I love it when you go down the rabbit hole of art manufactures. I am always surprised (though I shouldn’t be) how many products are the same and made by same companies but just rebranded. I wonder how many duplicate products I would have bought if it wasn’t for your hard work and research. Thank you Lindsay.
Well, that was really interesting! I have a 24 set of Cotman that I bought a couple of years ago. I just compared them side by side and you are so RIGHT! They are virtually the same. I need to stop buying these dang cute tins. I'm sure I have enough watercolor to last me for at least the next 10 years!
Lindsay, you are my only source for All Things Watercolour! I do not purchase any paints without looking for one of your vids first (I just bought Jane Davenport's Brights set - LOVE them) I am new to watercolour this year and I am thoroughly enjoying it. I bought the Pretty Excellent paints when I saw your vid and I absolutely love them! I thank you very much for doing so much research on all of these wonderful tools. We are fortunate that there are so many reasonably priced offerings out there! Especially for a newbie like me 😊 I appreciate you! Blessings, my dear xo
Thank you for this great information. I began pursuing art as a beginner 2 or 3 years ago, with a Craftsy class called Startup Watercolor. I heard somewhere that it’s really better to get better quality paints (and paper) while learning, so you experience this medium at its best and avoid frustration. That is why I got W&N artist grade and avoided the Cotman. The disturbing thing is not that a company decided to save money by having things made in China, but that Chinese factories took the proprietary info and made their own knockoffs of the better brand. Another comment mentioned the possible future of scarcity of decent quality paints (and insert here any product you want). I hope people will buy the “real” thing and avoid the knockoffs so the companies we know and love will survive better.
I agree. Just saw a review of Amazon branded stuff that is knockoffs of name brand colored pencils and things. I'd rather get the real thing. The danger of outsourcing everything to China or to a monopoly like Amazon, is that they get all the business, put the original company out of business, then they change the formula or raise the prices and we can't find the real thing anymore. Like Amazon can afford to lose money on a product to gain market share, and then buy out the original company. I didn't like seeing all the bookstores in my city close because of amazon, little quaint mom and pop shops going out of business because of places like Walmart. i really prefer the quality and hominess and warmth of the little shops. I care about how employees are treated, where products are sourced, if people are paid enough, and I care about history. If there is a long history of generations of people keeping and refining a brand, and then someone makes a knock off and destroys the first company, that's a tragedy we should attempt to avoid. At least that's what I believe. I used to collect dolls, and there was a company that made fashion doll sized kitchen items and food and dishes. A refrigerator, with water dispenser and ice maker (plastic ice cubes), open the door and it lights up. Stove/oven, and a big kitchen counter with working sink and cabinets. So much better than the pink plastic barbie stuff. Well they bought out the good company and now you can't find high quality mini food stuff anymore.
@@recoveringsoul755 This is an old comment but I wanted to add the other danger of buying off Amazon is that their warehouses now store a lot of goods sold by individual sellers (at least in the US.) If that seller is selling knock-offs or rip-offs or otherwise compromised items with the exact same packaging, but it all goes into the same stock pile with the real stuff/unbroken stuff, then even if you buy from Amazon directly, they might send you a knock-off or a pilfered set (like the seller took a few things out and resold it.) People should try not to buy from Amazon if they have other viable options but bare minimum don't buy anything with multiple sellers. And unless it's a single company you trust who is selling their own products, and no one else is, you're better off buying an item that only Amazon is selling; otherwise you could be gambling over the quality (well, you still might, but the odds get worse.) Plus in general Amazon is just getting flooded with cheap junk which makes it harder to find the good products (including the better quality stuff from China) but Amazon doesn't care, they're obviously happy to have as many items as possible. (I mean yeah they have some control, they can remove items if enough people complain about what they were sold, but there's just so much being sold there now and even the most popular stuff becomes suspect.) Amazon has so much stuff they reuse pages for some items so the good reviews might not even be for the same dang item! And on top of everything else, there are a bunch of online stores. I know it's less convenient to buy from multiple locations even online because of the different rates of free shipping and sometimes you just can't find everything in one store that you really want but if the store has improved quality-of-life web design features, only sells reputable products, keeps your info safe, and is reasonably comparable to Amazon pricing, you're better off buying from them when you can! Buying everything from the mega-stores, like Amazon, won't necessarily kill off all smaller retailers online but it certainly doesn't help. It's been happening for years and their tactics are the same no matter who their competition is. If Amazon had their way, they'd be the only storefront anywhere. They've intentionally destroyed other online storefronts when they weren't able to outright buy before, by dumping their own prices until the other website went under. (I don't remember the example I'm thinking of but they sold diapers and plausibly other baby necessities.) Amazon wants to be a monopoly and they'll do anything to accomplish that goal. 😟
@@DoveJS Oh I agree. I avoid Amazon as much as I can. Didn't even have an account. But I recently ordered a phone to deliver to my door, but I'm in an apartment so they built some kind of centralized package center. So in order to open the compartment with my package, I HAVE to have an amazon account even though I didn't order from them. AND my landlord sends me an email to let me know that I have received a package. I wonder why my landlord and amazon are involved in a transaction that has nothing to do with either of them. How much info are they collecting? Do they know what I ordered? So amazon can put that company out of business too? IF I still lived in a house the pkg would come to my door and I wouldn't have to deal with that nonsense I also refuse to bundle my phone, landline internet and cable connection with one company. I don't want one company controlling ALL my ability to communicate. If their service goes down, or I'm late on my bill, I can't contact anyone to fix it. Bad idea.
@@recoveringsoul755 Oh yeah! lol Sorry I meant this as the general you, and not you specifically. You're blameless. I've had an Amazon account for years but over the past decade I've been trying not to buy anything except maybe once or twice a year when it was my only option. This year I bought a beautiful giant frog plush which I think might've been discontinued, it was strongly discounted and not featured on the manufacturer's website anymore. I had trouble finding an alternative so I eventually sucked it up and bought it from Amazon. Not something I needed but cuddling it has made me happy and reduced some of my bedtime anxiety. No regrets about that purchase but I was stupid and got Prime for several months because Amazon partnered with/owns a website called Zappos and Prime also includes free, easy returns within a full year for that website. I have trouble with confrontation and extremely wide feet so normal shoes aren't an option for me, even regular wides aren't big enough (my feet are short but wiiiide) so stupid me paid them triple via the subscription for two Zappos orders that I did like 8 months apart and only one return. I finally cancelled it, took my lumps with the last pair of shoes which don't quite fit but sort of works (they're double or triple wide), and I'm still mad at myself for paying Amazon for this long (especially since I barely got any benefit; shooting myself in my extra wide feet twice over lol.) I'm definitely part of the problem but having studied a lot of stuff on their website and noticing the most recent trends over the past five years (like not even on purpose, mostly just window-shopping so to speak), I wanted to share some of my observations after reading your comment. Oh! And disturbingly enough, when I made the first order and Zappos called to verify my prime status (I subscribed like right before) I mentioned how they didn't ask for the secret code on the back of my credit card and the nice lady mentioned how they didn't require it like... I'm sorry WTF??? I need to check if there are other options besides Zappos but really I just wish normal shoe stores sold stuff in my size. I hate trying things on but it's super anxiety inducing this way too and so so disappointing when something should fit but doesn't and while the effort isn't hard I still have to go through the motions to return the darn things. Some days I wish I could cut them off and get leg prosthetics but then my luck they'd still need shoes lol. (At least hopefully then in a normal, cheap shoe size where comfort won't matter either.) Also! That's really awkward about your current apartment and landlord situation! Super weird when you didn't order from Amazon. Definitely disturbing even if they're not being actively malicious. Edit: I bet Amazon bought some kind of "distribution" service for the purpose of apartments having package lockers so the employees don't have to hold onto anything and the apartments can't be held liable. Theoretically secure but stupid and yes suspicious to make you have an Amazon account just to access it. I hate that. Another good point there too: some people might have to get the entire service bundle, if their location doesn't offer any other options (although phone service is usually more variable) but I agree, you don't want all of your communication options nestled into one basket. 😅
I got this set over Cotman cos it had extra colors lol, I rly like these paints! Super happy with my purchase, ty so much for all ur hardwork wrt all this research.
I bought the Cotman today through your link of products. Finally decided it was time to upgrade. I’m still a newbie, but I’m loving watercolors. Maybe more than acrylic. Thank you for your honest and thorough reviews.
