Yes, I would like to know as well. I know Jax labs said they couldn't answer their questions about breeding protocols because no one there was working there in 1997-ish and they didn't have any records. Or some bullshit like that.
Yes! I thought Eric was being melodramatic. Far from it. Bret could have a Nobel Prize to his name. This isn’t just a story of a kid who could’ve succeeded but says “oh well” and chooses to teach at the eccentric college. Bret was genuinely on the path to alter the world with his research. Now he’s condescended to by Dawkins as if Bret is an amateur outsider. I had no idea what a big deal Bret was in the research world. Fascinating turn of events!
@islanti It's not that science is dead, it's that the academic institution has been corrupted and isn't working as it should, and as a result, a cascade of failures follows downstream. Science is a method, and it is immortal, thankfully. As soon as we get back to doing it, and focusing on it, we will find that it has not atrophied one bit, only our use of it. If that wasn't true, we'd be well and truly fucked.
I know the Weinsteins are likely too smart for this, but man I wish men/people like THIS would run for political office or at least be on some damn committees! Such talent!
i second this. watching regular discussions between these two would give insight into fascinating ideas AND an example of how to dialogue with others. ( family included)
His brother was impeccable as a student and studied with some of the leading biologists in the field and Bret Weinstein isn’t been recognised for this which angers his brother Eric Weinstein because Eric views Brett as a man who is on the same level as any of the leading biologists out there but people don’t look at Brett like that because he choose to teach at an unknown university rather than a top Ivy League institution like Harvard or Princeton which would automatically guarantee his fame, prestige and the fact that he would be taken seriously by everyone including the leading biologists out there. Bret Weinstein is just looked upon as an ordinary teacher or professor when he’s a high level mind whose potential is been wasted on a low level institution that holds back his talent rather than enhance it
I totally agree! I'm sending this to my 2 brothers who haven't spoken in years and showing them that love can be communicated differently between them but it's still love.
BTW.... another interesting layer to their discussion is the blatant snobbery that exists in academia. Just because Bret wasn't working at an Ivy League institution automatically diminishes his theories?! That sickens me, because shouldn't academics be the very people who welcome thought from OUTSIDERS!?
Once Bret starts telling his actual story, this very quickly becomes a holy shit moment. This is a fascinating story in both the drama of what happened to Bret, and in the biological and medical discovery.
My theory as a psychotherapist is that highly empathic folks tend to get infected by those without empathy; the Bretts wind up losing their authority to tyrants they are wired to understand rather than subdue.
Maybe ... the release from Evergreen has allowed this public conversation? I personally think a great researcher like Bret should be at a medical facility, like Mayo Clinic, so he could advance human care.
The second half of this talk completely exemplifies precisely what Eric was trying to get across in the first half: that Bret is clearly an unrecognized genius, with the unrecognition due almost entirely to the fact that he cares little about being recognized. You can tell this has pissed Eric off for years. Tough love at its finest.
according to Bret and Eric, Bret is an unrecognized genius I like both of them, and I don't have any reason to doubt them, but given Eric's propensity to spin things, I don't have a great reason to believe Bret's work is all it's trumped up to be either I mean, I'd love to read Bret's book and go, "damn this guy _is_ a genius", but in the meantime let's not fanboy over everyone who talks nice on the internet
Chris C please have a little faith in people and lay off the 'fanboy' name calling. Bret did not call himself a genius. If you have no more evidence against him, let's get back to presuming innocence until proven guilty. Even the creator of the first IQ test did not claim it determined who is genius. When asked what it measured, he said only how well they could do on his test. Urging caution or skepticism in a less critical tone would give us less reason to doubt your intelligence.
Grieder should be ashamed of herself, but i bet she doesnt lose any sleep over it at all. Id say she deserves to be exposed, but before whom? Sounds like theyre all in on it...
Carol wanted to acknowledged Bret but she knew he'd understand the importance women representation. Truth be damned when serving the greater good of "diversity".
I have often found Eric to be overbearing, but here, ironically, in his most apparently overbearing performance, it has become evident he is motivated by immense love. Clearly I have not listened carefully enough. Eric sacrifices his own likability for the benefit of his counterparties and the audience generally. I have misjudged this man. His world class intellect is matched by the heart of a lion.
The way Eric typically does online talks, looking down at the camera is probably a big reason for your initial dislike. I find both of these men very interesting
@@abahgus he’s not at all complex. He’s honest and decent and we get frightened by sheer integrity and we think it complex. We are not used to pure decency.
Logos of Logic with Tyler Goldstein it’s so true!!! I do this with my little brother!!! He is too freakin nice. Sometimes I just want to ko him for being tossed around!
Nick MaGrick the way I see it, Eric was thinking “okay, this ridiculous and SOMEONE is going to be aggressive about it. If it’s not Bret then it’s me.” It’s like Eric is giving Bret a way to tell this story without coming off as vengeful
@@BFrydell yeah, its all out of concern for his brother. People can both be genuine and come off as a bit of an ass. Hes showing the frustrations that Bret is keeping in check.
This is like listening to music. It’s so clean, sober and straightforward. I love the way Eric loves Bret enough to get angry at him for hiding his genius. That may or may not be what Bret was doing, but the fact that Eric saw it that way and fought for him was genuine, brotherly love.
I've never respected Bret more than I do after this episode. I've watched him on Joe Rogan's podcast and was amazed at what he stood up to at ESU but my god, I had no idea just how incredibly brilliant this guy is. Thank you Eric for pushing him, for confronting him. He's a beautiful spirt with a huge heart but wow....what a mind. THIS is what I was hoping for from this podcast. BRAVO!!
I think it took a loving brother to push Bret so far and so hard. So much so, that Bret had to ask whether this was still the podcast or not! Absolutely fascinating discussion
Yes. I have suffered similar Personality issues. Self-doubt. Not standing up for myself. Social insecurity. I think I got better but I probably still have a deficit or tendency in that area, that is less obvious to me but probably still operating.
Big brother: Someone talked shit let's go fight them Little brother: Gee I don't know It might be dressed in fancy academia this time around, but this is a tale older than history itself.
The media also tapped out because although I love him eric Weinstein rejects offers to go on fox news because hes scared that the bolsheviks will call him "fox news contributor". You should ignore the labels, and talk to anyone that is open to discussion. You and your brother kick ass.
Same here. Bret and Eric are great minds, it’s just so unfortunate are that the demons behind the Evergreen incident are only getting worse . Seems like very few listened to Bret
I love Eric because he doesn't give a fuck. He knows he's at a place in his life where he can spout off about anyone and anything because he's secure in all aspects of life. His brother loves him, he's financially secure, and he has what he needs.
I had to look up this "Marcia, Marcia, Marcia problem"... Yep, Bret's right. Hopefully, Eric can try not to suffocate his little brother's actions. Two men can want fundamentally different things, even if they once shared common goals. After finishing, gruff, but utilitarian. Thanks to both of you! th-cam.com/video/ICVXf8Vznec/w-d-xo.html
I can see why he would be a teacher. His explanation of telomeres was so clean and smooth that even a hick like me was able to follow it. I feel smarter just from having watched this. Thank you very much!
Christopher Hampton: You hit it on the head! The best Teachers are the masters. We don’t have that anymore. How can we call someone a teacher, when they don’t master the subject they are trying to teach another. What?! It’s a catastrophe! Today the majority of teachers, teaching in schools, would fail in a debate on the subject they get paid to teach our youth to learn. What?! What a mess! Today’s teachers are not yesteryears teacher! These people are not ‘teachers’, it’s an insult to the profession! On the other hand, a scholar, a polymath, now those would do the world good by teaching our youth, and they would earn the Higher wages they deserve! Today’s ‘teachers’, aren’t teachers. What a catastrophe this is!
@@snafuagain5268 teachers need to earn more money and there needs to be some incentive to get the old, knowledgable people to retire earlier from their jobs, at which point those retirees would go teach for 5-10 years or whatever. we're losing a lot of knowledge with this shitty system. as it is now you have adult daycare workers reading shit out of a book
I just made a comment that’s almost the exact same sentiment as yours. I was able to follow very easily, even with my limited scientific knowledge. And I was engaged the whole way through. This was way more exciting than I expected from the introductory monologue.
I never could have guessed that one of the most interesting stories I would ever hear would begin “The theory of antagonistic pleiotropy was well established, but...”
I'm an immunologist who did his PhD on mouse models. This podcast is one of the best I've ever heard. Bret's insights into telomeres have implications so wide it's insane. It is science and prescience at its best!
@@adam1780 Kind of. Telomeres are well known to effect cancer/ageing. Looking more broadly, about 30% of discoveries in mice do not translate into humans as there are so many differences between mice and humans (not just telomere length) 😊 Unfortunately, a lot of people don't appreciate these differences in relevant fields.
The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine 2009 was awarded jointly to Elizabeth H. Blackburn, Carol W. Greider and Jack W. Szostak "for the discovery of how chromosomes are protected by telomeres and the enzyme telomerase." Which was their own work. The fact that Carol Greider refused to cite Bret's intellectual contribution to her subsequent paper related to mouse telomeres is as best, egregious and at worst, just sleazy as hell. I lean toward the latter, seeing how she became hostile toward him and tried to prevent his paper being published. Of course, since she's now got a Nobel, she politically has a coat of teflon against criticism. But sleazy is as sleazy does.
Well his Brother was a bit naive.I thought he got his paper eventually published would be good if there was a link to it and a transcription of the Nobel laureates speech. So we can judge for ourselves.
This is Unbelievable! I so hope this story becomes widespread knowledge!! The deviousness of that Carol and anyone who knew what she was up to and kept silent, or worse, became a part of it is unthinkable! You're both so brilliant, I wish you all the success you're so deserving of!!
The awkwardly contentious opening only makes sense when you get to the end, and that tension strengthened the impact of this story in such an unexpected way. This is the greatest podcast episode I have ever heard.
I honestly wished Eric would have put Bret in a headlock and told him just to spit it out, would have taken a hell of lot less time to get him to talk.
Wow this is literally the first time I've been given license to think critically about the peer review requirement. It's made to sound like standard quality control, but it's the perfect way to maintain the bull shit status quo.
Especially social science are aff/infected by the negative impact of peer review. It functions as a censor/filter with the intent to shape a world according to the zeitgeist of these institutions. At least this is what it felt to me, when studying social sciences.
Any measure of quality control can be used to enforce some person or group's self-interested. However, quality control is an important thing. The solution is two-fold: 1) quality control needs to be extremely transparent and 2) a large enough community must exist to self-police such a critical mass is met to thwart conspiracies (because conspiracies involving large numbers of people are doomed to fail)
Indeed, I've never in my life had my eyes opened so wide about such an important topic. There is nothing in the title and description of this podcast episode that even remotely hints at what a shockingly earth-shattering story is going to be told.
