I've done about 30,000 rings of chain in my life, none of it riveted. I can tell you from experience that there is a fine line between a hobby and a mental illness.... and I'm convinced that riveting, ESPECIALLY WITH SUCH TINY RINGS, crosses that line. =]
looks like a running Theam? a stop on our trip. did that, now we are done! now it's plating, passivation, bluing, gun smithing, and making historic Dark Powder(as easy as cookies) for said historic arms
Insanely time-consuming. I am not surprised armour was so expensive back then and even these days it can be expensively, especially historically accurate builds.
In the medieval times, labour was insanely cheap. The expense back then would come mainly from the material used. Nowadays we are used to it being the other way around - the labour being expensie, and materials (comparatively) very cheap and (comparatively) accessible in abundance. What they often did in the actual history was re-using old maille pieces to make new ones. They would justmake the sleeves longer, wider, add some new rings, replace damaged ones, and toss it to the new owner for another 20 years of usage, effectively recycling pieces of already made armour.
@@AmarothEng Thanks, interesting comment! True, but materials mean also labor. Everything is labor after all. Someone had to find iron ore, coal, extract them, smelt, create steel links, etc.
Historical speeking, chainmail cost more than plated mail. When it came to creating mail and any armor, it took months, even years. A whole small village will come together and pull their resources to create one piece of armor a year. Could only imagen what it would take to make kings mail, which means more smaller tight rings that's double layerred.
Das ist so unglaublich fein. So viele Arbeitsschritte mehr und dann auch so viel fiddeliger. Diese arbeit ist unfassbar beeindruckend. Zum Glück ist es ein kleines Stück.
@@Ironskin You show how to make each individual ring but then cut to an assembled portion of these rings without showing how you were able to assemble the rings after they were already riveted closed Why did you *refuse* to show the assembly process ?
@@earthlingjohn Think about it again. You can close some of the rings, for example the "middle" ones of each section so you only have to attach several open rings to one closed one and THEN rivet them shut. So you rivet some of them shut before so you can attach open ones to those.
@@Husky_Joe Who TF are you ? Question was not addressed to *you* Read question again. Question asked about *assembly process* and yes, I understand completely that rings must be open prior to assembly and riveting. The video showed clearly how a single ring is riveted but not the *assembly process* . One closed ring appears to need at least four rings attached and it would have been helpful to see the process of how the small section was assembled
Ok that ring winding jig at the beginning was so straight forward and cool! I wonder if they had things like it back in history, i can see it, since its was very time cosuming to make mail.
I use to work on machinery that made this stuff but it would feed in the wire, cut, form, insert into other rings, then weld in place. We had a joiner for well joining larger pieces and a machine that made sheets with a non welded brass ring placed into the form of a pattern. Could easily rip your patterns out then use a joiner. We used several different types of stainless steel. Mostly 316L, though we messed around with several types of Stainless Steel. We also had a machine that did the exact same thing but made the rings from Titanium wire. Could easily refit the machine to make larger or smaller rings with different diameter wires. Could make a full body suit in a day from 1 machine. We all know Titanium is lighter but wow... the difference between wearing full stainless steel mail versus titanium mail always blew my mind. I left the company while they were designing Mail designed for the ocean and protective against shark attacks. Biggest issue wasn't the strength of the material but finding a way to dampen or prevent the compression forces from the bite. Even if the teeth didn't pierce the armor it could crush the bone through sheer strength. Not sure if they ever came up with a prototype and final version. I have never found it online so I guess not. I have since thought up a few ideas that would be worth testing. I cannot imagine doing it this way and or how they did it in a galaxy far far away. I have thought of making my own machine to produce mail of different materials and custom ordered at a fair price since it can be made so fast and easy.
@@haholaer4058 Absolutely. I have Blueprints for the Machines though I have created my own modern version. I think there are some technologies to play with. Well not only would you make money from this initial idea. It could have applications in other fields. With new materials that can change their properties based on environmental properties. An Idea developed here may create a better type of medical stint. I am not saying that would happen. Just an idea of how ideas can cross fields. Definitely needs a good brainstorming session with several good minds. I personally love Think Tanks. Few Mesh machines and the right people you could be rich. Even now their is plenty of room in the market to move into making all kinds of stuff from gloves to suits. I have thought about making a few machines. Enough of my rambling. Happy you enjoyed the idea. It would be fun.
I can only imagine how people made this at some shop back when it was popular as armor... imagine spending days, weeks, months doing nothing but snipping rings, or smashing the rings flat, or punching the rivet holes, or riveting them together. The sheer monotony and time spent must have been incredible for the poor people who did this for a living. I wonder if these jobs would have been left to unskilled laborers or foisted upon apprentices in the shop...
I've been thinking of making a jacket with chainmail like use multilayered linen and canvas as a base and sew on chainmail as the top layer give it a turtle neck type collar for neck protection and smaller rings would make great knife protection.
I counted the amount of rings that he showed at the end. Then I used that to figure out the approximate number of rings it would take of that size to just cover the fingers, not even the hands, which is about 2,600 rings.
That number is too high. I counted 12 rings for one segment of one finger front only. Lets say that is 15 to be safe. There are 15 segments on front of hand (including thumb) and 15 on back of hand for a total of 30 segments. 30 segments x 15 rings each = 450 rings for 5 fingers of one hand. 900 rings for both hands. 900 x 2 for including palms and hands upto wrist = 1800 rings for both hands approximately. If you increase size of ring, its less. If you increase size of hand its more. I'm basing it on a man's hand in video.