I'm glad you followed that hunch! It's always interesting to see that sort of deductive process for me. Also I am glad to know how similar they are since I did not like my cotmans XD
Hi Lindsey, I am writing to tell you how much I have loved all your tutorials and paint a longs. I have Fibromyalgae and Sjogrens Syndrome, osteoarthritis, and a whole host of other problem that I am sure you really don't need to hear. I just wanted to tell you how much you uplifted me thru art and card marking. Happy Holidays to you and family, and many more classes and card making. Thank you so much. Jo Ellzey in Louisiana. The storm zeta came through here yesterday and last night and a cold front came after midnight shoving the Hurricane away and giving us beautiful weather today. Needless to say it turned my body into a very painful awaking this morning. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all🇺🇸🖌✝🎊☺️
I just finished using Crayola markers as watercolors and I saw you posted a new review. This is very interesting that they are very similar to Cotman. I don't have any Winsor & Newton but I might have to check these out.
I always love your reviews. I bought a set of Crayola metallic and glitter gel pens last year. I have no problems with them at all. They write well, and all a wonderful shimmer and sparkle to my cards. Just in case you were interested. Thanks for all your hard work.
In the beginning of your video, I thought that emblem looked so familiar, I pulled out a tube of Winsor & Newton to compare. I have to agree with you on everything. Your knowledge of pigments blows my mind. Where does one learn that information?
Thanks, everyone. I have my associates degree in fine arts and in all the art classes I took, no one ever discussed or taught us about the pigments. Just very basic color theory. 😕 None of the books went into them either.
Great review! Thank you so much for all your research and work you put into this. It’s so helpful. When ever I am thinking about investing in an art supply that I don’t have experience working with I always look to see if you have done a review on that product and watch the review along with all the videos that I can find that you’ve used the product/brand I’m considering.
I have a Phoenix Tube Watercolor. It's a gift from my sister. I thought it was cheap so I was not using but it's nice to know it's seem like W&N. I will swatch and compare them. Thanks.
I think they have 2 grades of tubes. I tried the ones they sold in a set at ocean state job lot but didn't like it but they might have a better line as well. I hope you like tjem
last year, in Nov 2019 I checked at Costco for art stuff, since they have things for the holidays. Sometimes they have name brand stuff under another name. They had several art kits that I wanted, Drawing, calligraphy and Watercolor, but I only got the Watercolor one. But it is my 1st one so I have nothing to compare it to. It was about $17 and had 10 tubes of 5 ml colors, 1 tube of white Gouache, 12 watercolor pencils, 2 drawing pencils and a pencil sharpener, 3 cheap brushes, some paper, a instruction book, a little plastic 6 well pallete. There wasn't any pigment info. I think I've only swatched them. The tubes are harder to deal with than pans.
I am so glad that you reviewed these paints before I could purchase them lol, especially since I already have a set of winsor and newton cotmans. I wonder if the phoenix brand might eventually bring this set into craft stores . It would be a nice way to get a nice tin at a cheap price (plus the paints for practice).
Lindsay, this is so interesting! I got the set of 48 last week. I am a vine voice on amazon so I've been working up an extremely thorough review. As part of that review I compared some of their color choices, and I happened to do a paint out of their mauve compared to Cotman mauve. They do contain the same pigments but the hue is VERY different and the Phoenix is far more pigmented. The oddest choice in the set of 48 are 3 pans with fugitive pigments: PY1 and PR3. I will not use them (the fugitive colors). Overall I think these are pretty good paints for people who want to know their pigment numbers but not have the money in their budget for top of the line brands. I would have loved these when I was starting out. EDITED TO ADD: The only cotman I own is mauve to compare them. I wish I could post a pic!
that's intersting, did you swatch mauve from the tube or pan and how old was the mauve you own? I think my late 90s Cotman (back when they used real cadmiums and cobalt and had different series (and prices) on the colors) were better than the modern versions.
@@thefrugalcrafter The swatching was done with dried paint in a pan. The Cotman mauve I have was purchased about 2 years ago, I believe. So it's not very old. I still think there is credence to your assumptions. They may have slightly changed the formula for their own set. At any rate, I hope to post my review in the next few days and I'll leave a link to it here in case you wanted to see that comparison.
@@jenthulhu if you get a chance and you still have the tube try swatching it fresh from the tube vs the pan of pheonix. I know windor and newton says their pan and tube formulations are different. I have not used any cotman Rubens since they started manufacturing in china. The oan to pan comparison was uncanny.
@@thefrugalcrafter I certainly can, but this was dried tube color in a pan. I just realized I misunderstood what you were asking before. My apologies. :D I do not have any cotman watercolor purchased in a pan.
Thanks Lindsay. Oh man! I really miss Ocean State Job Lot. We had them in Connecticut too. Here in Northwest Pennsylvania it's a wasteland. Even our dollar tree is small and limited. 🙄💜
As beginner dropped $200 on watercolors at local craft store. Month later realized could have bought top quality and skipped all the frustration of poor quality. I much rather pay for non outsourced integrity. Lesson learned. Reviews are helpful for the crash course.
I dropped $20 on an artminds(?) brand wheel watercolors set at the local independent art store. Later realized the real Koh-I-Noor wheel was cheaper than that on Amazon. Also, individual water soluble wax pastels/crayons at $2 each on “clearance” -regret city man. That was at a time I could I’ll afford the rip-off.
You detective you! I love this kind of stuff. I read years ago about how this is why there are so many counterfeit products on the market now, for instance, counterfeit high end The North Face clothing. When the company rep goes home for the night, they keep the factory going, using the same pattern but cheaper fabric. They of course have plenty of genuine North Face tags there that they just put on the goods. Come morning, back to genuine!
Thank you for going down the rabbit hole so I don't have to. On a side note I am a new watercolor painter. I bought the Cotman 12 set to start like you recommend. I love them. I later bought the Paul Ruebens set and actually do not like them as well. I just recently bought the Vivio? set that was a crowd funded item for Inktober, but have not used them yet. I think in the future I will buy dot cards to see what paints I like. Then I'm not out a lot of money. Thanks for all the work you do on these videos and for sharing your extensive knowledge with us. It helps a great deal!
Very interesting. I just was prepping my Phoenix 48 Studio Set earlier today. It took me 40 minutes (while watching one of your other videos) just to get the wrappers off and pry those pans out of the tin. Only later tonight when trying to reinsert one pan that had fallen and gone AWOL for a few hours did I realize how to loosen the rows with pans in them. 40 Minutes is frustrating and now that I threw out all the labels as I had to cut them off, I hear I could have taped them on to the swatch page when I do it. At least I still have the pans in the order of the color card that came with them which I pulled out, with a magnifying glass, to follow what you were saying, I noticed that the Burnt Sienna, Light red and Indian Red all had the same pigment PR 101 which is also used as one of the pigments in two other colors. Kind of weird to me, but I am new on this trip of watercoloring. I am so glad to listen to the reviews you have done for the paints I need to review as well as I learn a lot each time. I love to learn new things. I was one of those kids that couldn't admit that I liked school as then I would be taken for a nerd/geek. I love to read and learn new things. Thank you for the time that you take to do these videos.
I haven't seen these but just got the 18 Royal Langnikle fan palette. Walmart is carrying it for ten dollars and of course a decent waterbrush is included. A great deal, and only one complaint and that is no true ultramarine blue. There's an orange I think might have been sacrificed for it. I do have Cotman Ultra so I can put a blurb of it in the mixing fold out. Have you seen them, I know you enjoyed the superior or meeden. They are virtually the same and I love them. Thanks for the review of these, always fun to see new paint boxes come out.
I had a look in my swatch binder which goes back years, I have only one paint made from PR3 swatched and it's a discontinued Blockx colour, pre 2000 I think. The brilliant red in the Chinese W&N set is PR 112 and the vermilion is pr112 and py83.
It’s so tempting because of the pretty blue tin but I’m only a beginner and I envy of artist grade from Renesans to DS to Da Vinci to Sennelier so why do I need Cotman quality ( I do have a set of 14 Cotman). But I’m always interested in this kind of video and how it seems that they are the same or very similar paints as Cotman.
Great, thorough review, as always! I'm not buying any paints right now, but for US $40 I'd personally rather get a 24 set of White Nights pans (I'd actually recommend picking your own set open stock rather than most of their premade sets, but still). You get a ton of paint, more colors, but still a really good quality. You don't get the pretty shimmery blue tin though, to be fair 😅 Honestly, I've not yet come across a better deal than Pretty Excellent - they're just really great paints for the price, and I always compare new-to-me non-artist grade paints to them and find that, for me, they're still the best. And I really do love the tin - I've moved the paints from the plastic insert to half pans in another container, and use the original container for a set of 35 White Nights pans. Super compact and great!
