I'mma be honest, the only reason I'd ever play MVM is to try and get Aussies, and if I've got a Pyro on my team making that go by quicker, well shit I might just send him a friend request
Yeah, I was gonna say wasn't the only reason people played MVM was for shiny weapons or the frying pan? If the mode is made easier and faster, I figured most people would be happy about it. I'm sure there's people out there that play MVM for fun, but if they're doing that they're probably already self imposing challenges and limits to up the difficulty.
Man I really wanted to get Team Fortress 2 and get into the shenanigans like friendly servers, crazy interactions and go bot bashing. But with the sorry state TF2 is in with bots that are not in MVM, script kiddies, toxicity and effing Tacobot I just can’t find myself to get in on all the fun that was the old TF2. For crying out loud, I got the remastered Dark Souls game on my Nintendo Switch just to have fun getting frustrated with the difficulty and the shot of dopamine from defeating the bosses in it.
The toxicity of MvM is a real shame and it goes down multiple levels. I tried adding some strategies for double mini-sentry to the TF2 wiki (which I know is sub optimal but it doesn't mean those strategies don't exist at all) but they were deleted outright, usually with an angry rant about promoting anti-meta.
Hi! I'm interested I'll never get the chance to really try it, but I've been trying to get a better idea than trying to pair them with the Frontier Justice; being more of a weird damage class and less of a utility
Begining in the mvm there was an urban legend minies dont proc busters so the team have less swet do defend the enginer... so as a low tour shithead i tought tahts a legit tacktick to bring 2 minies...
@@CGI_Lantern I'm assuming you now know better and that sentry buster will still spawn since it's based off of sentry damage, just that mini series get chewed through fast enough to the point where that damage trigger doesn't get met
@@Ushankan This is literally the problem. They start applying damage/kill values to their own self worth, so anything that does better with less effort undermines that. The best solution while keeping that mindset would be to say "damage/kills as ", because then pyro only competes with pyro for damage/kills.
I once got votekicked on the last wave of mvm for playing gas passer, they purposely waited until the end the kick me. Really changed my view on the gamemode as a whole and the people playing it.
This is why i've never played mvm and never will, each and every player who plays mvm is an a-hole, there's just those who admit being it and those who lie, every single player who ever played mvm even a single round is worse than Hitler, have a nice day.
Yeah that’s essentially part of it, but as stated in the video it’s also the fact that it undermines all of the things that the pyro had to actually LEARN and do well, Like avoiding taking damage and getting close up to deal damage back, dodging, movement is very important especially since the Pyro is a average move in class
Mvm pro people are worst than a hemorroid that is about to explode. I rather play with the worst weapon and see if I survive and make the run better than do the same to see if I get crap and an oportunity to get a golder bunch of pixels One time I played with an engi that ONLY PAID FOR THE MINI SENTRY GUN FOR ALL THE WAVES, and it was better than play with someone who needs to go outside
I dont blame you. Most mvm players I met are wholesome, but occasionally I meet some a-holes that contradict what they say and basically acts like a dipshit until they get what they want
Imagine being angry because you don't have anyone or anything to complain about or to because no one or thing is causing problems for you to be angry for. Anyone with that mindset can't be fucking happy & won't be even after everyone's miserable, fucking disgusting.
Why is there always some guy commenting this exact thing on every discussion about the gas passer in MvM “It’s just damage, you can’t care about balance in a PvE game”
While I agree that the gas passer is not a very well balanced weapon, it also works as a sort of a filter. If the team has a pyro using a gas passer that hasnt gotten kicked, chances are there are no toxic assholes in your team. That reason alone is enough for me to accept it.
That blacklist stuff is one of the most demented things I’ve seen from an FPS game, perhaps from any game with a multiplayer I’ve been aware of or played.
"Teach them how to use other loadouts so they know more."Mvm players: Nah "Bully them to the point that they stop playing all together" MvM players: Oh Hell yeah
Wait til you hear about what goes on in the high-end crafting/trading "community" in Path of Exile. Some of those turboneckbeards make tacobot seem relatively high functioning by comparison. I've legit had threats from people for undercutting them lmao
@@spaghettiboy1545 Why not blacklist people who use/create that website from getting good loot or locking said loot inside their invs? lol. Valve should do that. Abusive, hateful, toxic people losing their items by being locked out would be sufficient.
@@aandyherr817 No it should prank them by destroying their already earned aussies and all aussies they would have otherwise recieved. No good stuff, if you are gonna be complaining about a thing that makes good stuff easier to achieve.
unless said Pyro are airblast happy and causes the game to slow down make you miss your shots. its especially painful when you play DPS Scout, Beggars Soldier and especially Sniper.
So, the high tours kick you if you don't use the op weapons, the op classes with correct upgrades But when you use the best weapon in the game they kick you anyway Makes sense
@@vanilla8956 It’s called, use the fucking GROUP INVITE? What you fucking stupid or something and can’t find the invite button? Or are you so much of an asshole that you can’t find 5 other assholes to play with? Why does a RANDO need to be FORCED TO PLAY how you want to play fuckwad.
The most deplorable part of this is: I have seen soldiers getting kicked for using the airstrike, heavies getting kicked for using the Tommies, medics getting kicked for using something else then the Kritz the list goes on and on (even if they weren't even doing that badly). All in the name of the "optimal loadout" or the "optimal strategie". And now Valve deliveres the final word in optimal and these bastards make a scene.
High tours be like "if your loadout isn't 100% optimized you will get kicked." And then turn around and say "noooooo you can't use the single best secondary in the game for mvm I'll kick you for using it!"
I'd understand the unhappiness if they're playing to have fun, but they're always so anal about being on the meta, then kick people who follow said meta
Honestly, all of this sounds less of a problem with the Gas Passer and more of a problem with the players who dedicate their time to MvM having as much toxicity as your average Twitter user. Do I think every Pyro showing up to MvM should carry the weapon? No. Do I think getting pissy over weapons and loadouts and kicking the players from a PvE because of it means you're probably a basement dwelling tryhard? Yeah.
@@epikorange5983 Except the Scorch Shot only annoys the enemies and doesn't really help out the team. The Gas Passer deals a shit-ton of damage in MVM and helps the team clear waves faster.
Played a two cities tour with a good friend, we had a whiny high tour in our game but nobody could kick him because he was with a friend of his own. Friend used gas passer and it caused the two of them to get so mad they went engineer and pyro last wave and airblasted one of the boss bots with a health bar infinitely so it couldn’t leave its spawn and basically made the tour unwinnable. It’s a shame how one weapon can get some members of the community so upset that they go out of their way to waste the time of people just for having it equipped.
So what I've learned from this video is that in MvM, a cooperative gamemode, people want optimal setups, but hate this weapon because it's too good and makes you win too quickly. Makes total sense.
@@TheGhostFart you can trivialize MVM by clicking "refund upgrades" then about 12 more clicks or so and boom you've beaten every single wave easily. Hell if you really want too just buy the resistances, could probably make it buy with just that and teammates that aren't lobotomites.
Even without gas passer you still won too quickly You had explosive headshot and scottish resistence which arent hard to use at all as well... And lets not forget refunding... The problem is that ppl alredy got used to the missions they got, if only missions become harder...
So let me get this straight (I don't even play MvM except for Bootcamp): People don't like pyros using the Gas Passer because it... makes the game easier and more fun for new players, allows new players to make a significant contribution to the game and allows your team to win faster? And their reaction to new players having fun yet also playing optimally and the team easily winning a wave is... to complain about the player online and prevent them from joining MvM teams? Yep, I'm glad I don't play Mann Up.
Okay here's the thing tho, the gas makes it TOO easy. Like, imagine if you downloaded an mmo, and had someone help you beat the game while you did nothing. Kinda unfun, right? That's what the gas feels like. If high tours only wanted to get the wave done quick, they'd download aimbots (Because valve doesn't have a functional anticheat god damit) and maybe a Pyro for tanks. People with over 15 tours play it for fun, not to sit back and let the Gibbus Pyro solo the wave.
@@aprofessionalgamer5355 That opinion is subjective to the people, sometimes being overpowered IS fun for people, and thus those sorts of players should play with others that like that, it's better to just segregate communities on this situation rather than have them comingle.
@@aprofessionalgamer5355 Ok? I’d rather blast through the waves and get closer to the reward than have a tacobot team where they force me to use the meta and we slowly crawl to the end
I don't find the Gas Passer boring. It's always funny watching huge groups of small bots just... disappearing. Plus, I want to get a tour done in a reasonable amount of time, which the Gas Passer helps do. Plus, it does the same thing as a sticky trap or an explosive headshot, so I don't understand any argument against it except the "it takes no skill" argument. And no, you don't have to memorize robots for the Scottish resistance. I've absolutely carried tours with it by detonating it based on reaction. Maybe it makes it easier if you memorize it, but you don't need to.
@@Tom-cj5wt But who said you had to be good, the only way to become good is by playing and if you're a cunt to every Gas Passer Pyro they're never going to get better in the first place
@@Tom-cj5wt Trying to both have fun *and* get everything done super efficiently is kinda near impossible though. It's like trying to have your cake and eat it too: either it's going to be too easy, or it's going to be comedic while hard. Metas make it boring, while meme builds make it fun.
What makes me upset about the whole gas passer hate is that a "small" group of people decided that they didn't like the new weapon and bullied others into not using it, hindering potential experimentation with it. A meta shaking weapon was introduced, and instead of letting the meta shift naturally around this new weapon, they decide to axe it right away (not to defend the poor design of mvm gas passer). Its like when people called to ban Hero in Smash Ultimate when he was released because they thought his random crits were overpowered. Luckily he wasn't banned and a proper meta was able to be formed that showed that the random crits didn't make him the best character.
also the down b's command list can be an issue if one of the players doesn't speak the language the game is being played in, since they're unable to read what spells have appeared each time down b is used, putting them at a disadvantage
Thats the hardcore tf2 meta. 6es ruined the games balancing and fun ages ago by Valve pandering to them MvM is doing the exact same thing to themselves
People didn’t think hero was overpowered. They thought random crits were an awful idea which it WAS. Randomly a smash attack can be a game and watch nine, but hero can’t roll 1. Hero was not and is not a balance issue overall. It’s just very much the BAD kind of variance. Much like random damage spread in TF2, which was removed. Hero still has variance without crits or wack/twack, and that’s be far less frustrating to face. There isn’t counterplay to getting one-shot at zero percent cause your opponent got lucky.
Honestly, this is why I'd rather play with friends in MvM more than random teammates, because they don't have a problem with the Gas Passer Hell, one of them even recommends it and they're more experienced at pyro than me, even gave me advice on what loadouts to use and what class Thus, my first ever tour was actually pretty easy and fun
I was originally going to go on a long essay breaking down why each of these points are incredibly stupid. But halfway through, I realised something: MvM elitists will create entire websites, countless forum threads and long ranty "guides" to "weed out the worst" from the funny robot-smashing paid side-mode in a free game. They create total circlejerk communities full of people who, quite literally, believe the exact same thing as them... ...yet they somehow can't pick 5 of these people who meet their exact requirements for an "ideal MvM player" and party up with them. What?
When I play MvM I just want to win fast and have some fun. And Gas Passer does just that. And people will still complain. The MvM side of the community keeps me from wanting to play this mode at all.
It's not too bad on Washington and Cali servers, but you do occasionally run into a bad egg or a cheater or something like that. That's just the game. I only play MvM with at least two friends so if kicks are thrown around, nothing gets done, lmao
Play how you want, this video just showcases that some players have such a fragile ego that they cant accept someone doing well without being a tryhard
Oh woe is the Gas Passer... Too useless in Casual and Competitive to be used, taking too much effort to fill and dealing practically no damage. Too useful in MVM that it makes other players unsecure of their own performance, who then decide to rid of the gas users... I truly feel absolute pity for this weapon that is seen with such vitrol from everywhere all at once.
TF2 not getting an update makes tryhards seethe about everything lmao. TF2 players like this are petty af they're the saddest shit that ever exists on this planet lol. You can't convince me players like these doesn't have a sad life. We have normal players playing the game and we have tryhards who don't want you to enjoy the game. Seriously, what's up with the TF2 fanbase being as worse as Minecraft players malding about KeepInven lmao
@@vanilla8956 Pyro is a power class honestly, sure the gas passer is the least ethical way to show you are to get things done fast but if it works and its within every players capability then in my opinion its fine. The need for it to be nerfed does not outweigh the need for players that auto lock pyro to get better at the class and become more of valuable resource to the team with or without an item that does insane damage.
If you’re an MvM player that plays for the actual gamemode, then sure, be mad. But most high tour MvM players are only playing it for loot, so there’s literally no reason to be mad at the gas passer in this case; you’re just getting your results quicker.
I play Payday 2 for the game itself but I still go full meta with CR805B's and Grimm 12 gauges paired with Anarchist (now Leech). If that gets boring then I play a different game.
What always confused me about MVM's attitude towards the gas passer is just the fact that I have never seen anyone else in TF2 develop such a vitriolic hatred for an overpowered weapon; I mean the Phlog and Scorch Shot aren't even banned in most competitive modes, let alone subject to a mass-kicking campaign by the community.
For all the power the Phlog has, any half-decent comp player will know to never touch that pyro with a ten foot pole. It's only really hated because in pubs there's just a whole bunch of goobers dogpiling down a choke that a Phlog pyro with a medic can just go ham with kritz and uber (assuming that there's not a sentry gun or sniper in the way.)
As a guy who is a Phlog main, I mainly use it in MVM purely for the MMPH. Temporary invulnerability and critical hits for a few minutes. Of course I bring a few canteens with me in case I run out of ammo
I did not have the pleasure to use the gas passer before the nerf but I remember the first time using it and it was so fun But Sniper headshot explosion is still more broken
@@Ultra289 it does less damage for higher cost, wtf are you talking about? skill argument aside, the gas passer also is unlockable by achievement, unlike the most optimal sniper rifle for explosive headshots
...OK ok let me get this straight. These people, care so much about "fun" and "testing their skill" that they would advocate instakicking people for playing optimally... on a mode where you have to PAY PER TOUR TO PLAY. *OF COURSE THEY'RE GOING TO PLAY OPTIMALLY, THEY ARE LITERALLY PAYING REAL MONEY TO PLAY THERE* Do YOU want your chance at an Australian being ruined? I don't think so
To nitpick, you only pay when you win. When you lose, you just burn time. The video description of "the slowest slot machine ever" is completely accurate. So high-tour players are divided between some people who are grinding to try and actually profit (usually people in poor countries) and some people who are chasing the dragon of that blend of challenge and glory. But when that doesn't work out for either camp, there is always the option to either boot the non-conformist, or drop out and rematch.
@@x-blood93 ah yes i payed $2 just to play a round so that i can get a chance of getting an australium and then later get kicked by some scum tour 2k player trash talking that i use a gas passer and wasted 30 minutes there on wave 5/6 imagine u worked so hard in there and then all of that gets kicked
Being a medic main, i get the same amount of flack and hate when i heal a pyro using the gas passer in MVM. It got to a point where me and the gas passer pyro i was healing got kicked out of the game for just hogging the kills.
This kind of shit is why I switched my main class to Sniper.. I don't have to interact with the team, snipe groups of ennemies and slow scouts and as long as I do my job proprerly, the players will leave me the fuck alone
I remember this one mecha engie we had a sniper join and people wanted to YEET him for the sin of trying to snipe but we told them "let them play then we will kick if bad" and sniper mowed th bots down cuz he was a Plat ranked sniper. Once he blew the test we had him and um it got really boring but we were making fun of instant kick mcgee so that was fun
Imagine kicking your medic and best damage dealer mid run, limiting yourself to a team of 4. They basically destroyed themselves better than the robots did.
@@Apolleh Kick the Medic is absolutely stupid. Especially when simply asking no parser would have solved the issue from the start. I was scout on a game and I felt like playing Pyro last wave. I asked if the parser was okay, they asked me not to use it, I equipped the detonator and the game ended fine
I think far more important than the debate over whether or not the Gas Passer is okay to use is the need for the community to be more civil and polite to each other. Asking a new player to change to a better weapon or adapt their strategy when it isn't working is fine, but shouting at them and kicking them before they're even given a chance is a different beast entirely.
