Question Time Stamps for Quick Reference: 0:00 - Intro 1. 0:07 {What Makes a Cult?} What makes a cult? I grew up in a church that took many hard stances on issues that led our elders to act in unbiblical ways. Most would say it was a cult. Where is the line drawn? 2. 25:30 {Female Elders under Male Elder Headship?} Any advice for a member of a church with a male lead elder pastoring alongside ordained female elders who often teach on Sundays? Is there any warrant to the idea that they are under his headship? 3. 31:40 {Does God Overlook Ignorance?} In Acts 17: 30, what does Paul mean by God overlooking the times of ignorance? Was He more lenient toward idolatry before the time of Christ? Or did He stop trying to save the idolaters of that time? 4. 40:18 {Evangelizing the Apathetic} My wife and I are having difficulty ministering to her father who doesn’t seem to care about the topic of God at all. How do you help someone realize the importance of salvation? 5. 46:57 {Does God Operate Outside of Time?} Can you talk about your views on God’s relationship to time? Personally, I find the timeless God view incoherent and unbiblical. It seems He operates within time. 6. 54:52 {What if Election Isn’t about Salvation?} What are your thoughts on election being about service and blessing rather than salvation (i.e., Judas was chosen by Jesus to serve Him but obviously wasn't saved)? 7. 58:08 {Mark of the Beast: Literal or Symbolic?} Could the Mark of the Beast being on the forehead or right hand symbolize something that dominates the mind or actions of those who submit to it instead of a literal mark on the body as many assume? 8. 1:00:37 {Ancient Israel & The Trinity} Did ancient Israelites believe in the concept of a "multi-personal God"? By multi-personal God, I mean a concept similar to the Trinity, where there is one God made up of multiple Persons. 9. 1:06:11 {Christ Ascending & Descending} What is Paul talking about in Romans 10:6-7 when he’s speaking of Christ descending and ascending? The way he phrases things seems like it should be the other way around. 10. 1:10:11 {Making True Disciples} According to Scripture, if the disciple you make doesn't make a disciple, have you really made a disciple?
Similarly, I know that my sister has accepted Jesus as her Lord and Savior earlier in her life. I knew growing up that my sister didn’t date much and that the few people that she was close with were females. By now you have guessed that she is gay. My Mother and I were discussing how she can be so faithful in so many ways, including studying God’s Word daily, but also having a relationship with a woman. Does that mean she will go to hell? God says it’s an abomination yet I know that she is saved. We’re just concerned. This has never kept us from loving her. Love the person, hate their sin.
10) Jesus is the Savior only He saves, we plant seeds of sound doctrine, Jesus is the Good Shepherd. 1 Corinthians 3:7 “So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase”
@@fivenightsatfreddys9369 God is One and ALONE His name is JESUS Jesus is Lord and Saviour The scripture says; There is no other God but the Lord Jesus is the only Saviour The scripture says; There is no other Saviour but God I am the Lord thy God the holy One of Israel thy Savior isa 43: 3 He was in the World and the World was made by him and the World knew him not (Jn1:10 Kjv) VERY VERY CLEAR VERSE HE WAS IN THE WORLD AND THE WORLD WAS MADE BY HIM JESUS CHRIST MADE THE WORLD ALONE Thus saith the Lord thy redeemer and he that formed thee from the wormed, I am the Lord that makes ALL THINGS, that stretcheth forth the heaven ALONE, that spread abroad The earth by MYSELF ( isa44:24) I AM the Lord and there is none else, THERE IS NO GOD BESIDE ME, I girded thee though thou has not known me (Isa 45: 5) He came to his own but his own receive him not ( Jn1: 11) John said for many deceivers have gone out into the World who do not confess Jesus Christ come in the flesh this is Deceiver An Antichrist (2jn1:7 Kjv) Therefore know this day and consider it in your heart that the Lord himself is God in heaven above and on the Earth beneath, THERE IS NO OTHERS (Deut 4:39 Kjv) GOD IS ONE AND ALONE HIS NAME IS JESUS CHRIST THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE ARE CULT..
I was a Mormon for 25 years before God saved me, and Mike is absolutely correct on everything he said about Mormonism. The only thing I'd add is that even mainstream Mormonism is extremely controlling; it's not just the fringe groups. Your salvation depends on your temple work, (and continued temple worthiness.) To attend the temple you can't drink tea or coffee, you must pay 10+% of your income to the Mormon church to be used however they see fit, you must affirm both Joseph Smith AND the current prophet, (which is impossible because they so often disagree,) etc. Then, when you're inside, you make a literal deal with the devil, (the actor who plays Satan says something along the lines of "If you reveal what happens inside the temple you will be under my power," and the temple attendee says "Yes.") Then you make cupping signs to catch your own blood if you tell their secrets. Furthermore, you're not supposed to learn from "unapproved" sources. Mike Winger is definitely an unapproved source haha. Which is to say that Mike is great and I'm very grateful for his ministry
I am so happy God saved you from Mormonism , and I appreciate you sharing aspects of Mormonism that outsiders rarely hear about .. God bless you brother/sister
Uhhh, what? I knew a lot about mormonism and their rituals but I didn't know someone pretends to be Satan inside of their temples and says "if you tell of these secrets you will be under my POWER".
Yeah, the more I learn about Mormonism (I'm a never-mo), the more I see how very culty it is. 😬 Growing up, I always thought it was a respectable - albeit false - religion; but now that I'm hearing from ex-mo TH-camrs, I'm realizing how demanding and controlling it is. Not to mention how they hold your salvation out like a carrot, so you can never do enough to be sure you're saved.
In my 67 years of life, the past 28 years as a believer, I find that many Christians, especially those who are exceptionally bright, tend to insist that all questions can be answered, and that given sufficient study of scripture, we can know pretty much all things. This approach has generated many systemic theologies which are mutually exclusive, which leads me to question both the pursuit of this level of understanding of God (1Cor 13), as clearly such an approach does not lead to a uniform understanding of God, but rather leads to confusion, division and strife. Far better that we simply accept that many mysteries remain and that we do not need to know all things in this life, and we instead humbly yield ourselves to the Lord, with confidence that on that day, we will know just as we ourselves are known.
God controls our behavior. God says you're going to hell if you think lustful thoughts. Being angry is basically like murder. You better be controlled or you're going to hell. God mislead the Jews for a thousand years by making them think sacrificing animals and obeying the law was important just because he said it 500,000 times and was very emphatic about it. The info in the NT is also cryptic enough that no one can agree about anything.
5 qualifications to identity a cult. 1. Group Think. 2. Isolation from society. 3.Special Knowledge no one else knows. 4. Loyalty to leadership above everything else. 5.Purposeful violation of moral and law based boundaries. All 5, not just one.
The definition by Lee that Mike quoted, is one of the most popular among Christian researchers and about as simplified as possible: (1) Deviation on fundamental truth about the Person and work of Christ; (2) a source of authority outside of Scripture; (3) efforts to control the members accordingly. Pretty much every quasi-Christian cult ever, and all the definitions Mike collated from his post on twiXer, meta into those three points.
