The DIFFERENCE between jazz and classical pianists! 🧐 | Ben Laude & Noam Sivan
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.ย. 2023
- Ben Laude and Noam Sivan explain the values of learning to improvise as a classical musician.
Watch Laude and Sivan teach improvisation and more on Tonebase!
app.tonebase.co/piano/home
---
tonebase gives you instant access to knowledge from the world's greatest classical musicians, performers, and educators. Learn more by visiting tonebase.co/piano
Facebook - / tonebasepiano
Instagram - / tonebasepiano
Questions? Contact us: team@tonebase.co - เพลง
![[FULL EP.69] #เอิร์นจิรวรรณ เปิดบ้านหมื่นล้านทุกมุม ครั้งแรก! l เคหสถานบานปลาย l One Playground](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_J4_nw8c64o/mqdefault.jpg)
![CAMPปลิ้น | EP.76[2/2] เดินมาสิบกว่าป่า วันนี้รู้แล้วว่าโจโฉกลัวอะไร!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/R7Yor-t2Au0/mqdefault.jpg)
Beethoven for example was a genius improviser
Like me
He wasn't on that damn phone
@@Franz_Liszt_Korean but Beethoven was the first one ever to write down a Bebop
Opus 111. 3rd variation in the second sentence ;-)))
as well as most of the great composers too. Mozart, Bach, and from what I’ve heard Chopin especially
Exactly. Improvisation used to have a part in the classical music world
As a jazz pianist, years of practice improvising every day has gotten me familiar enough with my instrument to interpret and feel where the music energetically and emotionally wants to go next. It’s very limited conscious thinking, just colors that I hear the music asking for in my “minds ear” that we intuit out in a way I can’t 100% explain.
But tell me to play back and entire piece exactly as written I won’t have a great time. Weak reading skills were traded for ear training.
I have much admiration for my classical cohorts, playing together in either genre.
The different ways we reach, interpret, and personalize the music we play will never cease to amaze me. I envy the cultivated set of skills of my friends who admire my cultivated set of skills. So many talents to have and so many ways to interpret and interact with this music. Who can do it all? Very few. But we all *can* respect it all.
This video was a bit too dogmatic for me. My improvising is a power that some lack, but they hold powers i lack. While agree we should be able to intuit in real time, music is more than a verbal language.
Improviser or not, it’s about being an adept communicator. As a listener and enjoyer, one does not have to “learn the language” to understand the communication in music. Classical musicians are incredible interpreters, liaisons, and communicators of all these different feelings the greatest composers have given us. This man’s metaphor sounded alright, but falls narrow-mindedly short and misses the whole point of this lovely form of art.
Dude, that was beautiful, right choice of words. For real, thank you so much for this comment, it gave me thrills
Where did they suggest it’s bad that you can recite entire pieces from memory or by reading sheet music? They’re just saying that the way classical music is learned today lacks creativity; it lacks any improvisation. That’s objectively true.
Long story short; dumb comment.
Amazing analysis 👏
100% agree
@@matsab7930It’s not exactly the fact they said reading and reciting is useless, it’s the fact they said it in a way where improvisation is much more (if not completely) useful than the ability to interpret already written pieces. Of course, no one can deny improvisation is very important to have, but like with a coin, both sides of the story are equal. This is what the op was trying to convey, that you didn’t seem to understand.
this is what I like about baroque historically informed performances of bach or whomever because of the improvisation, makes every new recording special and not just fine tuning the interpretation to get to what the original composer might've intended.
