NEW Aluminum-Ion Battery has higher energy density & longer life than lithium
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ส.ค. 2023
- NEW Aluminum-Ion Battery has higher energy density & longer life than lithium
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It's not "10 degrees celsius". It's at 10C. C is a measure of how fast you charge (or discharge) a battery. It's the - unitless - ratio of (dis)charging power to battery capacity.
Example: If you (dis)charge a 50kWh battery with 100kW you are (dis)charging at 2C. A Tesla at a v3 supercharger charges at about 3C initially. That is already very high (most other automakers only go to 2C or thereabouts). If they can do what they claim at 10C without destroying the battery then that's pretty incredible.
Though we'll have to wait how all the other metrics pan out (calendaric aging, temperature dependency, tunraround efficiency, etc. ...)
250 kW / 75 kWh = 3,33C.
Enough reading can eventually cure the most stubborn ignorance...
Actually, the charging factor C refers to the time it takes the battery to (fully) charge. if t = Time and Cr = C Rate, you can use t = 1/Cr (for hours) or t = 60 /Cr (for minutes). so, for example. 2C is a battery that can be charged in 60 / 2 = 30 minutes.
10C is a charging rate of 60/10 = 6 minutes. Fully charging the battery in 6 minutes would be amazing.
He must have stayed up too late to miss what 10C is ..... oops
@@wolfgangpreier9160 Which means a sustained application of a 250kW charge for a 75 kWh battery gives a 3.33C charging rate but that kind of gets the constraints the wrong way around.
Batteries and cells can only electrically tolerate certain voltages and currents and the charger must be able to simultaneously provide the right voltage and current or the ideal charging rate won't be achieved. Not just any 250 kW charger can charge any 75 kWh battery at the ideal/peak rate. Any electrical mismatch between battery and charger means that the actual charging rate will have to be limited in such a way that it comes in at somewhat below the peak charging rate of the battery, viz. any absolute limits of voltage or current required for safe charging must apply to the output of the charger but any shortfalls of the charger on that score act as further limitations that do have an impact on the effective charging rate in practice.
So, there is a difference between a vehicle that can achieve a 3.33C charging rate on an ideally matched charger and achieving that charging rate in practice. It is, of course, quite reasonable to talk about battery charging rates at the ideal even if that isn't always achievable in practice.
Additionally, there are sensible constraints that involve shaping of the charging cycle curve. That shaping only adds to charging times so, again, a 3.33C (peak/ideal) charging rate will not equate to a 0 - 100% charge (of a 75kWh battery pack on a 250 kW charger) in 18 minutes (which the C number implies) but something a bit longer that.
Now, for the sake of clarity, it needs to be noted that a higher capacity (doubled, let's say) battery pack identical in design in all crucial respects to this abstract 75kWh pack we are using as an example here (that being the sole difference with additional cells architected in the same pattern as the 75kW pack in a parallel arrangement) will still provide a peak/ideal 3.33C charging rate because that is something wholly determined by cell and pack design details. You will still be able to charge the doubled capacity battery in a bit over 18 minutes. But, you will need a very capable charger - 500 kW-ish and well matched to the battery - to achieve that.
I (as a chemist) have been saying for more than a decade that rechargeable Aluminum batteries are the future....and when they get the chemistry right they will replace most battery types. Lithium when it oxidizes releases one electron.....aluminium can release three electrons. Li ion may be the main chemistry for EVs for some time to come because of superior energy density, but I can see Al ion taking over commercial and home storage.
Sam brings out a great audience of various relevant disciplines. Be cool to get everyone in a live forum of some type.
Iron (Fe) release 3 electrons also, doesn't it? (Just asking)
Check out GMG, they are a graphene manufacturer, using graphene to make graphene aluminum ion batteries, and their stock is trading at an insanely low level right now, even though they are progressing quite quickly
What about dendritic amalgamation?
@@markhartung1190 Amalgamation as in Mercury?
