AdvancedGG “Castle” 10% off & PLEASE GO SUB TO DIFFIZZLE, SEPARER, AND BENNY THEIR GAMEPLAY IS LITERALLY SO MUCH BETTER THAN MINE LOL: th-cam.com/users/iambennyshmurda / th-cam.com/users/separer / th-cam.com/channels/py9ckRxleSSRciniAhdnmA.html I also put a video from each of their channels in the description. ❗️AdvancedGG Sponsorship❗️ 10% OFF WITH CODE CASTLE (advanced.gg/?ref=CASTLE) my fav flavors are Mango Splash and Triple Berry
Benny, the trashcan that 1v3s less skilled players and avoids the 1v3 vs a stacked squad callous. He just doesn't want to get shit on and have it be recorded.
@@panini5733 it's funny that you didn't address the real issue, which is he 1v3s trashcans and refuses to vs a stacked squad. I'm a halo player and I play vs stacked teams every day. Benny, as I mentioned before, just doesn't want to get shit on anddddd the D2 community just wants easy lobbies every game, case and point, flawless pool, which is now on Sundays and many "pros" want it removed because it's too "sweaty." Imagine calling yourself a top player and then complain about playing vs other good players. 🤦♂️
The pacing of this video is so good, that not even the frequent interruptions for talking about the other guys or your ad break messed up your flow. That's excellent voice control and editing at work.
Talking about igneous being a stat monster, I think they just didn't want to balance it currently with alacrity being added to the trials weapons. Using smallbore, ricochet, rapid hit, and elemental capacitor on arc with a range mw you could buff its stats to almost max in every category under the right circumstances but still incredibly high otherwise. With 4 rapid hit stacks and alacrity active you'd have 100 range, 100 stability, 91 handling, 100 reload, and 79 aim assist which would go up to 94 with two targeting mods.
I got a extended barrel, ricochet, QuickDraw, elemental, reload MW igneous adept that I run with bottom tree goldy and adept reload for max impact, range, reload. or void with adept stability for max impact, range, stability. Or I’ll jus run adept icarus on stasis. Super well rounded definitely in my top 5 most valuable guns.
@@shinybeast all ornaments are obtainable at any time. If you go into the detail screen on your Hawkmoon, and look at the ornaments and hover over the locked ones, it will give you the option to purchase any of them for 700 silver at any time
My issue with Finite Impactor is that to maximize one of the stats, you have to seriously sacrifice another one, like with Iron reach, Iron Grip, literally anything else, while most hand cannons don't need you to do that
It’s base stats just aren’t up to 140 standards a 180 with iron reach alone has more range than a finite impactor with full bore range mw iron reach and ricochet
Finite Impactor straight up needs free stat buffs to compete. Idk what Bungie is doing with it, its a RECENT 140 hc (top of the meta) losing badly vs weapons released 4 years ago lol.
Old D1 player here. Been out of the loop for 4 or five years but a few of these I have already and just trying to understand the perks and rolls again....especially on armor. Awesome video and thanks for taking the time and dedication.
To those just watching, 180's have been buffed since this video's release and are viable as it stands today, vulpecula with adagio can kill a guardian with 2 head, 1 body, survivors epitaph also has access to kill clip, use this information as you need
I know it's an old comment but I'm glad someone brought this up. Vulpecula is one of the few non exotic hand cannons I can do consistently well with. I'm glad Castle mentioned explosive payload too, because you can have any other perk on it and EP on a 180 buffed handcannon will hit you like a bus.
@@MegaDrain funnily enough i quit D2 sonce that comment with lightfall and bungies behaviour leading up to it being the main reason beyond crucible. That said, 180's sre something i've reccomended to a lot of people that say they cant use hand cannons, once you get to grips with a survivors epitaph or violated, picking up ace of spaces or another 140 is far less alien and easier to get a hold of
The sturm drang combo with nightstalker and either mechaneers tricksleeves or khepris sting is actually insanely strong. Smoke bombs are so good for priming and beating special weapon wielders in close range especially with the damage buff of khepris and then you have truesight to line up the sturm 2 tap after, and if youre low health the tricksleeves damage buff let you either 3 or 2 tap your opponent with drang which will usually out-ttk a fusion unless they pre-charge and it usually is quick enough to kill a shotgun user before they close the gap. The tricksleeves build is also really good with bottom tree arcstrider for that synergy with the combat meditation(?) Perk that gives you super fast ability recharge rates when youre low health
I remember before the Lumina got buffed and I refused to put it down. The stats were never the issue it was the fact healing teammates didn't heal you, in my opinion. It was honestly amazing in comp as long as you were the best player on the team and your teammates were still good but also using diff weapons like shotguns or snipers. It allowed 90rpm snipers to 1 shot body and you could easily time a heal on a shotgun rush for your teammate. People just never learned how to use it correctly. I also combined this with the trials SMG that had harmony (after a kill with your primary, switch to the smg for bonus dmg) So I would get a kill with lumina, switch to the smg while I had the noble round track to me, get an smg kill. Now when I killed with lumina a second time, I'd shoot it at a teammate for a double buff
Hawkmoon, the pay to win ornament is the Austroraptor and it is because it removes the obnoxious wings from the sides of the gun's sight. Well it is far less noticeable on that ornament, and the sights are so much cleaner compared to other ornaments. Next time it is for sale at Eververse, get it everyone. Good luck and love these collaboration vids.
I would like to see a video of every sidearms being ranked so I know if some of the sidearms I still have from back during Warmind are worth keeping and if any of them you could still get.
The 'Austroraptor' ornament for Hawkmoon makes aiming down sights with Hawkmoon much cleaner, decreasing the size of the gun and sights, allowing the player to see more while ADSing.
the reason that thorn is so much more effective in the air is that it has about a 21 airborne effectiveness were as Ace of Spades has only a airborne effeteness of 14
Finite Impactor's best and honestly fun role is Hynra's slide shot focused fury role. Every time you slide, you add 2 bullets to your mag and it doesn't count as a reload. So, you can miss as many shots as you want, but if you slide instead of reloading, you get a free damage buff
I gotta say that the ikelos hand cannon feels really smooth on controller at least for me with my slideways high impact reserves roll it’s also got seraph rounds which is just insane imo
Ouch my only disagreement was the Loud Lullaby. I have a really high range roll with kill clip/tunnel vision and it felt perfect for this last weekend in trials where most lanes were just out of that 140 hand cannon range. Also two tapping all those lorely titans abusing damage buffs was solid. Being in the kinetic also let me use lord of wolves to counter those damn renewal grasp duskfields.
