As a amillennialist, I admire your ability Jack to let Sam speak and share. Thank you for your insistence on being united with Brothers who have a different eschatology. Great interview.
I read Left Behind as a kid as well. After being so fed up with dispensational sensationalism I discovered amillenialism (from a dispensationalist hilariously enough; Mike Winger) and I'm quite happy with where I am now.
There is a common gospel reality behind all of these scholastic systems: 1. Christ will return in glory to judge the living and the dead. 2. The resurrection of the faithful to glorified bodies will take place. 3. The age to come: a new heavens and new earth will be inaugurated. I appreciate amillennialism for its attention to the themes of prophetic scripture, particularly the explicit critique of the oppressions in this age. I appreciate dispensational premillennialism for its reminders of God's love for the House of Israel, and his work until the end of the age to bring many to repentance, surely constituting an antidote for any clinging vines of antisemitism within Christian congregations. I appreciate historical premillennialism for its literal analysis of end times chronology, a reminder that sometimes that which God declares will literally happen and not just act as a figurative sign. And I appreciate Paul the apostle's counsel not to speculate and to hold all knowledge with humility.
Thanks to Dr. Storms. I really enjoyed listening to what he had to say on Amillennialism. As an Amillennialist (and a continuationist) myself, I just wanted to also say, thank you, to Jack Coultas! What a gracious host he was during this interview in allowing Dr. Storms to freely present his position on eschatology without contestation. Despite the fact that Dr. Storms doesn't line-up with his own Pre-mil view. It's a great example and testimony to all Christians that we should be loving and gracious to each other when discussing the topics of theology and doctrine that are debatable and that we disagree on. Obviously, we always stand in unity on the non-debatable doctrines like the Trinity, Christ's Deity, inerrancy of scripture, etc. But where it's valid to ascribe to a different position on different aspects of theology, may we all follow brother Jack Coultas' gracious example in this video, which we know he modeled after Christ's own examples and carried out by the power of the Holy Spirit in him (a temple of God). God bless you all my brothers and sisters in Christ!
Man, what an AWESOME interview. Really, people who know how to do this are very rare, to have this healthy conversation, touching the hard parts and giving plenty of space for all that has to be said Thank you for this great work!
When it comes to Dispys who replace Christ with unbelieving ethnic Israel it becomes a primary issue in my eyes. Christ is the true Israel. And to say God will dwell in a building made with hands in a future earthly millennium where there will be sacrifices again is an offense to Christ. Dispys promoting the idea God had two distinct people with two different means of salvation, it becomes very serious.
Your statement about Satan being bound from taking up a final battle explains Paul’s statements on the man of lawlessness - the same which restrains him is what Satan is bound from doing.
*QUESTION FOR AMILLENNIALISTS* I haven't spent much time studying the amillennial view and so my understanding of it might be incorrect. If so I am open to correction. But one thing I think that speaks against the millenium as being a recapitulation is the fact that throughout the book of Revelation we see the fate of satan as a progression. In the initial stage of this progression satan would have entered the tribulation period as he is today - i.e. being the ruler of the kingdom of the air, but then later on in the book we see that he is cast out of heaven. From there on he is confined to the earth, working as he does by incarnating the antichrist. In chapter 20 we see as the last stage of his descent that he is thrown into the abyss, to finally en up into the lake of fire. That, I think, makes sense. In the amillennial view however it seems that he is both in the kingdom of the air and bound in the abyss at the same time. I can't see how anyone could possibly make sense of that. But more importantly, I also struggle to see a reasonable explanation as to _why_ a recapitulation of the entire church age would be squeezed into that small passage - stuck in between the end of the tribulation and a passage explaining what happens to those who were beheaded during that time. Why put it there? It just seems disjointed from the rest of the text. Again, it doesn't make sense. What I think does make sense is that it is included there because it establishes the context of the next passage. Before we know the fate of the beheaded saints we need to understand that there will be a thousand year period during which they will reign: "They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years." (Revelation 20:5) So how could the resurrection saints come to life and reign for a thousand years if the thousand years began a couple of thousand years prior to them being beheaded? Wouldn't that involve the use of some kind of time machine? Because otherwise I don't see how that is possible. Or is there something I'm missing here?
We all see thru a “Haze” we can not see clearly so we have different thoughts based on what we believe. I think that we are wrong on certain things and when all truth is finally reveled we will all be pleasantly surprised. Until then we must be willing to change our minds, repent….. and not be dogmatic and divisive.