I'm glad the people in the comment section know something about EVs and batteries and are pointing out the battery C Rating goof, thanks!
I'm an experimental longevity researcher. It's funny they are using a sulfur nitrogen chemical, and something related to methylene blue.
Methylene blue is a powerful longevity chemical that is an electron acceptor that helps balance out NAD+ to NADh ratios. That anti psychotic does something similar in the brain to address inflammation.
NO2 and H2S are slave ossilators of circadian rhythm and epigenetic quality control, which help balance the methylation and demethylation pathways and the electrochemical proton gradient.
They are modelling a battery on human epigenetic flux and electron acceptor / donor balance without even knowing it.
Thanks for the additional information. Insightful.
It's nice that the Sulfur from diesel is more readily available!
Referring to the 10C rate as the Celsius rate really ruins any illusion that you understand any of this and aren't just reading out press releases.
That and “anyens”
@@mnhsty I watched it all but missed the 'anyens' one. What was that?
@@jimmybrad156 Said it twice when the script said "anions".
@@mnhsty He is aussie mate , so "anyens" is correct !
Sam does a great job verbally publicizing all things battery and EV related. He slips up every now and again. Personally I find this C metric rather annoying because you you have to juggle energy, power and time in your head and it's really just a measure of how electrically robust a battery is - a metric best left out of public discussion. Just my opinion.
AND HERE I THOUGHT THE CATL REPORT WAS THE BE-ALL AND END-ALL
Combining this formula in a solid state format.... and even a structural solid state format.. could be an actual pivot point toward full transportation electrification
As a future EV owner, I'm excited by all the new battery tech. I'm still waiting for that jumping in point where cost and battery meet my needs.
These announcements are designed just for people like you. They carry doubt in people's minds that battery tech isn't ready and for people to continue polluting until it's too late to change. We need to change now, not in 5 years or a decade.
In time batteries will last forever. We are at the “model T” stage of this and chemistry is full of surprises.
Not really, the only real breakthroughs in a 100 odd years have been nickel, and more recently Lithium. There have been hundreds, if not thousands of proposed breakthroughs the last 30 years or so, none of them make the cut to be commercially realist. Basic chemistry / physics limits what’s possible.
@@mkyhou1160a battery that retains close to 100% capacity after 5,000 cycles would last over 40 years, assuming charging every 3 days based on higher energy capacity and range and moderate daily driving for the average owner. That is effectively lasting forever as a lifetime of driving for many people assuming the rest of the vehicle lasts that long
Your ability to discover Annalise and report this impressive quality of information is so very impressive. Great work Aussie.
Glad you enjoyed it
Get a spell checker application for your phone - I thought they all had them anyway
Hi mate, it's "C" rate, not Celsius rate, as in the battery was charged and discharged at a 10 C rate. 👍
One of these days an amazing new battery formula will be found. Maybe several new compounds. It's just a matter of time.
That is being done every day. Most do not make it to the market because their advantage is not good enough. Some do. All the time.
To paraphrase Elon Musk, who said prototypes are easy, production is hard, I would say making new battery cells in the lab is easy, making them in the millions or billions is hard.
YES, and we are SICK of hearing the SAME BULLSHIT every other day... Lets wait until it is REAL before wasting any more f___ing videos on the subject...
Game Over - when are we going to see the Holy Grail 🤣
@@harmony3138working on it...
So this is the “game changer” that will change the game from the game-changer you announced earlier this week?
If this batterry recovers to 100% of its original capacity with an appropriate conditioning cycle, then the data (supposing the data exists) is effectively demonstrating the battery does not wear out in any fundamental manner - so, it can be made to "last forever." Please dig into this further and link us to the researchers' actual data.
I wonder why this university experiment seems to be covered when Graphene Manufacturing Group is preparing production ready batteries in couple if years
It appears the marketplace has driven some of the biggest brains into this field. Good for us. Thanks, Sam.
My pleasure!