One thing that is always left out in such videos: How did they make the wire? Today wire is drawn by big machinery, but how did they transform a lump of iron into a thin wire in the middle ages?
It was also pulled through a dye like today , there is a chanel called "how to make everything" that has a great video on how wire was made historicaly
Armourer to Apprentice: Ok, so you see how I make the rings and rivet them together, right? Do you have any questions so far? Apprentice: No sir, I think I've got it. Armourer: Alright son, make 20,000 of those, then get back to me. Apprentice: [GAK!!!] [Falls over] Armourer: Hmm, I wonder what's wrong with him...🤔
A joy to behold, thank you so much for sharingyour work with us,a real master armourer, just like in the old tales. Respectfully, i believe you could make a fine profit in making and selling the tools needed to make these things. The tongs you shewed on a related video, are well beyond the ability of country smiths to be able to make. Your tools look(in terms of quality) like the ones that farriers have, those kind are all custon made. A decent set of tongs STARTS at $200.
Hey, so I've been making butted maille for a while now, and upon seeing your channel and website, I've decided to start making riveted. I've got a few questions regarding it; -When I try to flatten the overlapping part of the ring with a hammer, the overlap sorta pops off. Is there any way to prevent this? -What gauge of wire would you recommend using, both for the rings and the rivets? -Would annealing the rivets make any difference in the riveting process?
Hi Rusted Shank. - That is a common problem with the overlap popping off during flattening. The key is to anneal before and to use only one or two hammer strikes. - The wire gauge has to fit to the ring diameter. In the other video I put a chart about suitable combinations: th-cam.com/video/BDVqZj99ZSU/w-d-xo.html - Annealing the rivets is a very good idea. It makes it much easier to crush the rivets. - Furthermore I wrote a guide with questions and answers about the most frequent obstacles in making mail. You find it here: www.ironskin.com/product/ironskins-guide-to-making-riveted-chainmail/
Ya so I said that after having the first one punch but now I can't get through them.....5 punched 4 of them split. Not the needle just slides off regardless of the tip I file it too..... Ugh. Maybe I'll order pre done crappy ones and throw half of them out..... Still need something to do so I'm 15 percent complete a 4 in 1 butted glove. For sword handling and learning.bive never worn iether so I'm ass u me ing, that riveted may feel bumpy on skin. I know it's not worn that way. But, for non combat applications, butted I would thing would be smoother overall on the person. Maile socks and ugh .......... I don't know. I've ordered a rivet tool from battle merchant. Andnin a couple weeks probly rings too.
I was listening to a history podcast about medieval times and apparently it took 4 armor smiths 18 months together to do a chain mail shirt. Another detail, it said a helmet costed as much as a sword spear and shield together while a chain mail shirt costed as much as all of that combined! (Source - Aesir Dan Carlin)
It depends on the period, but your prices seem to correspond to Carolingian times. Mail was expensive, but not THAT expensive, costing 12 solidii on average, as much as about 10-12 cows or bulls (one year old). The production time seem doubtful, if it took 4 professionals (even if it was actually one master armorer with some 3 journeymen/helpers) 1,5 year of work, it would have to be way more expensive. Not to mention rarer, while it was fairly common among knights and even wealthier infantrymen, not to mention widely exported (even despite laws forbidding export harshly).
No, I think this is much better the way he does it. That lip gives it a handmade look and more texture. Yours would look machine made and too perfect. The eye abhors perfect symmetry. A little off is very pleasing to the eye. No human face is perfectly symmetrical, ever. Each side is slightly different from the other side.
@@mjremy2605 no, it's quite the opposite. The original Roman links are very quasi-round. The flattening is what gives it a machine made, soda-can tab look. It's not about what *you* think looks pleasing, it's about being historically accurate to the originals, which are INCREDIBLY well made.
It occurs to me that blacksmiths and chain mail specialists of that day didn’t do it that way for fun. They did it that way because they didn’t have the tools to do the job easier and faster. Like a drill press and drills. Like a small press or vise. I like the end product, but I would like it even more if it only took two weeks instead of six months…
At that size, a press or drill would be slower and more fiddly than crushing and punching by hand. The biggest speed improvements I can see would be in mechanising the ring twisting/cutting/closing, and even then it'd need to be automated, at which point just automate the whole thing, which has been done with butted and welded mail. The riveting introduces a new complexity but not an insurmountable one. Anyway my point is mostly that power tools only really help one stage of this, and hinder the rest.
Im glad I found this channel! I never really knew how chainmail was made. If i made a hundred rings (of this size) a day without connecting them, how many days would it take to make enough for a coiff? It’s a rhetorical question, but it really shows the amount of work and time that went into armor.
I did a calculation based on a Google search stating it takes on average 22,100 rings to make a chainmail shirt. Assuming 5 minutes to produce x1 riveted ring: 22,100 rings x 5 mins = 110,500 mins 110,500 mins/60 mins = 1,841 hrs 1,841 hrs / 2 hrs per day = 920 days 920 days / 365 days per year = 2 1/2 years
If you are not going into battle and will not have arrows shot at you, and it is for decoration only, make the rings much bigger. You can sew some textured fabric on the back for a richer effect. www.fabric.com Making the rings is easy - coil and cut. Then hammer them, anneal them, and at this point, just do a few every day - punch flat, punch hole. That is it. Until you link and rivet for final build.
2 cosas 1- si haces que el corte de la anilla este solapado desde el principio solo tendras que aplanar y no desplazar hacia dentro. 2- solo se remachaba 1 de cada 4 anillas .
Why not using either a funnel-shaped object to make the flattened ring ends overlap, or two pairs of tongs? You could also cut the wire in such a way that the ends of a single ring would already overlap.
