DIRT CHEAP, $100 4.8L LS BOOST! JUNKYARD V6 M90 BLOWER TO THE RESCUE! IT FINALLY WORKS ON THE 4.8L!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 พ.ย. 2023
- CAN I RUN AN M90 BLOWER ON MY LS? 3.8 VS 3.0 VS 2.6 PULLEY TEST. HOW MUCH BOOST WILL AN M90 SUPERCHARGER MAKE? CAN THE 3800 V6 BLOWER REALLY WORK ON THE V8? DOES A $100 JUNKYARD BLOWER REALLY WORK? HOW CAN I MAKE CHEAP SUPERCHARGED BOOST ON MY LS? HOW DO I ADAPT THE V6 BLOWER TO MY V8? CHECK OUT THIS FOLLOW-UP TEST TO MY PREVIOUS VIDEO WHERE I RAN A FACTORY M90 ROOT-STYLE SUPERCHARGER DESIGN FOR A 3800 V6 ON A CAMMED 4.8L. THIS TIME I GOT IT RIGHT! I INSTALLED THE BETTER GEN V BLOWER, LARGER THROTTLE BODY AND THREE DIFFERENT BLOWER PULLEYS TO CRANK UP THE BOOST OFFERED BY THE LITTLE M90 BLOWER.
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With the 2.6 that little blower is working harder than a rented mule. Love to see it with some kind of heat exchanger
2 blowers would be absolute madness on this setup
4L Whipple would have been madness.
Look up twin M90s on a third Gen firebird
Twin M90s would be sexy. 😂
My same thoughts
One good turbo is enough
I'd love to see how much more power it would make with an intercooler. I'd also like to see intake temps as well.
I don't have much blower experience past m62s, but I'm betting IATs on this were probably around 170 dungrees F at redline. Intercooling this particular setup would be a challenge, you'd obviously be much better off ditching the holly lower intake for a custom built part to squeeze a heat exchanger in that valley. Throwing some I/C action and more timing at such a setup would be spectacular results!!
Maybe intake valves floating due to using stock springs, aftermarket cam and adding boost. At 6 psi, the intake valve springs are losing somewhere between 15-20 lbs of seating pressure.
100% correct in my opinion. And this explains why you see the flat spot start at tje same rpm with the higher boost pulley.
so after markets springs , rockers and a turbo cam it will be, i am guessing it will hit 600 hp, but still a 75-80 mm turbo is king( and cheaper longterm operation less parts to fail ) on any LS and will outlast any factory junk yard m90 eaton blower , but good to test a junkyard blower to see if theres power to be made .
@@spanishtreasure9551 the blower will struggle to get there. Adding the cam springs and rockers will allow it to make more power on lower boost but that blower will not make as much boost on the same pulley as it does with the stock cam.
The video quality and production has seriously increased over the while. Good job and keep it up! We love the stuff you do
That was surprising. Now we need to call it "the little blower that could." 😛
I've been 10.79@126 @3500lbs with one of them m90s 😆
I really enjoy these vids because they get to the point really fast. Not these elongated explanations that go on for what seem like hours. Much appreciated.
I have a 2006 Silverado 4.8 , 200k on it ,and that little mouse motor pulls my 6k boat all day long with no issues . But I would not want to put a blower on it ,with all the cost that go's into it .Just for more torque . If I needed more power ,i would drop in a 6.0L .with no d.o.d or cam phaser. Or install lower diff radio gears .
Guessing the "Drop-off" at 6,000 RPMs is the stock valve springs, but the 2.6 pulley disproved that.
I can't wait to see the ported blower!
When the gtp car were pretty common we would use the Northstar t-body and injectors it felt impressive by the butt dyno back then in the 90's
Your enthusiasm is infectious Richard. Thank you for your content. 👍
Oh Richard I'll just die without your content!My little heart bubbles every time I get some content from you Richard oh Richard you're some guy!!
Ran off the map of blower efficiency and created a bunch of heat
Great job revisiting this one. This is some awesome very low buck power
Still have my M112 Eaton,from the Whipple upgrade on my Terminator, boxed up in the closet.You gave me some great ideas for its future use.
Nice job Richard its been fun watching the process
Yes! Please continue to plug away at this little combo. It would be very interesting.
Man the nostalgia is so great with this M90 stuff. I was really trying to be more refined than the common practice stuff on my SSEi when I tried 9.5:1 intercooled on e85 and was playing with crankcase vacuum but I wish I had spent a LOT more time on the heads. Those 3800 heads don't flow much but it was more than enough to send the 7/8 chain through the side of my trans.
You need to use the setup off a Thunderbird Super Coupe. It has a jack shaft assembly that step-up the rpm even more. Couple that with an MPX supercharger housing you could get over that 500HP number.