Another good one Sam. People seem surprised by all the battery vids. You said last year that battery tech was advancing by leaps and bounds. These vids are giving info on the fruits of their labor. Won’t see production for 7-10yrs, but hey, it’s coming.
Good point, when was the first supercharger or turbocharger?
They were dependent on the machining tech and the oil's ability in sheer.
Battery tech has always been the elephant in the room. This goes back to when Edison and Ford bought the Detroit Electric Car Company. Only to have Edison's "Fire proof" factory burned down under suspicious reasons.
Researchers at the University of Queensland have been working on the Al ion battery too. I believe the company is called GMG. Nothing new about this, but then again, there is no great breakthrough to allow mass production either.
Did I once read aluminium causes the illnesses associated with old age
I still doubt they claim the energy density ia up to 300Wh/kg wich rival state of the art lithium ion
Sounds like these would be good for grid storage.
I'm watching this again and find it good cheers mate
The Electric Viking is great! The aluminum battery it has a long way to the series fabrication,. yara yara yara . like more other batteries,.. Till then lithium holds the ground!
I'M A USER OF THE BLUE!!!!! it is a life changer to some.
Might be a good partner with gmg. They have a aluminum- graphene in later stage of development
Not 10 Celsius, Sam, 10C. (The 'C' conveys a certain rate of charging. To achieve a 1C charging rate the charger must be capable of providing and must provide the right voltage and current needed to fully charge a battery in 1 hour, granting that the battery must be capable of accepting/tolerating a charging cycle at that rate, too.) A 10C charging rate, which is very high, means that a full charge of a battery is achieved in around 6 minutes.
The C rate abstracts away from voltage and current to focus on something very important - how fast a battery can charge (in an ideal charging situation). The C ratings don't mesh in a tight way with charger capabilities, however. A charger for instance might be capable of 10C charging for a 100kWh battery at 1000V but at 800V (which is the highest voltage that many batteries can tolerate) the charger mightn't be able to provide the additional current to maintain the high 10C charging rate. The Cs have meaning but only against a background of battery technologies that typically rate well or poorly on that scale. In relation to the C scale think about clock time first and everything else next.
Yet another bloody new battery technology! Well, I'm glad that they are doing so much research!
Another example of the improvements. Might be Moore's law fits the progress curve of battery capacity?
Thanks for all your work, finding these new innovations and technologies.
Very hopeful.
Our pleasure!
Does sound wonderful, you've found a winner in curiosity terms. Hopefully in five or so years there will be a battery 'product' making good use of their work. In meanwhile hopefully much sooner than batteries using the sulphur technologies such as in development in Melbourne and iron-flow and/or iron-air technologies will also become commercially available.
10C does not stand for 10 Celsius, it stands for Coulomb. In this case it stands for charging speed.
typical batteries like in the ID series charge with a maximum of 2...2.5C.
CATL recently anounced an LFP battery with 6C. that results in 60 minutes divided by 6 = 10 minutes for a full charge if they would always charge with full speed (which would destroy the battery).
so, 10C is really, really fast. full in 60/10 = 6 minutes. of course you would reduce charging speed at the end which results in approx. 10 minutes for a full charge.
Al3+ carries 3 times the charge of Li+ But the mass is over 3 times heavier. So it seems slightly less efficient at carrying charge. SAM YOUR RESEARCH EFFORT IS FANTASTIC Thank you 👍👍👍
If they really can recharge at 10C (that's not a temperature, btw, it's a rate), then it should recharge in 6 minutes, theoretically. In practice it will take longer than that, because it's only a peak speed. And if that can be done thousands of times without killing the cells, it will be a pretty amazing battery technology. Let's wait to see what happens over the next few years. We live in exciting times. Thanks Sam. 🙂
Al ion can charge / discharge at rate up to 70C
Edison was investigating similar batteries years ago
Use a multiple compound anode made of phenyl thyazine polymer, silicon and titanium, for the cathode side use iron 3 ferrocyanide with copper oxide/graphite collector. The higher charge ratio and cost of the aluminum would compensate for the need for lithium and cobalt per unit of mass.❤
I wonder how well these multiple game-over videos will age.🤔
Most of them like milk.