Like, Dr. Sam, I too accepted the pre Trib doctrine, but upon deep study, the inconsistencies became glaring. PreTrib teaches that Daniel's 70th week is future, and thus a 7-year tribulation for the Jews is owed. How can that be if the Old Covenant, under which the prophecy was to be fulfilled, was replaced with the New Covenant in His Blood? Almost the first ministerial words from Jesus were “the time is fulfilled”(Mark 1:15). What time? The 70 weeks of Daniel. Scripture says the main reason Jesus destroyed national Israel, her Temple and City, was because they did not know “the time of their visitation” (Luke 19:44) - what time (?) when Messiah would come according to Daniel - the end of the 69th week, also known as, the beginning of the 70th week. But, they weren't living out of the Scriptures, they weren't looking for Him. Further, Jesus told Peter to forgive a wrong 70 times 7 times or 490 times, this is the same amount God forgave Israel 70 times 7 years or 490 years. Jesus fulfilled all of Daniel 9:24 with His First Coming, and the Disciples completed the 70 weeks preaching the Gospel exclusively to Israel in the Temple for the second half of the 70th week And don't be deceived by the newer translations like NASB or ESV2011 that insert an elusive antiChrist figure into Dan 9:27. The KJV has mis-translations, but on this verse, they are correct. The three instances of “he” is the Messiah. The Messiah is the one who desolates the house of Israel, and they will be left desolated right through to His Second Coming (the consummation), when the new earth is established. (Dan 9:27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: (Mark 14:24) ...“ *This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.* (Dan 9:27 continued) and in the midst of the week *he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,* (Heb 10:12) But this man, *after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever,* sat down on the right hand of God; (Dan 9:27 continued) and for the overspreading of abominations *he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation,* and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. (Matt 23:37) “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem,... (Matt 23:38) *“Behold, your house is left to you desolate* ! When Jesus Returns, its' with fire and He will melt the heavens and the earth ON THAT DAY, so how can a normal, sinful earth continue for a 1000 years? And who would populate it (?) - the Saints are with Him, and the rest are judged and tossed in the Lake of Fire on that day. (2Pet 3:10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which *the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.* (2Pet 3:12) Looking for and hasting unto *the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat* ? One more sticking point from the pre Trib view is tRev 20:4, that states the martyrs are “living” with Christ, so they believe they must be alive for a future 1000 years on earth. But Paul says whether we are alive or die in Christ, we are still living with Him: (1Thess 5:10) … *whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.* Lastly, this is a hard thing to hear, but the rebuilt Temple, and Old Covenant reign on earth of the Jewish people with Messiah, comes straight out of the Kabbalah. It's Jewish mysticism and from the pit of hell. Look into the millions of donations to U.S. seminaries (especially Dallas Theological) from the Kabbalists and it's no surprise they teach only one view, that cannot be supported by Scripture.
This is good Bible verses, I too am a Amill believer, just have a hard time with a New Heaven and earth here once it been desolved... the gospel of John ch 14 Jesus tells his disciples that He's gone to prepare a place for them in Heaven...First Thessalonians 4-18 says will be forever with the Lord? please fill free to give me your thoughts...thanks!
@@gregorywilliams3769 Many people believe the Saints will live in Heaven forever, but the souls of the departed return with Jesus when He comes back to receive their physical resurrected bodies. And, the physical redemption of the earth has been the plan since the fall of Adam and Eve. The scroll in Revelation 5 is the deed to Earth that Adam lost to Satan through his sin, and The Lamb purchased back for us with His Blood. Our blessed hope is the fact that He's coming back to earth. When He conquers death at His Return, The Father will remove the effects of sin and restore the earth better than the first paradise because Revelation 21:1, states there will be no more sea on the new earth. That means the chaos and physical damage due to the consequences of sin will be removed, where we will be living in the Eternal Kingdom. And, I so hope, even the animals will be resurrected, as all of creation has been groaning (Rom 8:22-23) during this period of fallenness, and its devastation. Whatever happens, we will be with, and under the care of, Our Father God Almighty and Our Great Savior, Jesus - eternity will be unfathomably perfect. How indefinable is the forgiveness and goodness of God toward us? (Rev 21:2) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, *coming down from God out of heaven,* prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. (Rev 21:3) And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, *the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them,* and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. (Rev 21:4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: *for the former things are passed away.* (Rev 21:5) And he that sat upon the throne said, *Behold, I make all things new.* And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. (Rev 21:6) And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. (Rev 21:7) *He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.*
Almost an hour into this and must pause to say several things. First, I REALLY am enjoying this and finding it VERY interesting and pleasing. I'm REALLY am appreciating the conversation and the back and forth. Eschatology is the weakest link in my theological chain. I guess you could say I'm Pan-Trib and Pan-Mil. I see solid reasoning, sound points, and probably truths in all three views. I love it when the lightbulb comes on to illuminate things I hadn't "seen" before and Sam just did that in this video. I've only seen Sam Storms a few times before. The first time, I believe, was "An Evening of Eschatology" which I've seen 4-5x now and enjoyed it each time. I'm sure it won't be the last. I don't remember what the last time was about now but I seem to recall strenuously disagreeing with him. Nonetheless, I LOVE the way he interprets Scripture and seems to have a REALLY good and proper hermeneutic. Another thing I REALLY LOVE about Sam is his ability to say "I don't know" and "I'm not convinced but I'm open to that". When it comes to the Book of Revelation it seems to me that is the position we should have. To hold it with an open hand. I could go on but I wanna just say that the lightbulb went on as he talked about the Temple and I couldn't agree more. But I had never seen it quite in the words that Sam used and that was REALLY helpful. Maybe it's because I had recently read some of the prophets where Israel had Baal and Asherim in the Temple! And Judas had their own temple with its idols. And how the wrath of God was so stirred up that He eventually said there was NO curbing his anger and He would destroy that temple and kill all the idolaters. What better picture of that than the Antichrist sitting himself up in the "Third Temple"? And how ironic is it that God's Chosen People, His Elect Israel, will be the ones to bring it about just as they were before with the Second Temple AND with His Elect One and his final Chosen People.
