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Thank you for this analysis! You have it exactly right. I think Villeneuve saw how in previous adaptations, the audience invariably walked away thinking Paul was the hero. Indeed, worshipping Paul, contrary to Herbert’s intent. It shows the how insidious the power of cult of personality really is. As such, changing it so that Paul betray Chani and by making Chani not go along with simply being his concubine was Villeneuve’s way of making it more clear that Paul has stepped toward the dark side. Making him kill the Baron also was a brilliant change as well. When you consider it, these changes actually make the adaptation superior to the source material. It’s also interesting that the ones who pronounce this movie is trash are invariably worshippers of the idea of “the Chosen One” and mainly don’t like the movie because the changes undercut the idea that Paul is the untouchable Messiah. It’s testament to the fact that, even when one throws up all the warning signs as clear as day, most people will choose to ignore them and embrace the prophecy, but at least Villeneuve understood Herbert’s intent and communicated it better than anyone could have possibly hoped. A lesser director wouldn’t have understood the source material.
hmm i think you forgot to consider that Paul was forced into accepting his role as a fake messiah. Before Paul drank the blue poison he was resistant of the idea, but once he was able to see the future clearly, he realized that there may only be one path to save the Fremen and humanity as a whole - This changes his character completely. For me the tragedy in Paul is due to the curse of knowing the future, and having the responsibility to choose the best case scenario even when knowing this decision will hurt and kill a lot of people. I feel your analysis is oversimplifying Paul's character by painting him to just be a manipulative charismatic leader whose main motivation is revenge, when in fact he is more so a victim of circumstance and the powers granted to him.
I thought exactly the same. At the end when he looks at Chani for the last time before she leaves, you can see a bit of remorse in his face as if he didn't want to do it, he just had to.
this movie and story is just tragic all around. it's almost like everything is fated. and there are no choices for the characters. reminds me of believe it or not ..forrest gump..both stories are about fate or do one chose their own destiny.. love this dune 1 and 2 and cant for wait for 3 which could be in 2030
Totally agree .. Paul is the reluctant hero trying to survive and follow his father’s path out of love … he grows to love the Fremen and want what is best for them… he never wanted to go down the road to Jihad but it seems to clearly show he sees just ONE option… and he has no choice.
@@Edmures_rampant_manhoodSame. I’ve always thought that he was a “soft” actor, but he showed a lot of range over the two Dune films-a journey from boy to man.
The thing I feel some people misunderstand about Paul's motivation is that once he drank from the water of life his motivation changed. He sees all possible futures now, and realizes that he, in his own words from the books, is "the fulcrum". His decisions will have a direct impact on humanity's future as A SPECIES, and he is no longer doing this out of revenge but rather because the fate of humanity shall hang in the balance within the relatively distant future. He has no other choice as the path of Jihad is the best outcome compared to what is to come...
I noticed that by the end of the movie, he was the sole heir of House Atreides. He's the leader of the Freemen faction. He beat the failing emperor in ritual combat, taking control. He's likely the chosen one for the Bene Gesserit; they may run it like a scam, but it's implied that there's some truth to it. He's part of the Harkonnen bloodline, and literally killed the leaders; they seem to go by 'Necromonger rules' so drink a shot. By the end of the movie, he has taken lead of all five featured factions, and did so according to the varying rules of each group. As far as any third movie goes, he either continues on the trajectory and unites all of the other houses under one banner, or he dies trying in a 'denial of expectations' by the writers. There really isn't much of a middle ground, since Arrakis doesn't have any real industrial capacity let alone defense against serious interstellar warfare. He can't stay there, since the principal antagonists are defeated and the remaining space threat would need to be defeated through negotiation without discarding Pauls 'five rings'. There's some other loose ends, like whether he still wants Mary Jane or if it was part of taking the emperorship, and there's enough shade thrown at the idea of a prophecy to leave the matter of providence vs coincidence undecided. "Where to go next?" seems to limit the number of possible plots.
That last scene with the duel between Paul and feyd-rautha was almost exactly how I imagined it. I remember my heart pounding as I read it even though I knew Paul would win; I felt the same way watching it.
It's meant to show that Paul would have lost without plot armor. Feyd is a born killer, and since they are cousins Paul doesn't have access to all of feyds memories and training.
@@aaronpop0083 It goes the other way as well. Feyd didn’t know of Paul’s training as a Bene Gesseret, a Mentat, and combat/assassin skills from Thufir Hawat.
From a story telling perspective, I like that Chani manifests Paul's self doubt and concepts that are only explored in exposition, but it throws away one of my favorite parts of the book. This whole story happened because of Leto and Jessica's love. The book closes on this subject, with Jessica getting the final line A bitter laugh escaped Jessica. "Think on it, Chani: that princess will have the name, yet she'll live as less than a concubine--never to know a moment of tenderness from the man to whom she's bound. While we, Chani, we who carry the name of concubine - history will call us wives."
I agree. I see the motivation of Jessica choosing to have a son with Leto as not a selfish thing of her wanting to be the mother of the Kwisatz Haderach, but a defiance of the controlling power of the Bene Gesserit and her belief that with the goodness of Leto, and the gifts and powers of her bene gesserit line, they could create a better world out of their love than what was created as false prophecy. She’s trying to disrupt the control of the Bene gesserit and empire. Not for personal gain, but because she becomes a believer herself that something good and pure can overcome the evil in the universe.
I love the metaphor of Paul's bloody knife during the scene where he captures the Emperor. He is staining his blade and, by extension, his conscience with blood compared to the clean, underused weapon of the first act. It's subtle and heartbreaking.
I don’t think Paul does his 180 for revenge. He changed all of this after he saw the golden path. He didn’t see that until he went south which is what he was trying to avoid until Gurney told his war is inevitable. He knew going south started a holy war and lots of death. I think it’s a matter of Paul accepting his destiny instead of avoiding it.
Yup, Paul is not the good guy. Frank Herbert said the message he wanted to convey is that Charismatic Leaders should come with a warning label that says Danger: May be Hazardous to your Health.
@@seanhartel5362 She seemed to have a reasonable point. She's pissed he's going to use her people. It's their way to bring his inner turmoil to be shown in action. Because he agree's with her but know he's weighing the survival of all humanity against the people around him and the weight of all people in all time is crushing him. She's the external representation of that. If/when we get a third she'll be the external representation of how much doubt Paul has.
@@kingmanic except that’s not what Herbert wrote. I get that she’s more of the representation of the audience, but it was too much. Ham fisted by the end and had me rolling my eyes. Chani was always loyal to Paul and even had children together before Paul ascends to the throne. I can understand the change they made to her character, but it’s arguably more tragic that she sticks by him out of love and devotion in spite of what she knows he might do with the galactic jihad.
Having discernment and seeing things clearly about someone you love isn't insufferable. Awkward, for sure! She's Paul's equal for a reason. @@seanhartel5362
@@seanhartel5362 i and most people didn't feel the same. In the novels she started to lose narrative purpose and eventually became a background figure. In the movie it serves to express the pages of internal monologues in some concrete actions and the character was consistent in the film. It sounds more like you dislike the change in creative direction which is fine.
Paul wasn't cold-reading the Fremen in the south; he could see the future and the past with great clarity, and so knew the details of the man he spoke to.
Exactly! I'm not sure where this youtuber got the idea that Paul was "cold-reading" that random Fremen. This is the Dune universe where Paul can actually control people with his voice, has visions of the future and can survive drinking poison, but all of a sudden he has to resort to "Cold-Reading" to convince people?? lol
@@batmoblazerI think he's just analysing the movie at hand. I would guess that he hasn't read any of the books. If that's the case, then it's a reasonable interpretation I suppose, though still not the one I would make I think.
@@batmoblazereveryone in the comments is disagreeing with him because he's wrong. It is actually that simple. He's just wrong. He doesn't know what he's talking about and the analysis was lukewarm at best
4:55 I like how as Paul walks through the crowed, it vaguely traces out the shape of an eye. I don't know if that is intentional, but considering this scene is right after his powers of foresight awaken, it is very symbolic.
