I know a guy that ran a very successful motorcycle shop over 40 yrs that used honing stones to bore 2 strokes and 4 strokes alike. He would start by getting the new piston measurement. This method can be very destructive for someone not skilled in keeping tolerances the same and not egg shaping etc a cylinder
I call BS. Anyone who ran a "successful" shop would not be successful if they wasted time using the wrong tools, and wasn't bright enough to figure it out after 40 years.
They do make a manual hone for this purpose. It is cauld a ridged hone.differant sizes.differant stone grit. What you are using is a deglazing hone. Wrong .works ok for std bore or the same oversize bore.but not for 10 thousand metal removal
Well, this has been a long project. We shot this video back in December. We just finished the bike up in the pas month. We've been riding it for a few weeks and everything is great. No smoke (I mean it does puff a little every now and then but no more than two other friends of mine who had their cylinders bored professionally). The key is taking your time and measuring often...
There would have been taper in the cylinder when you measured the wear in the bores. With a spring-loaded hone it would be more difficult than with a rigid hone but by spending more time wherever you need to remove more material you can even it out without trimming the stones. I worked in a small decades ago and we didn't have all the fancy machines they have now and even with a rigid hone we still had to even out the bores. Nice job!
Faster if you keep constantly drenching the stones down to remove the lifted iron particles; gasoline is the best, but mostly impossible,too dangerous(i do it in certain conditions); i use a plastic (coke) bottle with a 2mm hole on the cap,and filled with water and a lot of dish detergent, and i keep pouring it down all the time,this keeps the stones clean,and they cut better; i only ever used this to erase deep scratches,enlarging the diameter up to .005 in. max; new rings take care of it, after a while,but we know it will be a noisy motor; as reliable as new,but noisy; to go to the next size i have never done it like that, i take them to the machine shop; but if you got it nice and round, and in size, perfect,it was worth the challenge; the bore gauge and the mike for the piston are the key.
Sir just a quick question about reboring, I want to rebore my scooter by only .25, should I replace my piston and ring size? Or only replace the piston ring by .25 and keep the piston the same size? Thanks
FBI Open Up A machinist will decide how much the cylinder needs bored during the boring process based on how much boring it takes to get rid of the damage. He’ll tell you what size piston and rings you need or he can order them.
I'm trying to the similar thing on a Briggs & Stratton quantum(aluminum bore) engine . Was getting frustrated that the lower part of the cylinder was smaller. I am trying to install a .020 over piston and will use your technique of making the hone smaller. Thanks for sharing this.
That is Not reboreing it is just honeing. The bore Cannot possible be concentric an you could not take enough metal off unless the bore was so worn it was near to the oversized piston. So you will at best have a oval bore now, that is a different size throughout its length. Have you ever even seen a Cylinder Boreing Machine? You can bore out a single cylinder engine barrel in a Lathe, but not a multicylinder one, thats why Cylinder Block Boreing Machines exist! You now have simply reduced a engine to scrap.
The title of this video should be "how to ruin your cylinders". I watched it for the entertainment factor. I pity those who don't realize that this guy is a Bozo. The price of the bore gauge and hones were more than the cost of having it done properly.
Time waistng procedure, just get it bored and finished to size, draging a hone up and down a barrel 40,000 times dosnt make sense nor will it ever give you the correct size or bore finish .
pro tip to anybody doing this at home, when you BORE out and engine you need a BORING head on a mill to do it properly. hence the difference in terms of BORING and HONING
You have skills with measuring instruments for sure, but the main issue is a hand hone is to much human and to little machine to make a machine ? When the measurements along the bore showed a variances , you adjusted things for a round cylinder hole but how is it perpendicular ? Or how critical does that have to be ?
Coo, that takes me back a bit. First cylinder I ever bored was a CD175. It was around 1974 and I've done a lot of motors since then. I don't remember what pistons I used, I think maybe C90 but that may have been a later 'conversion'. BTW, your honing to size, boring is a cutting operation not a grinding operation. You found the problem with a brake hone, cylinder hones hold stones parallel. You just use a spring hone to your advantage by using the angular movement to hit the high points. If you tighten the spring all the way it puts more pressure on arms and cuts faster I know your not trained but why are you holding DTI plunger down with your thumb? It will give a false reading.
