@@sergeychistov8162 I thought sticky falloff worked depending on the player’s position to the sticky bomb, and then a short like 0.45 after arm time rampup
I remembered hearing about aiming up to max the flamethrower damage on tanks. This is literally the first video that explains _why_ that is the case. It's like learning the Davinci code and the science behind it in one.
*Ahem* I released my video on December 25, 2022, and I even explain that you can actually aim in a few directions OTHER than just "up". The important part is actually that you're cutting across the corner of the hitbox instead of straight through it. Also, the explanation in this video is just... wrong. Read the captions from the screenshots he included, not the voiceover. The screenshots are the correct explanation.
Maybe it's just not enough people playing the gamemode but from my experience skilled scouts (or whatever class) in mvm can be rly rare, in all honesty I saw scouts who get less dmg full game than me in a single wave lol Once I saw a pyro get outdmged by a med full game lol (and the team said he did a good job) I still see soldiers who forget rocket jumping exists on a regular basis Oh and the skill difference between Mann up and boot camp can barely be anything (but I just play community so idfk anymore) Edit : ig I kinda derailed the topic but it's true lmao
@@M4x_P0w3r Underscore gaming has a scout guide video on youtube. he's the reason i do damage scout nowadays instead of support and i constantly put soldiers to shame on 2cities. you dont need canteens or crit-a-cola, just good upgrades.
Scout is so baller at tank busting, even in early rounds. The key to keeping up with not much money is to equip the Crit-a-Cola and get three Ammo canteens. Shoot three full clips normally, but at the end of the third clip use the ammo canteen and you'll get another clip before the cola runs out and you get your cola back too. Note that while mini crits don't have fall off, they do have ramp up, so using the 35% bonus of mini crits and 75% ramp up of scatterguns, you can get really close to doing full critical damage with just mini crits. Also the Soda Popper's optimal upgrade path for max DPS is firing speed 1 > clip size 1 > damage 1-2 > clip size 2 > damage 3-4 > clip size 3-4.
@@speedody2171 If we're talking Scout in general then you should still take clip size first since it increases your DPS more than the first damage tick. A meatshot clip dump hit and run is pretty much the only thing you should be doing, or else you risk taking too much damage, and missing is pretty hard when you're at max ramp up range. The only time I can think of taking damage first is if you need to be the medic killer, and if it's come to that, you might just want to switch classes or abandon ship.
1:49 mini crits don’t have damage fall-off, but they are affected by ramp up, so it’s definitely optimal to be as close as possible. But yeah, it’s still great to do good consistent damage at any range.
Thank you for not just saying "Heavy should never attack the tank" like I often see people do. Even with the harsh damage penalty, he's able to dish out a lot of carnage to it. And the idea that "Tankbusting is X class's job!" Is how new players lose waves. Everyone needs to do their part. Just as collecting credits isn't exclusively Scout's job.
If the tank is the last objective in the wave, I will go for the tank as Heavy. If not, I only give tanks a little love tap with my Minigun just to increase my Tanks Destroyed strange part (don't ask me why it has that part, it was gifted to me that way).
@@theshermantanker7043 if it's a tank only wave, and you have around 1300 bucks at your disposal. Then yeah, heavy can bust the tank 4 points of warrior's spirit swing speed 2 points of buffalo steak recharge
@@xaviersavard6343 In TF2, for most of the weapons, the damage scales off the distance between you and your target. Under normal circumstances, your weapons' damage is boosted up to 150% at point blank, and reduced down to 50% at long range. So, for example, given that a soldier's rocket's nominal damage is 95 - it will deal up to 142 point-blank, and as low as 47 if you're pestering snipers across the map. In short, we can say that a normal weapon's "damage profile" is: 150% - 100% - 50%. Scout is special in that regard - the high point for his primaries is instead 175%, giving rise to ultra-damaging "meatshots". So his profile is 175% - 100% - 50%. When you're mini-critted, on top of multiplying your damage by 1.45, it also gets rid of the long-distance fall-off (but the close-range boost still stays). Combining both factors together gives a "normal mini-crit profile" at 217% - 145% - 145%, and "the Scout's mini-crit profile" at 254% - 145% - 145%. So, it is still quite beneficial to get into the tank's prostate even when mini-crit-boosted. Full crits, in the other hand, do actually just deal flat 300% - 300% - 300% of the nominal damage, regardless of distance or class.
It's important to note that, once the swords have had their damages upgraded, you can safely swap back to a sticky launcher and maintain the damage bonus.
@@MitchellTheMitch Damage upgrades are only unlocked if you have a shield equipped. If you upgrade the damage of your swords, then unequip the shield, your sword will still have whatever damage upgrades you gave it despite no longer having access to the upgrade.
Seeing that Airstrike soldier delete half a tank’s health in 2 seconds flat, I felt not unlike how a Roman soldier must’ve felt when he found out the other team was bringing elephants to a sword fight.
I remember when jungle inferno was released and the dragon's fury was absolutely broken in mvm tankbusting when you could if I correctly recall buy attack speed upgrades or something. All I remember was that it shot really fast.
that shit was so funny, week 1 i hopped into a match on rottenburg and on the final wave a guy said go dragon fury so we all switched to pyro and melted the tanks so fast that they died before they even exited the spawn door.
Pyro main here but I _won’t_ argue for The Dragon’s Fury as fun as it is. It has it’s own mechanics that would be, as you put it, adding caviar to cheese and crackers. It is really good, but Phlog still has the best general use application even if it’s weaker against giants. In other words, you’re not sacrificing your ability to do crowd control with the Phlog. As much as I do like The Dragon Fury’s potential, it’s best left to High Tour Harry.
If you're a heavy and don't trust your team, it's definitely a good idea to keep the steak sandvich and warrior's spirit on standby. It doesn't happen often, but I have had missions where I, the heavy, wound up being the primary tank buster by default.
A note on the Spy is that the Diamondback is quite good against tanks, so if you're fine with giving up the l'etranger's cloak on hit for the dead ringer, Spy can actually help deal with tanks if he's sufficiently critted up
For spy, if you really got nothing better to do, you can get crit on kill on the knife and a big clip + firing speed on a stock revolver. Stab a random scout, then unload your clip onto the tank, and you'll have some impact still. Just don't expect to solo it!
True. I actually saw this while playing on Wave 666. I got crit on kill, and the crits apply to your revolver. Stab a robot, and unload your crits. And crits on aknife make it so every hit counts as a backstab last I checked, or at least it plays the animation.
