for the sole sake of enjoying power, even if the work is negatively impacted.
The way to deal with such people is to fight them or to quit. You can't 'build a relationship' with them that isn't a weird non-sexual sado-masochistic one.
I told my boss he didn't set me up for success once and he got pissy
Sounds to me like you have a problem with authority.
@@paddyotoole2058 you are confusing authority with subservience...
There needs to be a chain of command. But relationships are built through Trust, Listen, Respect and Influence
just realized Echo looks little pale.. what happen to Echo ? are they not a team anymore.?
This guy sounds exactly like chaco with a higher pitch voice
The only thing I submit to you is that you cant stop it.
Im currently dealing with a guy I work with, who is over me, with a gigantic ego. Borderline sociopath. If you're not kissing his ass and want to be friends with him and listen to him bragg about himself for hours and hours on end, he passive aggressively punishes you. He makes mistakes all day long but will ALWAYS point out your mistakes, as small as they are. He really makes me nervous. He seems like a ticking time 🧨. Any advice to give someone in my position? Do I go to the office and request to be put in another crew? Im thick skinned but this guy told me his life story within an hour of meeting him all the while fishing for sympathy. That, right off the bat was a 🚩🚩🚩 to me. Its only gotten worse. Any advice helps. Thanks Jocko and anyone who reaponds.
You should talk to a therapist and a mentor if you can for some advice. Extreme Ownership is a radical idea and really effective, but you can’t be responsible for other people’s problems all of the time. Imagine giving Jocko’s extreme ownership advice to a battered wife or someone else in a domestic violence situation. “Take responsibility for upsetting the person and making them want to hit you”. It’s complete BS. Wrong tool for the job. My point being that his advice isn’t gospel, nor is it remotely appropriate in certain situations. If your coworker is opening up to you, that might be an opportunity to provide support to him and build him up and perhaps the ego goes down because he feels more emotionally secure. But if he is indeed a person who does not mean well or doesn’t have the capacity to do good, then moving might be your best bet.
I lived with a dad like that, so was in a similar position I suppose.
You get good with "Mmm" and "uh huh"s and steer conversations back to practical matters without seeming like youre interrupting.
Its good you identify him as a sort of snake, youre neither required to kiss ass or to have those fangs pointed at you.
Jocko also addresses this in "On how to deal with snakes" in a short.
Move to a new team , it will only get worse he has too much personal issues he hasn’t dealt with and will take it out on you more and more each day … don’t waste any more of your energy and time be around people who will lift you up and challenge you
@@mgl2255 this is also a valid strategy
LOL YES
1:17 When did being honest become an excuse for being a jerk to people? I see this everywhere in our culture these days.
@3:06 this is exactly my experience at work. I can't take ownership outwardly because if I do I will look weak to my employer and they get a high off of this type of engagement which sets me up to be a whipping boy. Instead, I log my encounters, experiences, and the decisions others made. When they ask why is X doing Y. I pull out my log and inform them what had transpire for X to become Y. I know that this is not professional and I don't want to become this person. However, this is the best form of defense I have to not become some sacrificial lamb of bad decisions. This happens frequently at my work place. Despite this being my form of defense. It has really become more than just a log, it is a gold mine of what not to do as a business owner and the tough decisions companies make when conducting business. If anyone reads this, I would recommend logging to them as well. This prevents any gas-lighting others may attempt on you.
I really relate to this. Sorry to hear you're in a similar situation. For what it's worth, a lot of managers maintain logs of their subordinates too, so I don't believe it's unprofessional on your part personally, it's just a sad reality that you had to resort to it.
infinitive of submittō
- The Hebrew word for to submit something is the same as that for to serve, as in to serve a meal - להגיש .
reverent submission.” The Greek word is eulabeia (±εὐλάβεια°), and it is used only twice in the New Testament, both times in Hebrews
According to Hunter, and the Greek Orthodox Church, metanoia means to change one's mind; to expand it in such a way as to have a new perspective on the world or one's self.
the context of adjudication, submit means to finish presenting evidence or an argument in a hearing or trial and give the matter over to the judge for a decision.
A fortiori signals an argument that it is based on an even stronger argument. In Latin, the term literally means ‘from [the] stronger’. A fortiori is generally used to suggest
autocracy is a political regime where a single individual - an autocrat - holds the power, qualified as personal and absolute power
What is the thumbnail "make them submit" even referring to? Jocko's advice is not like that at all.
I'm sure money has something to do with it.
It’s all my fault
The mic is popping so hard I cannot follow the conversation.
The guy has the same cadance and language that Jocko has. He must have a blackbelt in Jocko.
what if he wasn't right lol, good message tho
Who's Big Ego we Talkin bout
Bout boy
A girl scare the shit terms outta you an think she gotta eago naw bro I warned to leave me be
Time to retire that FTX shirt chief! (From thumbnail) Not a good look(;
Schmooze
He’s describing insecure male behavior
Whats your solution to the predicament, what would you do if you apologized and your boss responded like a jerk.