10C does NOT mean 10 Celsius. It’s a measure of the charge rate compared to capacity. 10C means that it can charge at 10 times its nominal capacity (e.g. a 1Ah cell can charge at 10 amps)
The competition among game-changing technologies will be interesting to watch unfold and may play out in multiple waves as they are not all necessarily ready to go at the same time. The RethinkX battery cost curve production will also very likely continue as predicted with all these new technologies. The future looks great!
Very interesting!
I was happy to see my clippings useful for your vast information packed video on the new modification taking place in aluminium ion batteries, from Jawaharlal Bharat INDIA 🙏
Glad it was helpful!
Backward compatibility is being ignored. Swapable upgradable battery packs would be nice as battery technology improves
It's amazing how many new batteries are being developed. I wonder if any particular one will emerge to dominate the market.?
Life long battery 👍
Looks like the game is just getting started. May the best batteries win.
This channel is great, but I’m not keeping track of all the new batteries. Or what’s now outdated. Please do a survey of the field occasionally.
Thanks heaps Sam
Any time!
The Viking also insists that flying cars at a price point under 40k will be available in less than 6 months. 😳🤣😂
What is the temperature operating range? Most of the aluminum battery designs to date required high temperature to work. So many of these very impressive battery technologies talked about have some feature that prevents them from being commercialized or used in many applications. I believe eventually one will be developed that will have high capacity, high charge and discharge rate and low cost. Maybe this is the one! Will just have to wait and see.
He says the tests were carried out at 10 degrees Celsius
Awesome
Let’s see if it ever comes to the English market!! It sounds like it could revolutionise electric vehicles running on Lithium batteries.
My chemistry is nowhere near good enough to really follow the discussion with underdtanding, but recharge amounts and capacity over time sounds good, but my question with this exotic substance is how abundant it is, is it possible to source in quantity in an environmentally friendly way, and is it economical, can it be recycled?
There was a lot of hype about aluminum air batteries about 15 years ago but there has been no commercialization of them due to problems with the anodes and reaction product buildup. We'll see if the can actually bring these Al ion batteries to market.
This is not al-air, actualy this is alcl ion battery
way to go Aluminium cheap lite weight and Abundant what more could you want may the best chemistry win
5 gamechangers a day and you think early adopters made good choices.
Lol
I hope in 50 years we won't have that many game changers and a few good products
Amen
This is a game changer
Does the batteries have heat run off ?
Nice jacket 👍👍👍
Thanks!
It's near game over. Hydrogen will never be able keep up with this rapid pace of battery technology change.
Evening mate
I'm waiting for Uranium U238 bartteries. That would be a game changer😅
Lots of activity and investment in the Salton Sea to recover Lithium, is this a mistake? Sounds like the amount of recovery is significant. Does anyone know if the Laguna Salada has the same chemical elements available as the Salton Sea?
"The specific energies of the Al/X-PVMPT cells, taking into account the masses of active materials in electrodes and electrolytes, reach up to 30 W h kg1" Really low energy density.
10c is fully charged in 6 min , very impressive
Game over mate !!!!!😂
Man! If only we had aluminium in the US! Or does it still work if you call it aluminum??
It's amazing you have the mental stamina to keep up with the wild claims of so many super batteries. Next batteries will launch skyscrapers into space. It's ridiculous.
Have you not heard of GMG Manufacturing Group? They are years ahead of this with that tech.
I would think that thermal storage systems would last longer than chemical ones. Interesting research though.
Do they burst into flames if you drill them with a drill? Do they have a liquid electrolyte? Are they liquid cooled?
Don Saddaway has been working on Al Sulphur chemistry … even cheaper and more possibilities🤷🏻
aluminum plus hydrogen from fraunhoffer paste might be interesting
If it turns out to be the same price as LFP batteries, but lasts 50 years instead of 8, that will solve the battery problem.