I improvise in Bach
Things are not to be played the same way twice wether phrase or section. The repeated sections are supposed to be improvised upon
HIP is scam. The process is amazing, but the end result is purely contemporary regardless. We have no (sound) recordings from the baroque period and the whole baroque tradition was actually lost in history, mostly after 1848. Playing on period instruments doesn't make it an historically informed interpretation, such an accolade only sells to the people that still think music is supposed to be performed in one true way and the rest shouldn't be considered
@@longlifetometal1995 well of course we wont get to the real truth but to call it a scam is ridiculous. HIP has cleared up the interpretation of many pieces, I think most notably Bach's 'lute' works and Brandenburg no. 6, which only make any sense on historical instruments or something akin to them. I think a lot of the best art is best appreciated in its original context, like the roman frescoes from Pompeii look much better where they originally were instead of being torn away from the walls and hung up as if they were oil paintings, and I think the same can be said for HIP, yes other ways of playing the music are valid and can be very great(the WTC works wonderfully on the piano) but still the composer intended it to be played with the instruments of his day and I think that should be kept in mind in any other interpretation. and besides, we can know and gather a lot from instruments that were made back then or from descriptions of them, just because we don't have audio recordings doesn't mean we can't know what it sounded like.
@@longlifetometal1995Of course we don’t have recordings, of course we will never know what these tunes “truly” sounded like. That’s not the point of HIP. The point of HIP is essentially applied historical musicology. It’s putting as much aspect of the music back into its historical context as much as we’re able to. This doesn’t make HIP a “scam”.
What's the name of the first piece?
We do improvise, just not in public.
@@mildlyinterestingltsLOL!
@@mildlyinterestingltsOh yea, beginners are the best at "broken chords" and "dissonance" 😂
i play the piano and i also learn pieces of the great composers. but i also improvise and compose in classic and romantic style. i think it helps you develop a bond with the music and how the composers themselves felt during the process of improvisation and writing things down. it’s also a great way to channel your emotions. like into playing whatever melodie, rhythm etc comes to your mind
This takes the Cake
As a pianist, I believe the modern consensus is that classically trained musicians are expected to learn by mastering and performing in the appropriate style based on the compositional context and period of the piece. Improvisation is taught secondary alongside music theory, however is generally ignored for the repertoire. This goes in conjunction to earlier Baroque and Classical period teachings, where improvisation was taught as part of the performance practise and musical material (figured bass and ornamentation for example)
Yes! Coloratura for the singer and undocumented ornamentation on keys go hand in hand.
That doesn’t add up with the fact that classical pianists of today have a very hard time to improvise compared to those in the baroque and classical periods
We need more classical improvisation! Jazz is always welcome to exploring and improvising, and that is why it will never die. Classical music is vanishing outside of the academic system, but it doesn't have to be that way! Learning the stylistic and harmonic conventions of classical music has been massive for my musicianship, and improvising in these styles is the best way to compose. Don't let it die!
Not sure it's the best way to compose but like you, my classical training is a solid foundation to improvising. Perhaps you're including orchestration. Can't imagine not having access to others scores.
@@SpitfireRoad I found that once I was familiar with the "rules", my most natural melodies and intuitive formal discoveries came from deep within my soul. I like to record my improvisations, transcribe them, and edit and expand afterwards.
what do you mean though about orchestration?
@@bret6484 I'm the same. By orchestrating I meant "sculpting" music beyond piano/guitar/voice/harmonica and percussion. Took me half a lifetime to be bold enough to try it with any seriousness. Long user of Musescore (search Mr. Jeff). Mixcraft for my DAW, and soon, RipX. Amazing power!
share some music then @@bret6484
Yes but playing something already written permits playing much more difficult pieces than if we improvised. We need both styles.
I agree both styles are necessary, but a skilled improviser can come up with music as difficult as any written piece. Look at Art Tatum.
Sigh, why is "difficulty" sooo important for classical musicians. With some classical music students I feel that the level of difficulty is more important to them than the conveying emotion or beauty of a piece of music 😢
@@bodaciouscans its the status involved in the dick-comparing contest that is the classical world
@@bodaciouscansthe more sophisticated the music gets, the more possibilities open up to convey intricate emotions. Though it is not necessary that music must be sophisticated inorder to be emotional and all sophisticated music isn't emotion invoking either.