Here’s an aspect that hasn’t been mentioned in specificity… a cult often has a leader, or series of leaders, who will constantly say they have a “new revelation” from God, and that those “revelations” will begin contradicting things they previously said. These revelations often will benefit that leader specifically, or will contradict a previous revelation in a way that is uniquely convenient to a moment in time.
The second you make the definition of cult about "it has Leader with X amount of Spiritual authority" you open the door to having your definition turned back against Christian faith in Jesus. Christ was a Leader, who attracted thousands, spoke with authority, and provided new or even special revelation from a certain point of view. And when you start getting into the nitty gritty of making a more nuanced version of that definition so it excludes Jesus, you start to undercut it so much it isn't useful anymore.
@imetal16ddin1 that was just a polite and witty way to end a conversation where you weren't agreeing on something. That's not relevant to anything being discussed here.
I was a bit on the fence about trusting your theology - but your response about women as pastor/elder is spot on. I really appreciate what you are doing! That issue is stimulated by feminism. We didn’t make up the rules but we must respect the rules.
I feel one of the major aspects of a cult is the inability to freely leave without being severely shunned by the community OR the actual inability to leave at all. Christianity is built upon a belief in free will and being able to freely choose what to believe. A controlling group that doesn't allow this freedom goes against God's design of free will for humanity.
Free will? Jesus and his disciplines were killed for having different beliefs, were they in a cult? Then the Catholic crusades happened where many were killed for their non Christian beliefs, was that a cult? America was built by Christians escaping other Christians to have religious freedom, was that a cult? Many died for the free will you enjoy today, it didn't come easy.
This is another loaded generalization that needs to be specified. Apostate and heretical ministers in the 1st century often questioned the apostles' authority or undermined their authority. Matter of fact, all of but 2 church eras eventually fell away from the truth because they rebelled against God's ministers, including the era that Christ Himself founded(Rev. 2:4-6)!
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_GeoguessrHere's another common characterstic, of fools, in this case. Everyone who posts nonsense like this, have never read the Bible.
@@SuperEdge67I believe you made a valid point. I do not adhere to any particular institutionalized religion, so I may not have articulated it well. I was a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses for 25 years, but it took me another 30 years after leaving to recognize the harm it can cause. Throughout history, organized religions have inflicted considerable harm in the name of God.
SuperEdge67 I am not sure what you mean by this question. Yes, people who adhere to certain religions would believe that other religions are false because each religion is usually completely contradictory. The fact that they are contradictory also means that only one of them can be true, which means the others are not true. The ones that are not true, therefore, would be false religions. It isn’t just a matter of “considering” other religions false, if one is true that the others are ACTUALLY false, regardless of people’s consideration. For example, if Christianity is true, then every religion that contradicts it, such as Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. are factually false religions even though adherents of those religions wouldn’t say so. They would just be wrong.
This content is so neccesary, not only because of its content, but because of your christian presence in our lives. I'm visiting my newly atheist son and need to hear you talk about Christ.
You can go to his website and search for any questions you have. But also, he's answering questions people have, not just ones he wants to answer. Every question he answers helps somebody. He also has a lot of content on how to help atheists, and many other people have done work on what to do in your situation.
To define a cult, I like the BITE model. A cult controls Behaviour, Information, Thought and Emotion. A cult isn’t just any group that is controlling, it’s a group where people’s own thoughts and emotions are truly formed by what they are told by the leaders. If a person is under a controlling leader and is able to spot that and decide to leave, I’m not sure it’s quite the same as a true cult.
bingo. I hope Mike could possibly answer this cult question again at a later time after doing some research and bring some of this information to his answer, because there are specific things to look out for (a la the BITE model etc). The cult question is a little like the beard question - when does a beard become a beard? It's hard to know exactly when a group becomes a cult, but there are certainly characteristics we can identify, and the more there are, the more the red flags are waving.
This BITE model can be applied to the Protestant Reformers, because they used those tactics to make ppl conform to their theology, no matter how wrong it obviously was. And yet, Protestants always allow the Reformers to be exempt from the kind of scrutiny that the use with groups who have different beliefs.
@@maxspringer01 I think that's fair. As a Christian, without any church leadership involved, Christ controls my behavior, the information I take in, tells me to control my thoughts ("think on these things"), and how I should feel. I think BITE is a good way to sort it out but even then, it's loose enough to turn the average Christian into a cult member.
I have been through bad stuff.. i am a survivor of PTSD. I got past it suddenly from deep thinking about my own mind.. I have been all foggy and distant since my childhood. But from thinking this very simple thing, it vanished.. Foggy because i have given myself a personality to overcome everything that is difficult, so i saw myself as higher looking down.. But i looked to Jesus, and i saw that i was wrong, i was very wrong, i should be looking up. So i found myself believing i needed to lower myself, humble myself. I crawl in my mind, i am submissive, i am beneath, and i believe in Jesus, i look up at Him. If you are anything like i were.. try it. Right when it happened.. the fog vanished, and i felt something cold pouring down my back.. i can't explain it.
Amen Please continue to pray for my grandchildren who live with me and myself for healing and protection and safety Also favour from the authorities to keep us together Thank you
Mike, I love your study and rational approach. One of the best on YT As a man who loves Jesus and wants to see a sound doctrine above all. The church is not a denomination. May God continue to do what he has you doing so well
I also pray for my dad, mike, and slowly, but surely I’m noticing God’s working in his life more often and I believe God is doing the same for your dad and I pray that your dad trusts the lord just as we believers in the church believe in Christ! 🙏
Honestly, time really is a concept God established for us at creation, but we live in a persistent world, just as God is a constant/persistent being. Time is a construct, not a physical barrier, something developed for timekeeping/datekeeping.
Regarding time: Westerners often don't understand biblical ideas and concepts because they think in "either/or" categories. The Bible, however, is written from an eastern mindset, which is "both/and." An attribute of God is that He is timeless. He created "time" and then, remaining timeless, He chose to transcend time -- and interact with His creation inside the time that He had created. In other words, God is "both" timeless "and" transcendent at the same time.
1:17:16 Regarding question 10 I totally agree. The church is called to evangelize, but some people have more of the gift of being a missionary and street ministry (which we think of as evangelism), while others may be more discipling their family and people they know personally while supporting missions. We must either fish or cut bait. It's okay for us to have different roles provided that as a whole we fulfill the great commission.
Thank you for these episodes. I can't tell you how many of these questions are ones I have asked or am currently pondering. I appreciate your point of view and the humility you express. May God bless you and your ministry.
Yay! I speak Visayan Mike. Glad you've been to Philippines. I've been living in Australia since married to my husband, and we both love and pray for you and the ministry God entrusted to you.
On question 5, I tend to take an All-knowing Programmer view of God's relation to time. He set things up to go, in His infinite wisdom, knowing how all possibilities will take shape, working everything together for the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purpose. That theory is good enough for me!
Mike, thank you so much for doing these, this takes a lot of time and effort I know so I wanted to let you know how encouraging these videos are for me. I absolutely love the way you go straight to scripture to walk through real questions. It is by far my favorite thing that I listen to during the week and it helps me to think of scripture first in more and more situations
I love listening to you dig intro scripture and just wrestle with it. You cause me to wrestle with my theology and dig into scripture to do my best to figure it out. Thank you these videos probably take you quite awhile to put together.
