Can’t wait for the Trigun adaptation where Vash is a sarcastic curmudgeon and Wolfwood is a ham fisted commentary on conservative religious gun nuts with no subtlety
Real talk here; hearing about Yuyu Hakusho and One Piece being adapted into Live Action, regardless of how many times I've heard about it so far, still makes me reflexively retch.
I would rather dip my hand in a vat of acid over watching a live action of one piece or yuyu hakusho unless the japanese made it they seem to be the ONLY ones who can truly handle a live action adaptation so people should leave it up to them.
Worst thing is, the mistakes the show makes are OBVIOUS and storywriting 1:1. You don't introduce the most evil villain by first showing him whining like a baby, then shooting unarmed literally naked workers, and then almost get killed by the good guy via sniper rifle INSTANTLY (while nothing is earned since they never met in any scene before).
Not earning things was a major, recurrent problem with the writing in this. It was like the writers thought, "this backstory or that detail was already established in the anime, so I can just piggyback off of it without establishing it here." The most glaring instance of this I noticed was what they tried to do with Faye monologueing to herself in the fourth episode while trying to figure out her identity (although I've recently remembered that the initial bit was lifted from Memento, anyway, so it's not like even that's original) _before_ it's been established that she's an amnesiac. This could have worked if this was the very first time we were seeing her, but since she already appeared for no reason in the first episode, we already had some idea of who she was which didn't include that detail. It's a particular variety of what Red Letter Media termed "(I CLAPPED BECAUSE) I KNOW WHAT THAT IS" in their review for Rogue One, which to me seems to indicate lazy writers who want to make an easy buck off of someone else's hard work without putting in similar effort themselves.
They did Vicious dirty. Anime had him smart, cold and mysterious. On Netflix he's nothing more than a dumb, whiny man-child who's daddy didn't love enough. The cursing was a bit excessive. Half the time Fay was cringey and annoying.
Live-action Vicious fails because of one central mistake: They made him AFRAID. The terror about OG Vicious was that he was just like Spike, fearless and completely disconnected from the rest of the world. But where Spike abandoned violence (count how few times he actually kills people) because his loss taught him compassion, Vicious' loss made him decide to kill everything in his path to getting what he wanted (the irony being that the one thing he truly wants, Julia, will never be his).
Listen I have not seen the new series and I don’t really plan to but I am still baffled by this take. Who is this Vicious people are talking about. He was always the try hard edgelord. He was always the kid who would show up at Friday Night Magic in a duster. Also he had feelings for Julia? SINCE WHEN!?!? His only emotional investment was Spyke as far as I could tell. I assumed Julia was romantic interest for him in the new series because China needed to make sure he had a case of the “not gays”.
That was not a mistake on their part, it was very intentional. They tore down Vicious and made him a weak coward, so they could raise up Julia as a villain as they intended on her taking over as the big bad in season 2.
"count how few times he actually kills people" Whereas in the first ten minutes of this iteration of the series, he kills like 10 people like it was less important than washing the dishes and then just jokes it off.
Here's the thing. Cowboy Bebop is a very good show. The context around it made the show a legend. No new adaptation can give us that context back. I'm 22. It's 4 am. I'm living on Marlboro reds and student debt. I'm watching both cycles of Adult Swim. What else would I be doing? This show will always air. My friends and I will always love it. We'll always love each other. Tomorrow,I'm gonna tell my Julia that I love her. Tomorrow,I'm gonna call my younger brother. Or I'll watch Adult Swim again. And there it is. Not quite so perfect.
Unfortunately, I'm not as poetical. But that's exactly my thought process too. It's dummy late, I had a shit day, and I don't know if tomorrow's gonna be better or worse, but hey, nothimg more to do than to kick back, spark up and tune in. Whatever happens, happens.
Pardon me for saying this, but your story would be perfect for an episode of CB. You're stuck in a situation that is equal parts existential horror and boring, but you're not dead, you have people you care about, so what the hell, let's just get through today and worry about tomorrow tomorrow.
You're carrying that "weight", Space Cowgirl...? I, along with many other people, know the feeling of student loan debt being a life-draining/soul-sucking bitch. Turning on a show like Bebop- whether back on Adult Swim's anime block or popping it in the DVD/Blu-ray player- helps takes your mind off things like that for a while. And it felt so good. [P.S.- like your pfp 😉]
While I don't exactly have high hopes for Netflix' ongoing wave of live action adaptations, the Gundam movie is being handled by Legendary Pictures, who have made some pretty solid movies the past few years- their takes on Godzilla and Detective Pikachu were enjoyable.
@@26th_Primarch I'm half and half myself honestly gundam has a bit more complexity to it compared to godzilla and pokemon I'm just hoping they don't doom it to the same fate as gsaviour
Every live-action mecha movie has been awful in its own way. The only exception is the first Pacific Rim movie, and that's probably mostly because it spends the vast majority of its runtime OUTSIDE the cockpit. I'm deliberately keeping my expectations low for any live-action Gundam movie and I suggest everyone else does too.
From what I've heard claimed elsewhere, viewership ratings allegedly dropped off fast after the first episode or two. If those claims are true, then a good number of people gave the series a chance, only to quickly decide it wasn't worth continuing to watch.
My biggest bafflement comes from that Ed stinger. She looked right, but what was that weird atonal yelling the director thought was a good idea? In the anime, both Japanese and English, Ed was sing-songy when she was being silly. Yeah she'd do weird wobbly voices and such, but she never just yelled in an atonal way like that. It sounded like she had hearing damage, and was immediately abrasive. Ed was NEVER abrasive. Annoying, maybe depending on your tastes (I love her personally), but never abrasive. And I think that's kind of a good summary of how this adaptation handled the characters in general: abrasive. Everyone is a weird, prickly, atonal imitation of the original, with no regard for how they really functioned, and it's a shame. With some of the cast (John and Mustafa especially) they had serious potential to do it right, but the adaptation stripped out the politics, the mood, the contemplative moments, the deep personal tragedy, and tried to make it a fun big bang boomy series, loud and colourful and abrasive, when the original was basically jazz in anime form. They either did not understand what made the source material great, or didn't care and only wanted its aesthetic to grab eyes for a mediocre space action comedy.
i recently rewatched the anime just for that reason, and ed is a typoical quirky character, but she was never loud and obnoxious like the netflix ed. she was in her own flow all the time and was only part of the plot when it was demanded by jett or the others. as you said, sing songy but not annoying, weird noises, but nnever ever yelling or screaming like a child hyped up on pure cane sugar .
This show partially would have been improved by Netflix not feeling the need to treat this show like all their adult shows by making the episodes double or more the length of an average episode. 2. Don’t push for so much serialization 3. Come up with original bounties. This show changes the stuff it shouldn’t change, and tries to adapt aspects it shouldn’t adapt.
It hard to make up for bad writing, but generally speaking while it does force you to be more disciplined with your writing, it’s easier to write a 25 minute show than an hour.
Yeah the eps should have been 20min long then they could have played around with a lot more. Yet they drug everything on and on. I knew the show was ass when the first ep was an hour yet told less than what happened the combined episode length of like 45mins.
You don't have to fight a tiger to know it's dangerous... I don't have to watch live action Bebop to know it's trash... I can't get over how old the actors playing Spike and Vicious look.
The first shot of Vicious in the series had me worried, than he started talking, I start sweating. He does the moshi moshi line, I start crying. And it all went downhill from there. I had to booth up an episode of the anime to remind myself of what Vicious could be like. He's the OG Sephiroth of Cowboy bebop not Reboot Vergil with a fedora
"Reboot Virgil with a Fedora." And we're back to the DMC:Devil May Cry method of changing styles or mediums from eastern to western creative sensibilities... but by gawd why do they suck or just become divisive every time.
