4 Speed Transmission Tuning On HP Tuners, Looking at the 4L60E
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
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I want to correct where you were going with the adaptive settings... the way you explained it sounded a little backwards to what the pcm/Tcm is actually doing...
I don’t know what the tab is called on the OS you’re working on, but on a Gen 3 OS, (just to make things simple), there’s a tab under transmission that has shift Speeds or shift time. This is were it’s referencing to the amount of time(in seconds or milliseconds) that each gear shift is set to command the shift. No matter how much you change the shift pressures on the pressure tab, the pcm/tcm will use the Adaptive learning to try to modify the transmission pressures(by sending different amount of current to the EPC solenoid) based on the difference of the commanded shift time and the actual shift time. You can log both commanded shift time and actual shift time in the scanner to watch if the adaptives are actually making changes when the set shift pressures are all out of whack.
For the 4l60e, 65e and 70e transmissions, the safest and easiest way to change the shift firmness(essentially raising the pressure) is to decrease the upshift shift time tables, while leaving the adaptives alone. This will let the computer still work it’s magic and work the way it’s designed to, while allowing the tuner to reach their goal of making the trans shift faster and firmer to handle increased power.
Changing the shift pressures without turning off the adaptives or changing the shift speeds(time) will essentially do absolutely nothing at the end of the day. Obviously you will notice increased pressure right after you upload the tune and clear the adaptives. But the computer will eventually get the shifts back to square one, in one way or another, because it will attempt to match the actual shift time with whatever is on that table in the tune.
The way to get rid of the adaptives if there isn’t a drop down radio box in the OS to enable or disable them, is to change all the shift speed(time) to less than 0.100 seconds. Or all to 0.000 seconds across the board. I wouldn’t recommend doing this to a novice tuner, especially with a 4l60e transmission. The transmission is simply too weak and temperamental to go off drastically making pressure changes in these heavy vehicles. It’s pretty much a guarantee that once you add a cam or a power adder to a truck with a 60e and they disable the TQ management and KR settings that the transmission will be done in less than a year with a heavy foot. Once you go about changing the pressure tables, it’s all over(ask me how I know).. With a 4L80e transmission and a segment swap, it’s an entirely different story. Plus it’s a much much stronger and more forgiving transmission. The values in a 4l80e based OS are often not very tailored for a performance application either. That’s why most guys who do 80e swaps turn off the adaptives and tune the shifts by changing the pressure tables(contrary to the 60e, etc). If you turn off your adaptives with a 80e, it will give you full control over your shifts. If you turn them off by changing to “disable” in the tune, make sure to reset your adaptives right after you flash the tune. Sometimes you have to do this twice on a newer truck just to be sure. Just be expected to spend some time adjusting the shift pressures in all your upshifts.
Thanks for the clarification!
This was awesome, really cleared it all up for me! Thanks for taking the time to explain this.
I agree with Fix Fitness. Adjust your shift timing instead of shift pressures.
When adjusting your shift timing, it may take some drive time for the adaptives to learn the new timing.
The reason for the adaptives is to give the ECM/TCM the ability to compensate for transmission clutch wear.
As the transmission ages, the clutches start to wear and lose grip. As the clutches lose grip, the ECM/TCM will increase the shift pressure to compensate so it will still hit the desired shift time. This makes it so the transmission feels the same throughout its life.
Can I just use blue cat tool and ignore everything you just said because I don't unerstand it all and still get the best peformance from the trans while maintaining safe and firm shifts?.
Because what I understood from your comment is whenever tuning a 4l60,4l65,4l75..etc all you need to do is change shift timing while leaving the shift pressure and the adaptive alone and that should learn the ecm/tcm achieveing faster,firmer and safer shifts right ...how much time are we talking about here (how many pulls I need to make until the ecm/tcm will learn it itself).
As for a 4l80 the right way to achieve faster firmer and safer shifts is to disable the adaptives either by decreasing the shift times to 0.100 or 0.00 and
changing the shift pressure.
or if there is a tab under adaptive just set it disable and change the shift pressures and in this case will I need to reset the adaptives which sounds weird since I already disabled them ....and if I do it this way do I need to decrease the shift times at all?
@@GoatRopeGarage hi please I need your help. For learning
Dude I don’t know how I’ve never ran across this channel before but I can see it blowing up one day since you are popping up in recommendations
Dude, thank you. I just bought hp tuners, been doing swaps for a living the last 3 years, send all my tuning work to a buddy. Realized how much $ im missing out on by doing so. Been watching tuning videos for years as i am savy with tuner studio and micro/megasquirt. The way you explain stuff makes this alot easier. You talk a bit fast so i gotta pay attention lol, im the same way. But seriously, thanks for these videos!
