More info: Leaf battery temperature dissipation when stationary is about 6% of the delta (between battery and ambient temp) per hour. With wind, this increases by a multiplier of +1 for every 20 to 30 km/h of wind speed. Peaking temperatures at the T1 sensor (e.g. after short acceleration or regen bursts) can dissipate more quickly, but only shaves off the cresting 1 - 2 Celsius peaks at most, then you're back to the 6% / hour normal dissipation rate. Worth driving super gently in the 5 minutes before a DC charge to allow any peaks to cool down, and optimise charging speed. With the new software, like Bjorn says, you should be able to get the 2nd or even 3rd DC fast charge in well under an hour, so long as you have been driving at moderate speeds (sub 110 km/h) and in moderate temperatures (sub 30 Celsius). If you are on much longer road-trips, and still want reasonably fast DC charges, once your battery temps your temps are above 40 Celisus, you should aim to drive gently enough to shave off roughly ~1 Celsius per 10% of state of charge used. Usually somewhere around 90 km/h (using 17 kW or power or less). This will only be possible if ambient temps are below 25 Celsius. If you're in the summer in Arizona or Southern Spain, or similar, you're out of luck - all DC charging will be pretty slow - get an EV with liquid thermal management. The new software will allow temperatures up to around 55 Celsius after a fast charge, and you want to aim to return to ~45 Celsius after the next driving stage. That should allow the next DC charge back to 80% to take about 60 minutes. Look for the article 'leaf driving strategy' for more details.
Great video as usual.I rang Nissan UK today and was told "we cant tell you if there is an update, that's technical as we wont know, you need to ring your dealer were not really here for that". So after this, I did contact my local dealer who then inputted my reg only to be told that no update exists for my April 2018 Tekna when they checked there system. Dealer told me to log an official request with Nissan UK. I emailed them on Saturday with no response so far.I will be ringing again.
People who don't care about degradation must be people with a lot of money and little rational on their property. I need to make a reasoned economical decision (TCO) for my business that is why I have to add degradation to the equation. Even with the rapidgate fix I think the car still lacks usability for what it is worth compared to Ionic. I am also concerned at how Nissan handles post-sale client support and car service. Thanks for the data and explanations.
Great Info. Looking to test drive a 2019 leaf (40kW pack) tomorrow. I am concerned about battery cooling, but this info put me at ease a bit. Sound like fast charge and long-distance driving are where issues come up. Don't really plan on doing either if I buy the car.
We did that with the e-Cannonball 2019 in Germany from Konstanz to Berlin (~830km). There were only two Nissan Leaf 40 kWh and one Nissan Leaf+ 62 kWh: Fastest Hyundai Ioniq: 9h36m, 14.4 kWh / 100km Most efficient Hyundai Ioniq: 10h06min, 14.2 kWh / 100km Most efficient / Fastest Nissan Leaf: 13h20min, 16.3 kWh / 100km Nissan Leaf+: 13h25min, 20.14 kWh / 100km All results can be found at mikenr1.bplaced.net/ecb-wp/endergebnisse/
Since some starting temperature is higher even with lower ambient, it seems to me it matters greatly how hard the car was driven. Did you record the average speed + time driven before charging? Ugh, Leaf drivers would face whole lot less problems if it came with active liquid thermal management.
Hi thanks for the great video and your efforts. I’m also a Canada 2018 leaf owner, I have few questions would like to ask. 1. Will be possible share the battery health before you tests, and after ur test, I want to know how the fast will effect the battery life. Myself, never use the fast charge, driven about 10k, my battery has gone to 96% health about 6month use. 2. In the car u tested, do you find a setting about stop charging @ 80%. Mine doesn’t have, but old leaf 24 and 30 seems have the function. Thank you, pls keep up make new good videos.
Great video bjørn but seriously how many people will regularly travel over 100 miles a day let alone 300 ;) you save so much money using bevs just hire a tesla P100D with the savings and have fun out running everything, ;) and having access to the brilliant super charging network ;)
I commute 110 miles daily in total, and I am not alone. Now I would guess based on time spent, that this is in the upper part of the spectrum of daily commuting distance.
Very interesting! I think this illustrates that it`s still quite early days for the EV yet. If a gasoline driven car had similar issues, for example routinely vaporlocking at the gas station unless you kept the temperature just so, it would be dead in the water. Perhaps that is why Nissan, with its great experience from normal cars, fixed this quietly?