Thank you brother appreciate your response… I find myself becoming “rogue” and easily offended after being abused “spiritual and probably perceptively” as you mentioned… I’ve been through counseling and mentorship… I’ve struggled with the submission part to leadership bc I’m afraid I can’t tell the difference sometimes… and it’s not healthy so I thank you for helping myself and others be wary and understanding of our own capacities to shun what is good and what we’re called to in fellowship and under leadership in a good church… but also the weight my mind & flesh can wage war emotionally in the midst what could also be spiritual attack… I yearn for more maturity and yet lack the follow through in following what God says in requirement for it… thanks again.
Schucks - just missed this episode live. I extracted 24 cult characteristics from Ross, Singer and Lifton during some of my past research. They were on a video on a channel that got deleted. Maybe I'll recreate it and put it up again. Very useful stuff. Meanwhile - those are 3 great authors on the subject.
I had no idea Matthew was doing stuff in the public sphere. He's a buddy of mine from college that I fell out of contact with like most people from college. That's pretty awesome!
#4. Mike you prayed the same prayer I’ve prayed over people that I couldn’t reach or were out of my reach. I always ask God to send someone into their life who can communicate on the lost person’s level. It’s my prayer that the lost person would see something in them that would make them want what they have. I also pray that the lost person will become so uncomfortable in their own skin that they will turn to God. There are so many ways to try and reach a lost person that don’t directly involve me. Prayer is a powerful tool! Also, we do have a tendency to beat around the bush. Telling someone that they are going to spend eternity (remind them of the definition of eternity) burning in hell seems harsh but it’s the honest truth and we want to save everyone from experiencing that. The lost person will also have a never ending tape playing through their brain, tormenting them, repeating every opportunity we extended to them to become a part of God’s family. #5. If God is the Alpha and the Omega, hasn’t He always been?🤔
I personally think a cult boils down to two major points. It’s a group asserting that they are the only ones who have the right answers, and then forbidding questioning. Like, the questions alone will have you removed from the community. Even the scriptures tell us to have humility (in other words, accepting that you could be wrong.) and to test all things. There’s no blind following going on.
I always appreciated Dr. Walter Martin's description of a cult: "a group of people gathered about a specific person-or person's misinterpretation of the Bible," while admitting that in spite of "distorting Scripture" such groups' teachings may contain "considerable truths" that have Biblical support but have become de-emphasized by mainstream Christianity, such as divine healing and prophecy.
I like the parade analogy. We watch a parade and see each float go by and each band go by one by one. Where God sees the whole parade at once. The parade being time and each float and band being moments in time.
There's an excellent point near the end of the cult section. There are certainly churches with leaders that overstep their legitimate authority. And many that teach wrong or wrongly consider their convictions to be law over everyone. But their are also people who will not accept correction, will be offended by teaching that goes against their lifestyle or sensibilities. And call any of that abuse. People often like to see themselves in the best possible light, and those they are at odds in the worst.
My church has been called a cult a few times over the years because we do biblical church discipline and we are involved in each other's lives beyond Sunday morning. Cults pervert those things (controlling- think BITE model/love bombing/etc.) but that doesnt mean we then shrink back from doing what the word of God says.
I will always define a cult as this: Any system of belief (religious or otherwise) that does not allow you to question the belief. Does this mean a tyranny is a cult? No, not necessarily because a tyranny isn't inherently a system of belief but rather a system of governance. Can a tyranny also be a cult? Absolutely.
On question #8 at 1:00:37, Michael Heiser in the The Unseen Realm and and Stephen De Young in The Religion of the Apostles have done great work in showing how the Old Testament gave us the clues as to how the New Testament writers pieced together the elements which eventually led to the development of the doctrine of the Trinity expressed at the Council of Nicea. Also see the work by rabbinical scholar Segal, Alan F. Two Powers in Heaven: Early Rabbinic Reports about Christianity and Gnosticism which shows how Second Temple Jews thought of there being two Yahweh figures, which paved the way towards the New Testament. Really awesome stuff.
For question 7: mark on hand and forehead is mentioned in scripture outside of revelation. In Exodus 13:16 it mentions worship/obedience/testimony being like a mark on hand or forehead and in revelation it mentions worshiping the beast and his image coinciding with the mark of the beast.
The word Cult is simply short for Culture, and early on referred to any group that seems to have an identifying behavior or culture. The term was not meant in anyway to be negative. I think today it probably is best understood in the negative as a group that has a general description (Like Christian), but in it's behavior and culture identifies itself outside the norm (Like Mormonism) .
Please Mike. Please do an episode on Kip Mckean’s ICC/ICOC. It been an almost 30 year mental struggle for us. I think it would help a lot of people to have some clarity.
This is an important discussion. The word Cult is thrown around too much. Defining terms is important. I think an important distinction in the Church is to ask if you're following the Lord or a man? Are you able to read God's Word for yourself or are you encouraged to put another person's word above God's Word?
Following the Lord though is just following men that said a long time ago that they were speaking for the Lord. What is really the difference between people who claim that now and people that claim that then? And if you just follow the "holy spirit" or what you "feel" is God, you're really just following yourself because how can you even know if it's God or you.
The concept of time in relation to God's creation is very interesting to me. Most interesting is the consideration of whether or not time will exist in His new creation.
Time will have to exist for as long as any matter (other than God) exists, because He’s the only eternal “thing” in existence. We are finite beings (even if God allows us to continue existing and keeping time going forever). Time isn’t just about time/date keeping - without time there’s nothing that happens after something else.. o cause and effect, etc.
That is one way to look at it, @@timm439. Another way is that "God exists" and He is, thus, timeless. God created "time" and chose to transcendently interact with His creation, while still remaining timeless. It is a "both/and" framework: at the same time, God is both timeless and transcendent.
Question 4. I'm sorry about your situation. I think Mike was right towards the end by the direct approach. As difficult as that might be Jesus said, “Matthew 10:12 -14 (NASB) As you enter the house, give it your greeting. If the house is worthy, give it your blessing of peace. But if it is not worthy, take back your blessing of peace. Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.” Unfortunately, people will reject the good news; this person happens to be a parent. The Bible has examples of shaking dust off your feet or no casting your pearl before swine (Matt 7:6) to those who reject the gospel. Keep praying, may God bless you.
#5. There are so many things we will never understand about God. Time is a mindboggling thing. I think alot of times we are just triangles trying to understand a pyramid.
I Am The Alpha and Omega ie the beginning and the end....so He is everything in between...God sees All time as now...that's how He knows your beginning from end and what you will choose ie free will...a verse that even may imply that...I knew you from the foundation of the heavens and earth..we're constrained by time due to the fall God is not
I have never struggled with where God was 'in time'. I have always believed He is unrestrained by what He created and that includes time. The original "Time Lord" if you will. IYKYK.
Hi Mike, I love your well researched thoughts on our shared faith. Blessings to your ministry. Several times I have heard you mentioned, usually as a nerd, on David Wood's live stream. David can be crass sometimes and mocking of Islam always, but I do enjoy the falsehoods being pointed out. Calling out the lies in Islam publicly satisfies the justice bone in me. I think nerd is a fair assessment and shouldn't be taken as a dig, rather as a descriptive word for a person inclined to study intently in search of accurate answers. What is your opinion of David Wood? Is he a friend to you, does he hurt Christianity with his mockery of Islam? Peace be with you brother.