"When religion and politics travel in the same cart, the riders believe nothing can stand in their way. Their movements become headlong - faster and faster and faster. They put aside all thoughts of obstacles and forget the precipice does not show itself to the man in a blind rush until it's too late." Frank Herbert
I think we need to remember what Chani said to Paul about how she'd always love him as long as he remained himself. Once he drank the Water of Life (the blue liquid), he became a different person. Chani saw it almost the moment he opened his eyes. Prescience showed him that there was only one way to win against his enemies, and he took it -- without even having the decency to tell Chani what he was going to do or why. *That's* what makes the new ending so heart-wrenching. In the book, Chani knew Paul was going to marry Irulan. Then again, in the book, Chani wasn't much more than a pretty face. But a lot of readers missed Frank Herbert's point about the danger of charismatic leaders; so Villeneuve gave us a Chani with real agency, a three-dimensional woman played by someone who could make us love her. And he had Paul break her heart. Villeneuve said in an interview that he changed Dune's ending to make Herbert's message clearer, and I think he did it through Chani.
He did thus create the huge problem, though, of needing to come up with a believable way to have them reconcile, so she'll birth the surprise twins, which absolutely has to happen. I'm sure it can be done, but the more I think about it, the less I see a valid path. Well, given how short Dune Messiah is, I guess he has plenty of act 1 screen time to fill.
@@twincast2005 I've been thinking about that too -- and, honestly, worrying about it a bit. The Dune 2 diverged significantly from the novel, and it seems like the Dune Messiah movie will have to diverge even further. I can't imagine what Paul could say or do at this point to restore Chani's trust in him, which leaves me wondering if the movie version will leave the twins out completely or if Irulan will be their mother. But both those options make me cringe, and Paul did tell Jessica that Chani would eventually understand (Were those his exact words? I don't remember. I've only seen the movie once so far). So I guess they will reconcile, but I have no idea how it'll happen.
@@IntotheBangtanUniverseWormhole Yes it's gut wrenching but he even tho he sees the future can change and they can play it that way. And if later decide to make more movies they can spin it like on the avengers that there is multiple futures.
@@enisramadan8148 Great point! Dune 2 didn't really show us how he experiences multiple futures and isn't even sure what will happen in the ones he chooses...until he gets locked in, in Dune Messiah.
@@IntotheBangtanUniverseWormhole Yes and in an interview Denny said that he will make only 3 movies. It wouldn't suprise me if Paul rules with Irulan and have kids together maybe little far fetched but still possible.
Great analysis Paul! Denis Villeneuve has us rooting for Paul but it's what happens to Chani that shows us Paul's the villain. I feel aside from Chalamet playing Paul as an underestimated strongman, it is Zandaya and Javier Bardem who take this film to another level.
The difference between Paul and a charlatan is that having consumed the water of life, Paul has the ability to see through time. His ability to tell people their secrets isn't a trick, Paul is the Kwisatz Haderach, though an imperfect one. In the book you learn that the path Paul walks in a narrow one that allows those he loves to prevail. In the book Chani doesn't question Paul and understand the difference between love and a marriage of politics.
Yes! I thought that was how the books ended! Feminism Hollywood couldn’t have Chani not getting mad and walking out tho. I wasn’t surprised one single bit. I’d have been shocked if they’d kept it as the same as the books. Sad.
Sure… it’s incel to notice the truth that Hollywood is broke with “wokeness” and “feminism”. Yet it’s “incel” to point that out. Pure ignorance. However, I imagine I am probably responding to someone that’s allergic to facts or even opinions not their own so they immediately go to insults. Which is just as sad as the woke feminist Hollywood. Even South Park couldn’t help themselves and had to poke fun at the insanity. All while Disney stock tanks due to their “woke” decisions.
Now the bot tells me he has an imprecise vision of the future? How do you know it isn’t just like Melisandre or Prophecies in High Fantasy stories? Prone to hubristic misinterpretation?
It seems the director of this Dune is getting closer to what the author was portraying in all of the books. I read or listened to a Frank Herbert interview long ago. In the interview he talks about the theory of absolute power corrupting. He said he didn’t believe that but that the type of people drawn to powerful position are more likely to be easily corruptible or corrupted at their core and the power only shows this. I am paraphrasing because it has been at least 20 but maybe closer to 30 years when I heard or read the interview. I am 55 and read the Dune series in middle school.
Agreed. If you want the raw story watch the dune mini series. This set of movies is like they split the difference between the original movie and the miniseries.
Those who have read Dune and Dune Messiah know that Paul's marriage to Princess Irulan is a marriage in name only. For Paul's whole life, they do not even touch, much less have any sexual contact. He does not betray Chani by making the purely political marriage to princess Irulan. He would NEVER consent to having a child with Irulan, because she is Bene Gesserit and the BG undoubtedly want to create another Kwisatz Haderach. Paul would have no part in helping the BG plans in any way. On the other hand, he is happy to have Chani in his bed and have children with her. He does love her, truly.
After drinking the water of life, did anybody notice the change in Paul's hairstyle? It's like he started using hair gel to slick back his hair. Similar to Aizen from bleach when he revealed he was a bad guy 😊
It's about when Chani told him she would love him as long as he didn't change and was really himself. Once he drank the water of life the part that BG Helen M tries to point out to Jessica when Jessica thinks she is so powerful is that it simply opened the door for all of the BG Rev. Mothers who came before to influence both Jessica and Paul's Minds. That is who they opened the door to and how long this breeding program has been going on. In an effort to defeat or gain power over some of their foes they have actually allowed them into their minds and to influence them in their most inner thoughts. How do you escape the BG Sisterhood you have opened the door to in your mind? Paul had changed once he drank the water of life because it wasn't "Paul" anymore. His hair was a very nice subtle clue for the audience that there was a change in him, but people who don't know the story or make assumptions are usually in "awe" over his powers after and for others who know what the water of life actually does. . . . .best to go hide in a cave on Dune.
There were no apples to eat, or milk to drink, as he announced his plans… therefore, switching to a dark cloak & slicked-back hair had to stand in for the classic cinema clues. (Doesn’t mean I don’t love this film forever ❤)
You summed it up perfectly, mate. When Paul oh so nonchalantly say, "lead them to paradise", thats where the whole film really comes together. Masterfully done. Nothing more of any value to add. Except maybe now I have to go see it a second time. What. A. Movie.
I somewhat disagree with on when Paul essentially has his symbolic death. I think for a lot of the 2nd movie, he genuinely doesn't want to feed into the idea of him being some saviour or using manipulating the Freman, he frequently rejects the idea of going south as his visions show him horrors he doesn't want to pass. Eventually he's backed into a corner when Fayd arrives on Arrakis. He either allows Feyd to decimate the Freman as well as Paul, or he take up the mantle of the Messiah knowing he'll lose himself and start a war that with kill billions. I still believe part of his motivations are revenge, but I think for the whole of the first movie and much of the second movies he rejects his Messiah status. The movie felt very tragic to me after he accepts his fate, drinks the water of life and essentially loses himself, the one thing he really didn't want to do.
I absolutely love the ending scene of the movie where the ships are rising to the stars. It was ironic because Paul said to bring them to "Paradise" however the reality is that hes only bringing death and destruction to the universe. The irony of the scene and the white/bright lightning of it all made it seem like they were ascending into heaven when in reality they're going into the greater depths of hell and destruction. Supporting this, the music from Hanz Zimmerman had a somber flute tones that complemented the scene absolutely perfectly. Absolutely amazing. Well done!
I was kinda disappointed that we only see those other great houses ship within the horizon. Seeing them all descending from outer space into Aarakis (like the Padisah Emperor Spaceship did) would be very beautiful. Okay i get it maybe they're saving the budget for this movie. But the Third movie would come more like 2/3 or even 4 years from now, we can't wait that long :'
yeah i know the book well. I just find the film very slightly lacking in a few areas that could have been fixed by 1 or 2 lines of dialogue. Its still excellent and easy to fill in the gaps with background knowledge but a newcomer to the film wont understand the sheer importance of the guild just the bene gesserit which was excellently done.@@kingmanic
You're kind of going light on the Bene Geseret who set this whole thing up. I'm not sure I would characterize this as purely revenge. It was s betrayal by the emperor which would have resulted in the death of his house. Even if the Bene Geseret pilled the strings the betrayal was by his hand. Paul understands the consequences of his actions but it is justice. Beyond that we discover that his ability to see the future is itd own trap. Paul is indeed a flawed hero who im the end does more harm than good but like many things which preceded him he's an object lesson in the failings of power.
The thing is with BG Rev. Mother Helen M. and Jessica. . . . .Jessica thinks she has "won" at some points and the Rev. Mother Helen M. has to point out to her that by drinking the water of life she simply opened the door in her mind to EVERY REV. MOTHER before her. Was Jessica so deceptive before drinking the water or after? Was Jessica pushing the religious beliefs before or after? Thousands of years of planning and hundreds and hundreds of Reverend Mothers in your head and inner thoughts can kind of mess with a person and their once non-war intentions. Imagine what that means for Paul, who also drank the water and let in those Rev. Mothers. . . . . . .seems he got a little bit of blood thirst in him and political aspirations. . . .just the known universe, nothing big.