The space between water and colours is buggin' me!😂 I've tried out one tube of cotman and here in India it's kinda expensive. They compare quite similar to the Indian brand Camlin Watercolors. Have you ever come across camlin artist Watercolors btw? I'd love to see you review it. :)
Haven't seen Lindsey do one, bit I still got some videos to watch ^^'. Allan Jay whom she just referenced here did one, if I remember right he has one swatch sheet for the Camlin's. He always does a comparison section in the end of his review videos :)
@@thefrugalcrafter It's not on the German Amazon, either. Their probably not selling them outside of Asia as a whole, are they? I mean, I wouldn't be too awfully surprised if they didn't. The Amazon stocks often do differ drastically between countries. I usually can't even find most of the cheaper colours you're reviewing on the German Amazon - nor can I buy mp3 albums which I would have no trouble finding on the US one, come to think of it 🤔
If one isn't going to use Daniel Smith or M. Graham, I'd say go for White Night's. No need to go below that and they are cheap when you consider the per oz cost.
I do want a set of White Nights! Turner watercolor tubes are also great, for about $5/tube, much less in the sets. I've splurged on some tubes of Daniel Smith.....I figure I can save money, overall, by using Turner (and white nights, van gogh), mainly, but treating myself to DS specialty colors now and then.
I have a set of winsor and newton "london" watercolor tubes from the 70s. Apparently they are what eventually became the cotman line. They're pretty good quality but don't rewet very well. The vintage set of grumbacher finest watercolors I have are way better, so are my vintage set of permalba and liquitex watercolors
I'm not a fan of Marie paints. That said I had the chinese painting set as a child and it was great. They still make that I think but uh is quite a bit more expensive than the american market sets which I dont recommend. They smell awful, shrink and crack and fall out of a palette when dry and are kinda streaky in application. I bought a set a few years ago and ended up donating it.
Thank you so much for replying! I cant think of a better person to ask about watercolors you are like a living encyclopedia for them lol. I appreciate all that you share about them all of us painters can make more informed purchases. I've learned more from watching you than literally anyone or anything else out there. So honestly thank you for all you do and take care!
I also thought that it looked like W&N stuff too. Have you seen the Amazon basics color pencils? Thanks for your great reviews and due diligence research on the companies.
@@thefrugalcrafter Iwatched Rae drizzle ‘s review and she said it was like her prismacolors. Would love your take on them even if I don’t buy them. I got the 120 cezzanne you recommended a while ago.
That happens so much just to ensnare us eh? A couple of weeks ago I found the Kilimanjaro watermark on my Fabriano Artístico cold press paper. Blick's doesn't technically sell Kilimanjaro but Cheap Joe's does and doesn't reveal it's source. Well buying the FA saved me $ and I couldn't resist posting it on Cheap Joe's. It was funny cause someone wrote how much better Kilimanjaro was than Fabriano Artístico. I just laughed. I had both kinds of 16 x 20 in their package of 5. Funny.
Doesn’t the same company that makes Phoenix make Niji? I’ve got the 12 and 24 pan sets of Niji and I like them. That looks like a Niji box except for the logo.
I'm amazed that companies can get away with packaging the same paints with their branding to make us think we're getting something different. Do they think we are stupid? I don't have as much experience as you with watercolours but I could tell right away that the very cheap watercolours I bought from Create and Craft UK a while back as I was curious about them were not great quality. I did a bit of digging and managed to find the same paints under a different brand complete with a swatch that mine does not have. They have the Rare Earth brand name and have three different shades of green that I was not able to tell apart until I did my own swatch. I also took them out of the palette as it's quite heavy.
yeah, it is essentially the same thing. It costs a lot of money to R&D a product and many companies just want something quick to catch a trend, especially in the craft market. Craft companies are not in art supplies for the long haul, they are more focused in trends.
There are now 2 different tube watercolor sets from Phoenix on Amazon. One is very similar to this set in colors, "Artist Grade" 24 8 ml tubes for $16.50 and another set of 24 tubes 12 ml for "Kids, Students, Beginners and Artists" for $14.85. Which set of tubes did you test that you were not fond of? I'd like to get some tubes and was thinking of the Phoenix 24 8 ml ones.
@@thefrugalcrafterYes, that is the cheaper one. It seems like the other tube s may be comparable to these pans. I actually want to get both...because I love the tin!! LOL Thank you so much for your quick reply. www.amazon.com/dp/B088NN41ZG/?coliid=IRPKTTPH8CDCG&colid=2458OE268XEHT&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
@@thefrugalcrafter They seem to be! The labels and packaging are identical except the language which I cannot read ... I am a graphic designer, so I think I would recognize the design work
Hi have a question on the video. I see you are reviewing Phoenix paint in a box and comparing to Cotman.At the 17:23 mark you mentioned buying Phoenix paint at Job Lot that you thought was junk. Could you advise me what the was the difference between this Phoenix paint in the video and the Phoenix paint from Job Lot. I have also bought a set of Phoenix tube paint from Job lot and wonder if it is the same as what you bought and if I should keep using it or invest in something better. I am on a budget. Any advice would be appreciated. I appreciate how informative your video is
The tubes are streaky and chalky when dry. They are not like cotman. These half pands are just like cotman half pans. They also have round cakes that are better than the tubes.
@@thefrugalcrafter Thank you for getting back to me. So it sounds like in general you prefer the pans to tube paint no matter the brand? As I said I did buy tube paint and wonder if that is why my results look so different from others that have I been following at online
@@maryanndunn5478 not necessarily, I think Cotman tubes and pans are equivalent in quality. I love many tube only brands like M Graham and Davinci and most professional brands have the same quality in tubes in pans. I prefer to work from dry watercolor so I squeeze tube watercolor into a pan or palette and let them dry before using. The quality of the paint can be good or bad in tube or pan. Pheonix makes a lot of different qualities of paint under their own brand and others. I did not care for their tube paints, they seemed to have a lot of filler, didn't flow well, and dried dull. Their pans are a different formula and much better. I know it's confusing. I was very hopeful when I saw their tubes at Ocean State Job Lot but sadly they didn't perform well for me. If they work for you that's awesome!
@@thefrugalcrafter Thank you so Lindsay for all your information. I do agree with you regarding the tubes I got at Job Lot. I have not been happy with them. I got them when I first started painting not sure if I was going to continue, but I am really enjoying it and all the great TH-cam channels I am finding. So I want to get better paint. I am going to follow your advise and try a Cotman or even the Phoenix pan set you show in the video. I have subscribed to your channel. I see you have different crafting information.
Lindsay just out of curiosity when you got the Phoenix tubes did they not say artist watercolors? I know amazon has 2 sets of 24 watercolor tubes & I got the ones that say artist for $16.50 they arrived the other day & I think they are so pretty. They have the same pigment info as the half pans so I am guessing they are also very similar to Winsor & Newton cotman tubes. Now I want the 48 half pan set haha.
They said artist watercolors and they had pigment info but they were streaky and chalky. They were only $10, maybe they have z better range tho. I'm glad you got a good one:)
@@thefrugalcrafter me too & I never would have thought to look at this brand if not for your review of the pans. You were also the reason I bought pretty excellent & the meeden 42 fan palette lol. I don't comment a ton but I watch and click like on all your videos & I really appreciate all the effort you put into them.
Thanks for the review it definitely seems like a dupe! I would say that I like my pretty excellent set more than my cotman set. Also just wanted to say that I’m so used to your voice I can not seem to watch any other youtuber reviews because I cringe at their voice 😂 and then I put one of your reviews on and immediately feel better.
I've heard the Cotman line is manufactured in China. And if the Phoenix brand is also made in China, maybe thats why they share some similarities? Edit: ah you mentioned it haha 👍 you also mentioned sir Allan Jay ^^ i also watch his videos and support his channel as a fellow Filipino artist💕
Hello i love your crafts and at least you have a normal voice to listen to some i watch are to fake or they over do there voices when they try and talk on the youtube channel!
I have been very naughty....I have splurged on Schmincke AND st Petersburg White nights😂😂😂 it will be Ramen noodles till 2025 now! But who needs food when you have lots of paint?
@@thefrugalcrafter That's good :-) I had visions of you throwing away the paints in disgust! I haven't used any of my watercolours for seven months now. That's the last time we had a class before lockdown. I don't see it opening again any time soon.
@@thefrugalcrafter I was thinking more that yes W&N outsourced their paints to China an then someone maybe "borrowed" their intellectual property...one of the dangers of outsourcing to China. I think you alluded to that possibility later in the video! Oh well.
Yes, your review is important. For beginning artists you grab what you think is the thing you saw artists working with. These are copycat logo/packaging tricks to mimic those of “designer” or traditional art manufacturers like Winsor Newton, Copic, Schmincke - all the companies that one loves as an artist and that are known for their quality. They are undercut these companies, and eventually we will not have these companies. We will not have a choice, just poor quality art materials. Outsourcing everything has resulted in companies folding or suffering globally, and China taking over and giving us poor quality products. Notice most of Amazon’s products are coming from China. You’re pointing out what many people have also witnessed over the years. The US has lost many industries because if this undercutting from China (furniture, porcelain, etc) Everything is made in China and the quality continues to get worse over the years.
