Thank you Bjorn this was a very useful video. I took delivery of the 40 kWh Nissan eNV200 in October 2018 and it has been brilliant. I heard at the time that Nissan has fixed the 'rapidgate' issues but I am glad you confirmed it with the later released models. Thank you for taking the time to explain the difference between the old and new version. Keep up the good work.
Do you think the 40kWh e-NV200 is practical for long road trips? I have a VW Caddy and also a 40kWh LEAF, and I usually use the van for long trips: replacing the van with an e-NV200 would be a big decision! How does it compare with the LEAF charging performance as shown in this video?
@@anahatamelodeon from what the dealership said and based on research the env200 was designed from the outset to be used daily as a commercial vehicle so it can cope with multiple rapid charges. I have had not issues charging 2 and sometimes 3 times in a day. I think you might have a tougher decision and that would be whether to buy now or wait for the 60 kWh version!
@@SaffyMirza I haven't heard that there will be a 60kWh version of the e-NV200: have you? (and I have seen one article on line that said it was unlikely, but I don't know on what evidence. If there is going to be one, I'll wait for it) As for the 60kWh LEAF: Kia Niro would be a better choice, or something else better still by the time I want to change cars in a few year's time
@@anahatamelodeon I am just hypothesising, because the eNV200 is a design that is now 5 years old and in need of a refresh, its a ripe candidate to look more like the rest of the Nissan 'corporate face' Its a good vehicle with its little quirks but can save any commercial operation a lot of money using it daily. As far as I know its still the only 7 seat electric vehicle apart from the Tesla model X. Nissan would be daft to not develop this into a best seller in the commercial mid sized van segment.
Ambient temperature (-7) versus battery temperature (43 average) gives a temperature difference (delta T) of 50 degrees. In summer the temperature difference between battery and ambient will be around 25 degrees (50-25) max. This results in a cooling capacity (in winter) of at least twice of the summer capacity. In summer I noted (driving 110 on the Leaf speedometer) absolutely no cooling of the battery after the second charge (one red block in Leaf gauge). Starting the third charge was slow (19 kW) due to too warm battery. Sooo, fixed? NO!. Usability in winter has improved, second fast-charge speed in summer has improved. Bjorn, it would be nice if you did the same test in summer conditions.
@@bjornnyland Yep, I saw that; that was with the old BMS software I think?. Since Nissan (or 'TH-cam') claims to have 'fixed' the issue with new software (I got (maybe beta?) that at the end of June last year) it would be interesting to see what will happen in summer. Maybe the software I got in summer was improved later? I don't know. All I know is that the second fast charge was so quick that it heated up the battery. In summer (27 degrees ambient) it did not cool down at all; The third fast charge was only 19 kW (it started with the first red dot in the Leaf gauge). I really like your vids; keep up the good work!
The A pillars are quite thick, but the thing that is really noticeable compared to the old Leaf is the rear view mirror which is low down and does seem to obscure a large chunk of windscreen.
I drove the German e-cannonball from Hamburg to Munich in my August 2018 delivered Leaf2. I wondered why I got much better speeds than most people on youtube got. I did 7 DC charges and drove 95km/h as you did. The temperature when I left the later charges was 52°C and had dropped to 44°C when I got to the next one and I always received 34kW max. charge rate. The temps from about half the trip to it's end stayed in that 44°-52° range then.
@@bjornnyland WOW, so Nissan reacted quietly but much quicker than expected. My car was produced early August 2018 and already then had a fix installed.
Well I guess the rapidgate software was what the real engineers wanted, and the new software is what the PR people wanted. Another thing to keep in mind is that the useable capacity goes down if a battery gets colder or warmer. Some Samsung Lithium-Ion batteries for example: 25°C: 100%, 0°C & 40°C: 80%.
The old software had a very obvious bug. The maximum charging speed should always be directly related to the current battery temperature. That was clearly not the case with the old software. It just checked the temperature once at the beginning of the charging. I would even bet, that they just had a fixed charging curve with the old system, and they multiplied it with the temperature at start. If you have another opinion, please explain to me, why it makes sense, that the old version sometimes charged with 40 kW on a hot battery (if it was cold in the beginning), but as soon as you restarted the charging, it immediately dropped to 20.
Yes that was indeed pretty stupid. But as can be seen in the video, the threshold for throttling is now set at a lot higher value. The two issues have nothing to do with each other.
I live in Spain, even with this fix I don't think DC fast charging would be a viable option for a trip from spring to autumn. It would be way too slow, ambient temps in summer are over 30 deg C in most places. For me, no active battery cooling = no buy
I'm thinking maybe a base Tesla Model 3 (if and when available) is going to be better than a LEAF for any long trips, especially with likely status of charging networks here in the near future. The DC charger provided at the local Nissan dealer doesn't seem to even briefly exceed 18 kW. This prevents any overheating but takes too long if you are in a hurry to get somewhere.
@@Cosmycal As long as I know, 60kw new leaf will not include active cooling. I wish i am wrong, but check the following link: www.electrive.com/2018/12/04/exclusive-long-range-leaf-to-debut-without-liquid-cooling/
@@W0lfenstein3D Not quite double, but nearly. I'm not talking about the long range model. Base TM3 (if and when available) will be $35K USD (or less) without counting on any incentives. A 2019 LEAF SL with ProPilot and 60 kWh battery (no active thermal management) will be about $47K before incentives. I'm saying that I think the Tesla will be the better choice.
Great news, in the market for a used leaf 40 and this has pushed me towards it. Need to know this software update is applicable to older leaf 40s too. Any contacts to find out?
Bjorn, great insight. Thanks. Was planning to buy e-NV200 but the rapidgate changed my mind. I'm in hot weather... Not an eco car if your battery degrades and need replacement.
The 40 kWh eNV200 has the active thermal management that the Leaf lacks. Ask 40 kWh eNV200 owners about their experiences before you shut the door on the vehicle you want.
@@Markle2k NV200 40Kwh has termal management in deed, but only when the car is fired up/ running, so it's dificult to leave it changing while you are doing something else.
I wouldn't call it "fixed". I would call it "mitigated" to some extend. You are driving fairly slow at rather slow speeds and additionally started with an almost frozen battery pack. So that means in summer you might realistically expect one charge at full speed, maybe 2 if you drive slowly. And the battery probably be not too happy, to be baking north of 40 or even 50 degrees for a lengthy period of time. For comparison: When I tested the Leaf in early summer in Germany at 120/130 km/h at around 25 degrees I didn't manage a single charge at full speed because the battery was too hot from driving alone.