@@somasundaramsankaranarayan4592I dare you to find a single piece of music that more completely and profoundly conveys the emotion of "despair" better than "Frankie Teardrop," by a band which for TH-cam purposes I habe to call Self-Delete. The music is about as simple as something can get without being a solitary drone: a sparse drum loop created on a machine so old it would make the Roland 808 or the first generation LinnDrum look like Ableton by comparison, Marin Rev playing a simple keyboard line on what sounds like a heavily damaged console organ, and Alan Vega's half-warbling, half-screaming vocals. For over ten minutes of the bleakest sounds you'll ever hear these dead simple elements weave into a murder ballad that sounds for all intents and purposes like it's being broadcast directly from Hell itself: whether that is the literal Hell of the Bible or the Hell we all create within ourselves during our darkest moments is an exercise for the listener. It's been described by many as both one of the most powerful songs ever recorded and as the kind of song you only listen to once, with a riff and drum line that anyone vould program in five minutes. Musical compexity≠emotional depth.
F in the chat for that guy's hairline.
Shutup
Nikolai Kapustin is a perfect example of a composer/pianist in the middle of classical and jazz (or a man who is both jazz and classical musician)
Keith Jarrett and Brad Mehldau too!
This is why I invest a lot of time into ear training via sight singing. The way I understand things, you cannot really improvise or make your own music if you do not have "relative pitch". If you do not have this and cannot categorize the sounds then its material your brain does not have and cannot articulate thus is cannot utilize it in creation leaving you only to function with a mostly theoretical understanding which I don't think will ever get you to making anything of great value because art is highly intuitive. If you cannot articulate music in your head then you cannot intuit with it, etc.
Anyway, my point is that even though my piano lessons only consist of learning pieces and technique, I do not want to simply spend my life only playing music written by other people, by people from several hundred years ago. And so I take it upon myself to actually train myself to become musical.
I'm a classical musician mainly but I think that improvising is a valuable skill that every musician should learn regardless of what style they play.
Keith Jarrett is widely considered as the greatest piano improviser of the 20th century. He is a classically trained pianist who began to give recitals when he was six years old. Besides, he recorded Bach's major works.
Glad you brought him up. He can't play anymore like he used to but he is still a genius. Who is next on the stage?
@@SpitfireRoadHe's already well established, but Brad Mehldau is absolutely Keiths spiritual successor.
My experience is: classical pianists and jazz pianists are and think completely differently. You don't choose a side, you are what you are. Normally, classical musicians have an aversion to playing freely and improvising. Jazz pianists have a crisis when they have to play a certain piece without deviation. I am a quite successful composer (piano music) in Germany and I cannot improvise at all. (But I can teach beginners very well in improvisation.) There are very different areas in which one can be gifted or not gifted. And not everything can be learned.
Justify your expressed belief that these are "gifts" and cannot be learned.
I am classical musician, and I could not survive without improvisation, classical or jazz (mostly classical) and most of my compositions would not exist if I had not improvise first.
If classicals composers over centuries of musics (before the 20th century) were able to improvise incredible thing, there is not any reason that make modern pianists and composers unable to improvise. The only reason for this uncapacity even for a lot of really technically gifted pianists to improvise is elitism, over the last century, many piano teachers taught that improvisation is garbage, taught to theirs students no never play anything that is not written on a score, making the it sacred, denying and disapproving any attempt at musical innovation.
