Everything Wrong With Star Trek: First Contact in 20 Minutes or Less
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.ค. 2023
- Star Trek First Contact is a damn fine film and one of the best Trek movies. But all movies have sins, even ones where they use time travel to stop the Borg from wiping out humanity.
Next week: Recent horror sins, early aughts sins.
Remember, no movie is without sin. Which movie's sins should we count next?
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The "roll an entire franchise worth of credits" making the sin counter jump to 1701 is now officially my favorite sin.
This!
I about died laughing when it rolled up to 1701, definitely my favorite one in awhile lol
It utterly broke me. I had to pause the video. Hi-freakin'-larious.
I love this film but the silly Star Trek referencing joke plucks me right out of it EVERY TIME. It deserved at least a billion more sins.
I scared my neighbors when I laughed so hard at this. Favorite sin of all time.
I think Worf’s response “If you were any other man, I would kill you where you stand” deserves a sin off. It’s excellent.
witch played but he over talked it with his sin description.
Don't forget the epic line.... Prepare for ramming speed!!!!
I have used Worf's line many times over the years. It gets the best reactions.
“Get off my bridge!!”
“If you were any other man, I would kill you where you stand … unless, of course, you were Captain Sisko. He scares me.”
“If you were any other man, I would kill you where you stand,” has to be my favorite line from Worf in the entire series. It speaks to the tremendous respect he has for his captain and the man who’s often believed in him when others did not.
Other than his wedding, Picard has overseen Worf's journey through Klingonhood. Picard and Worf both would be honored to join the other's house. Only man other than Sisko to ever give Worf pause to kill them.
Accusing a Klingon of cowardice is definitely the fastest way to die if they don't have mad respect for you, lol
Dont they have sonic sinks? they have the showers!
That line alone is worth -1700 sins
I absolutely hated that line.
Despite its flaws, this is far and away my favorite Star Trek film. Can't believe there was no sin off for playing Magic Carpet Ride during blast off, James Cromwell's portrayal of Zefram Cochrane, or the Robert Picardo cameo.
Ethan Phillips(Neelix) as well.
The sin of playing the first like, 30 seconds of Magic Carpet Ride canceled out the removal of including it.
@@RedHeadKevinyeah EVERYONE knows that goes against co-pilot rules!
Picardo was in this?
@@Scottlp2in the evacuation of sickbay scene Beverly activates the Enterprises EMH portrayed by Picardo as a distraction for the Borg
Man, acknowledging the epic "The line must be drawn here" scene but not taking at least one sin off for Patrick Stewart absolutely owning every second of that screen time hurts.
So damn true!
THERE! ARE! FOUR! SINS!
EXACTLY
Quark did that line better in Deep Space 9's episode Dogs of War lol =P
@@bigemugamercan’t believe someone else thought about that too 😂
@@bigemugamer I like Quark, and DS9 was my favorite of all the Trek's, but nofuckingway was his better.
The first appearance of E gave any trek fan goosebumps. All sins forgiven.
It looks so damn tough. Looks like it could take on the rest of the fleet by itself.
Back in the day, coming out of the theatre, the general consensus was that the ship is ugly and that bridge makes no sense. We used to sit around in the lobby of the theatre and nerd out. The internet wasn't around yet. I know it's a personal opinion for everyone but I was happy to see the 1701-F in ST:Picard and not the E.
A "sport hatchback" version of the Sovereign (in the spirit of the Nebula and Miranda classes) would look incredible.
It's the 1701-A melded with the 1701-D after turning the saucer 90 degrees then adding flashy lights we rarely see and is the only time nacelle blue glow is up-facing (relave to the angle of the ship we always see). I don't buy into the fan-theorized retro shuttle bay by deck 20 in the aft section as the ship does not separate and the sole/main shuttle bay is that ginormous.
Just want to say, as a former sailor, one of two things would happen on each ship during the attack when Picard says he's taking command. Either they acknowledge and follow, or refuse and continue taking orders from previous command or continue orders previously given. They wouldn't be arguing over command. In the heat of a battle, one that is being lost, the most advanced starship - the fleet flagship, with a flag officer aboard, dashes in and starts kicking ass? They're gonna follow him without question, then when the cube is dust, they'll question, lol.
It's also in the canonical starfleet regs for the setting:
In the event of equivalency of rank, the captain of the tactically superior ship takes command. If this is also equal, the one with the longest service period as captain takes command.
The enterprise was the most advanced ship in the fleet. Accordingly, she was tactically superior.
^ This #Facts
Given how quick the engagement turned, I doubt anyone would make a fuss about it anyway lol
Fully agree, as an Air Force veteran of 39+ years, it's follow orders first, question them later.