Ya know, Vergil may take direction from Vicious. They both intimidating, obsessed with power, kinda weeb (don't use gun but using katana). DMC5 took some extra step to explore Vergil's char. Eventhough he is strong and skillfull, he is awkward at conversation and works hard to hide his goofy side (like the dance taunt). He is still treated as a threat and dangerous opponent Viciou adaptation goes to other direction. They make him stupid and not threatening. Definitely intentional
I feel that bit towards the beginning about the "fanboy entitlement" thing is off the mark, which is surprising. Speaking as someone who is a fan of many, many things, I can say that being a fan does not prevent someone from liking an adaptation of something. I can provide examples to prove it. 1: The 2017 Power Rangers movie did not look or feel like the classic show, and while that kept a large chunk of the audience away at first, many who who decided to check the film out later - myself included - were won over by it. It was not a straight adaptation of the material, and probably not what most diehard fans would have gone with if they had creative control, but it was an overall good movie. Perfect? No, but it was still good enough to win us over and make us wish we'd given it a chance when it mattered. 2: Jurassic Park is not a faithful adaptation of the original novel. It's much lighter in tone, the characters are wildly different, and various plot points were dropped entirely. Yet I defy you to show me anyone who doesn't love Jurassic Park as a film. Why is it loved if it's halfway to being an in-name-only adaptation? Again, the reason is because it's a well made film, staying true to the themes and spirit of the novel even as it mostly does its own thing. Fans of the novel probably wouldn't have taken so many liberties in making their own film, but most were won over by the film anyway. 3: When The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers was adapted to film (live action, not the earlier animated version), fans initially did not care for it. For as strong as The Fellowship of the Ring was, The Two Towers was deemed a mess. Most critiques were aimed at Faramir's portrayal, where changes were made that contradicted his portrayal in the books. Then the extended cut was released, and a whole bunch of new material was added to Faramir's arc. It still plays out the same way, but the fans were won over because those additions justified the changes better than the theatrical cut did. It was all about the execution, and while I'm sure some purists still don't like the changes, the majority of fans are okay with them when they are done well. 4: Blade as he appears in the original Marvel comics pre-1998 was not half-vampire. He was a regular human being with no special powers of any sort. The film adaptation made him a half-vampire, and also made the vampires scientifically based rather than supernatural. Not even the people who knew the original books were angry about these changes, because Blade is a great film made by people who wanted to do the character justice, even if it meant making some alterations. Heck, this change worked so well that it became the character's status quo going forward. Now compare the above examples to adaptations that are generally reviled. Look at the 1998 Godzilla, the 1996 Island of Dr. Moreau, the 2019 Hellboy, or the 2021 Cowboy Bebop. Are these works reviled because they are different from the source material? No, they are reviled because they're bad. They take all manner of mistakes, some of them misguided attempts at "improvement", and that is what drives people away. Entitlement has nothing to do with it. Had Netflix Bebop made changes that made sense - and maybe, I don't know, not been hostile to the audience - it might have actually gone places. People might have actually watched it and decided it was all right, even if it did not surpass the original. Of course, we'll never know for sure, but the evidence suggests that it is at least possible. So I disagree on that part. Just because a fan has an idea of what an adaptation should be doesn't mean he is not open to alternatives. Those alternatives just need to be good in their own right.
2021 Cowboy Bebop did the one thing that you're never supposed to do in an anime adaptation: they said that they were gonna improve on the original source material. Gren's actor even said that the live action "fixed" Gren. How is that not insulting?
I'm not the kind to immediately think something sucks. I try to give everyone and everything the benefit of the doubt. I even gave the Popeye movie a fair sitting, though I think I had experienced Stockholm syndrome halfway through. My hatred of Netflix Bebop was a linear progression. I could handle Popeye better than Bebop!
This adaptation brought out flatly unhealthy levels of anger and hate from me as if it insulted my own mother right to my face. And in a way, it feels like it did. I actually got my mom to start watching Beebop a while back and it resonates with her emotionally so much that she actually has to stop to digest it over time before continuing onward. Let's just say Mom's been through enough to empathize with Faye a lot and outright went to bed bawling when Gren died. I told her to avoid this crap like the plague. There's nothing of value here and I don't want her feeling what I'm feeling when I see this insult. I hate that they did this. I'm glad there will be no second season. I'm hoping whatever you have to say about it, Ben, can at least make me laugh at it because I just want to move on and forget they did this. It's not even ironically funny/bad like other live action adaptations. It's just horrible for me.
Good lord man, the existence of this live action adaptation doesn't invalidate or cheapen the existing Anime. The Anime will still exist to be enjoyed by anyone who wants to watch it, no live action adaptation or otherwise is going to stop you or anyone else doing that. I get you have a strong attachment to the original anime, I get the feeling its maybe a load bearing aspect of your identity even. However I can't fathom how anything about this live action adaptation is bad enough to make you feel as personally insulted as you appear. This Netflix show exists, the original anime exists, both have their own merits.
@@DeepGreenX What you're saying is all well and good but you should note the part where I'm fully aware that my feelings here are straight up unhealthy and that I wanted to move on. In no way can Cowboy Beebop ever be cheapened for me no matter how insulted I feel. That being said, I felt I had to get my piece off my chest while the feelings were raw so I did. If I had to stop and think about it again with a clearer head would I still feel just as insulted as I did at the time? I dunno. Maybe. For some major aspects probably. Others were probably just things that stacked onto the frustrations. However, like Ben said it the second part of the review, I have the option to disengage so that's where I think I'm going with this and other cash grab adaptions now that the thoughts and feelings have been put out there and we've all pretty much said what we have to say about it.
Adapting animation to live action is the non interactive equivalent of adapting video games to pachinko machines. It can be done with varying degrees of skill, but since in both cases the result is more limited, it's only really going to appeal to people who don't appreciate the original medium.
YES. This, exactly. There is a fundamental misunderstanding on the part of American producers about what Anime actually is, at the very starting point of the train of thought they should be having but aren't.
@@senritsujumpsuit6021 Movies/TV are visual mediums, while books are not. Therefore, there are things that the former two have (for example, acting, soundtracks, visual shorthands etc.) that books don't, so there are certain merits in translating a story from one to another. Meanwhile, animation and live-action are both visual story-telling. There's nothing you can do in live-action that you couldn't do in animation. Quite the opposite, live-action is in almost every way more limiting than animation, so when you translate something from the latter to the former, you will always lose something, but never gain anything in return.
I've never seen the anime cowboy bebop and I HATED netflix bebop. The dialogue between characters is cringe the race swapping of characters to fit an agenda the just all around cringe of it. Netflix said it was to "fix the mistakes of the anime"
@@JKPancake The events in the animated movie take place between episodes 22 and 23. So the movie is indeed included in my opening statement ... There is only ONE Cowboy Bebop.
Netflix's live-action Cowboy Bebop show is the Mulan (2020) of TV shows. It's practically everything wrong with modern American TV in one single show. We all seriously need to stop it with our obsession with nihilism and politics.
The moment they said they were going to "fix the wrongs" I knew it was going to be garbage. You can make a few changes, some slight tweaks, but the saying goes-- if it ain't broke, don't fix it. However that quote seems lost on Hollywood these days, because it's most certainly now: "We're going to fix it because we want to, and you fans are going to like it otherwise you're a entitled manbaby." I still don't understand that rhetoric at all, the fans are the reason these people are collecting a paycheck. Do it right and reap twice the reward, yet they chose to do it wrong and get away scott free to do it again. Fun fact: they're doing One Punch Man next. Can't wait to hear that it's gonna turn into a Riverdale-esque teenage soap opera when "Steve Tama", with the overarching plotline being that he must find a cure for his baldness.
There was a lot wrong with the original, especially with the ongoing storyline episodes which tend to come out of nowhere with very little setup, are a complete tonal shift, and are in general poorly written and are only saved by the great art and music. One of the biggest problems Netboy Beflix has is that it takes the weakest part of the original and tries to make it the core of the show.
All I know is, all it does is inspire me to ensure I listen to fan feedback. I'd rather create a successful series and listen to feedback when I know I've made a mistake, as opposed to shifting the blame. Sonic the movie is still an excellent case where the people involved said "Y'know what, you fans are right. This ain't Sonic." - I'm not expecting Hollywood or the suits to do this all the time, but FFS it annoys me to no end when they think all criticism is abusive.
I have a feeling that american studios just think that they can make live action adaptations of anime the same way Marvel makes movies about their comic books. Using the exact same templates. Seems like the thought-process that a high-pay executive in a suit, completely out-of-touch, would have. "Ah see, this is also a recognizable franchise with a pre-existing fanbase, throw it in the make-a-marvel-movie machine! It'll work just the same!" And I mentioned Marvel because it's current big hollywood franchise formula. You could compare Dragon Ball Evolution to comic book movies from the 2000s and similarities would arise.
Yes the “Cats” formula. Cats is the biggest grossing musical in the world. Surely it would be barely an inconvenience to make an Oscar winning movie out of it ? Just a few tweaks for a more general audience, slap on some CG , make the characters “cooler”, rip out any subtext and success is guaranteed. Of course Marvel doesn’t do anything like that it takes characters and plot points from the comics but writes totally new stories and rewrites the characters for the movies.
Giving Jet a child seem like standard American writing that YMS complains, can't write an interesting character just add a child to add stakes and relationship
It's everywhere in gaming too. Kratos was given a child. Last of us is about father child like relationship. They even modified Neir from originally being a brother and sister to father and daughter relationship just so americans would be able to get it I guess?
If it helps put things in perspective, I'm someone who always felt that the Bebop anime greatly suffered from being over-hyped, and I'm still in the "screaming profanities at the TV over this" camp, so don't think your fanboyism is to blame for your reaction. The show really was that bad.
The funniest thing about this is that while the director insisted that the ethnicity of the Character must be respected, they used a Korean Actor to play a presumably Japanese Character cause hey, all Asian are the same right? Also Faye Valentine was directly shown to be from Singapore, which means she's probably Chinese due to her skin color and the fact that majority Singaporean are of Chinese ethnicity but hey, lets just pat ourself on the back for finding one single Asian actor(which was the wrong type of Asian) and totally forgot that she's supposed to be a CHINESE WOMAN! Good job Netflix.
Also apparently you don't need to be faithful to Jet Black, a CLEARLY NOT BLACK CHARACTER. I'm ok with character not casted as actor of the same race. I didn't even care about female black actor playing Hermione(until good old JK pulled a "I don't see color" which was a absolute cringe) but right after you claimed that you cared so much that Spike needs to be casted as the "correct race", you just blatantly changed Jet's race cause what? You're woke? What sort of hypocrisy is this? Go woke go f**k your self.