Yeah I was on my first two missions yesterday and I’m a scout main so I looked up the mvm meta so I would be helpful and on my second mission by the 4th wave someone told me I missed $75 and explained how I wasn’t doing the best as scout so I switched to heavy and they guided me on what upgrades to buy. It was a good experience
Yeah that's how MVM should be played. Last wave on a very difficult map, I asked about going Spy because of the sapper upgrade and one of them said to either go Spy or Sniper due to the giant Heavy bots and their Medic support. I went Spy and sapped the bots, allowing the team to pick them off. They also recommended I upgrade my knife too for more damage against big bots. And when we failed, I went Sniper and was a lot better. Even had a guy say on my steam that I was a good MVM player, willing to listen to the team and was strategical. Very wholesome
Back in the day, Gas passer got charge from it's own dealt damage. Endless amount of canteens, like X10 MVM, but legit...yeah, it was too OP. All the hate weapon receives would be justified then, and ONLY THEN.
TLDR: gas cancer joins MvM and uses exploits lol and in casual they like "y u so mad about cheaters????? no no its different cheaters are not intended and gas is intended so it's fine!!111"
Whilst everyone is entitled to their opinion, I really think it’s childish to get so pissy over one weapon, especially when you’re playing MvM for the loot (I can understand that it neuters the game if you’re trying to have fun, even then though, it’s not going to solo the whole wave). I personally have no problem when Pyro’s run this as I don’t think it does any harm (and it’s by far Pyro’s best secondary weapon, not like there was much competition in the first place.) I always laugh when I see high tourers get so angry on this topic because it just seems like they have nothing to complain about. It could use being taken down a few pegs if people really wanted it but because the people who do have a problem with it is such a vocal minority that it’ll never happen.
@@Tom-cj5wt Pyro is upgraded properly can still be a useful class, even a niche med picker with the third degree. if he had robots aggro into teammates and has HoK, Pyro is better for close range deeper in enemy territory than Heavy is due to Pyro's mobility.
@@Tom-cj5wt oh yeah. Pyro is a class that actually requires some brain\skill to use like Spy or Sniper to be able to make tge most out of the class in MvM.
But really ticks me off about this and the whole kicking people for using it it's happening in boot camp the no rewards just for fun game mode. Also a smart pyro with the gaspasser will primarily focus on say the tank with their primary and throw the gaspasser when they see a large group of enemies trying to make a push, but of course you have the the toxic MVM player that goes reeeee you are stealing my kills. Seriously it takes me off that this is not just happening in mann up mode but in boot camp. Also 99 percent I'm I equip the gaspasser it is to deal with the Medics around a giant so they can't pop Uber.
I just want to say that low tour ≠ bad player/less experience. It might just mean they don't want to spend money on a gamemode. You can play lots of boot camp (the free mode) and become experienced with the game, but you don't spend money to buy tickets. Mann Up is not the only way to play mvm, so tour count should not be a way to measure a players experience
Badge deleters exist too, as well as people who either leave last second or complete the same missions leaving only one not done. Smurfs, etc. I've came across a lot of "low tours" who play like they have several hundred
I play mostly community, but I used to play Mann Up loads...My trick was, though, that I just didn't finish a tour. I left one mission undone. This meant I could play the best maps consistently for fun. The problem, you might notice, is at some point people just don't believe that you've played as much as you claim because a number didn't tick up on a virtual badge...and so, after a certain point (probably around a year or two after Two Cities) it just became impossible to play with folks who weren't, at least seemingly, on the same tour count...even if I had played far more than your average player at the time. At this point, though, it's just not worth it. Finishing those old, undone tours to rank up feels a waste of time and money; dealing with Tacobot and its ilk is a waste of sanity; and having to justify one's self to strangers in order to play a video game is a waste of one's own self worth. At a certain point the Mann-Up community became too much for the average player and so, now, the average players of today are the ones who have been playing for a long time--not new players. It's a dying community in a sense as new blood is stifled far before it gets invested. Community servers are a whole other thing, though. Removing the loot element (minus the cool badges) and adding moderation has made MvM something anyone can enjoy again without having to enter a 4chan shouting match if they don't play to exact specifications. It's nice. You won't get anything super valuable out of it, but it's far more worth one's time at the end of the day...and you also don't spend money every time you play a game...so, that alone is a win.
@@Jarethenator you're not wrong. It's why at a certain point I wonder what people like that think they are accomplishing by scaring off people. For a game to thrive, it needs to have little barrier of entry. If it has so much of a barrier, then it'll just slowly die out on its own as it becomes some exclusive club where I sure hope you enjoy beating each other off, and believe me when I say most of the Mann Up players despise each other; you can check yourself by casually browsing mvm lobby Mind you, internet ego doesn't help when you try to point out things to people either, making it difficult for the old blood to want to deal with the new blood. Still, MvM isn't so demanding that it warrants such a power trip from people when the janitor and two office plants that maintain TF2 can clear a mission.
I always saw the gas passer as the "I want an Australium, fast" weapon. I didn't see it as an issue, probably because it made the game easier and go by quicker. If you are playing mvm for entertainment, then i can see it being a little annoying to not have a chance to kill the smaller robots. But people really kick players for simply wanting to win?
@@vroomkaboom108 Exactly, if you are going into the paid ticked mode then I assume that you are doing so for rewards and for somewhat optimizing the winning part so it's as fast as possible. If you truly want to have fun go to casual or buy a better team game like Deep Rock Galactic, it'll probably be even cheaper considering how long it takes to get good drops in MVM. (I don't mean that in a way that is "either this or get out" but more in like disproving the "fun" excuse a lot of people who hate the gas passer give) (Also, if you think about it, the true fault of this even happening is VALVE not updating the game mode and not allowing for the creation of servers of this mode where you can place a title like "No Gas Passer 5+ Tours min." so you can separate tryhards from casuals)
I always felt like how they could improve the gas passer, for both mvm and pvp, is to make explode on ignite innate, but significantly lower the damage, but for mvm give it damage upgrades, allowing it to return to it's former OP glory, but costing significantly more. Maybe make it 500$(same as the grenade launcher) per damage upgrade to offset the ridiculously strong effects. Just my two cents.
I was thinking 35 base damage and then damage upgrades could give it a x2.5 damage increase per upgrade up to a max of x10, putting it back at 350 when maxed
Came back to TF2 this year for the first time since 2015, and I'm starting to understand why every server is filled with bots and why these kinds of videos exist.
I loaded up casual after soooooo long and I immediately left the server. I am saddened by the current state of the game. I'm getting my fix by maining Mercy on OW but it just doesn't give that satisfaction as playing Medic or Engie
@@ManvinderSinghWalia Uncletopia and skial vanilla. Uncletopia if you want a more serious, almost competitive-like experience, and skial vanilla if you want a more casual experience. If you want a server where you can play on one specific map or mode, just type the map/mode name in the "Map" box. If you want CTF servers, type "ctf" and hit refresh. If you want to only play 2fort, type "ctf_2fort". You get the idea. Be sure to look at the server names, since some of them include plugins like instant respawn, which you may not want. While you're at it, I recommend giving some of the custom modes a try, like deathrun, vs saxton hale, class wars, etc. I've dumped over a thousand hours in deathrun and vs saxton hale alone.
I played MVM for the first time last night. I had no idea what I was doing and I was immediately told to go phlog Pyro with the gas passer. Now I don't have a Gass passer but I do have a phlog and I had a great time. My teammates were all 200+ tour and very helpful to a brand new player.
It’s surprising how the Gas Passer is so polarizing between MVM and the normal game. In PVP, the Gas Passer is so bad, but in MVM, it’s so overpowered, and the perspective on it shifts so much from that.
The fact that TF2 players are crying because they can't get enough digital points that mean 0 jackshit than a brainless Pyro is soothing in the eyes lol. Good thing I quit TF2 fandoms. The toxicity is average League of Legends player levels and it's NOT an exaggeration.
@@rane7784 the only difference between a TF2 Sweat Tryhard and a LoL Sweat Tryhard is that the quantity of LoL Sweat Tryhards is bigger, otherwise it's literally the same
@@M0D776 I mean yea League does average like 100x the average unique playerbase of TF2. I'd be amazed if there weren't more tryhards lol. I'm pretty sure there are more ranked League players then there are TF2 players in general.
idk if you have ever played it but l4d2 somehow has even more of them, it is incredible how grown adults will cry and votekick you over the tiniest mistake.
I actually did a survey when I kept playing MVM (I like expiraments and I quit because of the nuclear waste that is the MVM community). I played primarily 3 Classes that I was the best at: Soldier, Medic, and Pyro. I just wanted to see how often I got kicked as each class out of 10 matches as each AND I had the meta loadouts for each Medic: only once because I rebound my keys and I couldnt activate the shield to save my life Soldier: only got kicked 3 times because of MG (im sorry I want to be flashy at one point) Pyro: 7 times just because of Gas Passer. after the survey I just decided that MVM wasnt really worth it afterwards since money and I know my luck.
I do use the Gas Passer fairly often, not really because it's optimal or anything but because I have fun using it in MvM, that's all there is to it on my end, it's just something I find really fun. I do understand some points though.
Having not played in years and just going off what I vaguely remember, I thought the answer would've been that it takes the fun from the other classes because the pyro kills everything instantly
so what i'm taking away from this, is that, the reason the gas passer became hated was it made the high tour players that spent forever 'optimizing' feel stupid because it allowed less skilled players to suddenly preform on par with them or carry teams, as if MvM wasn't a massive cesspit of elitism, toxicity, and idiots who thought using the optimum weapon made them good even though they where trash and couldn't hi the broad side of a barn.
No, because it means pyro players will never learn how to play without gas, and most of the challenge in certain waves is suddenly gone. It is genuinely satisfying to beat a difficult wave by your and your own team's merit, rather than abusing a broken mechanic that Valve missions weren't designed around. Let's say one day, an update for Half-Life 2 drops that makes the SMG instakill and gives it explosive bullets, where the explosion also insta kills and there is always an invincible NPC on your side that follows you with this SMG. Do you think the game would be more fun? Do you think that, if the game had released with this, it would have been as praised as it was?
@@bernardonegri5416 Thank you for proving my point. See nothing about your comparison is fitting because Half Life 2 is a single player game and nothing about the gaspasser makes anyone invincible in the game. So that's just a bad comparison 1 to 1. So instead of coming up with a good comparison of PvE mechanics you pick the biggest game you could think of and tried to act like this one item suddenly ruins everything. If you want to make a team to win via merit you would have a team, however the gas passer is clearly designed for randoms by people who just want to get the rewards specially cause of how often they do tours. So again a 'pro player' being salty that someone can pull weight for a random team and getting salty that 'lesser players' get to do well just by playing a mechanic valve added.
@@KenshiImmortalWolf There is no difference between singleplayer games and multiplayer games in that the ultimate purpose is to have fun. It does make a very significant impact on a game, especially on certain waves. I've seen bootcamp teams who were struggling on wave 1 suddenly start steamrolling the robots once someone equipped the gas passer. If people just want to get the rewards as fast as possible, why do so many people hate the gas passer? Point being, MvM players want to have fun, and the gas passer ruins that fun by eliminating challenge.
@@bernardonegri5416 I have never seen someone show such a massive ignorance of gaming in their first sentence. "There is no difference between single player and multiplayer" Once you say this it doesn't matter what you say unless the answer is "in that they are both games." For that is the only immediate thing they have in common. It's like saying "There is no difference between doom eternal and minecraft." To say that they are no different in their ultimate goal is to have fun is 'true' but it's such a blanket statement that it doesn't Mean anything in a real debate. Mostly because there is no 1 type of 'fun' as what i want to enjoy and have fun doing in a single player game, such as to pick at random breath of the wild, and a multiplayer game such as to pick at random, rocket league, are so very different. However let's address the rest of your comment because it deserves that much even if you shot yourself in the foot with you're opener. As for "Why do so many people hate the gas passer." Because Rageful few are often loud and seem more numerous then they actually are because they make an effort to come off as speaking for a majority when they rarely are. Also "if they just want to get through quickly why are so many people angry at the gaspasser" This is to consider that these two groups are the same. They are not. The people who hate the gaspasser are not the same people who want to just get through the tours the absolute fastest atleast consciously. People who just want the rewards tend to not give two shits when a gaspasser is on the field and those that want to do it quickly but bitch about the gaspasser do not actually want to get through quickly they want to get through it 'the skillfull artful way of mastery' which is just fancy speak for wanting to not feel like they wasted their time which is an entirely internalized position. "point being MvM players just wanna have fun and the gas passer ruins this." Oh i'm sorry i wasn't aware you where the chosen ambassador of all MvM players. No You want to 'have fun' and 'have a challenge' which stops being a challenge once you beat it the first time because once you actually beat it you've over come it specially if you're playing with an actual coordinated team, if you fail past that point it's due to poor team work and that isn't a Challenge that's just obnoxious.
@@KenshiImmortalWolf Neither of us can speak for the majority of the playerbase. You are right in that. However, I am confident most people who dislike the gas passer share a position similar to mine. I could also say that people who like the gas passer are a "Rageful few that are often loud and seem more numerous then they actually are because they make an effort to come off as speaking for a majority when they rarely are". Neither of us can say what ratio of the playerbase approves or disapproves the gas passer. In a sense, Half-Life 2 single player is indeed pretty similar to MvM TF2, disconsidering that one is SP and the other is MP. Both are shooters, linear, PvE game(modes) where you fight AI controlled enemies. It is not "not feel like they wasted their time". It is because people genuinely enjoy challenges, and the gas passer takes away that enjoyment. That is why we have multiple difficulty levels. People who just want to steamroll robots can play on Normal and Intermediate and people who want a challenge can play Expert. But if Expert becomes Intermediate because of it, there are gonna be debates. And some people like tacobot (not that I support them in any way) are gonna start kicking others on sight. Due to TF2 being multiplayer, the challenge keeps going even after you beat it once, because never two times you play are going to be exactly the same. And that is what I find fun, adapting to the weaknesses and strengths of your team. Not using overpowered mechanics to make Expert feel like Intermediate. If I wanted to play in a difficulty similar to Intermediate, I'd play Intermediate. I couldn't care less if it is done via "the skillfull artful way of mastery". I just want Expert to feel like Expert and Advanced to feel like Advanced. In your 1st reply, you argue that the gas passer EoI only exists so randoms can complete tours faster. I say that is not good enough to justify its existence. The rewards at the end of each tour should be a bonus, not the sole goal. Of course, for Valve, it is the sole goal, and that is a conflict of interest communities like Potato and Moonlight solve. My point: people who just want to wreck robots can play on Normal and Intermediate, and people who want challenges can play on Expert. People play on expert because it is challenging, and gas (and other OP mechanics) ruin that challenge. Playing for loot shouldn't be a thing.
Havent played MvM in awhile, but I actually saw a tacobot use the gas passer in the match I was in he's no longer with tacobot, so I wonder why that happened.
Im actually suprised that the website you mentioned had a blacklist for 'no two way'. i play engi regularly in MVM and i don't ever usually pick that upgrade. in my experience if your teams doing well there shouldn't be any bots getting past anyway. and scout and soldier can easily run-down any stragglers with their mobility. it frees up the cash for more building health and damage upgrades. And in-between rounds you can just killbind/switch class temporarily to get back to spawn for upgrades.
It's not about bots getting past. Imagine being on Bigrock on a class like Phlog Pyro or Soldier with a fully charged banner at the end of a wave, and you want that charge to use right when the next wave starts. You have two choices: walk all the way back to spawn to upgrade, probably from the cave, and waste your teammates' time, or killbind/switch back and forth between classes to respawn and lose your charge. Two-way isn't an expensive upgrade either, especially for helping teammates in certain situations like previously stated, unlike something like the extra mini sentry upgrade for very negligible DPS - you could start a wave and have a Soldier with a banner ready to go, or Phlog Pyro with a charge ready to go to quickly clear out the first hordes or make a large dent in a tank if the wave starts with one without needing a crit canteen.
"It's an injustice" is the most melodramatic thing I've heard in a long time, especially for a game in shambles the way this one is. I can't help but wonder if people would have cried this much if it was the Brass Beast that dropped during Jungle Inferno and changed the heavy meta. Leave it to MVM nerds to get mad about finishing tours a little faster.