@@GeoGyf I believe Rangefinder adds a flat percentage, and the range stat usually only adds 9-12 meters overall (from 0)(That's my running theory, anyway... mostly because I can't find a gun w/ 0 range, and I am extrapolating from what I've got). Like, a no perk/77 Range Insidious (Adept) hits at 38.27 meters while ADS (According to D2gunsmith). If I start adding Full bore, Accurized, and the +3 from the MW So it hits 100), I get 41.54 meters... That's a 3.27 meter distance. Which leads me to believe that for every +25 in the range bar = 3.5 - 4 meters. Someone smarter than me can check that math (since I am doing it in my head), and I have to stress that it's math that only applies to pulses because Destiny's menus like to say stats are more universal than they actually are. Now, moving onto the Sacred Provenance: at 99 Range w/ Rangefinder, this one hits at 45.53 meters, using the same tool I mentioned above. Now, let's compare yours and see if it all adds up. Though, just by looking at this, the Range bar does matter (obviously), but Rangefinder is literally just extra range/zoom for largely no cost. Sacred Provenance w/ Arrowhead and Ricochet (the most immediate combination that I could find to hit your two numbers there) hits at 38.27 meters at base w/o Rangefinder. W/ Rangefinder you hit 42.1 meters. Which is a 3.83(?) meter increase. Insidious: The closest simulation I could get was 90 range/78 stability (w/corkscrew, Accurized, and a Stability mw), which gives us 40.12 meters. Which is overall worse. It's an extra 1.98 meters. Which I've found to be noticeable. Hope this was at least somewhat helpful, given the 10-15 minutes I spent writing it out and doing the research lol.
@@someguy1365 Indeed the Insidious has Corscrew, Accurized, Stability mw, heating up, rampage. 93 recoil which might be one of the differences and weakness of that archetype, the 4th bullet veers slightly left (but then again my old Blast Furnace doesnt care so idk). S.Provenace has arrowhead, ricochet, rangefinder, kill clip. Thats 100 recoil, but its more laser, the 4shots are more closely grouped. But in reality, when i used them in Trials, S.Provenance was by far more accurate & could hit further distances. The damage perks werent really helpful in Trials however, i only posted them now for the sake of the discussion. I have to add i'm old gen & maybe this explains something (we have more zoom which may help weapons or outright destroy them, idk how old gen zoom if even gives anything). When i say destroy guns, smgs are very jumpy (ex tarrabah), especially Death Adder, which was unusuable until i got a Rangefinder roll along with a couple range barrels etc (has one of the lowest ranges in the game). I have played with weapons on PC, its a night & day difference, little recoil, bloom etc. The videos of the youtubers highlighting "laser guns", most are just not possible on old gen.. Anywat, i used the pulses extensively on the Mercury Trials map (the one with the tube), and the common engagements were one enemy team at the right tunnel & enemies on the left of the small bridge-like gap or the right tunnel (there is a flag in Control/IB). And vice versa, although when i spawned middle i usually holded mid. I had multiple Trials games as i went from 9 rank to 17 rank, so plenty of testing.
@@GeoGyf It's because of Arrowhead then. You only have 78 Recoil direction on your Insidious, which doesn't change the overall range, but it may give the illusion that the gun isn't as accurate at further ranges. Your Sacred Provenance has 100 RD, and that can REALLY help. I believe Castle has a video about the interactions of RD and Stability, and you largely only needing to hardcore spec into one of those stats, but it being nice to have a mix of them.
@@someguy1365 i have 93 recoil (CB mod) not 78 lol. On second thought, now that i have seen Gjerda's shotgun video, weapon barrel length still matters. Could also matter here Unrelated, but really bad practice from Bungie not to change this hidden statistic, it seems the exotic ornaments are still pay to win since the barrel length matters.
I just started to play destiny 2 weeks ago, and attempted pvp for the first time last night. Im getting my ass beat pretty bad, but youre channel is giving me awesome tips! Thanks for the content, cant wait to learn more dude!
I miss using my fluted, accurized, surplus, explosive, range mw Bottom Dollar. Haven't used it a ton since 120s were meta but I still pull it from the vault from time to time.
One roll I don’t see very often on fatebringer is tunnel vision kill clip. The two perks work so well together and you can go on such a kill spree chaining the perks together making it almost impossible to miss a headshot
Probably don’t see it because timelost fatebringer is farmabale and guaranteed to roll with explosive payload, and while tunnel vision is a solid perk, explosive payload is way too good not to use. I do have a EP/kill clip roll though that is pretty nasty considering I haven’t gotten the eye of the storm or opening shot roll
my first lighthouse weapon was an adept igneous with rapid hit-snapshot, people tell me that its bad but i just love it!, 1500 kills and still counting .
Notes about the Sturm: - Kills auto reload energy weapons, not just the Drang, so can be somewhat useful in some situations - With Drang, it doesn't overcharge Sturm's next shot per kill in the standard way; It refills the entire mag and then adds an overcharged shot. This stacks 99 times so you can end up with a 111 (12 base, 99 empowered) shot Sturm if you can pull it off. Highly unlikely in PvP but very fun in PvE.
Fantastic video 👍 I am surprised that you didn’t factor reload speed into this tier list because for 120s (I’m thinking of steady hand) I think the reload can hinder it I know you can use mods and exotics to increase this but nonetheless
23:30 You say Finite Impactor is hard to get, but along with Occluded Finality, it's the main weapon I always get, just constantly, from turning in tokens. It's always gonna be armor, Finite Impactor, or Occluded Finality, which doesn't make me happy, because I want literally every other Iron Banner weapon over those two.
Seriously, thank you for making this vid. I see so many content creators making vids for trash weapons, calling them "INSANE", when they're actually mediocre at best.
@@viviolet7 if you did vox obscura and paid attention to certain dialogue in the seasonal story, they pretty much confirm Calus and the Leviathan is returning. Caiatl and Zavala want to kill him. Mainly Caiatl.