It also has great synergy with the sapper stun as you can insta kill robot in any direction, so you don't necessarily have to trickstab some random scout bots just to get the crits.
Fantastic content as always. Always had a good thrill when I ended up nuking a tank before it can get a good steam going, and hopefully with this guide more people can get that same rush too!
For spy, if you use the stock revolver with max firing speed and 2 clip size up, have both crit on kill on the knife, you can can do some decent tank damage by stabbing a robot then switching to the gun and emptying your clip.
Important to note for Heavy, that 800 credits might be legitimately the difference between penetrating multiple targets or any other important yet expensive upgrades, don’t go for it unless you’re desperately struggling
1:11 Are those the Happy Feet? Wombly Combly? I don't believe that's Falco. I mean, couldn't be Falco. phwaooo Proper good! my goodness! Incredibly work. Goodness me, very impressive. Wombly Combly! Wombly Combly. Well, my friend. I have never in my life...
I'm not sure I buy the traditional "The Heavy is more valuable up front" line anymore. The Heavy is slow and fat and often quite vulnerable to certain types of robots without support from his teammates. Sometimes, shooting the tank at point-blank range with a 75% damage penalty but also maximum ramp-up is still more efficient than fighting a monster giant robot that you can't 1v1. Also, many teams struggle with tank busting, so I give that priority over the old Milk n' Mark in most situations. Especially if the only person using the Milk is a Heavy who's already being pocketed by a Kritz Medic. Finally, I think that you were a bit harsh on The Spy. As was I in my Spy video. The revolvers are actually kind of okay, especially if you have a few credits to spare. Given The Spy's specialized nature, sometimes there isn't really anything more important for him to be doing, and he can give some decent help with tanks instead of waiting around for the next Giant to spawn. Wait. You messed up the Pyro tank trick explanation, too. You want the flame particles to NOT hit twice. Hitting twice is what makes them do less damage because the lower-damage second hit overrides the first.
Thanks for explaining the look up with phlog pyro technique I had someone go nuts on me in coaltown I was really trying to figure it out because he never brought up crouching
For Scout section it's pretty much spot on. HOWEVER, I'd say that having a Scout whose priorities is damage is better from the get go. More damage/kills = more dead robots which lets you focus on tanks more/faster but also allows you to focus on cash easier. Yes I'm a hybrid/damage Scout advocate
I once outdamaged a Phlog pyro on my team by using the Bushwacka/Carbine combo. The key is to dedicate credits to the Carbine alongside the Bushwacka. Usually I max out the fire rate so I can build Crikey the quickest, and put a couple of points into both magazine capacity and total ammo capacity, minimizing the need to reload or hunt for an ammo box. This combo, paired with the Heatmaker, is in my opinion the best dual-purpose Sniper loadout. Heatmaker for regular bot-bashing, and Carbine/Bushwacka for helping out with tank-busting.
or just dump points into your sniper, yknow, the primary of the SNIPER class. snipers should not be on tank no matter how much damage theyre outputting, their job is to kill uber medics and giants while the rest of the team deals with tanks
@@cellbuilder2 even with mmph crits, if they were dying or hadnt upgraded their damage enough (or not using the flame particle trick), they were doing poor damage regardless.
@@SamuelTrademarkedoh wait I misread the comment sorry. I haven't seen any ghost upgrade for reload speed. I might try that myself, just to see if I can.
Your explanation for the flame particle mechanics is slightly incorrect. Aiming up doesn’t make the flame particles hit twice, it simply makes each particle do double the damage compared to aiming straight at the tank. The flamethrower works by shooting a stream of flame particles. If a particle contacts an enemy, they take damage. Younger flame particles do more damage than older ones. In the case where multiple flame particles are contacting an enemy, the oldest particle is used to determine the damage the enemy takes. The purpose of aiming up at the tank is to ensure only young flames particles contact the tank’s hitbox. Aiming straight at the tank keeps old particles in contact with the tank’s hitbox, meaning the game uses those old flame particles to calculate the damage. Also, you don’t necessarily need to aim up, aiming at any edge on the side or top of the tank is usually enough to only have young flame particles contacting the tank, maximizing damage.
Yeah I remember in wave 666 when the dozen or so tanks spawned since I had so much money I would use the DB + max upgrades + crit canteens and do a decent amount of damage.
Some people really need to see this video Seen so many new and semi experienced players doing big mistakes for tank busting And of course they just ignore you all the time, even if you tell them how to be more optimal
If we actually get an update for TF2, I'd love to see MvM get two things: A brand new Tour and a new Robot. That being... Mini-Tanks that are able to produce quite a bit of damage. It would be the first non re-skin of any of the classes (besides normal tank) for a robot. Brand new hitbox, sound, weapons and animations. Maybe make it like the scarab from the Halo series.
Also, make Heavy a little better on the minigun damage. Like you can do what the launchers do, increase your damage for four ticks on ALL miniguns, including Brass Beast, it would go up by 25% for... Around 300 per tick.
1:39 Damage will be higher the closer you are to the center of the tank, meaning that hugging the sides of a tank deals the most damage, while the front and the back of the tank gives the least, since the tank has a rectangular shape.
1:47 One problem - while mini crits don't suffer from damage falloff, you still don't get the full damage ramp-up, so even with mini crits, you're still leaving damage on the table if you're not directly next to the tank. Same goes with Soldier if using Buff Banner, you should be standing just outside of the blast radius so you're getting the best balance of damage ramp-up without destroying yourself with your own rockets (unless you have a Medic with you, which then you could get right up next to it). Only when you have full crits you don't have to worry about this. As for the Dragon's Fury, counterpoint - Dragon's Fury has comparable DPS to Phlog even when you factor in the free crits from Phlog. The Dragon's Fury has a much higher DPS than Phlog if you take crits out of the equation, so certain situations will be more favorable to it than the Phlog will, such as if you can consistently stay fully critted (Kritz Medic with canteen sharing and crit canteens, for example), or if tanks aren't lasting long enough for you to get the full mileage out of Phlog's crit mechanic.
Alright I have a story that's sound dumb. All my teammates when the tank came out in the last wave, they all switch to medic max out the bullet speed to max and shoot at the tank till it destroy and the tank did get destroy
Generally, you do a really good job of giving ample proof for why you think things are the best option. You didn't do that for the Dragon's Fury/Phlog here. You just said "Other people claim this, they are wrong." Why isn't the Fury up there with the Phlog?