@@bernardonegri5416 While that's true, I still think many of the same people that hate the gas passer would probably still say the brass beast is a bad weapon since it helps heavy, a class that takes less skill than sniper and demo, which are probably make up the bulk of those who scream about the passer the most.
@@Dizzy330 "it helps heavy, a class that takes less skill than sniper and demo" perfectly said by someone who never played Heavy and doesn't understand the insane amount of practice and gamesense that is needed to even main the class effectively.
@@dragonandavatarfan8865 thanks for completely missing the point of my post. The same people who trash the gaspasser so fiercely would do the exact same if something was added to elevate the effectiveness of a class that is considered to have less skill by the status quo elitists.
While I agree gas passer is still the dullest, most boring weapon, but I'd argue Scottish Resistance is VERY close to this. At best it requires the barest of minimum of one teammate communicating with you telling you where to put stickies (or you can memorise it ofc) but after this, Scottish Resistance IS near as boring as gas passer. Only Sc. Res is more of a boring giant killer then hoarde killer, so in a way it's still more fun since players can still have fun by killing smol robots, plus most giants(Especially in custom mvm) can survive crit stickies
I dislike the gas passer, and really dislike stickies due to the fact that they instakill robots, which takes away need for teamwork, the reason I like TF2. At least the explosive headshot is fun to use
I sometimes run the Gas Passer (I get told off if I use anything else but then again I get told off for using it) but keep it in reserve for if someone's about to die.
eh; the ability to have 15 stickies i can explode selectively; rather then 8 all at once. people love to shit on the gas passer; but between all the other "why is this here in your loadout?" i don't question a demo who uses a resistence right.
"boring" i don't understand the reasoning. the default sticky is just shoot n explode. the resistance you literally have to remember shit. soooo... less is more? okay.
The Scottish Resistance is only really a problem because the missions are old and stale (and slow-paced), and too many people have memorized them. All sorts of cheese gets discovered when missions sit for 8 years with no updates. Set a Scottish Resistance Demo in a new, fast-paced mission he's never played before (e.g. Operation Binary Blackout, Operation Digital Directive, etc.), and he's not a problem anymore.
The gas passer is one of my personal favorite weapons in MVM. I’m of the opinion that getting upset that people use an efficient means to beat a PVE gamemode are somewhat misguided.
The gas passer is honestly so good and saves so much time. I was told that a Demoman is far more effective than a gas pass pyro, which I honestly don't believe
@@thebushbros6626 The reason why people REEEE over passer and not scottish is that scottish requires med kritz and knowledge of spawns. It's another case of dumbasses thinking that just because it takes more skill it's okay if it's broken. Much like sniper in PvP
@@user-lh7mt7zo7l honestly sniper in pvp was never an issue for me since most snipers on pubs are terrible. But yeah it’s pretty BS that no one bats an eye on the Soctissh even tho it’s much more powerful.
@@user-lh7mt7zo7l Demo and sniper in mvm barely take any skill, they are just robots and with predictable movements and in most times they move slow...
Y’see, this conversation is exactly why communication between players is key. Because I feel a lot of this backlash and hate could be mitigated by proper Comunication and cooperation.
@@HellecticMojo they always had that mentality. MvM is a co-op gamemode. you need to work with the needs of the team. if you run say, a huntsman sniper but there's no med picker in the team or missing an engie to keep everyone from fighting for ammo boxes, you already contribute to the problem. Thats why that "just let em play what they want" mentality doesn't fly with most MvM players (who aren't tacobot) and that's why this conflict is happening. the casuals just don't care at all while MvM players are sick of being told off by the PvP players that their opinions don't matter. thats how tacobot was created in the first place.
I think this is my favorite video on this topic I've seen so far. To me, the gas passer is very contextual in how I feel about it. I believe that EVERYONE should be allowed to play the game if they want to, if they're good or bad, obviously. So if what would otherwise become dead weight that makes us lose the round can all of a sudden become an ounce of competent crowd control, I'd be damned to complain. I do admit, now that I've played more, I've come to understand the ANNOYANCE with the weapon. Sometimes it can feel a bit unsatisfying to play Soldier when practically every wave of enemies gets blown up before I can do much to them. But I also feel the exact same way about clusters of crit stickies versus giants. They're amusing at first, but at some point, I'd like to do something lol So it's like, for me, if everyone on the team is crazy competent and good, I'd like a more lax loadout from everyone so that I don't end up doing basically nothing. But if teams are clearly lopsided in skill level, I say those overpowered weapons are more than welcome. Above all else, nothing is more annoying than resetting a wave, so as long as I don't have to do that, I'm happy. There really does feel like a major hypocrisy with this whole thing that I'm very glad you addressed. People who go out of their way to kick and insult folk for not strictly following the meta have 0 place to complain about the gas passer. It's always struck me as incredibly dumbfounding. Great video!
@@theortheo2401 I feel the whole point of the comment is that we should treat MvM like we do with Casual, or Community Servers, where your allowed to use any loadout either good or bad, where as if we try to complain about someone on the opposite team using a bleeding weapon to change into a different loadout that is generally one person and we would not feel pressured to do so because we find their overreaction funny! Yet if we do the same in MvM, you’d either be pressured by the entire team to swap off to “THE META” or be kicked because you aren’t good! TF2 is generally an very accepting game for new players,(aside from being perm muted because of bots) but MvM has become soo delusional that the community makes it to where new players cannot TRY their favorite loadout from Casual or Community Servers and allow them to figure it out that their loadout selection might not be the best because TF2 is already a complicated game especially for newer players. But MvM is even more complicated because there is strategy involved soo much that it makes newer players who are already confused with TF2, even more so!
@@lugismansion2400 Especially as if you fail a Wave, Good people see what went wrong and what to change or do at that part to build it. The META slaves demand you already know everything on the test and if you screw ul once you are done cuz they dont got time to teach!
you don't use the gaspasser because you think its unfair i don't use the gaspasser because my pc cant handle all the effects and explosion particles we are not the same
That final statement is exactly how I feel about the Gas Passer. As someone farming Tours for golden pans in my downtime, I don't mind a competent pyro (or even a 1 Tour if he understands the basics) using Gas since that just speeds up my own time and I can get to the next tour faster. Of course, if I drop into a Tour as a Gas Pyro myself and high tourer have gathered for something like Melee Only or Demoknight Only or Sniper Only or anything that doesn't constitute optimal gameplay, I consider whether I want to/have the time for myself to do these slower tours for fun. If not, I disconnect and go to the next but I would not attempt to enforce the use of Gas on a team that clearly wants to do something for fun.
@@RegalRoyalWasTaken There are some obvious choices. Demoknight is of course the designated melee subclass, though it sucks hard early. Sniper makes for a pretty decent hybrid-melee playstyle with the Cleaner's Carbine where the minicrits from the Crickey ability on the carbine are converted into full crits with the Bushwacka. You can go full Medic and chain Ubers with the Ubersaw. But outside of specifically Demoknight and Crickey Crit Sniper, damage output in melee only runs is limited, especially since melee weapons are also limited in the number of upgrades they can recieve.
@@PlutoDarknight the fact that the booties don't have upgrades on themselves does weaken full demoknight somewhat too. Like, just give additional movement speed bonuses in upgrades, or a mini version of the scout's ability to heal from collecting money (as you'll be in the robots' faces the entire time)
MvM Players: *If you play a non-optimal strategy, we will kick you, dox you, and burn your house down, we're here to win* Also MvM Players: *WAAAH THE GAS PASSER MAKES THE GAME TOO EASY. WE'RE WINNING TOO MUCH.* I hope valve buffs it.
I love the "abandons every single game for an unexplained reason" report from someone who I can guarantee has tacobot in their name. If I see a tacobot in the game join I just leave
I am neutral towards the gas passer, but I first learned about the hate towards it in one boot camp mission where a couple players "insisted" that the pyro switch it off
As someone who only plays MvM solely for the rewards, the gas passer is a godsend that allows me to just sit back most of the time while the Pyro does the bulk of the dirty work.
One thing i find really weird, is that of all the classes, pyro was always the bottom tier class, at least since two cities. Some would put spy on the same tier, but not all, though it may be because those people were good at spy. Only since jungle inferno and mainly the gas passer cheesing much of a wave, have anyone really come to do... anything for or on pyro in mvm, and even getting a chance to practice pyro in MvM was/is extremely difficult, as people before thought you were throwing a match for picking him, now its either still that or you are being too good and have to get kicked. I just dont get the hate for the weapon or for the class really.
pyro is a good class in mvm, he just gets bad rep because new pyros are infuriating to play with. spamming airblast and knockback for no reason, accidentally blowing up the engi's buildings by pushing around sentry busters, running headfirst into a giant heavy and dying in 0.3 seconds. a lot of people just dont know how bot aggro works. its the same reason why people think spy is trash, except you see less people play spy because new players dont wanna play as him (too complex). i guess thats why people hate the gas passer. why would new pyros learn how bot aggro works when they can just throw gas, kill 10 giant heavies, throw themselves into giants and die, and still get a good damage score?
Bad players and bad classes are two different things. Pyro has one of the best damage outputs in MVM even without the gas passer. Its always been a high tier must have in mvm. The fuck are you talking about?
@@Jabooduable It's precisely because of bad players using Pyro that gives people the perception that Explode on Ignite is needed to make Pyro good, when in reality it makes Pyro egregiously overpowered
Remove the recharge upgrades. Add the explosion into the normal game. Reduce the explosions damage. Replace the 400 credit "explode on ignite" with a 200 credit upgrade that increases damage back up to the 350 damage explosion after 3 or 4 upgrades. Boom Problem made less stupid Gas passer now less awful in the normal game.
I was big into MvM back in the day, I was there from day one. I remember when you failed a wave, you tried again instead of just rage-quitting when you didn't instantly win. It was better days. I remember when the Gas Passer entered the ring, Pyro went from a class that no one played, like sniper and Demo, to appearing more often as the skill-ceiling was lowered for pyro players, in a similar sense to Medics before Two Cities. (Which was what dethroned pyro in the first place) I think it's an alright weapon, it can be used as a demoman substitute in some situations, not all. I didn't actually know what the problem with it was, or why it was so heavily blasted on Tacobots website. I guess the issue was the lack of honesty from people that hate it? Or maybe no one ever really explained it. Thanks for the good video.
I played MvM when it was first released but haven't played TF2 in a few years, do people actually no longer bother retrying waves? Also, why do people only care about Two Cities nowadays?
So the Gas Passer initially would recharge from *ANY* damage, even its own, which was overpowered. Blue Moon made that not happen, and currently its really powerful, but definitely not absurd. Tacobot players are whiny bitches, even players who throw a tantrum and just sit at spawn being the problem, even doing the retry command so they can't get kicked. Even I got marked for not kicking a hacker because I gave up trying to get them kicked since several times I would want them kicked to no avail. Also, any Advanced/Expert map drops aussies, it's that Two Cities has a safety blanket in the form of worthwhile killstreak kit fabricators.
Pyro's biggest weakness is still giants. Sure, he's got the health of a demoman, but nowhere near the range, so heavy, demo and sniper will still deal with giants far better than you. Pyro can be an effective substitute for scout, but you've then gotta invest into move speed and jump height to better avoid damage
Watched videos before starting MvM and i learned "Be respectful, be a team, listen to their concerns" After completing a tour i learned "Do what you want, fuck em" 8/10 missions with 'high tours' resulted in sperg conniption over a stubbed toe. I've yet to hear a clear and legit reason not to use gas on youtube, it's literally all hyperbole and unrelated to the item. "Uses gas? Might be a noob", seems like the problem there is the noob part not the gas.
I only play Boot Camp on Expert, and as a Pyro main in both the main game and MvM, I have one thing against the Gas Passer: I kinda get all the kills. I like to see my team being able to pull their weight and have fun shooting at robots, and hell, you can still steal kills with the Phlog, but that at least is not an instant win button and my mistakes will still be punished.
I mean, maybe it's because I haven't gotten around to playing mvm but, don't you guys wanna shoot robots? Like I play other coop "horde shooters" like l4d, vermin/darktide, and deep rock galactic. If I was playing one of those games and someone used a weapon that is as strong as what this looks like id probably just leave the game. I play these modes for the gameplay and unique builds, but I wouldn't be able to do any of that if I had a teammate that got like 80% of the kills. Why even play at that point?
I'm using the gas passer just despite high tours. It makes the waves faster and helps alot especially in mecha engine where not many people actually know what to do
Having never played MvM but being interested in trying, I was genuinely considering starting out running the Gas Passer for its supportive purposes, basically adding afterburn dps to allies' attacks, cuz I thought hey, this sucks in pvp matches, but against clump-spawning bots it's like a bonafide dps assist, right? I had no idea this explosion upgrade was a thing and the sheer fallout of it makes me sort of afraid to get into mvm now tbh
Gas passer doesn't have any afterburn and if you wanted to """help""" with afterburn then you'd use your flamethrower... Or scorch shot to stunlock the giant robots, which is just as pointless.
Don't be afraid of doing what you believe to be effective (and just don't play two cities) Gas Passer does have supportive capabilities, yes, but the afterburn window is a tad small so you may have to communicate but it shouldn't be too big of an issue. And if you're really just paranoid don't buy the explode on ignite upgrade until the later waves where giants are more common and don't get transported to another dimention when a molicule of gas gets ignited on a patch of grass next to it
Nah fam this flak is only coming from the "High tour" neckbeards. 90% of the player base will applaud someone using the gas passer because it makes the game easier and faster.
I recently got into playing tf2 early early this year, after a while of playing community servers with friends teaching me the game we all played mvm. Me adoring pyro’s flanking, comboing, play style decided to pick him… picked flog due to me being bad at air blasting and still learning it, powerjack for movement, and the gas passer cause I heard in a video it was good there and I had close to no items We had so much non stop instant quitting from people because of me that we ended up just 3 manning the game… no one wanted to tell me why for all of the hate lol. Now I at least now know why it’s hated so much even if it is still stupid IMO. Would have saved me an hour and half of my time trying to practice air blasting.
Feels bad to not know that though but also fuck those guys. They would quit just because you used it which to me makes no sense because you are hating on a weapon that is utter garbage on casual and is actually useful on mvm. So I would encourage you to use it regardless of what anybody says. Those people are just people with nothing to complain about
I've always feared getting into the MvM community, one of the reasons for it is because I'd heard horror stories of kicks and shaming for playing Gas Passer. While I see it as completely reasonable to be kicked when you're purposefully being a dickweed to disadvantage your own team, ie playing Trolldier, when you've got something as legitimately viable (or in this case, overpowered) as the Gas Passer, I feel that it kinda pushes away new players when you open shame people who use it (hence why I stay away from MvM).
@@Tom-cj5wt don't want to be mean but that might apply to you and some others (by apply I mean the being nice thing) because most of them won't say anything to you unless you have so something they think or is not optimal and care about imaginary scores that don't matter in mvm. I'm casual or competitive it might matter but aside from that it won't
Don't join it, MvM is essentially for losers who were too shit at PVP so they try to heal their bruised ego by shooting at robots. "Haha, me kill computer bot, me so pro uwu"
@@zaezae64 Yes but you're hating on your allies for using what they want. Hating on your enemies is one thing. Hating on your teammates is something else. Especially for something like they got a big amount of kills and you didn't.
@@pix985v I don't condone the toxicity certain players employ, but I do not see the issue with not wanting to play with people using overpowered/lame tactics. Part of the appeal of MVM is the cooperation aspect - everybody has a role. Gas Passer just invalidates majority of the classes and makes teamwork not required, and this is TEAM fortress. Gas passer's uber medic killing capability makes Demo and Sniper redundant. Gas passer's crowd clearing makes soldier redundant Phlog lets pyro keep up with even heavy in terms of damage. It all just makes playing the game very boring and unrewarding. This might be fine for people who only play mvm to gamble, but I play mvm to have fun and work as a team. Gas just makes it really hard to do that, since all it takes is 1 competent player with gas to make him the solo carry.