When God spoke let there be light, a wave propagated across creation. That wave allows observation of time. From our point of view. Time is very relative. As well if there are higher dimensions time would change observable properties with each added dimension. Maybe 🤔
On your response to the question about time. I agree. It is definitely above our pay grade. I wonder though if an analogy that might work is that if time is one of the things created by God(and it is) then how he interacts with it doesn't necessarily correspond to the way we, as also created beings, would interact with it. For example, in my house, there are doorknobs that I can manipulate to travel between rooms, but my dog can not. She just sees me doing something to this other something, and mysteriously a third something opens up and allows both her and I to travel into another area of the house. We, as finite beings, are bound by physical laws that God, being infinite, is not. I'm not sure if this makes sense or not.
I grew up in a Amish community and was after 16 yrs my wife and our children left the amish and we felt like it was cultish but would love your take Mike,
Christianity is different from every religion in that God wants a relatioship with us as well us to declare Jesus as our Lord and savior. No other religion has this facet in play.
Note on reference to The Trinity in Ancient Israel : Genesis 1:26 says, “Then God said, ‘Let US make man in OUR image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.’' Mike it would be such a blessing if you can have a talk about this verse in the light of the Trinity to better equip us when dealing with Messianic Jews who believe that acknowledging Jesus as God, would lean towards polytheism.
Haven’t gotten to the end of the discussion, but on the model of time- I imagine it like a stream, flowing in one constant direction and never reversing, but that stream is “encapsulated” and, from a broad enough point of view, that capsule can be viewed from start to end by anyone outside of it, i.e. God. So, it’s both a “start to finish” kind of thing from the micro, but a “all at once” from the macro. Still mind boggling though! 😵💫
The problem with saying "groups that want to control people" is that also lumps in groups which promote self-control and general obedience to God and morality like baseline Christianity.
Not really. Telling people to control themselves and doing the control for them look very different. It's subtle, but a big difference when you look at the motivations. And the only reason why sin came into the world is because God let us choose. He could have taken away our control right from the beginning, but He chose to give us a choice. When people want control, they use manipulation and coercion to take away choice. People that want control don't forgive, because it sets a bad example for the social coercion they have going on everyone else.
I only just now realized that the live streams don't come up in my subscriptions, but I can find them under the live tab in your channel... I always thought that if I didn't make your live streams that I was out of luck and couldn't ever see them. I have A LOT of live streams to get through now!
I think the distinction of a cult is free will. A cult from my perspective, is if you elect to remove yourself from the group, you are prevented, via reprograming, and other methods. Scientology is an example.
How do we contact you with questions? Website says no contact currently. My question is how can Christians believe Jesus appeared to Saul after death, and trust everything Paul wrote afterwards.. but then say we can’t believe Jesus appeared to Joseph Smith? Thank you
Great question! I would also like to see a response to this question. The only way to ask a question currently is to catch the Friday live stream and submit your question when the stream goes live (when Mike comes on). It might change later, but right now, that's the only contact. He got really popular really fast and has a very minimal staff, so there isn't anyone to handle the "traffic" otherwise. I hope your question makes it, cuz it's a good one! 😊
Phil Johnson has given a good definition before. A cult is marked by: - Extrabiblical Revelation (they claim some gnostic-style secret that they have been made privy to) - Elitism (they believe their sect is the one true church) - Enslavement (superstitious attachment to a self-styled prophet, leader, the group, or the driving principle) - Error (they offer a different Gospel, a different Jesus, or some other kind of heterodoxy on a similarly grand scale)
Small towns like Deadwood are strange... you can have a Catholic minister as your next door neighbor and still be the abused woman next door. I need a Church family. I tried to bring Jesus back into the heart of a 20-year AF Vet. My DAD was AF, but he's been buried in Sturgis since 2013... my ex-"boyfriend" stared at a ring box for a year and wouldn't HONOR my family about it. Nick claims Buddha... not Christ.
1 When you think cult, words like this come to mind: deviation, heresy, error, false religion, manipulation, isolation, abusive. Cult is usually used in a negative connotation
Theologically I don’t see any other option than God is outside and inside of time. He must be outside because of His foreknowledge proven via prophecy. He must be inside time because of the example Mike gave of Jesus.
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Question Time Stamps for Quick Reference:
0:00 - Intro
1. 0:07 {What Makes a Cult?} What makes a cult? I grew up in a church that took many hard stances on issues that led our elders to act in unbiblical ways. Most would say it was a cult. Where is the line drawn?
2. 25:30 {Female Elders under Male Elder Headship?} Any advice for a member of a church with a male lead elder pastoring alongside ordained female elders who often teach on Sundays? Is there any warrant to the idea that they are under his headship?
3. 31:40 {Does God Overlook Ignorance?} In Acts 17: 30, what does Paul mean by God overlooking the times of ignorance? Was He more lenient toward idolatry before the time of Christ? Or did He stop trying to save the idolaters of that time?
4. 40:18 {Evangelizing the Apathetic} My wife and I are having difficulty ministering to her father who doesn’t seem to care about the topic of God at all. How do you help someone realize the importance of salvation?
5. 46:57 {Does God Operate Outside of Time?} Can you talk about your views on God’s relationship to time? Personally, I find the timeless God view incoherent and unbiblical. It seems He operates within time.
6. 54:52 {What if Election Isn’t about Salvation?} What are your thoughts on election being about service and blessing rather than salvation (i.e., Judas was chosen by Jesus to serve Him but obviously wasn't saved)?
7. 58:08 {Mark of the Beast: Literal or Symbolic?} Could the Mark of the Beast being on the forehead or right hand symbolize something that dominates the mind or actions of those who submit to it instead of a literal mark on the body as many assume?
8. 1:00:37 {Ancient Israel & The Trinity} Did ancient Israelites believe in the concept of a "multi-personal God"? By multi-personal God, I mean a concept similar to the Trinity, where there is one God made up of multiple Persons.
9. 1:06:11 {Christ Ascending & Descending} What is Paul talking about in Romans 10:6-7 when he’s speaking of Christ descending and ascending? The way he phrases things seems like it should be the other way around.
10. 1:10:11 {Making True Disciples} According to Scripture, if the disciple you make doesn't make a disciple, have you really made a disciple?
Similarly, I know that my sister has accepted Jesus as her Lord and Savior earlier in her life. I knew growing up that my sister didn’t date much and that the few people that she was close with were females. By now you have guessed that she is gay. My Mother and I were discussing how she can be so faithful in so many ways, including studying God’s Word daily, but also having a relationship with a woman. Does that mean she will go to hell? God says it’s an abomination yet I know that she is saved. We’re just concerned. This has never kept us from loving her. Love the person, hate their sin.
10) Jesus is the Savior only He saves, we plant seeds of sound doctrine, Jesus is the Good Shepherd.