Absolutely crazy. Must have taken weeks and that bore will never be round or accurate. For the sake of taking it to a proper machine shop and paying a guy to do it properly its not worth the risk of ruining a salvagble barrel.
This isn't boring , it's honing ! A ball brush hone would be a better way for any rookie to get a crosshatch pattern that would stand a fair chance of seating some new rings for awhile anyway. No replacement for doing it write though.
@@milesandhours2076 , haaa haaaa, I hear you , was just trying to make the point - boring is refered to typically in industry as using a boring bar , or boring head in a lathe , mill, or special boring machine . But yah I've done different kinds of honing , comes a point we're it gets silly if you try and hone to much ! Give you an A for effort though ! Keep on keeping on !!!
Extremely tight budget build?. I used to rebuild a few engines a month on the side. I would take the cylinder, Piston, and rings to the machine shop a few miles away. Just needed to tell them the ring end gap. They would clean, bore, and hone for like $50 or less for a single cylinder. (Shop Price). But hey nice video and effort. Awesome if it all worked out. 👍🏻
@@milesandhours2076 Lots of Pakistany, Lithuenian, Bulgarian videos of ultra basic home/ workshop operations that us wetserners think you need a $2 million CMC machine to perform the task. Not so !. I love to see the problem solving.
Were the cylinders still pretty round before honing? I have several older Briggs engines and they've worn the cylinders oblong. Will honing take that out or do I just need to bore it?
It really depends on how oblong they are. You'd have to run the hone as fast as you can so it'd have less pressure on the high sides and hit the low spots with force. IMO I'd call around your local machine shops and competent mechanics to see if any of them would be willing to bore it for cheap for you.
My cylinders were round within spec... just worn a bit outside the range of just doing rings. I wouldn't really recommend this technique, it does work, but it is a massive amount of effort and for the money you are better off getting a machine shop to do it. But I did it to see if I could... and it did work fine.
I'm not sure... I think the control of the hand drill is a good thing... and I was constantly stopping to check progress so setting it up and taking it out of the drill press repeatedly would be frustrating I think... might be worth a try. Honestly - next time I'll pay to have it done. I just wanted to see if I could do it.
nice job, my cylinder has more scratch. They just used sandpaper for honing. The top cylinder more loose then the bottom. Work perfectly, no smoke and engine oil keep in engine.
You are not boring a cylinder, what you are doing is honing with a glaze buster hone. glaze buster will only follow a contour it will not work. crosshatch is also the wrong angle.
It got the job done. I hone mechanical tubing for hydraulic cylinders for a living and we use stones to remove .010" - .250" out of 24' tubing. Same method I just use larger equipment.
@@tonywright8294 Honing is not "geometry changing operation", honing serves a "surface preparation" for two meeting surfaces allowing better "adapting to each other".
Augie, We did the engine work back in December of 2018. We didn't start riding the bike until July... this has been a long build. We will certainly be making a video showing the bike running.