My Eyasluna is my favorite HC right now. Fastdraw, Hi Cal, Rangefinder, Snapshot, Stability Masterwork. With 80 stability it really does feel so good and my crit percentage shows at almost 70%
Finite lacks Stability and Range I would try to land shots and it kicks as your shooting a gun too close to the face. I can argue that its c-tier if you play in its intended ranges with max stability perks without hurting stats, And go killing wind with elemental capacitor on void for stability (and maybe stasis for recoil direction and have max strafe speed) Yet again why would you choose Finite when you can use its older sister Cantata-57 or its spicy cousin Annual Skate Both easier to get and better in every way Recommended MW:Stability (You can go range but I wouldn't recommend it) Edit:Minor spelling fixes
Has anyone ever tried putting on the full auto mod on any of the hand cannons? just curious because I put it on my 180s just for fun and it actually made a noticeable difference.
I still love my Dire Promise. I have a Nice roll with steady hand sight, armor piercing, opening shot, range finder, and a range MW. It never leaves my inventory.
My favorites are Cantata, Judgement, Ace and Hawkmoon. They all feel amazing to me. Last Word needs an adjustment though. And Crimson should get a flinch output nerf.
@@Billy-ld1im I agree with not touching it for now. It’s definitely extremely powerful but last word performs very well in a significantly smaller range window than other meta hand cannons. It’s not all that difficult to outplay if you know someone has it. I use a variety of hand cannons and enjoy the last word, but with fusions in their current state, I haven’t found it to be all that enjoyable because you can get one shot at your max damage range
Vulpecula is my most consistent gun, I have more crucible kills with it than Ace and i've had it for a fraction of the time. Yet for whatever reason everyone else seems to hate it.
Phenomenal vid! And in the future, we would love to hear snippets of you and these creators commenting and debating as y’all ranked the weapons in real time. you made them seem so hype I just wanted to get to know them a little more without having to leave the video.
the austroraptor ornament for hawkmoon is pay to win due to the clearer reticle and the two green nodes on the sight that make it easier to see your target (imo)
Vulpecula might actually be my fav handcannon. I will always attest that a gun you feel comfortable with will always perform better than a gun that you use just because it’s “meta” My go-to roll is an explosive payload/outlaw, and maybe it’s because of the higher rate of fire, maybe it’s because most people don’t prepare for an engagement against someone using a 180rpm handcannon, but this gun changed my crucible experience forever
Use whatever you like, but to the point you make about using what you’re comfortable with…some weapons or archetypes require a little more time to get comfortable with, but the reward can be massive. 180s are far easier to use than 140s, but the versatility, range, and TTK of 140s will always outclass 180s. You can always choose to use what you enjoy, but put some time into other weapons and see if they start to click after a while
I personally think Malf should be a little higher due to its niche reliability against high DR builds (Renewals, Stag, Bastions, Rime, Icefalls, etc) as well as reliable super killing, but a great list overall. Good work
A little unfair on the frontiers cry, c tier would fit it but overall good job on the video👍. Really enjoyed seeing multiple people ranking the tiers together
Yeah, last word is so strong on console, it’s genuinely beyond me how it’s been this strong for this long. Like no primary can compete in a 1v1. It needs to be at least 4 tap to the head to be remotely balanced.
Regarding Finite Impactor: one perk combo that saves it is slideways + focus fury. When you slide to reload bullets, it does NOT reset the shot count for focus fury. That means you can prock the damage buff in pvp without even scoring a kill, and you can miss as many shots as you like. Probably a blast to mess with in 6v6
I can’t replace my Eyesluna that thing is my heart and soul in crucible. I think that the way the Fatebringer recoils just feels wierd on controller, like after you shoot the reticle just feels wrong but Eyesluna just feels like everything a handcannon should be 🥹 Edit: Austringer is back. My Eyesluna has since been replaced…
@@english103channel I’ve heard eyasluna feels like it has more bloom or is just less consistent on MnK. I play controller and love both weapons, though I do think a perfectly rolled timelost fatebringer is better than eyasluna no matter the input. Really comes down to preference because both are top tier options with great perk selections
@@colbyclay5911 I have another different experience :D fatebringer feels kinda wierd for me on pc, just the sight I feel like it limit me a lot. But luna is god teir for some reason. I thought it is stability, but I have that hight on fatebringer too. But I just have constant 3 taps with luna, I feel like I cant miss.
I love how you put 180s in a short summary. "It can be good... If you can get a kill in the first place and proc a damage perk" 180s make me so depressed at their state rn, they just suck so much compared to any other handcannon ttk. It especially sucks because i love that intrinsic icarus and high stability, but they just dont have the ttk to actually duel someone and not have to rely on them missing or fucking up in some way
I used to rock 140's but they never really did it for me, and ironically I pulled out nature and it rocked for me. And I eventually in beyond light swapped to Outlaw Headstone Vulpecula. I am the opposite of you, I'm fairly accurate with 140s but I'm an auto rifle main at my core and am used to low recoil autos and I don't really suffer from an over correction situation so I naturally dink people hard. Of course, the biggest play for me is if it's fun and it's super fun for both pve and PvP and gambit.
Eysaluna with unrelenting kill clip is nasty, going from engagement to engagement healed and damage boosted is mega helpful and has major game making potential
As a Loud Lulllaby main, I am sadddened. However, I totallly understand. For me, I love the odddballl aesthetics of it, and the unique sights especiallly strike my fancy. Also love my Tunnnel Vision/Killl Clip rolll, haha
I love dire, I'll die the hill that it's the best hand cannon in the game for pvp. It just feels so good, the sound, the recoil, the sights, goddamn i love it Maybe its just me playing with it for so long, but i have a 84% hs with Dire, and all my other 140s sit around 72-76%hs
I have to say, my fave recently is Cantata, I got EOTS/MT max range and it duels like a dream, I'm not a recoil direction crazy person, maybe cuz I'm on M&K, but that HC is gotta be my fave.
I have a small bore, accurized rounds, quickdraw explosive payload bottom dollar with a range masterwork that made me understand that sometimes we can have too much range because that kick is something else
I wasn't expecting my Main gun to be ranked second. I absolutely love Crimson. it gives me the feel of a pulse rifle. without actually having to use my pulse rifles lol.