Q: Amazing work, will you have a tutorial for the coiling tool? (Spanish) A: (Spanish) Puedes ver que es una herramienta bastante simple y hacer la misma. La otra opción es usar un taladro para sostener la varilla y manos enguantadas para alimentar el alambre al taladro. Muchos tutoriales sobre eso en TH-cam: busque 'Hacer anillos de salto'. Esta plantilla de herramientas que hizo es una pieza de madera con una hendidura en el interior por la que se alimenta el alambre. Sale por la parte inferior, pasa por un lazo (tornillo de ojo) y se enrolla directamente sobre la varilla de metal. La varilla se gira a mano. Cortó los anillos con alicates, lo que no se recomienda para anillos de enganche: se necesita una sierra de joyero fina (consiga la de estilo alemán por $ 14 en Amazon) para cortar los anillos para hacer anillos de enganche de cadena. Creo que para los anillos de malla de cadena no importa, ya que de todos modos estás aplanando esos extremos. Para anillos de salto sí importa. Después de cortarlo, lo martillas un poco para que quede plano. En este punto, debe recocer (calentar) los anillos para ablandarlos, luego perforarlos y luego perforar un agujero en los extremos superpuestos. Tiene otros videos para mostrar estos procesos. A: (English) You can see its a pretty simple tool and make the same one. The other option is to use a drill to hold the rod and gloved hands to feed the wire to the drill. Many tutorials on that on TH-cam - search for 'Making Jump Rings'. This tool jig he made is a piece of wood with a slit inside that the wire feeds into. It comes out at the bottom, goes through a loop (eye screw) and coils directly onto the metal rod. The rod is turned by hand. He cut the rings with pliers which is not recommended for jump rings - you need a fine Jewelers Saw (get the German Style one for $14 on Amazon) to cut the rings for making chain jump rings. I think for chainmaille rings it does not matter as you are flattening those ends anyway. For jump rings it does matter. After you cut it, you hammer it a bit to make it lay flat. At this point you should anneal (heat up) the rings to soften them, then punch them flat, then punch a hole in the overlapping ends. He has other videos to show these processes.
My recently deceased wife spent countless hours knotting, crocheting and making beaded jewelry over the 52 years we were married. It was what she did to keep her hands busy. Somebody, somewhere must have developed a way to mass produce this stuff. If not it would be a great industrial engineering project for same college student. I wonder if it would be sold by the pound or by the yard in an antique fabric store. Be neat to go to a store, or Amazon, and order 20 feet x 2 feet of 1/4 in 1/16 in chain fabric. Then you could tailor a hauberk to fit. Could become the latest fashion in a knife infested city.
Hi. What technique of construction you prefer? The one where you get the ring closed and overlapped after flattening the ring ends or the overlap cut and than flattened ring? What are the advantages and disadvantages for each, as for me, flattening the overlapped ring seems to leat to a misalignment after a punch.
I guess that would make heavy shirt than an ordinary mail shirt, right? For I have made a small mesh that contains 8,6 mm diameter rings and saw it would be heavier.
I cant tell what type of metal that is but you don't want to use fencing wire, some metals poison you through moisture and contact with the skin. I only use surgical stainless steel. After looking at your website it looks like you use iron but this stuff has a coating...
I wouldn't recommend it. It is much easier to work with iron and the tools last longer. Steel is hard on your wrists when you work with it and it quickly wears down your tools. Regarding the look, it is almost identical.
made chain mail clothes in our garage machine shop years back, Great looking Swim Wear on the right lady. our system was not like this or historically "correct?" other than we believed our ancestors "Historically" wanted to do their work economically, efficiently, and as FAST as Possible with the Best Results for their materials, raw energy, and work spent. this many detailed steps would? Did drive "me" Bat yhit Crazy! ADHD or knot? looks Very COOL!
I was wondering, how effective would the chainmail be if the individual chains were welded instead of riveted? Would it be possible to do with a modern welder or would it be too finicky?
@@Ironskin Tho its easy for us to get steel wire at n uniform gauge. Not sure how they did it in the ancient times, it looks rather super time consuming
I make welded chainmail. you can make your own resistance welder from a microwave oven transformer, or some websites sell ready made units. if you intend to go with wire that is not "rebar" you have to first strip off the zinc coating by soaking the rings overnight in vinegar. but be warned, the reaction produces pure hydrogen gas.
I've decided to make a number of complaints of a project of mine (gauntlets but with metal on the inside as well; won't go into anymore detail) out of maille and because of how small I have to make the links (.045in wire, .20 in id. Riveted... thinking of going .035in wire in some places where the .045 gets too tight to work) ... I've got a little bit mad from it all. Can't imagine make a full shirt from something that small. Gloves, yes; sleeves, no.
Great video, but you didn't show how to join the links together. I guess that you make a bunch of closed loops and then do some joiners but interesting
Yes, you close half of the rings and then join them - first in lines then in sheets. At the end of this video I show it: th-cam.com/video/vtSbo6Hyv5w/w-d-xo.html
The way he strung them together takes 65 rings at 5 mm each to cover front third of one finger. 3:51 - There are 5 columns of7 rings each. 5 x 7 = 35 rings. There are 5 columns of 6 rings each to interconnect the rows of 7 rings. 5 x 6 = 30. 30 + 35 = 65 rings for each finger segment - front only. Back takes another 65 rings. There are 30 finger segments front and back on one hand. 60 segments on both hands. 60 x 60 = 3600 rings. This is for fingers only. Add another 3600 rings for the two hands up to wrist. 3600 x 2 = 7200 rings at 5 mm each for a man's hand .😵💫😵💫😵💫
It's mainly for historic accuracy. But in fact the drill bits break often and with some practice punching is even faster. That depends a bit on the size of the rings of course.