My shop near me kp motorcycles he charged me £20 for rebore that's if you source the piston yourself. best honeing tool is the ones that look more like a bog Brush Lol or them indian made ones but they are like £70 or something like mabe more
A 'ball hone' is for the plateau finish after cylinder is honed to size. It's totally useless for trying to size anything as it conforms to any irregularities like taper or out of round. I taught people to bore and hone cylinders, 2 classes a day for over 3 years. (Motorcycle Mechanics Institute , Orlando Florida)
@@1crazypj yes definitely would take to the bike shop myself to get it done but credit to the guy in the video for taking time & doing it with the horneing tool i wish i had hes subscribers has ive only just starting on video's myself
This is the tool I had the best luck with due to the small bore www.homedepot.com/p/Lisle-3-Stone-Brake-Cylinder-Hone-10000/306763211?mtc=Shopping-BA-F_HC-G-D25T-25_31_GARAGE_AUTOMOTIVE-NA-NA-Feed-PLA-NA-NA-Auto_RLSA&cm_mmc=Shopping-BA-F_HC-G-D25T-25_31_GARAGE_AUTOMOTIVE-NA-NA-Feed-PLA-NA-NA-Auto_RLSA-71700000037147753-58700004141485307-92700048672352091&gclid=Cj0KCQiAsbrxBRDpARIsAAnnz_OSOicugSlkM61dug7e_aOZiiEj9TJW7GCtvqB8GRuglC0NKUpGeZAaAhzmEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
I found a small brake hone worked best: www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7769226?cid=paidsearch_shopping_dcoe_google&gclid=CjwKCAjwnef6BRAgEiwAgv8mQVeZ8BI9vapg9DU_fk8If1YY5LBBjrL2c_Mcmvz9rDroyk289453jRoCdmkQAvD_BwE
Ridges and valleys galore in that cylinder using them cheap made lawnmower style hones which arent for boring ... You may fool the lesser knowledge base but not someone who knows this art in and out... One half ass job if I ever seen it...
Hey Ray... I understand this isn't the most accurate way to do this... but this is not a race motor... it is BARELY more than a lawn mower motor... and 600 miles on the bike and it is running strong... I'm having fun with the bike and that is what it is all about.
Videos like this should be deleted the bore will never be round and people watching this will get the idea that they can do it and it is far from the way it should be done
Sorry Glenn, this is a simple project not a high performance race machine... the bike runs great and I've ridden it hundreds of miles... I know this was the hard way, and there are much better, more accurate, and even cost effective ways to do this... but I had fun, it totally worked and that is a big win in my book!
Hi, man. Very good job! I have an Arctic cat Cougar 440 tell me if you know if you can waste cylinder liners? If it is possible to up to what size? 70 mm? For example?. Will the cylinder wall be too thin
Using a hone like I did the process is so SLOW that it would be hard to get wrong. I'm sure you could screw up a cylinder... but you would have to mess up pretty bad. It is a painfully slow process.
I'll just pay the machine shop $50
Boring and Honing are different!
This isn't boring but is still boring.
I know a guy that ran a very successful motorcycle shop over 40 yrs that used honing stones to bore 2 strokes and 4 strokes alike. He would start by getting the new piston measurement. This method can be very destructive for someone not skilled in keeping tolerances the same and not egg shaping etc a cylinder
I call BS. Anyone who ran a "successful" shop would not be successful if they wasted time using the wrong tools, and wasn't bright enough to figure it out after 40 years.
I have a guy that does it for 40 bucks a hole. Then it measures even up and down.
20$ and it takes 15 minutes 👍
Lose the really annoying music
They do make a manual hone for this purpose. It is cauld a ridged hone.differant sizes.differant stone grit. What you are using is a deglazing hone. Wrong .works ok for std bore or the same oversize bore.but not for 10 thousand metal removal
That must have been a LOT of honing to get that much material removed. But, I LOVE the "can do" attitude! Whatever it takes-make it happen!
wont work, cylinder will be out of round. I tried this and the motor smoked like bogart
Well, this has been a long project. We shot this video back in December. We just finished the bike up in the pas month. We've been riding it for a few weeks and everything is great. No smoke (I mean it does puff a little every now and then but no more than two other friends of mine who had their cylinders bored professionally). The key is taking your time and measuring often...
Even I did it too, but never had problem, the key is lots of measurement and a correct type of cylinder hone heavy duty one.
There would have been taper in the cylinder when you measured the wear in the bores. With a spring-loaded hone it would be more difficult than with a rigid hone but by spending more time wherever you need to remove more material you can even it out without trimming the stones. I worked in a small decades ago and we didn't have all the fancy machines they have now and even with a rigid hone we still had to even out the bores. Nice job!