@@bjornnyland Does the temperature stay at 50 degrees on a Tesla or peak there for a brief moment? The Leaf does not have any meaningful ways of cooling the battery pack and in summer, with temperatures of 20 or 30 degrees outside, it won't drop even when driving 90 km/h. So whatever temperature you reach at the charger - you will stay there during the next leg. I don't think that 50 degrees are bad - as long as they do not occur frequently and or for a lenghty period of time. People with more technical knowledge: Please correct me, if I'm wrong. PS: My Kona still needs to be baptized. Bumblebee (my IONIQ) has been sold in November. :P
@@atticus717 I'm not sure, some early Leaf's have 423232, some later models have 423237, I'm wondering what diagnostic key/value pair indicates the rapidgate fix
@@johantoday The comments in here delve into this more, unsure if you've got the means to check this? th-cam.com/video/OGuBXFkwhYE/w-d-xo.html There's a discussion of serial number effects in here too www.speakev.com/threads/rapid-charge-software-change-fixes-rapid-gate.132276/page-2 I'd be interested in your numbers! :)
@@atticus717 I have the 'C' version: 5SH2C HV BATTERY that means my is car fixed! If your version ends with 'A' or 'B' then your battery will rapidgate :(
Brilliant video,as usual.Now we need to update an old car previously featured with rapid gate issue and see if it solves the charging issue.realistically most folks don’t go more than 3 charges in one go, but if you need to it would be good to know you can
Glad Nissan finally woke up and fixed the Leaf problem. Thanks for letting us know; it might help Nissan with a few hundred more sales from people like me.
Indeed another very clever testing from Prof. Nyland ; brought the Leaf 40 back to my closer choice for an EV in 2019. I don`t see an issue with batterydegradation using the new software. Please find more healthy food on your trips, young man!
We have got the car on first monday in july and never experienced rapidgate with high temperatures. Actually our results same as yours. This was fixed long time ago. good video :-)
A temperture split inside the battery from around 15´C is not a good sign...hotspots will degrade some cells faster @björn could you ask nissan when they retrofit the 60 kwh battery in my japonleaf...
My experience with navigation systems is that when selecting locations they always give the distance to that point "as the crow flies", and don't show the actual on-road driving distance until a route is locked in. If the Leaf still does the straight-line distance when you're travelling on a programmed route that's weird, unusual and probably a bug. If Rapid-gate is fixed, that's great, and while it may increase degradation unless the owner is doing mostly long hauls it's probably not a huge issue, or at least not a large difference from nornal Leaf battery degradation from not having good thermal management in any situation at all.
They should let the owner decide if he wants rapidgate or degradationgate. Or an override with pop up “rapid charging at these temperatures will increase battery degradation, click OK to proceed, or CANCEL.” And of course the BMS will use an algorithm that continually adjusts maximum charging speed such that your battery will degrade at the maximum amount NOT covered by warranty. Sort of like what Tesla does.
You are assuming that the new charging rules hurt the batteries. We don't know yet. And I bet Nissan wouldn't hurt the batteries and cause more warranty replacements if it wasn't safe. Keep in mind that Tesla batteries operate at 30-50°C when driving and supercharging.
Bjørn Nyland, we already know it’s a FACT that faster charging at higher temps WILL certainly increase degradation. And as I said, Nissan can protect itself in the warranty by using an algorithm that lets you degrade to the maximum amount without reaching the warranty coverage. But forget having a battery that lasts 10 years. An also as I said, this should be a customer choice, just like in a Tesla, who can choose 0-100% or 30%-80%, and decide in advance if he wants his battery to last 10 years, or not. Your Tesla model X has no degradation warranty, it only gets replaced when it has a failure. But if you degraded it 70% and Tesla looks at your history, they can say that is normal for your usage.
@@EVPaddy now they have stopped producing own batteries. I think the new Nissan Leaf 2.0 Plus (60 kWh) has now LG Chem, but without good TMS. The next disaster can happens.
@@EVPaddy back that up with facts! Nissan has replaced two battery packs here in all of Norway. How many battery packs has Bjørn gone through? Two new packs! His Model S and X have gotten new batterie's. I have had all versions of the Leaf. Driven from Norway to Lithuania on many occasions in high temperatures. My battery has been up to 56 Celsius a few times. After 30000+ kilometers' driven I have less than 2% battery degradation and SOH 100%. There are many stupid people who own EV's and have no idea on what they are doing when it comes to charging and or propper battery maintenance. I have seen people leave their EV's at a very low SOC in extreme cold and high SOC ib high temperatures for extended periods. This is not good for the battery. So Nissan nor the others can avoid ignorance of the owners. But, you need to bring the battery up to high temperature once in a while to break down the Dendrites.
@@EVPaddy I have only seen 1 Leaf with 1 bar lost and I have seen many of these cars. Look at this article for instance. www.zap-map.com/electric-taxi-company-clocks-100000-miles-in-nissan-leaf/
What you said at the end basically describes how we're going to use our Leaf: almost always charging at home, but 3 or 4 times a year making ~250-300 mile (400-480 km) trips, where obviously 2 or 3 fast charges per journey will be needed. So battery degradation won't really be a concern for us, whereas it'll be nice to know we'll still be able to get fast charging speeds when we need them. This is in the UK, where ambient temperature is usually 23° at most.
Yes! At last they fixit. It is not clear what version do the thing. When that car was build ? You could see it with the sticker on the door. You are Right about that we need fast charging not often for the casual user like me. But we want fast charging occassionally for longer trip. Great video, thank for taking Time to do the test.
Fantastic the leaf can charge 32 kW at 41°C when an Ioniq charge at 66kW. Great job Nissan. It was -7 or -3°C with and very fast speed (88km/h). The leaf is ready to do the 24H of Le Mans in only 3 days. We are lucky the Leaf born EV and not fossil.
@@Cosmycal Were is the 60kWh Leaf ? In 1 or 2 years ? With chadémo ? Fantastic in Europe. The Leaf can take more bananas boxes but it's not a good EV to travel, sorry. The 60kWh Leaf can have the same problem when the 39kWh ioniq coming to "kick is ass". Make a ioniq 64kWh battery and the game is done 600km (hat very high speed about 93km/h) before charging the first time and charging 30mn to do 250-300km more. That's 850km for 30mn charging, no time anymore to go restroom or eating unhealthy food. No problemo have a good day, it's just to laugh.
@@djeffhawk7987 It's public reveal is estimated in one week at the CES, and will be in dealers around May 2019 according to last sources. I don't consider ChaDeMo as a problem right now, there's a lot of them out there. Also the Leaf is selling more than the Ioniq, don't see it kicking ass.
@@Cosmycal If you look at the temperature, rapidgate is pretty much thermal issue, not capacity issue. Last I heard, 60kWh still won't have liquid thermal management, unsure if it'll be sealed box like current Leaf. If like current Leaf, rapidgate will still be there.
Thanks Bjorn great test. I have a November 2018 UK Nissan Leaf 40kwh. Hopefully mine has had this software upgrade too! I will check tomorrow and see if the software numbers match the ones shown in your video.
Have a leaf from september 2018. Charging today in Bergen -1 degrees outside. 45KW speed between 30% and 45% soc. temp went from 10 degrees to 16 degrees. Down hill after that. Aborted charging at 65% soc, 20.5 degrees on battery and only 28KW charge speed.. That's way below your charts.
I love your vlogs, you hit the nail on the head every time. Please can you repeat the test in the summer so we can see a comparison with different ambient temperatures?
Nissan are one of the few motor manufacturers to embrace and promote electric vehicles, so they deserve a lot of credit for that. They have made a mistake by omitting to include battery thermal management, but I'm sure they'll correct that with future versions of the Leaf and other cars. I was waiting for the 40kW Leaf to be released but was disappointed and put of by Rapidgate issue and bought an i3 instead.
If it only is a software change, it would be released OTA at some point (well, at Tesla at least) or installed when you are in the shop for your next inspection (most other car manufacturers; most of the time they won't tell you about updates, but do them anyways).
