Ejection 161 - Chad Pinder Tossed After Questioning Umpire Edwin Moscoso's Replay-Upheld Foul Call
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2022
- 3B Umpire Edwin Moscoso ejected Athletics RF Chad Pinder for arguing a foul ball call affirmed via Replay Review during the half-inning prior to inning break with the ejection. Replay ruled Moscoso's foul ball as "stands." Report: www.closecallsports.com/2022/...
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This is how the conversation should have went.
Pinder: why did you call that foul?
Umpire: because it was foul.
Pinder: goes and take his position and plays the rest of the game.
That wouldn't be very baseball.
@@probaddie456 true. But young players emulate these "professionals" and you can see the attitude in those age groups, unfortunately.
@@seanokeefe2420 I know, I was just being tongue-in-cheek about how bizarre some of the standards of behavior are in baseball.
@@probaddie456 I know you were. I was just ranting more. All is good.
Never should have had a discussion in the first place. Balls & strikes.
I don't know what there was to discuss. Your bench asked for the review and it didn't go your way. What more is there to talk about? Go play your position.
Or go hang out in the clubhouse,
You should be able to ask why the replay guys thought what they did.
@@mbdg6810 it's likely that the onfield umpires don't know why the replay officials went the way they went. I doubt there's much discussion between the two crews. "what are they challenging?" "The call of foul on the field." "We don't have difinitive evidence to overturn it. Call stands." There's probably not much more than that. So asking as a player is pointless, and usually is reduced to arguing.
Michael, unfortunately we live in an age where if something doesn't go their way then people believe they're either being intentionally cheated or the decision maker has to be wrong. "So if they're wrong then I have a right to be mad and I'm not liable for my behavior because I wouldn't lose my mind if they had just got it right." it's an age of blaming everyone else and not being mentally tough enough to handle adversity without behaving like a child. It's a belief that I have a right to argue and insult you because I don't like that you called something that went against me. It's actually this kind of behavior that keeps me from actually watching baseball anymore. I watch Close Call for Baseball Rules and analysis, and I'm happy leaving it at that.
@@mbdg6810 The "why" is obvious. he thought he saw green inbetween the ball and the chalk line. The replay room couldn't come up with clear evidence that he got it wrong (and to be honest on the replays at the angles we have, it looks very much like the ump got it right).
There is literally nothing else to discuss. The only reason to bring it up is to antagonize the umpire. The review system was brought in to get get calls right. And in this case, it very much looks like they got it right.
Fletcher sounded thrilled that Oakland challenged
It doesn't even need to be a personal insult. The ump made a call, looks wrong using the awful angle we got (why they don't have foul line camera is peak MLB), and it stood. This is on Pinder, gripe about review after the game, but the fact it was called FOUL in real-time AND review, means, at the very least, it was extremely close, so idk why engage the ump there.
The call looked correct live and it looked correct in the review. For that ball to have touched the line even at the molecular level we'd need to measure the grass height and know the speed and angle of the ball to determine the compressability of the ball and grass to determine if any contact was possible.
Does CCS have an easy way to track how many ejections per year are related to replay? I would be interested to see if the replay rule is causing more ejections or preventing them.
New Title suggestion: Ejection 161 - This Happens in 1st Inning When You are Playing Meaningless September Baseball
Bruce Froemming, an ump that retired several years ago, mentioned how saying “You” can lead to an immediate ejection.
The ejection came after “what’d i say?” though
Thats... A bad fuckin rule
@@TeemoQuinton No, it's not a bad rule. What makes you think umpires need to tolerate personal insults?
@@alanhess9306 who said anything about personal insults? Saying you shouldnt be grounds for ejection, full stip. What follows should based upon context. You shouldnt even factor in. "Thats fucking bad" and "you are fucking bad" have the exact same meaning in context of the batter striking out and it shouldnt matter which is used.
@@TeemoQuinton You have never umpired have you? When a player uses the word "you", it becomes personal. "That's fucking bad" is referring to the call. "You are fucking bad" is a personal insult. Too bad you cannot understand the difference. You don't know wtf you are talking about.
What no one is mentioning, especially you, is that no umpire, especially one in MLB, is going to have any kind of tolerance for a player or coach to want to rehash a call after a half inning is over. Especially one that has been reviewed and upheld. Allowing that only serves to open a can of rotten worms.
That's a shame, the ego of these fucking weirdo umpires. Communication is a part of sports. And life.