I am using a small No.20 drill bit and a drill to make some small links... but i am having problems getting a proper and small enough punch to make the hole for the rivet... i am working with .042 stainless aircraft steel lock wire, have any suggestions?
I recommend not to use stainless steel. It is too hard fro making riveted rings. Use iron wire instead. The punch can be any hardened rod of metal. A hardened nail would do the job.
@@Ironskin so i have been working with aluminum links as well, to make a hoodie... but I think I screwed up the entire process, because at the moment it looks like "flabby folds" have taken over the coif portion of the hoodie... I'll have to post a picture for you to take a look. I do not know if having these folds is better or not
Impressive craftsmanship, much better than the shit they sell on eBay... However I think I’ll stick with eBay for now because I don’t have the time for this
Honestly I was expecting to see a full hauberk. Of course these small rings look impressive, nonetheless I'm not sure it would act like an iron skin and be more comfortable than rings of regular size. Sorry for my skepticism.
I'm tailoring a hauberk with 5.5mm at the moment. So eventually you'll get to see something similar on Insta. Larger rings behave like a net. Smaller rings behave more like fabric. It also depends on the rings thickness. How comfortable it is depends mainly on the anatomical tailoring of the mail garment.
@@Ironskin thank you for the answer, I'll be waiting for the result of your magnificent job. What about comfortability in mail maid of small ring I was thinking rings could prevent each other from proper flexibility. I mean when you bend your arm (for example) rings stick on each other and prevent your movement. Sorry, can't explain better what did I mean cause I'm not native speaker, excuse me.
From what I gather, something like this kinda IS the "regular size". Most finds of Roman mail are at least 6mm or less in ID, similarly to Gjermundbu mail, as well as rings from Coppergate and Birka Garrison. It's just that most of mail reconstructed today is of bigger rings variety.
technology is wrong. you have lots of sharp edges after bending a ring, that will rip your clothes. also after riveting some of the ring are broken. all you need is to cut the spring not in a straight line, but in 45 degrees as a spiral. so, the rings will be overlapped automatically, then anneal, then smash them. also use flat punch, not sharp. it will push out a nice round piece of metal without breaking the ring.
I've done about 30,000 rings of chain in my life, none of it riveted. I can tell you from experience that there is a fine line between a hobby and a mental illness.... and I'm convinced that riveting, ESPECIALLY WITH SUCH TINY RINGS, crosses that line. =]
That train has passed for me a long time ago. :D
@@Ironskin 🤣🤣🤣
Да ладно. Я больше 2 миллионов клепаных колец сделал и вполне здоровый)
looks like a running Theam? a stop on our trip.
did that, now we are done! now it's plating, passivation, bluing, gun smithing, and making historic Dark Powder(as easy as cookies) for said historic arms
amen
Insanely time-consuming. I am not surprised armour was so expensive back then and even these days it can be expensively, especially historically accurate builds.
I am pretty sure they improved their methods to make it faster.
EXPENSIVE, not EXPENSIVELY.
Yes, its a labor of love made manually. But there are automated ways to make it nowadays.
In the medieval times, labour was insanely cheap. The expense back then would come mainly from the material used. Nowadays we are used to it being the other way around - the labour being expensie, and materials (comparatively) very cheap and (comparatively) accessible in abundance. What they often did in the actual history was re-using old maille pieces to make new ones. They would justmake the sleeves longer, wider, add some new rings, replace damaged ones, and toss it to the new owner for another 20 years of usage, effectively recycling pieces of already made armour.
@@AmarothEng Thanks, interesting comment! True, but materials mean also labor. Everything is labor after all. Someone had to find iron ore, coal, extract them, smelt, create steel links, etc.
Historical speeking, chainmail cost more than plated mail. When it came to creating mail and any armor, it took months, even years. A whole small village will come together and pull their resources to create one piece of armor a year. Could only imagen what it would take to make kings mail, which means more smaller tight rings that's double layerred.
“Armor like an IRON SKIN...”
i get it
Now imagine an entire shirt or coif out of that! That would truly be iron skin!
I have a shirt of welded 5mm and it's pretty amazing.
Now you're looking at upwards of fifty thousand rings
Fantastic, as soon as school finishes in June I will start making the rings
same but now the uk is on lock down it is as soon as i have money lol
Haha same thoughts here
The amount of patience required here is epic. You are an inspiration.
Das ist so unglaublich fein. So viele Arbeitsschritte mehr und dann auch so viel fiddeliger.
Diese arbeit ist unfassbar beeindruckend.
Zum Glück ist es ein kleines Stück.
I gave this a thumbs up before watching it ... anyone trying to make chain mail armor by hand deserves a thumbs up ffs. No seriously .... they DO
:D Thank you for your unconditional support!
@@Ironskin
You show how to make each individual ring but then cut to an assembled portion of these rings without showing how you were able to assemble the rings after they were already riveted closed
Why did you *refuse* to show the assembly process ?
@@earthlingjohn Think about it again. You can close some of the rings, for example the "middle" ones of each section so you only have to attach several open rings to one closed one and THEN rivet them shut. So you rivet some of them shut before so you can attach open ones to those.