Those temps still seem high and i would love to see this redone on a hot summer day. Where i live in the summer it easily hits 90F here and i'd think this thing would be smoking at those temps. I still wouldn't waste money on this..maybe used for around town running. Long term i'd worry about the pack. Nissan needs to Tesla cool this thing.--this car is another reason i'll stick to fossil for long distance driving until gasoline becomes insanely overpriced or non existent...or i'm dead.
I thing lower or higher charging speed means the same final battery temperature. Lower speed produce less heat in the same time period of course, but you charge much longer time! And on very high temp there is charging speed throttling too. So there won't be higher degradation, only faster charging during regular using.
Maybe worth retesting in summer to see if ambient temperature being low in winter is less risky for battery to be hot? You need some butter for your dry buns.....
@@bjornnyland I meant this version, I realise the old version had issues but this later version may behave differently in winter compared to summer? Like your tests, very handy for someone considering buying an eV
the questions is if its just software change means it allows the battery pack to overheat. Means Nissan will have to change more often degraded packs. I wonder if this software will be available to work on earlier 2018 Leafs??
My leaf 40kwh bought new early october still have the rapidgate issue. Holmestrand-Trondheim 550km in -5 to -14 C conditions, and reduced charging speed on third charge.
@@bjornnyland No, so my experience is only from Leafs dash. Last 3 charges max 32 to about 20 at Hanestad, Alvdal and Berkåk. Was suprised the temps didnt go down even when ambient was -14c and I was driving like a grandma.
The HV battery version (BMS) is not in the secret display in the nav unit. It is in leafspy Pro. Under service menu and ecu version. Did you check what BMS version Leafspy reports?
Nice test as always. Thank you for the work! Questions: Is there no any radiator in the front? Is there some space for? Do you know any solution (maybe from 3rd party) to improve cooling the Leaf battery? Best would be a radiator with extra fan doing liquid cooling something arround the battery. Maybe adding heatpipes or what-o-ever. But no any hardware is foolish from Nissan. So doing a cooling upgrade will be on top of a tuning list for this car.
How the results on battery charging done at 0 degrees Celsius are relevant anywhere else when temperatures are higher than that?. If you the same thing is done at least at 21 degrees Celsius or higher then this is informative or useful. Good to know battery remains cool when temperature outside is 0 degrees Celsius. Wouldn’t have imagined that without this video 😅.
I guess they changed the battery from AESC Cells to the LGChem cells already. Maybe the LGChem ones have lower resistance and produce less wasteheat while charging. 🤔
I think, the #rapidgate is not fixed, but there is a better usablilty. In hot sommer days the battery will be cooked more as now. And the SOH will not better in future.
@@bjornnyland , the title of your video says: "Rapidgate has been fixed" this is a statement, not a question. And this statement is wrong. You know exactly what i mean.
You're mixing slow charging with degradation. That's two different topics. Rapidgate is about slow charging. You know that well. So my statement is correct. You did watch the live stream or the video before commenting, right?
@@bjornnyland Has the Tesla active cooling ? To me having watched the whole test it looks like Nissan has modified or even disabled some of the thermal management on the battery to accommodate the higher charging speeds. Had the Leaf a great reputation for longevity of it's batteries this might have been acceptable. As it is I would read the T's&C's of the update for existing owners very carefully for disclaimers. Desperate people do desperate things and this suggests Nissan are desperate.
Also, by the way, I've encountered LEAFs that were charging at 12 kW and 18 kW on 125 A DCFC. I notice that rate is off your charts. I wonder how hot the battery would have to be. This would be after freeway driving (70+ mph) in 110 F weather.
Good they increased the temp range limit. Hopefully the battery does not loose too much healt. Bjorn, do you know if this is possible to check the battery temperature on the Hyundai Kona (with an ODB?)?
Any cheap $2 aliexpress bluetooth will work fine. But if I remember correctly, they will drain power all the time. There are others that shut down completely when the car is shut-down.
I can guess the reason why charging current is different for different version of Leaf. Case: If 30kwh battery, it allow 30kw charging. Now, the battery is 40kwh, so it allow 40kw as example. Actually, it doesn't have any improvement. Of course, if the battery is larger, it allow faster charging speed. It is still old technology compare with Tesla. Tesla did all consideration since 2012 of Model S.
Now Nissan just needs to push a OTA software update to rapidgating LEAFs. But are they gonna? Tesla would have pushed the update within a couple of weeks. But can LEAF even update OTA?
You're the best Bjorn. Hey, NL to South Germany +/- 700kms, considering there are quite some charging stations on the road and in summer, would you do it with a Leaf 40kwh?
40KW might look better but far from an "amazing fix". Nissan still need a solid 50KW from 10% to 80% to be able to claim 40 minutes charge. @Bjorn, can you show the new charge curve and compare with older Leaf, Ioniq, or even new Kona. I bet new Leaf firmware still require twice the time to charge the battery for the same number of kilometers.
I would call it rapidgate less. Still charging speed is not what you expect from modern EV. I would like to see max speed every time I stop and plugin. Liquid cooling is a must. Did I miss it or were you supposed to replug at 48 Celsius?
Good video bjorn. I can't believe some of the comments. It is great that charging speed is faster. We know they are not putting liquid cooling in the 40 kWh but you have people on here saying rapidgate not fixed
Hi Bjørn. Are you sure that the charge speed depends on the higest temperature of the battery and not some kind of average? There is a ~15°C difference between the hot and the cold part of the battery. If charge speed depends on the average of the 3 temperature sensors, it could explain the faster charge speed. Maybe they didn't change anything in the software at all...
The high speed at 10 degrees is not fixed with software. I haven't had an update and my car seems to do 44kW from 29%gids with +2 degrees in the battery. When it was finished at 75% the average was 32kW and the temperature on the pack was 25 degrees. Its almost as if BMS cooses full power to heat up the battery when it's cold outsiden. In the summer I noticed I got over 45 degrees very fast and I guess this software will make that transition even faster. I wonder what effect that has on the last charge sessions.
still doesnt have quite the same charging profile as my 2016 30kwh leaf did. 45kw all the way up to 80% and then it started slowing down no matter what the temperature of the battery was, but that probably wasn't the best thing in the world. i havent managed to test it since they upgraded to software on it since it's still in new zealand and i'm in the UK now for 2 years, maybe you should test that next :P
Ambient is -7C, but second charge session takes the batter to 47C?!?! If ambient is 20C, it'd be cooking at 74C! I don't know if you can claim this as rapid gate fixed. It may be bit better in winter, but usage in any other season is still awful.
Bjorn, it would be interesting and helpful for you to give a car a functional rating based on the ratio of charging time:distance covered with a changing variable being average speed at a particular temperature. Would make for an interesting and useful spreadsheet to base purchase decisions on. What do you think? Warm regards from Australia, Rod.
Bjorn - super helpful video. Thanks. Really appreciated your editing together the previous charge rates. Would be really interested to know the firmware version from before/after the fix so I can pressure my dealer for the upgrade. Also are you using LeafSpy or LeafSpyPro? Thanks again.
I wonder how the 40kWh Leaf will go here in Australia when it is finally released this year. Our summers are quite hot. In Sydney we have just come out of 2 weeks of 37c-42c days.