The Admirals ship was destroy, and Picard commands the flagship of the fleet, so the command would fall to him naturally as the Enterprise arrives on scene.
@@EvilTheOne 15 years of Army with combat experience in a combat MOS; the first person who yells an order and makes a decision will get followed; they can argue about it later. See also the movie version of Starship Troopers where Ace is in command and freezes, they ask him what to do, he doesn't say anything, Rico yells "kill them all" and they start shooting. When command breaks down in a life or death combat situation, the first person to yell a command with confidence gets followed.
Never thought about this before, but it's interesting that Beverley is the one who basically says Picard's decision is final in regards to the self-destruct, when she is literally the one crew member who could overrule his command. She could relieve him on medical grounds, which is an easy sell for his level of PTSD
I was about to say this.
17:44 Yes, as CinemaSins admit, they are here to question everything we hold dear.
She's a full-fledge Commander too. They kind of glossed over in all of TNG that Crusher is one of the highest ranked officers on the ship. I'm pretty sure she's third in rank and would assume command automatically. It's always bugged me that they don't really respect ranks. The NCOs and Yeobeings aren't listening to an ensign in command.
Love how when Cochrane says "Star Trek", the sin counter jumps to 1701
Ah, such a beauty 1701 is
No bloody A, B, C, or D
Certainly not the Sovereign class version, it's ugly as shit.
should have been -1701 and be the first movie to have negative sins. lol
@@awilliams1701 Plenty of letters leeft in the alphabet
the Borg somehow transporting to the Enterprise is still 1 million times less offensive that Palpatine somehow returning for the Rise of Skywalker
😂 truth!!
awww you spoiled it for me :(
the whole cant transport when shields are up gets broken throughout entire series, sometimes they cant sometimes they can, dont know why they even came up with that rule
@@DrKuryakin Plot convenience. If the transporters always worked it would be much harder to make drama for the show. Not to mention the fact that transporting bombs into the enemy ship or transporting the enemy crew into space would have to be stopped somehow.
@@DrKuryakin the games of Star Trek Armada may solve this because the special ability of the Cube, the Holding Beam, disables enemy engines while simultanusly transports drones aboard, through the shields (the assimilator ship also has a special beam that directly transports drones through the shields)
The bit about Picard taking command of the fleet was kinda explained retroactively in ST: Voyager's 5th season episode Equinox; Captain Janeway quotes a Starfleet regulation which states that a combat situation involving more than one ship, command falls to the vessel with tactical superiority.
NEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRD
@@galaxyeyes1457 Ping.
@@galaxyeyes1457 Guilty :D
It's common sense to yield the command to the most experienced captain since all admirals are dead. And with the best ship around.
damn... Beat me to it Max.
While the Big E swoops in to cover the Defiant we see her shields take impacts. However, one of two things we do not see between the order to beam up the Defiant's crew and when the Enterprise turning about to send another volley of torpedoes are: 1 The Enterprise extends her shields around the drifting ship thereby beaming inside the shield grid. or 2 She lowers her shields and relies on ablative armor to tank the hits. I'm more inclined to believe that first is the most logical.
The Ahab line isn't about the exact similarities between his and Picard's situation. What Lily is saying (as someone who admits she hasn't actually read the book) is that the desire for revenge ultimately gets everyone killed, and that's what Picard is playing with by not evacuating the crew and initiating the self-destruct. Both men's anger will consumer those around them. She arguing that he put his pain aside and put his crew first, especially given she's already seen him happily shoot down one of his own (assimilated) people on the Holodeck.
Even if it didn't fit well, she hadn't read the darn thing. So she would only would know the very basic plot points the same way as most of the viewers. I probably would have made the exact same comparison in her situation.... though with a lot more pants wetting terror. lol
exactly! we might know Picard's history but she doesn't, all she saw was a guy obsessed with revenge
I'll bet that transporter rooms 1 & 2 were so sick of never getting anything to do that they beamed the borg onto the ship.
It's possible that the transporter rooms ran in shifts. 1 and 2 might be off duty to rest.
@@chrisdufresne9359 Or that Transporters 3 and 4 are closer to bridge/medical ?
@mkosto The rotating crews are more likely given how large the crew must be. Shared bunk space would require a sleep rotation.
@@chrisdufresne9359 sleep rotations go out the window when battlestations is called. As a retired Navy man, if any "red alert" type situation is going on, ain't nobody staying in bed. It's all hands on deck.
@@reliantncc1864 That would imply that Starfleet is a military like organization. We all know that they would never have been militaristic. Picard swore as much.