I'll be honest with Paul's character in this movie what I got from it was the one quote of "you either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain" atleast from my perspective but other all this mo is incredible can't wait for dune 3
I think he’s just doing what he has to. After seeing all future possibilities, the one thing he promises is paradise to their home. Everything he is doing is what has to happen to make that true. Whether he or anyone else likes how they get to that future or not. I didn’t read the book, so this is just what I got from the movie.
i watched the film for a second time and i liked it even more the second time around. When i consider part one and part two as one single film, there is so much in the first film that the second goes back to or is set up and makes everything work cohesively.
I think the scene where Chani and Irulan is standing between Paul has a much more symbolic meaning. For me that scene shows Love (Chani) and Duty (Irulan). Paul chose to do his duty as the Lisan al Ga’ib over his love to Chani, as it’s part of his prophecy.
Your analysis is spot on. The film does a great job of portraying Paul as a hero while at the same time giving the audience just enough information to allow one to question his motives. It mirrors, I’m my opinion, modern religion and fanaticism. Excellent review. Excellent film 😊
When Paul speaks to the mass of Fremen proclaiming he's the Lisan al Gaib. It's very quick but you can hear him end his speech with using the Voice. This makes him more a dictator than a messiah. They don't follow him all that willingly.
4:00 it just speaks to Paul's charisma. He's able to influence the audience to a degree, a population haven't grown up manipulated by the bene gesserit.
In the books, Paul doesn't really have a choice. He tries to avoid the galactic jihad as long as possible, but in the end he is forced to take the throne. It's described how every future alternative he saw led to jihad, and the Fremen were caught up in a religious fervor that was unstoppable. Even if he killed himself, the jihad would still occur in his name. He would just become a martyr. I somewhat dislike that they adapted Chani in the film, but I guess I understand. You need Zendaya to sell your tickets, and you need that "strong female lead" because of you need to placate to that demographic. The risk is that viewers misunderstand Paul and relate to Chani as the logical one. The only one who was level-headed and logical. When the reality is that in the true canon, Paul never had a choice in the first place and chose the path with the least amount of death in it, as described by Frank Herbert.
Screencrush had it right. Paul struggled with his visions and tried to avoid going south because he knew the jihad would come if he did. But when he realized the jihad would come anyway and be even worse if he was killed and did not become emperor, he knew he had to use the prophecy to get his revenge but more importantly to minimize the damage of the jihad toward the golden path for which his son will eventually become the guide.
When that sound cut out during Paul & Feyds fight blew my mind i waa so into it that it didnt occur to me til the fight was almost over that there was no sound. I love the topic of religious fevor
I mostly agree with you. FYI, I'm a pragmatic realist. The Great Houses rejected his ascendency after wiping out the Sardaukar. The Madhi packs up and says "OK" *sarcasm*. The Great Houses or CHOAM were making a play for a bigger share of the spice. Paul, the one that can be many places at once, was expecting it and CHOAM should've stalled. That would've been the smart play but greed trumps brains. The Fremen just wiped out the Sardaukar. I consider that a very disturbing fact and should've been a good reason to bide for time to consider options. You're correct. It was at best morally grey if not evil. However, the Baron Feyd would've exterminated the Fremen if given the chance. I'm guessing.
It's crazy how Paul and Neo from the Matrix are similar to some extent. They have mentors like Morpheus and Stilgar training and guiding them to fulfil their destinies prophesied by religion (or in Neo's case, by the Oracle). They both fall in love with freedom fighters (Chani and Trinity). A big difference between the two is how Paul's character deviates from the white saviour complex and is shown as tyrannical figure (kinda like how Anakin turns to the Dark Side to become Darth Vader). Neo on the other hand mostly stays the course in the hero's journey. It would be interesting to dissect to the two characters more in detail. Anyway, thanks for sharing the video mate I thoroughly enjoyed watching this.
I truly feel like the absence of Paul & Chani's first son; Leto II took some of the depth of Pauls character truly channeling in for revenge. While it was still executed well, I don't feel like the tonal shift in this is deep enough for just the loss of his father.
10:13. “ Paul had pain, whereas Feyd had pleasure.“ So when Feyd put his hand in the box, Margot was making him think nice things were happening to his hand?
Margot has no control over the box and the box can only bring pain because it is the test of it. He’s just stating that Feyd is masochistic and enjoys the pain when inflicted to him.
In the text, Chani gives zero fucks that Paul marries Irulan. She knows Paul loves her alone. If anything it's Irulan who suffers as Paul makes his play for her hand; she understands she'll be condemned to a loveless marriage, Paul's "wife" in name only.
I loved this video. Loved it so much because it helped me clear my thoughts. I could not fully associate what Paul was doing as a façade until you mentioned how it's only the vocabulary, not every word he says is what he means, he just knows exactly what he's gotta say to convince everyone to do what he wants, which is the Holy War. Doesn't change the fact that he sees this mess as the only possible future where the ones he cares about are safe, but yea, it's pretty messed up.
I see movies pretty much every week and typically after the movies end, especially when there's a lot of people watching them, people start talking and making noise right when the credits start. But with this movie, i noticed an extended silence when the credits started. And the theater was packed. I even looked around wondering what everyone else was thinking during that silence. I was one of the first ones to get up to leave
I'm so happy that this second part went all in with the darker themes of the book. Part one almost felt like they were gonna have a "better" ending, but now it feels all the more tragic.
The ending kinda reminds me of anakin’s slow decent to the dark side, Paul was noble and just until his thirst for revenge and him finally getting it changed him forever
Revenge isn't even the primary drive before/after the waters of life. Before it might have been one of the motivations but helping the fremen and Aspiring to take control was more important. After the waters it's become something else and everything else he does is now incidental. He's not one voice/personality in a sea of many millions. He is still in control but now he has bene gesserit ability to have the memories from the past, the mentat ability to project from that data, and spice base prescience. All together he see's all possibilitys and all futures. Revenge is his cover story. He's in a prescient trap. The vision of the future locks him to few paths and each one sucks. He's opting the one that suck least.
This being the second film, works as an interesting parallel to Empire Strikes Back. Empire ends with the main characters loosing, but the film closes on a hopeful tone, where as Dune Part 2 closes on a win, but ends with a pessimistic tone.
My idea: Paul is blind against other possible Kwisatz Haderach(s). Paul didn't foresee the artillery bombing of the seiches. Paul couldn't foretell the fight-details versus Feyd-Rautha. Paul was losing the duel. He had to resort to a desperate act to win. So with all this in mind, any new potential Kwisatz Haderachs that oppose Paul will blindside him. It's an exploitable weakness.
Nope. The reason reason Paul didn’t foresee the attack on the sietches was because he had yet to drink the water of life. Once he drinks, it fully unlocks his prescience. Add that with the fact that he’s a mentat and you have the super being. He wasn’t losing to Feyd. The outcome was never in doubt, but watching the movie, you might think it is.
Paul is both hero & villain. He’s caught in the moral grey, trapped in the dilemma of whether to keep his humanity and sacrifice his loved ones, or lose his humanity and save his loved ones. Also, the guy is literally in the middle of a war! War is something that will make monsters out of all of us especially if we’re thrust into positions of leadership. There will be moments of immense compromise and brutalities we will have to commit in order to yield the best outcome. Think about Attack on Titan and Commander Erwin’s final speech to his men, that pretty much encapsulates my point.
What makes this film brilliant (but maybe flawed?) is that even though I read the book multiple times, I felt myself cheering for Paul up until the end. The visceral feeling of wanting him to get revenge on the Baron and Emperor was palpable. But flawed because so many people will misinterpret the film (but thanks for this video!) Interesting to note that Herbert said readers' misinterpretation of Dune's message influenced how he wrote Messiah to really drive the point home...
Something I did notice after my last viewing is that Paul kills Feyd in the same way that Feyd kills Paul’s last relative in the arena. It’s a role reversal and I think it’s done brilliantly.