The very fact that the Mount of Olives is intact proves that the Second Coming of Jesus Christ is yet in the future. He’s soon to come! Praise the Lord!
If when we die we go do heaven, why does it say.."and the dead in Christ will rise first"....why do the dead in Christ need to rise again if they were already in heaven?
Paul states that when we die “to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.” (2 Cor 5:8). The book of Revelation mentions the souls of departed saints a number of times in Heaven. The orthodox Christian understanding is that when we die our souls go to heaven to be with Jesus. Then at the future resurrection, we receive new resurrected bodies. Some believe this will happen to Christian’s before the literal 1000 millennial reign of Christ, others at the new heavens and new earth. This is mentioned in 1 Cor. 15, 1 Thess. 4, Rev. 19-20 and a number of other places.
I think Post-Mil is the most incorrect and sounds the most ridiculous but I’m open to both Amil and Pre-Mil. Trying to decide which one is right. I’d like to hear him explain what it means that the lamb will lie down with the wolf, etc.
If the Return of Christ happened in AD 70, as Sam Storms believes, then please explain to your audience why the Mount of Olives is still intact to this day?
The Great Tribulation is “not since the creation of the earth or will be again” How do you reconcile the flood and the Holocaust ? How do we reconcile that every prophecy regarding Christ’s first coming were fulfilled LITERALLY - and yet we expect these to all be Symbolic ? Do you believe that ancient Rabbi’s thought their Avenger of Blood would LITERALLY appear on the colt of a donkey? No, certainly they didn’t. Which is how they missed it. These views are repeating the patterns of the Rabbinical leaders of the first century again.
I don’t know what I am. I am not a post millennial I am sure though. But my husband is amil and a continuationist. Actually a lot of people I know are.
Regarding the first ressurection, doesn't Matthew address this? "and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.“ Matthew 27:52-53 Are not the bodies of the saints being raised the literal description of a ressurection apart from Jesus ressurecting?
I agree with most of what Sam said but I do believe Matthew 24 is talking about the second coming of Christ. When he destroys the world with fire he will come down from the clouds & everyone will see him. I don't think we have to stretch ourselves to make that make sense, that is the Day of the Lord
There’s zero mystery regarding the 144,000. It’s literally spelled out. It is 12,000 from each tribe of Israel - there is no reason to seduce symbolism when it tells you what it means. It is the remnant protected in Israel when the desolation occurs and the next literal Holocaust happens.
The following proves Pastor Sam Storms is correct, based on the whole of scripture. Revelation 20: Does your interpretation agree with all other scripture? If the Book of Revelation is chronological, why do we find the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others in Rev. 11:15-18? (Chronological or Recapitulation?) (Literal vs. Figurative?) Based on the following scripture, will immortals and mortals both live on earth for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will there be renewed animal sacrifices in earthly Jerusalem for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will Christ conduct funeral services for mortals killed in accidents many years after His Second Coming? Will graveyards be needed? Can the following questions be examined without ridicule, and condemnation, based on the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:18-24? Can the number 1,000 be used in a symbolic manner? Psalm 50:10 Does an angel with a key come from heaven and open the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2? Why did the angel have to unlock the pit if it was not locked previously? Who is the king of the angels in the bottomless pit found in Revelation 9:11? Are some of the angels already “bound” in some manner in Revelation 9:14? If the beast comes up out of the pit in Revelation 11:7, where is the beast before that time? Are wicked angels already in chains in the verses below? 2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. John sees “souls” at the beginning of Revelation chapter 20. Are these the same “souls” found in Revelation 6:9-11? Is the “first resurrection” in Revelation 20:5 the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation? Were the two witnesses bodily resurrected from the dead in chapter 11? (Rev. 11:11) Are there two different types of resurrection in John chapter 5? This passage was also recorded by the Apostle John. John 5:24 (Spiritual) ? Were you dead, and now you are alive? John 5:27-30 Christ describes the bodily resurrection and “hour” of judgment of “all” the dead. Who is the “strong man” who is bound in Matthew 12:26-29? How is Satan “bound” in Revelation 20:3? Can Satan be bound with a chain, like one from the hardware store? What did the demon possessed man do to his chains in Mark chapter 5? How many mortals are left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46? Isaiah 65:17-25? Are people really dying in verse 20? Context, Context, Context… The New Heavens and New Earth are found at the beginning of the passage, and the end of the curse is found at the end of the passage. What happens if verse 20 begins with a negative statement? "There will be no more..." Was Paul expecting Christ to return "in flaming fire", taking vengeance on those who do not know God in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10? How would mortals survive this fire? Does the fire come at the end of Revelation 20? Did Paul expect both the living and the dead to be judged at the appearing of Christ, in 2 Timothy 4:1? When is the judgment of the dead in Revelation 20? Is