5:01 “Riker survives this!” Best sin in all of CinemaSins history!
I was hoping someone else picked up on that.... Had to scroll through a LOT of serious nerdery to find you. I had to go back and watch it again.. mostly because it was so damn hilarious and partly because my laughter made me miss several sins that followed it. 😂
I think it's my favorite CinemaSins sin as well. I laughed myself silly over that one.
In fairness, even Druidia's air shield and President Skroob's luggage had more digits
Also to be fair, the air shield and luggage was just numbers, so only 100,000 combinations, while the command code was numbers AND letters, so 1,679,616 combinations.
@@battlesheep2552 I love when someone does the math.
Rolling the entire franchise's credits lead to total sins of 1,701 -- absolute genius!
I kind of expected the end total to be 1701. C'est la Vie
Shit I didn’t notice that LMAO. Jeremy does this quite a bit; there’s also him giving Trump a small loan of a million sins in Home Alone 2, and giving Dragonball Evolution over 9000 sins.
Can now stop scrolling. Saw this reply!
I really hoped that the final sin score would equal the date the movie was set in. O well
My grandpa passed away two Februarys ago and _Star Trek_ was one of his favorite shows and franchises to watch. So, whenever I hear Jerry Goldsmith's _"First Contact"_ theme, I'll forever think of him.
*hugs* I hope he is sailing unfathomably awesome skies with history's greatest explorers, playing poker with history's greatest physicists, and drinking Romulan ale on Riza with ancestors, and that he has a shuttle reserved for you to bring you to his side (not too soon!!) in the Ultimate Frontier.
Picard is the flag captain, this would make him the most senior captain in the fleet and the rest of the fleet would be inclined to defer to his command.
Additionally the entire fleet would be well aware of Picard's experience in defeating the Borg the first time, which would again, give him the expertise required to take command of the fleet.
It was Picard's crew that did the work defeating the Borg in _Best of Both Worlds._ He was assimilated. Yes, he told Data about the "sleep" command, but that was only after his crew assaulted the cube, took him back, and Data managed to connect to him. Picard himself was completely helpless.
Also from Voyager: Article fourteen. In a combat situation involving more than one ship, command falls to the vessel with tactical superiority
As mentioned, the Enterprise-E is the newest and best ship in the fleet, built with the express intent of kicking butt, taking names, and appearing glorious in Widescreen format.
When did Picard ever defeat the Borg?
@@michaelcook7107You looked it up this morning didn't you?
Good thinking.
"The slow blade penetrates the shield." -- Gurney Halleck (Patrick Stewart, conveniently)
Yes, the Borg have always had the option of going back in time, but assimilating Earth in the past was a last-second fallback plan, not plan A for the Borg. Messing around with the timeline is as risky for the Borg as it is for humans (after all, they rule huge swaths of space in the present, they dont want to risk messing that up). They probably prefer not to go that route. It was only once the cube was exploding that they launched the time travel probe.
Also, assimilating a more advanced Earth culture would make sense, rather than the more primitive one.
@@brunozeigerts6379 But the less advanced is way easier to overcome, they didn't have Warp capacity yet.
@@Justforvisit Easier to overcome. less useful. Though the Borg could assimilate the Vulcans when they show up.
I've always seen the time travel aspect as a last resort....since, you know, their ESCAPE POD is the ship that does it.
I like to think that the Borg had a means of determining possible futures before going ahead and traveling back in time. That way, they could weigh the pros and cons of such an action. Like maybe, they saw a future where the Federation would be impossible to assimilate and thought "AW HELL NO" and decided to take them early as a means of preventing this outcome.
Still one of the best Star Trek movies ever made and one of the best films of 1996.
true. surprisingly good and succesful, too. Sad it all went down after that for the movies while DS9 became more cinematic than anythig else on tv. Still supersad they never did a crossover movie or just some cameos.
Being sinned is not a criticism. It's an homage. :)
1998 is when i went to see it.. and have no idea it had been out for over 1 year ..... this is how uninformed i was before the internet
I always figured Geordi and Riker went on the Phoenix because the two guys who went with Cochrane were actually killed in the Borg torpedo attack the day before. They just used the dead guys' names for historical purposes. Plus, Geordi and Will would be 1000 times better than any two 21st Century dudes.
Geordi and Riker were always the two other pilots, because it already happened
Well, Geordi I can see (npi) but Riker's superpower would be seducing any females they might run across, and since theyre looking for Vulcans...
I always thought that Lily was supposed to go with him, but was obviously unavailable.
Ahh, when Beverly activated the hologram when the Borg entered the medical bay was an excellent scene as well.