I had an ex police vehicle 4l60e trans it had mad shifts. 1st was real short & reved high as. Very nice austraian gm v6 3800.
Thank you for doing this! I made my first change today and it did exactly what I was looking for this far. I only took it for a short trip to get a drink from the circle k as it’s raining outside today, but it was awesome! My shifts feel better, they held longer as I was wanting them to so I’m not in third gear at 22 mph so again thank you for doing what you do! You rock and I look forward to learning more from you.
First off, thanks for the great content on the 4L lineup! I've been interested in learning more about the trans tuning side of things, so I'm excited to see what you have coming up.
Secondly, have you ever thought about doing any cam swap content, like a start to finish guide on getting a newly installed cam up and running? There seems to be some varying opinions on how to adjust everything and I'd be very interested in learning your thought process on it.
Again, thanks for another great video and I look forward to more of them!
Yeah, I'm planning on doing one but trying to decide if I want to do it with an actual cam install video.
@@GoatRopeGarage I think a cam swap tuning episode would be a big hit - just by itself alone - but having a hardware install episode could add an interesting dynamic to it too. You could always produce a tuning episode and then add the hardware install episode later on (since it's a lot more involved) and make it a 2-part series. Either way, I'm all eyes and ears, lol.
Great suggestion on cam swap tuning steps!
for the diff score, Its enabled on a 2006 Pontiac Grand Prix GXP (has an LS4). Which makes sense since the 4t65-hd is Fragile
You missed tcc duty cycle.
I’d like to see you slow this down man.
No need to rush through all these good topics.
I did not mention the TCC duty cycle for good reason, but since I have some time today.. why the heck not:
When modifying these tables, you first need to know what kind of converter is in your transmission and if your valve body has been altered at all.(for this part I'm not talking about the stall speed or the converter brand or the size). What you need to understand(before you destroy your aftermarket converter in just a few months) is what type of material your lockup clutch is made of. Most, if not all, OE style converters have a clutch lining designed for PWM engagement/disengagement. Most aftermarket performance convertors do not. So to make a long story short- if you have a TCC designed for PWM(usually stock), then you can modify the TCC duty cycle settings if you desire more of an "on/off' lockup. If you have an aftermarket converter(check with the manufacturer) with a non-PWM TCC clutch, then your transmission builder SHOULD have installed the TCC eliminator valve in the VB. If they did this, the TCC duty cycle tables are basically a moot point for you. If they did not install the valve, then you SHOULD change all the TCC duty cycle tables to 90 for all the cells on the first table and 99 or 100 on the other table. This can also be done with the stock OE type convertor and stock VB as well for an "on/off" desired TCC lockup.
Lastly, make sure your lockup speeds are all consistent via the gear tables. usually most will make the lockup speeds about 2-3mph difference. Just make when going from gear to gear on the table, that the lockup speeds dont cross over one another(see this by clicking the 2D graph of the table), otherwise you'll confuse the pcm/tcm.
Just a nube question.
Can an auto steptronic trans be tuned in order to prevent automatic shifting to first when the handbrake is used?
When I drift my subaru brz i use the handbrake and the trans automatically downshifts to first
@@FirstLast-tx3yj just remove wire from the safety switch.
This is a language I wish I understood - I have a lifter 4x4 Astro van I put 32" tires (235/85R16 "pizza Cutters)on and re-geared to 4:10's. I went ahead and put a new spider injection system in, new 02 sensors, throttle position sensor, idle control sensor, new Y pipe assembly with two new cats, Flowmaster series 70, new AC Delco distributor, wires and plugs - I'm hoping to have the transmission tuned to see if I can get better MPG's - It just feels like the shifting is off - Once I'm at speed and in 4 I get really great mileage, ridiculously so, but getting to speed or when I hit a slight grade she wants to live in 3rd and just guzzles to fuel. Al lot of this work was just recently done so I haven't driven it enough for the computer put all this together, yet (I suppose). I did have have the computer set for the larger tires and gears but the speedo is still slightly off so I suspect the guy didn't get it exactly right
So I've got an 05 Wrangler. The auto (42rle) is notorious for early shifts and immediate torque converter lockup. It's terrible. I want to delay the 3-4 shift by at least 10-15 mph and also delay when the torque converter locks up. It takes a flooring to get it to upshift back to 3rd. Also, with OD disabled it immediately locks up as soon as it gets to third.
There's not a lot of posts on this transmission and zero shops in my area to help.