@@Husky_Joe
Who TF are you ? Question was not addressed to *you*
Read question again. Question asked about *assembly process* and yes, I understand completely that rings must be open prior to assembly and riveting. The video showed clearly how a single ring is riveted but not the *assembly process* . One closed ring appears to need at least four rings attached and it would have been helpful to see the process of how the small section was assembled
@@earthlingjohn why are you so salty use your head
I can’t wait to get started on thi
Ok that ring winding jig at the beginning was so straight forward and cool! I wonder if they had things like it back in history, i can see it, since its was very time cosuming to make mail.
I was really impressed by that as well. Going to make something similar on my 3d printer for use in various wire coil winding projects.
I use to work on machinery that made this stuff but it would feed in the wire, cut, form, insert into other rings, then weld in place. We had a joiner for well joining larger pieces and a machine that made sheets with a non welded brass ring placed into the form of a pattern. Could easily rip your patterns out then use a joiner. We used several different types of stainless steel. Mostly 316L, though we messed around with several types of Stainless Steel. We also had a machine that did the exact same thing but made the rings from Titanium wire. Could easily refit the machine to make larger or smaller rings with different diameter wires. Could make a full body suit in a day from 1 machine. We all know Titanium is lighter but wow... the difference between wearing full stainless steel mail versus titanium mail always blew my mind. I left the company while they were designing Mail designed for the ocean and protective against shark attacks. Biggest issue wasn't the strength of the material but finding a way to dampen or prevent the compression forces from the bite. Even if the teeth didn't pierce the armor it could crush the bone through sheer strength. Not sure if they ever came up with a prototype and final version. I have never found it online so I guess not. I have since thought up a few ideas that would be worth testing.
I cannot imagine doing it this way and or how they did it in a galaxy far far away. I have thought of making my own machine to produce mail of different materials and custom ordered at a fair price since it can be made so fast and easy.
that sounds interesting as fuck. might be an idea worth exploring more, sounds like you could make some good money from it 😶
@@haholaer4058 Absolutely. I have Blueprints for the Machines though I have created my own modern version.
I think there are some technologies to play with. Well not only would you make money from this initial idea. It could have applications in other fields. With new materials that can change their properties based on environmental properties.
An Idea developed here may create a better type of medical stint. I am not saying that would happen. Just an idea of how ideas can cross fields.
Definitely needs a good brainstorming session with several good minds. I personally love Think Tanks.
Few Mesh machines and the right people you could be rich. Even now their is plenty of room in the market to move into making all kinds of stuff from gloves to suits.
I have thought about making a few machines. Enough of my rambling. Happy you enjoyed the idea. It would be fun.
Absolutely beautiful work. I commend your tenacity.
I can only imagine how people made this at some shop back when it was popular as armor... imagine spending days, weeks, months doing nothing but snipping rings, or smashing the rings flat, or punching the rivet holes, or riveting them together. The sheer monotony and time spent must have been incredible for the poor people who did this for a living. I wonder if these jobs would have been left to unskilled laborers or foisted upon apprentices in the shop...
I've been thinking of making a jacket with chainmail like use multilayered linen and canvas as a base and sew on chainmail as the top layer give it a turtle neck type collar for neck protection and smaller rings would make great knife protection.
Wow! Ive spent hundreds of hours working on butted mail. Makes me truely appreciate the craftsmanship of real riveted mail.
Lol I was surprised how much nicer feeling going from 9mm to 6mm is I could only imagine wearing some 5mm
I counted the amount of rings that he showed at the end. Then I used that to figure out the approximate number of rings it would take of that size to just cover the fingers, not even the hands, which is about 2,600 rings.
That number is too high. I counted 12 rings for one segment of one finger front only. Lets say that is 15 to be safe.
There are 15 segments on front of hand (including thumb) and 15 on back of hand for a total of 30 segments.
30 segments x 15 rings each = 450 rings for 5 fingers of one hand. 900 rings for both hands.
900 x 2 for including palms and hands upto wrist = 1800 rings for both hands approximately. If you increase size of ring, its less. If you increase size of hand its more. I'm basing it on a man's hand in video.
One thing that is always left out in such videos: How did they make the wire? Today wire is drawn by big machinery, but how did they transform a lump of iron into a thin wire in the middle ages?
It was also pulled through a dye like today , there is a chanel called "how to make everything" that has a great video on how wire was made historicaly
Yup, they hammered it into a rod and then pulled it through progressively smaller dies in order to draw it out
This is honestly the most amazing thing I have ever seen
Armourer to Apprentice: Ok, so you see how I make the rings and rivet them together, right? Do you have any questions so far?
Apprentice: No sir, I think I've got it.
Armourer: Alright son, make 20,000 of those, then get back to me.
Apprentice: [GAK!!!] [Falls over]
Armourer: Hmm, I wonder what's wrong with him...🤔
ACK*
3 years later and the result is either nervous breakdown or nearly complete chainmail sock
This is the human equivalent of the "micro mail" from Discworld novels.
I love that winding tool!
A joy to behold, thank you so much for sharingyour work with us,a real master armourer, just like in the old tales. Respectfully, i believe you could make a fine profit in making and selling the tools needed to make these things. The tongs you shewed on a related video, are well beyond the ability of country smiths to be able to make. Your tools look(in terms of quality) like the ones that farriers have, those kind are all custon made. A decent set of tongs STARTS at $200.
The editing is great!
Legend has it this man is still making his mail shirt.
Huh. I knew I should expect the Grab That Auto 5 music in unexpected places, but was still surprised at it
Hey, so I've been making butted maille for a while now, and upon seeing your channel and website, I've decided to start making riveted. I've got a few questions regarding it;
-When I try to flatten the overlapping part of the ring with a hammer, the overlap sorta pops off. Is there any way to prevent this?
-What gauge of wire would you recommend using, both for the rings and the rivets?