EMH :
" I'm a DOCTOR ,
not a doorstop "
Fun fact the captain didn't learn the lesson of Captain Ahab because he later went on to play him in a 2 part tv mini series
This was the first Star Trek movie I saw in theaters. Despite some plotholes, it's still awesome.
I rank this one as the second best Star Trek film after Wrath Of Khan of course.
Those pesky potholes 😂
Plot holes
This was the first movie I saw in theaters too. I was like 3. I always had nightmares of the Borg lol
The biggest hole is when the Borg sphere flies off towards earth and everyone just stands around discussing it..... blow the fucker up.
Movie over
“When did data break free”
His “0.68 seconds line” is shown before that as he fired the torpedoes. As his hand comes down to press the control he hesitates a fraction of a second.
The funny thing about the Ahab line is that Patric Steward starred in a TV mini series about Moby Dick where he played captain Ahab not 2 years after this movie hit the theaters.
That was an amazing adaptation of Moby Dick, in my opinion. I loved seeing Patrick Stewart play Ahab.
Fun Fact: The Borg Queen was created because the writers were having difficulty in writing dialogue for what was intended to be the Borg's central computer.
END OF LINE
I consider myself to be a Star Trek fan but I’m constantly blown away by the things other people know😂
Fun Fact: NEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRDDDDDD!
@@yawger9762 easy Homer. =P
is it so much in writing the lines, or just the visual of having Picard talk to a computer bank, in every scene with the Queen? Janeway spoke to the collective in Scorpion, just a green screen of the interior of the cube's alcoves, would that satisfy you, for Picard, on the big screen? (personally, think it was also the tacit acknowledgement, that no matter how 'collective' a society is, it still has to have some kind of leader, someone to make the final call)
Sure this was pointed out, but The Matrix came out after First Contact. I also like how when the Borg first attack and they join the Starfleet channel, they say they are engaging the Borg and somehow in the span of 20 seconds someone is able to report "96 dead, and 22 wounded on the Lexington"... magic sensors on that one.
Of course it did, but a similar sin was used for the Bird Of Prey explosion in EWW Trek VI and Les Poissons in EWW The Little Mermaid. CS even clarify in the latter that no, they don’t care which came first.
Ah, but they DID reference that other beloved Trek show by having the Defiant in the battle. They also reference Voyager with an appearance by the Doctor as well as Ethan Phillips(Neelix) in the holodeck.
I know how difficult it must have been, to finally break down and sin-count the TNG movies...
You are stronger than you know, and we're proud of you.
Okay, Jeremy... you REALLY got me at 10:31 .... Rolling the "Sin Counter" to 1701..... that was fucking brilliant!
OK, the Voyage Home reference about the Prime Directive was OUTSTANDING. Well done. One sin removed.
Assimilation tubials can penetrate metal. A pressure suit would be easy. And assimilation is rather fast, as you see in the first fight
"Roll an entire franchise's worth of credits."
Holy crap! I was just watching this movie last night and said the exact same thing! 😂😂😂
You told him about the statue was an EPIC line. Thoroughly enjoy this movie.
Riker would be excellent at CinemaSins.
@@papasyscon6037especially when commenting on Worf saying “threesome” in PIC or realizing just how heavy Worf’s sword is
Yeah the director told him exactly how he wanted the line to be said.
@@joekerr3638 thats funny. The entire statue subplot was something I totally enjoyed. Yet another instance of someone high up in the Star trek universe said screw this situation and the hell with the prime directive
this may sound silly but I never understood the info overload making him want to run away. If people I believed were from the future came to me and said "you will do something at work that changes the world" I'd guess they were right and help them/myself out. Although I have no idea how migrating applications to the Cloud would cause something monumental.
Love how the counter rolls to "1701" on the "star trek" sin. 🤣
I'd not thought about how Data's skin is probably him wearing a crewmate suit. And now it's in my brain.
Thanks for that.
Picard's hatred for the Borg makes more sense when you take into account his brother and family's death in Generations. The episode after he was assimilated, Picard visited them and and that helped him deal with the trauma of what happened.
A huge batch of movies before and after this one and it's still my all time favorite Star Trek movie. I've seen it so many times I can quote it.
First Contact is EXCELLENT but it's not better than Wrath of Kahn...
@@BilTheGalacticHero to be fair I've always enjoyed TNG more than TOS. Wrath of Khan is a classic that shouldn't be missed, but I've always liked the Borg more as the unstoppable enemy.
@@BilTheGalacticHero Honestly I can't decide. They are both so good. Certainly the best 2 Trek movies, though 6 is a runner up.