it the same judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18? What is the restitution of all things at the return of Christ in Acts 3:20-21? Will Christ's sacrifice at Calvary also reverse the curse, at His return? Does death die at the last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:50-55? Why did Jesus correct the woman at the well when she said earthly Jerusalem was the place to worship? See John 4:20-24. Why did Paul say the Jerusalem above is our “mother” in Galatians 4:24-31? What is the inheritance of the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16? Is the third temple found in 1 Peter 2:4-10? Is this temple just as real as a temple made of earthly stones? What was Peter expecting on the day of the Lord when He comes as a thief in 2 Peter 3:10-13? Do we find the judgment of both the living and the dead at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, in Revelation 11:15-18? Why do most preachers ignore the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18? What does it prove about the chronology of the Book of Revelation? ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Is there a correlation between Revelation 20 and earlier passages in the Book of Revelation? Is Revelation chapter 20 another example of “Recapitulation”? Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. Rev_18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Judgment Before the Great White Throne. Rev_19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
The passages in Romans you cited say nothing about the precise timing of the lifting of the curse on creation. You had me thinking for a moment maybe but when you read the text there is nothing contradictory there - it doesn’t exclude or include timing within or outside of the millennium- I am so confused why you would site that passage as the key to your doctrine change ? Sincerely not being dismissive - I’m being sincere - I see NOTHING in the text to lead me to that conclusion. Or any for that matter on this issue.
25:00 Wow! By stating that All Amillenialists & Premillenialists believe that Rev 19 is the End of History, you are saying that the End of History occurred in 70AD !!! See Mt 22:1-14
I never read Left Behind. amil is not biblical, a rcc invention. dispensational is sound. THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT USES OF THE WORD “DISPENSATION” IN THE HOLY BIBLE: A. The Word Dispensation Is sometimes Used to Indicate a Dispensing of (a giving out of) God’s Grace, as in Ephesians 3:2 (cf. 1 Cor 9:17; Col 1:25). This Grace Has Been in Effect since Adam’s Fall into Sin (Gen 3:21; 6:8). B. The Word Dispensation Is also Defined as, and Is Used to Indicate, “a period of time in God’s dealings with man.” (Eph 1:10). These Dealings Change in each Dispensation, and several of Them Have a Period of Overlap with other Dispensations (see attached chart). C. There Are Seven Dispensations (periods of time) and one Transitional Period (a period of change from one thing to another) in the Bible
I'm literally LOL right now. I just got done lauding Sam for many things, I take the pause off, and he says something I disagree with LOL. Sam, if you should see this, I'd love for you to use the hermeneutic you have been and explain has God calling Israel His Elect at that time for that People, anything other than Ethnic Israel. I'll keep this short and say I think you're wrong and that the Elect God speaks of which you refer to is the OTHER "Elect One" which God speaks of. Namely Christ. There are TWO entities called the "Elect" in Scripture. One is Israel and the other is Christ. And even when God divorced Israel and killed all the idolaters He kept a remnant from Judah, and I think Israel, and said He would restore her. I agree with you that there is ONLY one Olive Tree. But I think what you're missing is that the Jews will be grafted into that tree just as the Strangers and Sojourners in the OT could be grafted into the Elect Israel. I agree with you that Jews are NOT saved by any other covenant aside from the New Covenant. Which is why the building of a Third Temple will be such a horrendous abomination to God.
Exegesis goes out the window. Amillennialists love to hear themselves speak. But it’s like they are telling some weird story of their own. Very sloppy interpretation of the Scriptures, and very subtle attempt to misguide the ignorant and immature believers. Lord please open the eyes of these people and let them see Your truth for all its worth!
As a amillennialist, I admire your ability Jack to let Sam speak and share. Thank you for your insistence on being united with Brothers who have a different eschatology. Great interview.
I read Left Behind as a kid as well. After being so fed up with dispensational sensationalism I discovered amillenialism (from a dispensationalist hilariously enough; Mike Winger) and I'm quite happy with where I am now.
There is a common gospel reality behind all of these scholastic systems:
1. Christ will return in glory to judge the living and the dead.
2. The resurrection of the faithful to glorified bodies will take place.
3. The age to come: a new heavens and new earth will be inaugurated.
I appreciate amillennialism for its attention to the themes of prophetic scripture, particularly the explicit critique of the oppressions in this age. I appreciate dispensational premillennialism for its reminders of God's love for the House of Israel, and his work until the end of the age to bring many to repentance, surely constituting an antidote for any clinging vines of antisemitism within Christian congregations. I appreciate historical premillennialism for its literal analysis of end times chronology, a reminder that sometimes that which God declares will literally happen and not just act as a figurative sign. And I appreciate Paul the apostle's counsel not to speculate and to hold all knowledge with humility.