1 Corinthians 3:7
“So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase”
cult means people who worship 3 gods
@@fivenightsatfreddys9369
God is One and ALONE
His name is JESUS
Jesus is Lord and Saviour
The scripture says;
There is no other God but the Lord
Jesus is the only Saviour
The scripture says;
There is no other Saviour but God
I am the Lord thy God the holy One of Israel thy Savior isa 43: 3
He was in the World and the World was made by him and the World knew him not (Jn1:10 Kjv)
VERY VERY CLEAR VERSE
HE WAS IN THE WORLD
AND THE WORLD WAS MADE BY HIM
JESUS CHRIST MADE THE WORLD ALONE
Thus saith the Lord thy redeemer and he that formed thee from the wormed, I am the Lord that makes ALL THINGS, that stretcheth forth the heaven ALONE, that spread abroad The earth by MYSELF ( isa44:24)
I AM the Lord and there is none else, THERE IS NO GOD BESIDE ME, I girded thee though thou has not known me (Isa 45: 5)
He came to his own but his own receive him not ( Jn1: 11)
John said for many deceivers have gone out into the World who do not confess Jesus Christ come in the flesh this is Deceiver An Antichrist (2jn1:7 Kjv)
Therefore know this day and consider it in your heart that the Lord himself is God in heaven above and on the Earth beneath, THERE IS NO OTHERS (Deut 4:39 Kjv)
GOD IS ONE AND ALONE
HIS NAME IS JESUS CHRIST
THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE ARE CULT..
I was a Mormon for 25 years before God saved me, and Mike is absolutely correct on everything he said about Mormonism. The only thing I'd add is that even mainstream Mormonism is extremely controlling; it's not just the fringe groups. Your salvation depends on your temple work, (and continued temple worthiness.) To attend the temple you can't drink tea or coffee, you must pay 10+% of your income to the Mormon church to be used however they see fit, you must affirm both Joseph Smith AND the current prophet, (which is impossible because they so often disagree,) etc. Then, when you're inside, you make a literal deal with the devil, (the actor who plays Satan says something along the lines of "If you reveal what happens inside the temple you will be under my power," and the temple attendee says "Yes.") Then you make cupping signs to catch your own blood if you tell their secrets. Furthermore, you're not supposed to learn from "unapproved" sources. Mike Winger is definitely an unapproved source haha. Which is to say that Mike is great and I'm very grateful for his ministry
I am so happy God saved you from Mormonism , and I appreciate you sharing aspects of Mormonism that outsiders rarely hear about .. God bless you brother/sister
Glad you're out.
Bless you. ❤
Uhhh, what? I knew a lot about mormonism and their rituals but I didn't know someone pretends to be Satan inside of their temples and says "if you tell of these secrets you will be under my POWER".
@@parkerbrantley4356 To be fair, most temples don't have live actors anymore. Now it's a video. 😅
Yeah, the more I learn about Mormonism (I'm a never-mo), the more I see how very culty it is. 😬 Growing up, I always thought it was a respectable - albeit false - religion; but now that I'm hearing from ex-mo TH-camrs, I'm realizing how demanding and controlling it is. Not to mention how they hold your salvation out like a carrot, so you can never do enough to be sure you're saved.
On behalf of the entire Mike Winger fan club we approve the fresh thumbnails! Thank you so much!
Fan club or a cult? 😅
I'm just joking🙂
YES!!
@@Sviatoslav_The_Brave The Wingalings are a cult masquerading as a fan club!
Mike Winger fan club or Mike Winger cult? 😂😂
@@Sviatoslav_The_Bravelol 😂
In my 67 years of life, the past 28 years as a believer, I find that many Christians, especially those who are exceptionally bright, tend to insist that all questions can be answered, and that given sufficient study of scripture, we can know pretty much all things. This approach has generated many systemic theologies which are mutually exclusive, which leads me to question both the pursuit of this level of understanding of God (1Cor 13), as clearly such an approach does not lead to a uniform understanding of God, but rather leads to confusion, division and strife. Far better that we simply accept that many mysteries remain and that we do not need to know all things in this life, and we instead humbly yield ourselves to the Lord, with confidence that on that day, we will know just as we ourselves are known.
Well said
Amen.
I like the B.I.T.E. model for defining a cult:
Behavior control
Information control
Thought control
Emotional control
I would add Money Control and Education Control
So it would be BITE ME 😂
God controls our behavior. God says you're going to hell if you think lustful thoughts. Being angry is basically like murder. You better be controlled or you're going to hell. God mislead the Jews for a thousand years by making them think sacrificing animals and obeying the law was important just because he said it 500,000 times and was very emphatic about it. The info in the NT is also cryptic enough that no one can agree about anything.
It's not difficult at all to define what a cult is you just don't like the definition because it includes all religions
Nice , I have heard or seen this before . Thank you
Religion
5 qualifications to identity a cult.
1. Group Think.
2. Isolation from society.
3.Special Knowledge no one else knows.
4. Loyalty to leadership above everything else.
5.Purposeful violation of moral and law based boundaries.
All 5, not just one.
The definition by Lee that Mike quoted, is one of the most popular among Christian researchers and about as simplified as possible: (1) Deviation on fundamental truth about the Person and work of Christ; (2) a source of authority outside of Scripture; (3) efforts to control the members accordingly. Pretty much every quasi-Christian cult ever, and all the definitions Mike collated from his post on twiXer, meta into those three points.
You’ve just described IsLame
By these definitions Jesus was a cult leader.
@@gregorywootton3870 explain #5 as it applies to Jesus?
@@daduzadude1547 And number 2 while you're at it, cause... my bible says "Great Commission".
The new hour or so long format is great, It's my new favorite thing to watch on a Saturday morning. Much Love from Australia Mike and Team :)
Same ! I’m in Aus too and started listening thismorning when I got out of bed.
Same but I'm from the Czech Republic
Here’s an aspect that hasn’t been mentioned in specificity… a cult often has a leader, or series of leaders, who will constantly say they have a “new revelation” from God, and that those “revelations” will begin contradicting things they previously said. These revelations often will benefit that leader specifically, or will contradict a previous revelation in a way that is uniquely convenient to a moment in time.
This is important to note in distinguishing a cult from a plain old oppressive sect.
The second you make the definition of cult about "it has Leader with X amount of Spiritual authority" you open the door to having your definition turned back against Christian faith in Jesus. Christ was a Leader, who attracted thousands, spoke with authority, and provided new or even special revelation from a certain point of view. And when you start getting into the nitty gritty of making a more nuanced version of that definition so it excludes Jesus, you start to undercut it so much it isn't useful anymore.
I liked it when as a kid my pastor would say "Search for yourself and you'll see that I'm right"
@imetal16ddin1 that was just a polite and witty way to end a conversation where you weren't agreeing on something. That's not relevant to anything being discussed here.
@@danieldishon688 that was when he was preaching.
I was a bit on the fence about trusting your theology - but your response about women as pastor/elder is spot on. I really appreciate what you are doing! That issue is stimulated by feminism. We didn’t make up the rules but we must respect the rules.
The Wingaling delivers!
??
🤓
I feel one of the major aspects of a cult is the inability to freely leave without being severely shunned by the community OR the actual inability to leave at all. Christianity is built upon a belief in free will and being able to freely choose what to believe. A controlling group that doesn't allow this freedom goes against God's design of free will for humanity.
Free will? Jesus and his disciplines were killed for having different beliefs, were they in a cult?