Faster if you keep constantly drenching the stones down to remove the lifted iron particles; gasoline is the best, but mostly impossible,too dangerous(i do it in certain conditions); i use a plastic (coke) bottle with a 2mm hole on the cap,and filled with water and a lot of dish detergent, and i keep pouring it down all the time,this keeps the stones clean,and they cut better; i only ever used this to erase deep scratches,enlarging the diameter up to .005 in. max; new rings take care of it, after a while,but we know it will be a noisy motor; as reliable as new,but noisy; to go to the next size i have never done it like that, i take them to the machine shop; but if you got it nice and round, and in size, perfect,it was worth the challenge; the bore gauge and the mike for the piston are the key.
Those are made for honing, not increasing the bore. There’s nothing to keep the bore round.
Sir just a quick question about reboring, I want to rebore my scooter by only .25, should I replace my piston and ring size? Or only replace the piston ring by .25 and keep the piston the same size?
Thanks
FBI Open Up A machinist will decide how much the cylinder needs bored during the boring process based on how much boring it takes to get rid of the damage. He’ll tell you what size piston and rings you need or he can order them.
itll get it close enough towhat a machine will do, u can even use plastic spoons with sand glued to them.....
Rob c 😂
@@Roberto-er5ow thats some ichiban moto shit hahaha.
I'm trying to the similar thing on a Briggs & Stratton quantum(aluminum bore) engine . Was getting frustrated that the lower part of the cylinder was smaller. I am trying to install a .020 over piston and will use your technique of making the hone smaller. Thanks for sharing this.
That is Not reboreing it is just honeing. The bore Cannot possible be concentric an you could not take enough metal off unless the bore was so worn it was near to the oversized piston. So you will at best have a oval bore now, that is a different size throughout its length. Have you ever even seen a Cylinder Boreing Machine?
You can bore out a single cylinder engine barrel in a Lathe, but not a multicylinder one, thats why Cylinder Block Boreing Machines exist!
You now have simply reduced a engine to scrap.
The title of this video should be "how to ruin your cylinders". I watched it for the entertainment factor. I pity those who don't realize that this guy is a Bozo. The price of the bore gauge and hones were more than the cost of having it done properly.
Thanks Nat... obviously this is the hard way... it did totally work and I had fun in the process so that is a win in my book.
@@milesandhours2076 Thanks for the polite reply to my rude comment. I'm glad it worked for you and that it wasn't a V16.
That’s the best boring thing I’ve seen all day. Thanks.
Time waistng procedure, just get it bored and finished to size, draging a hone up and down a barrel 40,000 times dosnt make sense nor will it ever give you the correct size or bore finish .
is normal for the cylider to be wider at the top because of the piston rings ....
pro tip to anybody doing this at home, when you BORE out and engine you need a BORING head on a mill to do it properly. hence the difference in terms of BORING and HONING
Correct, this video is not a good thing to do, could cost more in the long run
In my shop I use a specific "cylinder boring machine" and then Honing machine. But yes with proper set-up and technique it sure can be done on a mill.
Thumbs down on that annoying background noise.
You have skills with measuring instruments for sure, but the main issue is a hand hone is to much human and to little machine to make a machine ? When the measurements along the bore showed a variances , you adjusted things for a round cylinder hole but how is it perpendicular ? Or how critical does that have to be ?
So how do you calculate the piston to wall clearance
Did you manage to set a constant piston to wall clearance with this method on both cylinders? If so within what tolerance of each other?
lisle 15000 hone
Coo, that takes me back a bit.
First cylinder I ever bored was a CD175.
It was around 1974 and I've done a lot of motors since then.
I don't remember what pistons I used, I think maybe C90 but that may have been a later 'conversion'.
BTW, your honing to size, boring is a cutting operation not a grinding operation.
You found the problem with a brake hone, cylinder hones hold stones parallel. You just use a spring hone to your advantage by using the angular movement to hit the high points. If you tighten the spring all the way it puts more pressure on arms and cuts faster
I know your not trained but why are you holding DTI plunger down with your thumb? It will give a false reading.
Absolutely crazy. Must have taken weeks and that bore will never be round or accurate. For the sake of taking it to a proper machine shop and paying a guy to do it properly its not worth the risk of ruining a salvagble barrel.