Hey, found your content a while ago and started to play MvM again, and I'm having a hard time finding anyone talking about each of the classes upgrades and what's considered a meta upgrade or any potential bugged upgrades. I think much like this video that was very helpful (especially not knowing the dmg reduction that the minigun has to tanks), a video briefly describing what upgrades for each class are the most important relative to others would be neat. Funny and informative as always Mr. Banana.
A guy called 'Underscore Gaming' has really good guides for most of the classes (Scout, Soldier, Pyro, Engineer, Sniper and Spy) here on TH-cam. They all come with all the necessary upgrade advice. Highly recommend watching them.
What about a tank busting tier list involving every weapon? Using the same combos get boring after a certain while, so it would be nice to know what else is available and what isn't
Fully upgraded stock pipe with crit canteens will also absolutely melt tanks, for good measure put a sticky trap for the tank to get that edge in there
that's a LOT of money though, like thousands of credits. im more than sure it would work but i don't know how good of an investment it is when you should be focusing on meds and other important aoe picks. maybe you can get away with it if you have a competent sniper to deal with the meds but generally, teams with a competent sniper don't really need a demo
@@sweetypuss Ah I didn't realize it was that expensive. I always do stock pipe with crits... buuuuuut I almost always play Ghost Town, so money is usually not an issue, but the stickies are too much of a hassle with the crit waves.
if you want "the best strategy" for spy, to bust tank I would say it's crit on kill with knife, and shotrate on revolver. As much as others are still better option. I believe it's best strategy for Spy for it. (so you stab bot in the back, and shoot magazine of ?x120 dmg into the tank)
Advice for spy players: Although its not much, you can POSSIBLY do a bit more damage via buying the "Crit on kill" for the knife and using your gun on the tank afterwards, with max clip size, firing speed, etc...you'll be able to dish out SOME kind of damage to the tank...so if you have the credits to spend and there are tanks, this method will let you at least do a BIT more contribution to taking out a tank than just poking it with your butter knife alone
heres a tip for sticky traps as demoman: when you detonate the stickies they will deal less damage if the tank is on top of the trap, why is this a thing? i dont know but dont detonate while the tank is on top of the trap, maybe earlier, maybe later but not when the tank is on top of them
I find it funny that half of the tips are, "Bring a knife to a gun fight, trust me on this one". Soldier: Equalizer, Demoman: Skullcutter, Heavy: Warrior's, Sniper: Bushwacka, Engineer: Wrench.
When I was still learning MvM, I arrogantly decided to try going Demoknight for funsies. I was lucky enough that I had gotten into a match with a bunch of chill guys who didn't mind. I went Eyelander, Bootlegger with it, and wound up going mvp and carrying the entire match by accident. Granted, this was not a Tour. It was just Boot Camp. But still. I was super surprised to see just how weirdly good the Demoknight was at killing the tank.
The bison is actually fairly good at tank busting from the front or back, as you can hit the tank several times either way, and potentially hit other robots behind it to add some extra damage. It's a meme strat, but one that can actually work fairly cheaply with minimal team coordination.
1:50 minicrits can actually still ramp up iirc, so when you're boosted to that you'll still want to get as close as you can. Full crits don't have ramp up, so good to go from distance.
I remember there was an airstrike soldier in a team. Dude was getting shat on for using it meanwhile I was rocking a Vaccinator. Didn't really communicate with him but rather prioritized pocketing him until I maxed out canteen specialist and crit canteens. It was beautiful to see a tank become scrap.
only if you're being critted. the point however, is the phlog gets it for free and consistantly and you dont need a medic or canteens to achive that with the phlog. fun weapon, but it's not better than the phlog.
@@carolthepyro899 I actually like to use Dragon’s Fury, and sure phlog will always be better. I mostly play Wave 666 with almost a guaranteed krit medic which is better than Phlog. Morever, it can pierce through the tank and crit damage and even kill small bots behind the tank
@@FredSCP-12000 all flame throwers can pierce tank and kill small bots (phlog does this often). and the med shouldn't really be glue'd to the pyro unless there's no further danger to use those kritz on. the point of phlog is that he can solo tank while everyone else focuses on the front.
@@carolthepyro899 well lucky in wave 666, when tanks spawn no other great threats other than the giant demos so medic can krit Pyro for using dragon’s fury Besides, Dragon’s Fury can still do robs of damage on bots if aimed properly And sure, all flamethrowers can peirce through the tank, but a crit dragon’s fury shot can one shot light robots or even medium bots
@@FredSCP-12000 thats just on wave 666 alone, what bout outside of that? med aint run often in expert and medics tend to just stick with heavy, soldier or demo in most other scenerios. it's still very niche and not even a particularly a good niche either. as for 1 shotting, a 0.3 second difference compared a fully upgraded phlog doesn't mean a whole lot. you still lose out on crowd control unless the bots and all bunched up in 1 spot and airblast pyros will render you useless. DF makes you basically a weaker soldier. great single target DPS, but not much else. a side grade really.
The crits canteen can also work for stock revolver spies Since there is no a damage penalty Although youre right Spy is a pick class not a damage dealer
As for the Dragon's Fury vs Phlog argument, on wave 666 the Dragons Fury can actually do better than the Phlog at tank busting due to the insane amount of money you have, why use Phlog crits when you can just buy crit canteens 24/7. I tend to get higher damage numbers on tanks with the Dragons Fury than with the Phlog. So I usually use the Dragons Fury if I have the money for it, it just seems to do better. As for Engi, the Enginner can actually tank-bust surprisingly well, with max firing speed on the Widomaker and Firing speed on your sentry gun, you could get 6000 damage per crit canteen.
Thats wave 666. and you sacrifice phlog taunt cancels for an effect that lasts less. you could also do the same for the phlog and it would still be better. not to mention that you sacrifice some good upgrades in favor of spamming canteens. as to why use phlog crits? phlog taunt cancelling and sheer utility that requires no credits, easy to repeat and easy to gain (especially if bots are behind the tank). DF is fun, but its not better than the phlog.
@@WIMouse the whole point is that you dont need to buy crits or rely on a medic's kritz so you can efficiently destroy tanks (and you lack crowd control with the DF after tank os destroyed) and put those credits into other upgrades for the pyro itself. Unless the fire rate upgrade returned, DF will NOT be better than a phlog, beggars bazooka or fully upgraded scattergun.