Then the Catholic crusades happened where many were killed for their non Christian beliefs, was that a cult?
America was built by Christians escaping other Christians to have religious freedom, was that a cult?
Many died for the free will you enjoy today, it didn't come easy.
The Bible says to kick out those living in open sin.
@BrockJamesStory yes. But to treat them still as a brother and not an enemy
PRAYER - the Holy Spirit is the one who works in other people. I keep praying- Keep speaking - keep loving.
I think the most common characteristic between cults, is the taboo of questioning the leadership.
Yup yup, don't question the bible, it's from God, check....
This is another loaded generalization that needs to be specified. Apostate and heretical ministers in the 1st century often questioned the apostles' authority or undermined their authority. Matter of fact, all of but 2 church eras eventually fell away from the truth because they rebelled against God's ministers, including the era that Christ Himself founded(Rev. 2:4-6)!
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_GeoguessrHere's another common characterstic, of fools, in this case. Everyone who posts nonsense like this, have never read the Bible.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779This is a comment on TH-cam, not a comprehensive study on every aspect of cults.
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_GeoguessrYou find comfort in ignorance, just like every other fool who never bothers to study a topic they argue.
I agree about the overuse of the word "cult". It can shut down a conversation with someone heavily indoctrinated into a dangerous false religion.
Like Christianity.
What exactly is a false religion? Every religious person would consider every religion other than there’s false.
@@SuperEdge67I believe you made a valid point. I do not adhere to any particular institutionalized religion, so I may not have articulated it well. I was a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses for 25 years, but it took me another 30 years after leaving to recognize the harm it can cause. Throughout history, organized religions have inflicted considerable harm in the name of God.
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_GeoguessrTell me you don't know the definition of cult without telling me you don't know the definition.
SuperEdge67 I am not sure what you mean by this question. Yes, people who adhere to certain religions would believe that other religions are false because each religion is usually completely contradictory.
The fact that they are contradictory also means that only one of them can be true, which means the others are not true. The ones that are not true, therefore, would be false religions. It isn’t just a matter of “considering” other religions false, if one is true that the others are ACTUALLY false, regardless of people’s consideration.
For example, if Christianity is true, then every religion that contradicts it, such as Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. are factually false religions even though adherents of those religions wouldn’t say so. They would just be wrong.
This content is so neccesary, not only because of its content, but because of your christian presence in our lives. I'm visiting my newly atheist son and need to hear you talk about Christ.
You can go to his website and search for any questions you have. But also, he's answering questions people have, not just ones he wants to answer. Every question he answers helps somebody. He also has a lot of content on how to help atheists, and many other people have done work on what to do in your situation.
To define a cult, I like the BITE model. A cult controls Behaviour, Information, Thought and Emotion. A cult isn’t just any group that is controlling, it’s a group where people’s own thoughts and emotions are truly formed by what they are told by the leaders. If a person is under a controlling leader and is able to spot that and decide to leave, I’m not sure it’s quite the same as a true cult.
bingo. I hope Mike could possibly answer this cult question again at a later time after doing some research and bring some of this information to his answer, because there are specific things to look out for (a la the BITE model etc). The cult question is a little like the beard question - when does a beard become a beard? It's hard to know exactly when a group becomes a cult, but there are certainly characteristics we can identify, and the more there are, the more the red flags are waving.
This BITE model can be applied to the Protestant Reformers, because they used those tactics to make ppl conform to their theology, no matter how wrong it obviously was. And yet, Protestants always allow the Reformers to be exempt from the kind of scrutiny that the use with groups who have different beliefs.
Does Christianity apply to the BITE model?
I think the missing piece of BITE is that cults teach lies.
@@maxspringer01 I think that's fair. As a Christian, without any church leadership involved, Christ controls my behavior, the information I take in, tells me to control my thoughts ("think on these things"), and how I should feel.
I think BITE is a good way to sort it out but even then, it's loose enough to turn the average Christian into a cult member.
I have been through bad stuff.. i am a survivor of PTSD. I got past it suddenly from deep thinking about my own mind..
I have been all foggy and distant since my childhood. But from thinking this very simple thing, it vanished..
Foggy because i have given myself a personality to overcome everything that is difficult, so i saw myself as higher looking down..
But i looked to Jesus, and i saw that i was wrong, i was very wrong, i should be looking up. So i found myself believing i needed to lower myself, humble myself. I crawl in my mind, i am submissive, i am beneath, and i believe in Jesus, i look up at Him.
If you are anything like i were.. try it.
Right when it happened.. the fog vanished, and i felt something cold pouring down my back.. i can't explain it.
Amen Please continue to pray for my grandchildren who live with me and myself for healing and protection and safety Also favour from the authorities to keep us together Thank you
I just prayed for you.
Thank you for your wisdom and clearer mind about these hard questions Mr. Mike. 😔❤️
Mike, I love your study and rational approach. One of the best on YT
As a man who loves Jesus and wants to see a sound doctrine above all. The church is not a denomination. May God continue to do what he has you doing so well
I really needed to hear the last few minutes of this. Thank you. 🙏🏻
I also pray for my dad, mike, and slowly, but surely I’m noticing God’s working in his life more often and I believe God is doing the same for your dad and I pray that your dad trusts the lord just as we believers in the church believe in Christ! 🙏
I love this new wider angle!!!
Honestly, time really is a concept God established for us at creation, but we live in a persistent world, just as God is a constant/persistent being. Time is a construct, not a physical barrier, something developed for timekeeping/datekeeping.
Regarding time: Westerners often don't understand biblical ideas and concepts because they think in "either/or" categories. The Bible, however, is written from an eastern mindset, which is "both/and."
An attribute of God is that He is timeless. He created "time" and then, remaining timeless, He chose to transcend time -- and interact with His creation inside the time that He had created.
In other words, God is "both" timeless "and" transcendent at the same time.
So you are saying that in the East I would have to use EITHER the "both/and" logic OR nothing else? I'm not following your logic.
I see what you did there, @@mickknight6963 . 🙂
1:17:16 Regarding question 10 I totally agree. The church is called to evangelize, but some people have more of the gift of being a missionary and street ministry (which we think of as evangelism), while others may be more discipling their family and people they know personally while supporting missions. We must either fish or cut bait. It's okay for us to have different roles provided that as a whole we fulfill the great commission.
I wish I could find someone just like you. So understanding, humble, sincere about helping.
Thank you for these episodes. I can't tell you how many of these questions are ones I have asked or am currently pondering. I appreciate your point of view and the humility you express. May God bless you and your ministry.
"If Christianity is a cult, everything is a cult". Well done Mike!
Yay! I speak Visayan Mike. Glad you've been to Philippines. I've been living in Australia since married to my husband, and we both love and pray for you and the ministry God entrusted to you.
Love your shirt. Good da beauty sings of a glorious Creator. Jesus is King.
On question 5, I tend to take an All-knowing Programmer view of God's relation to time. He set things up to go, in His infinite wisdom, knowing how all possibilities will take shape, working everything together for the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purpose. That theory is good enough for me!