Bullshit. Pinder did nothing wrong by trying to ask a question. If you're that thin skinned then you shouldn't be a MLB umpire.
@@douglassepic9030 can you read? or are you having trouble clearing the bullshit from your eyes?
Your notion of how the game should be played is a fantasy.
@@douglassepic9030 it was a foul ball, it was reviewed, there was nothing to even ask about. If you're that thin skinned you can't even do your job as a player and stay in the game (in the first inning) then you shouldn't be out there.
@@gmarolda you should be able to ask why the review determined the call to be what it did. Thats not “arguing” and if it is thats a bs interpretation of it.
The player didn’t stop once asked so yeah it was his fault there.
I always find it hilarious the baffled look a player has once ejected for arguing after told to stop lol
he put his hand up giving stop sign signal (and probably told him verbally, "we're not talking about that call. Move on..."). Don't players & announcers know that is a final warning to CEASE & DESIST?
If you told your assigner you dumped someone for asking "what did i say?" after a warning you'd get an earful and you know it
"Why did you call it foul?"
"It fell to the left of the line."
somebody who can read lips please tell me what he said lol
also, what is there to argue? he saw it foul and replay wasn't enough to overturn the call. Pinder should have never even stopped to say anything to the umpire
Don't know the first part but as soon as the umpire put his hand up Chad Pinder says "What did I say?" And then gets immediately tossed
@@pigs6486 Because he knew exactly what he said lol. What is he even trying to argue?
@@EJayMD-11 the clearly incorrect call lol. That's a bad dump. "What did i say?" doesn't deserve an ejection even after a warning
@@bananaland5445 its amazing how perfect of umpire you are oh wait, no first off you don't bring call up again after it was look and next innning your getting ejected you bring it up. he was warned not to he still did. proper ejections period. bad call yet bad somehow can't be overtrun cause you don't agree with call stop buttkissing your team
@@critter2 i don’t care about the A’s at all. If he was gonna dump him for continuing the argument then dump him for it but to warn him and then toss him for asking “what’d i say?” is chickenshit
Pretty easy to read his lips. Moscoso tells him to stop and Pinder says "What did I say?" If that's ejectable for being personal or profane bring on the robots.
I agree with you! I think we should have a camera of foul line area.
Jomboy will straighten this one out! 😂
I was thinking the same thing. It looks like he says, “What did I say?”
Maybe if they went back to chalking the lines might help not the painted lines.
No magic words, he questioned the replay call. That's as automatic as if it were his manager.
For the edification of all who might think the ball touched part of the line Lindsey needs to add the link to the CCS article that explained an MLB change/clarification to a ball first falling on foul territory in the outfield.
You have a great voice. Love your chanell.
It looked, to me, like he was asking "why did you call it foul", or "how close was it", but when the Ump seemed to say he didn't want to hear it/engage, it LOOKED like Pinder was asking why, but I guess it was close enough, to the Ump, to be questioning the Replay Review, to get the ejection.
So, just speculation on your part?
@@rayray4192 Pretty much. He didn't seem to be chewing out/yelling at the Ump, until after he got thrown out. I'm not a lip reader, so if he said any "naughty/magic words", I missed it, but going by his demeanor, he simply seemed curious, as he was passing the Ump.
@@kendog52361 He’s an idiot. No umpire allows past history to be brought up. Call was made; call was checked; move on.
@@rayray4192 And a shit load of common sense, yes.
questions (that are rational ; non-sarcastic/non-accusatory) shouldn’t be “a toss”
The fact the rule acts like replay is sacred is a problem.
One thing to remember that wasn't pointed out in this video is the ball doesn't necessarily need to touch the chalk. If ANY part of the sphere is over the line when it lands its a fair ball. To me this was conclusive enough to overturn. I would have argued here as well.
MLB has added an interp to it's MLBUM (Major League Baseball Umpire Manual) a few years ago regarding a ball "that first falls on foul territory beyond first or third base" being a foul ball. Basically due to geometry that ball has to be at least half over the outfield fair/foul line, not including the painted blades of grass to be called fair. Otherwise it first fell on foul territory. It goes against what we all have been taught but it exists and I'm guessing Moscosso has been exposed to it as was NY.