Peer review is central to the scientific process for very good reason, regardless of the persecution complex of the Weinsteins. It really is about quality control, and as a scientist I welcome peer review on my own papers just as much as I appreciate the effect it has on the quality of the other work I study and rely on. All of my papers have been improved thanks to thoughtful comments from peer reviewers, and as a reviewer I've been able to help make at least minor improvements to even the best papers I've reviewed. There are occasional reviewers who inject too much of their own ego or prejudices into their reviews or who are simply knuckleheads, but they can be politely dismissed by appealing to competent editors. What the Weinsteins don't tell you is how many of the papers that arrive at journals are profoundly bad, being the products of overworked grad students poorly trained by overworked professors, and demonstrating all kinds of sloppiness (such as lousy grammar, inconsistent terminology, incoherent ordering of ideas) and serious mistakes (such as misapplication or misinterpretation of statistical tests, various other math errors, conclusions not remotely substantiated by the data). Peer review filters out most of this bad work or forces the authors to fix it. The process as a whole is enormously beneficial to science. Without it, nobody would be able to get anything done because we'd have to spend all our time scrutinizing every paper we cite (and every paper they cite, and so on) for the kinds of dumb mistakes that fortunately get caught in peer review most of the time. The nearly non-existent role of peer review in the suppression of disruptive ideas is vastly exaggerated by would-be disruptors with delusions of grandeur, who can't convince informed colleagues that their ideas are valuable and instead run to the general public to complain about it. The truth is that we have so many journals eager for content that any scientist with a good idea, expressed well, can get it published in some legitimate journal or another. The only people being suppressed are those whose life circumstances make it too challenging to produce work of publishable quality in the first place (too little time, access to education, etc).
Gripping yes, but unfortunately not as groundbreaking as you hope if I may explain my position on why I think it’s just sad. The part I think you’re referring to about the short and long cells that mutate that could be a reason for cancer or never dying, if I’m not mistaken has been addressed since when Carol stole his hypothesis and received the Nobel prize. The other big story covered up was the, ( not at all implicated by Eric or Brett but it’s my accusation it was likely done on purpose as to not have deviation in their mice therefore reliable test results and drugs passed and a lot of money made) fact their mice couldn’t be scientifically sound if they were all the same and coming from the same place. Carol probably was an unwitting participant in these shenanigans until she realizes how that story alone could ruin her and her newest discovery she planned to steal from Brett. The problem about the mice was fixed I thought he said because sweeping it under the rug was easier than the whole can of worms it dug up exposing it. That being said, once the hypothesis is out there it’s out there and now the world knows and hopefully they’re doing w it what must be done...... Unless, it was done intentionally to begin with. In the Bible why did people live so many hundred years and now we don’t? Is it because there’s more money to be made in death w Big Pharma? Likely...... but can we do anything about it? No. It’s soo much bigger than we are and happens on so many more levels than you can imagine and your head w almost explode after you start to really understand this more. It’s still hard to wrap my head around because it’s a devastating fact to swallow and as such must be taken in small bites imo. I hope and pray I’m wrong and this like you say turns out to be the most important podcast in the world, but maybe I’m too jaded to have that optimism anymore because I truly think this is as far as it goes. Without the media behind you fully nothing reaches the masses and I don’t believe the same reluctant media w change their position and now back him and go against Carol, not in a 100 yrs.
@@user-qp3pu5yv1e not only are you extremely apathetic, but understanding whats going on doesn't make the conversation they are having here any less important. Its still easily one of the most important podcasts in the world and I don't think thats an overstatement. Thinking nothing can be done about it is just ... I feel like coming from you since you clearly understand most of whats going on, is just plain lazy. Or a serious lack of imagination. As an individual its hard to do anything about it, collectively as a group though we have so much power, and our individual actions do make significant impact. They depend on a good image and that people keep buying their stuff, big pharma or any corporation's really, biggest vulnerability in terms of its stability are the people it relies on. Besides things only got this bad in the first place from individuals taking action to do something they shouldn't have as individuals. From lobbyists, to hiding information, to making poor moral choices for career or profit. To say nothing can be done about it is asinine. As an example, ive put ideas out into the world, just talking about what seemed like nonsense to random people. 10-20 years later I see my same ideas propagating but being championed by different people. I had ideas about how cancer was curable, 3d printers like from star trek were possible, and that the world would be understood to be made up of geometry and nothing else. Some of my ideas didn't start completely with me but I think some did. I just keep talking about the stuff and the idea sits in peoples subconscious and gets passed around, much in the same way that advertisements use memes and manipulate people into passing around their mantras and narratives. Worst comes to worst we can always start a revolution, but hopefully things don't become that dire. But something can always be done and we always have a choice, even if its never clear what we should be doing.
Unbelievable indeed! Just the pharmaceutical implications alone blew my mind. Who would have thought the events at evergreen were such small potatoes compared to the intellectual savaging perpetrated upon bret!
The Portal is probably the greatest podcast. Only because there is no host in Eric's league intellectually. The meme of Thee Portal itself being potent and his guests being curated with an artistic genius. It is so refreshing to listen to these conversations.
@Holy Hand Grenades If you watch Bret's recent Darkhorse videos you can see his realization that the mob cannot be sated with reason. He's had to start adopting Eric's tactic because only that type of strategy will beat the similar strategy of the post-modernists (the only answer is to say "no" and do it fiercely, there is no other option against ideologically possessed people who don't even understand their own stance).
Bret’s approach to changing minds is more like my own, at least at the personality and social level (because I’m nowhere near as useful or productive of a person as he is). I think Eric is saying that Bret needs to actively pursue positions of respect so that he will have the power to direct the thoughts and conversations of the field more quickly in a beneficial direction. Bret, meanwhile, at least in his mind, is playing a totally different game of trying to change the minds of the existing respect-holders as opportunities to do so arise without seeking those positions himself. Perhaps he feels or worries that seeking those positions will be seen as selfish or egoistic and will undermine public perception of his work. Or maybe he just finds that the process to get there or to perform that role too personally distasteful, uncomfortable, or stressful and is just a mismatch for the way his mind works. The real questions are, which tactic is more effective more quickly, and which is best suited to Bret’s mind, personality, and personal life goals? If Bret can in fact accomplish more from a more-respected position, and there is a way to do so that fits with Bret’s mind and life, then Eric is right, and Bret just needs to somehow get there. If any of that is not true, perhaps Bret is already on the right track or doing his best. Bret seems to feel that he is on the right track already but is having a hard time fully explaining himself to Eric - he hasn’t been keeping a tally of all his perceived accomplishments and progress toward his goals and has no way to pull all that out on-the-spot even if he feels their existence in the back of his mind. Eric is having trouble fully explaining how exactly his vision for Bret would work and why Bret would be able to accomplish more if he fulfilled that vision. Either strategy is probably better-suited to certain cases. ....Maybe we just need both types of minds working together as a team!
You had me on board already, but when you said peer review is a cancer, you sealed my support forever, for whatever that may be worth. And now I understand why you push your brother so hard on not selling himself short.
This is the classic moment - where the older sibling says “you’re better than this” - and the younger sibling says “but I’m fine, we’re just different”
they are not geniuses, just normal people. it's the context that makes them look like geniuses. try do the same thing you do and you will be there. if you have the money at least.
Aron Gabor So try it yourself, & see how smart you look. It doesn’t take much money to start a humble podcast. No one’s saying that they’re “Geniuses”, but I damn well bet that they’re smarter, & think more ‘outside of the box,’ especially scientifically, than your average person; including you.
Oh no, you mean those predictions that people will be able to live 1000 years and that these people have already been born, are wrong?!? I can't believe it.
Unless you can learn to breath better throughout your life, and eat and fast better, and get better blood flow, in part, through progressive physical movement practices. Then tumors may be staved off indefinitely.. till you die from something.
In terms of "Holy shit, what happens next?!", this is the best episode yet! This discovery is a book, a film, and a snapshot into brilliance. I remember being this entertained while watching the dramatization of cracking the Enigma Code. Here's to hoping someone as capable as Benedict Cumberbatch plays Eric in the film adaptation of this story.
Having learned, in this podcast, of the exchange between Bret and Richard Dawkins, I watched that discussion. I have never seen Dawkins look more challenged and vulnerable than in that discussion. Bret, you belong at this table and are becoming my new hero of evolutionary biology. Can't wait to dig into your work as I did with Dawkins"Selfish gene" 25 years ago. Again, thanks Eric for giving Bret the chance to shine amongst the "evolutionary literati".
@@jacobbailey5498 Dawkins work advanced Darwins insight, so for this I will always revere him. But his current dismissal of others, outside the academic ivory tower, has begun to crack the facade a little for me. Thanks for commenting Jacob. He is also militantly atheist and for this bravery I also laud him.
Add me to this list. Not only do I find the mice topic fascinating, I'm pretty on-board with his #unity2020 plan to bring the put an end to the 2 part system. Go check it out
That means her intentional selfishness caused masses of strangers to endure torturous condition and death. What a shame to eternally wear on one's name.
Can anybody here even imagine what it would look like to see Bret pissed off or mad? Brets ability to keep a cool head and find a better way to respond is impressive. Great podcast! I was expecting a completely different conversation, and I'm happy to have been wrong with my expectation. This was far more interesting.
I'm just a simple man with almost zero education... this just blew my mind. Fascinating and terrifying at the same time. The portal is the best podcast ive found. Preference falsification, distributed idea suppression complex . Cant wait to watch the next episode . Thanks!
This was the most interesting, profound and weighty thing I've ever seen on TH-cam. Thank you Eric for getting your little bro to do it. It's obvious you love him very much.
yeah, and whose gunna fund that movie? And if it gets even close to production, what about the same group of people that prevented his work from becoming known in the first place? Do you think this corruptions really contained to just that college?
I'm here because of Bret's appearance on Joe Rogan's podcast talking about the elongation if mice teelameers (probably spelt that wrong) and the pharmaceutical industries drug tests and the danger humans because of a fatal flaw in the mice genetic structure... Really had to know more of the story because looking at my medicine cabinet makes me wonder if we're all playing a game of Russian Roulette with pill bottles
This is the best ep of the portal. It’s not awkward. It’s honest. This is the quintessential podcast archetype that defines the whole reason why people listen to podcasts.
I’m SO glad to hear you Eric with Brett, who is a”hero “ of mine. I’ve had the honor of trading emails with him over the past 3 years. I would stand by his side anytime anywhere. Thanks
I was deeply impressed with how Bret handled the entire Evergreen situation. We have similar tendencies at our Universities in Sweden, where I am from. Even in large parts of the western world from what I can see. In Sweden, we have legal cases where teachers and professors have been wrongfully sacked from their jobs because a small group of SJW's have come up with false accusations of racism on extremely loose grounds. A survey in Sweden shows that 2 out of 3 teachers are afraid of being reported for various reasons. This has resulted in a culture of silence where students and teachers don't dare to speak freely. This is not healthy for the debate. When we have "discussion seminars" in schools and universities, a large group of students sit completely silent because they do not dare to participate in the debate. The thought police are very strong in Sweden. Sometimes I can almost feel the "Stasi vibes" in the air. A little scary I have to admit and I don't like it.
Sweden has been on this path for a long time. Statist attitudes inevitably lead to conformity in thought and behavior--to defer all important decisions to the state is by definition to surrender individual decision-making.
So how long are you willing to tolerate this? Because they will tighten the noose more and more - resulting in less and less freedom of expression in any way. Nobody will come in from the outside to "liberate" you - you either resist or you will be crushed. (From a Citizen of an ex socialist country in Europe).
I listened to the audio of this a few weeks ago and I think it was one of the best podcasts I had heard in a long time. Happy the video is now available. One of the best things I've seen in a long time.
I just want to add as an addendum, having finished listening to the full podcast that A. I wish my own older brother had been so hard on me so as to elevate my better nature, but more importantly that B. as a member of Generation X, I regard this as a call to action against the self serving gatekeepers holding back a groundswell of potential in human advancement (looking at you, Mr. Dawkins). These two men are as brilliant as they are compassionate, & I so admire their affection for one another. God speed!