Excellent video Bjorn. Is this an over the air update for all Mk2 Leafs, it just new ones, or do you have to go back to dealer to get it updated? Thanks. The PlugSeeker
I'm hoping software updates like this will at least be part of Nissan's annual service. I'm not sure that I'd want over-the-air updates, even though Tesla seem have managed it without mishaps.
Are you sure is fix, maybe the car make a calculation with outside temperature and decided to charge a little faster with projection related to the outside temp? 30 kw instead of 22 in summer??? Not fix at all to my point of view, you just use outside temp to improve the rapidgate.
When you consider the outside temp it’s strange that the battery wasn’t cooled more. I thought that Nissan used air cooling for battery management but on the basis of your testing it seems not. Also as you said in your vlog what is this software update going to do for battery degradation, me thinks Nissan are back to square one or perhaps I should be saying customers are left to carry the can.
The use of air cooling is the less efficient technic. It is the basic and dont cost a lot of money to Implement. Thats why Nissan cost less that the Bold or Tesla.
Alain Sylvestre I understand that, but it still seems odd to me that when the outside temperature is so low Nissan are still unable to cool the batteries with any degree of efficiency. In the long term it’s going to be the customer who’ll land up paying for this poor design.
@@wobby1516 I think (not sure) but their air cooling dont get in the battery pack. It is seal and maybe that air flow just around it. very not the best system.
Would it be possible to confirm this is a software update and available for Nissan dealers? I have got a 30.000 km service interval maintenance coming up next week. @bjorn?
Do you have the old chart available somewhere? I did get yesterday 45kW to a battery pack that was 25% SoC and 3 degrees celsius. Although at 50% SoC it had throttled down to 30kW. Pack was heated up by 11 degrees. Still 37kW average for the session. (Old BMS, version 5SH3A) BTW if possible please access the service screen from LeafSpy and check the version of BMS? It is the one that says ”HV BATTERY”. I guess it is 5SH2C or 5SH3B/C.
i drove my 2018 leaf for 30 minutes. about 35 kms on -10 celsius.Then i charged on a 50kw dc fast charger but my leaf took only 18 - 22 kw.. The battery temp was warm enough. What was the problem? Tried to charge on two different fast chargers with same result. Help pls. @Bjørn Nyland
With 50 degrees on the Batt Pack, I was wondering: With a fossil car, I rarely use the A/C in the winter as the engine get's hot and the normal vents pick up the heat from the engine ... but in an electric car, there's no engine, so no "heat"... why not use the same and bring those 50 degrees back to the cabin so we can save battery on A/C? :)
That's true, if they could force air through the battery the heat could be used to heat the cabin. But then I suppose the problem would be getting the air right into the centre of the battery where the heat is, not just the edges, and to do that they'd have to pack the cells less densely to enable air to flow between them.
Temp maxed out a 2019 40 KWH this week. Fast charge, 130 mile drive on the highway, another fast charge. The battery was not hot (middle of temp display) before the second charge. Temps in the mid-60s F. Great car but not well suited for fast charging. Had I L1 or L2 charged it for the second charge, no problem.
Just a guess on the distances to routes. The other day, on another video with the [white?] Leaf, when you were showing us the maps by moving your finger down the route, the distance was incrementing in straight lines or, as we say in the UK, as the crow flies. Basically, the shortest distance through the air. The road route will, of course, always be much more, unless it's an arrow straight road. It occurred to me then because there seemed to be some discrepancy between the distance you'd allowed for and the distance before you hit your destination. And yeah, it's ridiculous that the display shows the direct distance by default and not the road. BTW, you do eat some awful food while on the road. Mind you, the smokey chicken salad looked nice a few videos ago. 😁
You are the best EV review guy on TH-cam. Love your videos.
I'm learning so much about where to eat when I visit Norway! 😆 Keep up the great videos.
Thank you Bjorn this was a very useful video. I took delivery of the 40 kWh Nissan eNV200 in October 2018 and it has been brilliant. I heard at the time that Nissan has fixed the 'rapidgate' issues but I am glad you confirmed it with the later released models. Thank you for taking the time to explain the difference between the old and new version. Keep up the good work.
Do you think the 40kWh e-NV200 is practical for long road trips? I have a VW Caddy and also a 40kWh LEAF, and I usually use the van for long trips: replacing the van with an e-NV200 would be a big decision! How does it compare with the LEAF charging performance as shown in this video?
@@anahatamelodeon from what the dealership said and based on research the env200 was designed from the outset to be used daily as a commercial vehicle so it can cope with multiple rapid charges. I have had not issues charging 2 and sometimes 3 times in a day. I think you might have a tougher decision and that would be whether to buy now or wait for the 60 kWh version!
@@SaffyMirza I haven't heard that there will be a 60kWh version of the e-NV200: have you? (and I have seen one article on line that said it was unlikely, but I don't know on what evidence. If there is going to be one, I'll wait for it) As for the 60kWh LEAF: Kia Niro would be a better choice, or something else better still by the time I want to change cars in a few year's time
@@anahatamelodeon I am just hypothesising, because the eNV200 is a design that is now 5 years old and in need of a refresh, its a ripe candidate to look more like the rest of the Nissan 'corporate face' Its a good vehicle with its little quirks but can save any commercial operation a lot of money using it daily. As far as I know its still the only 7 seat electric vehicle apart from the Tesla model X. Nissan would be daft to not develop this into a best seller in the commercial mid sized van segment.
The env200 has battery cooling so won't have same issues as LEAF
Ambient temperature (-7) versus battery temperature (43 average) gives a temperature difference (delta T) of 50 degrees. In summer the temperature difference between battery and ambient will be around 25 degrees (50-25) max. This results in a cooling capacity (in winter) of at least twice of the summer capacity. In summer I noted (driving 110 on the Leaf speedometer) absolutely no cooling of the battery after the second charge (one red block in Leaf gauge). Starting the third charge was slow (19 kW) due to too warm battery.
Sooo, fixed? NO!. Usability in winter has improved, second fast-charge speed in summer has improved.
Bjorn, it would be nice if you did the same test in summer conditions.
+Eric Claasen th-cam.com/video/_Nv8SSdVvj8/w-d-xo.html
@@bjornnyland Yep, I saw that; that was with the old BMS software I think?.
Since Nissan (or 'TH-cam') claims to have 'fixed' the issue with new software (I got (maybe beta?) that at the end of June last year) it would be interesting to see what will happen in summer. Maybe the software I got in summer was improved later? I don't know. All I know is that the second fast charge was so quick that it heated up the battery. In summer (27 degrees ambient) it did not cool down at all; The third fast charge was only 19 kW (it started with the first red dot in the Leaf gauge). I really like your vids; keep up the good work!
Safety check: front visibility, "within tolerance".
@@theta2170 0:18 I don't see anything wrong with visibility here.
The A pillars are quite thick, but the thing that is really noticeable compared to the old Leaf is the rear view mirror which is low down and does seem to obscure a large chunk of windscreen.
OMG, they didnt understood the kiding,did they?
I drove the German e-cannonball from Hamburg to Munich in my August 2018 delivered Leaf2. I wondered why I got much better speeds than most people on youtube got. I did 7 DC charges and drove 95km/h as you did. The temperature when I left the later charges was 52°C and had dropped to 44°C when I got to the next one and I always received 34kW max. charge rate. The temps from about half the trip to it's end stayed in that 44°-52° range then.