We should encourage students, teachers, and concert pianist to improvise (same for other instruments),never doing it contributes to the decline of classical music
@@rafjeevarafjeeva5952 Yes, we should encourage students, teachers and concert pianists to improvise. But I think anyone who feels the need to do so will do so. No matter what the teacher thought of it. My strong desire was to compose. No one encouraged me or made me do it. It came on its own. I improvise with all the students. Those who didn't want it from the beginning never liked it. And that's exactly how it is with me. :)
@@ZauberKlavierSandraLabsch I agree with you but the problem is that a lot of students that would like to improvise and could do it well are repressed by teachers (at least in conservatories). I've seen teachers being really harsh to young students that were trying to improvise. I think that teachers should teach to their students the basics of improvisation, it would make them understand better harmony, and understand what they are playing when they are playing a piece, (just play notes by heart without understanding the score is not very good for interpretation). This would benefit both those who love and hate improvising. Students would have a better understanding of what they are playing, and we would have more great improvisation pianist (Apart from Cyprien Katsaris there are not many anymore although it was common in the 19th century)
@@rafjeevarafjeeva5952 My personal experience: In Germany, most piano professors have no idea about improvisation (and unfortunately there are only a few good teachers for it at conservatories.) And what you haven't learned and can't do yourself, you can't teach at a high level, so you'd rather repress it in the student than admit that you're the wrong teacher for it. I know few teachers at universities who are good educators. Not to mention the human side. But that is just my personal experience. I was certainly a bit unlucky.
Great late classical pianists actually do improvises like Horowitz, Cziffra, etc. since they want to add their spice to it..
What have you done with your lives?? You've been helping in keeping alive extraordinarily beautiful masterpieces that would have faded into oblivion should you all amazing talented musicians hadn't invested your time in developing the necessary skills to allow us to enjoy that, which in most cases and in its own way, are the epitome of humanity itself. My sincere thanks and respect to all of you unsung performers of the human spirit songs.
WE NEED BOTH so thank you for existing!
I don't often play jazz, but when I do, it's gospel based
I'm a classical music player and I'm used to improvise on common pieces, and I usuallly compose stuff by doing that
The best explanation I’ve had for telling non-musicians the difference between classical and jazz musicians is this:
We’re interpretive artists who take the great works of all time into our body and soul and interpret them for the audience. It’s akin to an actor doing a Shakespeare play. There are as many ways to interpret them as there are human beings.
A jazz musician is closer to a stand up comedian who makes up things on the spot which come from their personal life experience. They retell a story, but the words might be different each time.
I don’t think it’s at all necessary for the two to overlap, and there aren’t many Shakespearean actors who would have any interest in doing standup comedy. Why should they? And vice versa.
Standup Shakespeare would be interesting.
@@Ubu987 isn’t that what Monty Python did? 😀
@@Ubu987Look up The Improvised Shakespeare Company. They’re amazing.
I think that’s a well reasoned standpoint but wouldn’t that logic essentially preclude any new compositions in the world of academia besides jazz?
I don’t feel like the vocabulary, forms and styles behind classical/western art music inherently lead to any existing modern genre and I doubt the type of improvisation in jazz would ever be compatible with anything besides solo pieces or specified solos.
It just feels like a shame because to me, it seems impossible that someone in the vein of Paganini would ever arise from the world of classical when no value is placed on the potential compositions and creative interpretations that the highest echelon of performers could create
Funny because in shakespears day there was also plenty of improv, stand up, and moments where actors were encouraged to just make it up. It wasnt until conservatists put in rigid rules and made everything prescriptive that we dont see any improv in shakespearean theatre today.
So the same with classocal music which had lots of improv. It HAD to in order for people to make improvements to music.
I've been teaching for 20 years... a curriculum specifically designed to address this! We improv at every lesson. And still learn to read scores.
Uh you say that, but Organists in Europe for instance are expected to improvise. I saw Naji Hakim, who succeeded Messiaen, improvise on variously melodies.