Eric was annoying at times but I see what he was being so hardheaded and I think his interjections were necessary for people like me who have no formal education on this shit to be able to grasp some of the more “wordy” concepts they were conveying.
Having lived a similar fiasco(with substantially lower stakes of course) during my Phd at Karolinska University, I think that the main problem is that there are no incentives to publish reproducible results. If I had any control at a funding agency I would give out grants to labs that disprove top tier publications.
In alignment with the topic discussed, organisations have replication mechanisms (e.g. hiring / firing policies that ensure staff are hired somewhat in the likeness of their hirers) but they have no equivalent of a short telomere so they go on to replicate over generations without stopping. Over time they are likely to develop ‘cancerous’ behaviours that perpetuate the organisation but fall short of its original purpose. I’m interested in what would happen if public organisations were automatically disbanded after (say) 20 years (roughly a generation), the management let go and a brand new organisation is formed - not unlike a forest fire. There would be some initial inefficiencies for sure but in the long term would breathe new life into the institution
This is an incredible story. I want to hear more about Bret's work, please make this a regular thing. Also, the whole DISC thing seems to permeate into every institution. Institutions evolve to protect themselves.
Great point - I’ve often thought that organisations have replication mechanisms (e.g. hiring / firing policies that ensure staff are hired somewhat in the likeness of their hirers) but they have no equivalent of a short telomere, so they go on to replicate over generations without stopping. Over time they are likely to develop ‘cancerous’ behaviours that perpetuate the organisation and fall short of its original ideals and purpose. I’m interested in what would happen if public organisations were automatically disbanded after (say) 20 years (roughly a generation), the management let go and a brand new organisation is formed - not unlike a forest fire. There would be some initial inefficiencies for sure but in the long term would breathe new life into the institution
An Epic podcast! 0:00:00 - 0:27:00 jiber juber 0:27:00 Eric talk about DISC 0:37:00 Discussion begins 1:02:31 Death by immortality 1:29:29 🤯 1:51:12 🤯🤯 (Waiting for the movie ♥️)
Just finished watching this - really one of the best stories ever told. I am equally excited as I am terrified! Excited for Bret, as something has to come of this by way of recognition. Excited for Eric as this, for me, so far is the single most podcast of all so far shown that exemplifies exactly what I think you wanted the Portal to be. Terrified that 'our superiors' really don't seem to have our best interests at heart! I'm a 45 year old stay at home mum, I don't have any scientific background to speak of whatsoever, yet you guys spoke with such simplicity and clarity that I could follow you even if I don't understand the technical stuff, but if it permeates the public concious and filters out to our children, things will have to change. This is huge. GO THE PORTAL! x
I didn't have time to read all 4,800+ comments, but someone down the line suggested that this should get a movie deal. What a story! Bret and Eric's discussion gives us insight into how and why lay persons tend to regard "The Science" as set-in-stone and unchallengeable. Well done, gentlemen.
"What if the Hayflick Limit is a protection against dying from immortality at a cytological level, that if some cell gets a dream of immortality that it shouldn't have because let's say it's a somatic cell and it says, ok, let's keep dividing and dividing and dividing - nature knows how to do this - and that immortality, which sounds good at first, is actually called cancer. And so in computer science we would say you've introduced a recursion into a while-loop or a for-loop to make sure you don't have a resource leak, which is what a tumor is." ...holy shit... **head explodes**
If you'd like your head to keep exploding, marry this knowledge up with PKD's VALIS experience and his scary quote, "The Empire Never Ended." and then follow that up with some DMT or holotropic breathing while you reflect on the nature of 'Empire' and 'Ego'. 😉
@@TheJeremyKentBGross Phillip K. Dick. He's a dead scifi author who was fairly prolific. Inspired Blade Runner, The Matrix, and like 4 other movies you may or may not have seen. He was channeling Gnostic mythology at the time, and Gnosticism is all about having an *experience* of the divine.
There's a lot of comments from Rogan fans saying this convo needs to happen on Joe’s show so those of us that aren’t geniuses can follow. But I’d argue that’s what makes Bret so unique. He can take super complex subjects & explain them in a way that “normies” can not only understand but get excited about. His appearances on Rogan were amazing because Bret (and Heather) are amazing! But Eric spent half this podcast trying to beat that quality out of him, which is why it feels like Rogan is the missing factor. Don’t get me wrong-Eric has played a role in my new found interest into science & intellectual perspectives, but I gotta be in the right place to take it in. With authentic Bret it’s always easy & I know by the end of his videos-I’ll come out on the other side smarter than when I started AND I can repeat what I’ve learned from him cause it resonates. Erik blows my mind while he’s talking but I have no idea what he was saying after the video is over! I am no Steven Hawking, but there’s a lot of people like me that are craving an intellectual conversation where they don’t feel talked down to. Bret’s style has been integral in my “waking up” process & I hope he never changes. Hearing his story (what happened & who he is) the way that he tells it, single handedly caused my red pill moment. And that matters…..because I’m positive I am not the only one who’s life has changed as a result.
Here's why, Melissa. Brett speaks as an intellectual speaking to a classroom of undergraduate students. Eric speaks as an intellectual sharing discourse with other academics. He's not dumbing down his speech for the audience. I have a Master's level education (Psychology) and I like Eric's podcasts, but I know that Brett reaches more people. Most Americans are barely Bachelor's level comprehension. Sad but true.
DIVISIONINCISION that makes sense. But even more reason for Bret to be Bret & Eric be Eric, right? YOU are gonna be an intellectual whether you listen to either of these guys podcasts. But there’s a shift happening right now & many people are now waking up and craving substance. Substance that they can understand. That’s why these 2 approaches are needed in these times. When I listen to Erik, I always learn something new....usually mind blowing. But I can’t tell anyone I know cause they’d be lost (sadly). But Bret gets me ecstatic & excited about evolutionary biology, always inspiring me to leave him & learn more about a subject.
It's almost hard to believe when Eric was in JRE he actually undersold the story, I thought it was just hyperbole, but oh my god, Bret deserves the credit he is owed.
@Johnny Crustacean I disagree. If i were to restate my understanding of Petersons "God" in my own words, it would be: A psychological projection of the asymptomatic target of human evolution representing the set of behaviors statistically most likely to get you to the top of the set of all possible competence hierarchies. That seems like a pretty brilliant insight to me. While there are things that I'm certainly on the new atheists side on over Jordan, there are definitely places he's up on them, even when it's poorly articulated. Furthermore on the subject of climate change, the climate has always been changing. Question is to what degree, if any, humans affect it. On that subject: I've worked somewhat adjacent to that field and whispers were that many of the researchers working on it don't believe it, but know what side theirs is buttered on. It seems as corrupt as what Brett and Eric are on about here, and maybe even as much as Bogosian Pluckrose and (3rd name escaping me atm) were revealing about gender studies. I also notice that the politicians and activists who push the climate change narrative all propose what basically amounts to communism or fascism as the solution, and I mean actual fascism not the mere insult everyone throws around nowadays. Personally it seems obvious that the appropriate levels of skepticism towards the climate narrative is in short supply. And even if it were true, I'd take death from a world wide flood over being killed in a Gulag or Concentration Camp by the people who seem almost sexually aroused by the prospect of forcing their fellow human beings to eat bugs and massively reducing the global population. I'd probably even take it over living under their boot heels as they live like commissars while suppressing news of their brutalizing the likes of the yellow vests, which come about because of their idiotic (or more likely corrupt) policy "solutions" to the "problem."
How so did you stop taking your medications? I'm curious because that particular conversation where Bret explained that whole telomeres thing really messed me up. Ive contemplated stopping more questionable medications. Newer medications with less data surrounding their various positive and negative effects.
I have listened to this podcast a few times. At 30:00 I am in awe with how this is. The only time in my life I have had a talk this real was with my brother the week after our older brother took his life. This needs to be listened to.
OMG. This has got to go down as one of the best podcasts ever. Not only was it super interesting and super important and even for more than one reason super important, but it was funny as hell. The dry comments mostly out of Eric but also from Brett at certain points in the discussion caused me to have to pause and rewind a minute after I stopped laughing. . Also as a baby boomer I didn't think I could feel any more guilty for the way things are today and all the s*** that's going on. So thanks Eric, for that; I have to agree pretty much with everything he said. Perhaps we are the cancer that's growing due to too long telomeres.
I know this isn't what I should have taken from this, but the brother V brother verbal exchange hit so close to home-- I couldn't stop laughing. The quips, the backhanded comments the tone was so relatable.
Anyone else here after watching the new JRE?!?! If so, boy do I have a story for you that just shows how real this conspiracy is. *I just realized after reading through the comments, looking through Pubmed, and eventually doing a google search that CAROL GREIDER visited my campus at UC and gave a speech that was packed on the medical campus.* I attended a lunch with her and about 12 other graduate students after the speech. They all asked her questions about career paths, how to get the right post-doc position and other boring questions in my mind. I asked her a very detailed scientific question and *she was UNABLE to provide me with a good answer - SHE EVEN SAID THAT IN HER RESPONSE.* I will post roughly what the question is below for the science minded here. Recently, she has been publishing on using telomere length of blood lymphocytes as a proxy for what she terms biological age. This is very important because she is working with companies to offer measurements of this as a consumer product. We call that a conflict of interest which I am not entirely against. I just pay more attention when I see one. Back to the science - Shorter telomeres means longer biological age. However, blood lymphocytes have relatively short half lives, and new ones are creating in the bone marrow every day. There is a problem with this and you can find it in the studies. Changes to the bone marrow stem cells that become lymphocytes are persistent; however, changes to any circulating lymphocytes are short lived and do not persist as the lymphocytes usually dies relatively quickly unless an infection tells it ter persist. So taking a drug can decrease your lymphocyte telomere length and therefore your biological age 48 hours after taking the drug, but this effect will go away in a few weeks; however, if you take the drug every day for 10 years and it effects your bone marrow stem cells, that shortening of telomere length and therefore increase in biological age is persistent and repeatable in the individual even if they stop taking the drug for a while. So I simply asked her what is the best cell type or types to use for approximating biological age. She had no answer and I felt like I wasted time going to a lunch when I could have watched JRE or done experiments.
Austin Mcdermott, are you suggesting that she wasn't as learned as you thought or that she was reluctant to share information? Also here after watching JRE.
@@TheMastaRob Appreciate the support. Ya, I wanted to respond to the troll, but not worth it. In short, one of my favorite professors was a post-doc with Dr. Greider when she was also a post-doc. So she came to UC because a friend invited her to speak, but I am not going to mention the UC professors name because I still respect her.
@@silversuperscout309 Exactly, and it was obvious she did not want to dive into the science. Using the bone marrow derived stem cells themselves as an indicator for biological age would be better, but definitely not worth how much bone marrow biopsies suck. In short, I think you would have to use cells from each major organ - heart, liver, GI tract, nerve cells (from the nose maybe since they have the greatest ability to proliferate and replace). I really only came to the lunch to dive deep in the woods of this, but now I am glad I did not give any great ideas away and stopped pursuing her thoughts.
This was sooooo important for budding and burnt out scientists to see. This behavior is too common practice in research labs. Good for you Eric for pushing Bret to talk. No one ever talks about these stories of cheating, lying and down right abuse in science. Some talented scientists would have become jaded and exited the profession if this happened to them. Talking about these unethical practices opens dialogue up to change and hopefully toward collaboration.