But, according to Lindsay, Windsor Newton Cotman verified that they outsourced the manufacturing of the student grade paints to China. If you want to blame anyone, blame Windsor Newton Cotman. They wanted to make more money, got it done on the cheap and are still in business today, outsourcing from China. Lindsay said, be it coincidence or not, after this outsourcing, an abundance of cheaper paint began to hit the market. Perhaps, the Cotman brand started this whole shebang! On another note, yes, there are less than desirable and cheap products being made in China. The airbags in my "American Made Toyota" had to be replaced twice. They were manufactured in China and when they went off, they filled the occupants with plastic shrapnel. It took two replacements to finally get the problem corrected. It's definitely the "quality of the products" that needs monitoring. Remember when Lumber Liquidators sold flooring, produced in China, that had 80% more formaldehyde than the legal health limit allowed? Scary stuff!!! However, outsourcing parts can help factories stay open. It really is difficult to find one product that doesn't have at least one component outsourced within it. A company, near where I live, made (expensive) team jackets, stating 100% made in America but the cloth and zippers came from China so even labeling can be deceiving - should have said "assembled". All people can do is research the products before buying and hope for the best. That's why Lindsay is such a gem! She does the research of many products for us!
@@cassiescreations9828 I agree, Lindsay is a gem for her research. She found also that there was no information on the Chinese products. I agree, why do we not have that information? If all these companies across the globe continue to outsource to China, everyone will be dependent on them in the future (if we aren’t already). I’d rather by Cotman and still hope that W&N retain the quality of its other products. Yes, they, and everyone other business needs to stop outsourcing their products to China and bring production back to more reliable places. China isn’t the only country in Asia, and Asia isn’t the only country who would be interested in producing products. But at this point China has shown itself to be producing many many things of poor quality and then raising prices when it consumes the older ones that did produce things well. Yes, Windsor and Newton needs to stop outsourcing to China as do many other wonderful quality companies, or they’ll go the way of the dinosaurs and so will all our art work because it won’t last.
Hmmm...just got the W/N series 7 brush set (in tubes not box!) and these too look like they were made in China. :( why am I spending money on a W/N best watercolor brush in the world if it’s not made in the UK from W/N. Honestly, I don’t know what I’m actually buying anymore. Got the same thing from Pottery Barn furniture. Plastic! Not wood. No quality. Ugggh
It's complex. Just about everything is, at least, partly made elsewhere because to make certain parts "in your country" is either way too expensive or simply not feasible. For example, how much would it cost to build another building that creates the brush or just the handle for the brush? How much will it cost in labor in the UK compared to China? How much are the permits, the taxes, the labor to build a building where the handles are to be made? Is there even room for this building on the property? Is it cheaper to outsource this part OR is it cheaper to outsource the making of the entire brush??? Sometimes it is the expense of paying wages that eat into the profits of a business OR ... is outsourcing the only way Windsor/Newton can afford to remain in business at all and they really aren't that profitable? It's a big question and it's generally much cheaper to allow China to make the entire brush since they do it for pennies on the dollar. However, this does NOT mean that the quality of the brush is affected. Windsor and Newton probably has excellent quality control, in order to keep their good name! Furniture is another thing altogether. If you want real wood you will pay a high price for it because we must cut down mature trees. We must plant more trees for the future builds. So why not buy hard sturdy plastic furniture, made from recycled waste, rather than chop down trees? Furniture is actually made to be disposable nowadays. We must buy more furniture, sooner than later. However, this keeps those furniture making companies in business. Those businesses keep people employed. Those people get to buy food with money earned. Farmers stay in business, supplying food to workers. Truckers stay in business hauling food. Etc. Etc. The only thing that will change any of this cyclic motion is 1)consumers stop buying products or 2)China pays much better wages to their workforce, therefore, costing businesses that outsource their products to China, too much money. It much cost so much money that they turn back to their home country for production OR they shut down. Can they afford to pay UK's wages and stay open? Maybe not, it depends on if they want to get rich or if they will be satisfied to simply make a good living or if they can afford the wages to begin with - it depends on the company. No doubt, people will lose their jobs when companies change or close up and closures affect the health of the economy. The biggest question we can ask ourselves is, "Are workers willing to make less money to produce products in our home country, if that is what it takes to bring businesses back to operating in our country? Not many are because they barely survive now. The "cost of living" must go down, as well and that's a million other problems to contend with. There are no easy solutions! It's "world economics".
Hi Lindsay! I saw that you have reviewed a different version of the Phoenix watercolors here! th-cam.com/video/E21WF_vFUa4/w-d-xo.html&feature=emb_title I wonder if this newer version is an improved version or is it the same? Also, is it really "artist grade"? Thanks for this video review, great review as always!
I'd say no, but for the price they are not a terrible deal. They still make the round pan "cake" set for many other companies. They are good for the price but more like a student tempera cake.
For anyone scrolling through the comments going through a really hard time I truly hope things get better for you no matter who you are. Please don't give up trying. There is a reason you are here reading this message, to remind you that YOU are so important to God and His Son Jesus Christ. I can only imagine what you are going through but God knows. I also know how difficult life can be and I may not understand your exact experience but I am truly sorry that things have been so tough for you. I care and want you to know that you are not alone, you have a purpose, you are worthy of so much. Please take it one day at a time, one step at a time. I am praying that God will send His angels to each and everyone of you to comfort you, surround you with His love, give you peace beyond measure, and to change things for the better. Please know that you are here for a reason and that sometimes we don't always know why we go through things, maybe to help someone else going through the same thing because you understand such pain that someone else may not. Please also know you also have a Savior Jesus Christ who died for you, He loves you more than you could ever know. Please ask Him for forgiveness of wrongs and ask Him into your heart believing with sincerity. He can guide you in all things. I speak from experience it doesn't matter what we have done or that we think we don't measure up He will meet us where we are, even in our lowest low. He can give you peace beyond measure, I speak from experience. I can only imagine how hard it has been for you but I truly hope the best is yet to come for all of you. Please never give up, because He won't give up on us. Please remember this when things are hard and you feel at the end of your rope...........
I love it when you go down the rabbit hole of art manufactures. I am always surprised (though I shouldn’t be) how many products are the same and made by same companies but just rebranded. I wonder how many duplicate products I would have bought if it wasn’t for your hard work and research. Thank you Lindsay.
Lindsay Weirich: Watercolor Private Investigator 🕵️♀️
Honestly my immediate thought upon seeing the packaging was "that looks like Winsor & Newton", you're definitely not alone in that!
Well, that was really interesting! I have a 24 set of Cotman that I bought a couple of years ago. I just compared them side by side and you are so RIGHT! They are virtually the same. I need to stop buying these dang cute tins. I'm sure I have enough watercolor to last me for at least the next 10 years!
Fascinating!
Thanks for sharing this Lindsay and for the mention. 😉🎨🙏
Any time!
Lindsay, you are my only source for All Things Watercolour! I do not purchase any paints without looking for one of your vids first (I just bought Jane Davenport's Brights set - LOVE them) I am new to watercolour this year and I am thoroughly enjoying it. I bought the Pretty Excellent paints when I saw your vid and I absolutely love them! I thank you very much for doing so much research on all of these wonderful tools. We are fortunate that there are so many reasonably priced offerings out there! Especially for a newbie like me 😊 I appreciate you! Blessings, my dear xo
I love the Jane Davenport paints. I wound up buying all of them over a period of a year. I must be mad. LOL!
@@craftergin Then I'm mad too, Gin! Don't we ALL have ALL of the paint brands?
Yes!! Wish I’d found her before buying Arteza watercolor pens. Now using the colorit and loving them.
@@txna58 I have Colore, $20 at Amazon. Fabulous!!!
Thank you for this great information. I began pursuing art as a beginner 2 or 3 years ago, with a Craftsy class called Startup Watercolor. I heard somewhere that it’s really better to get better quality paints (and paper) while learning, so you experience this medium at its best and avoid frustration. That is why I got W&N artist grade and avoided the Cotman.
The disturbing thing is not that a company decided to save money by having things made in China, but that Chinese factories took the proprietary info and made their own knockoffs of the better brand. Another comment mentioned the possible future of scarcity of decent quality paints (and insert here any product you want). I hope people will buy the “real” thing and avoid the knockoffs so the companies we know and love will survive better.