1:15 “… this is an imitation of the Red Death …” imitation is a good word for it lmao I just miss Red Death man, was my beloved in D1, and as a pulse, it could feel good on all inputs whereas Crimson feels like utter garbage unless you’re on controller (and even then, its horrendous viewkick blocking your view of your target could be annoying to a player on any input/platform) Edit: neat, I actually didn’t know about those ornament/FOV combos! It’s just kinda a screwup on Bungie’s part that we have to go to such lengths just to fix a problem the gun shouldn’t have imo, but all the same this is a good find until when/if they do fix it.
Sunshot has always been my favorite even without the catalyst and after finally finishing the catalyst after coming back to destiny after years of not playing I finally got it and mannnnnn it makes it a different breed of good lol
I grabbed an Eyasluna with sureshot and steadyhand, whichever I want at the time. Other than that High cal, rangefinder, snapshot, and range mw. I love it.
Great video! I think it would be sort of interesting for people to include blue hand cannons (and other blue weapons) to see how they rank just for fun
I don't like hand cannons, but I love this video. Gave me a reason do dust off my True Prophecy, Posterity, Eyasluna and Hawkmoon again and sling them back into their holsters. I hope there are more of these for weapon types, because this was the most awesome tier-listing videos that I willingly sat through to listen to. Thank you guys all very much for the time spent with these!
Might be a bit late but just because the hand cannon is S tier (same goes for everything not just hand cannons) doesn't instantly mean it'll work for you.
@@cheesybeans9476 Yeah, I realized that a couple months after I made this comment, but I do appreciate you reminding me that not every S-tier is the same for everyone. 😅 Honestly, about a month ago, I found the only handcannon I genuinely like is Cantata and Seraph Officer Revolver (coincidentally enough).
@@TheMrMayo yeah I usually do PvE, only do PvP for the gear or if I'm bored but if u want a good PvP 180, malfeasance has like, ascended into god hood and the iron banner one, despite what was said in the video, actually kinda slaps if you managed to get one. Other than that survivors epitaph is ok but I'd recommend the other w first
Crimil’s Dagger had such solid perks and doesn’t deserve to be that low. The only problem is it hasn’t been available for a very long time so people make due with the consolation prize Steady Hand which i always felt weaker
It's fair to say that using any of these with Lucky Pants pushes them up a full category. I've been using Sunshot/Lucky Pants in Trials and it got me my first ever flawless in Freelance.
My roll I’m happy with on the eyasluna. Steady hand HCS, Ricochet rounds, Rapid hit and kill clip. It’s a high stability gun off the bat and can hit like a train (when I actually git gud)
Maybe I’m a little biased, but I think dire could easily be s tier, if not at least A+. It’s just such a crisp hand cannon and opening shot and rangefinder make it insanely good
OH LORD Survivor's Epitaph. I got a rapid hit kill clip roll and it is SO good.Pairing that damage buff with something like an empowering rift just makes it all the better. I would highly recommend checking out that roll, it changed my perspective on the gun entirely.
AdvancedGG “Castle” 10% off & PLEASE GO SUB TO DIFFIZZLE, SEPARER, AND BENNY THEIR GAMEPLAY IS LITERALLY SO MUCH BETTER THAN MINE LOL: th-cam.com/users/iambennyshmurda / th-cam.com/users/separer / th-cam.com/channels/py9ckRxleSSRciniAhdnmA.html
I also put a video from each of their channels in the description.
❗️AdvancedGG Sponsorship❗️ 10% OFF WITH CODE CASTLE (advanced.gg/?ref=CASTLE) my fav flavors are Mango Splash and Triple Berry
where is discord link
Benny, the trashcan that 1v3s less skilled players and avoids the 1v3 vs a stacked squad callous. He just doesn't want to get shit on and have it be recorded.
already knew benny and difizzle, checked out seperer, stayed for his voice LUL
@@simplylethul are you much better than him ?
@@panini5733 it's funny that you didn't address the real issue, which is he 1v3s trashcans and refuses to vs a stacked squad. I'm a halo player and I play vs stacked teams every day. Benny, as I mentioned before, just doesn't want to get shit on anddddd the D2 community just wants easy lobbies every game, case and point, flawless pool, which is now on Sundays and many "pros" want it removed because it's too "sweaty." Imagine calling yourself a top player and then complain about playing vs other good players. 🤦♂️
The pacing of this video is so good, that not even the frequent interruptions for talking about the other guys or your ad break messed up your flow. That's excellent voice control and editing at work.
Thank you!
thank you sir 👍
Such an all star lineup on this one! Great video
patty your such an inspiration that your content itself is becoming meta
@@novahkiin4281 yep
Is there a controller player?
Talking about igneous being a stat monster, I think they just didn't want to balance it currently with alacrity being added to the trials weapons.
Using smallbore, ricochet, rapid hit, and elemental capacitor on arc with a range mw you could buff its stats to almost max in every category under the right circumstances but still incredibly high otherwise. With 4 rapid hit stacks and alacrity active you'd have 100 range, 100 stability, 91 handling, 100 reload, and 79 aim assist which would go up to 94 with two targeting mods.
Jesus christ
Shit is a monster. That thing shoots semi trucks
wtf
lmao
I got a extended barrel, ricochet, QuickDraw, elemental, reload MW igneous adept that I run with bottom tree goldy and adept reload for max impact, range, reload. or void with adept stability for max impact, range, stability. Or I’ll jus run adept icarus on stasis. Super well rounded definitely in my top 5 most valuable guns.
For Hawkmoon, definitely the Austroraptor ornament because it’s shortens the wings on the sight, and it’s just so good looking too
Yuppp
And the laser sight doesn't hurt up close 😉
and its literally not even obtainable in game at the moment...
@@shinybeast all ornaments are obtainable at any time. If you go into the detail screen on your Hawkmoon, and look at the ornaments and hover over the locked ones, it will give you the option to purchase any of them for 700 silver at any time
@@GloverGaming3 nope
My issue with Finite Impactor is that to maximize one of the stats, you have to seriously sacrifice another one, like with Iron reach, Iron Grip, literally anything else, while most hand cannons don't need you to do that
because finite impactor fucking sucks
@@devon5078 true and real
iron grip slide shot, all you need
It’s base stats just aren’t up to 140 standards a 180 with iron reach alone has more range than a finite impactor with full bore range mw iron reach and ricochet
Finite Impactor straight up needs free stat buffs to compete. Idk what Bungie is doing with it, its a RECENT 140 hc (top of the meta) losing badly vs weapons released 4 years ago lol.