Brett please take your rightful place at the top of your field, the world needs thinkers like you. Eric is justified on riding you as much as he has. Look if you don't want the recognition I get it, but isn't that a small price for you to pay to change the world for the better?
I had a terrible night's sleep after watching this. I was stuck in a loop, trying to face Bret's injustice over and over in my dreams for what seemed liked hours, from the standpoint of an observer and as both the brothers. I couldn't escape it. Even though I awoke many times throughout the night, once I went back to sleep, it continued again.
Eclipto14 She knew what she was doing. Bret had a groundbreaking earth shattering discovery and she decided to position herself as the discoverer instead. That’s insidious. I guess it really doesn’t matter who get the credit. However, the system that incentivizes people to take advantage of discoveries of knowledge from other people is inherently corrupt. That means that there are gatekeepers who will suppress certain ideas that are a threat to the cash flow of their controllers. That’s greed. That has to stop.
@@Eclipto14 The case oversells itself. Those in positions of power bear even more responsibility when abusing it. Ask a priest, they too were "in a position to take advantage". EXPLETIVE.
I love Eric's ruthless but protective big brother dynamic. I underestimated how brilliant Bret was exactly in the academic space and how many strange events have actually centered around him despite the various podcasts I've seen of him. This just goes to show that there are probably many other brilliant people who have been hammered down, ostracized, or ignored into obscurity. Such a waste of potential.
@@wloga It is common practice, that is the whole problem. It gets supercharged by distributing grants by committee. I left the field of research because any form of actual innovation was killed by self-censoring to get grant approval. We have come full circle to what scholarship under the church was.
You guys are awesome. I am very happy with the way the world of podcasting is turning out, and am glad to be able to witness this incredible conversation between two very brilliant brothers.
Bret's not only a "professor in exile".... He's a Nobel laureate in exile. I know you're seeing this Carol. I've seen your Twitter feed (@CWGreider). I'm certain Eric will be fair. Dare you to show up.
@@zachvaughan2323 - that´s not how I understood it from this podcast, but I´ll concede that the podcast is biased and only represents Bret´s "side of the story". Eric did say that he´d welcome contradicting perspectives to shed light on what actually transpired. That would be very interesting because the Weinstein account is very bleak. I sincerely hope that the rigor of academia is not so corrupt.
I will be very honest and say that I would not be able to stop myself from blowing a gasket. Bret doesn't seem to have an ego (which is actually damaging). I find him to be too humble in his stance, considering this work would have severely altered his future, which is now his present
Perhaps Bret merely believes that his actions in life are only relevant if he is alive and since one day he will die this is all just a game. What difference does it make that your theories or discoveries are suppressed if you believe that your death is the final moment in which you will have any concern about the world or your life. Of course we can ride this cardboard box all the way to the bottom of the mountain together but for now i am done.
@@mirxael He'd have to be remarkably narcissistic to believe his discovery + its suppression are only relevant while he's alive. That does not appear to be the case.
Simply phenomenal, Eric! Thank you for dragging Bret out into the light, so all of us could understand why he was so damn smart, but didn't have 'credentials' to back it up. So many conversations I listened to with him, in the last three years makes so much sense now.
Former grad student with a 4.0 that left my stem field and went into banking because (with a lot of introspection years later) no one was interested in doing anything with me. I do take my own responsibility for this, but the system is absolutely driving people out of stem fields. As proof? I still read studies to this day, in my spare time, I haven't lost any love of science.
They both are. What’s scary is, Eric is even smarter than Bret. If you watch (or have watched) their stream a few days ago, you can see Bret getting extremely lost in Eric’s concepts, and also Eric being a bit tragically frustrated at people being stupid.
Has Carol addressed this since this has come out? It would seem to me that she should have a response to this, and that we deserve to hear it.
Bump this comment people
There you go. Bump! Bump! Bump!
@@God4445 Doing my part. Bump
Yes, I would like to know as well. I know Jax labs said they couldn't answer their questions about breeding protocols because no one there was working there in 1997-ish and they didn't have any records. Or some bullshit like that.
Keep liking this comment bois, someone has to know
Me at the beginning : "Damn Eric chill the f* out dude..."
Me at the end : "ok i get it"
Exactly
ha ha! my exaaaaact thought!
I went from grumbling about how he didn't know what he was talking about to cheering everything he said.
Yes! I thought Eric was being melodramatic. Far from it. Bret could have a Nobel Prize to his name. This isn’t just a story of a kid who could’ve succeeded but says “oh well” and chooses to teach at the eccentric college. Bret was genuinely on the path to alter the world with his research. Now he’s condescended to by Dawkins as if Bret is an amateur outsider. I had no idea what a big deal Bret was in the research world. Fascinating turn of events!
@islanti It's not that science is dead, it's that the academic institution has been corrupted and isn't working as it should, and as a result, a cascade of failures follows downstream.
Science is a method, and it is immortal, thankfully. As soon as we get back to doing it, and focusing on it, we will find that it has not atrophied one bit, only our use of it.
If that wasn't true, we'd be well and truly fucked.
Just to support Eric's suggestion: Yes, do a series with Bret! Make this a regular part of our lives! We - the people - like it!
I know the Weinsteins are likely too smart for this, but man I wish men/people like THIS would run for political office or at least be on some damn committees!
Such talent!
Yes absolutely!
i second this. watching regular discussions between these two would give insight into fascinating ideas AND an example of how to dialogue with others. ( family included)
I would not only subscribe, I would click the notification bell too!
Agreed!
The greatest gift of all is a brother who believes you are more than you think you are. It’s the most touching thing I’ve ever seen.
His brother was impeccable as a student and studied with some of the leading biologists in the field and Bret Weinstein isn’t been recognised for this which angers his brother Eric Weinstein because Eric views Brett as a man who is on the same level as any of the leading biologists out there but people don’t look at Brett like that because he choose to teach at an unknown university rather than a top Ivy League institution like Harvard or Princeton which would automatically guarantee his fame, prestige and the fact that he would be taken seriously by everyone including the leading biologists out there. Bret Weinstein is just looked upon as an ordinary teacher or professor when he’s a high level mind whose potential is been wasted on a low level institution that holds back his talent rather than enhance it
I totally agree! I'm sending this to my 2 brothers who haven't spoken in years and showing them that love can be communicated differently between them but it's still love.
BTW.... another interesting layer to their discussion is the blatant snobbery that exists in academia. Just because Bret wasn't working at an Ivy League institution automatically diminishes his theories?! That sickens me, because shouldn't academics be the very people who welcome thought from OUTSIDERS!?
I once thought my brother was either Moloch or God, that was a crazy day.
"You moron, no offense." 🤣
Once Bret starts telling his actual story, this very quickly becomes a holy shit moment. This is a fascinating story in both the drama of what happened to Bret, and in the biological and medical discovery.
My theory as a psychotherapist is that highly empathic folks tend to get infected by those without empathy; the Bretts wind up losing their authority to tyrants they are wired to understand rather than subdue.
time stamp?
Maybe ... the release from Evergreen has allowed this public conversation?
I personally think a great researcher like Bret should be at a medical facility, like Mayo Clinic, so he could advance human care.
@@benisrood maybe the empathetic are also targeting the sociopaths.
@@notmyrealpseudonym6702 I can confirm this is true.
The second half of this talk completely exemplifies precisely what Eric was trying to get across in the first half: that Bret is clearly an unrecognized genius, with the unrecognition due almost entirely to the fact that he cares little about being recognized. You can tell this has pissed Eric off for years. Tough love at its finest.
You can just see him pulling it out of him the whole first half. Hacking at the walls of humility.
@Sudhir Kakar Did you not watch the entire video?
I thought it was made painfully clear...
For similar reasons, the best possible public servants are seldom nominated, much less elected.
according to Bret and Eric, Bret is an unrecognized genius
I like both of them, and I don't have any reason to doubt them, but given Eric's propensity to spin things, I don't have a great reason to believe Bret's work is all it's trumped up to be either
I mean, I'd love to read Bret's book and go, "damn this guy _is_ a genius", but in the meantime let's not fanboy over everyone who talks nice on the internet
Chris C please have a little faith in people and lay off the 'fanboy' name calling. Bret did not call himself a genius. If you have no more evidence against him, let's get back to presuming innocence until proven guilty. Even the creator of the first IQ test did not claim it determined who is genius. When asked what it measured, he said only how well they could do on his test.
Urging caution or skepticism in a less critical tone would give us less reason to doubt your intelligence.
The comments: "BEST PODCAST EVER HOLY SHIT"
Carol Greider: " I have no record of this podcast in my history tab."
General-GeeZuSe did you listen to the conversation? She denied him credit in her paper by saying “I’ve been through my emails...”
Grieder should be ashamed of herself, but i bet she doesnt lose any sleep over it at all. Id say she deserves to be exposed, but before whom? Sounds like theyre all in on it...
General-GeeZuSe i mean it’s the climax of the whole damn story
Carol wanted to acknowledged Bret but she knew he'd understand the importance women representation. Truth be damned when serving the greater good of "diversity".
@@Mistersamweller "THE GREA'ER GOOD"
I have often found Eric to be overbearing, but here, ironically, in his most apparently overbearing performance, it has become evident he is motivated by immense love. Clearly I have not listened carefully enough. Eric sacrifices his own likability for the benefit of his counterparties and the audience generally. I have misjudged this man. His world class intellect is matched by the heart of a lion.
Quite a complex being.
Spot on. Immense mind and heart to match.
Nailed it- they are both BRILLIANT
The way Eric typically does online talks, looking down at the camera is probably a big reason for your initial dislike. I find both of these men very interesting
@@abahgus he’s not at all complex. He’s honest and decent and we get frightened by sheer integrity and we think it complex. We are not used to pure decency.
This story was incredible. Everybody who has a brother appreciated the authentic interaction as well haha.
Logos of Logic with Tyler Goldstein it’s so true!!! I do this with my little brother!!! He is too freakin nice. Sometimes I just want to ko him for being tossed around!
“You’re boring me bro...”
This was amazing!!
I started to regret, that I don't have a brother...
Also anyone who loves brave & amazing people standing up for what is right
i have a brother and i didnt
Bret: "I thin..."
Eric: "you dont get it"
Sherlock and Mycroft
Sherlock and Mycroft
lol, this whole fucking podcast. I woulda been irritated if I didn't know them both and respect them both first. Was kinda funny though because of it.
Nick MaGrick the way I see it, Eric was thinking “okay, this ridiculous and SOMEONE is going to be aggressive about it. If it’s not Bret then it’s me.” It’s like Eric is giving Bret a way to tell this story without coming off as vengeful
@@BFrydell yeah, its all out of concern for his brother. People can both be genuine and come off as a bit of an ass. Hes showing the frustrations that Bret is keeping in check.
This is how extremely high IQ brothers fight.
It is a brotherly therapy session pimped out for TH-cam ad revenue.
😛
If they were truly high I.Q then they wouldn't need words to conversate
"You're boring! Let's talk about how you were cheated out of a nobel prize."
Hahaha ! Awesome
This is how gigantic egos speak to each other.
This is like listening to music. It’s so clean, sober and straightforward. I love the way Eric loves Bret enough to get angry at him for hiding his genius. That may or may not be what Bret was doing, but the fact that Eric saw it that way and fought for him was genuine, brotherly love.
Well said.