@@carolthepyro899 If you watch videos where they compare the Phlog with the Dragons Fury, the Dragons Fury is not that far behind, and if you spam crit canteens, it will do more dmg than the Phlog, which is why I brought up wave 666, not only can you easily spam crit canteens during the tank waves, you have *easily* enough money to do so, Pyro's Flamethrower can be basically maxed at the beginning of the wave, you have the credits, you can spam crit canteens, and the Dragon Fury will be better in that scenario. I have been getting higher damage numbers using the Dragons Fury + Crit canteens, than with the Phlog + Taunt cancel + crit canteens, so if you can spam canteens, the Dragons Fury is the better option.
@@carolthepyro899 df is better with crits plus I thought of something when you get revived after switching weapons which you keep the upgrades for you could do more damage but using 3 crit canteens with the df then kill bond if your medic revives you when you get the phlog equipped you can get the tanks down faster than of you were to with only one of the two
Step 1. Pick medic Step 2. Use crossbow Step 3. max fire speed, reload speed and clip size Step 4. Buy crit canteen Step 5. Deal huge amounts of damage or heal your team8 like crazy with this new minigun Enjoy lol
I agree an Engi with Widowmaker is one of the best to deal with tanks along with Buff banner Beggar's soldier I have shread tanks on wave 666 with both of them and well They are hella good at the job
I often use Pyro for MVM, Phlog and as secondary either the gas passer or the detonator. Powerjack when there's no spies and homewrecker when I see possibility of spies. I always concentrate myself on lighting on fire the scout waves and finishing them off, When soldiers or demos come its a matter of flare spam... as for the giants its a matter of just spinning around them and keeping them away from obliterating me For the giants, I will drop you a useful hint. You can let the tank push you around since it won't kill you, but you gotta AIM UP in order for more flames to hit the tank and increase the total DMG output, I always combine it with reestock canteens and spam mmph at it. That way I end up tankbusting on my own while my friends focus on destroying the support of the tank... that if they're good enough. Otherwise I end up flanked by bomb carrying scouts and bam it's all over for me.
There is also the bison as well. But only use it if you have another soldier with a banner. In case you guys don't believe me, try it out in solo wave first and then try it in groups. I was able to deal 75k dmg on tank with medic kritz on an intermediate rottenburg level while everyone else was around 15k.
Wave 6 Hamlet, I always go max shortstop scout with crit canteens and max fire resist. Money sustains his health so the support bots don't kill him nearly as easily as they'd whittle down a pyro, he's got greater range with similar damage output, and with faster move speed he can more effectively use the engie's 2way to get more crits. Phlog pyro wouldn't need canteens, but it's always fun to melt tanks as scout and do more tank damage in one wave than the pyro did the whole mission
![[TF2] The Ultimate MvM Robot Tier List](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0KdFKyJyaWE/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] MvM's Hardest Achievement](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dCrPZAEJCZE/mqdefault.jpg)
It's worth noting that demoman's stickies do more damage to tanks if they explode next to them rather than under them.
That is something I never knew
Really?
What's the source engine magic behind that?
And they also have damage ramp-up, so try to set them off asap.
For what reason???
@@sergeychistov8162 I thought sticky falloff worked depending on the player’s position to the sticky bomb, and then a short like 0.45 after arm time rampup
I remembered hearing about aiming up to max the flamethrower damage on tanks. This is literally the first video that explains _why_ that is the case. It's like learning the Davinci code and the science behind it in one.
*Ahem*
I released my video on December 25, 2022, and I even explain that you can actually aim in a few directions OTHER than just "up". The important part is actually that you're cutting across the corner of the hitbox instead of straight through it.
Also, the explanation in this video is just... wrong. Read the captions from the screenshots he included, not the voiceover. The screenshots are the correct explanation.
@@UnderscoreGamingChannel cool
@@UnderscoreGamingChannel cool
@@UnderscoreGamingChannel hi I watch your videos, theyre really cool!
@@UnderscoreGamingChannel gotta love that a misinformed video goes so much further than a correct one
scout being a tank buster sounds like a fever dream
Scout's a rly high burst dmg class lol (believe it or not)
Even dewill and wheezy underrate him
Oh and they can't even play him that well
@@speedody2171 Well, who can play him that well in mvm?
Maybe it's just not enough people playing the gamemode but from my experience skilled scouts (or whatever class) in mvm can be rly rare, in all honesty I saw scouts who get less dmg full game than me in a single wave lol
Once I saw a pyro get outdmged by a med full game lol (and the team said he did a good job)
I still see soldiers who forget rocket jumping exists on a regular basis
Oh and the skill difference between Mann up and boot camp can barely be anything (but I just play community so idfk anymore)
Edit : ig I kinda derailed the topic but it's true lmao
I only saw couple scouts in my life that actually played the class (upgraded their gun properly) and didn't rely on 1000 jump height or resists
@@M4x_P0w3r Underscore gaming has a scout guide video on youtube. he's the reason i do damage scout nowadays instead of support and i constantly put soldiers to shame on 2cities. you dont need canteens or crit-a-cola, just good upgrades.
Scout is so baller at tank busting, even in early rounds. The key to keeping up with not much money is to equip the Crit-a-Cola and get three Ammo canteens. Shoot three full clips normally, but at the end of the third clip use the ammo canteen and you'll get another clip before the cola runs out and you get your cola back too. Note that while mini crits don't have fall off, they do have ramp up, so using the 35% bonus of mini crits and 75% ramp up of scatterguns, you can get really close to doing full critical damage with just mini crits. Also the Soda Popper's optimal upgrade path for max DPS is firing speed 1 > clip size 1 > damage 1-2 > clip size 2 > damage 3-4 > clip size 3-4.
If ur aim is good upgrading dmg earlier is better
@@speedody2171 aim? It's a tank, how are you missing
@@SkywayFishers oh I thought u were talking about scout in general
@@speedody2171 ???
@@speedody2171 If we're talking Scout in general then you should still take clip size first since it increases your DPS more than the first damage tick. A meatshot clip dump hit and run is pretty much the only thing you should be doing, or else you risk taking too much damage, and missing is pretty hard when you're at max ramp up range. The only time I can think of taking damage first is if you need to be the medic killer, and if it's come to that, you might just want to switch classes or abandon ship.