Old D1 player here. Been out of the loop for 4 or five years but a few of these I have already and just trying to understand the perks and rolls again....especially on armor. Awesome video and thanks for taking the time and dedication.
Worth noting about Sturm - it was the only 120 that didn't have its recoil adjusted when 120s got their range buff a few seasons ago
man ive been watching separer for a while and he is indeed one of the most chill players ive ever seen
sad he hasnt uploaded in a while
To those just watching, 180's have been buffed since this video's release and are viable as it stands today, vulpecula with adagio can kill a guardian with 2 head, 1 body, survivors epitaph also has access to kill clip, use this information as you need
I know it's an old comment but I'm glad someone brought this up. Vulpecula is one of the few non exotic hand cannons I can do consistently well with. I'm glad Castle mentioned explosive payload too, because you can have any other perk on it and EP on a 180 buffed handcannon will hit you like a bus.
@@MegaDrain funnily enough i quit D2 sonce that comment with lightfall and bungies behaviour leading up to it being the main reason beyond crucible. That said, 180's sre something i've reccomended to a lot of people that say they cant use hand cannons, once you get to grips with a survivors epitaph or violated, picking up ace of spaces or another 140 is far less alien and easier to get a hold of
Thanks again for having me boss man
🍻
I love the team tierlist style! Well done you guys 💥
The sturm drang combo with nightstalker and either mechaneers tricksleeves or khepris sting is actually insanely strong. Smoke bombs are so good for priming and beating special weapon wielders in close range especially with the damage buff of khepris and then you have truesight to line up the sturm 2 tap after, and if youre low health the tricksleeves damage buff let you either 3 or 2 tap your opponent with drang which will usually out-ttk a fusion unless they pre-charge and it usually is quick enough to kill a shotgun user before they close the gap. The tricksleeves build is also really good with bottom tree arcstrider for that synergy with the combat meditation(?) Perk that gives you super fast ability recharge rates when youre low health
The fact that a lot of 180 handcannons have some awesome designs really makes me cry...
I remember before the Lumina got buffed and I refused to put it down. The stats were never the issue it was the fact healing teammates didn't heal you, in my opinion. It was honestly amazing in comp as long as you were the best player on the team and your teammates were still good but also using diff weapons like shotguns or snipers. It allowed 90rpm snipers to 1 shot body and you could easily time a heal on a shotgun rush for your teammate. People just never learned how to use it correctly. I also combined this with the trials SMG that had harmony (after a kill with your primary, switch to the smg for bonus dmg) So I would get a kill with lumina, switch to the smg while I had the noble round track to me, get an smg kill. Now when I killed with lumina a second time, I'd shoot it at a teammate for a double buff
I love that sunshot is getting that recognition, sunshot is top tier for so many reasons
It's hand cannon WMD.
Hawkmoon, the pay to win ornament is the Austroraptor and it is because it removes the obnoxious wings from the sides of the gun's sight. Well it is far less noticeable on that ornament, and the sights are so much cleaner compared to other ornaments. Next time it is for sale at Eververse, get it everyone. Good luck and love these collaboration vids.
I would like to see a video of every sidearms being ranked so I know if some of the sidearms I still have from back during Warmind are worth keeping and if any of them you could still get.
Very happy that nobody hates ace of spades… my favorite handcannon
It is simply goated
Back in the day, the Word of Crota, hand Canon was just like the Ikalos, but was a beast. Problem was, it's bulky.
i miss that weapon
What an absolute monster of a video. Incredible work man. I will be sending this to anyone asking about hand cannons.
The 'Austroraptor' ornament for Hawkmoon makes aiming down sights with Hawkmoon much cleaner, decreasing the size of the gun and sights, allowing the player to see more while ADSing.
Uhmm how much is that
the reason that thorn is so much more effective in the air is that it has about a 21 airborne effectiveness were as Ace of Spades has only a airborne effeteness of 14
Finite Impactor's best and honestly fun role is Hynra's slide shot focused fury role. Every time you slide, you add 2 bullets to your mag and it doesn't count as a reload. So, you can miss as many shots as you want, but if you slide instead of reloading, you get a free damage buff
I gotta say that the ikelos hand cannon feels really smooth on controller at least for me with my slideways high impact reserves roll it’s also got seraph rounds which is just insane imo
IKELOS has always been a little laser beam, v easy to use and flys under the radar.
@@RO_117 I expected a lot of backlash immediately but this is nice. It’ll be fun with the new 180 buff coming in I bet
The Legendary Hand Cannon is an absolute beast and this video taught me how to use it effectively. Now I feel unstoppable in every match!
Ouch my only disagreement was the Loud Lullaby. I have a really high range roll with kill clip/tunnel vision and it felt perfect for this last weekend in trials where most lanes were just out of that 140 hand cannon range. Also two tapping all those lorely titans abusing damage buffs was solid. Being in the kinetic also let me use lord of wolves to counter those damn renewal grasp duskfields.
I used aggresive pulses and bows. Wierdly my 90 range, 80 stability Insidious was worse than my 77 range, 70 stability Rangefinder Sacred Provenance..
@@GeoGyf I believe Rangefinder adds a flat percentage, and the range stat usually only adds 9-12 meters overall (from 0)(That's my running theory, anyway... mostly because I can't find a gun w/ 0 range, and I am extrapolating from what I've got). Like, a no perk/77 Range Insidious (Adept) hits at 38.27 meters while ADS (According to D2gunsmith). If I start adding Full bore, Accurized, and the +3 from the MW So it hits 100), I get 41.54 meters... That's a 3.27 meter distance. Which leads me to believe that for every +25 in the range bar = 3.5 - 4 meters. Someone smarter than me can check that math (since I am doing it in my head), and I have to stress that it's math that only applies to pulses because Destiny's menus like to say stats are more universal than they actually are.
Now, moving onto the Sacred Provenance: at 99 Range w/ Rangefinder, this one hits at 45.53 meters, using the same tool I mentioned above. Now, let's compare yours and see if it all adds up. Though, just by looking at this, the Range bar does matter (obviously), but Rangefinder is literally just extra range/zoom for largely no cost.