Amil here, enjoyed the show, sam storms is an awesome teacher. His web pages helped me understand daniel
Thanks to Dr. Storms. I really enjoyed listening to what he had to say on Amillennialism. As an Amillennialist (and a continuationist) myself, I just wanted to also say, thank you, to Jack Coultas! What a gracious host he was during this interview in allowing Dr. Storms to freely present his position on eschatology without contestation. Despite the fact that Dr. Storms doesn't line-up with his own Pre-mil view. It's a great example and testimony to all Christians that we should be loving and gracious to each other when discussing the topics of theology and doctrine that are debatable and that we disagree on. Obviously, we always stand in unity on the non-debatable doctrines like the Trinity, Christ's Deity, inerrancy of scripture, etc. But where it's valid to ascribe to a different position on different aspects of theology, may we all follow brother Jack Coultas' gracious example in this video, which we know he modeled after Christ's own examples and carried out by the power of the Holy Spirit in him (a temple of God). God bless you all my brothers and sisters in Christ!
This was great. Amill seems the most biblical to me. Thanks for posting this as your questions were fantastic.
@sourclaim904 nothing biblical about amil 😅
Thank you, Dr. Storms, for clearly explaining this view. To me this the view that makes the most sense.
Dr Storms is spot on!
Two thumbs up. Great interview! Sam is such a great guy.
Loved this, God bless you Sam Storms. My heart says Amen
Been wanting to hear this type of heathy discussion for a while. Thanks guys. God bless you both. Dr Sam Storms ya done good. Love your answers.
Great questions! Thank you for doing this interview!
I really like this guy😉
Man, what an AWESOME interview. Really, people who know how to do this are very rare, to have this healthy conversation, touching the hard parts and giving plenty of space for all that has to be said
Thank you for this great work!
When it comes to Dispys who replace Christ with unbelieving ethnic Israel it becomes a primary issue in my eyes. Christ is the true Israel. And to say God will dwell in a building made with hands in a future earthly millennium where there will be sacrifices again is an offense to Christ. Dispys promoting the idea God had two distinct people with two different means of salvation, it becomes very serious.
So grateful to see a pre mill not disown an Amill, as many of my “friends” have.
Your statement about Satan being bound from taking up a final battle explains Paul’s statements on the man of lawlessness - the same which restrains him is what Satan is bound from doing.
Very enlightened discussion - thanks
I love it when you get hit in the head with texts you already know!
VERY GOOD and clear! 😇
*QUESTION FOR AMILLENNIALISTS*
I haven't spent much time studying the amillennial view and so my understanding of it might be incorrect. If so I am open to correction.
But one thing I think that speaks against the millenium as being a recapitulation is the fact that throughout the book of Revelation we see the fate of satan as a progression. In the initial stage of this progression satan would have entered the tribulation period as he is today - i.e. being the ruler of the kingdom of the air, but then later on in the book we see that he is cast out of heaven. From there on he is confined to the earth, working as he does by incarnating the antichrist. In chapter 20 we see as the last stage of his descent that he is thrown into the abyss, to finally en up into the lake of fire. That, I think, makes sense.
In the amillennial view however it seems that he is both in the kingdom of the air and bound in the abyss at the same time. I can't see how anyone could possibly make sense of that.
But more importantly, I also struggle to see a reasonable explanation as to _why_ a recapitulation of the entire church age would be squeezed into that small passage - stuck in between the end of the tribulation and a passage explaining what happens to those who were beheaded during that time. Why put it there? It just seems disjointed from the rest of the text. Again, it doesn't make sense.
What I think does make sense is that it is included there because it establishes the context of the next passage. Before we know the fate of the beheaded saints we need to understand that there will be a thousand year period during which they will reign:
"They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years." (Revelation 20:5)
So how could the resurrection saints come to life and reign for a thousand years if the thousand years began a couple of thousand years prior to them being beheaded?
Wouldn't that involve the use of some kind of time machine? Because otherwise I don't see how that is possible.
Or is there something I'm missing here?
We all see thru a “Haze” we can not see clearly so we have different thoughts based on what we believe. I think that we are wrong on certain things and when all truth is finally reveled we will all be pleasantly surprised. Until then we must be willing to change our minds, repent….. and not be dogmatic and divisive.
Like, Dr. Sam, I too accepted the pre Trib doctrine, but upon deep study, the inconsistencies became glaring.
PreTrib teaches that Daniel's 70th week is future, and thus a 7-year tribulation for the Jews is owed. How can that be if the Old Covenant, under which the prophecy was to be fulfilled, was replaced with the New Covenant in His Blood?