It is the perfect weapon to make MvM funny to us, players who wants to chill. I usually do the following: I enter a match, instantly lock on Pyro and state that I will be using Gas Passer, and anyone who's against it can leave. After all crybabies left, I swap back to any other class I wish to play (usually Scout or Medic, or even Pyro with Gas Passer if I'm really on the mood). PS: Yes, I do my job pretty well when playing as Pyro on an MvM tour. So yeah, I can stand up to what I'm saying here.
Good on you for creating a civil discussion regarding the Gas Passer. I don’t play much MVM but I keep up with it a bit. Very disheartening to see how toxic the TF2 community is at times.
I’ve recently been playing MvM with a friend new to the game, and it was quite easy to explain to him why it’s OP We’ve had the following discussion many times: “Holy shit that is a lot of Heavies! We are about to-” “3… 2… 1… Delete.”
@@mishagaming1075 Do you realize robots are not human right? This isnt casual... First of all, robots make predictable moves so its not hard at all to hit,they have their own nav mesh to follow unlike humans ,and of top of that most robots move slowly , specially giants which are definetly the main target you want to hit ,just hitting a giant alredy makes more damage than the gas passer itself And worse of all, for those robots who are not slow, jarate can solve the problem very easily and for emergencies you got canteens which are not rly expensive to upgrade, also that jarate doesnt take rly long to respawn There is just no punishment for sniper for missing unlike gas passer ,missing a shot or two doesnt matter and missing shots in mvm is incredibly hard unless your internet is garbage
@@Ultra289 First of all, yes, second of all, i shouldn't have even replied like this, third of all, robots can sometimes be unpredictable. But i understand your point.
@@Ultra289 this isn't really a solid argument if we're talking about newer players to FPS games. for a new player, the skill between aiming in a general direction and pressing M1 with a huge window of opportunity and the need to aim at a 'small' head aswell as press the button in the right time is quite significant. also you're never really going to miss with the gas passer so I don't think it matters to compare which one is worse to miss
i was playing a game with full high tours who spent the whole game insulting each other for having low damage or low points. it was so inanely insecure it hurt.
Funny enough, a few years ago I when i was pretty much new to the game. I eventually tried put mvm for the frist time and my main was pyro at the time. I played as them and would get killed constantly by any bots. After a few games someone said to try and use the gas passer and it made the match actually fun and beneficial to myself and my team. I've been using ever since and it can help my team to deal with huge robots that have Uber bots on them. If you want to play pyro without the gas passer is fine, but if you're having a hard time. Never be afraid to use the gas passer as pyro..
You know I never knew about the gas passer and its unlikability. Hoped into a MVM match and my first loved class was pyro so I said "against robots this will be easy" yeah obviously it wasn't, not because I was fairly new at the game, the bots where way tough so instead of changing class I changed load out until I found that bad boy... I have never been kicked from a game so fast in my life
I think what I find most amusing about the taco bot blacklist is that unless they somehow manage to get Valve to endorse it and add it to the landing page of TF2 for all to see, or somehow get it onto some other publicly visible message board, no one but them can see it. Meaning it's a bunch of unreasonably-upset individuals ciclejerking (I think I used that term correctly? I'm not super savvy in internet terminology.) in their own little chat rooms about people being 'monkey' or 'ape' or 'slave'.
Removing the explosive isn't the way to go if you ask me, nerf the damage to 125-150, enough to one-shot weaker bot classes but doesn't clear an entire attack of bots cause why not. Make it have nice burst damage but bad DPS, making it only really useful on Scout Waves or Spy checks, not clearing Soldier/Heavy waves
I thought about that as well, glad I’m not the only one who had this kind of suggestion in mind about changing it to only one shot the low health classes
I would be happy with it doing like 35-50 on explode and restore the recharge on hit. Atleast then it would still be useful as the spam tool it was released as but not this fucking broken
Everyone who wants damage lowered needs to remember the damage they state is almost always going to be doubled due to double ignition. If you aren't going below 150 it still is going to effectively 1 shot heavies and between 100-150 will still 1 shot battalion soldiers because it uses generic damage that bypasses resistances.
9:20 Eyy who's that medic lol Anyway, thanks for making this video. I planned on making a video about this a long time ago, but there was just way too many things I had to discuss so I was stuck in the infinite loop of script rewriting. This vid nearly perfectly pointed on the topics I thought about too, great work! I'd like to add a few on top of this though: Low tour Gas Passer Pyro is unwelcomed cause the majority of them are incompetent. I feel like more high tours are mad when Pyros are ignoring uber medics, airblast spams, dies over and over and over, not when they exceed their damage number. At least for me. It's natural to get annoyed by a teammate who's not doing their job correctly. So if they don't know what the class they picked should do, that implies that they haven't even read guides before even pressing the queue button, so concludes that they're the villain of the story. And I agree with your conclusion. Just like Soundsmith's 50/50 rule, apply that on MVM. But needs some tweaks of course... I've seen quite a few arrogant newbies who think they're GOAT at the game, refuse to have any kind of advice from teammates. Sometimes they overtake over half of the team, and if it's the case, there's no possible way to 'helpful high tour' can save this game. For these kinda cases, I think we'd better promote this instead: "Don't be scared of leaving the game and re-queue". Leaving MVM servers won't grant you any disadvantages so, try to find teammates whose willing to take your opinion will be always a faster and healthier option. At least based on my experience. Again, great video. I hope more people understand MVM better, ultimately stop categorizing 'low tours' and 'high tours' as a whole and try to burn the other side.
The Pyro has a long history of having weapons that are seen as overpowered despite other classes possessing the same ability to do the same thing. The arguments for scottish resistance, beggars, and explosive headshots are poor. There even isn't one besides "clicking on head is hard" when it really isn't, especially against bots. Pretending skill is even a factor in what's basically the PVE mode in a PVP game is also hilarious. Nobody cares how good you are at setting down stickies. With how much bitching goes on in the game mode you can't even say people play it for fun. People might bullshit about and say they just wanna have fun and that mean ol pyro is making it so they don't get their epic kills on literal bots but at the end of the day, it does not matter. People want their aussies. You're spending money to waste time to gamble for gold.
The hate for the Gas Passer makes much more sense as a community MvM wave designer. Places like Potato MvM allowed the upgrade at first since it was new, but they quickly found out in practice that 'Explodes on Ignite makes it so that you can't actually challenge teams with non-giant robots anymore'
@@ReshyShira I personally attribute that to the fact that a good portion of the missions are intermediate, and that the missions were made in a very short amount of time.
@@luigifan4585 Doesnt the toolbox the map makers have since they were able to make custom bots allowes the potato makers to break the gas passer on a spire? I seen medics with shields, bleed dmg, tanks with sentries and that one mining map thay was the W o r s t... I am sure they couls make something.
@@Subject_Keter med shield doesn't block the lingering AoE that would douse them and blow up afterwards. Pyro can still tank bust even if they're not facing the optimal position. Don't know what 'mining map' you're talking about? Cliffside? Underground? Oh wait you probably meant Rustvalley. Eh that sentry on top of a tank gets hard counter by a Spy just jumping up on top and sapping it Keep in mind the ignite damage is untyped and thus ignores any resistances, so stuff like Steel Gauntlets will still get melted by gas
I don't play MVM that much anymore, but when I did, I would most often play sniper (being a sniper main, kinda expected). There'd be a "rare" occasion I ran into a GP Pyro, which would make my role basically useless. I've found that telling them (nicely) they can use the Scorch Shot seems to make em happy, so not really losing much in the grand scheme.
So I'm just spitballing here, but would making it so that the Gas Passer doesn't charge from fire damage in MvM make the Gas Passer more balanced? It would mean that you can only use it once every minute, or 24 seconds with the investment into recharge rate deduction, which would mean you'd have to atleast consider for a moment before using it, and you couldn't just piss em out willy nilly and end up killing everything Hell if 24 seconds is too much you could just drop the max level of recharge rate on it so that the minimum time is higher
I used to do a lot of MvM with my brother and I used gas passer pyro. I didn’t meet too many toxic people and those I did got kicked before I did. However I did get one ‘toxic’ player who gave me a chance and to his credit, he admit it made things faster. Still said he’d prefer a demo or soldier but hell he was mature about it
![[TF2] The Biggest MvM Mistakes](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wobYwE6nM2c/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] The Biggest MvM Mistakes](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] The Curious Case of Cheating in MvM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U3CONEa1lyY/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] MvM Shenanigans: The Gas Passer is Ridiculously Good](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/86jQiZQz3C4/mqdefault.jpg)
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] MvM's Worst Class](/img/n.gif)
I'mma be honest, the only reason I'd ever play MVM is to try and get Aussies, and if I've got a Pyro on my team making that go by quicker, well shit I might just send him a friend request
if I ever get that then I'm sending him a friend request and a cookie.
Yeah, I was gonna say wasn't the only reason people played MVM was for shiny weapons or the frying pan? If the mode is made easier and faster, I figured most people would be happy about it. I'm sure there's people out there that play MVM for fun, but if they're doing that they're probably already self imposing challenges and limits to up the difficulty.
Man I really wanted to get Team Fortress 2 and get into the shenanigans like friendly servers, crazy interactions and go bot bashing. But with the sorry state TF2 is in with bots that are not in MVM, script kiddies, toxicity and effing Tacobot I just can’t find myself to get in on all the fun that was the old TF2. For crying out loud, I got the remastered Dark Souls game on my Nintendo Switch just to have fun getting frustrated with the difficulty and the shot of dopamine from defeating the bosses in it.
Which is funny, because ppl also hate bots and cheaters despite them also speed up the grind.
@@Zerethos *Just Go to Community servers its how the Game was supposed to be played anyway.*
MvM; the place where you can get kicked for not playing optimally but also for playing too optimally
It's filled with losers who were too shit at PVP so they try to compensate for their bruised ego by killing robots.
just wait until you play hightower public server and push the cart
Monkey brain
@@ff1511 but who is asking to play optimally on high tower
@@ff1511 hightower is a goofy map
The toxicity of MvM is a real shame and it goes down multiple levels.
I tried adding some strategies for double mini-sentry to the TF2 wiki (which I know is sub optimal but it doesn't mean those strategies don't exist at all) but they were deleted outright, usually with an angry rant about promoting anti-meta.
Hi! I'm interested
I'll never get the chance to really try it, but I've been trying to get a better idea than trying to pair them with the Frontier Justice; being more of a weird damage class and less of a utility
Begining in the mvm there was an urban legend minies dont proc busters so the team have less swet do defend the enginer... so as a low tour shithead i tought tahts a legit tacktick to bring 2 minies...
what were the strategies you wrote?
@@CGI_Lantern I'm assuming you now know better and that sentry buster will still spawn since it's based off of sentry damage, just that mini series get chewed through fast enough to the point where that damage trigger doesn't get met
i need to know the strat tell me it right now
I find it incredible the MVM community manages to make the regular TF2 community look sane.
Compare the whole community to overwatch, WE ARE THE MORE TOLERABLE COMMUNITY!
Overwatch is SO MUCH WORSE!!!
@@emperorconstantine1.361 depends
@emperorconstantine1.361 Overwatch has nothing to do with the topic here. It's MvM comm vs regular casual comm.
@@emperorconstantine1.361Not when the commumity can’t let go of a one sided rivalry.
@@emperorconstantine1.361"WE ARE THE MOST TOLERABLE COMMUNITY!!!1!1!!1!1" *proceeds to talk shit about a random community*
"So you're playing to get loot?"
"Yes"
"So having the games go faster would be ideal?"
"Makes sense to me"
"So gas passer is good"
"F1."
My thought exactly.
Imagine getting mad that someone can wipe out a wave really fast LMAO.
"xXManRayXx has been kicked"
agreed. maybe the reason they hate the gas passer is bc they are want the kills all to themself
@@Ushankan those who can't get positive amount of kills in pvp
@@Ushankan This is literally the problem. They start applying damage/kill values to their own self worth, so anything that does better with less effort undermines that. The best solution while keeping that mindset would be to say "damage/kills as ", because then pyro only competes with pyro for damage/kills.
I once got votekicked on the last wave of mvm for playing gas passer, they purposely waited until the end the kick me. Really changed my view on the gamemode as a whole and the people playing it.
This is why i've never played mvm and never will, each and every player who plays mvm is an a-hole, there's just those who admit being it and those who lie, every single player who ever played mvm even a single round is worse than Hitler, have a nice day.
@@revenantghost6160 damn who pissed in your cereal
@@arslors An mvm player did
@@arslors i did
@@arslors so did I
A lot of it just boils down to "REEEEEE MY KILLS WERE STOLEN!!", or "PYRO BAD!!"
"REEEEEEEE! MY USELESS STAT THAT NOBODY WILL EVER CARE TO CHECK!"
The only metric I pay attention to is Tank Damage while playing Sniper
Yeah that’s essentially part of it, but as stated in the video it’s also the fact that it undermines all of the things that the pyro had to actually LEARN and do well, Like avoiding taking damage and getting close up to deal damage back, dodging, movement is very important especially since the Pyro is a average move in class
@@XplosiveAction eh true, but hating it just seems pointless. It will never change.
"REEEE I CANT GET AROUSED IF AM NOT SINGLEHANDLY KILLING ALL THE BOTS ARRRUH!"
Mvm pro people are worst than a hemorroid that is about to explode.
I rather play with the worst weapon and see if I survive and make the run better than do the same to see if I get crap and an oportunity to get a golder bunch of pixels
One time I played with an engi that ONLY PAID FOR THE MINI SENTRY GUN FOR ALL THE WAVES, and it was better than play with someone who needs to go outside
Yo Sr Pelo
Hello
Amogus
based ong
I dont blame you. Most mvm players I met are wholesome, but occasionally I meet some a-holes that contradict what they say and basically acts like a dipshit until they get what they want
Getting mad at a weapon that makes the waves go much faster is like being mad at empty traffic
That is such an under rated quote I love that
Nah but this
Imagine being angry because you don't have anyone or anything to complain about or to because no one or thing is causing problems for you to be angry for.
Anyone with that mindset can't be fucking happy & won't be even after everyone's miserable, fucking disgusting.
Unless it's at the Indianapolis 500. Is this an MvM server, or an idle server?
Why is there always some guy commenting this exact thing on every discussion about the gas passer in MvM
“It’s just damage, you can’t care about balance in a PvE game”
The more I learn about the MVM community the more I go outside and talk to people irl to avoid becoming like them.
That is the maneuver my friend
Or just play mvm and not be involved your self because mvm is actually pretty fun
Finally! the MvM community is good for something!
MvM community is not the same as 2 cities tryhards. There is a significant difference.
And this is why I play on those Potato and Pinepple MVM servers.
While I agree that the gas passer is not a very well balanced weapon, it also works as a sort of a filter. If the team has a pyro using a gas passer that hasnt gotten kicked, chances are there are no toxic assholes in your team. That reason alone is enough for me to accept it.
i renamed mine tacobot deterrent
@@thatonecrazykobold1729 I'll rename mine "salty high-tour tears"
@@justafan9206 nice! do it!
@@thatonecrazykobold1729 once I get rivals of aether.
WeezyTF2: (says explosive headshots takes skill)
Everyone: *IMPOSSIBLE*
That blacklist stuff is one of the most demented things I’ve seen from an FPS game, perhaps from any game with a multiplayer I’ve been aware of or played.
"Teach them how to use other loadouts so they know more."Mvm players: Nah
"Bully them to the point that they stop playing all together" MvM players: Oh Hell yeah
@@spaghettiboy1545 Hypocrisy at its finest.
Wait til you hear about what goes on in the high-end crafting/trading "community" in Path of Exile. Some of those turboneckbeards make tacobot seem relatively high functioning by comparison. I've legit had threats from people for undercutting them lmao
@@spaghettiboy1545 Why not blacklist people who use/create that website from getting good loot or locking said loot inside their invs?
lol. Valve should do that. Abusive, hateful, toxic people losing their items by being locked out would be sufficient.
@@aandyherr817 No it should prank them by destroying their already earned aussies and all aussies they would have otherwise recieved. No good stuff, if you are gonna be complaining about a thing that makes good stuff easier to achieve.
My opinion on the Gas Passer in MvM:
It deserves to be stupid OP in MvM when its literal crap gas in normal gameplay.