Mike, thank you so much for doing these, this takes a lot of time and effort I know so I wanted to let you know how encouraging these videos are for me. I absolutely love the way you go straight to scripture to walk through real questions. It is by far my favorite thing that I listen to during the week and it helps me to think of scripture first in more and more situations
Господи, Помилуй! Господи, Прости!
I love listening to you dig intro scripture and just wrestle with it. You cause me to wrestle with my theology and dig into scripture to do my best to figure it out. Thank you these videos probably take you quite awhile to put together.
Thank you brother appreciate your response… I find myself becoming “rogue” and easily offended after being abused “spiritual and probably perceptively” as you mentioned… I’ve been through counseling and mentorship… I’ve struggled with the submission part to leadership bc I’m afraid I can’t tell the difference sometimes… and it’s not healthy so I thank you for helping myself and others be wary and understanding of our own capacities to shun what is good and what we’re called to in fellowship and under leadership in a good church… but also the weight my mind & flesh can wage war emotionally in the midst what could also be spiritual attack… I yearn for more maturity and yet lack the follow through in following what God says in requirement for it… thanks again.
Yes. And it is important to find a good church. I keep having to leave when I see there is problematic teaching off Bible.
I learn so much with each Q&A video. Thank you.
Regarding God and time, Chuck Mishler noted that God is a spirit and therefore has no mass. He, therefore, isn't restricted by time.
Also, he created time so is not controlled by it.
Schucks - just missed this episode live. I extracted 24 cult characteristics from Ross, Singer and Lifton during some of my past research. They were on a video on a channel that got deleted. Maybe I'll recreate it and put it up again. Very useful stuff. Meanwhile - those are 3 great authors on the subject.
God bless you. You have a great channel.
Jesus came to Save !!! W/O that..if newbies are reading that could lead them wrong besides taking away from the BOOK. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME 😊
I had no idea Matthew was doing stuff in the public sphere. He's a buddy of mine from college that I fell out of contact with like most people from college. That's pretty awesome!
#4. Mike you prayed the same prayer I’ve prayed over people that I couldn’t reach or were out of my reach. I always ask God to send someone into their life who can communicate on the lost person’s level. It’s my prayer that the lost person would see something in them that would make them want what they have. I also pray that the lost person will become so uncomfortable in their own skin that they will turn to God. There are so many ways to try and reach a lost person that don’t directly involve me. Prayer is a powerful tool! Also, we do have a tendency to beat around the bush. Telling someone that they are going to spend eternity (remind them of the definition of eternity) burning in hell seems harsh but it’s the honest truth and we want to save everyone from experiencing that. The lost person will also have a never ending tape playing through their brain, tormenting them, repeating every opportunity we extended to them to become a part of God’s family.
#5. If God is the Alpha and the Omega, hasn’t He always been?🤔
And God never does. Praise God for his wisdom and gaslighting.
I personally think a cult boils down to two major points.
It’s a group asserting that they are the only ones who have the right answers, and then forbidding questioning. Like, the questions alone will have you removed from the community.
Even the scriptures tell us to have humility (in other words, accepting that you could be wrong.) and to test all things. There’s no blind following going on.
Great content. I learned a lot thank you again.
I always appreciated Dr. Walter Martin's description of a cult:
"a group of people gathered about a specific person-or person's misinterpretation of the Bible," while admitting that in spite of "distorting Scripture" such groups' teachings may contain "considerable truths" that have Biblical support but have become de-emphasized by mainstream Christianity, such as divine healing and prophecy.
🇹🇹The globe is back!!! Yay!
I like the parade analogy.
We watch a parade and see each float go by and each band go by one by one. Where God sees the whole parade at once. The parade being time and each float and band being moments in time.
Yes. God existed before time and is not a slave to it like we are. He is the master of time and can affect how He sees fit. Time is Gods instrument.
There's an excellent point near the end of the cult section. There are certainly churches with leaders that overstep their legitimate authority. And many that teach wrong or wrongly consider their convictions to be law over everyone. But their are also people who will not accept correction, will be offended by teaching that goes against their lifestyle or sensibilities. And call any of that abuse. People often like to see themselves in the best possible light, and those they are at odds in the worst.
My church has been called a cult a few times over the years because we do biblical church discipline and we are involved in each other's lives beyond Sunday morning. Cults pervert those things (controlling- think BITE model/love bombing/etc.) but that doesnt mean we then shrink back from doing what the word of God says.
That was great you got the “time” question right after you said it wasn’t your area of expertise.. questions were already in too 🤯🤯🤯
Q4: Our job is just to plant the seeds and pray tirelessly. The Holy Spirit does the rest. There's great peace in that.
Thanks, Mike
What's the difference between a religion and a cult?
A religion has more people.
I will always define a cult as this:
Any system of belief (religious or otherwise) that does not allow you to question the belief.
Does this mean a tyranny is a cult? No, not necessarily because a tyranny isn't inherently a system of belief but rather a system of governance. Can a tyranny also be a cult? Absolutely.
My childhood was a lot like that old Brittish show... All Creatures Great and Small.
On question #8 at 1:00:37, Michael Heiser in the The Unseen Realm and and Stephen De Young in The Religion of the Apostles have done great work in showing how the Old Testament gave us the clues as to how the New Testament writers pieced together the elements which eventually led to the development of the doctrine of the Trinity expressed at the Council of Nicea. Also see the work by rabbinical scholar Segal, Alan F. Two Powers in Heaven: Early Rabbinic Reports about Christianity and Gnosticism which shows how Second Temple Jews thought of there being two Yahweh figures, which paved the way towards the New Testament. Really awesome stuff.
For question 7: mark on hand and forehead is mentioned in scripture outside of revelation. In Exodus 13:16 it mentions worship/obedience/testimony being like a mark on hand or forehead and in revelation it mentions worshiping the beast and his image coinciding with the mark of the beast.
The word Cult is simply short for Culture, and early on referred to any group that seems to have an identifying behavior or culture. The term was not meant in anyway to be negative. I think today it probably is best understood in the negative as a group that has a general description (Like Christian), but in it's behavior and culture identifies itself outside the norm (Like Mormonism) .
Please Mike. Please do an episode on Kip Mckean’s ICC/ICOC. It been an almost 30 year mental struggle for us. I think it would help a lot of people to have some clarity.
This is an important discussion. The word Cult is thrown around too much. Defining terms is important. I think an important distinction in the Church is to ask if you're following the Lord or a man? Are you able to read God's Word for yourself or are you encouraged to put another person's word above God's Word?
Following the Lord though is just following men that said a long time ago that they were speaking for the Lord. What is really the difference between people who claim that now and people that claim that then? And if you just follow the "holy spirit" or what you "feel" is God, you're really just following yourself because how can you even know if it's God or you.
The concept of time in relation to God's creation is very interesting to me. Most interesting is the consideration of whether or not time will exist in His new creation.
Time will have to exist for as long as any matter (other than God) exists, because He’s the only eternal “thing” in existence. We are finite beings (even if God allows us to continue existing and keeping time going forever). Time isn’t just about time/date keeping - without time there’s nothing that happens after something else.. o cause and effect, etc.
That is one way to look at it, @@timm439. Another way is that "God exists" and He is, thus, timeless.
God created "time" and chose to transcendently interact with His creation, while still remaining timeless.