Given that the 3v 4.6 roush ran a Gen V M90 I'm not super surprised but still pleased to see it work well.
This is great. I got my hands on one of these gen 5 blowers today.
I wonder if a ported m90 would do much better 🤔 keep doing the lords work my friend
I’m wondering if It can be slap in a ls1 5.7 and see what numbers it runs
North Star throttle body is a great replacement for the gen5 blower just an FYI
Been waiting foreverrr for this vid. Awesome stuff man 🫡🫡
This is awesome. I just happen to have a random 3.8 V6 with M90 sitting in my garage for no apparent reason and an LS1 in my Rx7.
This is legit the video I've been begging for on your first video with a 3.8 supercharger on the LS. I'm running the same cam the only difference is I have a 5.3
I have an m90 on my 6cyl 4.0 jeep and it rips. I've never dynoed it but I was impressed with the little thing
Wow it really is directly over 4 of the holes. Do big tb and ic 👏👏👏 excellent work
Not since u put this video out, ebay superchargers just jumped 1000 bucks 😅
Thanks Richard! Great content, as usual!
Richard , i Like the way you display all of the engine changes on your graphs , each change has like a 20 to 25 h/p difference , so cool , would you consider on your last test by using Nitro Methane ? it should jump about DOUBBLE The H/P ? that would be fun to see those Tests !
Another outstanding video!
I did a setup similar to this on a ford 302. It supposedly pushed 4lbs of boost, but i love to see other setups being properly tested
Now we know what it’s capable of. Very cool. Thanks
I am surprised that it made more power with only 1.6 pounds of boost. I figured 1.6 lbs would not even cover the parasitic drag. Wow
NA at best is 14.7PSI before the throttle blades. This is atmospheric pressure. The piston going down the bore creates a low pressure area (vaccum) that the atmospheric pressure tries to fill. It does not take much boost pressure to aid that cylinder filling.
1.6psi should be 10 to 15% power increase.
@@dennisrobinson8008that's not how that works
@@daledavies2334 … but it takes horsepower to turn the blower. So my point was/is that I am surprised it did more than break even with only 1.6 lbs of boost.
@@baby-sharkgto4902I fully realise the situation, that the blower requires torque from the crankshaft to drive the blower. That reduced torque relates to reduced power. But a small positive pressure on the intake really aids the air entering the cylinder past the intake valve. This why F1 cars have a snorkel above the driver's head, to develop a ram effect of the intake air. Land Speed racers tend to run the snorkel out the front 6" to 12" in front of the radiator. The inlet size is not generally large, say 2" or 3" × 6" to catch dead cool air. It is not much but enough to aid the air getting into the cylinders at close to 200 MPH.
Similar is the tapering of the intake port from a larger cross section at the intake gasket to a bit smaller just up from the bowl. Then the bowl volume gets a bit larger. What this does is accelerate the air and then slow it in the bowl. This raises the pressure slightly in the bowl which aids the air to squirt past the valve.
Too big a port volume causes lazy airflow and reduced low speed torque, caused by the air not getting past the valve well.
High five Richard, another great test!
Been waiting for ages for this video, seems like years have passed since you first mentioned trying this.
Man, I love this channel such realist builds
I love the little m90s. My wife's Impala SS sounds like it's hauling ass when you step in it but, it's on a stock pulley so it's all just noise(which is plenty for her lol) . Cool video man
Direct Express is a low down p o s organization. In my opinion !
I love the engine work that u do Richard !
no idea what direct express is
Thanks for running this test. Now I can show folks this video so they can stop asking me about it. Folks know I had a GTP that moved out back in the day. Now... Can you run an LSA test? Did that deal with the LSA blower fall thru?
Never would have thought, Rich. These blowers struggled on the 3.8.
What?!! No they didnt. I had a 99 GTP S1X intense cam, Gen5 blower 2.8 pulley on E85 non intercooled even it made 330whp and 410wtq and grednaded transmissions just as fast as I could rebuild them LOL!! 😂😂
That's impressive....
Wrecker yard blower giving a nice little "BOOST"...!!!😊
I was waiting for the video lol. Love that shirt too. I need to get me one
That was a nice test what where the intake temps? by any chance. Also add a 50 shot of nitrous really wake it up. That would be a cool build for a rat rod
I have an m112 on my sbf 302, cam, and heads. Only running 6.5psi. She don't make a lot of power but the whine is definitely the best part.
Can’t help but think two blowers would be awesome. 60’s style!!!!
en route
This is cool. Makes me want to put one on my 4.8l in my silverado. Holly manifold and a plate of aluminum. Neet.
Can’t wait for version 2 of this vid.
Love ZZP, I wish every company would be like them.