I can't believe how badly they got the vibe wrong in this series, along with the characters. I think this is once again the result of another show treating the general audience like they're dumb, so any slow moments and subtly is thrown out of the stain glass window. Things that make Bebop so great in the first place. Although Jet's actor is the best part, he is still too over the top with this character imo, like everyone else. Even with the correct soundtrack, it is still misused alot of the time too. The only good thing about this Netflix remake is that it got me to watch the anime again on their platform. And what a shock, it is still brilliant.
It's honestly a pet peeve of mine that... Well, most companies seem to be under the impression that characters dropping F-Bombs every five seconds qualifies a show as 'mature', when in reality maturity needs to come from subjects a show tackles rather than being needlessly graphic and profane.
I hope John Cho gets to be a Lead in a show better than this one. The Live Action Adaptation of the 'Green Bird' sequence in this is just atrocious. I am at least looking forward to seeing Mason Alexander Park as Desire in the Netflix adaptation of The Sandman. Personally while Keanu Reeves was considered to play Spike, I think he would have been far better as Vicious.
The beast has been released. The man himself has decided to judge this. Can we survive this trial of pure utter agony. Can even I fight this? The tears of a broken man who saw the show he loves be tarnished and mistreated. The Sage erupts in a flaming fury.
That and Rosa Salazar and Christoph Waltz were great in that film. Rosa Salazar deserves more roles. I'd love to see her play Fire in a Justice League film.
From Dragon Ball to Speed Racer to Death Note to Ghost in the Shell, and now Cowboy Bebop. You'd think that western live action anime adaptations would stop after every disaster, but alas. This is the world we live in.
I didn't mind the Death Note Adaptation either. Yea it was inferior to the anime and even the Japanese live action films but it was fine and didn't warrant the major criticism
You know,, I feel this show would have worked better if they just stuck to a story about a dysfunctional found family of bounty hunters in a grim and gritty space western, making their way through a mostly grounded universe, with of course the occasional bit of comedy and Sci-fi b-movie cheese. This show gets its closest to actually being good when it’s not trying to be Cowboy Bebop, when it tries to be Cowboy Bebop, it falls on its face, and it only gets worse the closer the attempt is (case and point, Ed). It is as the sun to this show’s Icarus. If they simply took inspiration from Bebop, while they did their own thing, not only would they probably have done better but any comparisons between the two would likely have been much kinder. Probably wouldn’t have been a masterpiece, and it probably wouldn’t be winning any awards, but I could have seen people enjoying it.
Alex Hassell's Vicious is about as subtle as Brad Dourif's Wormtongue in this Netflix adaptation. XD It made sense for Brad's roles,. but what the hell did they tell Alex Hassell about his part? Also being a protagonist since the late 2010s, you have two options; be a Smarmy Self-Satisfied jerk making unfunny quips all the time, or a stone faced and monotone mannequin.
Its probably a bad idea to remake fantasy and SF anime (and video games) as live action shows. Even with improvements in CGI, even if you try and cut corners (like this show), its simply too expensive. And its pointless. The show already exists. Is an animated show not considered a "real" show? Why not make original shows, or at least shows based on books (or just maybe comics/manga).
I feel so sorry for Keiko Nobumoto. She helped create one of the most iconic, popular and beloved anime of all time. One that has a fanbase that continues even to this day. And one of the last things she saw before she died was a live action show that bastardized it. Rest in Peace, Keito. Your legacy as a great writer will not be tainted.
Honestly, though....this failure is just a blip in Bebop's (and Nobumoto's) expansive legacy. And that drop of water will easily (and inevitably) get lost in the ocean of time.
Really?!? Really!?!! Buddy out of the myriad of things this poor woman was probably thinking about when contemplating her approaching mortality I don’t think, “Man that Netflix show sucks” was high on her priority list. Hell I bet she probably enjoyed seeing some of those creations in tangible space. Dude don’t use the dead to be a troll.
@@Arufonsa1 I agree, Arufonsa1. Robo-Nidai, that was a low blow. I agree the show has problems, but trying to say that she passed from this show? That's just wrong.
@@ZeltraxMillennium I want to make this clear. That was NEVER the intention of what I said. The entire point was giving my thoughts on how it must have felt for her. Given how other people who worked on Cowboy Bebop have voiced their displeasure at the Netflix show, I do not think it was unfair to assume she was not pleased with it either. Honestly, I feel the better argument against me would have been "Don't act like you know what she thought of the show or if she even saw it at all."
@@robo-nidai4236 My apologies. Honestly, I think Keiko Nobumoto was more concerned about her health and other things compared to hearing about a show she wrote was getting a live-action adaptation. But yeah, that's all I wanted to say - I personally liked the show for what I saw from it, so let's just move the heck on & try not to use the recently deceased like that in casual conversation again.
Sounds like the Netflix Bebop made the same mistake animated Killing Joke made, mixing excellent dialogue from Alan Moore's original comic with weak dialogue written for the parts that weren't in the comic.
Thing about "fan entitlement " is fans are the only reason these fandoms are around for these companies to try and cash in on. If anything fans to so more gatekeepong to keep stuff from getting ruined like ao many fandoms have. The American comic book industry is a good example of how fandoms get ruined. You can't give away modern Marvel of DC comics as birdcage liner
This was a great episode. I really enjoyed the clips put in here like "Shut up!" And what not. It's pretty funny, reminds me of the old era of comedic reviews/retrospectives. Also hello Spoony!
13:17 yeah, this I can say, they really downgraded Vicious. 15:23 yeah, I'm not sure what they did but Vicious in the anime was more-all you need is his name being mentioned and it makes us go "Oh f---- GET OUT GET OUTGETOUT!" He was life threatening. Life action Vicious? He's a rich brat with zero brains and a kitten could take him down.
One thing that I don't see a lot of commentary on despite how big a departure it is was the way that the Bebop crew was kept from collecting bounties. In the anime, it was always some sort o random circumstance or, if they actually did collect the bounty, they got hit with a big expense that they had to pay off. In the Netflix adaptation, they were deliberately screwed out of bounties by the cops shooting the perp or a bunch of added fees being tacked on that soaked up most of the money. It was not a good change.
I wasn’t sure about this show going in, but after the first episode I was able to see it for what it was - a remixed version of Cowboy Bebop. The music cues are in different places or different episodes, characters appear in places they weren’t before, episodes play out differently than they used to, characters have different backstories or attitudes… It’s a remix. Not a replacement. And I fucking loved it. I’m also honestly surprised to see no mention of how many Easter eggs there are in the background of so many scenes - you can tell how much love the showrunners have for the original based on that alone.
17:39-18:00 It’s like a bad or generic abridged series with how the joke is just that everyone is constantly mean-spirited towards everyone else. No depth, or at least decent jokes, clever script writing, or good comedic timing to make it actually funny.
Could never hear "Vicious" say, "And you shall bleed tears of scarlet" and feel the same shiver i got hearing him say it in the anime. Let alone think he'd be capable of it. He looks like Lucius Malfoy's understudy... actually, lucius woulda have probably been a better choice. Carrying the half-open snake-like eyes that Vicious had in the anime rather than bug-eyed lemur's. But hey. As I've been saying since the Netflix Death Note, "They're gonna keep doing this. And hey, let em. Let them make something that'll crash and we know it'll crash. Least we'll still have the originals."
This is the most footage i have seen from their version of baybap... it sucks. Jet was fine tho. EDIT: Holy shit their vicious is really really really bad, uncanny bad.
I feel like the biggest issue with Vicious is the same gripe I have with Sephiroth in the FF7 remake. Both are instances of "Yeah, people are expecting it so we kinda have to have at least *some* reference to 'em" but... then the respective show/game runners forgot that the character of Vicious and Sephiroth aren't... really all that important. The characters are barely even characters in their originals and that's okay, because of what they represent. Vicious is the ghost of a life that Spike can't escape from, the specter of the life he spends the entire series running from. Sure we hear about Spike's time in the Syndicate but not much beyond that, and that lack of direct influence on the overall plot - or lack thereof in the original Bebop's case - gives Vicious the same air as Darth Vader. A looming force of nature to best be avoided. Giving him that much screen time just draws all the flaws as a person Vicious would have out into the open and shines a spotlight on it to the point that even Skeletor would be telling him to chill and kills any credibility he would've otherwise had.
One of the few times the tease for a second part has actually really intrigued me. I'm a fan of the show mostly by osmosis. I've watched clips, read synopses in articles about this adaptation, and seen a few episodes in a sleep-deprived haze back in my teen years on adult swim. Even as a casual fan the adaptation just... structurally isn't good. If they want to pull the "it's trying to be its own thing" card, they need to make sure it can stand on its own. It really can't, though.
Bebop was that thing that be done again. Just watch the original. I wish they would of explored the universe it is set in over retailing the story. They could do that without ever referencing the original crew once. Just have the ship with a new owner decades, or even centuries later.
As someone who had zero exceptions for this show, I'm not mad at the show at all especially now it's been cancelled. I know that it will become forgotten in a few years time.
Same, I watched the first episode and just couldn't go any further. I'm totally ok with reinterpretation / modification of past works but this was just objectively not good.