1:49 mini crits don’t have damage fall-off, but they are affected by ramp up, so it’s definitely optimal to be as close as possible. But yeah, it’s still great to do good consistent damage at any range.
Thank you for not just saying "Heavy should never attack the tank" like I often see people do. Even with the harsh damage penalty, he's able to dish out a lot of carnage to it.
And the idea that "Tankbusting is X class's job!" Is how new players lose waves. Everyone needs to do their part. Just as collecting credits isn't exclusively Scout's job.
@Flyin' Steve 2city has no tanks
@Flyin' Steve "what do you mean gas passer doesn't instakill the tanks?!? Expert is such bullshit"
If the tank is the last objective in the wave, I will go for the tank as Heavy. If not, I only give tanks a little love tap with my Minigun just to increase my Tanks Destroyed strange part (don't ask me why it has that part, it was gifted to me that way).
Heavy should attack the tank, just not with his mjnigun
@@theshermantanker7043 if it's a tank only wave, and you have around 1300 bucks at your disposal. Then yeah, heavy can bust the tank
4 points of warrior's spirit swing speed
2 points of buffalo steak recharge
I think it’s worth mentioning that mini-crits don’t have fall-off, but they still have ramp-up. So the prostate exam is still preferred.
How does that even work!?
@@xaviersavard6343 In TF2, for most of the weapons, the damage scales off the distance between you and your target. Under normal circumstances, your weapons' damage is boosted up to 150% at point blank, and reduced down to 50% at long range. So, for example, given that a soldier's rocket's nominal damage is 95 - it will deal up to 142 point-blank, and as low as 47 if you're pestering snipers across the map.
In short, we can say that a normal weapon's "damage profile" is: 150% - 100% - 50%.
Scout is special in that regard - the high point for his primaries is instead 175%, giving rise to ultra-damaging "meatshots". So his profile is 175% - 100% - 50%.
When you're mini-critted, on top of multiplying your damage by 1.45, it also gets rid of the long-distance fall-off (but the close-range boost still stays). Combining both factors together gives a "normal mini-crit profile" at 217% - 145% - 145%, and "the Scout's mini-crit profile" at 254% - 145% - 145%. So, it is still quite beneficial to get into the tank's prostate even when mini-crit-boosted.
Full crits, in the other hand, do actually just deal flat 300% - 300% - 300% of the nominal damage, regardless of distance or class.
Tickle the robo-balls
It's important to note that, once the swords have had their damages upgraded, you can safely swap back to a sticky launcher and maintain the damage bonus.
damn, thats mindblowing, definitely will apply that in game
Elaborate more please?
@@MitchellTheMitch Damage upgrades are only unlocked if you have a shield equipped. If you upgrade the damage of your swords, then unequip the shield, your sword will still have whatever damage upgrades you gave it despite no longer having access to the upgrade.
So THAT'S why aiming up on tanks makes flamethrowers do more. Fascinating.
Seeing that Airstrike soldier delete half a tank’s health in 2 seconds flat, I felt not unlike how a Roman soldier must’ve felt when he found out the other team was bringing elephants to a sword fight.
Hannibal Moment
I remember when jungle inferno was released and the dragon's fury was absolutely broken in mvm tankbusting when you could if I correctly recall buy attack speed upgrades or something. All I remember was that it shot really fast.
Valve removed the re-pressurization upgrade from the dragons fury in mvm to turn it into airblast
that shit was so funny, week 1 i hopped into a match on rottenburg and on the final wave a guy said go dragon fury so we all switched to pyro and melted the tanks so fast that they died before they even exited the spawn door.
@@isildurfour That sounds fun as hell and would rival th ephlog for the meta spot. I wish I was there to see it.
@@mariustan9275 it didn't rival the phlog, it was straight up better by a land slide. like twice as much dps.
@@isildurfour That sounds so much fun. Maybe tone it down a little and it'd be fine.
I did a double take on that ending ranking when I saw 10 bullet points.
I was like " wait...10? There aren't 10 classes."
there are dude, the madcap is one of the best mvm classes
2 medics
I love that Weezy is one the few TFTubers I watch with enough mental strength to continue playing MvM.
“We are the British army our might is unmatched we have unending numbers of men and ship”
“Dis boomstick makes mah taxes go away”
Pyro main here but I _won’t_ argue for The Dragon’s Fury as fun as it is. It has it’s own mechanics that would be, as you put it, adding caviar to cheese and crackers. It is really good, but Phlog still has the best general use application even if it’s weaker against giants. In other words, you’re not sacrificing your ability to do crowd control with the Phlog.
As much as I do like The Dragon Fury’s potential, it’s best left to High Tour Harry.
It's nice to see someone else using the Overdose for once, and talking about the offensive capabilities of shield bashing.
If you're a heavy and don't trust your team, it's definitely a good idea to keep the steak sandvich and warrior's spirit on standby. It doesn't happen often, but I have had missions where I, the heavy, wound up being the primary tank buster by default.
I personally love to use the Widowmaker over The Rescue Ranger, so this is a nice callout to our tank prowess
Demoknight on tanks is the only time random crits are appreciated
A note on the Spy is that the Diamondback is quite good against tanks, so if you're fine with giving up the l'etranger's cloak on hit for the dead ringer, Spy can actually help deal with tanks if he's sufficiently critted up
You forgot about the bison on the rottenburg maps when there are multiple tanks in a row. Bison + crits + 3 tanks easily does 60k damage in one wave
He didn't forgot about it, since you can see him using the Bison multiple times in the video.
@@CharmineX he doesnt mention it once
The day I discovered Engie's tankbusting ability was a glorious one indeed.
"the answer? use a gun."
"and if that dont work? use more gun"
For spy, if you really got nothing better to do, you can get crit on kill on the knife and a big clip + firing speed on a stock revolver. Stab a random scout, then unload your clip onto the tank, and you'll have some impact still. Just don't expect to solo it!
True. I actually saw this while playing on Wave 666. I got crit on kill, and the crits apply to your revolver. Stab a robot, and unload your crits. And crits on aknife make it so every hit counts as a backstab last I checked, or at least it plays the animation.
It also has great synergy with the sapper stun as you can insta kill robot in any direction, so you don't necessarily have to trickstab some random scout bots just to get the crits.
Fantastic content as always. Always had a good thrill when I ended up nuking a tank before it can get a good steam going, and hopefully with this guide more people can get that same rush too!
A note for 1:47, while mini-crits indeed have no falloff they do have rampup unlike full crits.