Man Richard, I really love it when you test things that don't seem to make a lot of sense like this. It's when we learn the most. Now I'm wondering what the upper limit is for doing this same thing on a larger engine. This blower might actually make some power on a 5.3 or maybe even a 6.0 or 6.2.... Who woulda thunk it!
Use two M-90 supercharger
Just get its bigger brother the m112 etc. From a gt500
@@toob247 That would be the more obvious answer, but those are probably a lot more expensive, and it's more interesting in a way to see if the super cheap, obviously too small one will still make more power than expected when mounted on a larger engine.
@@tptrsn m90 is good for about 300hp 260rwhp. All kinds of forums. The thunderbirs sc was awesome but never made big numbers even totally worked
@@toob247 I get that, but did you watch the video?
I'd like to see it with an intercooler. Superchargers tend to heat the heck out of the charge air, depleting the air density.
I ran water meth injection on a Tacoma with the M90 with the small pulley and 7th fuel injector. Water meth helped, but it would heat sink pretty fast.
Has anyone used one of those old mini blowers like a 142, 144 blower on an LS with a carb? See them Laying around cheap pretty frequently.
100 bucks for 100 horsepower is fantastic bang for the buck
Great video, looks like we shouldn't hear you keep saying the M90 is too small for a 4.6 anymore haha JK Richard. I do wish the leak tests were performed, I know a good amount of people that were looking forward to that information in my blower groups and forums. If a bubbler delete (manifold drain) would possibly gain you 1psi or more that is seen as much more valuable to the community that runs small blowers capable of only 8 PSI max or similar like this test. If your blower maxes out at say 8psi and that delete allows you to now make 9psi or possibly 10psi that is a lot more important of a gain to them then somebody who's running large blowers capable of say 15-20psi as they may not care at all for that delete since those blowers can already produce the psi to toss their rods.
planned
Interesting to see it actually made power.
Nice job with making that aluminum plate adapter!!!
I'm thinking dual blowers and throttle bodies... pin the crank and spin them babies up! It would take some special placement on the manifold as well as some drive belt engineering. Its still gotta be cheaper than buying another supercharger.
Id assume the power leveling off on the 3.0 pulley is because of the heat from the m90. They build more heat than boost and IAT is ahead of the boost
Pretty solid results
I thought the last one did poorly, this was a pretty big surprise. cool test
Thankyou for testing this, ive always wondered what those little blowers could do on an ls
Its all good tell you put it in a Chevy. With all the electrical problems, and all the 5vt problems
It's crazy how much HP this vortec engines can hold with stock internals other than the cams. Now imagine springs, rods, better cooling etc.
Plenum volume will allow for the air to move freely, because I bet with the adapter sitting on top of just two sets of runners the back runners were choked down..
Question is did you have O2 sensors on every exhaust runner coming off the heads?
Are check to see what each exhaust port was running for temperature?
Like I was saying a sheet metal plenum to allow for the air to equalize would probably fix the problem of falling on it's face at high RPM's, and possibly the addition of dividers to funnel the air to each intake runner
The peak power leveling off in the boosted application... maybe valve float? Maybe airflow restriction? Maybe a combination of both?
I just found one of these blowers locally for $100.
Richard, would you be willing to share a parts list and possibly the dimensions for the adapter plate? I have a good running 4.8L that I got for free, and really have no idea what to do with it. A $100 blower seems like the move here.
+1 on the dual blower setup id love to see that
Need a triangular top plate to mount 2 of those blowers at angles with an air/water Intercooler sandwiched to see what it can do. I would love to see it.
Intresting as usually 👍
Try porting the blower and open the tb opening to 102 see how much power it can pick up
the interesting thing about lobe roots blowers, is that adiabatic efficiency isn't directly related to lobe speed but total pressure ratio. They are great at moving massive quantity's of air, efficiently at low pressure, but they SUCK at compressing air in terms of efficiency.
this worked well at low boost on a high-hp (relative to the V6)V8
Wondered if every one understands that maybe 15hp used to run blower ?
much more than that
To what end? Boost pressure is a measure of intake restriction. Improve intake, reduce boost, increase power
@drivenbullet260 psi does always correlate to more air. 1cu.ft. of air at 160degrees is less air than 1cu.ft. of air at 80degrees at same psi. Cool down the charge air and you don't need to worry about pressure.
I want to see the M90 on the 4.2 Atlas
Need to port the inlet. 100 mm+ if you wamt to see bigger power numbers. Roots style blowers hate inlet restrictions. Gains to be had on thr outlet side, but way more inlet side of things. Get am intercooler as well, and then you coukd probably go down to a 2.2ish" pulley. Might be able to see 525-550 hp with that set up.
I am with you it was timing. I say back off a couple more dsgress. Are you setting up the injector timing on these?
That's kind of wild that basically the M90 is pretty pathetic on a V8 but I remember when Roush had a M90 on the 4.6 2 and 3 valve years ago that made decent power.