With exiting new CATL batteries having a life of 3,000 cycles till they get to 75% and much cheaper than last years battery these would last 50 years in an EV. . Then you use them energy storage rather than recycle them repurpose them .Aluminium batteries may be better suited to energy storage on a large scale depending on cost and temperature affect to charging rate and expansion and contraction during cycles .
G lad to see the age of batteries has finally arrived! 40 years ago I lost money investing in my first battery company then I lost money in A123 when they went bankrupt and China bought their IP:-) Then I lost money in a heavy metals mining operation in Nevada which couldn’t get its environmental act together. That same property is back alive today with government subsidies. I guess I was just too far ahead of the curve:-(
heavy metals mining in USA is not cost competitive compared to in china and africa (where chinese co's operate) . That is why it was dumb idea to invest w/o subsidies or environmental clearance (look at the canada US oil pipeline stuck )
@@davelawson2564 I agree from an economic point of view but I was looking at it as a national security perspective. I couldn’t believe we would not subsidize these technologies. But back in those days we were shipping all of our manufacturing off shore to China. I guess now we have finally awaken.
What happens when the cell gets damaged? Explosion like li-ion, Na-ion or Lifep04?
combined with a static generator an there you have it!!
How subject is this battery to temperature extremes?
Bingo! However, technology needed to maintain the batterys' temperature constraints is commonplace.
How might this compare with Sodium ion batteries?
According to the number this is superior than na ion, but it only on paper
What's the energy density in the unit Wh/kg?
They GMG claim their state of the art alcl ion battery have 300Wh/kg and power density 9kw/kg
I see those who think they are smart add comments disparaging 'yet another breakthrough' without realising the significance of these breakthroughs; and that is the chemistry is in its infancy and we can expect continuing advances during the next 5 decades.
The sad thing is that news of these developments may be the excuse some are looking for to avoid buying an EV 'until they get the batteries sorted out'.
Optimists like me think that in 10 years time I will be able to replace my EV batteries with ones that give me 3x the range, and my old batteries will add to the battery backup for my solar PV system.
The germans? Did zey make you zign ze paperz?
A thermite battery?
This is another wonderful technology that will not be developed because no one would simply bother
There are bound to be many “breakthroughs” over the next few years, most of which will die for whatever reason. Perhaps in 5-10 years there will be an accepted best solution and thereafter incremental improvements will follow. In the meantime I think it is interesting to learn about these developments if only for satisfying curiosity.
The none Lithium battery breakthrough rate is likely to be somewhat more exponential than the Lithium one. The one issue is with who has been doing the research and has been working on actual production research.
80% is being done in China . The US despite sitting on the worlds largest known Na reserves is still production focused on Li 🤦🏻♂️ technology’s.
Don't you love people that can't pronounce aluminum correctly:) A British citizen called this metal aluminum which is the proper name, but a couple of scammers(British also) tried to take credit for it by changing the name to "aluminium". It didn't work, but I have found that the British don't even know this tidbit about their own discovery of this metal. Strange. Still the battery tech seems promising.
In 'anions' the 'i' is long, from 'an-ions'.
Fascinating developments, but we have to remember that industry is sustained my manufacturing products with planned obsolescence.
Here in the UK the average age of car on the road is 8.4 years - the oldest it has ever been.
We now have over 10 million cars built in or before 2008 and altbough EV sales are growing, overall car sales are now in decline.
If people keep cars for longer, that has a negative effect on mamufacturing output and therefore industrial growth overall.
You didn't really think the carrots & sticks emplyed to push EV sales were because of the environment, did you?
Bookmark this development - its likely one more promising technology that will be patented and sat on because industry needs us to keep buying new cars and cars with batteries that last forever (or even a very ling time) are simply not good for business...
Another day, another battery.
Oh gawd its game over😂
Sounds like a bunch of bauxite to me
Sounds like bollocks to me...