@@BilTheGalacticHero IV is by far the best, with Khan and First Contact about even for 2nd. Khan was good but gets rebound credit because of the contrast with how incredibly awful the first Star Trek movie was.
One little error. Data is in no way a cyborg. He is 100% android. Cyborgs are a combination of organic and synthetic parts, but to be an android, you must be 100% synthetic
Yeah. The Borg are cybernetic organisms, machine and organic. Data is just cybernetic, a machine.
@@FutureDeep You mean Data is just Android, machine. You said cybernetic which is machine interfacing with organic
Even though the basic definition of cybernetics means that even the human brain can be considered a cybernetic system, from a science fiction standpoint, the term is usually referring to machine interfacing or combining with organic beings:
In the early 1970s science fiction writers produced some popular television serials, such as The Cyborgs and The Six Million Dollar Man, that dramatized the basic idea of cybernetics: that humans and machines can be combined to create a perfectly controlled system that will always achieve its purpose.
Searched specifically for someone that already pointed this out.
True. He is always saying "I'm an Android". And don't forget, he is even the dream the Borg tries to achieve, becoming completely robotic.
To be fair, Q isn’t humanity’s enemy. He’s a trickster god, to be sure, but he never outright intended to harm humanity. It’s all a test
Also: Q cannot simply make galaxies disappear. He is not alone in the Q Continuum and meddling with the fabrics of space is the biggest crime you can do as a Q. He would be not only made a human that time - but killed in a supernova
17:55 Always assumed Picard could 'hear' Data the same way he said earlier in the movie he can 'hear' the Borg. After all, presumably, Data has been partially assimilated at that point.
This is even further explained in Picard that even after being assimilated that Picards biology was altered.
Also borg shields work against energy weapons, thats why Worf’s blade and the tommy gun works against them. Also also, actually actually, you are right about that it would make more sense to load up a program with a military base, it is well established what kind of programs would picard and his crew run (which they usually write themselves), so he could load up this with just a simple command, whereas he should have specified what kind of weapons etc. he would need the computer to synthesise for him.
yeah, but it wouldn't have looked so cool onscreen - Picard in a white dinner jacket, wielding a tommy gun with a bunch of well-dressed holograms around him, gorgeous....and probably easier to film, than mocking up a military base (or finding a real one to film on, and having pyrotechnics & such)
"I need guns... lots of guns."
And yet CinemaSins is exactly right. Why not just shoot daggers at them if that works? If Borg can't adapt to physical weapons, just make sure you replicate a bunch of guns any time you expect to fight them.
@@reliantncc1864 surely they can adapt to projectile weapons
@@histguy101 maybe, but we have no evidence of it despite many physical attacks against them. If they could, surely it would be far simpler than adapting to phasers.
It would have been funny if the count had ended at 1701 and/or had then coninued in letters 🤣
Oh now I get what the number wad referencing
5:01 "Riker survives this"
Thanks for what's probably the best laugh I've had all month 🤣
Should have taken away a sin for the CGI shot of the Queens head and neck dropping in to her body and walking, it's still impressive.
The Moby Dick reference actually goes deep!.... in a year! Stewart was helmed to play Captain Ahab in the Moby Dick mini-series. Must've had the same time-travelling writer as this movie...
And he was FUCKING FANTASTIC
Stealing from the matrix? That's quite the feat, seeing as this movie came out 3 years BEFORE the matrix
Weeeell, they HAD time travel :P
Thank you!
In relation to the Smithsonian line, with transportation technology, Picard when he was a boy could literally visit every day if he wanted to
Yeah, and so could 10 billion other people. Think of the queue times.
Though, don't think his dad would have been keen on that.
Came here for that. Damn I'd go to Air and Space again in a heart beat.
@RettMikhal Picard actually said that he "saw" it hundreds of times. It's not at all unreasonable that the museum would have a holo-tourism function so anyone could see it without a physical presence.
Who says that the Smithsonian is like you know it?
a. Washington was most likely vaporized in WW3 - whcih means the old smithsonian don't exist anymore.
b. In Picards youth they already had Holodecks. We can even nowadays do virtual tours through the Smithsonian thanks to VODs of people being there and there is even a VR Game where you can go through the Museum. So he most likely didn't went "in person" to the Smithsonian, but in a Holodeck in his home town - and therefore of course he couldn't really touch the Phoenix, as it was just a simulation and if the holodeck technology was not as good as on the Enterprise, the holograms might not even had substance, but were only projected lights = he would simply grab through the rocket (which would by the way also make sense because then you could just go INTO the rocket and see the interior of it displayed to you.)
Wasn't there an episode of TNG that explained why so many humanoid races in the galaxy look like humans? I believe it was called "The Chase"
Yeah, the majority of them have common ancestry.