Sacred Provenance w/ Arrowhead and Ricochet (the most immediate combination that I could find to hit your two numbers there) hits at 38.27 meters at base w/o Rangefinder. W/ Rangefinder you hit 42.1 meters. Which is a 3.83(?) meter increase.
Insidious: The closest simulation I could get was 90 range/78 stability (w/corkscrew, Accurized, and a Stability mw), which gives us 40.12 meters. Which is overall worse. It's an extra 1.98 meters. Which I've found to be noticeable.
Hope this was at least somewhat helpful, given the 10-15 minutes I spent writing it out and doing the research lol.
@@someguy1365 Indeed the Insidious has Corscrew, Accurized, Stability mw, heating up, rampage. 93 recoil which might be one of the differences and weakness of that archetype, the 4th bullet veers slightly left (but then again my old Blast Furnace doesnt care so idk).
S.Provenace has arrowhead, ricochet, rangefinder, kill clip. Thats 100 recoil, but its more laser, the 4shots are more closely grouped.
But in reality, when i used them in Trials, S.Provenance was by far more accurate & could hit further distances. The damage perks werent really helpful in Trials however, i only posted them now for the sake of the discussion.
I have to add i'm old gen & maybe this explains something (we have more zoom which may help weapons or outright destroy them, idk how old gen zoom if even gives anything).
When i say destroy guns, smgs are very jumpy (ex tarrabah), especially Death Adder, which was unusuable until i got a Rangefinder roll along with a couple range barrels etc (has one of the lowest ranges in the game).
I have played with weapons on PC, its a night & day difference, little recoil, bloom etc. The videos of the youtubers highlighting "laser guns", most are just not possible on old gen..
Anywat, i used the pulses extensively on the Mercury Trials map (the one with the tube), and the common engagements were one enemy team at the right tunnel & enemies on the left of the small bridge-like gap or the right tunnel (there is a flag in Control/IB). And vice versa, although when i spawned middle i usually holded mid.
I had multiple Trials games as i went from 9 rank to 17 rank, so plenty of testing.
@@GeoGyf It's because of Arrowhead then. You only have 78 Recoil direction on your Insidious, which doesn't change the overall range, but it may give the illusion that the gun isn't as accurate at further ranges. Your Sacred Provenance has 100 RD, and that can REALLY help. I believe Castle has a video about the interactions of RD and Stability, and you largely only needing to hardcore spec into one of those stats, but it being nice to have a mix of them.
@@someguy1365 i have 93 recoil (CB mod) not 78 lol. On second thought, now that i have seen Gjerda's shotgun video, weapon barrel length still matters. Could also matter here
Unrelated, but really bad practice from Bungie not to change this hidden statistic, it seems the exotic ornaments are still pay to win since the barrel length matters.
I just started to play destiny 2 weeks ago, and attempted pvp for the first time last night. Im getting my ass beat pretty bad, but youre channel is giving me awesome tips! Thanks for the content, cant wait to learn more dude!
I miss using my fluted, accurized, surplus, explosive, range mw Bottom Dollar. Haven't used it a ton since 120s were meta but I still pull it from the vault from time to time.
You dog, I have been chasing that roll my whole life 😭
I've got rangefinder+explosive, rapid hit+explosive, and surplus+ eye of the storm rolls, all getting dusty in the vault 😅
@@ItsMeBliz I've got the rangefinder explosive but the gun just doesn't feel right with out surplus
One roll I don’t see very often on fatebringer is tunnel vision kill clip. The two perks work so well together and you can go on such a kill spree chaining the perks together making it almost impossible to miss a headshot
Probably don’t see it because timelost fatebringer is farmabale and guaranteed to roll with explosive payload, and while tunnel vision is a solid perk, explosive payload is way too good not to use. I do have a EP/kill clip roll though that is pretty nasty considering I haven’t gotten the eye of the storm or opening shot roll
Dear Castle Content, please, if not difficult, can you make a similar list with sniper rifles?
Maybe I will 👀
my first lighthouse weapon was an adept igneous with rapid hit-snapshot, people tell me that its bad but i just love it!, 1500 kills and still counting .
Rng has been great to me with the gambit hand cannon I’ve gotten maybe eight drops and 6-7 of them and They have been top-tier rolls
Same here about the rolls, I've had loads drop too I seemed to get them all the time after they buffed the drop rate.
Notes about the Sturm:
- Kills auto reload energy weapons, not just the Drang, so can be somewhat useful in some situations
- With Drang, it doesn't overcharge Sturm's next shot per kill in the standard way; It refills the entire mag and then adds an overcharged shot. This stacks 99 times so you can end up with a 111 (12 base, 99 empowered) shot Sturm if you can pull it off. Highly unlikely in PvP but very fun in PvE.
Fantastic video 👍 I am surprised that you didn’t factor reload speed into this tier list because for 120s (I’m thinking of steady hand) I think the reload can hinder it
I know you can use mods and exotics to increase this but nonetheless
Nice to see another Castle upload! I wholeheartedly agree with the Lumina ranking
23:30
You say Finite Impactor is hard to get, but along with Occluded Finality, it's the main weapon I always get, just constantly, from turning in tokens. It's always gonna be armor, Finite Impactor, or Occluded Finality, which doesn't make me happy, because I want literally every other Iron Banner weapon over those two.
Seriously, thank you for making this vid. I see so many content creators making vids for trash weapons, calling them "INSANE", when they're actually mediocre at best.
When Calus and the Leviathan return this year, Austringer most likely will return as well. Can’t wait.
where did they say the leviathan returns? did i miss a twab
@@viviolet7 if you did vox obscura and paid attention to certain dialogue in the seasonal story, they pretty much confirm Calus and the Leviathan is returning. Caiatl and Zavala want to kill him. Mainly Caiatl.
My Eyasluna is my favorite HC right now. Fastdraw, Hi Cal, Rangefinder, Snapshot, Stability Masterwork. With 80 stability it really does feel so good and my crit percentage shows at almost 70%
Ah yes, some more Content with which I can build a Castle of knowledge
(Edit) 4:34 WHAAAAAT!? Not the HC, the map usage
I loved Igneous Hammer, but ever since I got a True Prophecy with RF and EP, it's become my trusty pocket sniper with how high the range gets.
Finite lacks Stability and Range
I would try to land shots and it kicks as your shooting a gun too close to the face.