@@jamesmurray3948 So it really isn't in the OBR, just another ridiculous "interpretation". If the ball lands with any part over the line, it is fair. "FAIR TERRITORY is that part of the playing field within, and including the first base and third base lines, from home base to the bottom of the playing field fence and perpendicularly upwards. All foul lines are in fair territory. " (page 146 of 2022 OBR pdf)
@@brianmullaney6237 Actually the MLBUM interp is an official interp of OBR written for their Official Baseball Rules. But it makes sense if you actually parse the rule for a ball first landing past first or third and consider the field to be a flat plane and the ball to be a round sphere and no grass or compressible dirt to be involved. It actually is in the OBR foul definition.
Umpires should get bodycams like the cops. I bet the players would be much nicer to umpires if their insults could end up on youtube an hour after the game where they got ejected.
Understand that you can't argue a replay call. But let's give Pinder benefit of doubt for a second and let's not jump to "he made it personal". what if he really just wanted a quick second to ask Ump "can you tell me what you saw"? that type of quick question should be allowed, as long as he asks and moves on. Players and managers should get an explanation. We've all seen replay get a call completely wrong, sometimes overturning a call that was 100% correct on the field. But no one ever gets an explanation. They shouldn't be able to argue, but ask for what the reasoning was seems fair.
They should put it in the foul pole so the players don’t get in the way
I've been thinking top of the fair pole as well. (They indicate a fair ball not a foul ball)
@@KWally or homerun or not!
@@KWally it's a foul pole. If the ball hits it it's fair but it is called a foul pole.
Fletcher's cocky way of saying they challenged shows you just how big some of these egos are.
I don't know why it isn't universal, but at times you do see a camera facing down the foul line, as a fun shot going into or out if breaks, use it. That said, I think it is usually a fish eye lense, so I don't know how useful that shot would be.
Unless you’re a bench player, you’re more valuable on the field then tossed out…but, it’s Oakland lol (jk). He got to vent before going out and that’s the Manager’s job to go out and defend his players and calls. He gets paid to manage the roster, set the lineups, make changes and take the metaphorical bullet, at the NCAA and MLB level. Not saying the players can’t be mad but you KNOW you’re running that risk by taking that chance.
Ron Kulpa tossed Phil Nevin and Terry Francona then left the game after getting hit by a ball.
It looked to me like the player asked a question rather than argued. Is simply asking a question worthy of an ejection?
So, speculation in your part what was said?
@@rayray4192 And "he got ejected because he said something ejectable" isn't?
I can't think of a single innocent question to ask the umpire about this call. Saying anything other than an affirmation of a good call (without any hint of sarcasm) is being argumentative.
@@TPinesGold "How close was it?"
Does that hurt your feelings?
@@pigs6486 No, I would have to contain my laughter -- if a MLB player asked that I might conclude that he still lives at home with his mommy.
because the Ump knew he called it wrong
The ump was not wrong.
another year or two this will become an automatic fine for arguing replay
If you pause it where the ball lies, it looks like it clips the line on the left side( if you're looking down the line from homeplate"...looks fair..but that's gotta be a tough call live because it actually is hard to tell on replay slowed down.
Slightly different rule beyond the basses. Trying to find the link...
@@Subangelis I was just about to rebuttal until what you said made sense to me..if the ball is in fair territory and then goes foul after the base I believe it is still fair??... so if that's the case why was it called foul?..they had that exact problem in the LLWS
@@2332Stephen its a fly ball ..........even though a line drive, its still where it lands, and it looked like there was grass in between the ball & the line, making it foul
@@mptr1783 well to me it looks like it clips the line a little bit on the left Edge if you pause it where the ball hits the ground but the angle is such an awkward angle because they don't know how to put cameras on the foul lines for some stupid ass reason
@@2332Stephen yeah, I agree that MLB certainly should be able to use technology by putting cameras down each foul line
A Crash Davis spoken moment ejection
Baseball needs a yellow card. That was a terrible toss.
Umpires should not be above reproach. They should be able to answer why they made the decision they did.
There is a version of the yellow card. When the umpire holds up their hand in a "Stop" motion, that is a warning that continuing to do whatever you are doing (arguing in most cases) you will be ejected.
He gave him a warning. I guess flash cards are required
@@sherman4114 That's about right. Warning 1/4 of s second later. Boom outta here. You need to give people a little rope. Umpires have some of the worst personalities in the world. They never got over getting picked on in high school.
Huh? First, it was a correct call and the review got it correct. There's nothing left to discuss. The umpire held up his hand to tell him he was on thin ice, and he fell through by continuing to argue a settled call.
@@hwileyiii In all honesty, it would be helpful. I think that the larger move, and the understanding for everyone to be able to see it would help. The subtle "I warned him by blinking three times, just doesn't cut it in my book. Also, umpires mess up as much as any other human. Yet, they are judge jury and executioner for the players that they effect. They can't go back an un eject someone.