This isn't boring , it's honing ! A ball brush hone would be a better way for any rookie to get a crosshatch pattern that would stand a fair chance of seating some new rings for awhile anyway. No replacement for doing it write though.
Since I took .5mm off... it was boring with a hone a bunch of work to be sure - won't do it this way again!
@@milesandhours2076 , haaa haaaa, I hear you , was just trying to make the point - boring is refered to typically in industry as using a boring bar , or boring head in a lathe , mill, or special boring machine . But yah I've done different kinds of honing , comes a point we're it gets silly if you try and hone to much ! Give you an A for effort though ! Keep on keeping on !!!
This is honing not boring.
Wrong 100% terrible job
Can this tool be used to enlarge the piston bore to increase the piston diameter?
No it’s against the law
thats what hes doing bellend
Extremely tight budget build?. I used to rebuild a few engines a month on the side. I would take the cylinder, Piston, and rings to the machine shop a few miles away. Just needed to tell them the ring end gap. They would clean, bore, and hone for like $50 or less for a single cylinder. (Shop Price). But hey nice video and effort. Awesome if it all worked out. 👍🏻
The money was a small influence on the decision to do it this way... mostly I just wanted to do it myself.
@@milesandhours2076 awesome. Got to try things for yourself once in a while.
@@milesandhours2076 Lots of Pakistany, Lithuenian, Bulgarian videos of ultra basic home/ workshop operations that us wetserners think you need a $2 million CMC machine to perform the task. Not so !. I love to see the problem solving.
Nice finish.
You need to do your homework before making a video.
It totally worked... I put 600 miles on it after it was done. One of these days I'll get the video(s) up to show the finished bike.
This video just got you a new sub ! Thanks for posting and teaching
Were the cylinders still pretty round before honing? I have several older Briggs engines and they've worn the cylinders oblong. Will honing take that out or do I just need to bore it?
It really depends on how oblong they are. You'd have to run the hone as fast as you can so it'd have less pressure on the high sides and hit the low spots with force.
IMO I'd call around your local machine shops and competent mechanics to see if any of them would be willing to bore it for cheap for you.
My cylinders were round within spec... just worn a bit outside the range of just doing rings. I wouldn't really recommend this technique, it does work, but it is a massive amount of effort and for the money you are better off getting a machine shop to do it. But I did it to see if I could... and it did work fine.
This is a bad idea. Bore with a boring bar and finish with a hone. This is only a good idea if you live in the Congo and have no machine tools
Would a drill press have gotten better results? This, of course, assumes the work and check are square.
I'm not sure... I think the control of the hand drill is a good thing... and I was constantly stopping to check progress so setting it up and taking it out of the drill press repeatedly would be frustrating I think... might be worth a try. Honestly - next time I'll pay to have it done. I just wanted to see if I could do it.
So the TL:DW version is this is not boring, and no you can't bore with a drill. I just save you 5:02.
Parabens estes comentarios ai negativos saos pesssoas que nao entende de nada porque este procedimento dar certo sim...parabens
Could you please help me finding this honing tool ? What is price /single.
lol ,real back yard stuff ,do it right first time ,pay for bore an hone ,good luck
Omg I was having that problem when it was boring unevenly.
Yekshmash Gret success
nice job, my cylinder has more scratch. They just used sandpaper for honing. The top cylinder more loose then the bottom. Work perfectly, no smoke and engine oil keep in engine.
My engine does smoke some when started cold. but I can live with it. Good compression and runs very strong.
@@milesandhours2076 smoking on cold starts could be in the valve guides and or valve seals.
cylinder out of round .it must have taken a very long time
it's honing not boring. two different operations.
You are not boring a cylinder, what you are doing is honing with a glaze buster hone. glaze buster will only follow a contour it will not work. crosshatch is also the wrong angle.
Not a good idea unless you want an out of round uneven cylinder, get it done properly.
Awesome!
I do not place negative comments, but this is like trying to use a sandpaper to re-bore an engine.
What’s wrong with that ?
@@tonywright8294 The tool intended for honing is totally inadequate to do this job.