I also have no idea what I'm doing and this video has been my first dip into the waters of tackling this.
I'm about ready to purchase what I need to get this done.
Great stuff I'm learning I hope u keep it coming
I just rebuilt my trans more bulletproof/longevity speaking for when I tow. Has a shift kit, kevlars. My biggest problem is my second gear is WAY too tall. I can feel it revving right past the torque curve and losing power. I wish I could change the 2-3 shift so that it shifts around 3k instead of where it's at now
If it’s electronically shifted you should be able to. Pretty straight forward under the shift scheduling tab
Have 2005 gto had a fresh rebuild on my trans and my shifts are wonky and rough I want to learn to tune because 600 a dyno day is money well spent elsewhere
You are the best, thank you amigo
My 4l60e in my gto is fully built with a vacuum mod (I’m not sure what it does, but the builder put it in there) also the trans has a 3600stall converter. Could you go more into depth on tuning for a built trans with maybe showing what to do to the tune for the mods. The transmission was built by rossler said to handle 800hp. Thank you.
i watched the vid to make sure i was doing the right thing... suposedly on a truck when going up hill or towing ur supposed to take it off OD to 3rd gear on the 4l60e. Also wanted to make sure whats the top safe speed to drive on 3rd gear great video appreciated
Bro...wearing Pittsburgh shirt and you look like you could be Ben Rothlisberger 😂
hi, i just wanna say that i love ur channle and the tuning content , ihope you the best my friend... keep doing the hard work .
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metaab
I think the 4x4 trucks had a low range input into the ecm that had an effect on torque management .I have a 2002 5.3 complete engine trans package going into a project . The tow / haul switch is an input to the ecm . Sounds like you could program 2 different shift programs to the ecm and select them with the tow haul ?
This is correct.
Just out of curiosity sake for a 5th gen tuning platform here, i have somebody with a camaro thats an automatic that hed like a higher stall for launching the car, is there a way to adjust the TCC slippage in first gear to allow it to build more RPM and more boost for him, he is turboed btw
Im thinking i need some tuning on my 4l60e i jst put a new one in my truck but something is off with this truck i feel it should be quicker. Im hoping after i put a cam in it she'll gain some quickness im sure il have to get a better stall converter. Damn anyone want to buy a kidney cuz thats probably only way im going to afford everything i want to do .anyways good info thanks bud.
How do you go about softening the 3-2, 2-1 shifts? What is the correct timing for those shifts?
Can I mask and protect the trans from hard shifts from 1-2
Excellent video and description thank you! I do have a question I'm working on a 2003 trailblazer 4.2 L with the 4L60E. It seems that after the 1-2 shift, there is a noticeable lag before the engine picks back ip again. Almost like the torque management extends a good vit after the shift, curious if there is a setting for that.
Thanks.
A little adjustment with these 4 speeds makes all the difference. My 6l80 is so much better than my 4l80 stock. After tuning the feel is similar. The factory settings (at least in my 00 silverado 2500) are awful
I have a 4.3 with a 4l60e. I set torque management for trans and engine to zeros across the boards.
Can i tune my brz trans to not go to first when i yank the ebrake??
because it senses that the wheels are not moving for a split second mid drift
Excellent video
Question: why would HP be reading 1-4 gear by 20mph
But trans does not physically shift past 2nd
When In park hp reads “1”
Put into “d” hp will say 1 then 2 jump to 4
Put truck in reverse and hp reads “1”
I’m stumped
show us a140e ! underrated big torque capable!
Can you substitute shift pressures in place of a corvette servo upgrade on the 4L60E?
My 4l80 stalls the engine when i pull it into reverse or drive, even though i put an aftermarket converter in it thats rated near 3k rpm. How would you adjust the baseline pressure, not just the pressure at the shift.
Just put a 2500 - 5000 stall converter in my 4l60e with 462 Chevy big block big cam dome piston’s lot of goodie’s what I want to know is do I have to tune my transmission
I only drag race a few times a year.
I would like it to hold third gear longer. Is that the RPM vs speed table? That was my take away.
(LQ4,4L80E swapped in a chevy OBS.)
Skilled man 👨
Hey my name is Jesse I have a couple questions about a 4L70e and a 3000 stall converter
hey whats up @goat rope garage,,your videos are awesome and ive watched them a few times each..lol..but im gonna start tuning my own vehicle this weekend but im gonna start by turning off DOD/AFM and wanna firm up the shift points and pressures..wish me luck and let me know if theres anything i should be aware of..thanks again..
You got this man, take your time and double check everything, you'll be good!