This was not a good show. I made it halfway through and it had become background noise. There was some major tonal whiplash, especially the scenes with Viscous. Everything looked like a set, not a real, lived in world and part of an expansive universe. Also, so many Dutch angles, in so many shots. I am baffled.
That cutaway to Midnight Mass when addressing Netflix's better shows is real telling. I couldn't think of a better comparison betweeng good and god awful on the platform. Both 1 season 2021 productions too.
It probably would have helped if the writers knew that the show is only like 20% comedy. Most of the characters in the anime have this melancholic expression in their scenes, and huge majority of the show is nonverbally communicated from Spike's unusual expression of pure optimism to Vicious' animalistic sneer. ...It also probably would have helped if the writers had a shred of maturity in their dialogue: Toilet humor /= references to classic poetry and old kung fu movies.
In the more recent examinations of the Stats, the Bebop Show lost almost ALL of its viewership after the first week So while it was in the top 10 in its first week it had NO legs for long term pull Most of the analysis I've seen says that it is unlikely that most of the viewers even completed the whole season before dipping out, and that is why there was no future for it The actors and writers going on Twitter and actively antagonizing the fans probably didn't help
What is it with so many makers antagonizing fans these days? What happened to the backbone when something flopped, you just admitted "we fucked up, have to try to learn from these mistakes for the next time" ?
Because until the rise of social media actors and writers never had to deal with fans outside extremely controlled environments. Now each of them is on the twit-er and we get to see them unscripted and without the PR filter. And guess what? They are a bunch of seethingly self-righteous melodrama addicts used to people practically worshiping them. Nothings changed, its just now instead of some newspaper rag telling us "Celebrity X said Y about Z" and three other wastes of paper coming up with different stories; we get it straight from the horse's mouth....Isn't the truth liberating? XD
To be fair, when you release the entire season at once, you ‘re going to lose steam almost immediately, unless you have a great cliffhanger and the show is fantastic
@@Mister-Thirteen I feel like that misses the opposite end of that equation, the one where fans can also be complete and utter bastards and thus provoke creators. Now I'm not saying that is the case here, but how many times have we heard of X or Y actor having been singled out for the sin of creating or starring in a production that wasn't liked? Like we've literally had actors hounded so badly in their lives that they stopped doing so because it isn't worth the vitriol received.
Netflix is such a dark bargain; they're willing to pay for your moonshot project but then six months later they already expect you to be finished with season 2.
Vicious is such a travesty in this. They had a decent idea of exploring his background but fumbled it by characterizing him like that. It just makes it even harder to watch. The rest I can deal with but Vicious, oof
Problem is not simply the look and sound and such of the Netflix Cowboy Bebop. The problem is that it's utter unwatchable garbage, which captures almost nothing of the spirit and style of the original that made it so popular. It's like they weren't even trying to make it good, whether they realize it or not. And the final nail in the coffin is radical Edward, who should not have been played by a boy because that both changes the energy and presence she has on screen, and eliminates tomboys. Heck, since radical Edward was a redhead I'm surprised they didn't make her black too.
Sadly, thats how society is now. If a girl acts a bit more masculine or likes more male centric things she's not a tomboy, she's either transgender, nonbinary or gay and vice versa for any boys who like more feminine shit.
@@thefanwithoutaface8105 three of the best friends I have are tomboys, and all of them are happily married to men. Tomboys have been fighting for decades to get people to realize that the "durr hurr tomboy lesbian" stereotype is a lie.
@@hariman7727 Yup, it sucks since I personally find tomboys to be a bit on the attractive side myself. Sadly now like I said, if a girl is tomboy they're basically labeled as either gay or someone with some gender identity disorder.
The wonder of Joss whedon writing infecting scriptwriters will be the deathblow to shows that had the potential of being great. Characters reduced to quips and wink wink nudge jokes instead of being played straight. I hate this timeline and I hate the MCU for bringing this on us.
I mean, it worked for shows like Firefly, because it was centered around those kind of relationships with the cast. But yes, it's a huge problem when EVERY SINGLE SHOW has to have Wheadon dialogue.
This show was bad, but it was funny that you pointed out that the crew are constantly at each other's throats because one of the FEW things I enjoyed was that in Netflix Bebop, Spike and Jet find out about what Faye's been through and become really supportive of her. I don't know if that would've made for a better STORY for Faye in the long run, but I always kind of pitied her in the original and it was nice to see her not try and carry that weight (sorry) all by herself.
The main fumble to this adaptation was the writing. I support the main actors who did their best to portray such iconic characters but the story and how the show was directed made it hard to enjoy and feel satisfactory for me.
Can’t wait for the Trigun adaptation where Vash is a sarcastic curmudgeon and Wolfwood is a ham fisted commentary on conservative religious gun nuts with no subtlety
You forgot the part where Legato Bluesummers is a flamboyant gay man with psychopathic crush on Vash.
@@thefanwithoutaface8105 gratuitous gay sex scene
Oh God, make it stooooooooooop
Wolfwood is also a roaring gaybasher who turns out to just be super closeted. And trans. Don't forget the trans.
@@NavonodSemaj And Knives has daddy/mommy issues which caused him to go nuts and want to destroy everything.
Real talk here; hearing about Yuyu Hakusho and One Piece being adapted into Live Action, regardless of how many times I've heard about it so far, still makes me reflexively retch.
Still better than the preemptive gattling vomiting reflex i got when i first heard of it.
Gratz ... i guess.
I would rather dip my hand in a vat of acid over watching a live action of one piece or yuyu hakusho unless the japanese made it they seem to be the ONLY ones who can truly handle a live action adaptation so people should leave it up to them.
Well, here's something to make you scream in horror. The One Piece show is done by the same company who did Netflix Cowboy Bebop.
@@Shoyro Hence my failing attempts to keep me from introducing my insides to the outside.
@@Shoyro they should really leave it to the japanese it should have been done after dragon ball evolution
Worst thing is, the mistakes the show makes are OBVIOUS and storywriting 1:1. You don't introduce the most evil villain by first showing him whining like a baby, then shooting unarmed literally naked workers, and then almost get killed by the good guy via sniper rifle INSTANTLY (while nothing is earned since they never met in any scene before).
Not earning things was a major, recurrent problem with the writing in this. It was like the writers thought, "this backstory or that detail was already established in the anime, so I can just piggyback off of it without establishing it here." The most glaring instance of this I noticed was what they tried to do with Faye monologueing to herself in the fourth episode while trying to figure out her identity (although I've recently remembered that the initial bit was lifted from Memento, anyway, so it's not like even that's original) _before_ it's been established that she's an amnesiac.
This could have worked if this was the very first time we were seeing her, but since she already appeared for no reason in the first episode, we already had some idea of who she was which didn't include that detail.
It's a particular variety of what Red Letter Media termed "(I CLAPPED BECAUSE) I KNOW WHAT THAT IS" in their review for Rogue One, which to me seems to indicate lazy writers who want to make an easy buck off of someone else's hard work without putting in similar effort themselves.
They did Vicious dirty. Anime had him smart, cold and mysterious. On Netflix he's nothing more than a dumb, whiny man-child who's daddy didn't love enough. The cursing was a bit excessive. Half the time Fay was cringey and annoying.
Live-action Vicious fails because of one central mistake: They made him AFRAID.
The terror about OG Vicious was that he was just like Spike, fearless and completely disconnected from the rest of the world. But where Spike abandoned violence (count how few times he actually kills people) because his loss taught him compassion, Vicious' loss made him decide to kill everything in his path to getting what he wanted (the irony being that the one thing he truly wants, Julia, will never be his).
Listen I have not seen the new series and I don’t really plan to but I am still baffled by this take. Who is this Vicious people are talking about. He was always the try hard edgelord. He was always the kid who would show up at Friday Night Magic in a duster. Also he had feelings for Julia? SINCE WHEN!?!? His only emotional investment was Spyke as far as I could tell. I assumed Julia was romantic interest for him in the new series because China needed to make sure he had a case of the “not gays”.
That was not a mistake on their part, it was very intentional. They tore down Vicious and made him a weak coward, so they could raise up Julia as a villain as they intended on her taking over as the big bad in season 2.
@@jorixpalorn3738 Oh damn….. now I kind of wish we got to see that.
"count how few times he actually kills people"
Whereas in the first ten minutes of this iteration of the series, he kills like 10 people like it was less important than washing the dishes and then just jokes it off.
Funnily enough, this is also how Netflix ruined the Light Yagami character in their Death Note adaptation.
Here's the thing. Cowboy Bebop is a very good show. The context around it made the show a legend. No new adaptation can give us that context back. I'm 22. It's 4 am. I'm living on Marlboro reds and student debt. I'm watching both cycles of Adult Swim. What else would I be doing? This show will always air. My friends and I will always love it. We'll always love each other. Tomorrow,I'm gonna tell my Julia that I love her. Tomorrow,I'm gonna call my younger brother. Or I'll watch Adult Swim again. And there it is. Not quite so perfect.
Unfortunately, I'm not as poetical. But that's exactly my thought process too. It's dummy late, I had a shit day, and I don't know if tomorrow's gonna be better or worse, but hey, nothimg more to do than to kick back, spark up and tune in. Whatever happens, happens.