-Would annealing the rivets make any difference in the riveting process?
Hi Rusted Shank.
- That is a common problem with the overlap popping off during flattening. The key is to anneal before and to use only one or two hammer strikes.
- The wire gauge has to fit to the ring diameter. In the other video I put a chart about suitable combinations: th-cam.com/video/BDVqZj99ZSU/w-d-xo.html
- Annealing the rivets is a very good idea. It makes it much easier to crush the rivets.
- Furthermore I wrote a guide with questions and answers about the most frequent obstacles in making mail. You find it here: www.ironskin.com/product/ironskins-guide-to-making-riveted-chainmail/
The reply to this question...earned my respect and subscription
I'm using a hockey puck to punch the holes for the rivets. Thanks for showing this.
Ya so I said that after having the first one punch but now I can't get through them.....5 punched 4 of them split. Not the needle just slides off regardless of the tip I file it too..... Ugh. Maybe I'll order pre done crappy ones and throw half of them out..... Still need something to do so I'm 15 percent complete a 4 in 1 butted glove. For sword handling and learning.bive never worn iether so I'm ass u me ing, that riveted may feel bumpy on skin. I know it's not worn that way. But, for non combat applications, butted I would thing would be smoother overall on the person. Maile socks and ugh .......... I don't know. I've ordered a rivet tool from battle merchant. Andnin a couple weeks probly rings too.
I was listening to a history podcast about medieval times and apparently it took 4 armor smiths 18 months together to do a chain mail shirt. Another detail, it said a helmet costed as much as a sword spear and shield together while a chain mail shirt costed as much as all of that combined! (Source - Aesir Dan Carlin)
It depends on the period, but your prices seem to correspond to Carolingian times. Mail was expensive, but not THAT expensive, costing 12 solidii on average, as much as about 10-12 cows or bulls (one year old). The production time seem doubtful, if it took 4 professionals (even if it was actually one master armorer with some 3 journeymen/helpers) 1,5 year of work, it would have to be way more expensive. Not to mention rarer, while it was fairly common among knights and even wealthier infantrymen, not to mention widely exported (even despite laws forbidding export harshly).
@Lścibor Thats right, I think these were the tribal prices too so maybe they had to pay more? hopefully that makes more sense
This is some epic stuff. If it were a WoW, item, it would have extra armor as one of its stats.
I've made lots of butted mail before and I'm thinking about making something with riveted mail. I also think I will need a lot more beer hahaha!
Good thing i saw this video. I was about to spend way too much time over engineering a jig.
Nice work. The trick though is to get it with the link remaining almost completely round where the rivet is set through, like in the Roman originals.
No, I think this is much better the way he does it. That lip gives it a handmade look and more texture. Yours would look machine made and too perfect. The eye abhors perfect symmetry. A little off is very pleasing to the eye. No human face is perfectly symmetrical, ever. Each side is slightly different from the other side.
@@mjremy2605 no, it's quite the opposite. The original Roman links are very quasi-round. The flattening is what gives it a machine made, soda-can tab look.
It's not about what *you* think looks pleasing, it's about being historically accurate to the originals, which are INCREDIBLY well made.
I feel the soul crushing defeat with each one
please make a full size piece out of that. Would be awesome to see
:)
It occurs to me that blacksmiths and chain mail specialists of that day didn’t do it that way for fun. They did it that way because they didn’t have the tools to do the job easier and faster. Like a drill press and drills. Like a small press or vise. I like the end product, but I would like it even more if it only took two weeks instead of six months…
At that size, a press or drill would be slower and more fiddly than crushing and punching by hand. The biggest speed improvements I can see would be in mechanising the ring twisting/cutting/closing, and even then it'd need to be automated, at which point just automate the whole thing, which has been done with butted and welded mail. The riveting introduces a new complexity but not an insurmountable one.
Anyway my point is mostly that power tools only really help one stage of this, and hinder the rest.
@@Aussie_Archmage Thank you for your comment! (I’m not exactly sure why, but I agree with your assessment.😎)
Im glad I found this channel! I never really knew how chainmail was made. If i made a hundred rings (of this size) a day without connecting them, how many days would it take to make enough for a coiff? It’s a rhetorical question, but it really shows the amount of work and time that went into armor.
I did a calculation based on a Google search stating it takes on average 22,100 rings to make a chainmail shirt. Assuming 5 minutes to produce x1 riveted ring:
22,100 rings x 5 mins = 110,500 mins
110,500 mins/60 mins = 1,841 hrs
1,841 hrs / 2 hrs per day = 920 days
920 days / 365 days per year = 2 1/2 years
If you are not going into battle and will not have arrows shot at you, and it is for decoration only, make the rings much bigger. You can sew some textured fabric on the back for a richer effect. www.fabric.com
Making the rings is easy - coil and cut. Then hammer them, anneal them, and at this point, just do a few every day - punch flat, punch hole. That is it. Until you link and rivet for final build.
2 cosas
1- si haces que el corte de la anilla este solapado desde el principio solo tendras que aplanar y no desplazar hacia dentro.
2- solo se remachaba 1 de cada 4 anillas .
This is why I weld my rings
I never knew the rings were riveted like that, makes sense though. Nice work. I could see this being relaxing in a way.
That was great
Awesome work. Thanks for sharing. Did you make the tools as well? They look like fun projects.
Thank you for sharing this passion. Yes, I made the tools myself.
Hey there, could you make a vidéo about what each step do to your mail et describing how you do it with some tips for beginners ?