@@themysticalcolby Use them as an example of what I wouldn’t do in that position and make sure my plan doesn’t have me underneath him for too long
Submit to the police state, obey the police state. Welcome to the police state, thanks for the police state navy seals
paws
much apologies
I smell like swamp gas, sewer gas
I am going to take a shower.
Let me tell you the electric is just as bad
I took the ceiling fixture apart - it is a pull string, you know.
Wire coming through a hole in the floor above.
oh, and a little round insulation filler. I can tell you
with a degree of certainty that stuff is spun glass
I know this feeling, talk about itchy.
doesn't affect me, affect me, affect me
twitching. I come back to the giant ego and other stories
after after. Don't go away.
Please and thank you. brb
save frequently save often
truth and reality
None of the suggestions had merit?
Yea, I am an idiot. Moving on.
It is a challenge to work with inadequate information, worse if it is false or immoral.
They wrote me up. I did not say no. I was not insubordinate. Some bosses are idiots too.
Problem is, if it affects the work.
Focus on the task at hand.
They are just mad because it was not their idea.
I wasn't seeking glory - just make the damn thing work
job, team, moving forward.
you make me laugh
except
accept
something like that
contingency (oh shit) Let me get back to you on this one. I say the dice don't lie. I also have faith. It is an unusual combination.
---
Reality - I know you are not talking to me. There are many in this space and over time that hear your words and attempt to identify, integrate wisdom and your lessons learned. I bet there are lot of peeps who appreciate what you do. I think it moves t he needle.
Truth - I know you are talking to me. I hear - not that I obey. Ask the ancients. JW, thank you ♥ your show.
What is the dance between truth and reality? I bet it looks like DNA - helix?
What do you need? What are you looking for? candidates, space cadets, rangers, martials, more
Holy cow ( they/we/I redact some of the dumbest stuff, this is to say so much we don't/can't talk about)
oh my, it's full of stars
You’re not an idiot.
Yeah work is a exchange of your time and skills for payment. No one is perfect so your job sucks,
@@jsmithsemper4848 thanks I sure got a chuckle from you note. As a simple matter of fact. Yes, sometimes I am.
At a minimum I have my moments. 🙂
USMC? Vet? Thank you for your service.
@@user-yf4hv8vr3q I worked hard, enjoyed it for the most part. Once and a while the bosses went off the rail. When they were blatantly disrespectful I went to work for another group. I am all about the work - the saying is that there is no gravity, the Earth sucks.
The chair was held out for me several times. I did not like the concessions I had to make I did the work of a manager - took the beating too - for the pay of a line manager because I frankly don't care for politics - I feel the work suffers - as well as the crew, sometimes.
No one is perfect. One come pretty close.
I forgot what Sir Jocko was going on about. Challenging employers - challenging employees - challenging work conditions
I love a challenge.
I am also retired these 9 years. I think the end of March I can go back to work with no penalty to my retirement income. I have to look it up. The system is not set to maximize work out put or performance. It is about tax money. Shh did I say that out loud? Oh, knock at the door men in black.
brb
@@eddyer3393 at least you don’t have people with verrrrrrrrrrrry questionable levels of attractiveness dictating to you how you should look (at best) & outright bullying you for your looks (at worst). 🤨I’m not a marine. I’m an American who listens to Jocko religiously. It’s better than therapy. 👍 Since they feel a dusty yet disturbing need to bully me about stupid shit, I feel the need to point out that in all their fault-finding, they’re wasting their ever loving time bullying me. I AM in the prime of my life not wanting or needing anything at all. You think I care? You think I’m scared?
Keep thinking that. 😘
Also, I would not keep bringing it up if it wasn’t in my face every time I look. I pay for these services & I am here to LEARN. THAT IS IT. not have ugly ass anons bring up my insecurities constantly.
Jocko needs to know. It’s been happening a really long time. I finally got help with it but it just keeps cropping up.
You don’t have to be in the armed forces to be here. I’m obviously very full of my self so I’m right where I belong 😇😂
And that’s why I joined the union 😮yes sir best thing I ever did good pay good bennies and I use what we make and the the whole city of Chicago we are MID-AMERICA CARPENTERS building America for over 143 years 🎉 unions made the middle class not the business class before us you were dirt poor or filthy rich
The way the country is going right now with nearly every city and state collapsing, they're gonna need you!!!
Yes sir! We are not slaves, we live in a capitalist society where we have to exchange our time and skill for money to pay bills. A job is nothing more than that, just to pay bills. My kids do not care about my boss or any office politics, as long as they are not suffering.
Cover and Move-Teammwork-is the first Law of Combat. Avoid the “Us vs. Them” comfort and build strong relationships up, down and across the chain of command with everyone you depend on to accomplish your mission so that everyone can win.
@@leifbabin1512 in the real world, people have different motives, they function in their own best interest. This is all fun and everything but none of this is applicable to the outside world besides the people who take anything from here as group mentality. This is a grift to make him money.
The Union Guys Ive had the dispeasure of working with on (non union jobs) gave me the impression they are lazy, clock watching, time card riding, hide from work slackers. No offense intended. I know places and situations dicate.
2:51 put on a 0.25 speed and go play-stop-play-stop until you'll see a green screen :D