Pardon me for saying this, but your story would be perfect for an episode of CB.
You're stuck in a situation that is equal parts existential horror and boring, but you're not dead, you have people you care about, so what the hell, let's just get through today and worry about tomorrow tomorrow.
You're carrying that "weight", Space Cowgirl...?
I, along with many other people, know the feeling of student loan debt being a life-draining/soul-sucking bitch. Turning on a show like Bebop- whether back on Adult Swim's anime block or popping it in the DVD/Blu-ray player- helps takes your mind off things like that for a while. And it felt so good.
[P.S.- like your pfp 😉]
Are You Living In The Real World?
@@Mekasoundwave Who is?
Netflix has put all their eggs in the anime basket much like how local stations put all their eggs in the news/tabloid basket.
*Keiko Nobumoto's screenplays:*
Cowboy Bebop
Wolf's Rain
Samurai Champloo
Space Dandy
Carole & Tuesday
Just, ouch.
While I don't exactly have high hopes for Netflix' ongoing wave of live action adaptations, the Gundam movie is being handled by Legendary Pictures, who have made some pretty solid movies the past few years- their takes on Godzilla and Detective Pikachu were enjoyable.
Agreed. I do need some more info and an actual trailer before 100% making up my mind on it but I'm actually looking forward to it.
@@26th_Primarch I'm half and half myself honestly gundam has a bit more complexity to it compared to godzilla and pokemon I'm just hoping they don't doom it to the same fate as gsaviour
Every live-action mecha movie has been awful in its own way. The only exception is the first Pacific Rim movie, and that's probably mostly because it spends the vast majority of its runtime OUTSIDE the cockpit.
I'm deliberately keeping my expectations low for any live-action Gundam movie and I suggest everyone else does too.
And the guy directing it, did Kong Skull island, so I'm pretty frigging hyped
@@jonathanclark2622 and while I'm iffy on the idea because of past experience the director did say he's a huge Gundam fan
The best acted character in the show... aside from Jet, of course, is Ein. Yeah, the dog is the second best actor in the show.
Has also literally kept yap shut, and has not bitched at fans.
He was paid in boops!
From what I've heard claimed elsewhere, viewership ratings allegedly dropped off fast after the first episode or two. If those claims are true, then a good number of people gave the series a chance, only to quickly decide it wasn't worth continuing to watch.
My biggest bafflement comes from that Ed stinger. She looked right, but what was that weird atonal yelling the director thought was a good idea? In the anime, both Japanese and English, Ed was sing-songy when she was being silly. Yeah she'd do weird wobbly voices and such, but she never just yelled in an atonal way like that. It sounded like she had hearing damage, and was immediately abrasive. Ed was NEVER abrasive. Annoying, maybe depending on your tastes (I love her personally), but never abrasive.
And I think that's kind of a good summary of how this adaptation handled the characters in general: abrasive. Everyone is a weird, prickly, atonal imitation of the original, with no regard for how they really functioned, and it's a shame. With some of the cast (John and Mustafa especially) they had serious potential to do it right, but the adaptation stripped out the politics, the mood, the contemplative moments, the deep personal tragedy, and tried to make it a fun big bang boomy series, loud and colourful and abrasive, when the original was basically jazz in anime form. They either did not understand what made the source material great, or didn't care and only wanted its aesthetic to grab eyes for a mediocre space action comedy.
i recently rewatched the anime just for that reason, and ed is a typoical quirky character, but she was never loud and obnoxious like the netflix ed. she was in her own flow all the time and was only part of the plot when it was demanded by jett or the others. as you said, sing songy but not annoying, weird noises, but nnever ever yelling or screaming like a child hyped up on pure cane sugar .
This show partially would have been improved by Netflix not feeling the need to treat this show like all their adult shows by making the episodes double or more the length of an average episode. 2. Don’t push for so much serialization 3. Come up with original bounties.
This show changes the stuff it shouldn’t change, and tries to adapt aspects it shouldn’t adapt.
I think if someone went through and edited down each episode to 20 minutes, maybe even 30 minutes, the improvement would be stark.
It hard to make up for bad writing, but generally speaking while it does force you to be more disciplined with your writing, it’s easier to write a 25 minute show than an hour.
Yeah the eps should have been 20min long then they could have played around with a lot more. Yet they drug everything on and on. I knew the show was ass when the first ep was an hour yet told less than what happened the combined episode length of like 45mins.
this show tried to diversify a show that was already diverse as fuck...kinda went full circle on that one and ended up being part of its failure.
You don't have to fight a tiger to know it's dangerous...
I don't have to watch live action Bebop to know it's trash...
I can't get over how old the actors playing Spike and Vicious look.
I didn't know that Keiko Nobumoto passed away. That really sucks :(
The first shot of Vicious in the series had me worried, than he started talking, I start sweating. He does the moshi moshi line, I start crying. And it all went downhill from there. I had to booth up an episode of the anime to remind myself of what Vicious could be like. He's the OG Sephiroth of Cowboy bebop not Reboot Vergil with a fedora
Oh god you hit the nail on the head with that analogy.
"Reboot Virgil with a Fedora."
And we're back to the DMC:Devil May Cry method of changing styles or mediums from eastern to western creative sensibilities... but by gawd why do they suck or just become divisive every time.
Ya know, Vergil may take direction from Vicious. They both intimidating, obsessed with power, kinda weeb (don't use gun but using katana).
DMC5 took some extra step to explore Vergil's char. Eventhough he is strong and skillfull, he is awkward at conversation and works hard to hide his goofy side (like the dance taunt). He is still treated as a threat and dangerous opponent
Viciou adaptation goes to other direction. They make him stupid and not threatening. Definitely intentional
Let me guess, Netflix had Vicious tipping his fedora and say "M'lady."
In that flashback episode he came off as Iosef Tarasov from the first John Wick film, even copied the dad punching him scene.
I feel that bit towards the beginning about the "fanboy entitlement" thing is off the mark, which is surprising. Speaking as someone who is a fan of many, many things, I can say that being a fan does not prevent someone from liking an adaptation of something. I can provide examples to prove it.
1: The 2017 Power Rangers movie did not look or feel like the classic show, and while that kept a large chunk of the audience away at first, many who who decided to check the film out later - myself included - were won over by it. It was not a straight adaptation of the material, and probably not what most diehard fans would have gone with if they had creative control, but it was an overall good movie. Perfect? No, but it was still good enough to win us over and make us wish we'd given it a chance when it mattered.
2: Jurassic Park is not a faithful adaptation of the original novel. It's much lighter in tone, the characters are wildly different, and various plot points were dropped entirely. Yet I defy you to show me anyone who doesn't love Jurassic Park as a film. Why is it loved if it's halfway to being an in-name-only adaptation? Again, the reason is because it's a well made film, staying true to the themes and spirit of the novel even as it mostly does its own thing. Fans of the novel probably wouldn't have taken so many liberties in making their own film, but most were won over by the film anyway.
3: When The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers was adapted to film (live action, not the earlier animated version), fans initially did not care for it. For as strong as The Fellowship of the Ring was, The Two Towers was deemed a mess. Most critiques were aimed at Faramir's portrayal, where changes were made that contradicted his portrayal in the books. Then the extended cut was released, and a whole bunch of new material was added to Faramir's arc. It still plays out the same way, but the fans were won over because those additions justified the changes better than the theatrical cut did. It was all about the execution, and while I'm sure some purists still don't like the changes, the majority of fans are okay with them when they are done well.
4: Blade as he appears in the original Marvel comics pre-1998 was not half-vampire. He was a regular human being with no special powers of any sort. The film adaptation made him a half-vampire, and also made the vampires scientifically based rather than supernatural. Not even the people who knew the original books were angry about these changes, because Blade is a great film made by people who wanted to do the character justice, even if it meant making some alterations. Heck, this change worked so well that it became the character's status quo going forward.
Now compare the above examples to adaptations that are generally reviled. Look at the 1998 Godzilla, the 1996 Island of Dr. Moreau, the 2019 Hellboy, or the 2021 Cowboy Bebop. Are these works reviled because they are different from the source material? No, they are reviled because they're bad. They take all manner of mistakes, some of them misguided attempts at "improvement", and that is what drives people away. Entitlement has nothing to do with it. Had Netflix Bebop made changes that made sense - and maybe, I don't know, not been hostile to the audience - it might have actually gone places. People might have actually watched it and decided it was all right, even if it did not surpass the original. Of course, we'll never know for sure, but the evidence suggests that it is at least possible.
So I disagree on that part. Just because a fan has an idea of what an adaptation should be doesn't mean he is not open to alternatives. Those alternatives just need to be good in their own right.
I’ll say it does. 🤷♂️. Listen I’ve lived through Star Wars. There is no walking back fan entitlement now.
2021 Cowboy Bebop did the one thing that you're never supposed to do in an anime adaptation: they said that they were gonna improve on the original source material.
Gren's actor even said that the live action "fixed" Gren. How is that not insulting?
I'm not the kind to immediately think something sucks. I try to give everyone and everything the benefit of the doubt. I even gave the Popeye movie a fair sitting, though I think I had experienced Stockholm syndrome halfway through. My hatred of Netflix Bebop was a linear progression. I could handle Popeye better than Bebop!