That corresponds with my results.
@@bjornnyland WOW, so Nissan reacted quietly but much quicker than expected. My car was produced early August 2018 and already then had a fix installed.
Well I guess the rapidgate software was what the real engineers wanted, and the new software is what the PR people wanted.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the useable capacity goes down if a battery gets colder or warmer. Some Samsung Lithium-Ion batteries for example: 25°C: 100%, 0°C & 40°C: 80%.
The old software had a very obvious bug. The maximum charging speed should always be directly related to the current battery temperature. That was clearly not the case with the old software. It just checked the temperature once at the beginning of the charging. I would even bet, that they just had a fixed charging curve with the old system, and they multiplied it with the temperature at start.
If you have another opinion, please explain to me, why it makes sense, that the old version sometimes charged with 40 kW on a hot battery (if it was cold in the beginning), but as soon as you restarted the charging, it immediately dropped to 20.
Yes that was indeed pretty stupid. But as can be seen in the video, the threshold for throttling is now set at a lot higher value.
The two issues have nothing to do with each other.
I live in Spain, even with this fix I don't think DC fast charging would be a viable option for a trip from spring to autumn. It would be way too slow, ambient temps in summer are over 30 deg C in most places. For me, no active battery cooling = no buy
60kWh Leaf for you then.
I'm thinking maybe a base Tesla Model 3 (if and when available) is going to be better than a LEAF for any long trips, especially with likely status of charging networks here in the near future. The DC charger provided at the local Nissan dealer doesn't seem to even briefly exceed 18 kW. This prevents any overheating but takes too long if you are in a hurry to get somewhere.
@@bobsampson5122 a model 3 LR is double the price of the leaf. A base model 3 is still two ticks above the leaf price.
@@Cosmycal As long as I know, 60kw new leaf will not include active cooling. I wish i am wrong, but check the following link: www.electrive.com/2018/12/04/exclusive-long-range-leaf-to-debut-without-liquid-cooling/
@@W0lfenstein3D Not quite double, but nearly. I'm not talking about the long range model. Base TM3 (if and when available) will be $35K USD (or less) without counting on any incentives. A 2019 LEAF SL with ProPilot and 60 kWh battery (no active thermal management) will be about $47K before incentives. I'm saying that I think the Tesla will be the better choice.
Great news, in the market for a used leaf 40 and this has pushed me towards it. Need to know this software update is applicable to older leaf 40s too. Any contacts to find out?
Bjorn, great insight. Thanks. Was planning to buy e-NV200 but the rapidgate changed my mind. I'm in hot weather... Not an eco car if your battery degrades and need replacement.
The 40 kWh eNV200 has the active thermal management that the Leaf lacks. Ask 40 kWh eNV200 owners about their experiences before you shut the door on the vehicle you want.
@@Markle2k NV200 40Kwh has termal management in deed, but only when the car is fired up/ running, so it's dificult to leave it changing while you are doing something else.
I wouldn't call it "fixed".
I would call it "mitigated" to some extend.
You are driving fairly slow at rather slow speeds and additionally started with an almost frozen battery pack.
So that means in summer you might realistically expect one charge at full speed, maybe 2 if you drive slowly.
And the battery probably be not too happy, to be baking north of 40 or even 50 degrees for a lengthy period of time.
For comparison: When I tested the Leaf in early summer in Germany at 120/130 km/h at around 25 degrees I didn't manage a single charge at full speed because the battery was too hot from driving alone.
+Thoralf Will Keep in mind that Tesla batteries operate at 30-50°C.
@@bjornnyland Does the temperature stay at 50 degrees on a Tesla or peak there for a brief moment?
The Leaf does not have any meaningful ways of cooling the battery pack and in summer, with temperatures of 20 or 30 degrees outside, it won't drop even when driving 90 km/h. So whatever temperature you reach at the charger - you will stay there during the next leg.
I don't think that 50 degrees are bad - as long as they do not occur frequently and or for a lenghty period of time.
People with more technical knowledge: Please correct me, if I'm wrong.
PS: My Kona still needs to be baptized. Bumblebee (my IONIQ) has been sold in November. :P
@@ThoralfWill , what color has the Kona?
my kona's name: "BlueSpirit" lol
Who buys a Leaf to Drive over 120 kilometers? That's like buying flip flops for a marathon?
@@yodagerhard8389 For availability reasons: boring grey
I repeated your test with my August 2018 Tekna Leaf with TCU Software version 423235 and I also got good numbers!
37°C: 40 kW
39°C: 40 kW
42°C: 36 kW
Is the TCU not the telemetrics control unit? I thought I read this before? Good numbers though!
@@atticus717 I'm not sure, some early Leaf's have 423232, some later models have 423237, I'm wondering what diagnostic key/value pair indicates the rapidgate fix
@@johantoday The comments in here delve into this more, unsure if you've got the means to check this?
th-cam.com/video/OGuBXFkwhYE/w-d-xo.html
There's a discussion of serial number effects in here too www.speakev.com/threads/rapid-charge-software-change-fixes-rapid-gate.132276/page-2
I'd be interested in your numbers! :)
@@atticus717 I have the 'C' version: 5SH2C HV BATTERY that means my is car fixed! If your version ends with 'A' or 'B' then your battery will rapidgate :(
Brilliant video,as usual.Now we need to update an old car previously featured with rapid gate issue and see if it solves the charging issue.realistically most folks don’t go more than 3 charges in one go, but if you need to it would be good to know you can
Glad Nissan finally woke up and fixed the Leaf problem. Thanks for letting us know; it might help Nissan with a few hundred more sales from people like me.
Thank you! Im going to try my leaf from Ski to Espa. I hope the buns are worth the drive. keep it up Bjørn!
Indeed another very clever testing from Prof. Nyland ; brought the Leaf 40 back to my closer choice for an EV in 2019. I don`t see an issue with batterydegradation using the new software. Please find more healthy food on your trips, young man!
We have got the car on first monday in july and never experienced rapidgate with high temperatures. Actually our results same as yours. This was fixed long time ago. good video :-)
A temperture split inside the battery from around 15´C is not a good sign...hotspots will degrade some cells faster
@björn could you ask nissan when they retrofit the 60 kwh battery in my japonleaf...
Like to see more of these tests in the summer when it's hot, like Florida hot.
Great! This software setting will probably be better suited for the average user.
My experience with navigation systems is that when selecting locations they always give the distance to that point "as the crow flies", and don't show the actual on-road driving distance until a route is locked in. If the Leaf still does the straight-line distance when you're travelling on a programmed route that's weird, unusual and probably a bug.
If Rapid-gate is fixed, that's great, and while it may increase degradation unless the owner is doing mostly long hauls it's probably not a huge issue, or at least not a large difference from nornal Leaf battery degradation from not having good thermal management in any situation at all.
They should let the owner decide if he wants rapidgate or degradationgate. Or an override with pop up “rapid charging at these temperatures will increase battery degradation, click OK to proceed, or CANCEL.”
And of course the BMS will use an algorithm that continually adjusts maximum charging speed such that your battery will degrade at the maximum amount NOT covered by warranty. Sort of like what Tesla does.