"a definite possible contender" 😂
A lot of oil and other money floating around just waiting to hoover up many exciting technologies and ... close them down. Its what happened to continuous titanium production .. American defence contractors bought British Titanium Oxide patents around 2000. But we can always hope for a brighter future.
Anyone who has the misfortune of having aluminum household wiring will probably tell you this is a bad idea.
I am curious as to where along the curve The Viking King thinks Australia's Graphene Manufacturing Group (GMG) is in relation to the technologies discussed here? Are they more or less on the mark as one and the same, or is this unnamed research group and these German discoveries or creations and such the sort of things that will exceed or supplant GMG's efforts? So, are these things that will undermine and compete with GMG or conversely, be the sorts of technological advancements that world or could benefit GMG? (Or is GMG itself largely what is being focused on here, in which case it is all one and the same?) (A little repetitive there, but I think that should get across the gist of the basically three pronged question I am asking here.)
The ultimate battery is nuclear powered battery.
Get buzzing when batteries burn 😂
So why are these batteries better than the current trending sodium batteries?
Trending? We already have and will have many more different battery types and chemistries. Every single one has its special place, its technological niche application where its better than the alternatives. This one is one of many.
This is all stil at research scale. Sodium-Ion that is useable for EV's is not available yet, as the mass production facilities don't get built overnight.
Both are made of more abundant materials, which will cut cost and pollution from mining at the scale needed to power the world.
So even if they are more or less equal, both may succeed.
@@SolAce-nw2hf You are of course correct for US firms. In China CATL, HiNa and a third one i don‘t remember have already put their cells into batteries to be put into EVs. Past tense. Not future.
Many will succeed. Na+ have two major advantages: Robust against temperature changes and low temperatures and very high power possible. 10C is the „new normal“. They have two major disadvantages: Size and Weight. Every battery has its own advantage and disadvantage making it fit for many but by far not all purposes.
Na+ are good for farming, building, ships, trains. Redox Flow are good for Solar, Ships. Li-Ion are good for high power applications possibly airplanes and drones in the future, LFP are good for solar, EVs, Medium power and very long lasting requirements. And so on and so forth.
@@wolfgangpreier9160 Sodium batteries announced from those large manufacturers are not really available just yet, but should be very soon. If you know of any possibility to buy just one right now (anywhere in the world), please let me know.
when the game changer battery is never going to change anything. lol. Solid state batteries, Sodium Ion Baterries, Graphite Batteries, and now Aluminium Ion Batteries. those New Batteries only available in secret Labs and tech journal. It seem LFP or NMC or Lithium Ion will stay longer maybe for another 20 -30 years
An anion is not an "an-yon" it's an "an-iron"
apple wont have to throttle their phones then ;) any idea of the charging efficiency of this technology?
And it can have even higher density if you remove the second "i" from Aluminium.
Aluminum is the American and Canadian spelling for the silver-white metallic element (number 13 on the periodic table) abundant in the earth's crust. Aluminium is the preferred spelling outside North America. Neither term is superior to the other, and both are etymologically and logically justifiable.
But 'i' is the lightest letter in the language, as well as being one of the most common vowels in the plant's crust.
@@Mr31Vince The person who discovered Aluminum named it "Aluminum" not "Aluminium". It even set off my spelling checker!
@@Islamisthecultofsin Hans Christian Oersted discovered aluminium in 1825 in Copenhagen, Denmark (which is not in the US or Canada), the eminent German chemist Friedrich Wöhler is generally regarded as the first to secure a pure sample of the element by chemical reduction in 1827 (again not American or Canadian). Your spell checker is set to English US.
@@Mr31Vince Google brought this too me but I can't find it on the website that it got it from. So I guess it's been removed. "When Sir Humphry Davy identified the stuff in 1809 he called it alumium after its kinship to potash alum. That word soon became aluminum. Then, to get a Latin-sounding word, the English put in an extra letter I. They've called it aluMINium ever since."