While all bad is true what you said about Paul, I think he is also a tragic character. He actually knows the future and different versions of it (unlike us), so it is somewhat vague how much free choice he has. Yes, he is manipulative and starts a war that also satisfies his revenge, but it is not clear if he has any other realistic choice for himself or even for the fremens. Unlike normal humans who always have a free choice, if not else, just because they do not know the consequences or can bet on luck, Paul knows the future and knows how they will be destroyed under the Harkonens
its worth noting that Paul never wanted to become a tyrant or go south and was fighting against it until chani tells him to. He even tells her whats going to happen if he goes and he still tells him
Paul = Darth Vader. He's not the good guy. My wife didn't know that and said she was rooting for him until the end. Thank you for doing this video and pointing this out.
Hes more like dr strange The gift n the curse Helps beat thanos Then destorys timelines with incursions from stuff hes done. Then tries to fix them. Paul us just learning how to use his vision gift And the reaven mother of the bene. Will find out soon hes not controllable as they want. His sister n the other unborn to come from her apprentice Is what they are hoping for next. The part when paul yelled at her at the end was the defining moment of that scene. Thats why she said we always have a plan in place. And i dont think she believed he would survive the serum. And when he did she for a moment believed her own dairy tale she helped sell.
Becomes the symbol of everything evil, to his adversaries ✅ The love of his life dies giving birth to their children ✅ The children are psychic fraternal twins, male and female✅ The male twin becomes the “Chosen One” ✅ Only the female twin continues their family line ✅ Father and son reconcile before the former meets a long anticipated death ✅ I’ll be damned, Paul is Darth Vader
If darth Vader went from doing everything for revenge and power to being the one that saves humanity from extinction by taking the hard but necessary steps.
I have to say, I usually do not like such big departures from great books to film adaptations. But both Chani and Jessica's changes are brilliant. Jessica as Machiavelli and Chani not rolling over and being Paul's concubine. I guess we will see on that last point...
It is SO important that the love of Paul's life (the literal girl of his dreams!) see through him. She has discernment, and can love the real Paul. Makes them equals.
Well I mean at aroud 6:00 you talk about cold reading and charlatans and say that Paul cold reads the guy in the temple, but that is not true. Cold reading is when you deviate around likely guesses whilst watching for positive responsive cues from your subject, either by what they say or more often body language. E.g, "I see a figure in your life, your mother?.." (person's face does not change) ".. no wait your father!" (person's eyebrows raise) "ah yes your father...". Paul's mind does transcend space and time, and he recalled real personal facts from that man in the southern temple, as he saw it with his abilities, which are arguably far more passable as divine. Just saying, but if a guy can legitimately see and sort the future, past and present, I'd be much more likely to bow before him as a messiah.
I’m surprised someone so articulate can interpret Paul’s motivations as someone who just wants revenge. I haven’t read the books, but the character’s motivations and internal conflicts are much more complex in the film.
Is this ending not different from the books? I thought Paul tells Chani something like “She (Irulan) will have no warmth from me nor will she bear my children. I will always love and be faithful to you, Chani.” And she’s basically cool with it and has his twins/heir. It has been a long time and I’ve read hundreds of books since then but I thought this was more or less how it ended in the books.
the Sisters can see the past and in some ways can influence the future... but Paul is indeed the chosen one because he's the only person who can see multiple futures.
In the movie Mahdi is translated to The Chosen One, whilst in the book Mahdi means The One Who Will Lead Us To Paradise which is shown in Paul's line "Lead them to Paradise" He's using the fanatics belief to gain power for himself
Great job in breaking it down! I was so caught up in the emotional spectacle of it, I took about a week to come down. lol That said, I’m going to see it again tomorrow night and can’t wait to see it through your perspective. I love how they changed Chani’s to represent the audience (Zendaya is great) and can’t wait to see how they handle their relationship in the next film. Lastly, is Chalamet not PERFECTION in this movie?!?!? And Rebecca Ferguson! All of the cast is amazing ❤💀💙
Like many others who have loved these books for a lifetime, we’ve learned to temper hopes and dreams of what could be. Goodness knows David Lynch gave it his best shot. So when Denis’ version came out, while it exceeded expectations, I still kept expectations low for part 2. I couldn’t possibly be that lucky twice, right? WRONG, indeed. Never in my wildest dreams. In Denis we trust!!!
I can see how Chani represented the audience, but only to a certain point: by the end it felt forced and ham fisted. Totally left with a taste of bitterness in my mouth. If they would have remained faithful to the book, or even just tempered Chani’s skepticism a bit, it gets a 10/10 from me. But even so, still a 9/10. It was fantastic in spite of the changes made.
Watched it once, and got the impression that everything Paul was doing was part of the “one way” and that he saw a path away from the destruction of the galaxy, but a buddy of mine already told me he googled the ending to Dune Messiah and said that it’s definitely not that lmao. I was definitely swept up in the spectacle. Super excited for dune 3
I love the fact that Denis leaned heavily into Herbert's vision of a tragic, Macbeth-like character arc. His journey isn't heroic, but rather a classic tale of being corrupted by a messiah complex. I'm so excited to see how he ends Paul's journey.
5:55 Paul wasn’t cold reading. Paul saw All of Humanities past and future. Paul was the real deal, it’s just that his visions would always force people into certain paths. The way forward for humanity was to get rid of Prescience so humanity would be free again and spread out amongst the universe.
He was cold reading and also using prescience to see a future where he had a good outcome there. He couldn't see that guys past because he wasn't related to him. his past sense works through genetic memory of all of his ancestors.
I think people insights into the messages of Dune can be to simplistic, Paul isn't a villain, but instead a tragedy as he has no control over his own fate, as he knows there is only one good path, that leads to getting his revenge, but also freeing the Fremen. I dont understand where people are getting it that he is "using" the Fremen, he wants revenge, but also wants to free the Fremen. The thing about Dune is that it can be interpreted in many different ways.
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The narrow path is the reason for what Paul is doing...
Thank you for this analysis! You have it exactly right. I think Villeneuve saw how in previous adaptations, the audience invariably walked away thinking Paul was the hero. Indeed, worshipping Paul, contrary to Herbert’s intent. It shows the how insidious the power of cult of personality really is.
As such, changing it so that Paul betray Chani and by making Chani not go along with simply being his concubine was Villeneuve’s way of making it more clear that Paul has stepped toward the dark side. Making him kill the Baron also was a brilliant change as well. When you consider it, these changes actually make the adaptation superior to the source material. It’s also interesting that the ones who pronounce this movie is trash are invariably worshippers of the idea of “the Chosen One” and mainly don’t like the movie because the changes undercut the idea that Paul is the untouchable Messiah. It’s testament to the fact that, even when one throws up all the warning signs as clear as day, most people will choose to ignore them and embrace the prophecy, but at least Villeneuve understood Herbert’s intent and communicated it better than anyone could have possibly hoped. A lesser director wouldn’t have understood the source material.
hmm i think you forgot to consider that Paul was forced into accepting his role as a fake messiah. Before Paul drank the blue poison he was resistant of the idea, but once he was able to see the future clearly, he realized that there may only be one path to save the Fremen and humanity as a whole - This changes his character completely. For me the tragedy in Paul is due to the curse of knowing the future, and having the responsibility to choose the best case scenario even when knowing this decision will hurt and kill a lot of people. I feel your analysis is oversimplifying Paul's character by painting him to just be a manipulative charismatic leader whose main motivation is revenge, when in fact he is more so a victim of circumstance and the powers granted to him.
I thought exactly the same. At the end when he looks at Chani for the last time before she leaves, you can see a bit of remorse in his face as if he didn't want to do it, he just had to.
this movie and story is just tragic all around. it's almost like everything is fated. and there are no choices for the characters. reminds me of believe it or not ..forrest gump..both stories are about fate or do one chose their own destiny.. love this dune 1 and 2 and cant for wait for 3 which could be in 2030
Totally agree .. Paul is the reluctant hero trying to survive and follow his father’s path out of love … he grows to love the Fremen and want what is best for them… he never wanted to go down the road to Jihad but it seems to clearly show he sees just ONE option… and he has no choice.
The lesser of two evils. He made the right choice.
Aot copied this 😅
When Paul is giving that speech during the meeting in the south, I was fully committed to going to war with just a rock and a stick
And the music was just amazing I was so hyped in the theater I gotta go see it again 😂
I never would have thought Timothee could pull off an intimidating character, but he killed it in this movie
The best scene in the movie imo
Could have given me a tennis ball and I would have been on the first line lol
@@Edmures_rampant_manhoodSame. I’ve always thought that he was a “soft” actor, but he showed a lot of range over the two Dune films-a journey from boy to man.