Active battery cooling and heating is a nessecity. This new update can't be good for the battery pack degredation long term. Also who buys a car that can only drive 50mph or 90kph on a long trip? That's crazy! Shieeeeeeet
One question, is it worth waiting for ten minutes at a charging stop before charging to allow the pack to cool. Does this temperature drop offset and subsequent speed increase make up for the delay in starting?
Isn't it just patched? A proper fix would be active management, fan assisted cooling redesign. Just a question of degree of fix, I suppose. What do people think? Good video, BN. 👍
That would be better, but would require an entire rebuild of the battery and power-train, so not really an option. This 'fix' is just a patch to tweak the charging curve to allow slightly higher kW charge levels for a given battery temperature.
A correct design would include active liquid battery thermo-management. Which is now in question for the upcoming e-Plus. With this new 'patch' Nissan may believe the e-Plus can get by with a fan like the NV200. Degradation will be hard to measure and won't turn up for years. Lack of integrity.
Has anyone in the US been updated? This is going to end up a class action. This is not just lack of active thermal management. It is the manufacturer deciding to limit the car well below reasonable expectation in a misleading way to save warranty costs. When the software derates level 3 to bearly above level 2 after 1 charge it doesn't really have fast charge.
That's rather 'old school' these days. Now the battery'vehicle is purchased as one unit and guaranteed for longer than most people will keep the entire car
Hi James. Would you be willing to do a couple of runs in your early 18 leaf and measure the results of your DC rapid rates on the run. It would be really helpful to see if you notice any change to the rate of charge you are getting now. I think Nissan May have remotely updated some early leaf2 cars.
![เปิดบ้าน นาราเครปกระเทย 1 ไร่ ขายขาดทุนหลัก10ล้าน เอามาใช้หนี้!!! l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0jz84VFWVP4/mqdefault.jpg)
More info: Leaf battery temperature dissipation when stationary is about 6% of the delta (between battery and ambient temp) per hour. With wind, this increases by a multiplier of +1 for every 20 to 30 km/h of wind speed. Peaking temperatures at the T1 sensor (e.g. after short acceleration or regen bursts) can dissipate more quickly, but only shaves off the cresting 1 - 2 Celsius peaks at most, then you're back to the 6% / hour normal dissipation rate. Worth driving super gently in the 5 minutes before a DC charge to allow any peaks to cool down, and optimise charging speed.
With the new software, like Bjorn says, you should be able to get the 2nd or even 3rd DC fast charge in well under an hour, so long as you have been driving at moderate speeds (sub 110 km/h) and in moderate temperatures (sub 30 Celsius).
If you are on much longer road-trips, and still want reasonably fast DC charges, once your battery temps your temps are above 40 Celisus, you should aim to drive gently enough to shave off roughly ~1 Celsius per 10% of state of charge used. Usually somewhere around 90 km/h (using 17 kW or power or less). This will only be possible if ambient temps are below 25 Celsius. If you're in the summer in Arizona or Southern Spain, or similar, you're out of luck - all DC charging will be pretty slow - get an EV with liquid thermal management.
The new software will allow temperatures up to around 55 Celsius after a fast charge, and you want to aim to return to ~45 Celsius after the next driving stage. That should allow the next DC charge back to 80% to take about 60 minutes. Look for the article 'leaf driving strategy' for more details.
Great video as usual.I rang Nissan UK today and was told "we cant tell you if there is an update, that's technical as we wont know, you need to ring your dealer were not really here for that". So after this, I did contact my local dealer who then inputted my reg only to be told that no update exists for my April 2018 Tekna when they checked there system. Dealer told me to log an official request with Nissan UK. I emailed them on Saturday with no response so far.I will be ringing again.
Hi, did the same, dealer checked against VIN and no update advised!
It will be interesting what you get back from Nissan UK.
ditto, visited my dealer 07/01/19 and asked if there was an update for my 09/03/18 Tekna. No recall or any updates available.
I used the You+Nissan portal to log a customer complaint with Nissan Denmark.
People who don't care about degradation must be people with a lot of money and little rational on their property. I need to make a reasoned economical decision (TCO) for my business that is why I have to add degradation to the equation. Even with the rapidgate fix I think the car still lacks usability for what it is worth compared to Ionic. I am also concerned at how Nissan handles post-sale client support and car service. Thanks for the data and explanations.
Great Info. Looking to test drive a 2019 leaf (40kW pack) tomorrow. I am concerned about battery cooling, but this info put me at ease a bit. Sound like fast charge and long-distance driving are where issues come up. Don't really plan on doing either if I buy the car.