@@GoatRopeGarage thanks brother..ill keep you posted..
Could you go over the Minimum Throttle Release section? Why is it at 512?
I'm probably going to watch it again because I'm a slow learner. This is where I would adjust the torque converter lockout to do its thing sooner in 4th?
I had my truck hp tuned...then ended up having my transmission rebuilt..now it has way less power..does it need to be re tuned?
What in the tune would cause a triple disk converter to cherp or slip going into lockup on a gen4 tcm
07 Avalanche 408ci Stroker lq9 n/a
Can we disable the limp mode since it does really hard shifts on limp and u never know when it may go into limp
What tables modify the 3-1 and 4-2 skip shifts?? Loving the videos by the way, keep em coming 👌
Check under the downshift section, there should be the tables that show the input conditions for the skip shifts there.
You need to change the shift speed MPH In the downshift table. This is the actual speed that needs to be met in order to have the pcm/tcm command the downshift. Be careful here. It is advised to make small adjustments to these, only a couple MPH at a time. You need to make sure that each table row does not cross over to the other gears. Otherwise the computer will get confused and may not command the shift at all. I like to use the 2D graph function and compare it with a stock tube file to make sure that none of the lines on the graph are crossing over one another. If you have any problems with the shift not happening after flashing a tune, this is likely the cause. Keep in mind these tables are Not used in WOT situations. Only part throttle shifts.
this is an old video, idk if you could respond or not. I’ve followed along on all of your tuning videos and they have helped me tons on learning how to tune. i have a 1999 5.3 with the 4l60, i can’t get it to downshift and take off like i want it to. when around 40mph or a “40 roll” the truck will either stay in over drive or 3rd gear. it bogs hard until it pulls into the power band, or it just won’t go anywhere. can you help me ?
Been seeing all your videos, have been learning little by little since i did get my hp tuners about a week ago. Currently working on a gen 4 silverado, cant seem to get the tow haul button mode to work for racing. Trying to set it to be able to do roll races. The truck is completely stock. No bolt ons or anything. Stock file. Any tips or pointers. TIA
Any way I can fix a too tight 2800-3200 stall in the tune? Drives great just feels like it's being pushed and hard on my brakes. Flashes to 3000. No footbrake stall
Nope, gotta get it loosened up
Get a bigger cam lol 😆
Where are u guys located because I can’t find any body knows what they are doing
what table can make tcc unlock and lock . instead of using brake switch
So after watching this again my HP layout and your layout seem to be different. You have options I don’t and I have options you don’t. I have a Silverado SS with a 4L65E but in general I don’t have the options you do and in shift scheduling I have different options than you making it a little difficult for me as my choices are different in the layout. Do you know why this would be?
dm me i have learned a ton to doing tuning on my custom setup camaro and i could use some custom help setting it up to lock into 2nd or 1st gear for drifting so i dont have to use switches and relays to bypass the pcm and lock it into gear. 90 camaro with 6.0/4l80e/3.42.
install manual shift valve body and sidewinder shifter
my 04 sierra with 4l65e doesnt have Cmd Gear Control Limits tab. How would I get it to hold a gear
Hey buddy I know Iam late I have a 4.8 with a 4l60e in a Silverado I pull a trailer everyday with this thing I can’t get the Tcc to lock up when I pull the trailer on interstate so it gets up to about 220 degrees is there something I can change using Hp tuners like tcc schedule thank you for any direction
is it possible to disable shift adapt, dial in the final results your looking for so you know where your going, and then reenable adapts knowing it is adapting to your final desired settings? This idea is to avoid having to relearn after every tune adjustment, and having to relearn to each event.
Thanks in advance.
Hello plz i wanna ask you i can increase line pressure by tuning? If i have MAF deleted gen 3
I have a 12619623 os. Have you ever found a 4l80e segment swap for that os?
So HP Tuners can tune 45RFE from jeep GC 4.7 1999 ?
I encountered a problem with the transmission seven times I worked for it maintenance, does the problem involve programming the transmission?
My 4l60e looks nothing like the one you're looking at! Just about everything is different, not just numbers but the tables themselves! Hell I don't even have half the options that this one has! On the "trans diag" tab, I don't show any tables at all! And yes I have the pro mode on or whatever it's called.
Bill, you always have the most unique stuff, lol!
@@GoatRopeGarage unfortunately you are correct! Although I must admit when I got my 05 Canyon it was to be used as a work truck for a year or 2 but I never switched jobs so it became sort of a toy. Now, since it is a toy, I just need a turbo... Or something!