I've never respected Bret more than I do after this episode. I've watched him on Joe Rogan's podcast and was amazed at what he stood up to at ESU but my god, I had no idea just how incredibly brilliant this guy is. Thank you Eric for pushing him, for confronting him. He's a beautiful spirt with a huge heart but wow....what a mind. THIS is what I was hoping for from this podcast. BRAVO!!
His own podcast is quite interesting to listen too
I think it took a loving brother to push Bret so far and so hard. So much so, that Bret had to ask whether this was still the podcast or not! Absolutely fascinating discussion
Eric is right. This is way more interesting than the Bret “heroic victim of identity politics gone wrong” Weinstein story.
kinda like jordan peterson has a lot of other things to say
i agree
@@AXharoth can't tell if condescending or not lol.
Yes. I have suffered similar Personality issues. Self-doubt. Not standing up for myself. Social insecurity. I think I got better but I probably still have a deficit or tendency in that area, that is less obvious to me but probably still operating.
I agree but they are both stories that need more exposure.
Big brother: Someone talked shit let's go fight them
Little brother: Gee I don't know
It might be dressed in fancy academia this time around, but this is a tale older than history itself.
Played, Swaggins.
That's a lame over-simplification of what was discussed in this podcast. Brothers or not, the story deserved to come out.
@@Byenia na it was a great comment made in jest, your comment is lame.
The media also tapped out because although I love him eric Weinstein rejects offers to go on fox news because hes scared that the bolsheviks will call him "fox news contributor". You should ignore the labels, and talk to anyone that is open to discussion. You and your brother kick ass.
@@jimduggan8382 Got em
If it were not for what had happened at Evergreen, I would have never heard of Bret nor Eric.
Ikr? Isn't it 'wonderful?'
Free public relations
@@cmhockey6586 well..... he did lose his job so it wasn't exactly just a gift
Truth
Same here. Bret and Eric are great minds, it’s just so unfortunate are that the demons behind the Evergreen incident are only getting worse . Seems like very few listened to Bret
"This isn't your podcast, this is my podcast" & you're boring me. Mad props to Eric for not editing this.
What's interesting is you can only say these things to a dear friend and or as in this case a brother.
I love Eric because he doesn't give a fuck. He knows he's at a place in his life where he can spout off about anyone and anything because he's secure in all aspects of life. His brother loves him, he's financially secure, and he has what he needs.
Then at 52:00 he lets his podcast becomes his brother's podcast.
Eric Weinsten: "I love you like you were my own brother"
Bret Weinstein: "amazing"
😂
I had to look up this "Marcia, Marcia, Marcia problem"... Yep, Bret's right. Hopefully, Eric can try not to suffocate his little brother's actions.
Two men can want fundamentally different things, even if they once shared common goals.
After finishing, gruff, but utilitarian. Thanks to both of you!
th-cam.com/video/ICVXf8Vznec/w-d-xo.html
@@asterion1729 58
It's less amazing we can't all talk this way, you moron, no disrespect and I love you...
MTV | Politics | Pied Piper | Battle for hearts & minds th-cam.com/video/a71IvRm9Uiw/w-d-xo.html ?asaa
😂😂😂😂
I can see why he would be a teacher. His explanation of telomeres was so clean and smooth that even a hick like me was able to follow it. I feel smarter just from having watched this. Thank you very much!
Christopher Hampton: You hit it on the head! The best Teachers are the masters. We don’t have that anymore. How can we call someone a teacher, when they don’t master the subject they are trying to teach another. What?! It’s a catastrophe! Today the majority of teachers, teaching in schools, would fail in a debate on the subject they get paid to teach our youth to learn. What?! What a mess! Today’s teachers are not yesteryears teacher! These people are not ‘teachers’, it’s an insult to the profession! On the other hand, a scholar, a polymath, now those would do the world good by teaching our youth, and they would earn the Higher wages they deserve! Today’s ‘teachers’, aren’t teachers. What a catastrophe this is!
@@snafuagain5268 teachers need to earn more money and there needs to be some incentive to get the old, knowledgable people to retire earlier from their jobs, at which point those retirees would go teach for 5-10 years or whatever. we're losing a lot of knowledge with this shitty system. as it is now you have adult daycare workers reading shit out of a book
Christopher number 11 1 410568000
Seriously.
I just made a comment that’s almost the exact same sentiment as yours. I was able to follow very easily, even with my limited scientific knowledge. And I was engaged the whole way through. This was way more exciting than I expected from the introductory monologue.
I never could have guessed that one of the most interesting stories I would ever hear would begin “The theory of antagonistic pleiotropy was well established, but...”
I'm an immunologist who did his PhD on mouse models. This podcast is one of the best I've ever heard. Bret's insights into telomeres have implications so wide it's insane. It is science and prescience at its best!
Is this story well known by people in your area of research?
@@adam1780 Kind of. Telomeres are well known to effect cancer/ageing. Looking more broadly, about 30% of discoveries in mice do not translate into humans as there are so many differences between mice and humans (not just telomere length) 😊 Unfortunately, a lot of people don't appreciate these differences in relevant fields.
The paper if you're interested: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC113886/#__ffn_sectitle
The man should be at the top table, someone else got a Nobel prize from the result of his work
The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine 2009 was awarded jointly to Elizabeth H. Blackburn, Carol W. Greider and Jack W. Szostak "for the discovery of how chromosomes are protected by telomeres and the enzyme telomerase." Which was their own work. The fact that Carol Greider refused to cite Bret's intellectual contribution to her subsequent paper related to mouse telomeres is as best, egregious and at worst, just sleazy as hell. I lean toward the latter, seeing how she became hostile toward him and tried to prevent his paper being published. Of course, since she's now got a Nobel, she politically has a coat of teflon against criticism. But sleazy is as sleazy does.
This is everything my TH-cam life ever needed
best podcast I've ever seen.
Same!
Here here.
You can tell Eric is really pissed off about what happened to his bro
You can tell by the footwear what's going on
Well his Brother was a bit naive.I thought he got his paper eventually published would be good if there was a link to it and a transcription of the Nobel laureates speech. So we can judge for ourselves.
I am, too. We probably all should be.
Yeah, just check out what happens with Eric's back pillow at around the time when he's trying to talk Bret into being angry about the whole situation.
@@heavyequipment1930 The running shoe/ hiking boot mashup! And the ankle skin. Classic academia.
This is Unbelievable! I so hope this story becomes widespread knowledge!! The deviousness of that Carol and anyone who knew what she was up to and kept silent, or worse, became a part of it is unthinkable!
You're both so brilliant, I wish you all the success you're so deserving of!!
4 years later…… Carol….. calling Carol……….
"I'm gonna put the hurt on you for not taking your role in history". That's some real shit right there.
Existential confrontation, right there. Hard to argue with your older brother, who knows you and what you're capable of.
cam fox it’s a bit grandiose. Still kinda true though.
Lol! Read the comment the same exact moment he said that! What a coincidence. 30:05
As the oldest of 3 brothers it struck a chord with me. I like to believe we all have a part in the meat play
Eric "The Rock" Weinstein
The awkwardly contentious opening only makes sense when you get to the end, and that tension strengthened the impact of this story in such an unexpected way. This is the greatest podcast episode I have ever heard.
This is what being a good big brother looks like
@Brad die Irriterend III
It's not malicious patronizing, it is actually pretty light hearted. They do know each other....very well.
@Brad die Irriterend III did you finish it? What do you think?
@Brad die Irriterend III It's love on a complicated level, finish it.. best podcast I ever watched.
holy shit i love how they respect each other when coming to an impass
I honestly wished Eric would have put Bret in a headlock and told him just to spit it out, would have taken a hell of lot less time to get him to talk.
Wow this is literally the first time I've been given license to think critically about the peer review requirement. It's made to sound like standard quality control, but it's the perfect way to maintain the bull shit status quo.
Especially social science are aff/infected by the negative impact of peer review. It functions as a censor/filter with the intent to shape a world according to the zeitgeist of these institutions. At least this is what it felt to me, when studying social sciences.
Any measure of quality control can be used to enforce some person or group's self-interested. However, quality control is an important thing. The solution is two-fold: 1) quality control needs to be extremely transparent and 2) a large enough community must exist to self-police such a critical mass is met to thwart conspiracies (because conspiracies involving large numbers of people are doomed to fail)
Indeed, I've never in my life had my eyes opened so wide about such an important topic. There is nothing in the title and description of this podcast episode that even remotely hints at what a shockingly earth-shattering story is going to be told.
Peer review is central to the scientific process for very good reason, regardless of the persecution complex of the Weinsteins. It really is about quality control, and as a scientist I welcome peer review on my own papers just as much as I appreciate the effect it has on the quality of the other work I study and rely on. All of my papers have been improved thanks to thoughtful comments from peer reviewers, and as a reviewer I've been able to help make at least minor improvements to even the best papers I've reviewed. There are occasional reviewers who inject too much of their own ego or prejudices into their reviews or who are simply knuckleheads, but they can be politely dismissed by appealing to competent editors. What the Weinsteins don't tell you is how many of the papers that arrive at journals are profoundly bad, being the products of overworked grad students poorly trained by overworked professors, and demonstrating all kinds of sloppiness (such as lousy grammar, inconsistent terminology, incoherent ordering of ideas) and serious mistakes (such as misapplication or misinterpretation of statistical tests, various other math errors, conclusions not remotely substantiated by the data). Peer review filters out most of this bad work or forces the authors to fix it. The process as a whole is enormously beneficial to science. Without it, nobody would be able to get anything done because we'd have to spend all our time scrutinizing every paper we cite (and every paper they cite, and so on) for the kinds of dumb mistakes that fortunately get caught in peer review most of the time. The nearly non-existent role of peer review in the suppression of disruptive ideas is vastly exaggerated by would-be disruptors with delusions of grandeur, who can't convince informed colleagues that their ideas are valuable and instead run to the general public to complain about it. The truth is that we have so many journals eager for content that any scientist with a good idea, expressed well, can get it published in some legitimate journal or another. The only people being suppressed are those whose life circumstances make it too challenging to produce work of publishable quality in the first place (too little time, access to education, etc).
@@JasonTroutnut Perhaps it is specific issue of "abuse of peer review" that deserves scrutiny.
This may be one of the most important podcast in the world right now. What a gripping story.
!!!
the part about pharmas influence in colleges and the fact that hiding new technology is a routine thing, yeah that part is.
Incredible.
Gripping yes, but unfortunately not as groundbreaking as you hope if I may explain my position on why I think it’s just sad. The part I think you’re referring to about the short and long cells that mutate that could be a reason for cancer or never dying, if I’m not mistaken has been addressed since when Carol stole his hypothesis and received the Nobel prize. The other big story covered up was the, ( not at all implicated by Eric or Brett but it’s my accusation it was likely done on purpose as to not have deviation in their mice therefore reliable test results and drugs passed and a lot of money made) fact their mice couldn’t be scientifically sound if they were all the same and coming from the same place. Carol probably was an unwitting participant in these shenanigans until she realizes how that story alone could ruin her and her newest discovery she planned to steal from Brett. The problem about the mice was fixed I thought he said because sweeping it under the rug was easier than the whole can of worms it dug up exposing it. That being said, once the hypothesis is out there it’s out there and now the world knows and hopefully they’re doing w it what must be done...... Unless, it was done intentionally to begin with. In the Bible why did people live so many hundred years and now we don’t? Is it because there’s more money to be made in death w Big Pharma? Likely...... but can we do anything about it? No. It’s soo much bigger than we are and happens on so many more levels than you can imagine and your head w almost explode after you start to really understand this more. It’s still hard to wrap my head around because it’s a devastating fact to swallow and as such must be taken in small bites imo. I hope and pray I’m wrong and this like you say turns out to be the most important podcast in the world, but maybe I’m too jaded to have that optimism anymore because I truly think this is as far as it goes. Without the media behind you fully nothing reaches the masses and I don’t believe the same reluctant media w change their position and now back him and go against Carol, not in a 100 yrs.