The thing I feel some people misunderstand about Paul's motivation is that once he drank from the water of life his motivation changed. He sees all possible futures now, and realizes that he, in his own words from the books, is "the fulcrum". His decisions will have a direct impact on humanity's future as A SPECIES, and he is no longer doing this out of revenge but rather because the fate of humanity shall hang in the balance within the relatively distant future. He has no other choice as the path of Jihad is the best outcome compared to what is to come...
That's what Herbert wrote. That's not what Villeneuve wrote.
So why start all the wars to begin with? Solely for revenge?
@@EdgeEdstrongly disagree, this is heavily implied in the movie with the narrow path quote
I noticed that by the end of the movie, he was the sole heir of House Atreides. He's the leader of the Freemen faction. He beat the failing emperor in ritual combat, taking control. He's likely the chosen one for the Bene Gesserit; they may run it like a scam, but it's implied that there's some truth to it. He's part of the Harkonnen bloodline, and literally killed the leaders; they seem to go by 'Necromonger rules' so drink a shot. By the end of the movie, he has taken lead of all five featured factions, and did so according to the varying rules of each group.
As far as any third movie goes, he either continues on the trajectory and unites all of the other houses under one banner, or he dies trying in a 'denial of expectations' by the writers. There really isn't much of a middle ground, since Arrakis doesn't have any real industrial capacity let alone defense against serious interstellar warfare. He can't stay there, since the principal antagonists are defeated and the remaining space threat would need to be defeated through negotiation without discarding Pauls 'five rings'. There's some other loose ends, like whether he still wants Mary Jane or if it was part of taking the emperorship, and there's enough shade thrown at the idea of a prophecy to leave the matter of providence vs coincidence undecided. "Where to go next?" seems to limit the number of possible plots.
@@TheRealBatCave The rest of the houses didn't accept Shadam's abdication and Paul ascending the throne and declared war. Paul had no choice.
That last scene with the duel between Paul and feyd-rautha was almost exactly how I imagined it. I remember my heart pounding as I read it even though I knew Paul would win; I felt the same way watching it.
I love the way that Dennis choose not to insert any music on the fight and we just hear the knife chip and shattered
It's meant to show that Paul would have lost without plot armor. Feyd is a born killer, and since they are cousins Paul doesn't have access to all of feyds memories and training.
I haven't read the books, imagine how I felt seeing that fight, especially when Paul gets stabbed lmao
@@aaronpop0083 It goes the other way as well. Feyd didn’t know of Paul’s training as a Bene Gesseret, a Mentat, and combat/assassin skills from Thufir Hawat.
@@glennac and? How does that change feyd being a better fighter?
From a story telling perspective, I like that Chani manifests Paul's self doubt and concepts that are only explored in exposition, but it throws away one of my favorite parts of the book. This whole story happened because of Leto and Jessica's love. The book closes on this subject, with Jessica getting the final line
A bitter laugh escaped Jessica. "Think on it, Chani: that princess will have the name, yet she'll live as less than a concubine--never to know a moment of tenderness from the man to whom she's bound. While we, Chani, we who carry the name of concubine - history will call us wives."
I missed that last line, too!!!
This was sorely missing from this movie, and made for a satisfying ending.
I agree. I see the motivation of Jessica choosing to have a son with Leto as not a selfish thing of her wanting to be the mother of the Kwisatz Haderach, but a defiance of the controlling power of the Bene Gesserit and her belief that with the goodness of Leto, and the gifts and powers of her bene gesserit line, they could create a better world out of their love than what was created as false prophecy. She’s trying to disrupt the control of the Bene gesserit and empire. Not for personal gain, but because she becomes a believer herself that something good and pure can overcome the evil in the universe.
I love the metaphor of Paul's bloody knife during the scene where he captures the Emperor. He is staining his blade and, by extension, his conscience with blood compared to the clean, underused weapon of the first act. It's subtle and heartbreaking.
Love that
I don’t think Paul does his 180 for revenge. He changed all of this after he saw the golden path. He didn’t see that until he went south which is what he was trying to avoid until Gurney told his war is inevitable. He knew going south started a holy war and lots of death.
I think it’s a matter of Paul accepting his destiny instead of avoiding it.
Yup, Paul is not the good guy. Frank Herbert said the message he wanted to convey is that Charismatic Leaders should come with a warning label that says Danger: May be Hazardous to your Health.
"You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain"-Harvey Dent
Ridiculous
Beware of anyone who claims to know the absolute truth, for in their dreams they see themselves your master
Hello there Dr. Saratov, from SMAC
I've already seen it twice and Chani was definitely my barometer. It's really sad and by the end, the look on her face mirrored how I felt.
Chani was insufferable by the end. Still loved the movie though.
@@seanhartel5362 She seemed to have a reasonable point. She's pissed he's going to use her people. It's their way to bring his inner turmoil to be shown in action. Because he agree's with her but know he's weighing the survival of all humanity against the people around him and the weight of all people in all time is crushing him. She's the external representation of that. If/when we get a third she'll be the external representation of how much doubt Paul has.
@@kingmanic except that’s not what Herbert wrote. I get that she’s more of the representation of the audience, but it was too much. Ham fisted by the end and had me rolling my eyes. Chani was always loyal to Paul and even had children together before Paul ascends to the throne. I can understand the change they made to her character, but it’s arguably more tragic that she sticks by him out of love and devotion in spite of what she knows he might do with the galactic jihad.
Having discernment and seeing things clearly about someone you love isn't insufferable. Awkward, for sure! She's Paul's equal for a reason. @@seanhartel5362
@@seanhartel5362 i and most people didn't feel the same. In the novels she started to lose narrative purpose and eventually became a background figure. In the movie it serves to express the pages of internal monologues in some concrete actions and the character was consistent in the film. It sounds more like you dislike the change in creative direction which is fine.
Paul wasn't cold-reading the Fremen in the south; he could see the future and the past with great clarity, and so knew the details of the man he spoke to.
Exactly! I'm not sure where this youtuber got the idea that Paul was "cold-reading" that random Fremen. This is the Dune universe where Paul can actually control people with his voice, has visions of the future and can survive drinking poison, but all of a sudden he has to resort to "Cold-Reading" to convince people?? lol
@@batmoblazerI think he's just analysing the movie at hand. I would guess that he hasn't read any of the books. If that's the case, then it's a reasonable interpretation I suppose, though still not the one I would make I think.
@@batmoblazereveryone in the comments is disagreeing with him because he's wrong. It is actually that simple. He's just wrong. He doesn't know what he's talking about and the analysis was lukewarm at best
The fight scene between Paul and Feyd-Ratha was impressive.
4:55 I like how as Paul walks through the crowed, it vaguely traces out the shape of an eye. I don't know if that is intentional, but considering this scene is right after his powers of foresight awaken, it is very symbolic.
Your right. Great catch.
Villeneuve likes eyes. They are everywhere in his films. Even the worm's mouth. I bet he was that kid that drew eyes all over his notebooks in school.
"When religion and politics travel in the same cart, the riders believe nothing can stand in their way. Their movements become headlong - faster and faster and faster. They put aside all thoughts of obstacles and forget the precipice does not show itself to the man in a blind rush until it's too late." Frank Herbert
I think we need to remember what Chani said to Paul about how she'd always love him as long as he remained himself. Once he drank the Water of Life (the blue liquid), he became a different person. Chani saw it almost the moment he opened his eyes. Prescience showed him that there was only one way to win against his enemies, and he took it -- without even having the decency to tell Chani what he was going to do or why. *That's* what makes the new ending so heart-wrenching. In the book, Chani knew Paul was going to marry Irulan. Then again, in the book, Chani wasn't much more than a pretty face. But a lot of readers missed Frank Herbert's point about the danger of charismatic leaders; so Villeneuve gave us a Chani with real agency, a three-dimensional woman played by someone who could make us love her. And he had Paul break her heart. Villeneuve said in an interview that he changed Dune's ending to make Herbert's message clearer, and I think he did it through Chani.
He did thus create the huge problem, though, of needing to come up with a believable way to have them reconcile, so she'll birth the surprise twins, which absolutely has to happen. I'm sure it can be done, but the more I think about it, the less I see a valid path. Well, given how short Dune Messiah is, I guess he has plenty of act 1 screen time to fill.
@@twincast2005 I've been thinking about that too -- and, honestly, worrying about it a bit. The Dune 2 diverged significantly from the novel, and it seems like the Dune Messiah movie will have to diverge even further. I can't imagine what Paul could say or do at this point to restore Chani's trust in him, which leaves me wondering if the movie version will leave the twins out completely or if Irulan will be their mother. But both those options make me cringe, and Paul did tell Jessica that Chani would eventually understand (Were those his exact words? I don't remember. I've only seen the movie once so far). So I guess they will reconcile, but I have no idea how it'll happen.