I really liked the music in the background! It was a nice touch
You’re right. Not enough performance oriented classical musicians study important composition based studies such as partimenti, counterpoint, schenkerian analysis, etc. These studies are key to understanding the language
My son plays the piano professionally. Inspired by several years in London, he developed a particular love of classical pieces. Meanwhile, his work as a soloist and accompanist requires everything from pop and rock to jazz and blues. So today he switches comfortably from one style to another. If there is interest or need, I think a well-trained musician should be able to perform anything. That said, his current teacher is very much in "Camp Classical", and cannot improvise. He can't even do a walking bassline. My son, on the other hand, plays whatever the people request! I suppose a lot of this depends on whether music is a career or a hobby.
anyone know the piece at the beginning? Recognize but can't name
Here in Spain, my son is somewhat of a novelty because he is both classically trained and can also improvise on the spot- over contemporary or classical melodies. He even "finished" one of Chopin's unfinished works and unless you knew the original, it's difficult to note where one composer ends and the other begins.
I just love the humility of Ben Laude.
I’m a continuo player and I improvise on the piano when I coach Mozart operas or accompany Baroque cantatas! It was SHOCKING how similar to jazz it is - I took a few jazz piano lessons and had that epiphany moment.
I'm both an organist and a classical pianist... as an organist, I improvise all the time... BUT I always improvise a encore
I improvise classically it's very fun!
I LOVE YOU SENSITIVE PEOPLE! ❤❤❤❤❤ Thank-You all !!! ❤❤❤
What about partimento?
The only problem with this argument is that I can’t stand to listen to jazz. It bores the crap out of me . Just my opinion. I want music that has a wider variety of rhythm, a well thought out structure, more musical depth, etc. I’ve yet to hear any jazz which moves me on an emotional level, and isn’t that what music is about? Every musician should read Oliver Sachs Musicophilia where he discusses the fact that our brains have a visceral reaction to hearing familiar melodies and harmonic progressions. If those are altered with each performance, the brain doesn’t react the same way. Something being improvised on the spot won’t have the same depth of meaning on a listener and ditto for hearing the world premiere of a new work. In other words, by its very nature, jazz cannot stimulate the brain the way classical music does. It’s inherent in the two types of music. Jazz has a sameness about it which causes me to lose interest very quickly.
Speak for yourself. I'm a classical pianist and I improvise all the time. It was an examined part of my master's degree. Most classical pianists I know how to improvise, whether that's in cadenzas, or added decorations in a repeated section of music. Plus when a page turn goes wrong or a mistake is made - most classical pianists must know how to improvise a little to cover those mistakes and keep the music coherent. While you're correct in saying it's not as big a part of classical music performance as it once was, and is more prevalent in jazz, it is still an essential skill that almost every professional pianist knows how to do. Don't spread misinformation please.
Does anyone know the piece played at the beginning?
I am a classical pianist and I improvise. Let’s make it short like a Shorts: difference between Earth and Moon.
If I were you sir, I would shave it all. Promise!
thanks i was looking for a comment acknowledging the haircut
Who is the lady at the end of the video playing the first chord of Beethoven Sonata 8?
That's Beethoven herself!
Name of the piece pls?
I want it too!
The ending is so real lmao
can we please bring back improv in classical music
There is a revival happening, thanks to partimento.
In Europe lots of people learn latin, it’s part of our curriculum, not only priests like in America. Latin is a great thing.
In America the focus is on learning the parts that are most relevant, such as affixes.
There are plenty of people across America that have taken Latin in high school, college, or both. Some start even younger. I’m just tired of seeing “like in America” from people who barely have a surface level understanding of America.
@@SWTORLOL87 sorry i don't like ur culture except the blacks and the jewish are good like billy holliday or bob dylan
and dday in normandie thank u for that
@@raphael2692 Okay, that had nothing to do with what I said but okay. I’m just saying it’s foolish to speak on things you don’t know about. I know it’s super cool and trendy to hate America but do it correctly.
I was trained classically, as a piano major in college. I learned improvisation gradually. Now, I play by ear and improvise as much or more than I play classical. I play and teach both genres now. I play in church and as a recorded artist. I teach classical pianists to play by ear and improvise.