Either let it be, or change it for both Casual and MvM cinsistently. Good.
@@Crazylom It could be interesting if it explode in hit in casual, but hell should be doing a lot less damage to not be op
@@DrunkedOwly Since it’s so difficult for the gas to even charge, it should do 125 damage.
@@theovermind6041 i think charge quicker and, able to kill a light class, but with afterburn not on hit, because I don't think it'll be that funny
@@DrunkedOwly 65 dmg on explosion +80 afterburn damage
When I play MVM I want to beat the games fast. Any pyro who uses the gas passer is good in my book. “Here for a fun time not a long time”.
I like that quote, very short and to the point
unless said Pyro are airblast happy and causes the game to slow down make you miss your shots. its especially painful when you play DPS Scout, Beggars Soldier and especially Sniper.
if people play CTF they want to enjoy a long time(otherwise its questionable)
Gas Passer Best Weapon Ever.
A decent demo, soldier, or sniper can do almost everything that the average gas pyro does, but faster.
So, the high tours kick you if you don't use the op weapons, the op classes with correct upgrades
But when you use the best weapon in the game they kick you anyway
Makes sense
They dont wanna get bested by another player in the game whos using an easier method than them
@@yunanimator6293 inferiority complex
What evidence do you have that these 2 separate opinions are all agreed upon by the same people?
@@alt1763 Wow, an anecdote. Clearly everyone else I've talked to and seen now no longer exists because you think you found one example
@@vanilla8956 It’s called, use the fucking GROUP INVITE? What you fucking stupid or something and can’t find the invite button? Or are you so much of an asshole that you can’t find 5 other assholes to play with? Why does a RANDO need to be FORCED TO PLAY how you want to play fuckwad.
The most deplorable part of this is: I have seen soldiers getting kicked for using the airstrike, heavies getting kicked for using the Tommies, medics getting kicked for using something else then the Kritz the list goes on and on (even if they weren't even doing that badly). All in the name of the "optimal loadout" or the "optimal strategie". And now Valve deliveres the final word in optimal and these bastards make a scene.
And the thing is, a highly upgraded airstrike is FUCKING INSANE for tank busting
Thats so dumb, vaccinator and airstrike go so hard
@@masterofdoots596520+ crit rockets depletes half of the tanks hp in SECONDS.
High tours be like "if your loadout isn't 100% optimized you will get kicked." And then turn around and say "noooooo you can't use the single best secondary in the game for mvm I'll kick you for using it!"
In short: turbo virgins
@@katt5331 Virgin Karens with a 500K in school debt and working a shit 15$/h 12h a day.
I'd understand the unhappiness if they're playing to have fun, but they're always so anal about being on the meta, then kick people who follow said meta
that happened to me in my last 3 tours
bro its absurd op, why should it be accepted?
Honestly, all of this sounds less of a problem with the Gas Passer and more of a problem with the players who dedicate their time to MvM having as much toxicity as your average Twitter user. Do I think every Pyro showing up to MvM should carry the weapon? No. Do I think getting pissy over weapons and loadouts and kicking the players from a PvE because of it means you're probably a basement dwelling tryhard? Yeah.
The scorch shot equivalant in mvm
@@epikorange5983 Except the Scorch Shot only annoys the enemies and doesn't really help out the team. The Gas Passer deals a shit-ton of damage in MVM and helps the team clear waves faster.
@@ajgameguy3674The scorch shot equivelant but actually helpful for your teammates*
@@epikorange5983 Yeah, pretty much.
I'd honestly compare tf2 player base to 4chan instead of Twitter, a lot of people I knew from tf2 were like that
Played a two cities tour with a good friend, we had a whiny high tour in our game but nobody could kick him because he was with a friend of his own. Friend used gas passer and it caused the two of them to get so mad they went engineer and pyro last wave and airblasted one of the boss bots with a health bar infinitely so it couldn’t leave its spawn and basically made the tour unwinnable. It’s a shame how one weapon can get some members of the community so upset that they go out of their way to waste the time of people just for having it equipped.
So what I've learned from this video is that in MvM, a cooperative gamemode, people want optimal setups, but hate this weapon because it's too good and makes you win too quickly. Makes total sense.
yes people generally dont like it when something is so good it trivializes everything and removes a good chunk of the fun factor IE killing robots
@@TheGhostFart you can trivialize MVM by clicking "refund upgrades" then about 12 more clicks or so and boom you've beaten every single wave easily. Hell if you really want too just buy the resistances, could probably make it buy with just that and teammates that aren't lobotomites.
@@TheGhostFart Explosive Headshot....you do realize that exist right?
Even without gas passer you still won too quickly
You had explosive headshot and scottish resistence which arent hard to use at all as well...
And lets not forget refunding...
The problem is that ppl alredy got used to the missions they got, if only missions become harder...
So if I’m playing Pyro in MvM Ask if I should equip Gas before hand if people wanna play that way with a spammable get out of jail free card?
So let me get this straight (I don't even play MvM except for Bootcamp):
People don't like pyros using the Gas Passer because it... makes the game easier and more fun for new players, allows new players to make a significant contribution to the game and allows your team to win faster?
And their reaction to new players having fun yet also playing optimally and the team easily winning a wave is... to complain about the player online and prevent them from joining MvM teams?
Yep, I'm glad I don't play Mann Up.
Okay here's the thing tho, the gas makes it TOO easy. Like, imagine if you downloaded an mmo, and had someone help you beat the game while you did nothing. Kinda unfun, right? That's what the gas feels like. If high tours only wanted to get the wave done quick, they'd download aimbots (Because valve doesn't have a functional anticheat god damit) and maybe a Pyro for tanks. People with over 15 tours play it for fun, not to sit back and let the Gibbus Pyro solo the wave.
@@aprofessionalgamer5355 That opinion is subjective to the people, sometimes being overpowered IS fun for people, and thus those sorts of players should play with others that like that, it's better to just segregate communities on this situation rather than have them comingle.
@@aprofessionalgamer5355 Ok? I’d rather blast through the waves and get closer to the reward than have a tacobot team where they force me to use the meta and we slowly crawl to the end
@@jthablaidd Then queue up with people that agree with you. If 3 or more people don't want you using the gas, then don't use it.
@@aprofessionalgamer5355 hah! You act like I got freinds
things people tolerate in MvM: cheating
things people votekick in MvM: gaspasser
High Tours are a speciel breed of degenerate
Valve's already cutting out the cheating part.
@@rikielanasui742Now sure but cheating in mvm was typical for ages
I don't find the Gas Passer boring. It's always funny watching huge groups of small bots just... disappearing. Plus, I want to get a tour done in a reasonable amount of time, which the Gas Passer helps do. Plus, it does the same thing as a sticky trap or an explosive headshot, so I don't understand any argument against it except the "it takes no skill" argument.
And no, you don't have to memorize robots for the Scottish resistance. I've absolutely carried tours with it by detonating it based on reaction. Maybe it makes it easier if you memorize it, but you don't need to.
@@Tom-cj5wt But who said you had to be good, the only way to become good is by playing and if you're a cunt to every Gas Passer Pyro they're never going to get better in the first place
@@Tom-cj5wt not to mention, bootcamp is free.
It's as cool as a shotgun punch with ULTRAKILL
@@Tom-cj5wt Trying to both have fun *and* get everything done super efficiently is kinda near impossible though. It's like trying to have your cake and eat it too: either it's going to be too easy, or it's going to be comedic while hard. Metas make it boring, while meme builds make it fun.
Why can't Heavy Bots speak?
Because they're ALL DEAD.
What makes me upset about the whole gas passer hate is that a "small" group of people decided that they didn't like the new weapon and bullied others into not using it, hindering potential experimentation with it. A meta shaking weapon was introduced, and instead of letting the meta shift naturally around this new weapon, they decide to axe it right away (not to defend the poor design of mvm gas passer). Its like when people called to ban Hero in Smash Ultimate when he was released because they thought his random crits were overpowered. Luckily he wasn't banned and a proper meta was able to be formed that showed that the random crits didn't make him the best character.
to be fair, if you get hit by a smash attack, you best be ready to be launched into orbit regardless of who hits you
and funny sword go bu dum dum
also the down b's command list can be an issue if one of the players doesn't speak the language the game is being played in, since they're unable to read what spells have appeared each time down b is used, putting them at a disadvantage
@@khaos4965 the names are all made up RPG stuff, unless it's JP vs EN, you can just memorize it
Thats the hardcore tf2 meta.
6es ruined the games balancing and fun ages ago by Valve pandering to them
MvM is doing the exact same thing to themselves
People didn’t think hero was overpowered. They thought random crits were an awful idea which it WAS. Randomly a smash attack can be a game and watch nine, but hero can’t roll 1. Hero was not and is not a balance issue overall. It’s just very much the BAD kind of variance. Much like random damage spread in TF2, which was removed. Hero still has variance without crits or wack/twack, and that’s be far less frustrating to face. There isn’t counterplay to getting one-shot at zero percent cause your opponent got lucky.
Honestly, this is why I'd rather play with friends in MvM more than random teammates, because they don't have a problem with the Gas Passer
Hell, one of them even recommends it and they're more experienced at pyro than me, even gave me advice on what loadouts to use and what class
Thus, my first ever tour was actually pretty easy and fun
You need to find better friends
@@LasermanSteam you need to go outside and touch grass.
I dunno friends who agree with your personal tastes on gameplay sound pretty amazing to me
@@LasermanSteam Lmao go cry to your "friends" on tacobot or wherever you hang out
@@LasermanSteam Angry 100+ tour moment
I was originally going to go on a long essay breaking down why each of these points are incredibly stupid. But halfway through, I realised something:
MvM elitists will create entire websites, countless forum threads and long ranty "guides" to "weed out the worst" from the funny robot-smashing paid side-mode in a free game. They create total circlejerk communities full of people who, quite literally, believe the exact same thing as them...
...yet they somehow can't pick 5 of these people who meet their exact requirements for an "ideal MvM player" and party up with them.
What?
The secret is that sometimes, the stated reason for being an asshole is an excuse, and assholery itself is the real end goal.
They can't form a team within the community because no one with this kind of mindset is willing to play support.
If I've learned anything from TryHards, it's that the only people TryHards hate worse than regular people are other TryHards.
When I play MvM I just want to win fast and have some fun. And Gas Passer does just that. And people will still complain. The MvM side of the community keeps me from wanting to play this mode at all.
It's not too bad on Washington and Cali servers, but you do occasionally run into a bad egg or a cheater or something like that. That's just the game. I only play MvM with at least two friends so if kicks are thrown around, nothing gets done, lmao
I can see, but I don't know what's fun about killing everything instantly on wave 1, I like how you slowly gain more power
@@aust8165 some other weapons are stupidly powerful too but don't get that much attention because they are old I guess?
Play how you want, this video just showcases that some players have such a fragile ego that they cant accept someone doing well without being a tryhard
I'm still gonna use the Gass passer, cuz it's fun to watch things go boom in the funny weed zone.
Oh woe is the Gas Passer...
Too useless in Casual and Competitive to be used, taking too much effort to fill and dealing practically no damage.
Too useful in MVM that it makes other players unsecure of their own performance, who then decide to rid of the gas users...
I truly feel absolute pity for this weapon that is seen with such vitrol from everywhere all at once.
Seeing that blacklist was mind boggling lmao, Mald vs. Machine
this ones going into the chatbind toolbox. “mald vs. machine” cant wait to sling that at a high tour toxic goon
Hearing tryhards reaction to the gas passer just sounds like they got exactly what they deserve, and I hope valve never changes it.
I hope Valve buffed it in mvm lmao
@@willidk628 honestly I wanna see the reaction of the haters (specifically the ones who attack others for using it) when it gets buffed
TF2 not getting an update makes tryhards seethe about everything lmao. TF2 players like this are petty af they're the saddest shit that ever exists on this planet lol.
You can't convince me players like these doesn't have a sad life. We have normal players playing the game and we have tryhards who don't want you to enjoy the game. Seriously, what's up with the TF2 fanbase being as worse as Minecraft players malding about KeepInven lmao
"I hope the game is unbalanced and poorly designed so people I don't like don't enjoy it"
@@vanilla8956 Pyro is a power class honestly, sure the gas passer is the least ethical way to show you are to get things done fast but if it works and its within every players capability then in my opinion its fine. The need for it to be nerfed does not outweigh the need for players that auto lock pyro to get better at the class and become more of valuable resource to the team with or without an item that does insane damage.
If you’re an MvM player that plays for the actual gamemode, then sure, be mad.
But most high tour MvM players are only playing it for loot, so there’s literally no reason to be mad at the gas passer in this case; you’re just getting your results quicker.
@@Tom-cj5wt So then why do people open cases? Or make bets? Or go to Casinos? Or buy lottery tickets?
@@Tom-cj5wt *”unless you get extremely lucky”* there you go, you figured it out. Thanks for finally agreeing with me
Nah you just explained why most high tours do play for loot
@@youtubealt243 what are you on about
I play Payday 2 for the game itself but I still go full meta with CR805B's and Grimm 12 gauges paired with Anarchist (now Leech). If that gets boring then I play a different game.
What always confused me about MVM's attitude towards the gas passer is just the fact that I have never seen anyone else in TF2 develop such a vitriolic hatred for an overpowered weapon; I mean the Phlog and Scorch Shot aren't even banned in most competitive modes, let alone subject to a mass-kicking campaign by the community.
For all the power the Phlog has, any half-decent comp player will know to never touch that pyro with a ten foot pole. It's only really hated because in pubs there's just a whole bunch of goobers dogpiling down a choke that a Phlog pyro with a medic can just go ham with kritz and uber (assuming that there's not a sentry gun or sniper in the way.)
@@dukeofasg3280Or in the modern 100 player mode where it's really the only option for killing enough people to make a difference.
@@dukeofasg3280or they just wait for choke points everyone has to use in casual and gets everyone as well as the goobers
As a guy who is a Phlog main, I mainly use it in MVM purely for the MMPH. Temporary invulnerability and critical hits for a few minutes. Of course I bring a few canteens with me in case I run out of ammo
gambling is very damaging to your mental health
I think we can agree that using the gas passer and finding out the “explode on ignite” upgrade for the first time was the most fun we had in a while.
Especially before they nerfed it. Holy fuck Ghost town was fun with that abomination
If the gas passer loses explode on ignite even if it was given a slow upgrade like the mad milk, it would immediately drop to c most likely d tier
I did not have the pleasure to use the gas passer before the nerf but I remember the first time using it and it was so fun
But Sniper headshot explosion is still more broken
@@Ultra289 it does less damage for higher cost, wtf are you talking about? skill argument aside, the gas passer also is unlockable by achievement, unlike the most optimal sniper rifle for explosive headshots
...OK ok let me get this straight.
These people, care so much about "fun" and "testing their skill" that they would advocate instakicking people for playing optimally... on a mode where you have to PAY PER TOUR TO PLAY.
*OF COURSE THEY'RE GOING TO PLAY OPTIMALLY, THEY ARE LITERALLY PAYING REAL MONEY TO PLAY THERE* Do YOU want your chance at an Australian being ruined? I don't think so
It's a game at the end of the day. Deal with it.
@@x-blood93 That literally can be said by any side about any _thing_ in any game.
To nitpick, you only pay when you win. When you lose, you just burn time. The video description of "the slowest slot machine ever" is completely accurate. So high-tour players are divided between some people who are grinding to try and actually profit (usually people in poor countries) and some people who are chasing the dragon of that blend of challenge and glory. But when that doesn't work out for either camp, there is always the option to either boot the non-conformist, or drop out and rematch.
@@x-blood93 ah yes i payed $2 just to play a round so that i can get a chance of getting an australium and then later get kicked by some scum tour 2k player trash talking that i use a gas passer and wasted 30 minutes there on wave 5/6
imagine u worked so hard in there and then all of that gets kicked
Damn if you pay for mvm you are a clown. I would never pay for a fucking game mode
Being a medic main, i get the same amount of flack and hate when i heal a pyro using the gas passer in MVM.
It got to a point where me and the gas passer pyro i was healing got kicked out of the game for just hogging the kills.