Your channel has THE Best music choice
Somebody finally said it
Could you do a vid on low man runs in mvm? I've always found it interesting how 2 or even 1 person can beat a mission designed for 6 people
For spy, if you use the stock revolver with max firing speed and 2 clip size up, have both crit on kill on the knife, you can can do some decent tank damage by stabbing a robot then switching to the gun and emptying your clip.
That's probably the most use I got out of that upgrade, I'm still questioning why they gave Spy's insta-kill melee the crit on kill upgrade.
@@toastyboi8737probably as a last resort when the other bots aggro onto you after you stab a few
@@Aussie_Axe wouldn't it be more efficient to just escape with dead ringer instead of standing your ground?
@@toastyboi8737 idk man ask valve
Important to note for Heavy, that 800 credits might be legitimately the difference between penetrating multiple targets or any other important yet expensive upgrades, don’t go for it unless you’re desperately struggling
Your analogies are so good lmao.
1:11 Are those the Happy Feet? Wombly Combly? I don't believe that's Falco. I mean, couldn't be Falco. phwaooo Proper good! my goodness! Incredibly work. Goodness me, very impressive. Wombly Combly! Wombly Combly. Well, my friend. I have never in my life...
Thank for the information this should help out a a lot ❤
P.S poor spy
woooooooah this video is popping off. mvm meta i guess. Good shit bro
I'm not sure I buy the traditional "The Heavy is more valuable up front" line anymore.
The Heavy is slow and fat and often quite vulnerable to certain types of robots without support from his teammates. Sometimes, shooting the tank at point-blank range with a 75% damage penalty but also maximum ramp-up is still more efficient than fighting a monster giant robot that you can't 1v1.
Also, many teams struggle with tank busting, so I give that priority over the old Milk n' Mark in most situations. Especially if the only person using the Milk is a Heavy who's already being pocketed by a Kritz Medic.
Finally, I think that you were a bit harsh on The Spy. As was I in my Spy video. The revolvers are actually kind of okay, especially if you have a few credits to spare. Given The Spy's specialized nature, sometimes there isn't really anything more important for him to be doing, and he can give some decent help with tanks instead of waiting around for the next Giant to spawn.
Wait. You messed up the Pyro tank trick explanation, too. You want the flame particles to NOT hit twice. Hitting twice is what makes them do less damage because the lower-damage second hit overrides the first.
Good to know Kritzkrig is one of the best parts to most runs. I love when Medic is needed as the sole Medic Main.
I love your content!
I’m leaving a comment to please the algorithm so you get more subs and recognition you deserve it
“i said tank bust not tank bukake”
this quote makes the fact that his trademark is a banana even better
Thanks for explaining the look up with phlog pyro technique I had someone go nuts on me in coaltown I was really trying to figure it out because he never brought up crouching
For Scout section it's pretty much spot on. HOWEVER, I'd say that having a Scout whose priorities is damage is better from the get go. More damage/kills = more dead robots which lets you focus on tanks more/faster but also allows you to focus on cash easier.
Yes I'm a hybrid/damage Scout advocate
i didnt touched tf2 for years yet your videos are enjoyable to watch
“I said tank bust not tank Bukake.”
Best channel on the planet.
Very helpful! Thank you weezy!
I once outdamaged a Phlog pyro on my team by using the Bushwacka/Carbine combo. The key is to dedicate credits to the Carbine alongside the Bushwacka.
Usually I max out the fire rate so I can build Crikey the quickest, and put a couple of points into both magazine capacity and total ammo capacity, minimizing the need to reload or hunt for an ammo box.
This combo, paired with the Heatmaker, is in my opinion the best dual-purpose Sniper loadout. Heatmaker for regular bot-bashing, and Carbine/Bushwacka for helping out with tank-busting.
if you outdamaged a phlog pyro, their damage upgrades were likely poor or non.
@@carolthepyro899 Most likely. I think they were using their mmph crits, but for some reason they just didn't keep up with me.
or just dump points into your sniper, yknow, the primary of the SNIPER class. snipers should not be on tank no matter how much damage theyre outputting, their job is to kill uber medics and giants while the rest of the team deals with tanks
@@cellbuilder2 even with mmph crits, if they were dying or hadnt upgraded their damage enough (or not using the flame particle trick), they were doing poor damage regardless.
Wait you sound suspiciously similar to gohar… HMMMM UNLESS,no it couldn’t be, but he gives information like gohar! OH MY GOD
Epic Rap Battles of History: Begger's Bazooka vs Minecraft
1:35 Back when MVM was originally released you could do the ghost upgrade to get reload speed on the soda popper / force of nature too. So broken.
You still can.
@@mariustan9275 really? i gotta try that
@@SamuelTrademarkedoh wait I misread the comment sorry. I haven't seen any ghost upgrade for reload speed. I might try that myself, just to see if I can.
1:46
"Healer: Child Predator"
classic mvm experience
As dude above me said, classic tf2 moment
That bushwacka carbine combo has actually saved some waves
Your explanation for the flame particle mechanics is slightly incorrect. Aiming up doesn’t make the flame particles hit twice, it simply makes each particle do double the damage compared to aiming straight at the tank.
The flamethrower works by shooting a stream of flame particles. If a particle contacts an enemy, they take damage. Younger flame particles do more damage than older ones. In the case where multiple flame particles are contacting an enemy, the oldest particle is used to determine the damage the enemy takes.
The purpose of aiming up at the tank is to ensure only young flames particles contact the tank’s hitbox. Aiming straight at the tank keeps old particles in contact with the tank’s hitbox, meaning the game uses those old flame particles to calculate the damage.
Also, you don’t necessarily need to aim up, aiming at any edge on the side or top of the tank is usually enough to only have young flame particles contacting the tank, maximizing damage.
AWH YEEE BRAWL MUTE CITY! The best dam song in the smashbros library!
Every video is better than the one before, keep it up bud!
Fun fact: if you max out firing speed on spy's stock revolver and you get crits, you can acctually deal so much damage to the tank
Yeah I remember in wave 666 when the dozen or so tanks spawned since I had so much money I would use the DB + max upgrades + crit canteens and do a decent amount of damage.
Some people really need to see this video
Seen so many new and semi experienced players doing big mistakes for tank busting
And of course they just ignore you all the time, even if you tell them how to be more optimal
If we actually get an update for TF2, I'd love to see MvM get two things: A brand new Tour and a new Robot. That being... Mini-Tanks that are able to produce quite a bit of damage. It would be the first non re-skin of any of the classes (besides normal tank) for a robot. Brand new hitbox, sound, weapons and animations. Maybe make it like the scarab from the Halo series.