This adaptation brought out flatly unhealthy levels of anger and hate from me as if it insulted my own mother right to my face. And in a way, it feels like it did. I actually got my mom to start watching Beebop a while back and it resonates with her emotionally so much that she actually has to stop to digest it over time before continuing onward. Let's just say Mom's been through enough to empathize with Faye a lot and outright went to bed bawling when Gren died. I told her to avoid this crap like the plague. There's nothing of value here and I don't want her feeling what I'm feeling when I see this insult. I hate that they did this. I'm glad there will be no second season. I'm hoping whatever you have to say about it, Ben, can at least make me laugh at it because I just want to move on and forget they did this. It's not even ironically funny/bad like other live action adaptations. It's just horrible for me.
Bebop hits those notes. Resonates deeply
@@tagreene06 I still choke whenever Laughing Bull speaks if I'm in a down mood.
Good lord man, the existence of this live action adaptation doesn't invalidate or cheapen the existing Anime.
The Anime will still exist to be enjoyed by anyone who wants to watch it, no live action adaptation or otherwise is going to stop you or anyone else doing that.
I get you have a strong attachment to the original anime, I get the feeling its maybe a load bearing aspect of your identity even. However I can't fathom how anything about this live action adaptation is bad enough to make you feel as personally insulted as you appear.
This Netflix show exists, the original anime exists, both have their own merits.
@@DeepGreenX What you're saying is all well and good but you should note the part where I'm fully aware that my feelings here are straight up unhealthy and that I wanted to move on. In no way can Cowboy Beebop ever be cheapened for me no matter how insulted I feel. That being said, I felt I had to get my piece off my chest while the feelings were raw so I did.
If I had to stop and think about it again with a clearer head would I still feel just as insulted as I did at the time? I dunno. Maybe. For some major aspects probably. Others were probably just things that stacked onto the frustrations.
However, like Ben said it the second part of the review, I have the option to disengage so that's where I think I'm going with this and other cash grab adaptions now that the thoughts and feelings have been put out there and we've all pretty much said what we have to say about it.
I thought we all agreed on this, to NEVER talk about Dragon Ball Evolution - NEVER! Why do you have to wake sleeping nightmares?
Adapting animation to live action is the non interactive equivalent of adapting video games to pachinko machines. It can be done with varying degrees of skill, but since in both cases the result is more limited, it's only really going to appeal to people who don't appreciate the original medium.
well no
if books can have great film adaptions
and some other shows can have great adaptions
loved by old fan
we can find the way still
@@senritsujumpsuit6021 film is LESS limited than books are. It makes sense for adaptations going in that direction to work
@@outsider344 judging from adaptions like Percy Jackson books are plenty spaces
YES. This, exactly. There is a fundamental misunderstanding on the part of American producers about what Anime actually is, at the very starting point of the train of thought they should be having but aren't.
@@senritsujumpsuit6021 Movies/TV are visual mediums, while books are not. Therefore, there are things that the former two have (for example, acting, soundtracks, visual shorthands etc.) that books don't, so there are certain merits in translating a story from one to another.
Meanwhile, animation and live-action are both visual story-telling. There's nothing you can do in live-action that you couldn't do in animation. Quite the opposite, live-action is in almost every way more limiting than animation, so when you translate something from the latter to the former, you will always lose something, but never gain anything in return.
I've never seen the anime cowboy bebop and I HATED netflix bebop.
The dialogue between characters is cringe the race swapping of characters to fit an agenda the just all around cringe of it.
Netflix said it was to "fix the mistakes of the anime"
There is only ONE Cowboy Bebop...
and that's all there is to it.
The Highlander of Bebops.
What about the movie?
@@JKPancake The events in the animated movie take place between episodes 22 and 23. So the movie is indeed included in my opening statement ... There is only ONE Cowboy Bebop.
Bebop itself is a lupin the 3rd ripoff
@@fucker661 lmao they're two different shows.
Netflix's live-action Cowboy Bebop show is the Mulan (2020) of TV shows. It's practically everything wrong with modern American TV in one single show. We all seriously need to stop it with our obsession with nihilism and politics.
The moment they said they were going to "fix the wrongs" I knew it was going to be garbage. You can make a few changes, some slight tweaks, but the saying goes-- if it ain't broke, don't fix it. However that quote seems lost on Hollywood these days, because it's most certainly now: "We're going to fix it because we want to, and you fans are going to like it otherwise you're a entitled manbaby." I still don't understand that rhetoric at all, the fans are the reason these people are collecting a paycheck. Do it right and reap twice the reward, yet they chose to do it wrong and get away scott free to do it again.
Fun fact: they're doing One Punch Man next. Can't wait to hear that it's gonna turn into a Riverdale-esque teenage soap opera when "Steve Tama", with the overarching plotline being that he must find a cure for his baldness.
How do you Fix The Wrongs when:
You’re NOT GOOD IN THE FIRST PLACE
THE ORIGINAL HAD NO WRONGS
There was a lot wrong with the original, especially with the ongoing storyline episodes which tend to come out of nowhere with very little setup, are a complete tonal shift, and are in general poorly written and are only saved by the great art and music.
One of the biggest problems Netboy Beflix has is that it takes the weakest part of the original and tries to make it the core of the show.
All I know is, all it does is inspire me to ensure I listen to fan feedback. I'd rather create a successful series and listen to feedback when I know I've made a mistake, as opposed to shifting the blame. Sonic the movie is still an excellent case where the people involved said "Y'know what, you fans are right. This ain't Sonic." - I'm not expecting Hollywood or the suits to do this all the time, but FFS it annoys me to no end when they think all criticism is abusive.
What was "wrong" with the anime they people behind the Netflix version felt (instead of "thought") they had to "correct"?
It's funny you say that because I think Vicious was never meant to be a hated villain. He was designed to be cool. And they didn't get that here
I have a feeling that american studios just think that they can make live action adaptations of anime the same way Marvel makes movies about their comic books. Using the exact same templates. Seems like the thought-process that a high-pay executive in a suit, completely out-of-touch, would have. "Ah see, this is also a recognizable franchise with a pre-existing fanbase, throw it in the make-a-marvel-movie machine! It'll work just the same!"
And I mentioned Marvel because it's current big hollywood franchise formula. You could compare Dragon Ball Evolution to comic book movies from the 2000s and similarities would arise.
Yes the “Cats” formula. Cats is the biggest grossing musical in the world. Surely it would be barely an inconvenience to make an Oscar winning movie out of it ? Just a few tweaks for a more general audience, slap on some CG , make the characters “cooler”, rip out any subtext and success is guaranteed. Of course Marvel doesn’t do anything like that it takes characters and plot points from the comics but writes totally new stories and rewrites the characters for the movies.
This
Ok when I saw the picture of vicious in the thumbnail I thought it was a behind the scenes outtake of Henry Cavill from The Witcher
Giving Jet a child seem like standard American writing that YMS complains, can't write an interesting character just add a child to add stakes and relationship
It's interesting that every single time they turn a Guy Black they are also a bad/worse parent with that
And the child was only introduced so that she could become a hostage for Vicious :facepalm:.
It's everywhere in gaming too. Kratos was given a child. Last of us is about father child like relationship. They even modified Neir from originally being a brother and sister to father and daughter relationship just so americans would be able to get it I guess?
Used to be they would do a couple in a relationship to make the audience care and relate to the characters, it’s how James Cameron wrote his scripts.
@@Vesperitis Wrong
I can’t help but think the thumbnail is a dig at NC. And the entire internet saying that Ed felt like she was written by Doug, it all makes sense.
There’s one thing I like about the Netflix bebop: it made me appreciate my fav anime more
Toonami New Years Day Bebop Marathon starting 1AM!!
20:39- Is THAT the only time we saw Ed in this whole thing?!?!
Good thing I don;'t even subscribe to Netflex.
If it helps put things in perspective, I'm someone who always felt that the Bebop anime greatly suffered from being over-hyped, and I'm still in the "screaming profanities at the TV over this" camp, so don't think your fanboyism is to blame for your reaction. The show really was that bad.
I was in the same boat. I could live without the anime and I still felt terribly offended by The Netflix show.
Fully agree
Shame that Yost was a decent writer since he did X-Men Evolution, Earth Mightiest Heroes, and Mandalorian.
I guess this will be his black mark.
Oh god what did they do to Vicious He looks and acts like the villain from the Dungeon and Dragons movie 😂
Which one?
(Yes, there were more than one).
@@battlion507 I would guess Jeremy Irons in the one with one of the Wayan's brothers in it
"LET THEIR RAAAAAAAAAAAAAINNNNN FROM THE SKYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!"
The funniest thing about this is that while the director insisted that the ethnicity of the Character must be respected, they used a Korean Actor to play a presumably Japanese Character cause hey, all Asian are the same right? Also Faye Valentine was directly shown to be from Singapore, which means she's probably Chinese due to her skin color and the fact that majority Singaporean are of Chinese ethnicity but hey, lets just pat ourself on the back for finding one single Asian actor(which was the wrong type of Asian) and totally forgot that she's supposed to be a CHINESE WOMAN! Good job Netflix.