You’re lucky. That means less stuff to have to change. The diag tab is only for eliminating DTC’s from popping up.
I have a question so on the 4l60e do you recommend the shift lock to be enabled or disabled still new to this Tia
Can I just use blue cat tool and call it a day ofcourse I will try to get into the trans tuning much deeper but for now this is a lot to digest so can I assume using the blue cat tool is the way to go safely and to get max peformance of any trans ?
Last question can I use blue cat tool for all generation 3,4 and 5 or did I get this the wrong way?
Nothing wrong with that, it does a good job
@@GoatRopeGarageok thanks keep them coming very informative videos
My 4 l80 runs great if i hold it to the floor it down shifts and pulls hard then it will feel like it goes to neutral. What the deal
My 4l60e has some strange problem where say i'm just coasting at 30mph but then want to speed up, the car gains speed as if it's starting off in 3rd gear and speeds up slowly other times it feels like the transmission comes alive and speeds up like a rocket. I don't know if it's either a downshift problem or something with torque converter? can tuning fix this?
Could you show us something about segment swaps for 4l60 to 4l80 swaps and gen 4 stuff maybe? I'm looking at swapping my 03 silverado and new at tuning so any advice/ help would be appreciated
Segment swaps can be done very easily by following the instructions in the HPT Help file.
Been programmed but is overheating on highway.... below 40 it doesn't
Mate I have a Holden commodore ecotec v6 with a 4L60E and I need it tuned as after mace engineering mods: 25 mm manifold spacer and 12 mm plenum spacer, CAI, K&N FILTER. Ported and polished throttle body. It upshifts earlier at 20 km/h into second gear.very jumpy now but when I mash it to the floor? It pulls nice and hard. Cheers from Australia 🙂
Do i need to tune my 4l60 in my C5 for a bigger stall?
Any idea on why my trans under wot won't manual shift ? (unless i let off the throttle) Works fine in drive and works fine under any other throttle conditions
Did you get that fixed?
@@Gs93GrandAm35 naw ended up selling the Jeep.
This is all pretty technical stuff. I was considering a "mild" shift kit for my Silverado SS (4L65E). The goal being quicker, more efficient shifting to reduce the "overlap" reducing clutch wear and resulting in lower operating temps. The guy at my local transmission shop says he can achieve almost the same results with a PCM trans tune. I'm having a tough time deciding which way to go. Tune or shift kit. Given my goals, do you have any advice or recommendations? My SS has 165k miles on it and is running/shifting perfectly. That said, the shifts are slow and smooth. Any help is appreciated.
I'm not sure that you can achieve that much from just tuning I'd do the shirt kit you can install yourself but 165k already with a 6.0 it probably doesn't have a lot of life left in it but I mean a tune will do more than just possible help the trans so probably both
So on the p59 ecm you can select the 60 or the 80 however even if you select the 80 the gear ratios stay the same as the 60. Is this something that needs to be addressed and corrected or can it be left alone
Need to update it appropriately
I need to tuning my jeep Can you help
Can you use HP tuners on a 90 Fox body 4-speed automatic
Doubt it
I have a hard shift into second gear after I run my 06 TBSS hard on the hwy. when I turn off the engine for a min it goes away. Any thoughts on that?
Mines doing the same did u get it worked out thank you
@@bruceshepard1136 I turned it over to the pros. Two solenoids were replaced in the transmission and the shift points were changed. Seems to be ok so far
@@craigfaille3190
Ok I think Iam gonna turn mine in as well
Do you have a similar video for terminator x max for 4l80e? I know I'm missing something simple
No, I didn't use the trans features on it, the rest is the same
@@GoatRopeGarage if I understand this, the transmissions tune is totally independent of the engine ecu. The transmission will just respond to the rpms the engine is doing and all the pressure set points and shifting is transmission only. Am I close?
Any good tuners that can tune in team viewer :D
I love you
The feeling is mutual, lol
Kyle can u direct me to the trans fast adapt reset in the scanner I can’t seem to find that?
Frank, under the vehicle menu the vehicle controls and special functions, there should be a trans tab with it there
Goat Rope Garage hmm I only have (under transmission > gear) command 1st Gear 2nd, 3rd and 4th then transmission > TCC I have TCC PWM Lock /unlock. And last Transmission> manual reverse lock out, CAGS on/off bummer!
@@franksotomayor7341 what trans you running? Might have to use a tech 2
60e gen4 e38 5.3
Kyle what’s a tech 2?
Pittsburgh? that where u based out of
Yep
i clicked this because of the dog thumbnail.
just my stoner thought, how the fuck do people figure this shit out.