Also, make Heavy a little better on the minigun damage. Like you can do what the launchers do, increase your damage for four ticks on ALL miniguns, including Brass Beast, it would go up by 25% for... Around 300 per tick.
Holy crap lois new weezy video
1:39 Damage will be higher the closer you are to the center of the tank, meaning that hugging the sides of a tank deals the most damage, while the front and the back of the tank gives the least, since the tank has a rectangular shape.
1:47 One problem - while mini crits don't suffer from damage falloff, you still don't get the full damage ramp-up, so even with mini crits, you're still leaving damage on the table if you're not directly next to the tank. Same goes with Soldier if using Buff Banner, you should be standing just outside of the blast radius so you're getting the best balance of damage ramp-up without destroying yourself with your own rockets (unless you have a Medic with you, which then you could get right up next to it). Only when you have full crits you don't have to worry about this.
As for the Dragon's Fury, counterpoint - Dragon's Fury has comparable DPS to Phlog even when you factor in the free crits from Phlog. The Dragon's Fury has a much higher DPS than Phlog if you take crits out of the equation, so certain situations will be more favorable to it than the Phlog will, such as if you can consistently stay fully critted (Kritz Medic with canteen sharing and crit canteens, for example), or if tanks aren't lasting long enough for you to get the full mileage out of Phlog's crit mechanic.
An idiot with a maxed Jag does a surprising amount of damage
Alright I have a story that's sound dumb.
All my teammates when the tank came out in the last wave, they all switch to medic max out the bullet speed to max and shoot at the tank till it destroy and the tank did get destroy
What does a friendly Tank say?
*"Tank you"*
I love how this video had clips of gas being passed.
Generally, you do a really good job of giving ample proof for why you think things are the best option. You didn't do that for the Dragon's Fury/Phlog here. You just said "Other people claim this, they are wrong."
Why isn't the Fury up there with the Phlog?
Hey, found your content a while ago and started to play MvM again, and I'm having a hard time finding anyone talking about each of the classes upgrades and what's considered a meta upgrade or any potential bugged upgrades. I think much like this video that was very helpful (especially not knowing the dmg reduction that the minigun has to tanks), a video briefly describing what upgrades for each class are the most important relative to others would be neat. Funny and informative as always Mr. Banana.
Check out the pride_ expert mvm video its a pretty great guide even if not in expert mvm
A guy called 'Underscore Gaming' has really good guides for most of the classes (Scout, Soldier, Pyro, Engineer, Sniper and Spy) here on TH-cam. They all come with all the necessary upgrade advice. Highly recommend watching them.
3:27 "I said 'tank bust' and not 'tank bukkake'"
LOL that was surprising to hear
Me and my friends found the bison strar while trolling. And now it's our meta.
You can deal more damage to the tanks as Pyro if you attack the treads and face slightly upwards (probably because of Damage Ramp-up/Fall-off)
Stock Grenade launcher + tide turner + skull cutter is my favorite way to play demo in mvm
What about a tank busting tier list involving every weapon? Using the same combos get boring after a certain while, so it would be nice to know what else is available and what isn't
The bison melts through tanks when maxed out with crits. Really good if there is multiple tanks stacked in a line.
Oh god, I think I'm the heavy at 6:21
8:58 pun intended?
Fully upgraded stock pipe with crit canteens will also absolutely melt tanks, for good measure put a sticky trap for the tank to get that edge in there
that's a LOT of money though, like thousands of credits. im more than sure it would work but i don't know how good of an investment it is when you should be focusing on meds and other important aoe picks. maybe you can get away with it if you have a competent sniper to deal with the meds but generally, teams with a competent sniper don't really need a demo
@@sweetypuss Ah I didn't realize it was that expensive. I always do stock pipe with crits... buuuuuut I almost always play Ghost Town, so money is usually not an issue, but the stickies are too much of a hassle with the crit waves.
if you want "the best strategy" for spy, to bust tank I would say it's crit on kill with knife, and shotrate on revolver.
As much as others are still better option. I believe it's best strategy for Spy for it. (so you stab bot in the back, and shoot magazine of ?x120 dmg into the tank)
Advice for spy players:
Although its not much, you can POSSIBLY do a bit more damage via buying the "Crit on kill" for the knife and using your gun on the tank afterwards, with max clip size, firing speed, etc...you'll be able to dish out SOME kind of damage to the tank...so if you have the credits to spend and there are tanks, this method will let you at least do a BIT more contribution to taking out a tank than just poking it with your butter knife alone
what about pope demo? from experience pipe demo seemed to do decent
heres a tip for sticky traps as demoman:
when you detonate the stickies they will deal less damage if the tank is on top of the trap, why is this a thing? i dont know but dont detonate while the tank is on top of the trap, maybe earlier, maybe later but not when the tank is on top of them
I find it funny that half of the tips are, "Bring a knife to a gun fight, trust me on this one".
Soldier: Equalizer, Demoman: Skullcutter, Heavy: Warrior's, Sniper: Bushwacka, Engineer: Wrench.
When I was still learning MvM, I arrogantly decided to try going Demoknight for funsies. I was lucky enough that I had gotten into a match with a bunch of chill guys who didn't mind. I went Eyelander, Bootlegger with it, and wound up going mvp and carrying the entire match by accident.
Granted, this was not a Tour. It was just Boot Camp. But still. I was super surprised to see just how weirdly good the Demoknight was at killing the tank.
The bison is actually fairly good at tank busting from the front or back, as you can hit the tank several times either way, and potentially hit other robots behind it to add some extra damage. It's a meme strat, but one that can actually work fairly cheaply with minimal team coordination.
My teammates always randomly drop dead around the tank and I have to wait for the tank to pass over their little hologram to revive them
Yeah, airstrike is my go too for mvm soldier in general, the base jumper turns you into an orbital rapid fire satellite
Tanks for this info
1:50 minicrits can actually still ramp up iirc, so when you're boosted to that you'll still want to get as close as you can.
Full crits don't have ramp up, so good to go from distance.
I remember there was an airstrike soldier in a team. Dude was getting shat on for using it meanwhile I was rocking a Vaccinator.
Didn't really communicate with him but rather prioritized pocketing him until I maxed out canteen specialist and crit canteens.