I can argue that its c-tier if you play in its intended ranges with max stability perks without hurting stats,
And go killing wind with elemental capacitor on void for stability (and maybe stasis for recoil direction and have max strafe speed)
Yet again why would you choose Finite when you can use its older sister Cantata-57 or its spicy cousin Annual Skate
Both easier to get and better in every way
Recommended MW:Stability
(You can go range but I wouldn't recommend it)
Edit:Minor spelling fixes
Shouldn’t it be older sister since it’s the older sister frame.
@@zekuel_u41 Edited :)
Damn bro you actually sound pretty chill and this video gave me info about which perks to choose when roll hunting, great watch.
Thank you! Let me know if any other videos helped out, I’m trying to learn new topics to cover and which ones work for new viewers - cheers 🍻
Has anyone ever tried putting on the full auto mod on any of the hand cannons? just curious because I put it on my 180s just for fun and it actually made a noticeable difference.
It’s fun doing that so you don’t have to spam your trigger button
I still love my Dire Promise. I have a Nice roll with steady hand sight, armor piercing, opening shot, range finder, and a range MW. It never leaves my inventory.
My favorites are Cantata, Judgement, Ace and Hawkmoon. They all feel amazing to me. Last Word needs an adjustment though. And Crimson should get a flinch output nerf.
agreed. crimson flinches way too much
Ngl my judgement with encore and adagio feels kinda dirty with inertia override. Two taps at max range
Don’t touch Last Word.
@@Billy-ld1im I agree with not touching it for now. It’s definitely extremely powerful but last word performs very well in a significantly smaller range window than other meta hand cannons. It’s not all that difficult to outplay if you know someone has it. I use a variety of hand cannons and enjoy the last word, but with fusions in their current state, I haven’t found it to be all that enjoyable because you can get one shot at your max damage range
Vulpecula is my most consistent gun, I have more crucible kills with it than Ace and i've had it for a fraction of the time. Yet for whatever reason everyone else seems to hate it.
List was dope, but I was more excited to see diffizzle. I love watching this dudes stream, listening to him bag people so hard kills me everytime 😂.
He’s amazing man
I'm a handcannon fanatic always looking for a good one to equip as my forever weapon. Love vids like this
Vulpecula is honestly a good PvE Weapon.
Especially with Explosive Payload.
Phenomenal vid! And in the future, we would love to hear snippets of you and these creators commenting and debating as y’all ranked the weapons in real time. you made them seem so hype I just wanted to get to know them a little more without having to leave the video.
Ya that’s amazing feedback. Definitely gonna try it next time
Erianas vow?
Requires special ammo
@@CastleContent ah ok I see thx
Midnight Coup is my favorite Hand Cannon and wish it made the 2.0 list
the austroraptor ornament for hawkmoon is pay to win due to the clearer reticle and the two green nodes on the sight that make it easier to see your target (imo)
Vulpecula might actually be my fav handcannon. I will always attest that a gun you feel comfortable with will always perform better than a gun that you use just because it’s “meta”
My go-to roll is an explosive payload/outlaw, and maybe it’s because of the higher rate of fire, maybe it’s because most people don’t prepare for an engagement against someone using a 180rpm handcannon, but this gun changed my crucible experience forever
Exactly
Use whatever you like, but to the point you make about using what you’re comfortable with…some weapons or archetypes require a little more time to get comfortable with, but the reward can be massive. 180s are far easier to use than 140s, but the versatility, range, and TTK of 140s will always outclass 180s. You can always choose to use what you enjoy, but put some time into other weapons and see if they start to click after a while
31:22 Thorn has 7 more AE than Ace, which is around half of Icarus grip
I personally think Malf should be a little higher due to its niche reliability against high DR builds (Renewals, Stag, Bastions, Rime, Icefalls, etc) as well as reliable super killing, but a great list overall. Good work
A little unfair on the frontiers cry, c tier would fit it but overall good job on the video👍. Really enjoyed seeing multiple people ranking the tiers together
Maybe I’m weird but I love this gun
@@isaiahburden5208 I love the gun as well, reminds me when I used trust to grind my way for lunas howl
Yeah, last word is so strong on console, it’s genuinely beyond me how it’s been this strong for this long. Like no primary can compete in a 1v1. It needs to be at least 4 tap to the head to be remotely balanced.
No. Less aim assist.
Regarding Finite Impactor: one perk combo that saves it is slideways + focus fury. When you slide to reload bullets, it does NOT reset the shot count for focus fury. That means you can prock the damage buff in pvp without even scoring a kill, and you can miss as many shots as you like. Probably a blast to mess with in 6v6
malfeasance with a full fireteam is one of the most fun adventures you will ever have
Sterm looks like han solos blaster and no one can change my mind
I know Seperar more personally than the other two, and I gotta tell ya, the way he plays is unlike any other Destiny player I've ever seen.
Thank you for this vid
Hi there. Sorry I’m late on this somehow didn’t get the notification. Thx so much for the tip.
@@CastleContent NP dude, thank you for an awesome vid 😁
Great video the Catana is a nightmare to control! Harsh on the Malfeasance
Loved the video. Would be amazing if you did another one of these for pulse rifles in the future!
I can’t replace my Eyesluna that thing is my heart and soul in crucible. I think that the way the Fatebringer recoils just feels wierd on controller, like after you shoot the reticle just feels wrong but Eyesluna just feels like everything a handcannon should be 🥹
Edit: Austringer is back. My Eyesluna has since been replaced…
Weird, I’m on mnk and it’s the opposite for me. Fatebringer feels like butter but eyesluna has a weird feeling for me. Interesting
@@english103channel I’ve heard eyasluna feels like it has more bloom or is just less consistent on MnK. I play controller and love both weapons, though I do think a perfectly rolled timelost fatebringer is better than eyasluna no matter the input. Really comes down to preference because both are top tier options with great perk selections
@@colbyclay5911 I have another different experience :D fatebringer feels kinda wierd for me on pc, just the sight I feel like it limit me a lot. But luna is god teir for some reason. I thought it is stability, but I have that hight on fatebringer too. But I just have constant 3 taps with luna, I feel like I cant miss.
I love how good the Survivor's Epitaph feels and looks ❤️
I love how you put 180s in a short summary.
"It can be good...