....okay, shout "NEEEERD" all you want...
But the reason why Borg Sheilds work against phasers and not blades is because the Borg sheilds are adaptive and counter the frequency of the phaser fire, thus cancelling out the wave length.
Its why shifting phaser fireing frequency temporarily works against borg sheilds... But only temporary.
They cannot adapt to metal slicing them, theres no energy wave to counter....
Thank you.
Same tactic used by SG 1 against Gould [Horus?]. "Fast" projectiles blocked by force fields. "Slow" ones aren't.
@@CybranMonkeylord Dune as well, though in Dune those force feilds were more undone by consistent force, vs one very fast projectile.
Thus the slow dropping bombs and the knives which needed slow pressure to push past the shield.
This is definitely my favorite out of the Next Generation movies.
that is a very low bar to beat. But yes. By a LOT.
Worf showing up wasn't contrived. 7 months prior, he made a promise to visit his parents when Keiko was due to have the O'Brien's second baby. Despite what happened afterward with Kira, a Klingon honours his commitments, especially to his parents.
I always just assumed the Defiant was dispatched from DS9 to fight the Borg since it was designed to do exactly that
It wouldn't be a movie if The Sisko was in command.
"We are The Borg......Wait is he there? You're sure he's in the Badlands? Ok."
"lower your shields and surrender your ships."
@@wjs5875 Small correction. The Defiant was designed to guard against the Dominion.
The "I bring you love" bit from the Simpsons, really needed Lenny's response.
"IT'S BRINGING LOVE, BREAK ITS LEGS!"
3:58 The captain of the flagship has seniority over the rest of the fleet in the absence of an admiral, who they confirmed was dead a few seconds earlier.
Not gonna sin off the shot where they slowly inject a needle into Picard’s eye?
The insert of the Austin Powers clip while trying to explain the grandfather paradox was brilliant. 😂
I think it's a sin that they added on a ton of sins at 10:31 only to NOT have the total add up to 1701 at 20:45
The sin about them seei mg an assimilated earth makes sense. At first they were caught in the temporal wake which protected the ship and they saw what earth would be like if they didn’t go back… for that instant they saw earth if they didn’t go back because at thst moment the enterprise was outside normal space time and thus saw the universe if they did nothing
IMO The Orville took the best approach to this subject in S3E6 "Twice in a Lifetime". It has to do with quantum superpositions, & choices/actions.
The story is thus: After Lt. Gordon Malloy is accidentally teleported back in time to early 21st century Earth, the crew debate whether or not to try to send the whole ship back to rescue him. They also look in their computer database and find a previously non-existant record of Gordon Malloy existing as a seemingly normal American citizen up until his death by old age in the mid 21st century.
On the one hand, everything on the Orville, there in the 25th century, still seems the same, despite the fact they all know that changing ANYTHING in the past could severely alter the present. This would seem to imply that Gordon WAS rescued before his presence could affect the course of history, which would mean the crew must choose to go back & get him. But on the other hand, the historical record seems to prove that never got rescued, & lived out the rest of life in the past, so there's be no point in the ship going back to get him. It's a paradox before they've even done anything.
This is where Isaac (the Orville's version of Data) explains how it all works. He says the timeline is in flux, and the record of Gordon living & dying in the past is just one possible outcome. He says they are in a quantum superposition of the Gordon rescue mission both having happened & not happened at the same time, and they won't get back onto a single timeline until they choose what to do.
@@darthgorbag that episode is really good but it is so sad with what they do. They erase his life and he was so happy. I get it and why they did it but hard to watch it knowing they will destroy his happiness.
Jumping the counter to 1701, brilliant 😂
I'm so glad you all finally got to this one. For me, this is the best film in the entire franchise.
Agree 😊
***Khan enters the chat***
6:43 Come on! That epic and joyful casual "Greetings" by Data after he has been shot with a machine gun deserves at least one Sin off!
In absence of a fleet commander, command shall fall to the vessel with tactical superiority.
- Capt. Janeway, “The Equinox”
And that’s why Jean Luc takes over the fleet no questions asked.
nnnnnnnnnnngh..... _teeeeeeechnically......_
the Akiras and Steamrunners had been fully deployed for at least 2 years at that point, and the Defiant before that.
with the Defiant disabled, command should have gone to the Thunderchild or the Geronimo, backed up by official orders, as the Enterprise was said to stay clear of there.
It's also the flagship of the fleet so that helps too
The Borg having time travel gets even stranger when you find out the Borg only started researching how to do so, thanks to a comic crossover with Doctor Who.