It got the job done. I hone mechanical tubing for hydraulic cylinders for a living and we use stones to remove .010" - .250" out of 24' tubing. Same method I just use larger equipment.
@@jamesjackson4224 Just to be a little bit funny... it is possible to cut a lawn with scissors too, but it is totally misused tool for a purpose
@@tonywright8294 Honing is not "geometry changing operation", honing serves a "surface preparation" for two meeting surfaces allowing better "adapting to each other".
Why don’t you show the pistons in the engine if it worked?
Augie, We did the engine work back in December of 2018. We didn't start riding the bike until July... this has been a long build. We will certainly be making a video showing the bike running.
Augie Salom they did at the end of the video lol
My shop near me kp motorcycles he charged me £20 for rebore that's if you source the piston yourself. best honeing tool is the ones that look more like a bog Brush Lol or them indian made ones but they are like £70 or something like mabe more
A 'ball hone' is for the plateau finish after cylinder is honed to size. It's totally useless for trying to size anything as it conforms to any irregularities like taper or out of round.
I taught people to bore and hone cylinders, 2 classes a day for over 3 years. (Motorcycle Mechanics Institute , Orlando Florida)
@@1crazypj yes definitely would take to the bike shop myself to get it done but credit to the guy in the video for taking time & doing it with the horneing tool i wish i had hes subscribers has ive only just starting on video's myself
Cool music
The only reason more people don't do this is a 30 overbore would take forever and a 60 forget about it.
That and it usually makes things worse. I fix many cylinders a year that were honed like this.
what the tool name?
cylinder hone/honing tool
This is the tool I had the best luck with due to the small bore www.homedepot.com/p/Lisle-3-Stone-Brake-Cylinder-Hone-10000/306763211?mtc=Shopping-BA-F_HC-G-D25T-25_31_GARAGE_AUTOMOTIVE-NA-NA-Feed-PLA-NA-NA-Auto_RLSA&cm_mmc=Shopping-BA-F_HC-G-D25T-25_31_GARAGE_AUTOMOTIVE-NA-NA-Feed-PLA-NA-NA-Auto_RLSA-71700000037147753-58700004141485307-92700048672352091&gclid=Cj0KCQiAsbrxBRDpARIsAAnnz_OSOicugSlkM61dug7e_aOZiiEj9TJW7GCtvqB8GRuglC0NKUpGeZAaAhzmEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
Could you stop with the music.
You have volume control... :)
Really well made video!
Thanks Jeremie
What kind of tools ?
I found a small brake hone worked best: www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7769226?cid=paidsearch_shopping_dcoe_google&gclid=CjwKCAjwnef6BRAgEiwAgv8mQVeZ8BI9vapg9DU_fk8If1YY5LBBjrL2c_Mcmvz9rDroyk289453jRoCdmkQAvD_BwE
Ridges and valleys galore in that cylinder using them cheap made lawnmower style hones which arent for boring ... You may fool the lesser knowledge base but not someone who knows this art in and out... One half ass job if I ever seen it...
Hey Ray... I understand this isn't the most accurate way to do this... but this is not a race motor... it is BARELY more than a lawn mower motor... and 600 miles on the bike and it is running strong... I'm having fun with the bike and that is what it is all about.
Videos like this should be deleted the bore will never be round and people watching this will get the idea that they can do it and it is far from the way it should be done
These videos are indeed cringe worthy. There is just so much wrong with using these crappy tools to do a precision job.
Sorry Glenn, this is a simple project not a high performance race machine... the bike runs great and I've ridden it hundreds of miles... I know this was the hard way, and there are much better, more accurate, and even cost effective ways to do this... but I had fun, it totally worked and that is a big win in my book!
Hi, man. Very good job! I have an Arctic cat Cougar 440 tell me if you know if you can waste cylinder liners? If it is possible to up to what size? 70 mm? For example?. Will the cylinder wall be too thin
Using a hone like I did the process is so SLOW that it would be hard to get wrong. I'm sure you could screw up a cylinder... but you would have to mess up pretty bad. It is a painfully slow process.
You don’t bore with a hone.