I was told that the present rigid approach to classical music is relatively recent. In opera singing, for instance, many of the high notes, ornaments and even cadenzas that are performed today were not written. In the golden years of bel canto, every performer was encouraged to add his or her personal touch. Sometime in the 20th century, voice teachers started to tell singers to stick to the written score but oddly enough, many of the virtuoso parts of those scores are some of the best improvised variations from the early singers. I don’t know whether that is true or not but that’s what I was told.
Indeed we lost a bit the notion of improvising in classical music, at least for the firts years but later when a pianist become more accomplish he is also able to improvise. It is actually the case for most classical concertist.
Reject the either/or premise! Put the classical training and repertoire together with the jazz improvisation and songbooks! Suggested listening: Bob James 1, 2, 3 & 4; Ramsey Lewis, Return to Forever, Wynton Marsalis, Renee Fleming, and Duke Ellington
We read music and the rewards are the same, or greater, as reading any text.
Great short and all, but have you got any Pez?
Both skills are necessary in my opinion. Composed music helps create gargantuan musical forms for ensembles which improvised music cannot offer. On the other hand improvising helps you speak the language and is a totally different kind of enjoyment and experience. I use both in my gigs and will favor one or another depending on situation.
what's really matters is the music itself, no matter whether it is improvised or not. Improvised bad music will always be bad music.
“Can we imagine learning a language by only reading, memorizing, and reciting the language without being able to speak that language?” Yes we can imagine it because that’s what 99% of people do in their native language. Improvising isn’t akin to speaking, it’s akin to synthesizing a new written book. Reciting = speaking. Why would most pianists be expected to reach the level
of synthesis when almost no one in any other field reaches that level? There are millions of cooks but only a handful of original chefs.
I would also argue that 99% of “improvisers” aren’t synthesizing anything new on the spot. They are regurgitating motifs and ideas that are in their mind, perhaps original or not. But at best it is subconscious recitation in a new order, but not actually in the moment synthesis.
learning a language is not like music
i never speak but i listen to it(i'm introvert)
and i play instrument i learn techniques and practice it
Is a shame because, back in Bach's day, musicians were expected to be able to improvise over music. Even a mediocre keyboard player was expected to be able to make a mediocre fugue on the spot. It wasn't until about the era of Beethoven that improvising started to become a dirty word and with that, classical musicians began to lose an important part of themselves.
The Historically Informed Performance cult took it a step further and said not only are you to never improvise, but there are only two or three ways you're allowed to express a piece of you want acceptance.
This expedited classical music to its grave.
I think I agree with the other person that the culture of hyper-fixation on perfecting interpretations to the composers' original intent was more due to a long historical process and the advent of recording technologies (which changed the whole dynamic of performance).
It's a little strange that you brought up historically informed performance, as I tend to see in them MORE improvisation and freedom in phrasing (such as in ornamentation, cadenzas, rubato, and other creative choices) than most "standard" recordings. It's hard to believe that this relatively niche practice would have such a profound impact on classical music culture when MOST concert performances, MOST competitions, and MOST recordings people are exposed to (all of which uphold perfectionism) are not HIP. So, again, weird narrative to advance.
I've been saying this for years and wrote my masters thesis on "how to learn and teach classical improvisation". You label the chords as if it was a jazz chart (use names not roman numerals. Ex. GM) and then follow with the corresponding scales/key you're in. With some practice, you'll be feeling your way around. You can also vocalize this to be more intentional. To improvise the left hand or harmony with both hands, simply keep the same chords but change the texture (example: for a G major harmony, you can play any of those G B D's on the piano in any assortment, rhythm or texture). With some practice, it'll start feeling natural. Mozart is a great starting point since his music is so scalar and clearly reflects his improvising genius. The Twinkle Variations alone are like a study in improvisation.
The answer is simple: standards in classical is too high. In jazz you can learn how to play a few seventh chords and you already will sound like a decent jazz musician not so worse than best known. In classical you need to know EVERYTHING to sound like poor copy of Rachmaninov.