Furthermore, they can ruin the experience for the true people that matter in the game, the spectators. Imagine paying all this money only to see your good players booted in the first inning.
Ron Kulpa made it clear when he said he could do whatever he wanted what the mindset was of these people. I wonder how they behave in the real world.
Looked foul to me and the ump was in a perfect position to make the call and replay showed nothing clearly wrong. The ump seems to have a thin skin but I am puzzled what the player was crying about - he should worry about his play and not the ump's job.
A lot of this could be solved by using the NFL method. Allow the umpires to review the footage and get their call right. Then, at least you're arguing with the guy who made the decision.
Oakland is on there way to losing 100 games or more. Yeah it's the umpires fault we stink.
In my opinion that was a fair ball because the ball clearly hit the white line.
clearly? The replays in this video certainly wasn't clear. Was there another video which showed it more clearly?
This is one of those things where from the angle we saw it looked like it _probably_ was fair, "probably wrong" isn't the standard for overturning calls.
@@almostfm true but then on field calls shouldn’t be because i feel like it’s ___
Seems clear to me also, but seems like we're the only two who think that. In my opinion it's not even a close call.
@@yelnick_mcwawa Unless you're referring to other replay videos not shown in this video, no way can you say it was clear. Yes, it looked like it might have nicked the line but it isn't definitive in this video...
That just costed the A's the pennant
So, according to you, one controversial call in a 162 game season cost them the pennant? How many games did they lose because of bad base running or fielding errors?
@@alanhess9306 I posted this 6 months ago, Alan. I'm pretty sure I was being facetious.
@@a_badali Hard to tell from printed words you are being facetious or sarcastic. There are many folks here that would post such a ting being totally serious.
@alanhess9306 the A's were never winning the pennant
Moscoso was in the perfect position to make the call. He called it foul and so it was foul. As for the ejection itself it seems obvious by Moscoso holding up his hand that Pinder was given a warning to stop jawing, he didn't, hence ejected. All perfectly reasonable to me.
Get rid of 99% of the replay crap. It's like feeding animals and having them bite you.
Pinder hitting a blistering .231........I'd be mad too....But hey...blame the umpires for your minor league hitting performance while making $2.75 MILLION a year. Got it.
Cameras down the lines would be interesting, but for the record I HATE when the NHL reviews a goal for offsides, particularly after the puck has been in the zone >30 seconds. It's too fussy of a rule in a fast paced game.
With you. Fortunately, the ball would have been foul for less than 30 seconds at least when they challenged it!
In NHL it just proves how many offsides they're missing . They're in the way but can't keep up(refs)
total lack of personality from the umpire. Unnecessary ejection. If he kept going after he asked then maybe.
proper ejection proper waring nothing wasn't unnescessary it was unencessary for player to ask
yes if you're a robot and lack a complete sense of judgement
@@critter2 questions (that are rational ; non-sarcastic/non-accusatory) shouldn’t be “a toss”
The fact the rule acts like replay is sacred is a problem.
Question:
Commenters here and Lin say, “The player/coach got run for….”
When did it change from “wrung?”
In other words, when did it change from “to wring the player up” to “to run the player up?”
I think it’d be because commentators will say “he got rung up” when referring to a strike 3 call so they probably use run more than rung now to not confuse between a player being ejected and being called out on strike 3
It has never been wring or wrung. You "ring" some one up (as in a bell), or you "run" them from the game. The past tense would be "ran".
Umps need thicker skin 🤣🤣🤣
"Why did you call it foul??"... I'll take this - 'Well genius, the ball was foul and that was in fact backed up by the review". Einstein he ain't.
Umpires making dumbs of themselves
Why did he call it foul? It was foul lol. So no, not a good question. Why else would he call it foul?
If the baseball touches any part of the chalk line, it’s a fair ball. Even with the bad camera angle, the ball hit the line.
We need to put body cams on these empires. We need to find out which empires retailalate and let ny make these ejection calls.
Also on bench clearings.. if anyone leaves the bull pen they will be ejected from the game.
AGREED!
The quick hook is because the ump knew the call is wrong. When they know it’s wrong, they get super sensitive and want the player gone quick.
Weekly Oakland screw job.
The A's won this game.
@@priceright8963 It's in reference to the brutal replay track record, not the W/L record. But thanks.
@@pigs6486 Touche.