This kind of shit is why I switched my main class to Sniper.. I don't have to interact with the team, snipe groups of ennemies and slow scouts and as long as I do my job proprerly, the players will leave me the fuck alone
I remember this one mecha engie we had a sniper join and people wanted to YEET him for the sin of trying to snipe but we told them "let them play then we will kick if bad" and sniper mowed th bots down cuz he was a Plat ranked sniper.
Once he blew the test we had him and um it got really boring but we were making fun of instant kick mcgee so that was fun
Imagine kicking your medic and best damage dealer mid run, limiting yourself to a team of 4.
They basically destroyed themselves better than the robots did.
@@Apolleh Kick the Medic is absolutely stupid. Especially when simply asking no parser would have solved the issue from the start.
I was scout on a game and I felt like playing Pyro last wave. I asked if the parser was okay, they asked me not to use it, I equipped the detonator and the game ended fine
I think far more important than the debate over whether or not the Gas Passer is okay to use is the need for the community to be more civil and polite to each other. Asking a new player to change to a better weapon or adapt their strategy when it isn't working is fine, but shouting at them and kicking them before they're even given a chance is a different beast entirely.
Yeah I was on my first two missions yesterday and I’m a scout main so I looked up the mvm meta so I would be helpful and on my second mission by the 4th wave someone told me I missed $75 and explained how I wasn’t doing the best as scout so I switched to heavy and they guided me on what upgrades to buy. It was a good experience
yehh last mvm few chapps told me to switch. I refused. Even in potato servers it is nerfed, I got most damage by the end.
Yeah that's how MVM should be played. Last wave on a very difficult map, I asked about going Spy because of the sapper upgrade and one of them said to either go Spy or Sniper due to the giant Heavy bots and their Medic support. I went Spy and sapped the bots, allowing the team to pick them off. They also recommended I upgrade my knife too for more damage against big bots. And when we failed, I went Sniper and was a lot better. Even had a guy say on my steam that I was a good MVM player, willing to listen to the team and was strategical. Very wholesome
TLDR: MVM players rip their monitor apart when the imaginary number on their screen isn't high enough
Society
@@S3w3rSh4rk0
We live in it
Back in the day, Gas passer got charge from it's own dealt damage.
Endless amount of canteens, like X10 MVM, but legit...yeah, it was too OP. All the hate weapon receives would be justified then, and ONLY THEN.
TLDR: gas cancer joins MvM and uses exploits lol
and in casual they like "y u so mad about cheaters????? no no its different cheaters are not intended and gas is intended so it's fine!!111"
@@SU76M The fock you mean m8?
Whilst everyone is entitled to their opinion, I really think it’s childish to get so pissy over one weapon, especially when you’re playing MvM for the loot (I can understand that it neuters the game if you’re trying to have fun, even then though, it’s not going to solo the whole wave).
I personally have no problem when Pyro’s run this as I don’t think it does any harm (and it’s by far Pyro’s best secondary weapon, not like there was much competition in the first place.)
I always laugh when I see high tourers get so angry on this topic because it just seems like they have nothing to complain about. It could use being taken down a few pegs if people really wanted it but because the people who do have a problem with it is such a vocal minority that it’ll never happen.
@@Tom-cj5wt Pyro is upgraded properly can still be a useful class, even a niche med picker with the third degree. if he had robots aggro into teammates and has HoK, Pyro is better for close range deeper in enemy territory than Heavy is due to Pyro's mobility.
@@Tom-cj5wt oh yeah. Pyro is a class that actually requires some brain\skill to use like Spy or Sniper to be able to make tge most out of the class in MvM.
specially in mann up tour where i literally gives you free items, cause it's easy to win
But really ticks me off about this and the whole kicking people for using it it's happening in boot camp the no rewards just for fun game mode. Also a smart pyro with the gaspasser will primarily focus on say the tank with their primary and throw the gaspasser when they see a large group of enemies trying to make a push, but of course you have the the toxic MVM player that goes reeeee you are stealing my kills. Seriously it takes me off that this is not just happening in mann up mode but in boot camp.
Also 99 percent I'm I equip the gaspasser it is to deal with the Medics around a giant so they can't pop Uber.
My rule about it is:
Mann up = passer
Boot camp = no passer
I just want to say that low tour ≠ bad player/less experience. It might just mean they don't want to spend money on a gamemode. You can play lots of boot camp (the free mode) and become experienced with the game, but you don't spend money to buy tickets. Mann Up is not the only way to play mvm, so tour count should not be a way to measure a players experience
Yeah, i got only one tour and i'm good at the gamemode since i'm always playing on moded wave 666 maps.
Yeah
I’m (imo) great at mvm
But only really at knowing what to shoot and where to position myself, not at the memorizing the waves
Badge deleters exist too, as well as people who either leave last second or complete the same missions leaving only one not done. Smurfs, etc. I've came across a lot of "low tours" who play like they have several hundred
I play mostly community, but I used to play Mann Up loads...My trick was, though, that I just didn't finish a tour. I left one mission undone. This meant I could play the best maps consistently for fun. The problem, you might notice, is at some point people just don't believe that you've played as much as you claim because a number didn't tick up on a virtual badge...and so, after a certain point (probably around a year or two after Two Cities) it just became impossible to play with folks who weren't, at least seemingly, on the same tour count...even if I had played far more than your average player at the time.
At this point, though, it's just not worth it. Finishing those old, undone tours to rank up feels a waste of time and money; dealing with Tacobot and its ilk is a waste of sanity; and having to justify one's self to strangers in order to play a video game is a waste of one's own self worth. At a certain point the Mann-Up community became too much for the average player and so, now, the average players of today are the ones who have been playing for a long time--not new players. It's a dying community in a sense as new blood is stifled far before it gets invested.
Community servers are a whole other thing, though. Removing the loot element (minus the cool badges) and adding moderation has made MvM something anyone can enjoy again without having to enter a 4chan shouting match if they don't play to exact specifications. It's nice. You won't get anything super valuable out of it, but it's far more worth one's time at the end of the day...and you also don't spend money every time you play a game...so, that alone is a win.
@@Jarethenator you're not wrong. It's why at a certain point I wonder what people like that think they are accomplishing by scaring off people. For a game to thrive, it needs to have little barrier of entry. If it has so much of a barrier, then it'll just slowly die out on its own as it becomes some exclusive club where I sure hope you enjoy beating each other off, and believe me when I say most of the Mann Up players despise each other; you can check yourself by casually browsing mvm lobby
Mind you, internet ego doesn't help when you try to point out things to people either, making it difficult for the old blood to want to deal with the new blood. Still, MvM isn't so demanding that it warrants such a power trip from people when the janitor and two office plants that maintain TF2 can clear a mission.
I always saw the gas passer as the "I want an Australium, fast" weapon. I didn't see it as an issue, probably because it made the game easier and go by quicker. If you are playing mvm for entertainment, then i can see it being a little annoying to not have a chance to kill the smaller robots. But people really kick players for simply wanting to win?
If people wanted MVM for fun they would play it casual and not spend 4 fucking dollars a pop
@@vroomkaboom108
Exactly, if you are going into the paid ticked mode then I assume that you are doing so for rewards and for somewhat optimizing the winning part so it's as fast as possible. If you truly want to have fun go to casual or buy a better team
game like Deep Rock Galactic, it'll probably be even cheaper considering how long it takes to get good drops in MVM.
(I don't mean that in a way that is "either this or get out" but more in like disproving the "fun" excuse a lot of people who hate the gas passer give)
(Also, if you think about it, the true fault of this even happening is VALVE not updating the game mode and not allowing for the creation of servers of this mode where you can place a title like "No Gas Passer 5+ Tours min." so you can separate tryhards from casuals)
Or it's the "the rest of the team can't take out the Uber meds very well" weapon
I always felt like how they could improve the gas passer, for both mvm and pvp, is to make explode on ignite innate, but significantly lower the damage, but for mvm give it damage upgrades, allowing it to return to it's former OP glory, but costing significantly more. Maybe make it 500$(same as the grenade launcher) per damage upgrade to offset the ridiculously strong effects. Just my two cents.
Reducing the damage to 70(?) damage (plus afterburn) and add 500 cred damage upgrades (similar to stickybombs) sounds like a good idea to me
@@LoraLoibu in pvp 70+afterburn is 70+80 or enough to one hit squishies and medics so maybe tone that down to like 30
@@hot-basta5249 yeah that's fair
I was thinking 35 base damage and then damage upgrades could give it a x2.5 damage increase per upgrade up to a max of x10, putting it back at 350 when maxed
@@bloodymask6710 yeah 35 sounds good too, 115 damage total
Came back to TF2 this year for the first time since 2015, and I'm starting to understand why every server is filled with bots and why these kinds of videos exist.
I loaded up casual after soooooo long and I immediately left the server. I am saddened by the current state of the game. I'm getting my fix by maining Mercy on OW but it just doesn't give that satisfaction as playing Medic or Engie
@@ManvinderSinghWalia Then find community servers. It's pretty easy to do.
@@OutlawedPoet any good recommendations
@@ManvinderSinghWalia Uncletopia and skial vanilla. Uncletopia if you want a more serious, almost competitive-like experience, and skial vanilla if you want a more casual experience. If you want a server where you can play on one specific map or mode, just type the map/mode name in the "Map" box. If you want CTF servers, type "ctf" and hit refresh. If you want to only play 2fort, type "ctf_2fort". You get the idea. Be sure to look at the server names, since some of them include plugins like instant respawn, which you may not want.
While you're at it, I recommend giving some of the custom modes a try, like deathrun, vs saxton hale, class wars, etc. I've dumped over a thousand hours in deathrun and vs saxton hale alone.
@@OutlawedPoet thank you so much. I'll check them out and also class wars, I've heard it's "good"
“The best solution to a problem is always the easiest.”
-GLaDOS
Indeed, yet pro players somehow think that killing Robots with the single most overpowered secondary is hard.
I played MVM for the first time last night. I had no idea what I was doing and I was immediately told to go phlog Pyro with the gas passer. Now I don't have a Gass passer but I do have a phlog and I had a great time. My teammates were all 200+ tour and very helpful to a brand new player.
It’s surprising how the Gas Passer is so polarizing between MVM and the normal game. In PVP, the Gas Passer is so bad, but in MVM, it’s so overpowered, and the perspective on it shifts so much from that.
On the contrary, it’s actually quite common for weapons in this game to be like that.
The fact that TF2 players are crying because they can't get enough digital points that mean 0 jackshit than a brainless Pyro is soothing in the eyes lol. Good thing I quit TF2 fandoms. The toxicity is average League of Legends player levels and it's NOT an exaggeration.
@@rane7784 the only difference between a TF2 Sweat Tryhard and a LoL Sweat Tryhard is that the quantity of LoL Sweat Tryhards is bigger, otherwise it's literally the same
@@M0D776 I mean yea League does average like 100x the average unique playerbase of TF2. I'd be amazed if there weren't more tryhards lol. I'm pretty sure there are more ranked League players then there are TF2 players in general.
the duality of man
MvM is the highest concentration of actual man children i’ve ever seen.
idk if you have ever played it but l4d2 somehow has even more of them, it is incredible how grown adults will cry and votekick you over the tiniest mistake.
@@galilean2023 its crazy lol, people will rage over any mistake when games like this are small
@@galilean2023 l4d2 is only fun with friends but i dont have any lmao
@@sarahh08 same
Mannchildren vs machine REAL!??!??!?!!?!
I actually did a survey when I kept playing MVM (I like expiraments and I quit because of the nuclear waste that is the MVM community). I played primarily 3 Classes that I was the best at: Soldier, Medic, and Pyro. I just wanted to see how often I got kicked as each class out of 10 matches as each AND I had the meta loadouts for each
Medic: only once because I rebound my keys and I couldnt activate the shield to save my life
Soldier: only got kicked 3 times because of MG (im sorry I want to be flashy at one point)
Pyro: 7 times just because of Gas Passer.
after the survey I just decided that MVM wasnt really worth it afterwards since money and I know my luck.
I do use the Gas Passer fairly often, not really because it's optimal or anything but because I have fun using it in MvM, that's all there is to it on my end, it's just something I find really fun. I do understand some points though.
Having not played in years and just going off what I vaguely remember, I thought the answer would've been that it takes the fun from the other classes because the pyro kills everything instantly
for everybody else: yes
for high tours only: no
The thing is that it doesn’t destroy certain huge bots well at all,
so what i'm taking away from this, is that, the reason the gas passer became hated was it made the high tour players that spent forever 'optimizing' feel stupid because it allowed less skilled players to suddenly preform on par with them or carry teams, as if MvM wasn't a massive cesspit of elitism, toxicity, and idiots who thought using the optimum weapon made them good even though they where trash and couldn't hi the broad side of a barn.
No, because it means pyro players will never learn how to play without gas, and most of the challenge in certain waves is suddenly gone.
It is genuinely satisfying to beat a difficult wave by your and your own team's merit, rather than abusing a broken mechanic that Valve missions weren't designed around.
Let's say one day, an update for Half-Life 2 drops that makes the SMG instakill and gives it explosive bullets, where the explosion also insta kills and there is always an invincible NPC on your side that follows you with this SMG. Do you think the game would be more fun? Do you think that, if the game had released with this, it would have been as praised as it was?
@@bernardonegri5416 Thank you for proving my point.
See nothing about your comparison is fitting because Half Life 2 is a single player game and nothing about the gaspasser makes anyone invincible in the game. So that's just a bad comparison 1 to 1.
So instead of coming up with a good comparison of PvE mechanics you pick the biggest game you could think of and tried to act like this one item suddenly ruins everything. If you want to make a team to win via merit you would have a team, however the gas passer is clearly designed for randoms by people who just want to get the rewards specially cause of how often they do tours.
So again a 'pro player' being salty that someone can pull weight for a random team and getting salty that 'lesser players' get to do well just by playing a mechanic valve added.
@@KenshiImmortalWolf There is no difference between singleplayer games and multiplayer games in that the ultimate purpose is to have fun.
It does make a very significant impact on a game, especially on certain waves. I've seen bootcamp teams who were struggling on wave 1 suddenly start steamrolling the robots once someone equipped the gas passer.
If people just want to get the rewards as fast as possible, why do so many people hate the gas passer?
Point being, MvM players want to have fun, and the gas passer ruins that fun by eliminating challenge.
@@bernardonegri5416 I have never seen someone show such a massive ignorance of gaming in their first sentence.
"There is no difference between single player and multiplayer" Once you say this it doesn't matter what you say unless the answer is "in that they are both games." For that is the only immediate thing they have in common.
It's like saying "There is no difference between doom eternal and minecraft."
To say that they are no different in their ultimate goal is to have fun is 'true' but it's such a blanket statement that it doesn't Mean anything in a real debate. Mostly because there is no 1 type of 'fun' as what i want to enjoy and have fun doing in a single player game, such as to pick at random breath of the wild, and a multiplayer game such as to pick at random, rocket league, are so very different.
However let's address the rest of your comment because it deserves that much even if you shot yourself in the foot with you're opener.
As for "Why do so many people hate the gas passer." Because Rageful few are often loud and seem more numerous then they actually are because they make an effort to come off as speaking for a majority when they rarely are. Also "if they just want to get through quickly why are so many people angry at the gaspasser" This is to consider that these two groups are the same. They are not. The people who hate the gaspasser are not the same people who want to just get through the tours the absolute fastest atleast consciously.
People who just want the rewards tend to not give two shits when a gaspasser is on the field and those that want to do it quickly but bitch about the gaspasser do not actually want to get through quickly they want to get through it 'the skillfull artful way of mastery' which is just fancy speak for wanting to not feel like they wasted their time which is an entirely internalized position.
"point being MvM players just wanna have fun and the gas passer ruins this." Oh i'm sorry i wasn't aware you where the chosen ambassador of all MvM players.
No You want to 'have fun' and 'have a challenge' which stops being a challenge once you beat it the first time because once you actually beat it you've over come it specially if you're playing with an actual coordinated team, if you fail past that point it's due to poor team work and that isn't a Challenge that's just obnoxious.
@@KenshiImmortalWolf Neither of us can speak for the majority of the playerbase. You are right in that. However, I am confident most people who dislike the gas passer share a position similar to mine.