I was honestly thinking about making a mail shirt of of 14 gauge butted wrings becuase i don’t have the patience for 16 gauge riveted wrings
Nice video
Why not using either a funnel-shaped object to make the flattened ring ends overlap, or two pairs of tongs? You could also cut the wire in such a way that the ends of a single ring would already overlap.
Seems easier and faster to invent a machine to do this than actualy make a one full chainmail
I just started making my own chainmaille and I can say for certain now...I'm a glutton for punishment
Hello great work ! how long time did it take you to make this ?
Hi, this took about a day to make it.
Sorprendente trabajo, tendrás algún tutorial para la herramienta de hacer coils
Q: Amazing work, will you have a tutorial for the coiling tool? (Spanish)
A: (Spanish) Puedes ver que es una herramienta bastante simple y hacer la misma. La otra opción es usar un taladro para sostener la varilla y manos enguantadas para alimentar el alambre al taladro. Muchos tutoriales sobre eso en TH-cam: busque 'Hacer anillos de salto'.
Esta plantilla de herramientas que hizo es una pieza de madera con una hendidura en el interior por la que se alimenta el alambre. Sale por la parte inferior, pasa por un lazo (tornillo de ojo) y se enrolla directamente sobre la varilla de metal. La varilla se gira a mano.
Cortó los anillos con alicates, lo que no se recomienda para anillos de enganche: se necesita una sierra de joyero fina (consiga la de estilo alemán por $ 14 en Amazon) para cortar los anillos para hacer anillos de enganche de cadena. Creo que para los anillos de malla de cadena no importa, ya que de todos modos estás aplanando esos extremos. Para anillos de salto sí importa.
Después de cortarlo, lo martillas un poco para que quede plano.
En este punto, debe recocer (calentar) los anillos para ablandarlos, luego perforarlos y luego perforar un agujero en los extremos superpuestos. Tiene otros videos para mostrar estos procesos.
A: (English) You can see its a pretty simple tool and make the same one. The other option is to use a drill to hold the rod and gloved hands to feed the wire to the drill. Many tutorials on that on TH-cam - search for 'Making Jump Rings'.
This tool jig he made is a piece of wood with a slit inside that the wire feeds into. It comes out at the bottom, goes through a loop (eye screw) and coils directly onto the metal rod. The rod is turned by hand.
He cut the rings with pliers which is not recommended for jump rings - you need a fine Jewelers Saw (get the German Style one for $14 on Amazon) to cut the rings for making chain jump rings. I think for chainmaille rings it does not matter as you are flattening those ends anyway. For jump rings it does matter.
After you cut it, you hammer it a bit to make it lay flat.
At this point you should anneal (heat up) the rings to soften them, then punch them flat, then punch a hole in the overlapping ends. He has other videos to show these processes.
My recently deceased wife spent countless hours knotting, crocheting and making beaded jewelry over the 52 years we were married. It was what she did to keep her hands busy.
Somebody, somewhere must have developed a way to mass produce this stuff. If not it would be a great industrial engineering project for same college student. I wonder if it would be sold by the pound or by the yard in an antique fabric store. Be neat to go to a store, or Amazon, and order 20 feet x 2 feet of 1/4 in 1/16 in chain fabric. Then you could tailor a hauberk to fit. Could become the latest fashion in a knife infested city.
great stuff 😁
Hi. What technique of construction you prefer? The one where you get the ring closed and overlapped after flattening the ring ends or the overlap cut and than flattened ring?
What are the advantages and disadvantages for each, as for me, flattening the overlapped ring seems to leat to a misalignment after a punch.
This is awesome....
Can scholar gladiatoria put a rondel dagger through it though ?
I guess that would make heavy shirt than an ordinary mail shirt, right? For I have made a small mesh that contains 8,6 mm diameter rings and saw it would be heavier.
Awesome skills, mein bruder!
Missed a few steps there bud..
How do you keep the metal from tearing when driving the holes for the rivets? Its so thin I couldn't imagine the headache.
I cant tell what type of metal that is but you don't want to use fencing wire, some metals poison you through moisture and contact with the skin. I only use surgical stainless steel. After looking at your website it looks like you use iron but this stuff has a coating...
That's right! I use iron without any coating. As you siad, especially Nickel coating is bad on the skin.
I need to ask, is it good to use Steel wire instead of iron wire to make riveted chainmail, and it is going to look good?
I wouldn't recommend it. It is much easier to work with iron and the tools last longer. Steel is hard on your wrists when you work with it and it quickly wears down your tools. Regarding the look, it is almost identical.
Historically, I’m assuming they’d harden and temper these things at some point in the process?
Any insight on that? Kinda lost where you’d do it
made chain mail clothes in our garage machine shop years back, Great looking Swim Wear on the right lady. our system was not like this or historically "correct?" other than we believed our ancestors "Historically" wanted to do their work economically, efficiently, and as FAST as Possible with the Best Results for their materials, raw energy, and work spent. this many detailed steps would? Did drive "me" Bat yhit Crazy! ADHD or knot? looks Very COOL!
I was wondering, how effective would the chainmail be if the individual chains were welded instead of riveted? Would it be possible to do with a modern welder or would it be too finicky?
Epic
and thats why its so expensive . just saying because some people complain about the price
So, how do you rivet those rings that form the links. You can't rivet them before they hold the riveted links together, right?
Can't i simply use electronic soldering?
Sure thing, but it can be tricky as well. Riveted rings are the historic solution to it.
@@Ironskin Tho its easy for us to get steel wire at n uniform gauge. Not sure how they did it in the ancient times, it looks rather super time consuming
I make welded chainmail. you can make your own resistance welder from a microwave oven transformer, or some websites sell ready made units.
if you intend to go with wire that is not "rebar" you have to first strip off the zinc coating by soaking the rings overnight in vinegar. but be warned, the reaction produces pure hydrogen gas.