Almost the first ministerial words from Jesus were “the time is fulfilled”(Mark 1:15). What time? The 70 weeks of Daniel. Scripture says the main reason Jesus destroyed national Israel, her Temple and City, was because they did not know “the time of their visitation” (Luke 19:44) - what time (?) when Messiah would come according to Daniel - the end of the 69th week, also known as, the beginning of the 70th week. But, they weren't living out of the Scriptures, they weren't looking for Him. Further, Jesus told Peter to forgive a wrong 70 times 7 times or 490 times, this is the same amount God forgave Israel 70 times 7 years or 490 years. Jesus fulfilled all of Daniel 9:24 with His First Coming, and the Disciples completed the 70 weeks preaching the Gospel exclusively to Israel in the Temple for the second half of the 70th week
And don't be deceived by the newer translations like NASB or ESV2011 that insert an elusive antiChrist figure into Dan 9:27. The KJV has mis-translations, but on this verse, they are correct. The three instances of “he” is the Messiah. The Messiah is the one who desolates the house of Israel, and they will be left desolated right through to His Second Coming (the consummation), when the new earth is established.
(Dan 9:27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:
(Mark 14:24) ...“ *This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.*
(Dan 9:27 continued) and in the midst of the week *he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,*
(Heb 10:12) But this man, *after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever,* sat down on the right hand of God;
(Dan 9:27 continued) and for the overspreading of abominations *he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation,* and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(Matt 23:37) “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem,...
(Matt 23:38) *“Behold, your house is left to you desolate* !
When Jesus Returns, its' with fire and He will melt the heavens and the earth ON THAT DAY, so how can a normal, sinful earth continue for a 1000 years? And who would populate it (?) - the Saints are with Him, and the rest are judged and tossed in the Lake of Fire on that day.
(2Pet 3:10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which *the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.*
(2Pet 3:12) Looking for and hasting unto *the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat* ?
One more sticking point from the pre Trib view is tRev 20:4, that states the martyrs are “living” with Christ, so they believe they must be alive for a future 1000 years on earth. But Paul says whether we are alive or die in Christ, we are still living with Him:
(1Thess 5:10) … *whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.*
Lastly, this is a hard thing to hear, but the rebuilt Temple, and Old Covenant reign on earth of the Jewish people with Messiah, comes straight out of the Kabbalah. It's Jewish mysticism and from the pit of hell. Look into the millions of donations to U.S. seminaries (especially Dallas Theological) from the Kabbalists and it's no surprise they teach only one view, that cannot be supported by Scripture.
Thank you for your input. Wish you said more. Very interesting.
This is good Bible verses, I too am a Amill believer, just have a hard time with a New Heaven and earth here once it been desolved... the gospel of John ch 14 Jesus tells his disciples that He's gone to prepare a place for them in Heaven...First Thessalonians 4-18 says will be forever with the Lord? please fill free to give me your thoughts...thanks!
@@gregorywilliams3769 Many people believe the Saints will live in Heaven forever, but the souls of the departed return with Jesus when He comes back to receive their physical resurrected bodies. And, the physical redemption of the earth has been the plan since the fall of Adam and Eve. The scroll in Revelation 5 is the deed to Earth that Adam lost to Satan through his sin, and The Lamb purchased back for us with His Blood. Our blessed hope is the fact that He's coming back to earth.
When He conquers death at His Return, The Father will remove the effects of sin and restore the earth better than the first paradise because Revelation 21:1, states there will be no more sea on the new earth. That means the chaos and physical damage due to the consequences of sin will be removed, where we will be living in the Eternal Kingdom.
And, I so hope, even the animals will be resurrected, as all of creation has been groaning (Rom 8:22-23) during this period of fallenness, and its devastation. Whatever happens, we will be with, and under the care of, Our Father God Almighty and Our Great Savior, Jesus - eternity will be unfathomably perfect. How indefinable is the forgiveness and goodness of God toward us?
(Rev 21:2) And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, *coming down from God out of heaven,* prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
(Rev 21:3) And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, *the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them,* and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
(Rev 21:4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: *for the former things are passed away.*
(Rev 21:5) And he that sat upon the throne said, *Behold, I make all things new.* And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
(Rev 21:6) And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
(Rev 21:7) *He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.*
I love you reply, it's so good to here Good sound doctrine...not many will take the time to answer good thoughts!
@@gregorywilliams3769 God Bless you richly Brother!
Almost an hour into this and must pause to say several things. First, I REALLY am enjoying this and finding it VERY interesting and pleasing. I'm REALLY am appreciating the conversation and the back and forth. Eschatology is the weakest link in my theological chain. I guess you could say I'm Pan-Trib and Pan-Mil. I see solid reasoning, sound points, and probably truths in all three views. I love it when the lightbulb comes on to illuminate things I hadn't "seen" before and Sam just did that in this video.
I've only seen Sam Storms a few times before. The first time, I believe, was "An Evening of Eschatology" which I've seen 4-5x now and enjoyed it each time. I'm sure it won't be the last. I don't remember what the last time was about now but I seem to recall strenuously disagreeing with him. Nonetheless, I LOVE the way he interprets Scripture and seems to have a REALLY good and proper hermeneutic. Another thing I REALLY LOVE about Sam is his ability to say "I don't know" and "I'm not convinced but I'm open to that". When it comes to the Book of Revelation it seems to me that is the position we should have. To hold it with an open hand.