Oh boy i have 2 of these in my garage and a 5.3 in my truck
Would like to see the charge IATs.
And just a small spray of water/washer fluid/meth into the TB. Don’t need much.
Valve float. Stock VS are good NA to 6k, with 6 and 8 psi boost you lose some VS pressure. Doesn’t take much more VS pressure just +10-20 psi will stop the valve float.
I'm blown away!
dad jokes
Valve float. Maybe jam some water/methanol into the project. A pre blower splash to help seal and cool that junk.
Very good like seeing cost going into the equation not just money for more. Have you got a GEN V LT1 on E85 versus pump gas?
yes BTR did compare e85 to pump gas on an LT1
Also You should check out the SC off of a 94-95 thunderbird SC in which you could make a huge bolt on inlet for
I'm curious what output air temp from the blower was like with the three different pulleys. Maybe had something to do with power curves of the middle and smallest setups.
Meth injection or a heat exchanger would help a lot. An eaton m112 from a jaguar can be had for cheap and would be better sized for this motor
E85 took care of the heat
@@damebashmotorsports It doesnt take care of it, it just increases octane. EVERY factory boosted vehicle is intercooled now-a-days. I would love to know the outlet temps.
@@TurboTimZZP you're a clown, the biggest advantage of E85 is the reduced temperature of the air going into the engine. You can put a car on E85 and not touch the timing and still make more power.
That would be the perfect setup for a functional cowl induction hood
Weiand 144 and 177s will fit those hoods also
Holy shit dude... Going from 3.8 to 3.0 on that pulley was a was like a 45lbft increase @ ~3krpm. That's absolute insanity out of a junkyard M90 heat pump! WHY COULDNT MORE OEMS PUT M112S ON FACTORY CARS SO WE COULD SNAG THEM FROM JUNK YARDS!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks Richard,you made me laugh 😅 that blower isn't much bigger than the alternator on that 4.8
I would think porting the blower, even one of the home dremel jobs I bet would get another couple pounds of boost and a larger throttle body. Even lsa chargers run out of steam after a bit and need to be ported.
You did mention that it had stock valve springs, could they have been floating causing the power to level/drop off?
I would play around with one like this. Maybe I'll have to build one with the 5.3 I have sitting around
Was interested !
The ft.lbs. is going to be crazy with the small pully.
That little motor rips! Too bad that Hi ram is so expensive, it would be a super budget combo. Still cheaper than any other off the shelf blower for an ls.
actually wild i can take a trip to the junkyard grab me one of these m90s rebuild it run a 2.8 pulley and 80 lbs injectors a truck cam and I can make almost 115 more horse power.
Love to see this motor with a turbo feeding into the supercharger
It complicates it, the boost compounds unless you find a way to open the bypass when the turbo boost exceeds the SC.
see the compound 3800 (blower and turbo) video
What would happen if you slapped on of these on a stock LY6 because you were looking for an increase in low end torque?
Just a wild guess....with the blower that far forward the pressure (boost) will drop the further it go's back ?
Ok. So I did a little digging. Apparently the only gen v(5) m90 3800 application is the 2004-07 Grand Prix gt/gtp. There is one currently in Dayton Ohio LKQ but it's been there 2 months so it's a crap shoot. The 5 lkq near me don't have any. Gen 3 are fairly common. I'd still really love to see this test with a gen 3 with a pulley swap. I know it's not as easy to do but it's possible.
Honestly all said and done (porting and what not) just get the Gen 5 or if you want to stay somewhat cheap and still have good potential with porting then go m112...it blows my mind that people even consider the m90 gen 3 even though yes it is cheap but the gen 5 m90 is already a better blower to begin with
@@monikhushalpuri yeah well, all blowers are the same price in the junkyard. You just gotta find one. No m112 except rover and jag. Haven't scored one yet because they're rare ish. Same as the gen 5. Never seen one near me and I have them set to email me when they show up.
M90s are decent for the money. We been 10.79@126 @3500lb with one on a 3800 v6. Was using a 61mm (2.4in) pulley with a 10% OD balancer. Maybe you could find an over driven LS balancer to try??
ati has them or I have a bolt on from Torqstorm
@@richardholdener1727could you try it in a ls1 ?
The overdrive balancer on the 3800 really helped me out with avoiding belt slip with too-small blower pullies and not having to turn the snout.
Great to compare the M112 and M122 as well.
hard to find and much more expensive
Now I want to try to shoehorn this onto my 5.4 2v motor lol
Put 2 of those blowers on next. That would be sweet. Just weld up a triangle.
Throttle body size seems like a restriction. How could I cheaply boost my 6.0 with SS2? I would prefer a supercharger over a turbo. I’ve owned several park ave’s with the SC 3.8. Love that platform!