I could also say that people who like the gas passer are a "Rageful few that are often loud and seem more numerous then they actually are because they make an effort to come off as speaking for a majority when they rarely are". Neither of us can say what ratio of the playerbase approves or disapproves the gas passer.
In a sense, Half-Life 2 single player is indeed pretty similar to MvM TF2, disconsidering that one is SP and the other is MP. Both are shooters, linear, PvE game(modes) where you fight AI controlled enemies.
It is not "not feel like they wasted their time". It is because people genuinely enjoy challenges, and the gas passer takes away that enjoyment. That is why we have multiple difficulty levels. People who just want to steamroll robots can play on Normal and Intermediate and people who want a challenge can play Expert. But if Expert becomes Intermediate because of it, there are gonna be debates. And some people like tacobot (not that I support them in any way) are gonna start kicking others on sight.
Due to TF2 being multiplayer, the challenge keeps going even after you beat it once, because never two times you play are going to be exactly the same. And that is what I find fun, adapting to the weaknesses and strengths of your team. Not using overpowered mechanics to make Expert feel like Intermediate. If I wanted to play in a difficulty similar to Intermediate, I'd play Intermediate.
I couldn't care less if it is done via "the skillfull artful way of mastery". I just want Expert to feel like Expert and Advanced to feel like Advanced.
In your 1st reply, you argue that the gas passer EoI only exists so randoms can complete tours faster. I say that is not good enough to justify its existence. The rewards at the end of each tour should be a bonus, not the sole goal. Of course, for Valve, it is the sole goal, and that is a conflict of interest communities like Potato and Moonlight solve.
My point: people who just want to wreck robots can play on Normal and Intermediate, and people who want challenges can play on Expert. People play on expert because it is challenging, and gas (and other OP mechanics) ruin that challenge. Playing for loot shouldn't be a thing.
Havent played MvM in awhile, but I actually saw a tacobot use the gas passer in the match I was in
he's no longer with tacobot, so I wonder why that happened.
good for him :)
I feel like tacobot shit on him for using it and (maybe) fired/kicked him out
Im actually suprised that the website you mentioned had a blacklist for 'no two way'. i play engi regularly in MVM and i don't ever usually pick that upgrade. in my experience if your teams doing well there shouldn't be any bots getting past anyway. and scout and soldier can easily run-down any stragglers with their mobility. it frees up the cash for more building health and damage upgrades. And in-between rounds you can just killbind/switch class temporarily to get back to spawn for upgrades.
it's to buy cantines in the middle of the wave without wasting too much time. actually a really good strategy
It's not about bots getting past. Imagine being on Bigrock on a class like Phlog Pyro or Soldier with a fully charged banner at the end of a wave, and you want that charge to use right when the next wave starts. You have two choices: walk all the way back to spawn to upgrade, probably from the cave, and waste your teammates' time, or killbind/switch back and forth between classes to respawn and lose your charge. Two-way isn't an expensive upgrade either, especially for helping teammates in certain situations like previously stated, unlike something like the extra mini sentry upgrade for very negligible DPS - you could start a wave and have a Soldier with a banner ready to go, or Phlog Pyro with a charge ready to go to quickly clear out the first hordes or make a large dent in a tank if the wave starts with one without needing a crit canteen.
"It's an injustice" is the most melodramatic thing I've heard in a long time, especially for a game in shambles the way this one is. I can't help but wonder if people would have cried this much if it was the Brass Beast that dropped during Jungle Inferno and changed the heavy meta. Leave it to MVM nerds to get mad about finishing tours a little faster.
Brass beast isn't even that good over stock.
On the other hand, Gas Passer is the absolutely best by an extremely long shot.
@@bernardonegri5416 To be fair that's not a big hurdle for pyro secondary weapons
@@bernardonegri5416 While that's true, I still think many of the same people that hate the gas passer would probably still say the brass beast is a bad weapon since it helps heavy, a class that takes less skill than sniper and demo, which are probably make up the bulk of those who scream about the passer the most.
@@Dizzy330 "it helps heavy, a class that takes less skill than sniper and demo" perfectly said by someone who never played Heavy and doesn't understand the insane amount of practice and gamesense that is needed to even main the class effectively.
@@dragonandavatarfan8865 thanks for completely missing the point of my post. The same people who trash the gaspasser so fiercely would do the exact same if something was added to elevate the effectiveness of a class that is considered to have less skill by the status quo elitists.
While I agree gas passer is still the dullest, most boring weapon, but I'd argue Scottish Resistance is VERY close to this.
At best it requires the barest of minimum of one teammate communicating with you telling you where to put stickies (or you can memorise it ofc) but after this, Scottish Resistance IS near as boring as gas passer.
Only Sc. Res is more of a boring giant killer then hoarde killer, so in a way it's still more fun since players can still have fun by killing smol robots, plus most giants(Especially in custom mvm) can survive crit stickies
I dislike the gas passer, and really dislike stickies due to the fact that they instakill robots, which takes away need for teamwork, the reason I like TF2. At least the explosive headshot is fun to use
I sometimes run the Gas Passer (I get told off if I use anything else but then again I get told off for using it) but keep it in reserve for if someone's about to die.
eh; the ability to have 15 stickies i can explode selectively; rather then 8 all at once. people love to shit on the gas passer; but between all the other "why is this here in your loadout?" i don't question a demo who uses a resistence right.
"boring" i don't understand the reasoning. the default sticky is just shoot n explode. the resistance you literally have to remember shit. soooo... less is more? okay.
The Scottish Resistance is only really a problem because the missions are old and stale (and slow-paced), and too many people have memorized them. All sorts of cheese gets discovered when missions sit for 8 years with no updates. Set a Scottish Resistance Demo in a new, fast-paced mission he's never played before (e.g. Operation Binary Blackout, Operation Digital Directive, etc.), and he's not a problem anymore.
The gas passer is one of my personal favorite weapons in MVM. I’m of the opinion that getting upset that people use an efficient means to beat a PVE gamemode are somewhat misguided.
The gas passer is honestly so good and saves so much time.
I was told that a Demoman is far more effective than a gas pass pyro, which I honestly don't believe
Honestly a Kritz Scot demo is much more busted than a gas pyro
@@thebushbros6626 The reason why people REEEE over passer and not scottish is that scottish requires med kritz and knowledge of spawns. It's another case of dumbasses thinking that just because it takes more skill it's okay if it's broken. Much like sniper in PvP
@@user-lh7mt7zo7l honestly sniper in pvp was never an issue for me since most snipers on pubs are terrible. But yeah it’s pretty BS that no one bats an eye on the Soctissh even tho it’s much more powerful.
@@user-lh7mt7zo7l
Demo and sniper in mvm barely take any skill, they are just robots and with predictable movements and in most times they move slow...
@@Ultra289 I know. I don't agree with them I'm just stating why they don't care about demo and sniper compared to gas passer
Like dude, it’s 4am, I just want to finish this final mission and see if I get an Aussie…let me use the gas passer.
Y’see, this conversation is exactly why communication between players is key. Because I feel a lot of this backlash and hate could be mitigated by proper Comunication and cooperation.
Or just let people play what they want, no conversation needed.
@@HellecticMojo that mentality is what lead to this war between MvM players and PvP casuals in the first place.
@@carolthepyro899 no, it's because they DIDN'T have this mentality and is why the community didn't get along. Like minds do not cause conflict.
@@HellecticMojo they always had that mentality. MvM is a co-op gamemode. you need to work with the needs of the team. if you run say, a huntsman sniper but there's no med picker in the team or missing an engie to keep everyone from fighting for ammo boxes, you already contribute to the problem. Thats why that "just let em play what they want" mentality doesn't fly with most MvM players (who aren't tacobot) and that's why this conflict is happening. the casuals just don't care at all while MvM players are sick of being told off by the PvP players that their opinions don't matter. thats how tacobot was created in the first place.
@@carolthepyro899 seems like it is a self inflicted problem and they failed at their own solution
I think this is my favorite video on this topic I've seen so far.
To me, the gas passer is very contextual in how I feel about it. I believe that EVERYONE should be allowed to play the game if they want to, if they're good or bad, obviously. So if what would otherwise become dead weight that makes us lose the round can all of a sudden become an ounce of competent crowd control, I'd be damned to complain.
I do admit, now that I've played more, I've come to understand the ANNOYANCE with the weapon. Sometimes it can feel a bit unsatisfying to play Soldier when practically every wave of enemies gets blown up before I can do much to them. But I also feel the exact same way about clusters of crit stickies versus giants. They're amusing at first, but at some point, I'd like to do something lol
So it's like, for me, if everyone on the team is crazy competent and good, I'd like a more lax loadout from everyone so that I don't end up doing basically nothing. But if teams are clearly lopsided in skill level, I say those overpowered weapons are more than welcome. Above all else, nothing is more annoying than resetting a wave, so as long as I don't have to do that, I'm happy.
There really does feel like a major hypocrisy with this whole thing that I'm very glad you addressed. People who go out of their way to kick and insult folk for not strictly following the meta have 0 place to complain about the gas passer. It's always struck me as incredibly dumbfounding. Great video!
Did you really drop an essay just to say "Yes and No"?
@@theortheo2401 I feel the whole point of the comment is that we should treat MvM like we do with Casual, or Community Servers, where your allowed to use any loadout either good or bad, where as if we try to complain about someone on the opposite team using a bleeding weapon to change into a different loadout that is generally one person and we would not feel pressured to do so because we find their overreaction funny! Yet if we do the same in MvM, you’d either be pressured by the entire team to swap off to “THE META” or be kicked because you aren’t good! TF2 is generally an very accepting game for new players,(aside from being perm muted because of bots) but MvM has become soo delusional that the community makes it to where new players cannot TRY their favorite loadout from Casual or Community Servers and allow them to figure it out that their loadout selection might not be the best because TF2 is already a complicated game especially for newer players. But MvM is even more complicated because there is strategy involved soo much that it makes newer players who are already confused with TF2, even more so!
@@lugismansion2400 Especially as if you fail a Wave, Good people see what went wrong and what to change or do at that part to build it.
The META slaves demand you already know everything on the test and if you screw ul once you are done cuz they dont got time to teach!
@@lugismansion2400 did you just drop an essay to summarise an essay?
@@charlesturner897 it reminds me of when a mom asks 5 questions and wonder why her son has to write a book report on it.
you don't use the gaspasser because you think its unfair
i don't use the gaspasser because my pc cant handle all the effects and explosion particles
we are not the same
That final statement is exactly how I feel about the Gas Passer. As someone farming Tours for golden pans in my downtime, I don't mind a competent pyro (or even a 1 Tour if he understands the basics) using Gas since that just speeds up my own time and I can get to the next tour faster. Of course, if I drop into a Tour as a Gas Pyro myself and high tourer have gathered for something like Melee Only or Demoknight Only or Sniper Only or anything that doesn't constitute optimal gameplay, I consider whether I want to/have the time for myself to do these slower tours for fun. If not, I disconnect and go to the next but I would not attempt to enforce the use of Gas on a team that clearly wants to do something for fun.
as a side, how would a melee only tour work? that sounds insanely stupid and I wanna try it sometime.
@@RegalRoyalWasTaken There are some obvious choices. Demoknight is of course the designated melee subclass, though it sucks hard early. Sniper makes for a pretty decent hybrid-melee playstyle with the Cleaner's Carbine where the minicrits from the Crickey ability on the carbine are converted into full crits with the Bushwacka. You can go full Medic and chain Ubers with the Ubersaw. But outside of specifically Demoknight and Crickey Crit Sniper, damage output in melee only runs is limited, especially since melee weapons are also limited in the number of upgrades they can recieve.
@@PlutoDarknight the fact that the booties don't have upgrades on themselves does weaken full demoknight somewhat too.
Like, just give additional movement speed bonuses in upgrades, or a mini version of the scout's ability to heal from collecting money (as you'll be in the robots' faces the entire time)
@@sev1120 Which is why I run Iron Bomber, Shield and Sword
MvM Players: *If you play a non-optimal strategy, we will kick you, dox you, and burn your house down, we're here to win*
Also MvM Players: *WAAAH THE GAS PASSER MAKES THE GAME TOO EASY. WE'RE WINNING TOO MUCH.*
I hope valve buffs it.
Sticking it to them!
If valve buffs it high tours will actually end their lives, not knowing that their single mother will use their real name on their tombstone
@@tylerlackey1175 LMFAO 🏳️⚧️💀
@@tylerlackey1175 holy shit god bless
I love the "abandons every single game for an unexplained reason" report from someone who I can guarantee has tacobot in their name. If I see a tacobot in the game join I just leave
I am neutral towards the gas passer, but I first learned about the hate towards it in one boot camp mission where a couple players "insisted" that the pyro switch it off
As someone who only plays MvM solely for the rewards, the gas passer is a godsend that allows me to just sit back most of the time while the Pyro does the bulk of the dirty work.
One thing i find really weird, is that of all the classes, pyro was always the bottom tier class, at least since two cities. Some would put spy on the same tier, but not all, though it may be because those people were good at spy.
Only since jungle inferno and mainly the gas passer cheesing much of a wave, have anyone really come to do... anything for or on pyro in mvm, and even getting a chance to practice pyro in MvM was/is extremely difficult, as people before thought you were throwing a match for picking him, now its either still that or you are being too good and have to get kicked. I just dont get the hate for the weapon or for the class really.
pyro is a good class in mvm, he just gets bad rep because new pyros are infuriating to play with.
spamming airblast and knockback for no reason, accidentally blowing up the engi's buildings by pushing around sentry busters, running headfirst into a giant heavy and dying in 0.3 seconds.
a lot of people just dont know how bot aggro works. its the same reason why people think spy is trash, except you see less people play spy because new players dont wanna play as him (too complex).
i guess thats why people hate the gas passer. why would new pyros learn how bot aggro works when they can just throw gas, kill 10 giant heavies, throw themselves into giants and die, and still get a good damage score?
Bad players and bad classes are two different things.
Pyro has one of the best damage outputs in MVM even without the gas passer. Its always been a high tier must have in mvm. The fuck are you talking about?
@@Jabooduable It's precisely because of bad players using Pyro that gives people the perception that Explode on Ignite is needed to make Pyro good, when in reality it makes Pyro egregiously overpowered
use more periods, please.
This video just makes me want to abuse the Gas Passer as much as possible.
go crazy
go stupid
Same
Same
I havent played tf2 in a long time , but i will download it now , and abuse the fuck out of it , just because i want to hear them cry
@@XplosiveAction agsusgshsvjahanalahsbkshsvsnsm
i was in a lobby and people encouraged the pyro to get explode on ignite, and it made me happy to see people who actually encourage explode on ignite
Remove the recharge upgrades.
Add the explosion into the normal game.
Reduce the explosions damage.
Replace the 400 credit "explode on ignite" with a 200 credit upgrade that increases damage back up to the 350 damage explosion after 3 or 4 upgrades.
Boom
Problem made less stupid
Gas passer now less awful in the normal game.
hire this man
@@Lucafont yes
I was big into MvM back in the day, I was there from day one.
I remember when you failed a wave, you tried again instead of just rage-quitting when you didn't instantly win. It was better days.
I remember when the Gas Passer entered the ring, Pyro went from a class that no one played, like sniper and Demo, to appearing more often as the skill-ceiling was lowered for pyro players, in a similar sense to Medics before Two Cities. (Which was what dethroned pyro in the first place)
I think it's an alright weapon, it can be used as a demoman substitute in some situations, not all. I didn't actually know what the problem with it was, or why it was so heavily blasted on Tacobots website.
I guess the issue was the lack of honesty from people that hate it? Or maybe no one ever really explained it.
Thanks for the good video.
I played MvM when it was first released but haven't played TF2 in a few years, do people actually no longer bother retrying waves? Also, why do people only care about Two Cities nowadays?
@@Juuhazan_ At least back when I played back am few years ago, and two cities are cheaper than other alternatives and offer austraulium weapons
So the Gas Passer initially would recharge from *ANY* damage, even its own, which was overpowered. Blue Moon made that not happen, and currently its really powerful, but definitely not absurd.