@@IntotheBangtanUniverseWormhole Yes it's gut wrenching but he even tho he sees the future can change and they can play it that way. And if later decide to make more movies they can spin it like on the avengers that there is multiple futures.
@@enisramadan8148 Great point! Dune 2 didn't really show us how he experiences multiple futures and isn't even sure what will happen in the ones he chooses...until he gets locked in, in Dune Messiah.
@@IntotheBangtanUniverseWormhole Yes and in an interview Denny said that he will make only 3 movies. It wouldn't suprise me if Paul rules with Irulan and have kids together maybe little far fetched but still possible.
Great analysis Paul! Denis Villeneuve has us rooting for Paul but it's what happens to Chani that shows us Paul's the villain. I feel aside from Chalamet playing Paul as an underestimated strongman, it is Zandaya and Javier Bardem who take this film to another level.
The difference between Paul and a charlatan is that having consumed the water of life, Paul has the ability to see through time. His ability to tell people their secrets isn't a trick, Paul is the Kwisatz Haderach, though an imperfect one. In the book you learn that the path Paul walks in a narrow one that allows those he loves to prevail. In the book Chani doesn't question Paul and understand the difference between love and a marriage of politics.
Yes! I thought that was how the books ended! Feminism Hollywood couldn’t have Chani not getting mad and walking out tho. I wasn’t surprised one single bit. I’d have been shocked if they’d kept it as the same as the books. Sad.
@@levig8214incel much?
@@levig8214 Chani in the book is too submissive, too much
Sure… it’s incel to notice the truth that Hollywood is broke with “wokeness” and “feminism”. Yet it’s “incel” to point that out. Pure ignorance. However, I imagine I am probably responding to someone that’s allergic to facts or even opinions not their own so they immediately go to insults. Which is just as sad as the woke feminist Hollywood. Even South Park couldn’t help themselves and had to poke fun at the insanity. All while Disney stock tanks due to their “woke” decisions.
Now the bot tells me he has an imprecise vision of the future? How do you know it isn’t just like Melisandre or Prophecies in High Fantasy stories? Prone to hubristic misinterpretation?
It seems the director of this Dune is getting closer to what the author was portraying in all of the books. I read or listened to a Frank Herbert interview long ago. In the interview he talks about the theory of absolute power corrupting. He said he didn’t believe that but that the type of people drawn to powerful position are more likely to be easily corruptible or corrupted at their core and the power only shows this. I am paraphrasing because it has been at least 20 but maybe closer to 30 years when I heard or read the interview. I am 55 and read the Dune series in middle school.
The sci-fi miniseries was more true to the book. Acting and special effects aside, a better adaptation.
Agreed. If you want the raw story watch the dune mini series. This set of movies is like they split the difference between the original movie and the miniseries.
Those who have read Dune and Dune Messiah know that Paul's marriage to Princess Irulan is a marriage in name only. For Paul's whole life, they do not even touch, much less have any sexual contact. He does not betray Chani by making the purely political marriage to princess Irulan. He would NEVER consent to having a child with Irulan, because she is Bene Gesserit and the BG undoubtedly want to create another Kwisatz Haderach. Paul would have no part in helping the BG plans in any way. On the other hand, he is happy to have Chani in his bed and have children with her. He does love her, truly.
I didn't walk out thinking Paul is the good guy, I walked out thinking oh shite what has he become
After drinking the water of life, did anybody notice the change in Paul's hairstyle? It's like he started using hair gel to slick back his hair. Similar to Aizen from bleach when he revealed he was a bad guy 😊
Thought the same thing. I think they had to make a distinct change in his physical appearance at that point. I thought it worked well.
It's about when Chani told him she would love him as long as he didn't change and was really himself. Once he drank the water of life the part that BG Helen M tries to point out to Jessica when Jessica thinks she is so powerful is that it simply opened the door for all of the BG Rev. Mothers who came before to influence both Jessica and Paul's Minds. That is who they opened the door to and how long this breeding program has been going on. In an effort to defeat or gain power over some of their foes they have actually allowed them into their minds and to influence them in their most inner thoughts. How do you escape the BG Sisterhood you have opened the door to in your mind?
Paul had changed once he drank the water of life because it wasn't "Paul" anymore. His hair was a very nice subtle clue for the audience that there was a change in him, but people who don't know the story or make assumptions are usually in "awe" over his powers after and for others who know what the water of life actually does. . . . .best to go hide in a cave on Dune.
There were no apples to eat, or milk to drink, as he announced his plans… therefore, switching to a dark cloak & slicked-back hair had to stand in for the classic cinema clues.
(Doesn’t mean I don’t love this film forever ❤)
DR UMAR ON HEAVY SPOILERS!!!! LMAOOOOOOO
im in tears
Lolol
What happens when you hire MT! Love it.
Going to sleep FOR GOOD😂
🤭🤭🤭
You summed it up perfectly, mate. When Paul oh so nonchalantly say, "lead them to paradise", thats where the whole film really comes together. Masterfully done. Nothing more of any value to add. Except maybe now I have to go see it a second time. What. A. Movie.
cheers mate, thanks for the kind words
I somewhat disagree with on when Paul essentially has his symbolic death. I think for a lot of the 2nd movie, he genuinely doesn't want to feed into the idea of him being some saviour or using manipulating the Freman, he frequently rejects the idea of going south as his visions show him horrors he doesn't want to pass. Eventually he's backed into a corner when Fayd arrives on Arrakis. He either allows Feyd to decimate the Freman as well as Paul, or he take up the mantle of the Messiah knowing he'll lose himself and start a war that with kill billions. I still believe part of his motivations are revenge, but I think for the whole of the first movie and much of the second movies he rejects his Messiah status. The movie felt very tragic to me after he accepts his fate, drinks the water of life and essentially loses himself, the one thing he really didn't want to do.
I absolutely love the ending scene of the movie where the ships are rising to the stars. It was ironic because Paul said to bring them to "Paradise" however the reality is that hes only bringing death and destruction to the universe. The irony of the scene and the white/bright lightning of it all made it seem like they were ascending into heaven when in reality they're going into the greater depths of hell and destruction. Supporting this, the music from Hanz Zimmerman had a somber flute tones that complemented the scene absolutely perfectly.
Absolutely amazing. Well done!
Dont worry they just got to orbit and nothing happened because the guild didn't have any opinion on it all. :P
I was kinda disappointed that we only see those other great houses ship within the horizon. Seeing them all descending from outer space into Aarakis (like the Padisah Emperor Spaceship did) would be very beautiful.
Okay i get it maybe they're saving the budget for this movie. But the Third movie would come more like 2/3 or even 4 years from now, we can't wait that long :'
@@Efoure4 They're the most spice dependent. So as in the book they'll fold easily to paul's threat to glass the planet.
yeah i know the book well. I just find the film very slightly lacking in a few areas that could have been fixed by 1 or 2 lines of dialogue. Its still excellent and easy to fill in the gaps with background knowledge but a newcomer to the film wont understand the sheer importance of the guild just the bene gesserit which was excellently done.@@kingmanic
I gotta see this in the IMAX again. One of the coolest theatre experiences I've ever had in my life
The only competition being Dune 1, right? Too right. I still feel overwhelmed.
You're kind of going light on the Bene Geseret who set this whole thing up.
I'm not sure I would characterize this as purely revenge. It was s betrayal by the emperor which would have resulted in the death of his house. Even if the Bene Geseret pilled the strings the betrayal was by his hand. Paul understands the consequences of his actions but it is justice. Beyond that we discover that his ability to see the future is itd own trap. Paul is indeed a flawed hero who im the end does more harm than good but like many things which preceded him he's an object lesson in the failings of power.
The thing is with BG Rev. Mother Helen M. and Jessica. . . . .Jessica thinks she has "won" at some points and the Rev. Mother Helen M. has to point out to her that by drinking the water of life she simply opened the door in her mind to EVERY REV. MOTHER before her. Was Jessica so deceptive before drinking the water or after? Was Jessica pushing the religious beliefs before or after? Thousands of years of planning and hundreds and hundreds of Reverend Mothers in your head and inner thoughts can kind of mess with a person and their once non-war intentions.
Imagine what that means for Paul, who also drank the water and let in those Rev. Mothers. . . . . . .seems he got a little bit of blood thirst in him and political aspirations. . . .just the known universe, nothing big.