Also apparently you don't need to be faithful to Jet Black, a CLEARLY NOT BLACK CHARACTER. I'm ok with character not casted as actor of the same race. I didn't even care about female black actor playing Hermione(until good old JK pulled a "I don't see color" which was a absolute cringe) but right after you claimed that you cared so much that Spike needs to be casted as the "correct race", you just blatantly changed Jet's race cause what? You're woke? What sort of hypocrisy is this? Go woke go f**k your self.
I can't believe how badly they got the vibe wrong in this series, along with the characters.
I think this is once again the result of another show treating the general audience like they're dumb, so any slow moments and subtly is thrown out of the stain glass window. Things that make Bebop so great in the first place. Although Jet's actor is the best part, he is still too over the top with this character imo, like everyone else. Even with the correct soundtrack, it is still misused alot of the time too.
The only good thing about this Netflix remake is that it got me to watch the anime again on their platform. And what a shock, it is still brilliant.
It's honestly a pet peeve of mine that... Well, most companies seem to be under the impression that characters dropping F-Bombs every five seconds qualifies a show as 'mature', when in reality maturity needs to come from subjects a show tackles rather than being needlessly graphic and profane.
I hope John Cho gets to be a Lead in a show better than this one.
The Live Action Adaptation of the 'Green Bird' sequence in this is just atrocious.
I am at least looking forward to seeing Mason Alexander Park as Desire in the Netflix adaptation of The Sandman.
Personally while Keanu Reeves was considered to play Spike, I think he would have been far better as Vicious.
Benedict Cumberbact as Spike, Keanu Reeves as Vicious. This should have been it XD
@@TheStormWolf10 Actually, I like it the other way around.
@@elasmojones hmmm...a valid choice as well! either or would be glorious XD
I just finished reading Sandman, I'm praying to whoever/whatever is listening that it won't be crap.
@@warped_rider I was hoping that Lee Pace would have been cast as Dream
The beast has been released. The man himself has decided to judge this. Can we survive this trial of pure utter agony.
Can even I fight this? The tears of a broken man who saw the show he loves be tarnished and mistreated.
The Sage erupts in a flaming fury.
The only good adaptation is battle angel Alita. It was incredible and stayed mostly true to the source material.
That and Rosa Salazar and Christoph Waltz were great in that film.
Rosa Salazar deserves more roles. I'd love to see her play Fire in a Justice League film.
How do you make your bland cinematography more interesting? Dutch angles! Just add water!
From Dragon Ball to Speed Racer to Death Note to Ghost in the Shell, and now Cowboy Bebop. You'd think that western live action anime adaptations would stop after every disaster, but alas. This is the world we live in.
The speed racer adaptation was good in my opinion
I didn't mind the Death Note Adaptation either. Yea it was inferior to the anime and even the Japanese live action films but it was fine and didn't warrant the major criticism
Speed Racer was a fantastic love letter to the anime. I loved every single ridiculous frame of it. A true hidden gem.
I thought Dragonball was.....OK. Until Goku turned into a giant monkey. I know he did that in the anime, but in live action it was just.....silly.
Hasn't speed racer been getting a lot of reevaluation this past few years?
You know,, I feel this show would have worked better if they just stuck to a story about a dysfunctional found family of bounty hunters in a grim and gritty space western, making their way through a mostly grounded universe, with of course the occasional bit of comedy and Sci-fi b-movie cheese. This show gets its closest to actually being good when it’s not trying to be Cowboy Bebop, when it tries to be Cowboy Bebop, it falls on its face, and it only gets worse the closer the attempt is (case and point, Ed). It is as the sun to this show’s Icarus. If they simply took inspiration from Bebop, while they did their own thing, not only would they probably have done better but any comparisons between the two would likely have been much kinder. Probably wouldn’t have been a masterpiece, and it probably wouldn’t be winning any awards, but I could have seen people enjoying it.
Alex Hassell's Vicious is about as subtle as Brad Dourif's Wormtongue in this Netflix adaptation. XD
It made sense for Brad's roles,. but what the hell did they tell Alex Hassell about his part?
Also being a protagonist since the late 2010s, you have two options; be a Smarmy Self-Satisfied jerk making unfunny quips all the time, or a stone faced and monotone mannequin.
Its probably a bad idea to remake fantasy and SF anime (and video games) as live action shows. Even with improvements in CGI, even if you try and cut corners (like this show), its simply too expensive. And its pointless. The show already exists. Is an animated show not considered a "real" show? Why not make original shows, or at least shows based on books (or just maybe comics/manga).
I feel so sorry for Keiko Nobumoto. She helped create one of the most iconic, popular and beloved anime of all time. One that has a fanbase that continues even to this day. And one of the last things she saw before she died was a live action show that bastardized it. Rest in Peace, Keito. Your legacy as a great writer will not be tainted.
Honestly, though....this failure is just a blip in Bebop's (and Nobumoto's) expansive legacy. And that drop of water will easily (and inevitably) get lost in the ocean of time.
Really?!? Really!?!! Buddy out of the myriad of things this poor woman was probably thinking about when contemplating her approaching mortality I don’t think, “Man that Netflix show sucks” was high on her priority list. Hell I bet she probably enjoyed seeing some of those creations in tangible space. Dude don’t use the dead to be a troll.
@@Arufonsa1 I agree, Arufonsa1. Robo-Nidai, that was a low blow.
I agree the show has problems, but trying to say that she passed from this show? That's just wrong.
@@ZeltraxMillennium I want to make this clear. That was NEVER the intention of what I said. The entire point was giving my thoughts on how it must have felt for her. Given how other people who worked on Cowboy Bebop have voiced their displeasure at the Netflix show, I do not think it was unfair to assume she was not pleased with it either. Honestly, I feel the better argument against me would have been "Don't act like you know what she thought of the show or if she even saw it at all."
@@robo-nidai4236 My apologies.
Honestly, I think Keiko Nobumoto was more concerned about her health and other things compared to hearing about a show she wrote was getting a live-action adaptation.
But yeah, that's all I wanted to say - I personally liked the show for what I saw from it, so let's just move the heck on & try not to use the recently deceased like that in casual conversation again.
Dang, I forgot how much of a banger the Big O theme is
Sounds like the Netflix Bebop made the same mistake animated Killing Joke made, mixing excellent dialogue from Alan Moore's original comic with weak dialogue written for the parts that weren't in the comic.
I get what you mean. Brian Azzarello's Writing Style just did NOT match up with Moore's...
Thing about "fan entitlement " is fans are the only reason these fandoms are around for these companies to try and cash in on. If anything fans to so more gatekeepong to keep stuff from getting ruined like ao many fandoms have. The American comic book industry is a good example of how fandoms get ruined. You can't give away modern Marvel of DC comics as birdcage liner
But the fans are the driving force of the operation
This was a great episode. I really enjoyed the clips put in here like "Shut up!" And what not. It's pretty funny, reminds me of the old era of comedic reviews/retrospectives. Also hello Spoony!
RIP, space cowbow. 🕯️
Shout out to John Cho. Dudes been around for awhile and still has amazing talent. Just wish Netflix would’ve passed on bebop
Sage! What happened to that guy with the eye patch?
13:17 yeah, this I can say, they really downgraded Vicious.
15:23 yeah, I'm not sure what they did but Vicious in the anime was more-all you need is his name being mentioned and it makes us go "Oh f---- GET OUT GET OUTGETOUT!"
He was life threatening. Life action Vicious? He's a rich brat with zero brains and a kitten could take him down.
Live Action Vicious is like the fat Sephiroth cosplayer who can barely lift his prop sword.
@@hariman7727 An edgy Mall Ninja warrior... in 2003...
One thing that I don't see a lot of commentary on despite how big a departure it is was the way that the Bebop crew was kept from collecting bounties. In the anime, it was always some sort o random circumstance or, if they actually did collect the bounty, they got hit with a big expense that they had to pay off. In the Netflix adaptation, they were deliberately screwed out of bounties by the cops shooting the perp or a bunch of added fees being tacked on that soaked up most of the money. It was not a good change.
Canceled after one season? I guess it was for the best.
Wait... did I see Spoony for a bit?
I wasn’t sure about this show going in, but after the first episode I was able to see it for what it was - a remixed version of Cowboy Bebop.
The music cues are in different places or different episodes, characters appear in places they weren’t before, episodes play out differently than they used to, characters have different backstories or attitudes…
It’s a remix. Not a replacement. And I fucking loved it.
I’m also honestly surprised to see no mention of how many Easter eggs there are in the background of so many scenes - you can tell how much love the showrunners have for the original based on that alone.
Same. I thought it was pretty decent.
Excellent use of clock work orange.
17:39-18:00
It’s like a bad or generic abridged series with how the joke is just that everyone is constantly mean-spirited towards everyone else. No depth, or at least decent jokes, clever script writing, or good comedic timing to make it actually funny.
I wish Netflix focused their funds on BUYING more anime or idk funding new ones rather than this live Action plague
Example: Arcana
@@TheStormWolf10 YES!!!
Actually we have high definition game boys now; Analogue Pocket
Oh, a two parter. This gonna be good.
Guess he's saving how they tarnished Faye and Edwad for part 2. LOL
Is it gonna be good? Every bebop 2 parter is bad.