@@user-qp3pu5yv1e not only are you extremely apathetic, but understanding whats going on doesn't make the conversation they are having here any less important.
Its still easily one of the most important podcasts in the world and I don't think thats an overstatement.
Thinking nothing can be done about it is just ... I feel like coming from you since you clearly understand most of whats going on, is just plain lazy. Or a serious lack of imagination. As an individual its hard to do anything about it, collectively as a group though we have so much power, and our individual actions do make significant impact. They depend on a good image and that people keep buying their stuff, big pharma or any corporation's really, biggest vulnerability in terms of its stability are the people it relies on. Besides things only got this bad in the first place from individuals taking action to do something they shouldn't have as individuals. From lobbyists, to hiding information, to making poor moral choices for career or profit.
To say nothing can be done about it is asinine.
As an example, ive put ideas out into the world, just talking about what seemed like nonsense to random people. 10-20 years later I see my same ideas propagating but being championed by different people. I had ideas about how cancer was curable, 3d printers like from star trek were possible, and that the world would be understood to be made up of geometry and nothing else. Some of my ideas didn't start completely with me but I think some did. I just keep talking about the stuff and the idea sits in peoples subconscious and gets passed around, much in the same way that advertisements use memes and manipulate people into passing around their mantras and narratives.
Worst comes to worst we can always start a revolution, but hopefully things don't become that dire. But something can always be done and we always have a choice, even if its never clear what we should be doing.
This is the single best podcast I have ever beheld.
This episode specifically or this podcast generally?
IMO this specific episode. It's stunning in terms of its content, and beautifully narrated from both sides.
Unbelievable indeed! Just the pharmaceutical implications alone blew my mind.
Who would have thought the events at evergreen were such small potatoes compared to the intellectual savaging perpetrated upon bret!
The Portal is probably the greatest podcast. Only because there is no host in Eric's league intellectually. The meme of Thee Portal itself being potent and his guests being curated with an artistic genius. It is so refreshing to listen to these conversations.
@@guynxtdork This, without a doubt. Best podcast episode I ever watched
The first 60 minutes is basically an older brother kicking his younger brother's arse for not standing up for himself! Great stuff
John Hopkins Number 11 1 410568000
@Holy Hand Grenades If you watch Bret's recent Darkhorse videos you can see his realization that the mob cannot be sated with reason. He's had to start adopting Eric's tactic because only that type of strategy will beat the similar strategy of the post-modernists (the only answer is to say "no" and do it fiercely, there is no other option against ideologically possessed people who don't even understand their own stance).
MechShark - he's always been a good person, but good people can have blind spots. The problem is we are too close to ourselves to see everything.
Bret’s approach to changing minds is more like my own, at least at the personality and social level (because I’m nowhere near as useful or productive of a person as he is). I think Eric is saying that Bret needs to actively pursue positions of respect so that he will have the power to direct the thoughts and conversations of the field more quickly in a beneficial direction. Bret, meanwhile, at least in his mind, is playing a totally different game of trying to change the minds of the existing respect-holders as opportunities to do so arise without seeking those positions himself. Perhaps he feels or worries that seeking those positions will be seen as selfish or egoistic and will undermine public perception of his work. Or maybe he just finds that the process to get there or to perform that role too personally distasteful, uncomfortable, or stressful and is just a mismatch for the way his mind works. The real questions are, which tactic is more effective more quickly, and which is best suited to Bret’s mind, personality, and personal life goals? If Bret can in fact accomplish more from a more-respected position, and there is a way to do so that fits with Bret’s mind and life, then Eric is right, and Bret just needs to somehow get there. If any of that is not true, perhaps Bret is already on the right track or doing his best. Bret seems to feel that he is on the right track already but is having a hard time fully explaining himself to Eric - he hasn’t been keeping a tally of all his perceived accomplishments and progress toward his goals and has no way to pull all that out on-the-spot even if he feels their existence in the back of his mind. Eric is having trouble fully explaining how exactly his vision for Bret would work and why Bret would be able to accomplish more if he fulfilled that vision. Either strategy is probably better-suited to certain cases. ....Maybe we just need both types of minds working together as a team!
@@MechShark you can also see those changes in Brett's recent appearance on jre.
You had me on board already, but when you said peer review is a cancer, you sealed my support forever, for whatever that may be worth.
And now I understand why you push your brother so hard on not selling himself short.
This is the classic moment - where the older sibling says “you’re better than this” - and the younger sibling says “but I’m fine, we’re just different”
😂😊
Nailed it!
they are not geniuses, just normal people. it's the context that makes them look like geniuses. try do the same thing you do and you will be there. if you have the money at least.
Aron Gabor
So try it yourself, & see how smart you look. It doesn’t take much money to start a humble podcast.
No one’s saying that they’re “Geniuses”, but I damn well bet that they’re smarter, & think more ‘outside of the box,’ especially scientifically, than your average person; including you.
for me and my younger sister, this is the reverse. But otherwise the same.
Bret's Research: "You either die a Human, or you live long enough to see yourself become a Tumor"
Oh no, you mean those predictions that people will be able to live 1000 years and that these people have already been born, are wrong?!? I can't believe it.
sounds a lot like the jokers, "You either die a hero or live long enough to become a villain".
@@isaiakrozell2409 That's exactly the point.
@@isaiakrozell2409 It wasn't the joker who sayed that ,Harvey did
Unless you can learn to breath better throughout your life, and eat and fast better, and get better blood flow, in part, through progressive physical movement practices. Then tumors may be staved off indefinitely.. till you die from something.
His story would make a fantastic movie
Yes!
@ yeah, I'm betting Hollywood would burn him at the stake if he brought them an accurate script.
^
Yes! Oh, wait does your idea have to pass peer review to get to movie script?
@@CoastalJames yes, I believe it has to get past those locked within "ideological thought prisons" first.
You deserve a Nobel prize and a movie deal. This story was captivating.
A Nobel prize pahahahahahahaha
This should be a book!! What an exciting and interesting story!
In terms of "Holy shit, what happens next?!", this is the best episode yet!
This discovery is a book, a film, and a snapshot into brilliance.
I remember being this entertained while watching the dramatization of cracking the Enigma Code.
Here's to hoping someone as capable as Benedict Cumberbatch plays Eric in the film adaptation of this story.
Get this to Joe quick, This needs to reach millions of people not thousands.
came from joe's...
Fucked up but true. Bret needs to get back on the podcast
he came into joes pod cast in a panic and fucked a major chance at exposing the truth :P
No
@@ethanwasme4307 Wrong go watch it again!
Having learned, in this podcast, of the exchange between Bret and Richard Dawkins, I watched that discussion. I have never seen Dawkins look more challenged and vulnerable than in that discussion. Bret, you belong at this table and are becoming my new hero of evolutionary biology. Can't wait to dig into your work as I did with Dawkins"Selfish gene" 25 years ago. Again, thanks Eric for giving Bret the chance to shine amongst the "evolutionary literati".
BodyDoc
Where did you find it?
Fascinating, I'll go check it out. I've come to really dislike Dawkins in recent years
@@jacobbailey5498 Dawkins work advanced Darwins insight, so for this I will always revere him. But his current dismissal of others, outside the academic ivory tower, has begun to crack the facade a little for me. Thanks for commenting Jacob. He is also militantly atheist and for this bravery I also laud him.
Where can I find an unedited version of that?
@@TheJeremyKentBGross th-cam.com/video/hYzU-DoEV6k/w-d-xo.html
Who else came here after watching Joe Rogan with Bret?
I came here after listening to Joe Rogan with Eric.
Sammmme
Add me to this list. Not only do I find the mice topic fascinating, I'm pretty on-board with his #unity2020 plan to bring the put an end to the 2 part system. Go check it out
Unreal that this shit has been buried. Glad I found it.
animal0mother same, I just rewatched Eric’s first appearance on JRE and decided it was finally time to enter The Portal
From webMD: "The arthritis drug Vioxx may have caused up to 140,000 cases of serious heart disease, including many deaths"
Thanks, Carol Greider.
Njerve1 wow
That means her intentional selfishness caused masses of strangers to endure torturous condition and death. What a shame to eternally wear on one's name.
Another one to add to the "muther fuckin' Carol" list of 2020
Bro why isn’t this on the headlines.
Good point
Can anybody here even imagine what it would look like to see Bret pissed off or mad? Brets ability to keep a cool head and find a better way to respond is impressive. Great podcast! I was expecting a completely different conversation, and I'm happy to have been wrong with my expectation. This was far more interesting.
I have a feeling that an angry Bret will be inspiring.
Internet Gorilla that’s what Eric wants us to see.
yeah, and I can imagine its not pleasant. He seems like the type to stay cool but when he goes off, he really goes off. Just guessing.
You can tell they're brothers by how Eric talks to him and calls him boring hahahaha
And a moron ))
I'm just a simple man with almost zero education... this just blew my mind. Fascinating and terrifying at the same time. The portal is the best podcast ive found. Preference falsification, distributed idea suppression complex . Cant wait to watch the next episode . Thanks!
As a phd student, this made me feel physically sick.
Like a little boy who was in line to visit the Pope, and then hears what goes in in his chambers?
Burni O why is that?
@@ryanstick2194 Getting your life's work practically stolen isn't fun.
Probably because this entire podcast elucidates that the higher ed and peer review system is gate-kept specifically to stop knowledge production.
I'm not a phd student, and I feel sick. This is disgusting.
This was the most interesting, profound and weighty thing I've ever seen on TH-cam. Thank you Eric for getting your little bro to do it. It's obvious you love him very much.
This should be a movie. It's the only way to open eyes that are scientifically shut.
Or a documentary. Great that Eric pushed this.
This would be to the medical research industry what _Silkwood_ was to the nucear industry.
I must go now, there is a village which needs my help. ::saddles up, disengages safety::
yeah, and whose gunna fund that movie? And if it gets even close to production, what about the same group of people that prevented his work from becoming known in the first place? Do you think this corruptions really contained to just that college?
It would have to have actual, as opposed to potential, dead people to get green lit. Lots of dead people.
I'm here because of Bret's appearance on Joe Rogan's podcast talking about the elongation if mice teelameers (probably spelt that wrong) and the pharmaceutical industries drug tests and the danger humans because of a fatal flaw in the mice genetic structure... Really had to know more of the story because looking at my medicine cabinet makes me wonder if we're all playing a game of Russian Roulette with pill bottles
This is the best ep of the portal. It’s not awkward. It’s honest. This is the quintessential podcast archetype that defines the whole reason why people listen to podcasts.
I must say Eric’s ability to navigate biology, economics, physics, mathematics, and music is savant like. He is the definition of general intelligence
I bet he doesnt know anything about metalwork or how to swing a hammer.
@@tylermurch7891 oh i bet he does. tbh.
@@tylermurch7891 and yet I bet he'd learn faster than you.