It is a "both/and" framework: at the same time, God is both timeless and transcendent.
Jesus talks about "this age" and "the age to come." The Bible also has references to "the end of the age " and "forever and ever."
Question 4. I'm sorry about your situation. I think Mike was right towards the end by the direct approach. As difficult as that might be Jesus said, “Matthew 10:12 -14 (NASB) As you enter the house, give it your greeting. If the house is worthy, give it your blessing of peace. But if it is not worthy, take back your blessing of peace. Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.” Unfortunately, people will reject the good news; this person happens to be a parent. The Bible has examples of shaking dust off your feet or no casting your pearl before swine (Matt 7:6) to those who reject the gospel. Keep praying, may God bless you.
Yay! The globe is back!🥰😻
#5. There are so many things we will never understand about God. Time is a mindboggling thing. I think alot of times we are just triangles trying to understand a pyramid.
I Am The Alpha and Omega ie the beginning and the end....so He is everything in between...God sees All time as now...that's how He knows your beginning from end and what you will choose ie free will...a verse that even may imply that...I knew you from the foundation of the heavens and earth..we're constrained by time due to the fall God is not
Well done 🙏
I have never struggled with where God was 'in time'. I have always believed He is unrestrained by what He created and that includes time. The original "Time Lord" if you will. IYKYK.
Agreed. God is both timeless and transcendent, at the same time.
New setup is FIRE
Hi Mike, I love your well researched thoughts on our shared faith. Blessings to your ministry. Several times I have heard you mentioned, usually as a nerd, on David Wood's live stream. David can be crass sometimes and mocking of Islam always, but I do enjoy the falsehoods being pointed out. Calling out the lies in Islam publicly satisfies the justice bone in me. I think nerd is a fair assessment and shouldn't be taken as a dig, rather as a descriptive word for a person inclined to study intently in search of accurate answers. What is your opinion of David Wood? Is he a friend to you, does he hurt Christianity with his mockery of Islam? Peace be with you brother.
Looking good bro!
Love the T!
I went to school with Matt Mittleburg how cool seeing him on here!
The revolving globe is back!
Thank you.
Your not alone Pastor Mike about etc.
When God spoke let there be light, a wave propagated across creation. That wave allows observation of time. From our point of view. Time is very relative. As well if there are higher dimensions time would change observable properties with each added dimension.
Maybe 🤔
On your response to the question about time. I agree. It is definitely above our pay grade. I wonder though if an analogy that might work is that if time is one of the things created by God(and it is) then how he interacts with it doesn't necessarily correspond to the way we, as also created beings, would interact with it. For example, in my house, there are doorknobs that I can manipulate to travel between rooms, but my dog can not. She just sees me doing something to this other something, and mysteriously a third something opens up and allows both her and I to travel into another area of the house. We, as finite beings, are bound by physical laws that God, being infinite, is not. I'm not sure if this makes sense or not.
Very cool.
32:55
This is why Michael Heiser said “I felt like Paul- “ when speaking with a TH-camr who worships Greek gods
I grew up in a Amish community and was after 16 yrs my wife and our children left the amish and we felt like it was cultish but would love your take Mike,
Why did you feel it was cultish?
😅 0:07 another great example of Brother Mike's humor. 👌
Christianity is different from every religion in that God wants a relatioship with us as well us to declare Jesus as our Lord and savior. No other religion has this facet in play.
Note on reference to The Trinity in Ancient Israel : Genesis 1:26 says, “Then God said, ‘Let US make man in OUR image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.’' Mike it would be such a blessing if you can have a talk about this verse in the light of the Trinity to better equip us when dealing with Messianic Jews who believe that acknowledging Jesus as God, would lean towards polytheism.
Thanks! Great video!
Haven’t gotten to the end of the discussion, but on the model of time- I imagine it like a stream, flowing in one constant direction and never reversing, but that stream is “encapsulated” and, from a broad enough point of view, that capsule can be viewed from start to end by anyone outside of it, i.e. God. So, it’s both a “start to finish” kind of thing from the micro, but a “all at once” from the macro. Still mind boggling though! 😵💫
Thanks ❤😂🎉
On question #10..? Yes. We are not responsible for others choices. Plus, Not everybody has the gift of evangelism.
People used to mock the Millerites, too. They didn't read their Bibles carefully and mistakes were made. That was about 100 years ago, now...
The problem with saying "groups that want to control people" is that also lumps in groups which promote self-control and general obedience to God and morality like baseline Christianity.
Not really. Telling people to control themselves and doing the control for them look very different. It's subtle, but a big difference when you look at the motivations.
And the only reason why sin came into the world is because God let us choose. He could have taken away our control right from the beginning, but He chose to give us a choice. When people want control, they use manipulation and coercion to take away choice.
People that want control don't forgive, because it sets a bad example for the social coercion they have going on everyone else.
I only just now realized that the live streams don't come up in my subscriptions, but I can find them under the live tab in your channel... I always thought that if I didn't make your live streams that I was out of luck and couldn't ever see them. I have A LOT of live streams to get through now!
I think the distinction of a cult is free will. A cult from my perspective, is if you elect to remove yourself from the group, you are prevented, via reprograming, and other methods. Scientology is an example.
How do we contact you with questions? Website says no contact currently.
My question is how can Christians believe Jesus appeared to Saul after death, and trust everything Paul wrote afterwards.. but then say we can’t believe Jesus appeared to Joseph Smith?
Thank you
Great question! I would also like to see a response to this question. The only way to ask a question currently is to catch the Friday live stream and submit your question when the stream goes live (when Mike comes on). It might change later, but right now, that's the only contact. He got really popular really fast and has a very minimal staff, so there isn't anyone to handle the "traffic" otherwise. I hope your question makes it, cuz it's a good one! 😊
Phil Johnson has given a good definition before. A cult is marked by:
- Extrabiblical Revelation (they claim some gnostic-style secret that they have been made privy to)
- Elitism (they believe their sect is the one true church)
- Enslavement (superstitious attachment to a self-styled prophet, leader, the group, or the driving principle)
- Error (they offer a different Gospel, a different Jesus, or some other kind of heterodoxy on a similarly grand scale)
Sounds like Calvinism to me
36:20 Paul is teaching through Psalm 24. Read it in parallel with his teaching here.
Small towns like Deadwood are strange... you can have a Catholic minister as your next door neighbor and still be the abused woman next door. I need a Church family. I tried to bring Jesus back into the heart of a 20-year AF Vet. My DAD was AF, but he's been buried in Sturgis since 2013... my ex-"boyfriend" stared at a ring box for a year and wouldn't HONOR my family about it. Nick claims Buddha... not Christ.
1 When you think cult, words like this come to mind: deviation, heresy, error, false religion, manipulation, isolation, abusive. Cult is usually used in a negative connotation
I have a question I would love to hear your answer for Mike: can the Bible itself be an idol?
I started listening while working around the house. And was confused. I mean everyone knows a colt is a young male horse.
Cool shirt Mike.
Theologically I don’t see any other option than God is outside and inside of time. He must be outside because of His foreknowledge proven via prophecy. He must be inside time because of the example Mike gave of Jesus.
Agreed. God is both timeless and transcendent, at the same time. It is a "both/and" framework of understanding.