The Vicious guy is a terrible community theater type of awful
Could never hear "Vicious" say, "And you shall bleed tears of scarlet" and feel the same shiver i got hearing him say it in the anime. Let alone think he'd be capable of it. He looks like Lucius Malfoy's understudy... actually, lucius woulda have probably been a better choice. Carrying the half-open snake-like eyes that Vicious had in the anime rather than bug-eyed lemur's. But hey. As I've been saying since the Netflix Death Note, "They're gonna keep doing this. And hey, let em. Let them make something that'll crash and we know it'll crash. Least we'll still have the originals."
This is the most footage i have seen from their version of baybap... it sucks. Jet was fine tho. EDIT: Holy shit their vicious is really really really bad, uncanny bad.
I didn't except Netflix to adapt Cowboy Bebop at his computer into a show!
I feel like the biggest issue with Vicious is the same gripe I have with Sephiroth in the FF7 remake. Both are instances of "Yeah, people are expecting it so we kinda have to have at least *some* reference to 'em" but... then the respective show/game runners forgot that the character of Vicious and Sephiroth aren't... really all that important. The characters are barely even characters in their originals and that's okay, because of what they represent. Vicious is the ghost of a life that Spike can't escape from, the specter of the life he spends the entire series running from. Sure we hear about Spike's time in the Syndicate but not much beyond that, and that lack of direct influence on the overall plot - or lack thereof in the original Bebop's case - gives Vicious the same air as Darth Vader. A looming force of nature to best be avoided. Giving him that much screen time just draws all the flaws as a person Vicious would have out into the open and shines a spotlight on it to the point that even Skeletor would be telling him to chill and kills any credibility he would've otherwise had.
I watched the first episode, saw Vicious, and then proceeded to never watch another.
D cups...... full of justice!
One of the few times the tease for a second part has actually really intrigued me.
I'm a fan of the show mostly by osmosis. I've watched clips, read synopses in articles about this adaptation, and seen a few episodes in a sleep-deprived haze back in my teen years on adult swim. Even as a casual fan the adaptation just... structurally isn't good. If they want to pull the "it's trying to be its own thing" card, they need to make sure it can stand on its own. It really can't, though.
Bebop was that thing that be done again. Just watch the original. I wish they would of explored the universe it is set in over retailing the story. They could do that without ever referencing the original crew once. Just have the ship with a new owner decades, or even centuries later.
As someone who had zero exceptions for this show, I'm not mad at the show at all especially now it's been cancelled. I know that it will become forgotten in a few years time.
TH-cam has not recommended your channel in such a long time. It's good to see your content again. Subbed!
BENNETT'S ABOUT TO GO *OOOFF*
You have no idea......
@@BennettTheSage LET'S GOOO!!!!
Ooooh, shit. Bennett is about to hit love Hina levels of rage. *Ducks behind a box*
That Spoonyone joke....too soon Sage, we are still mourning his death , Noah Antwiler is still alive, but Spoony died and it's fucking tragic
Literally couldn't make it through my requisite three episodes to see if this Netflix show would get better.
Same, I watched the first episode and just couldn't go any further. I'm totally ok with reinterpretation / modification of past works but this was just objectively not good.
The video parts being called Chapters instead of Sessions makes me unreasonably mad lol
UGH, oversight on my part -.-
This was not a good show. I made it halfway through and it had become background noise. There was some major tonal whiplash, especially the scenes with Viscous. Everything looked like a set, not a real, lived in world and part of an expansive universe. Also, so many Dutch angles, in so many shots. I am baffled.
“Or is a wizard making you do this?” is my new favorite line from you. XD
That cutaway to Midnight Mass when addressing Netflix's better shows is real telling. I couldn't think of a better comparison betweeng good and god awful on the platform. Both 1 season 2021 productions too.
Nice to see you back on form.
Nice new intro too prefer the old one with that chun li vega fight scene soundtrack x
It probably would have helped if the writers knew that the show is only like 20% comedy.
Most of the characters in the anime have this melancholic expression in their scenes, and huge majority of the show is nonverbally communicated from Spike's unusual expression of pure optimism to Vicious' animalistic sneer.
...It also probably would have helped if the writers had a shred of maturity in their dialogue: Toilet humor /= references to classic poetry and old kung fu movies.
glad someone agreed mufasa did an AMAZING job. hope the guy has good medical because his back has to be kiling him from carrying this atrocity.
Well...at least they got the Corgi right.
woof...
Think we can trick Netflix into doing Space Dandy?
In the more recent examinations of the Stats, the Bebop Show lost almost ALL of its viewership after the first week
So while it was in the top 10 in its first week it had NO legs for long term pull
Most of the analysis I've seen says that it is unlikely that most of the viewers even completed the whole season before dipping out, and that is why there was no future for it
The actors and writers going on Twitter and actively antagonizing the fans probably didn't help
What is it with so many makers antagonizing fans these days? What happened to the backbone when something flopped, you just admitted "we fucked up, have to try to learn from these mistakes for the next time" ?
@@samuellaakso7012 Twitter breaks a person's inner monologue.
Because until the rise of social media actors and writers never had to deal with fans outside extremely controlled environments.
Now each of them is on the twit-er and we get to see them unscripted and without the PR filter.
And guess what? They are a bunch of seethingly self-righteous melodrama addicts used to people practically worshiping them.
Nothings changed, its just now instead of some newspaper rag telling us "Celebrity X said Y about Z" and three other wastes of paper coming up with different stories; we get it straight from the horse's mouth....Isn't the truth liberating? XD
To be fair, when you release the entire season at once, you ‘re going to lose steam almost immediately, unless you have a great cliffhanger and the show is fantastic
@@Mister-Thirteen I feel like that misses the opposite end of that equation, the one where fans can also be complete and utter bastards and thus provoke creators. Now I'm not saying that is the case here, but how many times have we heard of X or Y actor having been singled out for the sin of creating or starring in a production that wasn't liked? Like we've literally had actors hounded so badly in their lives that they stopped doing so because it isn't worth the vitriol received.
why did u have to remind me Sage.......i miss spoony.
quality content as usual
Oh, JESUS! I actually mostly new the black mail scene from screen shots on twiter, but MAN the delivery makes it so much worse.
Netflix is such a dark bargain; they're willing to pay for your moonshot project but then six months later they already expect you to be finished with season 2.
Vicious is such a travesty in this. They had a decent idea of exploring his background but fumbled it by characterizing him like that. It just makes it even harder to watch. The rest I can deal with but Vicious, oof
Around 11:38 in the video, reloading your gun is SO DRAMATIC with the jazzy background. :Kappa:
Oh man waiting patiently for you review on this one💯.
Well, that explains why the writing reminded me of bad Marvel dialogue.
Problem is not simply the look and sound and such of the Netflix Cowboy Bebop.
The problem is that it's utter unwatchable garbage, which captures almost nothing of the spirit and style of the original that made it so popular.
It's like they weren't even trying to make it good, whether they realize it or not.
And the final nail in the coffin is radical Edward, who should not have been played by a boy because that both changes the energy and presence she has on screen, and eliminates tomboys.
Heck, since radical Edward was a redhead I'm surprised they didn't make her black too.
Sadly, thats how society is now. If a girl acts a bit more masculine or likes more male centric things she's not a tomboy, she's either transgender, nonbinary or gay and vice versa for any boys who like more feminine shit.
@@thefanwithoutaface8105 three of the best friends I have are tomboys, and all of them are happily married to men.
Tomboys have been fighting for decades to get people to realize that the "durr hurr tomboy lesbian" stereotype is a lie.
@@hariman7727 Yup, it sucks since I personally find tomboys to be a bit on the attractive side myself. Sadly now like I said, if a girl is tomboy they're basically labeled as either gay or someone with some gender identity disorder.
Can you do the Magic Knight Rayearth series and OVA in your later works?
The wonder of Joss whedon writing infecting scriptwriters will be the deathblow to shows that had the potential of being great. Characters reduced to quips and wink wink nudge jokes instead of being played straight. I hate this timeline and I hate the MCU for bringing this on us.
As someone who was never fond of his writing in the first place, this really chaps my ass.
Ironically, isn't Firefly a better live action Cowboy Bebop than this?
I mean, it worked for shows like Firefly, because it was centered around those kind of relationships with the cast. But yes, it's a huge problem when EVERY SINGLE SHOW has to have Wheadon dialogue.
@@huxleyable Not just Cowboy Bebop, but also kinda Outlaw Star too.
Firefly is pretty underrated now in hindsight.
This show was bad, but it was funny that you pointed out that the crew are constantly at each other's throats because one of the FEW things I enjoyed was that in Netflix Bebop, Spike and Jet find out about what Faye's been through and become really supportive of her. I don't know if that would've made for a better STORY for Faye in the long run, but I always kind of pitied her in the original and it was nice to see her not try and carry that weight (sorry) all by herself.
The main fumble to this adaptation was the writing. I support the main actors who did their best to portray such iconic characters but the story and how the show was directed made it hard to enjoy and feel satisfactory for me.
NGL, I hadn't heard about Yu Yu Hakasho yet. I stopped the ep just to scream for a minute.