You are assuming that the new charging rules hurt the batteries. We don't know yet. And I bet Nissan wouldn't hurt the batteries and cause more warranty replacements if it wasn't safe. Keep in mind that Tesla batteries operate at 30-50°C when driving and supercharging.
Bjørn Nyland, we already know it’s a FACT that faster charging at higher temps WILL certainly increase degradation. And as I said, Nissan can protect itself in the warranty by using an algorithm that lets you degrade to the maximum amount without reaching the warranty coverage. But forget having a battery that lasts 10 years.
An also as I said, this should be a customer choice, just like in a Tesla, who can choose 0-100% or 30%-80%, and decide in advance if he wants his battery to last 10 years, or not.
Your Tesla model X has no degradation warranty, it only gets replaced when it has a failure. But if you degraded it 70% and Tesla looks at your history, they can say that is normal for your usage.
@@EVPaddy now they have stopped producing own batteries.
I think the new Nissan Leaf 2.0 Plus (60 kWh) has now LG Chem, but without good TMS.
The next disaster can happens.
@@EVPaddy back that up with facts! Nissan has replaced two battery packs here in all of Norway. How many battery packs has Bjørn gone through? Two new packs! His Model S and X have gotten new batterie's. I have had all versions of the Leaf. Driven from Norway to Lithuania on many occasions in high temperatures. My battery has been up to 56 Celsius a few times. After 30000+ kilometers' driven I have less than 2% battery degradation and SOH 100%. There are many stupid people who own EV's and have no idea on what they are doing when it comes to charging and or propper battery maintenance. I have seen people leave their EV's at a very low SOC in extreme cold and high SOC ib high temperatures for extended periods. This is not good for the battery. So Nissan nor the others can avoid ignorance of the owners. But, you need to bring the battery up to high temperature once in a while to break down the Dendrites.
@@EVPaddy I have only seen 1 Leaf with 1 bar lost and I have seen many of these cars. Look at this article for instance. www.zap-map.com/electric-taxi-company-clocks-100000-miles-in-nissan-leaf/
What you said at the end basically describes how we're going to use our Leaf: almost always charging at home, but 3 or 4 times a year making ~250-300 mile (400-480 km) trips, where obviously 2 or 3 fast charges per journey will be needed. So battery degradation won't really be a concern for us, whereas it'll be nice to know we'll still be able to get fast charging speeds when we need them. This is in the UK, where ambient temperature is usually 23° at most.
Yes! At last they fixit. It is not clear what version do the thing. When that car was build ? You could see it with the sticker on the door. You are
Right about that we need fast charging not often for the casual user like me. But we want fast charging occassionally for longer trip. Great video, thank for taking Time to do the test.
Great job, Bjorn !
With luck the software upgrade will be available worldwide .
You're driving the improvements forward .
Fantastic the leaf can charge 32 kW at 41°C when an Ioniq charge at 66kW.
Great job Nissan.
It was -7 or -3°C with and very fast speed (88km/h).
The leaf is ready to do the 24H of Le Mans in only 3 days.
We are lucky the Leaf born EV and not fossil.
If you need more fast charging there's a 60kWh Leaf for those.
@@Cosmycal Were is the 60kWh Leaf ? In 1 or 2 years ? With chadémo ? Fantastic in Europe.
The Leaf can take more bananas boxes but it's not a good EV to travel, sorry.
The 60kWh Leaf can have the same problem when the 39kWh ioniq coming to "kick is ass".
Make a ioniq 64kWh battery and the game is done 600km (hat very high speed about 93km/h) before charging the first time and charging 30mn to do 250-300km more.
That's 850km for 30mn charging, no time anymore to go restroom or eating unhealthy food.
No problemo have a good day, it's just to laugh.
@@djeffhawk7987 It's public reveal is estimated in one week at the CES, and will be in dealers around May 2019 according to last sources. I don't consider ChaDeMo as a problem right now, there's a lot of them out there. Also the Leaf is selling more than the Ioniq, don't see it kicking ass.
@@Cosmycal If you look at the temperature, rapidgate is pretty much thermal issue, not capacity issue. Last I heard, 60kWh still won't have liquid thermal management, unsure if it'll be sealed box like current Leaf. If like current Leaf, rapidgate will still be there.
Thanks Bjorn great test. I have a November 2018 UK Nissan Leaf 40kwh. Hopefully mine has had this software upgrade too! I will check tomorrow and see if the software numbers match the ones shown in your video.
Anyone looked at levels of battery degradation on the Leaf 2 (40/62 kwh)? Would be interesting to know if the new BMS is causing more degradation..
Yes Bjørn. You can trust this distanse number while driving. It's only when stationary you can't 😉
02:58
That's a nasty "feature"/bug.
They should have just installed a battery cooling system...
Yes, but at the benefice of a greater cost $.
Have a leaf from september 2018. Charging today in Bergen -1 degrees outside. 45KW speed between 30% and 45% soc. temp went from 10 degrees to 16 degrees. Down hill after that. Aborted charging at 65% soc, 20.5 degrees on battery and only 28KW charge speed.. That's way below your charts.
+Kim Kristiansen *kW
I love your vlogs, you hit the nail on the head every time. Please can you repeat the test in the summer so we can see a comparison with different ambient temperatures?
Nissan are one of the few motor manufacturers to embrace and promote electric vehicles, so they deserve a lot of credit for that. They have made a mistake by omitting to include battery thermal management, but I'm sure they'll correct that with future versions of the Leaf and other cars. I was waiting for the 40kW Leaf to be released but was disappointed and put of by Rapidgate issue and bought an i3 instead.
Hi Bjorn Thx for the test. Can we get the software versions of this car with fixed rapidgate?
If this is software fix, I wander if Nissan can apply it to earlier production.
Just thinking exactly the same thing.
I hope zo!
Probably, they need to finish final testing first.
The question is, how would a consumer know whether they were buying a LEAF that had been fixed? Has Nissan done a recall to fix all previous LEAFs?
They are probably still testing before opening an internal campaign.
If it only is a software change, it would be released OTA at some point (well, at Tesla at least) or installed when you are in the shop for your next inspection (most other car manufacturers; most of the time they won't tell you about updates, but do them anyways).
@@DerKatzeSonne Nissan didn't put that functionality into their car, so you'd have to have a dealer flash the firmware.
Great news, waiting for your next video
Those temps still seem high and i would love to see this redone on a hot summer day. Where i live in the summer it easily hits 90F here and i'd think this thing would be smoking at those temps. I still wouldn't waste money on this..maybe used for around town running. Long term i'd worry about the pack. Nissan needs to Tesla cool this thing.--this car is another reason i'll stick to fossil for long distance driving until gasoline becomes insanely overpriced or non existent...or i'm dead.
I thing lower or higher charging speed means the same final battery temperature. Lower speed produce less heat in the same time period of course, but you charge much longer time! And on very high temp there is charging speed throttling too. So there won't be higher degradation, only faster charging during regular using.
That is a very good point that many skeptics totally fail to understand.
Maybe worth retesting in summer to see if ambient temperature being low in winter is less risky for battery to be hot? You need some butter for your dry buns.....