A classical music background is priceless ❤
YOU don't improvise. Artists do. Gekic does and many other great classical musicians throughout history. I do, and although I'm still learning its astounding to me that we've let it get this bad.
Found you
@@The_Guy_Who_Asked_06 is that the guy who asked??
big fan please upload more
Can someone tell me whats the name of the piece of music at the beginning of this video?
This surely short changes the endeavors and achievements of so many musicians. Perhaps there's a better way than this to encourage people to use their ears and imagination. I don't think the study and performance of written music is really comparable to the study of a dead language. Hearing (or learning to play) a written composition is still a living experience.
What were they playing at the beginning
Classical Musicians do improvise!
If I should only play jazz, which I love, then why did Chopin or Liszt and others composed such genial works that reel you in and just beg to be played?
Bro's hair💀
What's the piece at the beginning of the clip again? I recognise it, but can't remember which piece it was.
Actually we learn Latin in school so basicly to read the old roman Texts like Ciceros Speeches or Julius Cessrs de bello galico. So yes you can learn a language like this.😊 it is more than just memorizing the Text, you need to understand it too.
And that's why I quit music school-because I wanted to make music.
Was that last chord the beginning of Pathetique Sonata Mov1?
I don't make mistakes. I am just improvising
I'm a classicle pianist, and I learned how to improvise in a classicle style and use baroque methods, too. However, I've never played jazz.
Historically improvisation used to be the norm in “classical” music. Organists have kept the tradition.
Learning music theory and applying those rules in real time is essentially what improvisation is.
Jazz is also firmly rooted in western music theory.
It’s not a mysterious skill, it’s just a craft.
Ha. That Cm intro to Pathetique Sonata at the end
I feel that ben
Same with guitar. (Usually electrical) guitarists are expected to improvise as they practice from the moment they learn their first scale
I generally think that most classical music aficionados and experts do not actually understand what it means to improvise.
Most people think that improvisation is all about the creation of new notes. But that is just one type of improvisation. You can still memorize entire notes and still improvise how the performance ought to go.
That said however, many classical pianists do improvise. They are just unable to improvise in the language of the many composers music that they perform. Tone Base should really look into this and getting things right.
Name of this song?
Does anyone know, it sounded amazing
Where is the full video
I am a professional educated classical pianist. To be more precise, I am learning now Rachmaninov’s 3rd piano concerto, which is considered one of the most difficult piano creations ever. Now I am a student composer at the conservatory only because I was improvising, working, reading and practicing for a few years. So classical pianists do improvise, and some of us can do this very well. I like both classical and jazz music, so I improvise in both styles equally, but I guess in classical style I do better because I like it a bit more :)
What was I trying to say…oh, exactly - listen a lot of music, do some analysis and most important - go practice!!!
Chilly Gonzales embodies the old-school composer in this regard. He improvises on his compositions constantly.
Who is the pianist that plays a chord at the end of the video?
🤣Yeah it sure seems like classical pianists think they can't improvise. But that's a seldom mentioned advantage of electronic keyboards, over acoustic pianos - you can plug headphones into them! Classical pianists, you already learned everything you need to know, and then some. You just need to not be embarrassed, let go of the need for perfection, and practice doing it... headphones.
It's almost always a mental block. I've met players of other instruments, especially monophonic instruments. They can play sheet music without understanding the language, sure. Piano, though, I'm just not buying that they haven't figured things out a little. Unless the player is still very young, from an old person's perspective. In which case, what better time than now to start making your own music! I'm trying to think if I've known any classical pianists, personally, who couldn't improvise, once they put their mind to it... I used to know college aged classical students (good ones), and I remember headphones (or a soundproofed practice room, if that's available) helped. Also, little successes spur on the curious. That was probably the biggest motivator, in practice. This "short" has brought back some good memories of people I hadn't thought about in a while - thanks for that.