“You do remember how to fire phasers…”
Riker survives this 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I'd have luved it if you'd removed a sin from when Troy thunks her head on the table in a drunken stupor; that was funny as hell 🤣🤣🤣.
Brilliant Sins podcast 😁.
I'm a Trekkie and love this film. This was quite possibly the funnies Cin Sin I've seen over the years.
21:54 😆 Lost it @ 21:58 and 22:11
What audio is on the outtake at 21:58?
What I love about the titular First Contact moment is that in full Star Trek fashion, Vulcan gets off the ship on Earth for the first time and is speaking English. Maybe he learned a phrase to say, but it's still funny.
The Vulcans were studying Earth for years. Why can't they know the major languages of the world?
@@Awestefeld6612 I thought of that too. Of course Enterprise, produced a little later, demonstrates Vulcans, despite having no interest in "too primitive" Earth was incognito visiting Earth, one of the participants being one of T'pol's ancestors.
@danandtab7463 they didn't need to land and observe incognito. We are putting out radio waves every minute. For all we know, some alien race watched this video.
It could be argued how Vulcan make first contact is where the Federation got its own policies from. The Federation makes detailed survey's including in many cases people going incognito to gauge how a society will react to a First Contact meeting when they reach the technological level to have warp drive. I think its mentioned somewhere Vulcan's had already been on Earth studying it.
Worf showing up wasn't contrived; the Defiant was literally designed to fight the Borg- NOT having it in the Borg incursion would be a really shooting of the foot.
Wasn't it actually sent out to deal with the threat of the Dominion for DS9? Or is this after?
@@hallaloth3112 It was stationed at DS9 during the time FC took place; but again, it was stationed there, and could be sent out and recalled for greater threats. (It was before the Dominion War started; the Battle of Sector 001 was mid-2373, the Dominion War started in late 2373- and that little war with the Klingons ended in early 2373... seriously, that was a crazy year.)
@@Sephiroth144 Okay, I admittedly hadn't looked at the timeline. We just finished DS9 a couple weeks ago and I thought it stated the Defiant had been commissioned to deal with the Dominion.
@@hallaloth3112 Ah- no, it was originally commissioned to -fuck up- fight the Borg. Sisko mentioned in the first episode of the 3rd season "It was designed for one purpose one- to fight and defeat the Borg"; but shoot, one line of dialogue in seven seasons can get lost...
If you have a moment to look up the Defiant Development patch/logo, Starfleet literally wore the Defiant's purpose on their sleeve- well, at least the development team did.
@@Sephiroth144 Ah tnka,s I wondered if it a missed line of dialogue
You're right, Jerry Goldsmith's opening theme is a beautiful piece of composition.
The Doctor: "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff."
“People assume time is a straight line, but from a non straight line perspective, it’s actually not a straight line”
"I dont wanna be a statue"
"You told him about the statue?"
Never heard the Borg described as "robot zombies" before! That's fucking hilarious!! 😂😂
Thank you for calling out on Picard casually telling his crew to murder their assimilated crewmates. There’s a book where the husband of one of them is angry at Worf for killing the love of his life. When Picard tries to explain that the man was already a drone, the husband points out that so was Picard once.
I guess if you’re not a main character, no one gives a shit. And it’s not like that actor won’t become a magical villain or something
What character was this, what actor who becomes a magical villain?
@@darthgorbag Lieutenant Hawke played by Neil McDonough. These days known as Damien Darhk in the Arrowverse
They lacked the time and medical equipment needed to de-assimilate. The best option when pushing for the survival of the ship and of humanity is to kill the drones.
Hahaha! "Starfleet should really think about reviewing the privacy settings on their android devices. You know, you just can't be too careful with your personal Data." Man, that was clever. I definitely LOL'd at that one.
A real Trekker would know that 80%+ of these sins are just complaining about the movie not holding Jeremy's hand.
I'VE NEVER BEEN MORE READY FOR THIS!
Yep
Neeeeeeeeeeeerds!
That was hilarious!
I remember hearing in the original script that Borg were going to send a fleet of Borg cubes which would be destroyed by a fleet of star ships firing quantum torpedos, hence the time travel thing was a sort of Hail Mary once they got their asses kicked
The boots weren't magnetized because you don't need them to be when you are inside the ship with gravity.
And no sin for Lily slapping the phaser into Picard's hand, buttons down, with the front facing him? She really could have vaporised him.
Stealing from the Matrix? This was realsed in 1996, the Matrix in 1999.
I've watched this movie more times than I remember.
I watched this movie a few years ago and it was awesome
This is actually the first Trek film I watched front to back when I was in grade school. I think it went on to inform my sensibilities towards the zombie genre. It definitely developed my love for gritty sci-fi.
and I'll watch it again and again!