I've decided to make a number of complaints of a project of mine (gauntlets but with metal on the inside as well; won't go into anymore detail) out of maille and because of how small I have to make the links (.045in wire, .20 in id. Riveted... thinking of going .035in wire in some places where the .045 gets too tight to work) ... I've got a little bit mad from it all.
Can't imagine make a full shirt from something that small.
Gloves, yes; sleeves, no.
Great video, but you didn't show how to join the links together. I guess that you make a bunch of closed loops and then do some joiners but interesting
Yes, you close half of the rings and then join them - first in lines then in sheets. At the end of this video I show it: th-cam.com/video/vtSbo6Hyv5w/w-d-xo.html
I'm using 4mm jump rings from Hobby Lobby. As of now, I have a nice tiny little rectangle.
can you link those riveting pliers?
www.ironskin.com/chainmail-tools-on-amazon/
what about spot welding? Does it weaken the joint too much? Just wondering why I don't see anyone using spot welding to close their rings.
Ты безумец, мужик, это безумие!
Yo esperaba ver la cota de malla completa se que es una chinga pero si la queria ver.
What gauge is the wire?
It's 1mm respectively 18 AWG.
But how'd he put them together
sick!
If only Frodo had this when Gollum bit his finger off.
Интересно какой вес вышел и как с подвижностью.
Madman.
Did not show joining the links
Neat but y not put a handle on your punch?
where can i get this wire??
hi, would it work if you do them with copper wires?
Sure, it does.
The way he strung them together takes 65 rings at 5 mm each to cover front third of one finger.
3:51 - There are 5 columns of7 rings each. 5 x 7 = 35 rings.
There are 5 columns of 6 rings each to interconnect the rows of 7 rings. 5 x 6 = 30.
30 + 35 = 65 rings for each finger segment - front only. Back takes another 65 rings.
There are 30 finger segments front and back on one hand. 60 segments on both hands. 60 x 60 = 3600 rings.
This is for fingers only. Add another 3600 rings for the two hands up to wrist.
3600 x 2 = 7200 rings at 5 mm each for a man's hand .😵💫😵💫😵💫
Why don't you use drill to make holes in the rings? Is it for historical accuracy or making them by electric drill has some disadvantage?
It's mainly for historic accuracy. But in fact the drill bits break often and with some practice punching is even faster. That depends a bit on the size of the rings of course.
jerma spiderman music HAHAHAHA
looking through the comments to see if i was the only one to recognise the music as the same as jerma's ipad garbage games stream xD
I am using a small No.20 drill bit and a drill to make some small links... but i am having problems getting a proper and small enough punch to make the hole for the rivet... i am working with .042 stainless aircraft steel lock wire, have any suggestions?
I recommend not to use stainless steel. It is too hard fro making riveted rings. Use iron wire instead. The punch can be any hardened rod of metal. A hardened nail would do the job.
@@Ironskin thank you for the info
@@Ironskin so i have been working with aluminum links as well, to make a hoodie... but I think I screwed up the entire process, because at the moment it looks like "flabby folds" have taken over the coif portion of the hoodie... I'll have to post a picture for you to take a look. I do not know if having these folds is better or not
Impressive craftsmanship, much better than the shit they sell on eBay... However I think I’ll stick with eBay for now because I don’t have the time for this
Honestly I was expecting to see a full hauberk. Of course these small rings look impressive, nonetheless I'm not sure it would act like an iron skin and be more comfortable than rings of regular size. Sorry for my skepticism.
I'm tailoring a hauberk with 5.5mm at the moment. So eventually you'll get to see something similar on Insta. Larger rings behave like a net. Smaller rings behave more like fabric. It also depends on the rings thickness. How comfortable it is depends mainly on the anatomical tailoring of the mail garment.
@@Ironskin thank you for the answer, I'll be waiting for the result of your magnificent job. What about comfortability in mail maid of small ring I was thinking rings could prevent each other from proper flexibility. I mean when you bend your arm (for example) rings stick on each other and prevent your movement. Sorry, can't explain better what did I mean cause I'm not native speaker, excuse me.
From what I gather, something like this kinda IS the "regular size".
Most finds of Roman mail are at least 6mm or less in ID, similarly to Gjermundbu mail, as well as rings from Coppergate and Birka Garrison.
It's just that most of mail reconstructed today is of bigger rings variety.
COOL! :D
It works to protect?
It works against tickling, but not against bad jokes. ;-)
technology is wrong. you have lots of sharp edges after bending a ring, that will rip your clothes. also after riveting some of the ring are broken. all you need is to cut the spring not in a straight line, but in 45 degrees as a spiral. so, the rings will be overlapped automatically, then anneal, then smash them. also use flat punch, not sharp. it will push out a nice round piece of metal without breaking the ring.
Did you punch the holes in the mail with tungsten electrodes?
Actually it's just some scrap metal that I had available. I think it was a modern harened tool steel. Tungsten electrodes would likely be too brittle.
@@Ironskin okay thank you
Кропотливый труд! Настоящая кольчуга имеет и душу мастера! Оценим великолепный наряд - публикуй!
Ich würde durchdrehen wenn ich mir so ein ganzes Hemd bauen müsste…
What's gonna happen when the diameter less than 5mm?
Then people with straight jackets will come and bring you to the mental hospital. ;)
What was the diameter of the wire that you were using to make those rings?
1mm
@@Ironskin The wire you purchased was it already ductile/Soft?