I agree. Just saw a review of Amazon branded stuff that is knockoffs of name brand colored pencils and things. I'd rather get the real thing. The danger of outsourcing everything to China or to a monopoly like Amazon, is that they get all the business, put the original company out of business, then they change the formula or raise the prices and we can't find the real thing anymore.
Like Amazon can afford to lose money on a product to gain market share, and then buy out the original company. I didn't like seeing all the bookstores in my city close because of amazon, little quaint mom and pop shops going out of business because of places like Walmart. i really prefer the quality and hominess and warmth of the little shops. I care about how employees are treated, where products are sourced, if people are paid enough, and I care about history. If there is a long history of generations of people keeping and refining a brand, and then someone makes a knock off and destroys the first company, that's a tragedy we should attempt to avoid. At least that's what I believe.
I used to collect dolls, and there was a company that made fashion doll sized kitchen items and food and dishes. A refrigerator, with water dispenser and ice maker (plastic ice cubes), open the door and it lights up. Stove/oven, and a big kitchen counter with working sink and cabinets. So much better than the pink plastic barbie stuff. Well they bought out the good company and now you can't find high quality mini food stuff anymore.
Meh. The country has been raped for western use plenty. It’s fine.
@@recoveringsoul755 This is an old comment but I wanted to add the other danger of buying off Amazon is that their warehouses now store a lot of goods sold by individual sellers (at least in the US.) If that seller is selling knock-offs or rip-offs or otherwise compromised items with the exact same packaging, but it all goes into the same stock pile with the real stuff/unbroken stuff, then even if you buy from Amazon directly, they might send you a knock-off or a pilfered set (like the seller took a few things out and resold it.) People should try not to buy from Amazon if they have other viable options but bare minimum don't buy anything with multiple sellers. And unless it's a single company you trust who is selling their own products, and no one else is, you're better off buying an item that only Amazon is selling; otherwise you could be gambling over the quality (well, you still might, but the odds get worse.) Plus in general Amazon is just getting flooded with cheap junk which makes it harder to find the good products (including the better quality stuff from China) but Amazon doesn't care, they're obviously happy to have as many items as possible. (I mean yeah they have some control, they can remove items if enough people complain about what they were sold, but there's just so much being sold there now and even the most popular stuff becomes suspect.) Amazon has so much stuff they reuse pages for some items so the good reviews might not even be for the same dang item!
And on top of everything else, there are a bunch of online stores. I know it's less convenient to buy from multiple locations even online because of the different rates of free shipping and sometimes you just can't find everything in one store that you really want but if the store has improved quality-of-life web design features, only sells reputable products, keeps your info safe, and is reasonably comparable to Amazon pricing, you're better off buying from them when you can! Buying everything from the mega-stores, like Amazon, won't necessarily kill off all smaller retailers online but it certainly doesn't help. It's been happening for years and their tactics are the same no matter who their competition is. If Amazon had their way, they'd be the only storefront anywhere. They've intentionally destroyed other online storefronts when they weren't able to outright buy before, by dumping their own prices until the other website went under. (I don't remember the example I'm thinking of but they sold diapers and plausibly other baby necessities.) Amazon wants to be a monopoly and they'll do anything to accomplish that goal. 😟
@@DoveJS Oh I agree. I avoid Amazon as much as I can. Didn't even have an account. But I recently ordered a phone to deliver to my door, but I'm in an apartment so they built some kind of centralized package center. So in order to open the compartment with my package, I HAVE to have an amazon account even though I didn't order from them. AND my landlord sends me an email to let me know that I have received a package. I wonder why my landlord and amazon are involved in a transaction that has nothing to do with either of them. How much info are they collecting? Do they know what I ordered? So amazon can put that company out of business too? IF I still lived in a house the pkg would come to my door and I wouldn't have to deal with that nonsense
I also refuse to bundle my phone, landline internet and cable connection with one company. I don't want one company controlling ALL my ability to communicate. If their service goes down, or I'm late on my bill, I can't contact anyone to fix it. Bad idea.
@@recoveringsoul755 Oh yeah! lol Sorry I meant this as the general you, and not you specifically. You're blameless.
I've had an Amazon account for years but over the past decade I've been trying not to buy anything except maybe once or twice a year when it was my only option. This year I bought a beautiful giant frog plush which I think might've been discontinued, it was strongly discounted and not featured on the manufacturer's website anymore. I had trouble finding an alternative so I eventually sucked it up and bought it from Amazon. Not something I needed but cuddling it has made me happy and reduced some of my bedtime anxiety.
No regrets about that purchase but I was stupid and got Prime for several months because Amazon partnered with/owns a website called Zappos and Prime also includes free, easy returns within a full year for that website. I have trouble with confrontation and extremely wide feet so normal shoes aren't an option for me, even regular wides aren't big enough (my feet are short but wiiiide) so stupid me paid them triple via the subscription for two Zappos orders that I did like 8 months apart and only one return. I finally cancelled it, took my lumps with the last pair of shoes which don't quite fit but sort of works (they're double or triple wide), and I'm still mad at myself for paying Amazon for this long (especially since I barely got any benefit; shooting myself in my extra wide feet twice over lol.) I'm definitely part of the problem but having studied a lot of stuff on their website and noticing the most recent trends over the past five years (like not even on purpose, mostly just window-shopping so to speak), I wanted to share some of my observations after reading your comment.
Oh! And disturbingly enough, when I made the first order and Zappos called to verify my prime status (I subscribed like right before) I mentioned how they didn't ask for the secret code on the back of my credit card and the nice lady mentioned how they didn't require it like... I'm sorry WTF??? I need to check if there are other options besides Zappos but really I just wish normal shoe stores sold stuff in my size. I hate trying things on but it's super anxiety inducing this way too and so so disappointing when something should fit but doesn't and while the effort isn't hard I still have to go through the motions to return the darn things. Some days I wish I could cut them off and get leg prosthetics but then my luck they'd still need shoes lol. (At least hopefully then in a normal, cheap shoe size where comfort won't matter either.)
Also! That's really awkward about your current apartment and landlord situation! Super weird when you didn't order from Amazon. Definitely disturbing even if they're not being actively malicious. Edit: I bet Amazon bought some kind of "distribution" service for the purpose of apartments having package lockers so the employees don't have to hold onto anything and the apartments can't be held liable. Theoretically secure but stupid and yes suspicious to make you have an Amazon account just to access it. I hate that.
Another good point there too: some people might have to get the entire service bundle, if their location doesn't offer any other options (although phone service is usually more variable) but I agree, you don't want all of your communication options nestled into one basket. 😅
I got this set over Cotman cos it had extra colors lol, I rly like these paints! Super happy with my purchase, ty so much for all ur hardwork wrt all this research.
I bought the Cotman today through your link of products. Finally decided it was time to upgrade. I’m still a newbie, but I’m loving watercolors. Maybe more than acrylic.
Thank you for your honest and thorough reviews.
Great detective work! I love your reviews and will gladly follow you into the tall weeds!!!
I'm glad you followed that hunch! It's always interesting to see that sort of deductive process for me. Also I am glad to know how similar they are since I did not like my cotmans XD
Lol, and I might have splurged for the big set if I knew they were the same lol! (I got the full set syndrome problem)
Hello, we are phoneix art supplies. Thanks for sharing your reviews about our watercolors.
My pleasure!
Hi Lindsey, I am writing to tell you how much I have loved all your tutorials and paint a longs. I have Fibromyalgae and Sjogrens
Syndrome, osteoarthritis, and a whole host of other problem that I am sure you really don't need to hear. I just wanted to tell you how much you uplifted me thru art and card marking. Happy Holidays to you and family, and many more classes and card making. Thank you so much. Jo Ellzey in Louisiana. The storm zeta came through here yesterday and last night and a cold front came after midnight shoving the Hurricane away and giving us beautiful weather today. Needless to say it turned my body into a very painful awaking this morning. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all🇺🇸🖌✝🎊☺️
Your reviews are so thorough and informative. You are awesome and I really enjoy your videos. 👍
I love your honesty! It's so helpful when we are learning! Thanks for another thorough review!
I just finished using Crayola markers as watercolors and I saw you posted a new review. This is very interesting that they are very similar to Cotman. I don't have any Winsor & Newton but I might have to check these out.
I love doing that. So many cool colors, and the black extends into purple and brown so interestingly
Thank you for always doing such in-depth reviews to help us!
I always love your reviews. I bought a set of Crayola metallic and glitter gel pens last year. I have no problems with them at all. They write well, and all a wonderful shimmer and sparkle to my cards. Just in case you were interested. Thanks for all your hard work.
In the beginning of your video, I thought that emblem looked so familiar, I pulled out a tube of Winsor & Newton to compare. I have to agree with you on everything.
Your knowledge of pigments blows my mind. Where does one learn that information?