If you can get a kill in the first place and proc a damage perk"
180s make me so depressed at their state rn, they just suck so much compared to any other handcannon ttk. It especially sucks because i love that intrinsic icarus and high stability, but they just dont have the ttk to actually duel someone and not have to rely on them missing or fucking up in some way
The last word being the last hand cannon to be reviewed. Yesssssssss
I used to rock 140's but they never really did it for me, and ironically I pulled out nature and it rocked for me. And I eventually in beyond light swapped to Outlaw Headstone Vulpecula. I am the opposite of you, I'm fairly accurate with 140s but I'm an auto rifle main at my core and am used to low recoil autos and I don't really suffer from an over correction situation so I naturally dink people hard. Of course, the biggest play for me is if it's fun and it's super fun for both pve and PvP and gambit.
Eysaluna with unrelenting kill clip is nasty, going from engagement to engagement healed and damage boosted is mega helpful and has major game making potential
I really like Vulpecula, it looks good and feels like it simply does not miss in PVE
Great video, bro! I love Igneous with opening shot 🤛🏼
This is awesome! I love your informative videos. If it weren't for you I wouldn't have put anything into Resilience
As a Loud Lulllaby main, I am sadddened.
However, I totallly understand. For me, I love the odddballl aesthetics of it, and the unique sights especiallly strike my fancy.
Also love my Tunnnel Vision/Killl Clip rolll, haha
Annual skate for pvp is so good. Reload masterwork, outlaw and dragonfly 🤤
I love dire, I'll die the hill that it's the best hand cannon in the game for pvp. It just feels so good, the sound, the recoil, the sights, goddamn i love it
Maybe its just me playing with it for so long, but i have a 84% hs with Dire, and all my other 140s sit around 72-76%hs
They probably rated some perks a bit higher than others (ex. Quickdraw on Steady Hand).
I agree even after using eyasluna and fatebringer i still prefer dire 100%
Good stuff as always Castle!!!
Still wish Vulp was better it has a nice look
What shotgun is he using? It’s nuts!!
Dude, I went into a comp match in crucible with an Ikelos Cannon, and absolutely swept with the pre-sunset
I have to say, my fave recently is Cantata, I got EOTS/MT max range and it duels like a dream, I'm not a recoil direction crazy person, maybe cuz I'm on M&K, but that HC is gotta be my fave.
I have a small bore, accurized rounds, quickdraw explosive payload bottom dollar with a range masterwork that made me understand that sometimes we can have too much range because that kick is something else
When taking about Posterity sounds like you’re trying to sell drugs with the Loreley Splendor helm
I wasn't expecting my Main gun to be ranked second. I absolutely love Crimson. it gives me the feel of a pulse rifle. without actually having to use my pulse rifles lol.
1:15 “… this is an imitation of the Red Death …” imitation is a good word for it lmao
I just miss Red Death man, was my beloved in D1, and as a pulse, it could feel good on all inputs whereas Crimson feels like utter garbage unless you’re on controller (and even then, its horrendous viewkick blocking your view of your target could be annoying to a player on any input/platform)
Edit: neat, I actually didn’t know about those ornament/FOV combos! It’s just kinda a screwup on Bungie’s part that we have to go to such lengths just to fix a problem the gun shouldn’t have imo, but all the same this is a good find until when/if they do fix it.
They did Red Death dirty when they changed its archetype though. Not gonna lie. Should have stayed a high impact/low RoF.
Sunshot has always been my favorite even without the catalyst and after finally finishing the catalyst after coming back to destiny after years of not playing I finally got it and mannnnnn it makes it a different breed of good lol
I grabbed an Eyasluna with sureshot and steadyhand, whichever I want at the time. Other than that High cal, rangefinder, snapshot, and range mw. I love it.
Great video! I think it would be sort of interesting for people to include blue hand cannons (and other blue weapons) to see how they rank just for fun
I don't like hand cannons, but I love this video. Gave me a reason do dust off my True Prophecy, Posterity, Eyasluna and Hawkmoon again and sling them back into their holsters.
I hope there are more of these for weapon types, because this was the most awesome tier-listing videos that I willingly sat through to listen to.
Thank you guys all very much for the time spent with these!
Might be a bit late but just because the hand cannon is S tier (same goes for everything not just hand cannons) doesn't instantly mean it'll work for you.
@@cheesybeans9476 Yeah, I realized that a couple months after I made this comment, but I do appreciate you reminding me that not every S-tier is the same for everyone. 😅
Honestly, about a month ago, I found the only handcannon I genuinely like is Cantata and Seraph Officer Revolver (coincidentally enough).
@@TheMrMayo yeah I've learned I seem to prefer 180rpms on general tbh. Did they get a buff?
@@cheesybeans9476 Yup. And it's been a lot nicer to use them with (though, I don't know about PvP, since I'm a PvE'er).
@@TheMrMayo yeah I usually do PvE, only do PvP for the gear or if I'm bored but if u want a good PvP 180, malfeasance has like, ascended into god hood and the iron banner one, despite what was said in the video, actually kinda slaps if you managed to get one. Other than that survivors epitaph is ok but I'd recommend the other w first
This is amazing castle, especially adding so many creators! Nice vid.
Glad you enjoyed!
Wish we got the raw discussion between all four of you
Definitely keeping this feedback for next time. Thank you for letting me know.
Crimil’s Dagger had such solid perks and doesn’t deserve to be that low. The only problem is it hasn’t been available for a very long time so people make due with the consolation prize Steady Hand which i always felt weaker
It's fair to say that using any of these with Lucky Pants pushes them up a full category. I've been using Sunshot/Lucky Pants in Trials and it got me my first ever flawless in Freelance.
sturm goes crazy, only one i think yall underrated
My roll I’m happy with on the eyasluna. Steady hand HCS, Ricochet rounds, Rapid hit and kill clip. It’s a high stability gun off the bat and can hit like a train (when I actually git gud)
Maybe I’m a little biased, but I think dire could easily be s tier, if not at least A+. It’s just such a crisp hand cannon and opening shot and rangefinder make it insanely good
Agreed I tried eyasluna and fatebringer but went back to dire as it just feels so much better, glad to see someone Agrees with me
OH LORD Survivor's Epitaph. I got a rapid hit kill clip roll and it is SO good.Pairing that damage buff with something like an empowering rift just makes it all the better. I would highly recommend checking out that roll, it changed my perspective on the gun entirely.