He was tossed on asking What did I say. That is actually very clear. Moscoso tells him to knock it off, Pinder asks, What did I say? and Moscoso tossed him. Moscoso had a little power trip on that one and I can not defend it. If he would have said, that was fair, or an insult, then yes, he was arguing the call, but after the hand wave to then ask, what did i say, and get tossed for that, Moscoso should be pulled in for a meeting on how feelings are subjective and baseball isn't for umpires with hurt feelings.
I'm not sure what was said... but it appears the umpire told him that we're not going there (Hell, there has been a pitch since AND replay has already let it stand... No need for discussion) and he didn't take the warning... digging up and trying to talk about old plays is one of the magic "You're not going to be around long" things you can do... It was damn close, the ump was in perfect position, set.. and replay failed to overturn... that aught to tell you something. I'm getting so sick and tired of MLB allowing the blatant disrespect of umpires to continue. But Robbie is too busy worrying about pace of play to realize that this disrespect turns fans off too...
And he got tossed for saying what, Ron? Oh yes, "what did I say?" Asking for clarification is now an ejectable offense.
@@brianmullaney6237
After a review, yes it is.
@@brianmullaney6237 First, whenever I see a player say "What did I say?" they always said something before that. Also note.. Umpires will tell you.. questioning balls/strikes is akin to arguing...I don't know what he said.. It's clear he said something and the blue told him to stop (even putting the hand up) and he failed to shut his mouth.. It's a foul ball that replay failed to overturn.. LET IT GO IDIOT.. nothing good can come from it... but you just have to open your mouth.. if you have to talk to them.. crack a joke.. but not about them..
A little arguing with the umpires is part of baseball. It's sort of expected. At some level, perhaps it may influence a call later in the game - but probably not. And I can understand managers trying to get their teams fired up by getting ejected. That's a fair tool to use. But players? Once the call is made and reviewed, you need to drop it. If you're going to say anything on your way out to the field, it had better be to apologize for being a jerk while at bat. "Sorry, Ed, I lost it a bit there on that call." There's simply no reason to get yourself ejected like this.
Except he never "lost it" at any point. Cute little fantasy though...
Great call, Great job. Absolutely nothing to talk about or ask. Call was made. Call was reviewed. We move on.
Awful job lol if that’s the stance then you toss him when he approaches you. You don’t give a warning and then dump for “what’d i say?”
If you’re gonna warn you can go the next step and say we can’t discuss that call when he asks why. Either be a hardass by the book or use common sense but don’t half ass both
Once again the players and managers not realizing that the umpire did not call it foul the reviewers in NYC called it foul and the local umpires have nothing to do with it. Once you call for a review the locals are out of it and his call is not standing and the Reviewer has the call as fair/foul and it is standing.
Mos is weak minded
That's a terrible ejection by 3B. He correctly warns Pinder because he cannot argue that call but then all Pinder says is "what did i say?" to then get the hook. Just an awful job by Moscoso. Don't like that little hand up to the ear gesture after the review either. Dude was looking to run someone
Doesn't matter. He doesn't even need the "personal insults" there -- just questioning the review is a toss.
You send someone else out there to have a chat. Maybe after you've reviewed the footage.
You don't trot out their immediately after the break and talk about a review call if that is an electable issue.
He could have run him immediately by all rights.
The hand goes up. Buddy shuts his trap, turns and walks away.
No story. No ejection.
@@michaelfalkner1186 questions (that are rational ; non-sarcastic/non-accusatory) shouldn’t be “a toss”
The fact the rule acts like replay is sacred is a problem.
@@drebk The problem is, you just threw three ejectable offenses there:
Questioning the review result is automatic, questioning after video is another, and the argument is a third of it's own right.
@@mbdg6810 I agree, but we know that's the rule -- you argue a review, you're sitting the rest of the game.
Pinder’s question was…do you realize what an terrible ump you are…
first, he got the call right. 2nd, Pinder shouldve been running and never wouldve had the same angle that the ump did. Green grass between the ball and line......FOUL
@@mptr1783 No, I agree, ump made the right call. I’m just speculating about what the batter said.
@@equinoxproject2284 gotcha
Indians game , 9/12 have fun with that one!!!
So many sad little thin skinned umpires. They really should find another line of work.
I don't see you out there.
@@hwileyiii Not my job
@@dl72fan Clearly!
This ejection was ridiculous, your not allowed to talk to an umpire, that is a joke, and they wonder why umpires are most hated officials in sports