Get books from your library. I have been trying to learn about pigments and there is so much information out there.
The handprint website is also great
Also check out on TH-cam: In Liquid Color, and Dr Oto Kano.
And Jane blundells website.
Thanks, everyone. I have my associates degree in fine arts and in all the art classes I took, no one ever discussed or taught us about the pigments. Just very basic color theory. 😕 None of the books went into them either.
His page is Watercolors by Allan Jay Quesada 😁😁😁
Pretty comprehensive review Lindsey!
This is why I respect your reviews!
Awesome presentation Lindsay.Thank you for sharing.I have painted with cotman,love tem.🌹 "A rose is not a rose till it's painted."-Lynn
This is incredibly interesting!!! I will be rewatching this over and over !!! Wow , my mind is BLOWN !
Great review! Thank you so much for all your research and work you put into this. It’s so helpful. When ever I am thinking about investing in an art supply that I don’t have experience working with I always look to see if you have done a review on that product and watch the review along with all the videos that I can find that you’ve used the product/brand I’m considering.
I have a Phoenix Tube Watercolor. It's a gift from my sister. I thought it was cheap so I was not using but it's nice to know it's seem like W&N. I will swatch and compare them. Thanks.
I think they have 2 grades of tubes. I tried the ones they sold in a set at ocean state job lot but didn't like it but they might have a better line as well. I hope you like tjem
Happy Monday! Thanks for the review.👍🙂
Great review, Lindsay! As always, your knowledge is impressive and so helpful! Thanks!
last year, in Nov 2019 I checked at Costco for art stuff, since they have things for the holidays. Sometimes they have name brand stuff under another name. They had several art kits that I wanted, Drawing, calligraphy and Watercolor, but I only got the Watercolor one. But it is my 1st one so I have nothing to compare it to. It was about $17 and had 10 tubes of 5 ml colors, 1 tube of white Gouache, 12 watercolor pencils, 2 drawing pencils and a pencil sharpener, 3 cheap brushes, some paper, a instruction book, a little plastic 6 well pallete. There wasn't any pigment info. I think I've only swatched them. The tubes are harder to deal with than pans.
I am so glad that you reviewed these paints before I could purchase them lol, especially since I already have a set of winsor and newton cotmans. I wonder if the phoenix brand might eventually bring this set into craft stores . It would be a nice way to get a nice tin at a cheap price (plus the paints for practice).
Lindsay, this is so interesting! I got the set of 48 last week. I am a vine voice on amazon so I've been working up an extremely thorough review. As part of that review I compared some of their color choices, and I happened to do a paint out of their mauve compared to Cotman mauve. They do contain the same pigments but the hue is VERY different and the Phoenix is far more pigmented. The oddest choice in the set of 48 are 3 pans with fugitive pigments: PY1 and PR3. I will not use them (the fugitive colors). Overall I think these are pretty good paints for people who want to know their pigment numbers but not have the money in their budget for top of the line brands. I would have loved these when I was starting out. EDITED TO ADD: The only cotman I own is mauve to compare them. I wish I could post a pic!
that's intersting, did you swatch mauve from the tube or pan and how old was the mauve you own? I think my late 90s Cotman (back when they used real cadmiums and cobalt and had different series (and prices) on the colors) were better than the modern versions.
@@thefrugalcrafter The swatching was done with dried paint in a pan. The Cotman mauve I have was purchased about 2 years ago, I believe. So it's not very old. I still think there is credence to your assumptions. They may have slightly changed the formula for their own set. At any rate, I hope to post my review in the next few days and I'll leave a link to it here in case you wanted to see that comparison.
@@jenthulhu if you get a chance and you still have the tube try swatching it fresh from the tube vs the pan of pheonix. I know windor and newton says their pan and tube formulations are different. I have not used any cotman Rubens since they started manufacturing in china. The oan to pan comparison was uncanny.
@@thefrugalcrafter I certainly can, but this was dried tube color in a pan. I just realized I misunderstood what you were asking before. My apologies. :D I do not have any cotman watercolor purchased in a pan.
Thanks Lindsay. Oh man! I really miss Ocean State Job Lot. We had them in Connecticut too. Here in Northwest Pennsylvania it's a wasteland. Even our dollar tree is small and limited. 🙄💜
Another very interesting comparisson.Thank you
I love all the information. Your fabulous! 🥰
I always find your reviews informative! You're a great teacher!
As beginner dropped $200 on watercolors at local craft store. Month later realized could have bought top quality and skipped all the frustration of poor quality. I much rather pay for non outsourced integrity. Lesson learned. Reviews are helpful for the crash course.
I dropped $20 on an artminds(?) brand wheel watercolors set at the local independent art store. Later realized the real Koh-I-Noor wheel was cheaper than that on Amazon. Also, individual water soluble wax pastels/crayons at $2 each on “clearance” -regret city man. That was at a time I could I’ll afford the rip-off.
Great analysis, as always, Detective Lindsay!
It is so funny to me because the second you start a review I can tell by your tone how you feel 😂 Have I been around too long? Lol
You detective you! I love this kind of stuff. I read years ago about how this is why there are so many counterfeit products on the market now, for instance, counterfeit high end The North Face clothing. When the company rep goes home for the night, they keep the factory going, using the same pattern but cheaper fabric. They of course have plenty of genuine North Face tags there that they just put on the goods. Come morning, back to genuine!
Oh wow!
Thank you for going down the rabbit hole so I don't have to. On a side note I am a new watercolor painter. I bought the Cotman 12 set to start like you recommend. I love them. I later bought the Paul Ruebens set and actually do not like them as well. I just recently bought the Vivio? set that was a crowd funded item for Inktober, but have not used them yet. I think in the future I will buy dot cards to see what paints I like. Then I'm not out a lot of money. Thanks for all the work you do on these videos and for sharing your extensive knowledge with us. It helps a great deal!
Very interesting. I just was prepping my Phoenix 48 Studio Set earlier today. It took me 40 minutes (while watching one of your other videos) just to get the wrappers off and pry those pans out of the tin. Only later tonight when trying to reinsert one pan that had fallen and gone AWOL for a few hours did I realize how to loosen the rows with pans in them. 40 Minutes is frustrating and now that I threw out all the labels as I had to cut them off, I hear I could have taped them on to the swatch page when I do it. At least I still have the pans in the order of the color card that came with them which I pulled out, with a magnifying glass, to follow what you were saying, I noticed that the Burnt Sienna, Light red and Indian Red all had the same pigment PR 101 which is also used as one of the pigments in two other colors. Kind of weird to me, but I am new on this trip of watercoloring. I am so glad to listen to the reviews you have done for the paints I need to review as well as I learn a lot each time. I love to learn new things. I was one of those kids that couldn't admit that I liked school as then I would be taken for a nerd/geek. I love to read and learn new things. Thank you for the time that you take to do these videos.
Many paints use the same pigment. You get a different color if you grind it finer or heat it.
I haven't seen these but just got the 18 Royal Langnikle fan palette. Walmart is carrying it for ten dollars and of course a decent waterbrush is included. A great deal, and only one complaint and that is no true ultramarine blue. There's an orange I think might have been sacrificed for it. I do have Cotman Ultra so I can put a blurb of it in the mixing fold out. Have you seen them, I know you enjoyed the superior or meeden. They are virtually the same and I love them. Thanks for the review of these, always fun to see new paint boxes come out.
I haven't personally but I think they are the same. I do work for R&L frequently and they work with companies to make their media.
Great review Lindsay, thank you!
Wonderful video! Thanks for sharing the knowledge that you found out!!!! Thank you!
Thanks, Lindsay! Yeah, I recognized that symbol right away too as being similar to W&N. ;-)
I had a look in my swatch binder which goes back years, I have only one paint made from PR3 swatched and it's a discontinued Blockx colour, pre 2000 I think. The brilliant red in the Chinese W&N set is PR 112 and the vermilion is pr112 and py83.
It’s so tempting because of the pretty blue tin but I’m only a beginner and I envy of artist grade from Renesans to DS to Da Vinci to Sennelier so why do I need Cotman quality ( I do have a set of 14 Cotman). But I’m always interested in this kind of video and how it seems that they are the same or very similar paints as Cotman.
I bought a Cotman tube set and a Diox Violet, Permanent Rose. IM SO SURPRISED THAT I LOVE THEM!
Their mauve is gorgeous!
@@thefrugalcrafter Mauve is the only color I own in that line! It's gorgeous!
I have no need for more Cotman level paints, but that tin is so pretty and unique.
It also thought so initially Lindsay, their branding is so close to W&N. Tfs!