@@tylermurch7891 Dude he looks like a blacksmith
It's called a polymath lol not general intelligence. That's just high IQ which everyone in these independent fields has
I’m SO glad to hear you Eric with Brett, who is a”hero “ of mine. I’ve had the honor of trading emails with him over the past 3 years. I would stand by his side anytime anywhere. Thanks
Andrew Rhodes because his name is spelled with 2 t’s
Andrew Rhodes your correct. It’s Bret in my emails
Best episode yet. The “insufferable” conversations are the ones that must be rescued from silence.
Who is in control?
I was deeply impressed with how Bret handled the entire Evergreen situation. We have similar tendencies at our Universities in Sweden, where I am from. Even in large parts of the western world from what I can see. In Sweden, we have legal cases where teachers and professors have been wrongfully sacked from their jobs because a small group of SJW's have come up with false accusations of racism on extremely loose grounds. A survey in Sweden shows that 2 out of 3 teachers are afraid of being reported for various reasons. This has resulted in a culture of silence where students and teachers don't dare to speak freely. This is not healthy for the debate. When we have "discussion seminars" in schools and universities, a large group of students sit completely silent because they do not dare to participate in the debate. The thought police are very strong in Sweden. Sometimes I can almost feel the "Stasi vibes" in the air. A little scary I have to admit and I don't like it.
Sweden has been on this path for a long time. Statist attitudes inevitably lead to conformity in thought and behavior--to defer all important decisions to the state is by definition to surrender individual decision-making.
So how long are you willing to tolerate this? Because they will tighten the noose more and more - resulting in less and less freedom of expression in any way. Nobody will come in from the outside to "liberate" you - you either resist or you will be crushed. (From a Citizen of an ex socialist country in Europe).
Absolutly.@@kbeetles
I listened to the audio of this a few weeks ago and I think it was one of the best podcasts I had heard in a long time. Happy the video is now available. One of the best things I've seen in a long time.
I looked more into this story and there were discussions on reddit about it from a month ago, so I was confused but your comment clears that up.
The most remarkable podcast I've ever seen.
If Alex Jones hear's this, he will start a rant, that's never stops! "All our mouse are broken "
All biologists have to wear hiking shoes in every scenario. That's how you know they're for real.
Same with geologists
😂 Yes, this is true on both accounts!
Deplorable Covfefe they don’t actually do that... right?
Lol :D
I was wondering what the deal was with that
My older brother PTSD is being triggered.
I just want to add as an addendum, having finished listening to the full podcast that A. I wish my own older brother had been so hard on me so as to elevate my better nature, but more importantly that B. as a member of Generation X, I regard this as a call to action against the self serving gatekeepers holding back a groundswell of potential in human advancement (looking at you, Mr. Dawkins). These two men are as brilliant as they are compassionate, & I so admire their affection for one another. God speed!
@@MarvelousOldWorld Dawkins is not holding back human advancement Bret probably got a lot of his education from Dawkins work.
Eric was annoying at times but I see what he was being so hardheaded and I think his interjections were necessary for people like me who have no formal education on this shit to be able to grasp some of the more “wordy” concepts they were conveying.
ahah : )
from a big brother, sorry bout that.
It sounds a lot like carol greider is Edison while Brett is Tesla
Exactly.
Or Carol Baskins
Not sounds like. Is.
I paused this and spent an hour listening to Dolly Parton.
She's a pure soul and a national treasure.
With a least interesting interesting bosom
Having lived a similar fiasco(with substantially lower stakes of course) during my Phd at Karolinska University, I think that the main problem is that there are no incentives to publish reproducible results. If I had any control at a funding agency I would give out grants to labs that disprove top tier publications.
That's a great idea
This is the way.
“Peer review is a cancer from outer space”. Lol. I love Eric Weinstein.
It's horrifying how institutions so many people trust completely can be plagued by these misaligned incentive structures. Great episode.
Unfortunately that trust implies an absent benevolence.
In alignment with the topic discussed, organisations have replication mechanisms (e.g. hiring / firing policies that ensure staff are hired somewhat in the likeness of their hirers) but they have no equivalent of a short telomere so they go on to replicate over generations without stopping. Over time they are likely to develop ‘cancerous’ behaviours that perpetuate the organisation but fall short of its original purpose. I’m interested in what would happen if public organisations were automatically disbanded after (say) 20 years (roughly a generation), the management let go and a brand new organisation is formed - not unlike a forest fire. There would be some initial inefficiencies for sure but in the long term would breathe new life into the institution
This is an incredible story. I want to hear more about Bret's work, please make this a regular thing. Also, the whole DISC thing seems to permeate into every institution. Institutions evolve to protect themselves.
Great point - I’ve often thought that organisations have replication mechanisms (e.g. hiring / firing policies that ensure staff are hired somewhat in the likeness of their hirers) but they have no equivalent of a short telomere, so they go on to replicate over generations without stopping. Over time they are likely to develop ‘cancerous’ behaviours that perpetuate the organisation and fall short of its original ideals and purpose. I’m interested in what would happen if public organisations were automatically disbanded after (say) 20 years (roughly a generation), the management let go and a brand new organisation is formed - not unlike a forest fire. There would be some initial inefficiencies for sure but in the long term would breathe new life into the institution
An Epic podcast!
0:00:00 - 0:27:00 jiber juber
0:27:00 Eric talk about DISC
0:37:00 Discussion begins
1:02:31 Death by immortality
1:29:29 🤯
1:51:12 🤯🤯
(Waiting for the movie ♥️)
Just finished watching this - really one of the best stories ever told. I am equally excited as I am terrified! Excited for Bret, as something has to come of this by way of recognition. Excited for Eric as this, for me, so far is the single most podcast of all so far shown that exemplifies exactly what I think you wanted the Portal to be. Terrified that 'our superiors' really don't seem to have our best interests at heart! I'm a 45 year old stay at home mum, I don't have any scientific background to speak of whatsoever, yet you guys spoke with such simplicity and clarity that I could follow you even if I don't understand the technical stuff, but if it permeates the public concious and filters out to our children, things will have to change. This is huge. GO THE PORTAL! x
Joe Rogan : I hate joke thief’s !! Bert Weinstein : Hold my beer .
Steve Smith Bert “The Machine” Weinstein
A fucking under rated comment!
Looks like you're stealing Joe's spelling. Thieves*
You win the COVID-19 compromised version of the internet!
This is the highest level of a big brother little brother heart to heart.
I didn't have time to read all 4,800+ comments, but someone down the line suggested that this should get a movie deal. What a story! Bret and Eric's discussion gives us insight into how and why lay persons tend to regard "The Science" as set-in-stone and unchallengeable. Well done, gentlemen.
"What if the Hayflick Limit is a protection against dying from immortality at a cytological level, that if some cell gets a dream of immortality that it shouldn't have because let's say it's a somatic cell and it says, ok, let's keep dividing and dividing and dividing - nature knows how to do this - and that immortality, which sounds good at first, is actually called cancer. And so in computer science we would say you've introduced a recursion into a while-loop or a for-loop to make sure you don't have a resource leak, which is what a tumor is." ...holy shit... **head explodes**
If you'd like your head to keep exploding, marry this knowledge up with PKD's VALIS experience and his scary quote, "The Empire Never Ended." and then follow that up with some DMT or holotropic breathing while you reflect on the nature of 'Empire' and 'Ego'. 😉
@@JeffCaplan313 pkd what?
Only thing I followed there is that DMT is awesome which I already found out.
@@TheJeremyKentBGross Phillip K. Dick.
He's a dead scifi author who was fairly prolific. Inspired Blade Runner, The Matrix, and like 4 other movies you may or may not have seen. He was channeling Gnostic mythology at the time, and Gnosticism is all about having an *experience* of the divine.
@@JeffCaplan313 Oh i know him.. sorta. Read one of his books before.
recursion limit.
There's a lot of comments from Rogan fans saying this convo needs to happen on Joe’s show so those of us that aren’t geniuses can follow. But I’d argue that’s what makes Bret so unique. He can take super complex subjects & explain them in a way that “normies” can not only understand but get excited about.
His appearances on Rogan were amazing because Bret (and Heather) are amazing! But Eric spent half this podcast trying to beat that quality out of him, which is why it feels like Rogan is the missing factor. Don’t get me wrong-Eric has played a role in my new found interest into science & intellectual perspectives, but I gotta be in the right place to take it in. With authentic Bret it’s always easy & I know by the end of his videos-I’ll come out on the other side smarter than when I started AND I can repeat what I’ve learned from him cause it resonates. Erik blows my mind while he’s talking but I have no idea what he was saying after the video is over!
I am no Steven Hawking, but there’s a lot of people like me that are craving an intellectual conversation where they don’t feel talked down to. Bret’s style has been integral in my “waking up” process & I hope he never changes. Hearing his story (what happened & who he is) the way that he tells it, single handedly caused my red pill moment. And that matters…..because I’m positive I am not the only one who’s life has changed as a result.
You will have many redpill moments
Captain ramius I’ve definitely had a few since I left this comment a month ago!
Here's why, Melissa. Brett speaks as an intellectual speaking to a classroom of undergraduate students. Eric speaks as an intellectual sharing discourse with other academics. He's not dumbing down his speech for the audience. I have a Master's level education (Psychology) and I like Eric's podcasts, but I know that Brett reaches more people. Most Americans are barely Bachelor's level comprehension. Sad but true.
DIVISIONINCISION that makes sense. But even more reason for Bret to be Bret & Eric be Eric, right? YOU are gonna be an intellectual whether you listen to either of these guys podcasts. But there’s a shift happening right now & many people are now waking up and craving substance. Substance that they can understand. That’s why these 2 approaches are needed in these times. When I listen to Erik, I always learn something new....usually mind blowing. But I can’t tell anyone I know cause they’d be lost (sadly). But Bret gets me ecstatic & excited about evolutionary biology, always inspiring me to leave him & learn more about a subject.
Eric, I'm a big brother too, I understand your harshness towards Bret, it's all from a place of love. :) Great podcast.
The-Art-of-Guitar Wow. Thank you!
@the-art-of-guitar love your channel too!
Fancy seeing you around these parts
Someone needs to make Brets life into a movie. Gripped from start to finish!
th-cam.com/video/FH2WeWgcSMk/w-d-xo.html
It's almost hard to believe when Eric was in JRE he actually undersold the story, I thought it was just hyperbole, but oh my god, Bret deserves the credit he is owed.
They're both lying/too self obsessed to comprehend the truth
I watch Jordan Peterson, Joe Rogan, Bret Weinstein, Steven pinker, and so many others, and Eric is the most interesting of them all.
I would say Eric & Jordan have the most intellectual HP.
@Johnny Crustacean I'm not bashing you per se, Johnny... but you're a hack
@Johnny Crustacean I disagree.
If i were to restate my understanding of Petersons "God" in my own words, it would be:
A psychological projection of the asymptomatic target of human evolution representing the set of behaviors statistically most likely to get you to the top of the set of all possible competence hierarchies.
That seems like a pretty brilliant insight to me.
While there are things that I'm certainly on the new atheists side on over Jordan, there are definitely places he's up on them, even when it's poorly articulated.
Furthermore on the subject of climate change, the climate has always been changing. Question is to what degree, if any, humans affect it.
On that subject: I've worked somewhat adjacent to that field and whispers were that many of the researchers working on it don't believe it, but know what side theirs is buttered on. It seems as corrupt as what Brett and Eric are on about here, and maybe even as much as Bogosian Pluckrose and (3rd name escaping me atm) were revealing about gender studies.
I also notice that the politicians and activists who push the climate change narrative all propose what basically amounts to communism or fascism as the solution, and I mean actual fascism not the mere insult everyone throws around nowadays.