+Mark Milligan th-cam.com/video/_Nv8SSdVvj8/w-d-xo.html
@@bjornnyland I meant this version, I realise the old version had issues but this later version may behave differently in winter compared to summer? Like your tests, very handy for someone considering buying an eV
the questions is if its just software change means it allows the battery pack to overheat. Means Nissan will have to change more often degraded packs. I wonder if this software will be available to work on earlier 2018 Leafs??
My leaf 40kwh bought new early october still have the rapidgate issue. Holmestrand-Trondheim 550km in -5 to -14 C conditions, and reduced charging speed on third charge.
+hkristian Do you use LeafSpy?
@@bjornnyland No, so my experience is only from Leafs dash. Last 3 charges max 32 to about 20 at Hanestad, Alvdal and Berkåk. Was suprised the temps didnt go down even when ambient was -14c and I was driving like a grandma.
Have you tried driving at 30 kph?
The HV battery version (BMS) is not in the secret display in the nav unit. It is in leafspy Pro. Under service menu and ecu version. Did you check what BMS version Leafspy reports?
+Joseph Man Fung Tang Check out the end of the live stream.
Nice test as always. Thank you for the work! Questions: Is there no any radiator in the front? Is there some space for? Do you know any solution (maybe from 3rd party) to improve cooling the Leaf battery? Best would be a radiator with extra fan doing liquid cooling something arround the battery. Maybe adding heatpipes or what-o-ever. But no any hardware is foolish from Nissan. So doing a cooling upgrade will be on top of a tuning list for this car.
How the results on battery charging done at 0 degrees Celsius are relevant anywhere else when temperatures are higher than that?. If you the same thing is done at least at 21 degrees Celsius or higher then this is informative or useful. Good to know battery remains cool when temperature outside is 0 degrees Celsius. Wouldn’t have imagined that without this video 😅.
I guess they changed the battery from AESC Cells to the LGChem cells already. Maybe the LGChem ones have lower resistance and produce less wasteheat while charging. 🤔
Nope, still NMC AESC cells.
The new AESC ones already have lower resistance than the previous version.
I think, the #rapidgate is not fixed, but there is a better usablilty.
In hot sommer days the battery will be cooked more as now. And the SOH will not better in future.
You're just assuming. And we don't know yet what will happen with SoH. Teslas keep the battery at 35-50°C when driving.
@@bjornnyland , the title of your video says: "Rapidgate has been fixed" this is a statement, not a question. And this statement is wrong. You know exactly what i mean.
You're mixing slow charging with degradation. That's two different topics. Rapidgate is about slow charging. You know that well. So my statement is correct. You did watch the live stream or the video before commenting, right?
Do you really think Nissan would purposely degrade the battery faster and cause more warranty repairs? I don't think so.
@@bjornnyland Has the Tesla active cooling ? To me having watched the whole test it looks like Nissan has modified or even disabled some of the thermal management on the battery to accommodate the higher charging speeds. Had the Leaf a great reputation for longevity of it's batteries this might have been acceptable. As it is I would read the T's&C's of the update for existing owners very carefully for disclaimers. Desperate people do desperate things and this suggests Nissan are desperate.
Does the Leaf has a battery heater?
Power? Heating targed? When engaged?
Yes, it has a heater (some specific packs for certain regions not due to different weather) to prevent battery freezing.
Also, by the way, I've encountered LEAFs that were charging at 12 kW and 18 kW on 125 A DCFC. I notice that rate is off your charts. I wonder how hot the battery would have to be. This would be after freeway driving (70+ mph) in 110 F weather.
19:15 All for science!
Fly to Australia to replicate this test in the summer desert right NOW!
+Cue Pusher Buy me the flight tickets and hotel RIGHT NOW!!!111
Hej Björn! Do you check and equalize the tyre pressures between the different tests, or what pressure du you use?
Good they increased the temp range limit.
Hopefully the battery does not loose too much healt.
Bjorn, do you know if this is possible to check the battery temperature on the Hyundai Kona (with an ODB?)?
Yes, by using Torque Pro.
@@bjornnyland thanks. Do you recommand an odb hardware? Shall it be bluetooth or wifi? I use an Android phone
Any cheap $2 aliexpress bluetooth will work fine. But if I remember correctly, they will drain power all the time. There are others that shut down completely when the car is shut-down.
ok, I will pick one of the list (ELM37):
torque-bhp.com/wiki/Bluetooth_Adapters
I can guess the reason why charging current is different for different version of Leaf. Case: If 30kwh battery, it allow 30kw charging. Now, the battery is 40kwh, so it allow 40kw as example. Actually, it doesn't have any improvement. Of course, if the battery is larger, it allow faster charging speed. It is still old technology compare with Tesla. Tesla did all consideration since 2012 of Model S.
Now Nissan just needs to push a OTA software update to rapidgating LEAFs. But are they gonna? Tesla would have pushed the update within a couple of weeks. But can LEAF even update OTA?
i dont think it can
Probably a dealer update campaign not OTA.
THX, is it possible, that they connect the AC to the battery pack? At -7°C it's not working but in summer?
I wonder what would happen if you tested in Marrakech in the summer, where the outside temperature is 50 degrees celcius.
Great video Bjorn, can you tell me what mounts you are using for you phones please and what’s the secret of getting them to stick properly?
Just use a good mount. My mount is not in stores anymore. It has a sticky rubber surface.
www.haguecamerasupports.com/car-mounts-suction-pads/
You're the best Bjorn. Hey, NL to South Germany +/- 700kms, considering there are quite some charging stations on the road and in summer, would you do it with a Leaf 40kwh?
Great news mate! Ps bjørn what tyre size did you're friends leaf have fitted? The smaller 205s are around 8% better efficiency
+Fancy a Bev Mate? 17"
Circumference is different on 205/55/16 and 215/50/17. Thats why its more "efficient"
40KW might look better but far from an "amazing fix". Nissan still need a solid 50KW from 10% to 80% to be able to claim 40 minutes charge. @Bjorn, can you show the new charge curve and compare with older Leaf, Ioniq, or even new Kona. I bet new Leaf firmware still require twice the time to charge the battery for the same number of kilometers.
I would call it rapidgate less. Still charging speed is not what you expect from modern EV. I would like to see max speed every time I stop and plugin. Liquid cooling is a must. Did I miss it or were you supposed to replug at 48 Celsius?
Don't think so, liquid cooling may be a must for some people, not everybody needs it.
Good video bjorn. I can't believe some of the comments. It is great that charging speed is faster. We know they are not putting liquid cooling in the 40 kWh but you have people on here saying rapidgate not fixed
Hi Bjørn.
Are you sure that the charge speed depends on the higest temperature of the battery and not some kind of average? There is a ~15°C difference between the hot and the cold part of the battery. If charge speed depends on the average of the 3 temperature sensors, it could explain the faster charge speed. Maybe they didn't change anything in the software at all...
+Mark Olaf Slot Trust me. They did a big change. Wait for the next video.
making it dependent on the average makes technically zero sense.
The high speed at 10 degrees is not fixed with software. I haven't had an update and my car seems to do 44kW from 29%gids with +2 degrees in the battery. When it was finished at 75% the average was 32kW and the temperature on the pack was 25 degrees. Its almost as if BMS cooses full power to heat up the battery when it's cold outsiden.