*That one famous classical pianist that improvised Chopin at a recital* : I have no weaknesses
Classical pianists express themselves through their personal interpretations of these masterpieces, but not too long ago, they did improvise.
Yunchan Lim loves to improvise. That is why each of his performance is worth to watch.
I've read that at least two thirds of Chopin's actual output were improvisations of his own music which at the time was the main reason people flocked to hear him play. It seems as though it's the composers who are allowed to improvise unless it's jazz.
People forget, "classical" music was modern for its day, and office unique and experimental.
It’s crazy because improvisation was a HUGE part of the great composers skill set, they did it all the time.
Bros hairline is hanging on for dear life
I have never felt more valid. An arpeggio is just an arpeggio, doesn’t mean I’m influenced by beethoven. All classical musicians can improvise, they are just too blind to recognize music as music.
It’s time dawg
But I agree with what dude said
Both approaches have merit.
Yes and no, when comparing to language, you can perform a well-known poem on a stage or entertain as a stand-up comedian improvising on the go. Both are good, and both have their place on the stage.
We’re seeing a resurgence of musicians who have the ability to improvise as the ‘great composers’ did. Musicians like Nahre Sol recomposing Happy Birthday in the style of different composers. There’s a video of a young pianist playing Giant Steps in the style of Chopin. The future of classical music is looking up.
This is... not really true in my experience. While, yes, classical music doesn't have the same fundamental dedication to improvisation that say jazz does most professional classical pianists will still be capable improvisers at least. When I studied with David Owen Norris he would often focus intensly on improvisation during lessons and workshops. The last century has also seen contemporary compositions which often call for improvisation and the revival of baroque period performances that also began in that time are extremely relient on improvisation. This kind of mentality comes across and basically just elitist 'X is better than Y' and is a mentality that should be less common in the arts. The language comparison also just doesn't stack up at all under scrutiny quite frankly.
I’d say you’ve had a privileged experience in the modern classical world. The vast majority of classical players have to become highly advanced before they consider improvising, and that’s if they’re even exposed to the kinds of modern music you refer to, or the advanced performance practices of past eras - like realizing figured bass or improvising a cadenza. Most people never reach that level, and play by rote their whole lives.
I agree there’s no use to the “X is better than Y” approach to music. There are many ways that an INTERCHANGE between the genres of written music and improvised music could enrich both. And indeed, written music heavily influences improvised music in nearly every instance. As a jazz and classical player, there are many ways in which I believe jazz could benefit from traits common in modern classical music.
But for me, the language metaphor holds up, and problems are worth pointing out. Learning to memorize entire pieces before learning to improvise is like learning to recite before learning to speak. I’ve always felt the entire system was ass-backwards.
Does that mean we should never recite, or that you can’t build whole musical genres, careers, and institutions off of memorized or sight-read art? Of course not. But being able to speak your own words naturally makes you a better interpreter for the words of others. And regardless of how well you speak the words of others, the complete inability to speak in your own words leaves you intellectually and emotionally crippled.
The current musical educational system has just normalized it enough that most music students don’t realize how brutally short their wings have been clipped. And I think that needs to change.
Romantic pianists: both please
I supous that this part of concerto for Piano and orquesta where Mozart wrote "cadenza" was for IMPROVISATION😆
JAZZ is the opositor of clásica repertorio but MANY People play both very WELL.
thats just you ben. most of us dedicated musicians learn not only the notes.
Why did classical pianists stop improvising? They greatest works we play today were composed by musicians such as Mozart and Chopin who were known for their improvisation skills. More classical pianists should make improv part of their daily practice.
As long as there no teachers in great conservatories who think like that, this will never change. These theacher puts in student's heads that improvising and composing is bullshit, waste of time... When in fact, this is the most complete way for an artist to expresse their art!
The same artists take up on rolls, the classical musician or interpret co-signs the piece he/she is playing. It’s like co-creating
Do you play the transcendental attitudes by Liszt?