I'll be honest with Paul's character in this movie what I got from it was the one quote of "you either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain" atleast from my perspective but other all this mo is incredible can't wait for dune 3
I think he’s just doing what he has to. After seeing all future possibilities, the one thing he promises is paradise to their home. Everything he is doing is what has to happen to make that true. Whether he or anyone else likes how they get to that future or not. I didn’t read the book, so this is just what I got from the movie.
The Dr Umar reference was unexpected but my god was it hilarious 😂
The ending to this movie is so good... Awesome breakdown!
Cheers mate
Bravo Paul for using the Umar clip! Lmao!!!
You absolutely nailed it man
That Dr. Umar cut was freaking classic!!! LMAO!!!!
i watched the film for a second time and i liked it even more the second time around. When i consider part one and part two as one single film, there is so much in the first film that the second goes back to or is set up and makes everything work cohesively.
I think the scene where Chani and Irulan is standing between Paul has a much more symbolic meaning. For me that scene shows Love (Chani) and Duty (Irulan). Paul chose to do his duty as the Lisan al Ga’ib over his love to Chani, as it’s part of his prophecy.
Thanks for this deeper dive, Paul! I really appreciate it.
Your analysis is spot on. The film does a great job of portraying Paul as a hero while at the same time giving the audience just enough information to allow one to question his motives. It mirrors, I’m my opinion, modern religion and fanaticism. Excellent review. Excellent film 😊
When Paul speaks to the mass of Fremen proclaiming he's the Lisan al Gaib. It's very quick but you can hear him end his speech with using the Voice. This makes him more a dictator than a messiah. They don't follow him all that willingly.
4:00 it just speaks to Paul's charisma. He's able to influence the audience to a degree, a population haven't grown up manipulated by the bene gesserit.
We are surrounded, on all sides by our enemies but there is a narrow way through.
In the books, Paul doesn't really have a choice. He tries to avoid the galactic jihad as long as possible, but in the end he is forced to take the throne. It's described how every future alternative he saw led to jihad, and the Fremen were caught up in a religious fervor that was unstoppable. Even if he killed himself, the jihad would still occur in his name. He would just become a martyr.
I somewhat dislike that they adapted Chani in the film, but I guess I understand. You need Zendaya to sell your tickets, and you need that "strong female lead" because of you need to placate to that demographic. The risk is that viewers misunderstand Paul and relate to Chani as the logical one. The only one who was level-headed and logical. When the reality is that in the true canon, Paul never had a choice in the first place and chose the path with the least amount of death in it, as described by Frank Herbert.
Screencrush had it right.
Paul struggled with his visions and tried to avoid going south because he knew the jihad would come if he did. But when he realized the jihad would come anyway and be even worse if he was killed and did not become emperor, he knew he had to use the prophecy to get his revenge but more importantly to minimize the damage of the jihad toward the golden path for which his son will eventually become the guide.
When that sound cut out during Paul & Feyds fight blew my mind i waa so into it that it didnt occur to me til the fight was almost over that there was no sound. I love the topic of religious fevor
Ikr, I love that Dennis wise enough to realize that that last fight didn't need any music to build the tense
Zendaya or Florence Pugh. A difficult choice indeed...
0:03...
A.K.A "Deffinition".😜
(I Remember)
The Vin Diesel cut away oooooooo hahaha
I mostly agree with you. FYI, I'm a pragmatic realist. The Great Houses rejected his ascendency after wiping out the Sardaukar. The Madhi packs up and says "OK" *sarcasm*. The Great Houses or CHOAM were making a play for a bigger share of the spice. Paul, the one that can be many places at once, was expecting it and CHOAM should've stalled. That would've been the smart play but greed trumps brains. The Fremen just wiped out the Sardaukar. I consider that a very disturbing fact and should've been a good reason to bide for time to consider options. You're correct. It was at best morally grey if not evil. However, the Baron Feyd would've exterminated the Fremen if given the chance. I'm guessing.
Excellent Video. Thumbs 👍 Up!!!
You fucking nailed it perfectly with this video mate. A perfect summation in my opinion. 😊
Thank you
@@heavyspoilers No problem man. Everything you said is exactly how I felt too. The movie is so complex in so many ways.
Phenomenal video mate!! 🔥🔥
Dr Umar voice over 😅😅😅 I got up and ran around my living room😂😂
Bro the fact that you have audio from Umar Johnson in here is hilarious. I died laughing 😂
It's crazy how Paul and Neo from the Matrix are similar to some extent. They have mentors like Morpheus and Stilgar training and guiding them to fulfil their destinies prophesied by religion (or in Neo's case, by the Oracle). They both fall in love with freedom fighters (Chani and Trinity). A big difference between the two is how Paul's character deviates from the white saviour complex and is shown as tyrannical figure (kinda like how Anakin turns to the Dark Side to become Darth Vader). Neo on the other hand mostly stays the course in the hero's journey. It would be interesting to dissect to the two characters more in detail. Anyway, thanks for sharing the video mate I thoroughly enjoyed watching this.
I truly feel like the absence of Paul & Chani's first son; Leto II took some of the depth of Pauls character truly channeling in for revenge. While it was still executed well, I don't feel like the tonal shift in this is deep enough for just the loss of his father.
Was not expecting a Dr. Umar joke lmfao!!!!
Excellent summary.
10:13. “ Paul had pain, whereas Feyd had pleasure.“ So when Feyd put his hand in the box, Margot was making him think nice things were happening to his hand?
Margot has no control over the box and the box can only bring pain because it is the test of it. He’s just stating that Feyd is masochistic and enjoys the pain when inflicted to him.
Do you think Jessica asking Paul, right at the beginning of p 1, make me give you the water has any meaning? 🙏
I just grabbed my tissue and my fookin popcorn bucket mate😂😂
In the text, Chani gives zero fucks that Paul marries Irulan. She knows Paul loves her alone. If anything it's Irulan who suffers as Paul makes his play for her hand; she understands she'll be condemned to a loveless marriage, Paul's "wife" in name only.
I loved this video. Loved it so much because it helped me clear my thoughts. I could not fully associate what Paul was doing as a façade until you mentioned how it's only the vocabulary, not every word he says is what he means, he just knows exactly what he's gotta say to convince everyone to do what he wants, which is the Holy War. Doesn't change the fact that he sees this mess as the only possible future where the ones he cares about are safe, but yea, it's pretty messed up.
I see movies pretty much every week and typically after the movies end, especially when there's a lot of people watching them, people start talking and making noise right when the credits start. But with this movie, i noticed an extended silence when the credits started. And the theater was packed. I even looked around wondering what everyone else was thinking during that silence. I was one of the first ones to get up to leave
Haha yeah I had the same thing, felt like nobody knew what to say
I'm so happy that this second part went all in with the darker themes of the book. Part one almost felt like they were gonna have a "better" ending, but now it feels all the more tragic.
The ending kinda reminds me of anakin’s slow decent to the dark side, Paul was noble and just until his thirst for revenge and him finally getting it changed him forever
Revenge isn't even the primary drive before/after the waters of life. Before it might have been one of the motivations but helping the fremen and Aspiring to take control was more important. After the waters it's become something else and everything else he does is now incidental. He's not one voice/personality in a sea of many millions. He is still in control but now he has bene gesserit ability to have the memories from the past, the mentat ability to project from that data, and spice base prescience. All together he see's all possibilitys and all futures. Revenge is his cover story. He's in a prescient trap. The vision of the future locks him to few paths and each one sucks. He's opting the one that suck least.
This being the second film, works as an interesting parallel to Empire Strikes Back. Empire ends with the main characters loosing, but the film closes on a hopeful tone, where as Dune Part 2 closes on a win, but ends with a pessimistic tone.
0:40 “… it’s Muad Dibbin’ time!”
My idea: Paul is blind against other possible Kwisatz Haderach(s). Paul didn't foresee the artillery bombing of the seiches. Paul couldn't foretell the fight-details versus Feyd-Rautha. Paul was losing the duel. He had to resort to a desperate act to win. So with all this in mind, any new potential Kwisatz Haderachs that oppose Paul will blindside him. It's an exploitable weakness.
Yeah.Villeneuve kinda mixed Feyd with Count Fenring (Margot's husband and failed Kwisatz Haderach).
Major Spoiler:
He isn't. A clone is. But of course you probably knew that already
Nope. The reason reason Paul didn’t foresee the attack on the sietches was because he had yet to drink the water of life. Once he drinks, it fully unlocks his prescience. Add that with the fact that he’s a mentat and you have the super being. He wasn’t losing to Feyd. The outcome was never in doubt, but watching the movie, you might think it is.