10:29 Okay, moving the Sin Counter to the Enterprises famous registry number IS damn epic! xD
Ironically, (according to a novel), the guy Worf replaced at tactical is Zefram Sloan. Alleged descendant of Lily and Zefram Cochrane.
The Borg transported to the Enterprise undetected because earlier in the film after coming to the past Riker states...
"Shields are down, long range sensors are offline"
Hence HOW and WHY the Borg could do this at all and undetected.
After Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade THIS was the OTHER big movie I hoped for AGES that CinemaSins would FINALLY do a video about! Thanks man! Finally! What a time to be alive! :D
"Roll a franchise's worth of credits!" Sin counter jumps to 1701. Noice.
Picard's "The line must be drawn HERE!" speech deserved sin removals. You see Patrick Stewart's theater training in full effect, and one of his most emotional moments in the entire series.
4:00 all I will say is that in Voyager, the fleet regulations stated that tactical superiority was the deciding factor in which captain received "flagship" command when 2 or more command officers were present.
Also, it's Picard. He's the most accomplished captain they have in the quadrant. I think everyone knows who the guy is and why they should bow down.
@Tvirus12 more that the Enterprise E is labeled as the federation flagship. With the admiral likely dead it would fall to him in command
@@paulrasmussen8953 if Picard showed up in a Pakled freighter, he's still taking command of the fleet.
This is one of the earliest movies I remember watching! I love this movie so much thanks for doing it🎉🎉🎉
No sin off for Picards monologue? It's part of the reason this is my favorite Star Trek movie!
On sin 50, Data is not cybernetic, and as far as I'm aware has never been referred to as such except as a character error. A cyborg is a mix of organic and machine. Data is an android, a humanoid machine.
This movie is without sin, the line must be drawn here 😂
I'm joking, i love this movie and cannot wait to watch this. Please also sin voyager and take a sin off for the best damn theme song in trek history while you're at it
This is easily in the top 5 funniest CinemaSins video. I damn near passed out from laughing a few times!!!
No minus sin for the klingon theme on the defiant or " tough little ship" " little? "
I like how at 15:38 the newly assimilated crew member punches Picard's helmet and Picard reacts like it hurt him.
That the holographic bullets can kill might be explained by the fact, that every hologram consists out of light and forcefields. And I think if the computer moves the forcefield at let's say bullet - speed it could most certainly kill
Sorta.... It was explained before that holodecks have the ability to work like replicators, to a small extent. Thats why they can create edible food, plants, simple things that the computer can easily replicate. As long as the safety protocols are on, anything dangerous is artificial.
Now I'm imagining sweeping forcefields in ship corridors taking out attacking landing parties like the ship cleaning beam in that one episode of TNG.
It was in the tech manual, a holodeck is a combination of force fields, tractor beams, transporters, replicators and holograms, so much of the stuff (eg things you pick up and or touch) are replicated matter so picard actually has a tommy gun and ammo that has been replicated for him. /nerd
With safety protocols off, the holodeck just replicates interactive objects into real matter, Because why not?
The better question is: how do the borg conquer civilizations if their one true weakness is bullets?
@@SparkY0 i think its the scifi trope of defenses getting so good against energy weapons that melee weapons come back (see 40k, dune and many many others). I suspect its handwaved away by saying physical shields are more energy than 'energy; shields due to frequencies etc so a human sized object cant generate a physical shield as it would require more energy and size than is available or actual physical armour plating to be installed
While I love Star Trek, this movie had a lot of issues from Rambo Picard, the Borg Queen, time travel issues, retconning most of Star Trek TOS history including Cochran being from Alpha Centauri, humans already had interstellar sublight travel ala Khan, among others.
Well, the Alpha Centauri Cochrane was a VERY early version, and with all the futzing Kirk did to the timeline, its no wonder things got messed up. SNW sorta explained it that way.
Also, the lack of sub-lightspeed travel isn't even mentioned, and the entire vulcan plotline revolves around WARP speed travel and the detectable traces which result. There isn't any mention of sublight travel, either for or against established canon, within the movie.
Further, repressed trauma can manifest in a variety of ways, meaning that Rambo Picard, as you put it, is an entirely plausible potentiality psychologically. How people react when exposed to the source of their PTSD has been a matter of study for many years, and afaik, we still don't have any predictable patterns for how people will react when exposed to the source of their trauma.
This brought up so many memories, my step father took me to watch this at the movie theater. He loved star trek and was just a way to get me interested in something he liked.
The sin counter @10:32 was a nice touch. I laughed.