Tacobot players are whiny bitches, even players who throw a tantrum and just sit at spawn being the problem, even doing the retry command so they can't get kicked. Even I got marked for not kicking a hacker because I gave up trying to get them kicked since several times I would want them kicked to no avail.
Also, any Advanced/Expert map drops aussies, it's that Two Cities has a safety blanket in the form of worthwhile killstreak kit fabricators.
Pyro's biggest weakness is still giants. Sure, he's got the health of a demoman, but nowhere near the range, so heavy, demo and sniper will still deal with giants far better than you.
Pyro can be an effective substitute for scout, but you've then gotta invest into move speed and jump height to better avoid damage
@@Spiffyo what do you mean by marked? As in they take your player name to their site to be mass blocked by the tacobot users?
Watched videos before starting MvM and i learned "Be respectful, be a team, listen to their concerns"
After completing a tour i learned "Do what you want, fuck em"
8/10 missions with 'high tours' resulted in sperg conniption over a stubbed toe.
I've yet to hear a clear and legit reason not to use gas on youtube, it's literally all hyperbole and unrelated to the item. "Uses gas? Might be a noob", seems like the problem there is the noob part not the gas.
And then when the Pyro doesn't use the gas, the high tours' first response is "votekick, Pyro is throwing"
It's a lose-lose situation
I only play Boot Camp on Expert, and as a Pyro main in both the main game and MvM, I have one thing against the Gas Passer: I kinda get all the kills.
I like to see my team being able to pull their weight and have fun shooting at robots, and hell, you can still steal kills with the Phlog, but that at least is not an instant win button and my mistakes will still be punished.
Tbh complaining about team using broken guns to destroy bits is kind of pointless at the end what matters most is that reward
I mean, maybe it's because I haven't gotten around to playing mvm but, don't you guys wanna shoot robots? Like I play other coop "horde shooters" like l4d, vermin/darktide, and deep rock galactic. If I was playing one of those games and someone used a weapon that is as strong as what this looks like id probably just leave the game. I play these modes for the gameplay and unique builds, but I wouldn't be able to do any of that if I had a teammate that got like 80% of the kills. Why even play at that point?
I'm using the gas passer just despite high tours. It makes the waves faster and helps alot especially in mecha engine where not many people actually know what to do
Having never played MvM but being interested in trying, I was genuinely considering starting out running the Gas Passer for its supportive purposes, basically adding afterburn dps to allies' attacks, cuz I thought hey, this sucks in pvp matches, but against clump-spawning bots it's like a bonafide dps assist, right?
I had no idea this explosion upgrade was a thing and the sheer fallout of it makes me sort of afraid to get into mvm now tbh
Gas passer doesn't have any afterburn and if you wanted to """help""" with afterburn then you'd use your flamethrower... Or scorch shot to stunlock the giant robots, which is just as pointless.
Don't be afraid of doing what you believe to be effective (and just don't play two cities) Gas Passer does have supportive capabilities, yes, but the afterburn window is a tad small so you may have to communicate but it shouldn't be too big of an issue. And if you're really just paranoid don't buy the explode on ignite upgrade until the later waves where giants are more common and don't get transported to another dimention when a molicule of gas gets ignited on a patch of grass next to it
Nah fam this flak is only coming from the "High tour" neckbeards. 90% of the player base will applaud someone using the gas passer because it makes the game easier and faster.
@@Jabooduable even I only get mildly annoyed when abgas passer cloud steals my headshots, but then I quickly forget about it lmao
If by any chance you're still wanting to try, maybe it would be a good idea to look for people who don't mind and play with them.
I recently got into playing tf2 early early this year, after a while of playing community servers with friends teaching me the game we all played mvm.
Me adoring pyro’s flanking, comboing, play style decided to pick him… picked flog due to me being bad at air blasting and still learning it, powerjack for movement, and the gas passer cause I heard in a video it was good there and I had close to no items
We had so much non stop instant quitting from people because of me that we ended up just 3 manning the game… no one wanted to tell me why for all of the hate lol. Now I at least now know why it’s hated so much even if it is still stupid IMO. Would have saved me an hour and half of my time trying to practice air blasting.
aye dodgeball tf2 is really fun, it can help with airblast
Feels bad to not know that though but also fuck those guys. They would quit just because you used it which to me makes no sense because you are hating on a weapon that is utter garbage on casual and is actually useful on mvm. So I would encourage you to use it regardless of what anybody says. Those people are just people with nothing to complain about
I've always feared getting into the MvM community, one of the reasons for it is because I'd heard horror stories of kicks and shaming for playing Gas Passer. While I see it as completely reasonable to be kicked when you're purposefully being a dickweed to disadvantage your own team, ie playing Trolldier, when you've got something as legitimately viable (or in this case, overpowered) as the Gas Passer, I feel that it kinda pushes away new players when you open shame people who use it (hence why I stay away from MvM).
my thoughts exactly
@@Tom-cj5wt nah they just kick you the moment you fall behind even slightly lmao
@@Tom-cj5wt inaccurate.
They will never even bother giving you advice.
Fall behind = kick.
@@Tom-cj5wt don't want to be mean but that might apply to you and some others (by apply I mean the being nice thing) because most of them won't say anything to you unless you have so something they think or is not optimal and care about imaginary scores that don't matter in mvm. I'm casual or competitive it might matter but aside from that it won't
Don't join it, MvM is essentially for losers who were too shit at PVP so they try to heal their bruised ego by shooting at robots. "Haha, me kill computer bot, me so pro uwu"
12:01
You go out of your way to create a resource like this then wonder why your mode is dying or neglected by Valve?
The hatred doesn’t make sense when it’s in, ya know, A PVE MODE
The bots be pissed
They must be simping for the Bots.
You do realize PVE games get balance updates all the time, right
@@zaezae64 Yes but you're hating on your allies for using what they want. Hating on your enemies is one thing. Hating on your teammates is something else. Especially for something like they got a big amount of kills and you didn't.
@@pix985v I don't condone the toxicity certain players employ, but I do not see the issue with not wanting to play with people using overpowered/lame tactics.
Part of the appeal of MVM is the cooperation aspect - everybody has a role.
Gas Passer just invalidates majority of the classes and makes teamwork not required, and this is TEAM fortress.
Gas passer's uber medic killing capability makes Demo and Sniper redundant.
Gas passer's crowd clearing makes soldier redundant
Phlog lets pyro keep up with even heavy in terms of damage.
It all just makes playing the game very boring and unrewarding. This might be fine for people who only play mvm to gamble, but I play mvm to have fun and work as a team. Gas just makes it really hard to do that, since all it takes is 1 competent player with gas to make him the solo carry.
This convinced me to get the Gas Passer for MvM!
Thank you :D
Mofos getting mad because a weapon is op in a PVE Gamemode where everyone wants to finish as fast as possible
It is the perfect weapon to make MvM funny to us, players who wants to chill. I usually do the following: I enter a match, instantly lock on Pyro and state that I will be using Gas Passer, and anyone who's against it can leave. After all crybabies left, I swap back to any other class I wish to play (usually Scout or Medic, or even Pyro with Gas Passer if I'm really on the mood).
PS: Yes, I do my job pretty well when playing as Pyro on an MvM tour. So yeah, I can stand up to what I'm saying here.
Good on you for creating a civil discussion regarding the Gas Passer. I don’t play much MVM but I keep up with it a bit. Very disheartening to see how toxic the TF2 community is at times.
Mvm co unity iż way more toxic then the most toxic casual player
I’ve recently been playing MvM with a friend new to the game, and it was quite easy to explain to him why it’s OP
We’ve had the following discussion many times:
“Holy shit that is a lot of Heavies! We are about to-”
“3… 2… 1… Delete.”
Stickies go boom
11:06 "People dont think its good to abuse a broken mechanic"
Explosive headshot: ...
I mean... Atleast the headshot needs to be landed, not just thrown at a horde with instant damage and kills.
@@mishagaming1075
Do you realize robots are not human right? This isnt casual...
First of all, robots make predictable moves so its not hard at all to hit,they have their own nav mesh to follow unlike humans ,and of top of that most robots move slowly , specially giants which are definetly the main target you want to hit ,just hitting a giant alredy makes more damage than the gas passer itself
And worse of all, for those robots who are not slow, jarate can solve the problem very easily and for emergencies you got canteens which are not rly expensive to upgrade, also that jarate doesnt take rly long to respawn
There is just no punishment for sniper for missing unlike gas passer ,missing a shot or two doesnt matter and missing shots in mvm is incredibly hard unless your internet is garbage
@@Ultra289 First of all, yes, second of all, i shouldn't have even replied like this, third of all, robots can sometimes be unpredictable. But i understand your point.
@@Ultra289 this isn't really a solid argument if we're talking about newer players to FPS games. for a new player, the skill between aiming in a general direction and pressing M1 with a huge window of opportunity and the need to aim at a 'small' head aswell as press the button in the right time is quite significant. also you're never really going to miss with the gas passer so I don't think it matters to compare which one is worse to miss
@@fein-z9b
Even a new player know how to headshot effieciently on mvm
i was playing a game with full high tours who spent the whole game insulting each other for having low damage or low points. it was so inanely insecure it hurt.
I would like to see highlights of community created MvM maps + missions on this channel. These are often so fun and there is so much variety with it.
Funny enough, a few years ago I when i was pretty much new to the game. I eventually tried put mvm for the frist time and my main was pyro at the time. I played as them and would get killed constantly by any bots. After a few games someone said to try and use the gas passer and it made the match actually fun and beneficial to myself and my team. I've been using ever since and it can help my team to deal with huge robots that have Uber bots on them. If you want to play pyro without the gas passer is fine, but if you're having a hard time. Never be afraid to use the gas passer as pyro..
You know I never knew about the gas passer and its unlikability. Hoped into a MVM match and my first loved class was pyro so I said "against robots this will be easy" yeah obviously it wasn't, not because I was fairly new at the game, the bots where way tough so instead of changing class I changed load out until I found that bad boy... I have never been kicked from a game so fast in my life
I think what I find most amusing about the taco bot blacklist is that unless they somehow manage to get Valve to endorse it and add it to the landing page of TF2 for all to see, or somehow get it onto some other publicly visible message board, no one but them can see it. Meaning it's a bunch of unreasonably-upset individuals ciclejerking (I think I used that term correctly? I'm not super savvy in internet terminology.) in their own little chat rooms about people being 'monkey' or 'ape' or 'slave'.
Removing the explosive isn't the way to go if you ask me, nerf the damage to 125-150, enough to one-shot weaker bot classes but doesn't clear an entire attack of bots cause why not.
Make it have nice burst damage but bad DPS, making it only really useful on Scout Waves or Spy checks, not clearing Soldier/Heavy waves
Exactly what i was thinking ever since its been 1-2 MOnths after the initial Change. Hell, even 200 DMG is just fine in my book
I thought about that as well, glad I’m not the only one who had this kind of suggestion in mind about changing it to only one shot the low health classes
I would be happy with it doing like 35-50 on explode and restore the recharge on hit. Atleast then it would still be useful as the spam tool it was released as but not this fucking broken
1 shotting heavies is very dumb, so either 200 or 125 imo
Everyone who wants damage lowered needs to remember the damage they state is almost always going to be doubled due to double ignition. If you aren't going below 150 it still is going to effectively 1 shot heavies and between 100-150 will still 1 shot battalion soldiers because it uses generic damage that bypasses resistances.
People forget that some people don't measure "damage" as the measurement of skill. Some people see "Speed", and "how fast can I finish these waves?"
the worlds slowest slot machine lever is a spot on way of putting mining mvm lol
I have 3k hours in this game, and I never knew there was an actual mvm community
9:20 Eyy who's that medic lol
Anyway, thanks for making this video. I planned on making a video about this a long time ago, but there was just way too many things I had to discuss so I was stuck in the infinite loop of script rewriting. This vid nearly perfectly pointed on the topics I thought about too, great work!
I'd like to add a few on top of this though: Low tour Gas Passer Pyro is unwelcomed cause the majority of them are incompetent. I feel like more high tours are mad when Pyros are ignoring uber medics, airblast spams, dies over and over and over, not when they exceed their damage number. At least for me. It's natural to get annoyed by a teammate who's not doing their job correctly. So if they don't know what the class they picked should do, that implies that they haven't even read guides before even pressing the queue button, so concludes that they're the villain of the story.
And I agree with your conclusion. Just like Soundsmith's 50/50 rule, apply that on MVM. But needs some tweaks of course... I've seen quite a few arrogant newbies who think they're GOAT at the game, refuse to have any kind of advice from teammates. Sometimes they overtake over half of the team, and if it's the case, there's no possible way to 'helpful high tour' can save this game. For these kinda cases, I think we'd better promote this instead: "Don't be scared of leaving the game and re-queue". Leaving MVM servers won't grant you any disadvantages so, try to find teammates whose willing to take your opinion will be always a faster and healthier option. At least based on my experience.
Again, great video. I hope more people understand MVM better, ultimately stop categorizing 'low tours' and 'high tours' as a whole and try to burn the other side.
The Pyro has a long history of having weapons that are seen as overpowered despite other classes possessing the same ability to do the same thing. The arguments for scottish resistance, beggars, and explosive headshots are poor. There even isn't one besides "clicking on head is hard" when it really isn't, especially against bots.
Pretending skill is even a factor in what's basically the PVE mode in a PVP game is also hilarious. Nobody cares how good you are at setting down stickies. With how much bitching goes on in the game mode you can't even say people play it for fun. People might bullshit about and say they just wanna have fun and that mean ol pyro is making it so they don't get their epic kills on literal bots but at the end of the day, it does not matter. People want their aussies. You're spending money to waste time to gamble for gold.
The hate for the Gas Passer makes much more sense as a community MvM wave designer.
Places like Potato MvM allowed the upgrade at first since it was new, but they quickly found out in practice that 'Explodes on Ignite makes it so that you can't actually challenge teams with non-giant robots anymore'
@@luigifan4585 funny thing is... you still can't challenge players with regular bots, judging by the recent event.
@@ReshyShira I personally attribute that to the fact that a good portion of the missions are intermediate, and that the missions were made in a very short amount of time.
@@luigifan4585 Doesnt the toolbox the map makers have since they were able to make custom bots allowes the potato makers to break the gas passer on a spire? I seen medics with shields, bleed dmg, tanks with sentries and that one mining map thay was the W o r s t... I am sure they couls make something.
@@Subject_Keter med shield doesn't block the lingering AoE that would douse them and blow up afterwards.
Pyro can still tank bust even if they're not facing the optimal position.
Don't know what 'mining map' you're talking about?
Cliffside? Underground?
Oh wait you probably meant Rustvalley. Eh that sentry on top of a tank gets hard counter by a Spy just jumping up on top and sapping it
Keep in mind the ignite damage is untyped and thus ignores any resistances, so stuff like Steel Gauntlets will still get melted by gas
I don't play MVM that much anymore, but when I did, I would most often play sniper (being a sniper main, kinda expected). There'd be a "rare" occasion I ran into a GP Pyro, which would make my role basically useless. I've found that telling them (nicely) they can use the Scorch Shot seems to make em happy, so not really losing much in the grand scheme.
"i hate how there is no traffic in the road" basically
So I'm just spitballing here, but would making it so that the Gas Passer doesn't charge from fire damage in MvM make the Gas Passer more balanced?
It would mean that you can only use it once every minute, or 24 seconds with the investment into recharge rate deduction, which would mean you'd have to atleast consider for a moment before using it, and you couldn't just piss em out willy nilly and end up killing everything
Hell if 24 seconds is too much you could just drop the max level of recharge rate on it so that the minimum time is higher
It would be bad imo, at that point you might as well go demo and essentially get a gas passer ready all the times with some seconds of prep required
Either drop the damage recharging it, or replace the recharge rate upgrades with duration upgrades instead (+1 s per upgrade and 2 tiers)
Damn that’s crazy you really convinced me that it’s broken… time to go use it in mvm
I used to do a lot of MvM with my brother and I used gas passer pyro. I didn’t meet too many toxic people and those I did got kicked before I did. However I did get one ‘toxic’ player who gave me a chance and to his credit, he admit it made things faster. Still said he’d prefer a demo or soldier but hell he was mature about it
talking about the gas passer in mvm is like talking about politics at a thanksgiving dinner