Great, thorough review, as always! I'm not buying any paints right now, but for US $40 I'd personally rather get a 24 set of White Nights pans (I'd actually recommend picking your own set open stock rather than most of their premade sets, but still). You get a ton of paint, more colors, but still a really good quality. You don't get the pretty shimmery blue tin though, to be fair 😅
Honestly, I've not yet come across a better deal than Pretty Excellent - they're just really great paints for the price, and I always compare new-to-me non-artist grade paints to them and find that, for me, they're still the best. And I really do love the tin - I've moved the paints from the plastic insert to half pans in another container, and use the original container for a set of 35 White Nights pans. Super compact and great!
Good friend is talking about differences colors o paintings
Mmmm graet .👌
The space between water and colours is buggin' me!😂
I've tried out one tube of cotman and here in India it's kinda expensive. They compare quite similar to the Indian brand Camlin Watercolors.
Have you ever come across camlin artist Watercolors btw? I'd love to see you review it. :)
Haven't seen Lindsey do one, bit I still got some videos to watch ^^'. Allan Jay whom she just referenced here did one, if I remember right he has one swatch sheet for the Camlin's. He always does a comparison section in the end of his review videos :)
I haven't seen thin in out art suppliers in America or Amazon.
@@thefrugalcrafter It's not on the German Amazon, either. Their probably not selling them outside of Asia as a whole, are they? I mean, I wouldn't be too awfully surprised if they didn't. The Amazon stocks often do differ drastically between countries. I usually can't even find most of the cheaper colours you're reviewing on the German Amazon - nor can I buy mp3 albums which I would have no trouble finding on the US one, come to think of it 🤔
@Omkar You mean these here, don't you? Find the link for Allan Jay's review below :3 th-cam.com/video/BUocR3W6WYc/w-d-xo.html
Oh, now that I actually watch that vid, there IS an Amazon.com link in the description, too :)
If one isn't going to use Daniel Smith or M. Graham, I'd say go for White Night's. No need to go below that and they are cheap when you consider the per oz cost.
I do want a set of White Nights! Turner watercolor tubes are also great, for about $5/tube, much less in the sets. I've splurged on some tubes of Daniel Smith.....I figure I can save money, overall, by using Turner (and white nights, van gogh), mainly, but treating myself to DS specialty colors now and then.
Turner and white knights are wonderful choices!
@@thefrugalcrafter I keep thinking White Knights too but it's actually White Nights:)
Renessans is *fantastic* paint for cheap prices
I have a set of winsor and newton "london" watercolor tubes from the 70s. Apparently they are what eventually became the cotman line. They're pretty good quality but don't rewet very well. The vintage set of grumbacher finest watercolors I have are way better, so are my vintage set of permalba and liquitex watercolors
Thanks for the review! I was wondering if you could do a review of Marie watercolors. I havent seen many of them but I'm very curious
I'm not a fan of Marie paints. That said I had the chinese painting set as a child and it was great. They still make that I think but uh is quite a bit more expensive than the american market sets which I dont recommend. They smell awful, shrink and crack and fall out of a palette when dry and are kinda streaky in application. I bought a set a few years ago and ended up donating it.
Thank you so much for replying! I cant think of a better person to ask about watercolors you are like a living encyclopedia for them lol. I appreciate all that you share about them all of us painters can make more informed purchases. I've learned more from watching you than literally anyone or anything else out there. So honestly thank you for all you do and take care!
This is what I needed, thank you.
W&N was my first thought, too.
What? wow, They are so same. Thank you for the info.
Very interesting! Thanks for your research
It's like the Magi wap paints VS the Pro-art it's exactly the same but the packaging is different but everything is the same. Who knew right. 😱
Thanx for your reviews
Very informative! Thank you 😊 i wonder which one will you choose between paul rubens 24 and this phoenix? New subs here
Paul rubens for sure
I also thought that it looked like W&N stuff too. Have you seen the Amazon basics color pencils? Thanks for your great reviews and due diligence research on the companies.
I've seen them.but haven't used them
@@thefrugalcrafter Iwatched Rae drizzle ‘s review and she said it was like her prismacolors. Would love your take on them even if I don’t buy them. I got the 120 cezzanne you recommended a while ago.
nailed that one Lindsay , pritty much clones of each other..... thanks
At the lower left side of the box there's a qr code. Scan it and you might find additional information.
It leads to a page that is all in Chinese with no translation available that I could find. (I have the 48 set.)
If they are cotman then they should be thirsty paints. Because I remember that from a cotman set I borrowed from a friend to try out.
That happens so much just to ensnare us eh? A couple of weeks ago I found the Kilimanjaro watermark on my Fabriano Artístico cold press paper. Blick's doesn't technically sell Kilimanjaro but Cheap Joe's does and doesn't reveal it's source. Well buying the FA saved me $ and I couldn't resist posting it on Cheap Joe's. It was funny cause someone wrote how much better Kilimanjaro was than Fabriano Artístico. I just laughed. I had both kinds of 16 x 20 in their package of 5. Funny.
That's intersting! Someone made a mistake at the factory lol!
Doesn’t the same company that makes Phoenix make Niji? I’ve got the 12 and 24 pan sets of Niji and I like them. That looks like a Niji box except for the logo.
I think so among others.
I'm amazed that companies can get away with packaging the same paints with their branding to make us think we're getting something different. Do they think we are stupid?
I don't have as much experience as you with watercolours but I could tell right away that the very cheap watercolours I bought from Create and Craft UK a while back as I was curious about them were not great quality. I did a bit of digging and managed to find the same paints under a different brand complete with a swatch that mine does not have.
They have the Rare Earth brand name and have three different shades of green that I was not able to tell apart until I did my own swatch. I also took them out of the palette as it's quite heavy.
I don't think it's much different than name-brand grocery products also selling under a store-brand name.
yeah, it is essentially the same thing. It costs a lot of money to R&D a product and many companies just want something quick to catch a trend, especially in the craft market. Craft companies are not in art supplies for the long haul, they are more focused in trends.
There are now 2 different tube watercolor sets from Phoenix on Amazon. One is very similar to this set in colors, "Artist Grade" 24 8 ml tubes for $16.50 and another set of 24 tubes 12 ml for "Kids, Students, Beginners and Artists" for $14.85. Which set of tubes did you test that you were not fond of? I'd like to get some tubes and was thinking of the Phoenix 24 8 ml ones.
This is the set I tried and sis not like: amzn.to/3aAXRpO
@@thefrugalcrafterYes, that is the cheaper one. It seems like the other tube s may be comparable to these pans. I actually want to get both...because I love the tin!! LOL Thank you so much for your quick reply. www.amazon.com/dp/B088NN41ZG/?coliid=IRPKTTPH8CDCG&colid=2458OE268XEHT&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
Let me know if they are good
I bought WN professional 24 tubes watercolors with a Korean label from Korea - no english at all - on ebay for $18 including shipping
wow, were they the real deal?
@@thefrugalcrafter They seem to be! The labels and packaging are identical except the language which I cannot read ... I am a graphic designer, so I think I would recognize the design work
Hi have a question on the video. I see you are reviewing Phoenix paint in a box and comparing to Cotman.At the 17:23 mark you mentioned buying Phoenix paint at Job Lot that you thought was junk. Could you advise me what the was the difference between this Phoenix paint in the video and the Phoenix paint from Job Lot. I have also bought a set of Phoenix tube paint from Job lot and wonder if it is the same as what you bought and if I should keep using it or invest in something better. I am on a budget. Any advice would be appreciated. I appreciate how informative your video is
The tubes are streaky and chalky when dry. They are not like cotman. These half pands are just like cotman half pans. They also have round cakes that are better than the tubes.
@@thefrugalcrafter Thank you for getting back to me. So it sounds like in general you prefer the pans to tube paint no matter the brand? As I said I did buy tube paint and wonder if that is why my results look so different from others that have I been following at online
@@maryanndunn5478 not necessarily, I think Cotman tubes and pans are equivalent in quality. I love many tube only brands like M Graham and Davinci and most professional brands have the same quality in tubes in pans. I prefer to work from dry watercolor so I squeeze tube watercolor into a pan or palette and let them dry before using. The quality of the paint can be good or bad in tube or pan. Pheonix makes a lot of different qualities of paint under their own brand and others. I did not care for their tube paints, they seemed to have a lot of filler, didn't flow well, and dried dull. Their pans are a different formula and much better. I know it's confusing. I was very hopeful when I saw their tubes at Ocean State Job Lot but sadly they didn't perform well for me. If they work for you that's awesome!
@@thefrugalcrafter Thank you so Lindsay for all your information. I do agree with you regarding the tubes I got at Job Lot. I have not been happy with them. I got them when I first started painting not sure if I was going to continue, but I am really enjoying it and all the great TH-cam channels I am finding. So I want to get better paint. I am going to follow your advise and try a Cotman or even the Phoenix pan set you show in the video. I have subscribed to your channel. I see you have different crafting information.
do you think phoenix or white nights is better? I'm confused..