I could go on but I wanna just say that the lightbulb went on as he talked about the Temple and I couldn't agree more. But I had never seen it quite in the words that Sam used and that was REALLY helpful. Maybe it's because I had recently read some of the prophets where Israel had Baal and Asherim in the Temple! And Judas had their own temple with its idols. And how the wrath of God was so stirred up that He eventually said there was NO curbing his anger and He would destroy that temple and kill all the idolaters. What better picture of that than the Antichrist sitting himself up in the "Third Temple"? And how ironic is it that God's Chosen People, His Elect Israel, will be the ones to bring it about just as they were before with the Second Temple AND with His Elect One and his final Chosen People.
The very fact that the Mount of Olives is intact proves that the Second Coming of Jesus Christ is yet in the future. He’s soon to come! Praise the Lord!
The thing that troubles me about the mark of the beast, is that without it you can’t buy or sell. How can it not be literal? Great discussion.
If when we die we go do heaven, why does it say.."and the dead in Christ will rise first"....why do the dead in Christ need to rise again if they were already in heaven?
This is why I don't believe we don't go anywhere when we die until the 2nd coming of Christ!
@@techsupport1795 and you'd be correct sir.
Paul states that when we die “to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.” (2 Cor 5:8). The book of Revelation mentions the souls of departed saints a number of times in Heaven.
The orthodox Christian understanding is that when we die our souls go to heaven to be with Jesus. Then at the future resurrection, we receive new resurrected bodies. Some believe this will happen to Christian’s before the literal 1000 millennial reign of Christ, others at the new heavens and new earth. This is mentioned in 1 Cor. 15, 1 Thess. 4, Rev. 19-20 and a number of other places.
I think Post-Mil is the most incorrect and sounds the most ridiculous but I’m open to both Amil and Pre-Mil. Trying to decide which one is right. I’d like to hear him explain what it means that the lamb will lie down with the wolf, etc.
I'm still not convinced of amillenialism or dispensationalism I'm more historically pre millennial
If the Return of Christ happened in AD 70, as Sam Storms believes, then please explain to your audience why the Mount of Olives is still intact to this day?
The Great Tribulation is “not since the creation of the earth or will be again”
How do you reconcile the flood and the Holocaust ?
How do we reconcile that every prophecy regarding Christ’s first coming were fulfilled LITERALLY - and yet we expect these to all be Symbolic ?
Do you believe that ancient Rabbi’s thought their Avenger of Blood would LITERALLY appear on the colt of a donkey? No, certainly they didn’t. Which is how they missed it.
These views are repeating the patterns of the Rabbinical leaders of the first century again.
Not just a rule in Heaven, but on earth. Jesus in Heaven, we are kings and priests now in this age. Rev1:6. Present tense, undeniable.
I don’t know what I am. I am not a post millennial I am sure though. But my husband is amil and a continuationist. Actually a lot of people I know are.
Amil people need to read Jeremiah 3:17
Regarding the first ressurection, doesn't Matthew address this?
"and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.“
Matthew 27:52-53
Are not the bodies of the saints being raised the literal description of a ressurection apart from Jesus ressurecting?
I agree with most of what Sam said but I do believe Matthew 24 is talking about the second coming of Christ. When he destroys the world with fire he will come down from the clouds & everyone will see him. I don't think we have to stretch ourselves to make that make sense, that is the Day of the Lord
There’s zero mystery regarding the 144,000. It’s literally spelled out. It is 12,000 from each tribe of Israel - there is no reason to seduce symbolism when it tells you what it means. It is the remnant protected in Israel when the desolation occurs and the next literal Holocaust happens.
The following proves Pastor Sam Storms is correct, based on the whole of scripture.
Revelation 20: Does your interpretation agree with all other scripture?
If the Book of Revelation is chronological, why do we find the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others in Rev. 11:15-18?
(Chronological or Recapitulation?) (Literal vs. Figurative?)
Based on the following scripture, will immortals and mortals both live on earth for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will there be renewed animal sacrifices in earthly Jerusalem for 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ? Will Christ conduct funeral services for mortals killed in accidents many years after His Second Coming? Will graveyards be needed?
Can the following questions be examined without ridicule, and condemnation, based on the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:18-24?
Can the number 1,000 be used in a symbolic manner? Psalm 50:10
Does an angel with a key come from heaven and open the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2? Why did the angel have to unlock the pit if it was not locked previously?
Who is the king of the angels in the bottomless pit found in Revelation 9:11?
Are some of the angels already “bound” in some manner in Revelation 9:14?
If the beast comes up out of the pit in Revelation 11:7, where is the beast before that time? Are wicked angels already in chains in the verses below?
2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
John sees “souls” at the beginning of Revelation chapter 20.
Are these the same “souls” found in Revelation 6:9-11?
Is the “first resurrection” in Revelation 20:5 the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation? Were the two witnesses bodily resurrected from the dead in chapter 11? (Rev. 11:11)
Are there two different types of resurrection in John chapter 5? This passage was also recorded by the Apostle John.
John 5:24 (Spiritual) ? Were you dead, and now you are alive?