It was beautiful to see a tank become scrap.
I actually heard that Dragon's Fury deals more damage to the tanks than the phlog.
only if you're being critted. the point however, is the phlog gets it for free and consistantly and you dont need a medic or canteens to achive that with the phlog. fun weapon, but it's not better than the phlog.
@@carolthepyro899 I actually like to use Dragon’s Fury, and sure phlog will always be better. I mostly play Wave 666 with almost a guaranteed krit medic which is better than Phlog. Morever, it can pierce through the tank and crit damage and even kill small bots behind the tank
@@FredSCP-12000 all flame throwers can pierce tank and kill small bots (phlog does this often). and the med shouldn't really be glue'd to the pyro unless there's no further danger to use those kritz on. the point of phlog is that he can solo tank while everyone else focuses on the front.
@@carolthepyro899 well lucky in wave 666, when tanks spawn no other great threats other than the giant demos so medic can krit Pyro for using dragon’s fury
Besides, Dragon’s Fury can still do robs of damage on bots if aimed properly
And sure, all flamethrowers can peirce through the tank, but a crit dragon’s fury shot can one shot light robots or even medium bots
@@FredSCP-12000 thats just on wave 666 alone, what bout outside of that? med aint run often in expert and medics tend to just stick with heavy, soldier or demo in most other scenerios. it's still very niche and not even a particularly a good niche either. as for 1 shotting, a 0.3 second difference compared a fully upgraded phlog doesn't mean a whole lot. you still lose out on crowd control unless the bots and all bunched up in 1 spot and airblast pyros will render you useless. DF makes you basically a weaker soldier. great single target DPS, but not much else. a side grade really.
Now do the Dealing With Tanks in Medieval MvM.
The crits canteen can also work for stock revolver spies
Since there is no a damage penalty
Although youre right
Spy is a pick class not a damage dealer
Pro tip. You can equip the shield, get there melee upgrades, and switch to stickies. The damage will remain upgraded.
As for the Dragon's Fury vs Phlog argument, on wave 666 the Dragons Fury can actually do better than the Phlog at tank busting due to the insane amount of money you have, why use Phlog crits when you can just buy crit canteens 24/7. I tend to get higher damage numbers on tanks with the Dragons Fury than with the Phlog. So I usually use the Dragons Fury if I have the money for it, it just seems to do better.
As for Engi, the Enginner can actually tank-bust surprisingly well, with max firing speed on the Widomaker and Firing speed on your sentry gun, you could get 6000 damage per crit canteen.
Thats wave 666. and you sacrifice phlog taunt cancels for an effect that lasts less. you could also do the same for the phlog and it would still be better. not to mention that you sacrifice some good upgrades in favor of spamming canteens. as to why use phlog crits? phlog taunt cancelling and sheer utility that requires no credits, easy to repeat and easy to gain (especially if bots are behind the tank). DF is fun, but its not better than the phlog.
@@carolthepyro899 really try checking out every method of crits with the df and you will see how wrong you are
@@WIMouse the whole point is that you dont need to buy crits or rely on a medic's kritz so you can efficiently destroy tanks (and you lack crowd control with the DF after tank os destroyed) and put those credits into other upgrades for the pyro itself. Unless the fire rate upgrade returned, DF will NOT be better than a phlog, beggars bazooka or fully upgraded scattergun.
@@carolthepyro899
If you watch videos where they compare the Phlog with the Dragons Fury, the Dragons Fury is not that far behind, and if you spam crit canteens, it will do more dmg than the Phlog, which is why I brought up wave 666, not only can you easily spam crit canteens during the tank waves, you have *easily* enough money to do so, Pyro's Flamethrower can be basically maxed at the beginning of the wave, you have the credits, you can spam crit canteens, and the Dragon Fury will be better in that scenario.
I have been getting higher damage numbers using the Dragons Fury + Crit canteens, than with the Phlog + Taunt cancel + crit canteens, so if you can spam canteens, the Dragons Fury is the better option.
@@carolthepyro899 df is better with crits plus I thought of something when you get revived after switching weapons which you keep the upgrades for you could do more damage but using 3 crit canteens with the df then kill bond if your medic revives you when you get the phlog equipped you can get the tanks down faster than of you were to with only one of the two
Sniper bushwacka + cleaner carbine = tank gone
Step 1. Pick medic
Step 2. Use crossbow
Step 3. max fire speed, reload speed and clip size
Step 4. Buy crit canteen
Step 5. Deal huge amounts of damage or
heal your team8 like crazy with this new minigun
Enjoy lol
Chances to be kicked for it - 80%
I agree an Engi with Widowmaker is one of the best to deal with tanks along with Buff banner Beggar's soldier
I have shread tanks on wave 666 with both of them and well
They are hella good at the job
I often use Pyro for MVM, Phlog and as secondary either the gas passer or the detonator. Powerjack when there's no spies and homewrecker when I see possibility of spies. I always concentrate myself on lighting on fire the scout waves and finishing them off, When soldiers or demos come its a matter of flare spam... as for the giants its a matter of just spinning around them and keeping them away from obliterating me
For the giants, I will drop you a useful hint. You can let the tank push you around since it won't kill you, but you gotta AIM UP in order for more flames to hit the tank and increase the total DMG output, I always combine it with reestock canteens and spam mmph at it. That way I end up tankbusting on my own while my friends focus on destroying the support of the tank... that if they're good enough. Otherwise I end up flanked by bomb carrying scouts and bam it's all over for me.
Spy with max capacity + fire-rate diamondback can dump a LOT of alpha strike damage, on par with crit-bushwaka sniper.
The hibernating bear set was made for mvm confirmed?!?!
finally, the perfect guide for bustin
There is also the bison as well. But only use it if you have another soldier with a banner.
In case you guys don't believe me, try it out in solo wave first and then try it in groups. I was able to deal 75k dmg on tank with medic kritz on an intermediate rottenburg level while everyone else was around 15k.
Wave 6 Hamlet, I always go max shortstop scout with crit canteens and max fire resist. Money sustains his health so the support bots don't kill him nearly as easily as they'd whittle down a pyro, he's got greater range with similar damage output, and with faster move speed he can more effectively use the engie's 2way to get more crits. Phlog pyro wouldn't need canteens, but it's always fun to melt tanks as scout and do more tank damage in one wave than the pyro did the whole mission
i already have a degree in bustonomics thank you