White nights us better
OMG how I miss OSJL!!! Zero stores in Colorado!
Your videos are awesome
Lindsay just out of curiosity when you got the Phoenix tubes did they not say artist watercolors? I know amazon has 2 sets of 24 watercolor tubes & I got the ones that say artist for $16.50 they arrived the other day & I think they are so pretty. They have the same pigment info as the half pans so I am guessing they are also very similar to Winsor & Newton cotman tubes. Now I want the 48 half pan set haha.
They said artist watercolors and they had pigment info but they were streaky and chalky. They were only $10, maybe they have z better range tho. I'm glad you got a good one:)
@@thefrugalcrafter me too & I never would have thought to look at this brand if not for your review of the pans. You were also the reason I bought pretty excellent & the meeden 42 fan palette lol. I don't comment a ton but I watch and click like on all your videos & I really appreciate all the effort you put into them.
Winsor and Newton are now owned by Colart which is why production moved to France.
Thanks for the review it definitely seems like a dupe! I would say that I like my pretty excellent set more than my cotman set. Also just wanted to say that I’m so used to your voice I can not seem to watch any other youtuber reviews because I cringe at their voice 😂 and then I put one of your reviews on and immediately feel better.
oh no, probably everyone else sounds like they are on slow speed next to my brisk pace LOL!
Very helpful thank you. :)
I've heard the Cotman line is manufactured in China. And if the Phoenix brand is also made in China, maybe thats why they share some similarities?
Edit: ah you mentioned it haha 👍 you also mentioned sir Allan Jay ^^ i also watch his videos and support his channel as a fellow Filipino artist💕
Which do you think are better, the Phoenix or the Rosa?
Rosa for sure
Lindsay thedetectivecrafter 😁
Hello i love your crafts and at least you have a normal voice to listen to some i watch are to fake or they over do there voices when they try and talk on the youtube channel!
The watercolour whisperer.....
I have been very naughty....I have splurged on Schmincke AND st Petersburg White nights😂😂😂 it will be Ramen noodles till 2025 now! But who needs food when you have lots of paint?
Wow Lindsay... there is a limited deal on these today for about $9.00 with a free gift.. yikes... maybe you could let your subscribers know...!!
Thanks for the tip!
Did you throw out the tube paints you didn't like?
No, I returned them.
@@thefrugalcrafter That's good :-) I had visions of you throwing away the paints in disgust! I haven't used any of my watercolours for seven months now. That's the last time we had a class before lockdown. I don't see it opening again any time soon.
It could be an unauthorized copy, too. May not be made by Windsor Newton. It's hard to say.
No, winsor and newton confirmed they started outsourcing their cotman paints to China (I think they might have for the Galeria acrylic line too)
@@thefrugalcrafter I was thinking more that yes W&N outsourced their paints to China an then someone maybe "borrowed" their intellectual property...one of the dangers of outsourcing to China. I think you alluded to that possibility later in the video! Oh well.
Yes, your review is important. For beginning artists you grab what you think is the thing you saw artists working with. These are copycat logo/packaging tricks to mimic those of “designer” or traditional art manufacturers like Winsor Newton, Copic, Schmincke - all the companies that one loves as an artist and that are known for their quality. They are undercut these companies, and eventually we will not have these companies. We will not have a choice, just poor quality art materials. Outsourcing everything has resulted in companies folding or suffering globally, and China taking over and giving us poor quality products. Notice most of Amazon’s products are coming from China. You’re pointing out what many people have also witnessed over the years. The US has lost many industries because if this undercutting from China (furniture, porcelain, etc) Everything is made in China and the quality continues to get worse over the years.
Get the Cotman.
But, according to Lindsay, Windsor Newton Cotman verified that they outsourced the manufacturing of the student grade paints to China. If you want to blame anyone, blame Windsor Newton Cotman. They wanted to make more money, got it done on the cheap and are still in business today, outsourcing from China. Lindsay said, be it coincidence or not, after this outsourcing, an abundance of cheaper paint began to hit the market. Perhaps, the Cotman brand started this whole shebang! On another note, yes, there are less than desirable and cheap products being made in China. The airbags in my "American Made Toyota" had to be replaced twice. They were manufactured in China and when they went off, they filled the occupants with plastic shrapnel. It took two replacements to finally get the problem corrected. It's definitely the "quality of the products" that needs monitoring. Remember when Lumber Liquidators sold flooring, produced in China, that had 80% more formaldehyde than the legal health limit allowed? Scary stuff!!! However, outsourcing parts can help factories stay open. It really is difficult to find one product that doesn't have at least one component outsourced within it. A company, near where I live, made (expensive) team jackets, stating 100% made in America but the cloth and zippers came from China so even labeling can be deceiving - should have said "assembled". All people can do is research the products before buying and hope for the best. That's why Lindsay is such a gem! She does the research of many products for us!
@@cassiescreations9828 I agree, Lindsay is a gem for her research. She found also that there was no information on the Chinese products. I agree, why do we not have that information? If all these companies across the globe continue to outsource to China, everyone will be dependent on them in the future (if we aren’t already). I’d rather by Cotman and still hope that W&N retain the quality of its other products. Yes, they, and everyone other business needs to stop outsourcing their products to China and bring production back to more reliable places. China isn’t the only country in Asia, and Asia isn’t the only country who would be interested in producing products. But at this point China has shown itself to be producing many many things of poor quality and then raising prices when it consumes the older ones that did produce things well. Yes, Windsor and Newton needs to stop outsourcing to China as do many other wonderful quality companies, or they’ll go the way of the dinosaurs and so will all our art work because it won’t last.
Hmmm...just got the W/N series 7 brush set (in tubes not box!) and these too look like they were made in China. :( why am I spending money on a W/N best watercolor brush in the world if it’s not made in the UK from W/N. Honestly, I don’t know what I’m actually buying anymore. Got the same thing from Pottery Barn furniture. Plastic! Not wood. No quality. Ugggh
It's complex. Just about everything is, at least, partly made elsewhere because to make certain parts "in your country" is either way too expensive or simply not feasible. For example, how much would it cost to build another building that creates the brush or just the handle for the brush? How much will it cost in labor in the UK compared to China? How much are the permits, the taxes, the labor to build a building where the handles are to be made? Is there even room for this building on the property? Is it cheaper to outsource this part OR is it cheaper to outsource the making of the entire brush??? Sometimes it is the expense of paying wages that eat into the profits of a business OR ... is outsourcing the only way Windsor/Newton can afford to remain in business at all and they really aren't that profitable? It's a big question and it's generally much cheaper to allow China to make the entire brush since they do it for pennies on the dollar. However, this does NOT mean that the quality of the brush is affected. Windsor and Newton probably has excellent quality control, in order to keep their good name! Furniture is another thing altogether. If you want real wood you will pay a high price for it because we must cut down mature trees. We must plant more trees for the future builds. So why not buy hard sturdy plastic furniture, made from recycled waste, rather than chop down trees? Furniture is actually made to be disposable nowadays. We must buy more furniture, sooner than later. However, this keeps those furniture making companies in business. Those businesses keep people employed. Those people get to buy food with money earned. Farmers stay in business, supplying food to workers. Truckers stay in business hauling food. Etc. Etc. The only thing that will change any of this cyclic motion is 1)consumers stop buying products or 2)China pays much better wages to their workforce, therefore, costing businesses that outsource their products to China, too much money. It much cost so much money that they turn back to their home country for production OR they shut down. Can they afford to pay UK's wages and stay open? Maybe not, it depends on if they want to get rich or if they will be satisfied to simply make a good living or if they can afford the wages to begin with - it depends on the company. No doubt, people will lose their jobs when companies change or close up and closures affect the health of the economy. The biggest question we can ask ourselves is, "Are workers willing to make less money to produce products in our home country, if that is what it takes to bring businesses back to operating in our country? Not many are because they barely survive now. The "cost of living" must go down, as well and that's a million other problems to contend with. There are no easy solutions! It's "world economics".
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Hi Lindsay! I saw that you have reviewed a different version of the Phoenix watercolors here! th-cam.com/video/E21WF_vFUa4/w-d-xo.html&feature=emb_title I wonder if this newer version is an improved version or is it the same? Also, is it really "artist grade"? Thanks for this video review, great review as always!
I'd say no, but for the price they are not a terrible deal. They still make the round pan "cake" set for many other companies. They are good for the price but more like a student tempera cake.
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Notification squad 🥳
If out of China check alibaba. Although I hate buying anything from CHINA.
Movies
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