Paul is both hero & villain. He’s caught in the moral grey, trapped in the dilemma of whether to keep his humanity and sacrifice his loved ones, or lose his humanity and save his loved ones. Also, the guy is literally in the middle of a war! War is something that will make monsters out of all of us especially if we’re thrust into positions of leadership. There will be moments of immense compromise and brutalities we will have to commit in order to yield the best outcome. Think about Attack on Titan and Commander Erwin’s final speech to his men, that pretty much encapsulates my point.
People forget what universe this guy is in lmaooo moral grey is the perfect way too explain him
This is what i have in mind! I remember Erwin's speech to his men
Going to watch it again tonight. Can't wait till I can watch both parts back to back
I love that scene of the Fremen and Sardaukar running at each other with bloodlust in their eyes. My kind of battle.
What makes this film brilliant (but maybe flawed?) is that even though I read the book multiple times, I felt myself cheering for Paul up until the end. The visceral feeling of wanting him to get revenge on the Baron and Emperor was palpable. But flawed because so many people will misinterpret the film (but thanks for this video!) Interesting to note that Herbert said readers' misinterpretation of Dune's message influenced how he wrote Messiah to really drive the point home...
Got to say that this was probably the best film I've ever seen! I mean there was so many scenes that literally had me on the edge of my seat!
Something I did notice after my last viewing is that Paul kills Feyd in the same way that Feyd kills Paul’s last relative in the arena. It’s a role reversal and I think it’s done brilliantly.
3:19 that Dr.Umar bit 😂
While all bad is true what you said about Paul, I think he is also a tragic character. He actually knows the future and different versions of it (unlike us), so it is somewhat vague how much free choice he has. Yes, he is manipulative and starts a war that also satisfies his revenge, but it is not clear if he has any other realistic choice for himself or even for the fremens. Unlike normal humans who always have a free choice, if not else, just because they do not know the consequences or can bet on luck, Paul knows the future and knows how they will be destroyed under the Harkonens
its worth noting that Paul never wanted to become a tyrant or go south and was fighting against it until chani tells him to. He even tells her whats going to happen if he goes and he still tells him
Good job!
Paul = Darth Vader. He's not the good guy. My wife didn't know that and said she was rooting for him until the end. Thank you for doing this video and pointing this out.
not really
I think Paul is closer to Eren. The main character of attack on titan. They’re pretty much identical
Hes more like dr strange
The gift n the curse
Helps beat thanos
Then destorys timelines with incursions from stuff hes done.
Then tries to fix them.
Paul us just learning how to use his vision gift
And the reaven mother of the bene. Will find out soon hes not controllable as they want.
His sister n the other unborn to come from her apprentice
Is what they are hoping for next.
The part when paul yelled at her at the end was the defining moment of that scene. Thats why she said we always have a plan in place. And i dont think she believed he would survive the serum. And when he did she for a moment believed her own dairy tale she helped sell.
Becomes the symbol of everything evil, to his adversaries ✅
The love of his life dies giving birth to their children ✅
The children are psychic fraternal twins, male and female✅
The male twin becomes the “Chosen One” ✅
Only the female twin continues their family line ✅
Father and son reconcile before the former meets a long anticipated death ✅
I’ll be damned, Paul is Darth Vader
If darth Vader went from doing everything for revenge and power to being the one that saves humanity from extinction by taking the hard but necessary steps.
I have to say, I usually do not like such big departures from great books to film adaptations. But both Chani and Jessica's changes are brilliant. Jessica as Machiavelli and Chani not rolling over and being Paul's concubine. I guess we will see on that last point...
It is SO important that the love of Paul's life (the literal girl of his dreams!) see through him. She has discernment, and can love the real Paul. Makes them equals.
This is why reading the book is imperative to appreciate all the nuances that happen with Dune’s characters.
Well I mean at aroud 6:00 you talk about cold reading and charlatans and say that Paul cold reads the guy in the temple, but that is not true. Cold reading is when you deviate around likely guesses whilst watching for positive responsive cues from your subject, either by what they say or more often body language. E.g, "I see a figure in your life, your mother?.." (person's face does not change) ".. no wait your father!" (person's eyebrows raise) "ah yes your father...". Paul's mind does transcend space and time, and he recalled real personal facts from that man in the southern temple, as he saw it with his abilities, which are arguably far more passable as divine. Just saying, but if a guy can legitimately see and sort the future, past and present, I'd be much more likely to bow before him as a messiah.
I’m surprised someone so articulate can interpret Paul’s motivations as someone who just wants revenge. I haven’t read the books, but the character’s motivations and internal conflicts are much more complex in the film.
Anyone know of any symbolism behind which finger Paul and duke Leto wear the Atreides ring? Leto wears it on his middle finger, Paul on his index.
I was wondering about that. If it was the reverse it could have been some kind of growing into it but that’s not the case.
Thank you for this video!!!
Whats sad for me is that the fremen culture ended up fading away as time went on
Let the spice flow!
Thank you Paul.
Is this ending not different from the books? I thought Paul tells Chani something like “She (Irulan) will have no warmth from me nor will she bear my children. I will always love and be faithful to you, Chani.” And she’s basically cool with it and has his twins/heir. It has been a long time and I’ve read hundreds of books since then but I thought this was more or less how it ended in the books.
The Umar clip!!! PAUL. PUHLEASE 😭😭
the Sisters can see the past and in some ways can influence the future... but Paul is indeed the chosen one because he's the only person who can see multiple futures.
He can see the future and can see the past through male ancestors as well as female. The Bene Gesserit could only see their female ancestors.
THANKS for this, Paul(s)!!!!
In the movie Mahdi is translated to The Chosen One, whilst in the book Mahdi means The One Who Will Lead Us To Paradise which is shown in Paul's line "Lead them to Paradise" He's using the fanatics belief to gain power for himself
Great job in breaking it down! I was so caught up in the emotional spectacle of it, I took about a week to come down. lol
That said, I’m going to see it again tomorrow night and can’t wait to see it through your perspective.
I love how they changed Chani’s to represent the audience (Zendaya is great) and can’t wait to see how they handle their relationship in the next film.
Lastly, is Chalamet not PERFECTION in this movie?!?!? And Rebecca Ferguson! All of the cast is amazing ❤💀💙
Yeah I was on that high as well haha
Like many others who have loved these books for a lifetime, we’ve learned to temper hopes and dreams of what could be. Goodness knows David Lynch gave it his best shot.
So when Denis’ version came out, while it exceeded expectations, I still kept expectations low for part 2. I couldn’t possibly be that lucky twice, right? WRONG, indeed. Never in my wildest dreams.
In Denis we trust!!!
I can see how Chani represented the audience, but only to a certain point: by the end it felt forced and ham fisted. Totally left with a taste of bitterness in my mouth. If they would have remained faithful to the book, or even just tempered Chani’s skepticism a bit, it gets a 10/10 from me. But even so, still a 9/10. It was fantastic in spite of the changes made.
Watched it once, and got the impression that everything Paul was doing was part of the “one way” and that he saw a path away from the destruction of the galaxy, but a buddy of mine already told me he googled the ending to Dune Messiah and said that it’s definitely not that lmao. I was definitely swept up in the spectacle. Super excited for dune 3
I love the fact that Denis leaned heavily into Herbert's vision of a tragic, Macbeth-like character arc. His journey isn't heroic, but rather a classic tale of being corrupted by a messiah complex. I'm so excited to see how he ends Paul's journey.
3:19 LMAOOOOOO😂😂🤣😂
You’re amazing!!
5:55 Paul wasn’t cold reading. Paul saw All of Humanities past and future. Paul was the real deal, it’s just that his visions would always force people into certain paths. The way forward for humanity was to get rid of Prescience so humanity would be free again and spread out amongst the universe.
He was cold reading and also using prescience to see a future where he had a good outcome there. He couldn't see that guys past because he wasn't related to him. his past sense works through genetic memory of all of his ancestors.
I think people insights into the messages of Dune can be to simplistic, Paul isn't a villain, but instead a tragedy as he has no control over his own fate, as he knows there is only one good path, that leads to getting his revenge, but also freeing the Fremen. I dont understand where people are getting it that he is "using" the Fremen, he wants revenge, but also wants to free the Fremen. The thing about Dune is that it can be interpreted in many different ways.
Hahaha you’ve put the Dr Umar clip in this video? Hahahaha 💪🏽