In the summer I noticed I got over 45 degrees very fast and I guess this software will make that transition even faster. I wonder what effect that has on the last charge sessions.
Happy new year.. Good video. Thank you Bjørn. Wich software do you use with your phone Samsung ?
+Olivier Magnenat LeafSpy
still doesnt have quite the same charging profile as my 2016 30kwh leaf did. 45kw all the way up to 80% and then it started slowing down no matter what the temperature of the battery was, but that probably wasn't the best thing in the world. i havent managed to test it since they upgraded to software on it since it's still in new zealand and i'm in the UK now for 2 years, maybe you should test that next :P
Aren't all Li-ion batteries supposed to slow down after 80%? My ebike does unless I charge it on the absolutely slowest setting.
Now let's do a race! Old software vs. new software! :-D
Ambient is -7C, but second charge session takes the batter to 47C?!?! If ambient is 20C, it'd be cooking at 74C! I don't know if you can claim this as rapid gate fixed. It may be bit better in winter, but usage in any other season is still awful.
Nissan should do the right thing and bring active cooling to the Leaf just like on the e-NV200.
I love these videos but the dash just screams distracted driving. Drive safe Bjorn.
That's great news!!! Thanks for that video
Bjorn, it would be interesting and helpful for you to give a car a functional rating based on the ratio of charging time:distance covered with a changing variable being average speed at a particular temperature. Would make for an interesting and useful spreadsheet to base purchase decisions on. What do you think? Warm regards from Australia, Rod.
You need to do a race with this leaf vs Bolt EV or Ioniq !
Ampera-e would win big time.
Bjorn - super helpful video. Thanks. Really appreciated your editing together the previous charge rates. Would be really interested to know the firmware version from before/after the fix so I can pressure my dealer for the upgrade.
Also are you using LeafSpy or LeafSpyPro? Thanks again.
I wonder how the 40kWh Leaf will go here in Australia when it is finally released this year. Our summers are quite hot. In Sydney we have just come out of 2 weeks of 37c-42c days.
*kWh
@@bjornnyland Thanks. Edited.
Excellent video Bjorn. Is this an over the air update for all Mk2 Leafs, it just new ones, or do you have to go back to dealer to get it updated? Thanks. The PlugSeeker
I'm hoping software updates like this will at least be part of Nissan's annual service. I'm not sure that I'd want over-the-air updates, even though Tesla seem have managed it without mishaps.
Are you sure is fix, maybe the car make a calculation with outside temperature and decided to charge a little faster with projection related to the outside temp? 30 kw instead of 22 in summer??? Not fix at all to my point of view, you just use outside temp to improve the rapidgate.
When you consider the outside temp it’s strange that the battery wasn’t cooled more. I thought that Nissan used air cooling for battery management but on the basis of your testing it seems not. Also as you said in your vlog what is this software update going to do for battery degradation, me thinks Nissan are back to square one or perhaps I should be saying customers are left to carry the can.
The use of air cooling is the less efficient technic. It is the basic and dont cost a lot of money to Implement. Thats why Nissan cost less that the Bold or Tesla.
Alain Sylvestre
I understand that, but it still seems odd to me that when the outside temperature is so low Nissan are still unable to cool the batteries with any degree of efficiency. In the long term it’s going to be the customer who’ll land up paying for this poor design.
@@wobby1516 I think (not sure) but their air cooling dont get in the battery pack. It is seal and maybe that air flow just around it. very not the best system.
87 km + VAT = 105 km, qwik mafs
Do you know is they fixed e-NV200 aswell ?
Would it be possible to confirm this is a software update and available for Nissan dealers? I have got a 30.000 km service interval maintenance coming up next week. @bjorn?
Do you have the old chart available somewhere? I did get yesterday 45kW to a battery pack that was 25% SoC and 3 degrees celsius. Although at 50% SoC it had throttled down to 30kW. Pack was heated up by 11 degrees. Still 37kW average for the session. (Old BMS, version 5SH3A)
BTW if possible please access the service screen from LeafSpy and check the version of BMS? It is the one that says ”HV BATTERY”. I guess it is 5SH2C or 5SH3B/C.
Check the end of live stream.
Bjørn Nyland ok, will do, thanks!
5SH3C apparently.
still would love to see you test the triplets, smart car,
Is there a video testing model x's fast charging temperature rise and drop?
Why is 170 wh per KM amazing? My Renault ZE with similar drivetrain 41 KW batt generally consumes 154 WH per KM
i drove my 2018 leaf for 30 minutes. about 35 kms on -10 celsius.Then i charged on a 50kw dc fast charger but my leaf took only 18 - 22 kw.. The battery temp was warm enough. What was the problem? Tried to charge on two different fast chargers with same result. Help pls. @Bjørn Nyland
+colonel carrillo Battery was too cold.
What Obd2 you are Use?? Thanks
With 50 degrees on the Batt Pack, I was wondering:
With a fossil car, I rarely use the A/C in the winter as the engine get's hot and the normal vents pick up the heat from the engine ... but in an electric car, there's no engine, so no "heat"... why not use the same and bring those 50 degrees back to the cabin so we can save battery on A/C? :)
That's true, if they could force air through the battery the heat could be used to heat the cabin. But then I suppose the problem would be getting the air right into the centre of the battery where the heat is, not just the edges, and to do that they'd have to pack the cells less densely to enable air to flow between them.
Can we get a review of the hot dog?
It seems more like a patch than a fix. Without active cooling, still gets too hot. Let's see in summer.
Temp maxed out a 2019 40 KWH this week. Fast charge, 130 mile drive on the highway, another fast charge. The battery was not hot (middle of temp display) before the second charge. Temps in the mid-60s F. Great car but not well suited for fast charging. Had I L1 or L2 charged it for the second charge, no problem.
Will the older 2018 Leaf receive a software update to fix the issue?
Probably after Nissan finishes final testing.
Hello Bjorn, can you please tell me the name from the Android-App, which you use for the Watt measurement. Can i use this also in the i3 and Kona? thx
LeafSpy... only works for Leaf and e-NV200
Bjørn will you be doing a summary of your findings ?
yes
Hi folks. Is there somethings like leaf spy for Kia eNiro ?
+Ole Martin Mobæk Torque pro
Nice Test. Is it possible to take a Leaf on a lift to see the underbody?? Maybe it is possible to add some hoses for cooling or so.
Just a guess on the distances to routes. The other day, on another video with the [white?] Leaf, when you were showing us the maps by moving your finger down the route, the distance was incrementing in straight lines or, as we say in the UK, as the crow flies. Basically, the shortest distance through the air. The road route will, of course, always be much more, unless it's an arrow straight road. It occurred to me then because there seemed to be some discrepancy between the distance you'd allowed for and the distance before you hit your destination.
And yeah, it's ridiculous that the display shows the direct distance by default and not the road.
BTW, you do eat some awful food while on the road. Mind you, the smokey chicken salad looked nice a few videos ago. 😁
That's right, Sherlock!
Rambler Andy I think he is eating that food because if "wifey" was there he will eating just salad. :)
THX for thid Test!!!!!!
I think that only with software will not be good for the battery health
Anyone know or think it will be the same for the env-200? Im getting a new one delivered soon
As they said about red sky then it was said in lord of the rings .....lol good sheeeiit