John 5:27-30 Christ describes the bodily resurrection and “hour” of judgment of “all” the dead.
Who is the “strong man” who is bound in Matthew 12:26-29?
How is Satan “bound” in Revelation 20:3? Can Satan be bound with a chain, like one from the hardware store? What did the demon possessed man do to his chains in Mark chapter 5?
How many mortals are left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46?
Isaiah 65:17-25? Are people really dying in verse 20? Context, Context, Context…
The New Heavens and New Earth are found at the beginning of the passage, and the end of the curse is found at the end of the passage.
What happens if verse 20 begins with a negative statement? "There will be no more..."
Was Paul expecting Christ to return "in flaming fire", taking vengeance on those who do not know God in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10? How would mortals survive this fire?
Does the fire come at the end of Revelation 20?
Did Paul expect both the living and the dead to be judged at the appearing of Christ, in 2 Timothy 4:1?
When is the judgment of the dead in Revelation 20? Is it the same judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18?
What is the restitution of all things at the return of Christ in Acts 3:20-21?
Will Christ's sacrifice at Calvary also reverse the curse, at His return?
Does death die at the last trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:50-55?
Why did Jesus correct the woman at the well when she said earthly Jerusalem was the place to worship? See John 4:20-24.
Why did Paul say the Jerusalem above is our “mother” in Galatians 4:24-31?
What is the inheritance of the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?
Is the third temple found in 1 Peter 2:4-10? Is this temple just as real as a temple made of earthly stones?
What was Peter expecting on the day of the Lord when He comes as a thief in 2 Peter 3:10-13?
Do we find the judgment of both the living and the dead at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, in Revelation 11:15-18? Why do most preachers ignore the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some, and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18? What does it prove about the chronology of the Book of Revelation?
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Is there a correlation between Revelation 20 and earlier passages in the Book of Revelation?
Is Revelation chapter 20 another example of “Recapitulation”?
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev_18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Judgment Before the Great White Throne.
Rev_19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Amillenial is just partial preterism in disguise. Rejected.
The passages in Romans you cited say nothing about the precise timing of the lifting of the curse on creation. You had me thinking for a moment maybe but when you read the text there is nothing contradictory there - it doesn’t exclude or include timing within or outside of the millennium- I am so confused why you would site that passage as the key to your doctrine change ?
Sincerely not being dismissive - I’m being sincere - I see NOTHING in the text to lead me to that conclusion. Or any for that matter on this issue.
I think satan is loosened already...
25:00 Wow! By stating that All Amillenialists & Premillenialists believe that Rev 19 is the End of History, you are saying that the End of History occurred in 70AD !!! See Mt 22:1-14
I never read Left Behind.
amil is not biblical, a rcc invention.
dispensational is sound.
THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT USES OF THE WORD “DISPENSATION” IN
THE HOLY BIBLE:
A. The Word Dispensation Is sometimes Used to Indicate a Dispensing of
(a giving out of) God’s Grace, as in Ephesians 3:2 (cf. 1 Cor 9:17; Col 1:25).
This Grace Has Been in Effect since Adam’s Fall into Sin (Gen 3:21; 6:8).
B. The Word Dispensation Is also Defined as, and Is Used to Indicate, “a period
of time in God’s dealings with man.” (Eph 1:10). These Dealings Change in
each Dispensation, and several of Them Have a Period of Overlap with other
Dispensations (see attached chart).
C. There Are Seven Dispensations (periods of time) and one Transitional Period
(a period of change from one thing to another) in the Bible
I'm literally LOL right now. I just got done lauding Sam for many things, I take the pause off, and he says something I disagree with LOL. Sam, if you should see this, I'd love for you to use the hermeneutic you have been and explain has God calling Israel His Elect at that time for that People, anything other than Ethnic Israel.
I'll keep this short and say I think you're wrong and that the Elect God speaks of which you refer to is the OTHER "Elect One" which God speaks of. Namely Christ. There are TWO entities called the "Elect" in Scripture. One is Israel and the other is Christ. And even when God divorced Israel and killed all the idolaters He kept a remnant from Judah, and I think Israel, and said He would restore her.
I agree with you that there is ONLY one Olive Tree. But I think what you're missing is that the Jews will be grafted into that tree just as the Strangers and Sojourners in the OT could be grafted into the Elect Israel. I agree with you that Jews are NOT saved by any other covenant aside from the New Covenant. Which is why the building of a Third Temple will be such a horrendous abomination to God.
Too bad Sam's sound was so bad.
But I've read the Bible..
No we aren't in the millennium.. what nonsense
It's all a load of BS.
Exegesis goes out the window. Amillennialists love to hear themselves speak. But it’s like they are telling some weird story of their own. Very sloppy interpretation of the Scriptures, and very subtle attempt to misguide the ignorant and immature believers.
Lord please open the eyes of these people and let them see Your truth for all its worth!
Spoken like a true pre mil who thinks there is only one view of the end times.
So which is your view? Historic or dispensational?
Great questions! Thank you for doing this interview!