Again an informative video which is really useful since I’ve just bought a 2018 Leaf thanks Bjorn! 🤩
It would be nice to see another race of Ionic vs Leaf rapidgate patched!
We did that with the e-Cannonball 2019 in Germany from Konstanz to Berlin (~830km). There were only two Nissan Leaf 40 kWh and one Nissan Leaf+ 62 kWh:
Fastest Hyundai Ioniq: 9h36m, 14.4 kWh / 100km
Most efficient Hyundai Ioniq: 10h06min, 14.2 kWh / 100km
Most efficient / Fastest Nissan Leaf: 13h20min, 16.3 kWh / 100km
Nissan Leaf+: 13h25min, 20.14 kWh / 100km
All results can be found at mikenr1.bplaced.net/ecb-wp/endergebnisse/
Bjorn saved........364'047 lbs of co2 and 289'050 gallons of gasoline.
Wow Bjorn that is a lot of polar bears saved
I have a 2010 nissan diesel
Since some starting temperature is higher even with lower ambient, it seems to me it matters greatly how hard the car was driven. Did you record the average speed + time driven before charging? Ugh, Leaf drivers would face whole lot less problems if it came with active liquid thermal management.
Hi thanks for the great video and your efforts.
I’m also a Canada 2018 leaf owner, I have few questions would like to ask.
1. Will be possible share the battery health before you tests, and after ur test, I want to know how the fast will effect the battery life.
Myself, never use the fast charge, driven about 10k, my battery has gone to 96% health about 6month use.
2. In the car u tested, do you find a setting about stop charging @ 80%.
Mine doesn’t have, but old leaf 24 and 30 seems have the function.
Thank you, pls keep up make new good videos.
Professor Dr Nyland :) Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit. Great explanation. Thx
Great video bjørn but seriously how many people will regularly travel over 100 miles a day let alone 300 ;) you save so much money using bevs just hire a tesla P100D with the savings and have fun out running everything, ;) and having access to the brilliant super charging network ;)
I commute 110 miles daily in total, and I am not alone. Now I would guess based on time spent, that this is in the upper part of the spectrum of daily commuting distance.
Very interesting! I think this illustrates that it`s still quite early days for the EV yet. If a gasoline driven car had similar issues, for example routinely vaporlocking at the gas station unless you kept the temperature just so, it would be dead in the water. Perhaps that is why Nissan, with its great experience from normal cars, fixed this quietly?
Active battery cooling and heating is a nessecity. This new update can't be good for the battery pack degredation long term. Also who buys a car that can only drive 50mph or 90kph on a long trip? That's crazy! Shieeeeeeet
Great video... Elevation (+,-) will be super...
Let's wait and see if they put an active cooling on the new Leaf 60kWh... But rumors says it will be a sort of forced air cooling.
Yep, about 1/4 better than nothing I guess.
Conclusion, don't drive Leaf you have headache
One question, is it worth waiting for ten minutes at a charging stop before charging to allow the pack to cool. Does this temperature drop offset and subsequent speed increase make up for the delay in starting?
Isn't it just patched? A proper fix would be active management, fan assisted cooling redesign. Just a question of degree of fix, I suppose. What do people think? Good video, BN. 👍
That would be better, but would require an entire rebuild of the battery and power-train, so not really an option. This 'fix' is just a patch to tweak the charging curve to allow slightly higher kW charge levels for a given battery temperature.
A correct design would include active liquid battery thermo-management. Which is now in question for the upcoming e-Plus. With this new 'patch' Nissan may believe the e-Plus can get by with a fan like the NV200. Degradation will be hard to measure and won't turn up for years. Lack of integrity.
You can fool some of the people some of the time etc etc.
Has anyone in the US been updated?
This is going to end up a class action.
This is not just lack of active thermal management. It is the manufacturer deciding to limit the car well below reasonable expectation in a misleading way to save warranty costs. When the software derates level 3 to bearly above level 2 after 1 charge it doesn't really have fast charge.
I'm not a bad panda. I watched both
I don't believe anything from Nissan anymore
Dear Bjørn, how much ist Hydrogen H2 in Norway per kg?
Is it true you have to pay a monthly fee for the battery’s
No not for Nissan anymore but you have that option with Renault Zoe.
That's rather 'old school' these days. Now the battery'vehicle is purchased as one unit and guaranteed for longer than most people will keep the entire car
Hi James. Would you be willing to do a couple of runs in your early 18 leaf and measure the results of your DC rapid rates on the run. It would be really helpful to see if you notice any change to the rate of charge you are getting now. I think Nissan May have remotely updated some early leaf2 cars.
:)