Personally it seems obvious that the appropriate levels of skepticism towards the climate narrative is in short supply. And even if it were true, I'd take death from a world wide flood over being killed in a Gulag or Concentration Camp by the people who seem almost sexually aroused by the prospect of forcing their fellow human beings to eat bugs and massively reducing the global population. I'd probably even take it over living under their boot heels as they live like commissars while suppressing news of their brutalizing the likes of the yellow vests, which come about because of their idiotic (or more likely corrupt) policy "solutions" to the "problem."
@Johnny Crustacean Perhaps not a hack "per se", but still... :-D
By a country mile
I wonder how many instances of this problem have happened in the last 50 years.
How many Bretts were missing an Eric in their corner?
I need to have 2 kids.
How about the last 5000 years? Lol.
More then would ever be admitted.
Look up craniofacial dystrophy / orthotropics. Bret even has an interview with one of the leaders in this movement Dr Mike Mew.
As a human with normal-length telomeres who takes medications, I'd like to humbly and sincerely thank Bret for saving my life.
How so did you stop taking your medications? I'm curious because that particular conversation where Bret explained that whole telomeres thing really messed me up. Ive contemplated stopping more questionable medications. Newer medications with less data surrounding their various positive and negative effects.
MTV | Politics | Pied Piper | Battle for hearts & minds th-cam.com/video/a71IvRm9Uiw/w-d-xo.html ?asaa
What condition do you have that has you on a drug?
What? Because he CO wrote a freaking research paper?!? Damn liar.
I have listened to this podcast a few times. At 30:00 I am in awe with how this is. The only time in my life I have had a talk this real was with my brother the week after our older brother took his life. This needs to be listened to.
I just have this feeling that this is the most important youtube video I have every watched. I look forward to watching this interview in the future.
OMG. This has got to go down as one of the best podcasts ever. Not only was it super interesting and super important and even for more than one reason super important, but it was funny as hell. The dry comments mostly out of Eric but also from Brett at certain points in the discussion caused me to have to pause and rewind a minute after I stopped laughing. .
Also as a baby boomer I didn't think I could feel any more guilty for the way things are today and all the s*** that's going on. So thanks Eric, for that; I have to agree pretty much with everything he said. Perhaps we are the cancer that's growing due to too long telomeres.
Don't put collective guilt on yourself. Only what you do or don't do.
Dont feel guilty. No one person is responsible, me and my millenial friends dont blame you or our parents directly, that would be ignorant
Eric so grateful for you using your portal to put this story out to the world. It is beyond important.
I know this isn't what I should have taken from this, but the brother V brother verbal exchange hit so close to home-- I couldn't stop laughing. The quips, the backhanded comments the tone was so relatable.
Anyone else here after watching the new JRE?!?! If so, boy do I have a story for you that just shows how real this conspiracy is.
*I just realized after reading through the comments, looking through Pubmed, and eventually doing a google search that CAROL GREIDER visited my campus at UC and gave a speech that was packed on the medical campus.*
I attended a lunch with her and about 12 other graduate students after the speech. They all asked her questions about career paths, how to get the right post-doc position and other boring questions in my mind. I asked her a very detailed scientific question and *she was UNABLE to provide me with a good answer - SHE EVEN SAID THAT IN HER RESPONSE.* I will post roughly what the question is below for the science minded here.
Recently, she has been publishing on using telomere length of blood lymphocytes as a proxy for what she terms biological age. This is very important because she is working with companies to offer measurements of this as a consumer product. We call that a conflict of interest which I am not entirely against. I just pay more attention when I see one. Back to the science - Shorter telomeres means longer biological age. However, blood lymphocytes have relatively short half lives, and new ones are creating in the bone marrow every day. There is a problem with this and you can find it in the studies. Changes to the bone marrow stem cells that become lymphocytes are persistent; however, changes to any circulating lymphocytes are short lived and do not persist as the lymphocytes usually dies relatively quickly unless an infection tells it ter persist. So taking a drug can decrease your lymphocyte telomere length and therefore your biological age 48 hours after taking the drug, but this effect will go away in a few weeks; however, if you take the drug every day for 10 years and it effects your bone marrow stem cells, that shortening of telomere length and therefore increase in biological age is persistent and repeatable in the individual even if they stop taking the drug for a while. So I simply asked her what is the best cell type or types to use for approximating biological age. She had no answer and I felt like I wasted time going to a lunch when I could have watched JRE or done experiments.
Ignore the troll. That is interesting. Too much fakery at the top I guess, killing giants so you can stand on their corpses.
Austin Mcdermott, are you suggesting that she wasn't as learned as you thought or that she was reluctant to share information? Also here after watching JRE.
@@TheMastaRob Appreciate the support. Ya, I wanted to respond to the troll, but not worth it. In short, one of my favorite professors was a post-doc with Dr. Greider when she was also a post-doc. So she came to UC because a friend invited her to speak, but I am not going to mention the UC professors name because I still respect her.
@@silversuperscout309 Exactly, and it was obvious she did not want to dive into the science. Using the bone marrow derived stem cells themselves as an indicator for biological age would be better, but definitely not worth how much bone marrow biopsies suck. In short, I think you would have to use cells from each major organ - heart, liver, GI tract, nerve cells (from the nose maybe since they have the greatest ability to proliferate and replace). I really only came to the lunch to dive deep in the woods of this, but now I am glad I did not give any great ideas away and stopped pursuing her thoughts.
watching from Italy ,cheers guys ,exactly after JRE seartched this one
This was sooooo important for budding and burnt out scientists to see. This behavior is too common practice in research labs. Good for you Eric for pushing Bret to talk. No one ever talks about these stories of cheating, lying and down right abuse in science. Some talented scientists would have become jaded and exited the profession if this happened to them. Talking about these unethical practices opens dialogue up to change and hopefully toward collaboration.
Stealing credit is rampant in academia. It's really sad how it works.
Brett please take your rightful place at the top of your field, the world needs thinkers like you. Eric is justified on riding you as much as he has. Look if you don't want the recognition I get it, but isn't that a small price for you to pay to change the world for the better?
I had a terrible night's sleep after watching this.
I was stuck in a loop, trying to face Bret's injustice over and over in my dreams for what seemed liked hours, from the standpoint of an observer and as both the brothers. I couldn't escape it. Even though I awoke many times throughout the night, once I went back to sleep, it continued again.
He was stupid to ask carol. Everyone knows they steal stuff.
Carol stole almost everything from Brett. This story needs to be spread.
She didn't steal everything. She was already in a position to take advantage of his insight. She wasn't a nobody. Don't oversell the case, here.
They are so politely pissed off
Eclipto14 She knew what she was doing. Bret had a groundbreaking earth shattering discovery and she decided to position herself as the discoverer instead. That’s insidious. I guess it really doesn’t matter who get the credit. However, the system that incentivizes people to take advantage of discoveries of knowledge from other people is inherently corrupt. That means that there are gatekeepers who will suppress certain ideas that are a threat to the cash flow of their controllers. That’s greed. That has to stop.
Ken Surrency - Hello welcome to the world of academia were feudalism still exist.
@@Eclipto14 The case oversells itself. Those in positions of power bear even more responsibility when abusing it. Ask a priest, they too were "in a position to take advantage". EXPLETIVE.
I love Eric's ruthless but protective big brother dynamic. I underestimated how brilliant Bret was exactly in the academic space and how many strange events have actually centered around him despite the various podcasts I've seen of him.
This just goes to show that there are probably many other brilliant people who have been hammered down, ostracized, or ignored into obscurity. Such a waste of potential.
I love Erics brutal honesty. He knows his brother is far more intelligent than he is credited for.
I think I speak for all of us when I suggest that we’d love to hear the stories of the other 2 PhDs.
YES!!!
Makes me sick to think there are sociopaths like Carol W. Greaser clogging the arteries of innovation. Disgusting...
Carol W. Greider
@@wloga
It is common practice, that is the whole problem. It gets supercharged by distributing grants by committee. I left the field of research because any form of actual innovation was killed by self-censoring to get grant approval. We have come full circle to what scholarship under the church was.
@Waerloga corrected
muh kuh Amen to Truth
Is this a real life battle between Sherlock Holmes and his older brother Mycroft?
Yes yes YESSSSSS!!!!
the level is so high it's unnerving. These are simply two geniuses communicating dire truths. What a gift it is
You guys are awesome. I am very happy with the way the world of podcasting is turning out, and am glad to be able to witness this incredible conversation between two very brilliant brothers.
Yes! Was not expecting this.
google the portal with eric and you'll find youtube is 3 podcasts behind.
Bret's not only a "professor in exile".... He's a Nobel laureate in exile. I know you're seeing this Carol. I've seen your Twitter feed (@CWGreider). I'm certain Eric will be fair. Dare you to show up.
I´m betting she won´t...
Greg Arnold I can’t believe they did him like that. He’s such a brilliant and great guy.
My understanding is she won a Nobel prize based on previous work, but chose to talk about Bretts theory with her time.
@@zachvaughan2323 - that´s not how I understood it from this podcast, but I´ll concede that the podcast is biased and only represents Bret´s "side of the story". Eric did say that he´d welcome contradicting perspectives to shed light on what actually transpired. That would be very interesting because the Weinstein account is very bleak. I sincerely hope that the rigor of academia is not so corrupt.
@@zachvaughan2323 That's what i heard too.
Brett is a humble giant, clearly a secure man in himself and his theories. People should take note, of his tone and demeanor and learn from it.
Here is some soy milk 🥛 for you
I will be very honest and say that I would not be able to stop myself from blowing a gasket. Bret doesn't seem to have an ego (which is actually damaging). I find him to be too humble in his stance, considering this work would have severely altered his future, which is now his present
Perhaps Bret merely believes that his actions in life are only relevant if he is alive and since one day he will die this is all just a game. What difference does it make that your theories or discoveries are suppressed if you believe that your death is the final moment in which you will have any concern about the world or your life. Of course we can ride this cardboard box all the way to the bottom of the mountain together but for now i am done.
It's hard to stay humble after you have achieved a Master's level education. Even worse once you have a Doctorate.
@@mirxael He'd have to be remarkably narcissistic to believe his discovery + its suppression are only relevant while he's alive. That does not appear to be the case.
Simply phenomenal, Eric!
Thank you for dragging Bret out into the light, so all of us could understand why he was so damn smart, but didn't have 'credentials' to back it up. So many conversations I listened to with him, in the last three years makes so much sense now.
in summary:
Eric: let’s go fight someone
Bret: bro chill
Hahahaha!
Yup!
Thank you for the laugh.
in a nutshell
@islanti global warming is real you unbelievable dunce
Need more Weinstein brothers conversations in my life.
Former grad student with a 4.0 that left my stem field and went into banking because (with a lot of introspection years later) no one was interested in doing anything with me. I do take my own responsibility for this, but the system is absolutely driving people out of stem fields. As proof? I still read studies to this day, in my spare time, I haven't lost any love of science.
I am creating a journal for people like you to still contribute your work www.landlogique.com
I never knew that Bret was a super genius. Hope you’re both able to get his work the recognition it deserves.
They both are. What’s scary is, Eric is even smarter than Bret. If you watch (or have watched) their stream a few days ago, you can see Bret getting extremely lost in Eric’s concepts, and also Eric being a bit tragically frustrated at people being stupid.
@@charliecampbell6851 He could never invent something like the rotato, though.