The Warmaster is one of the best Titan designs in the canon, it would be an absolute shame if there wasn't a full size version eventually, not that I could afford one..
I’d buy one in a heartbeat. And so would a lot of Titan Owners Club members. I think the design was done with this in mind. The leg braces to support all the top weight and the large body cavity which could be empty to keep weight down. I do think the FW design thinking was “what is the largest bipedal Titan we could make in 28mm” taking into account weight issues on knees and leg splaying. If they had no intention of a future 28mm version, why make Warmaster at all? Why not skip straight to an Imperator as per the background fluff? Why make up a new intermediate size Titan class?
Glad to see some more cheesethoughts! My opinion on the Warmaster price is that it would be Too Damn High, but as you mention, people have been buying Warlords and the smaller Titans a lot, so who knows, maybe they'd sell a couple of dozen of those monsters!
A better thought: Who will try to build a high quality one on their own? With 3D printers, scanners and the quarter scale models all in ready reach, it's just a matter of effort to make your own full scale version.
Great to see a new video from the Big Cheese. Spot on. The guess was the same most of us had without the math. Imagine the price of Overlord flyer if they ever make it, easily over 800£
Matches my far less mathematical estimates, expecting £2,500-£3,000, probably closer to the 3 because of the chunkiness. It seems practical as a model though and looks like it was designed at the larger scale as, like the AT Warlord, it has sockets modelled on the side of the body for the pistons that attach to the upper arms, even though the pistons are only present on the full size version.
TH-cam hasn't been showing me your videos sir. I got worried and am glad you are still posting. I'm pretty sure the cost of a Warmaster Titan would include a marriage/relationship on top of your calculations. 🤣
Just when ya thought he was done, the Cheese comes back! Noice. Interesting topic. And I think you’d be about right. My initial guess was in the 2.5-3k mark. Easily. Would I buy one? Nah. I’ve only ever wanted a warhound. Got two AT ones and a full size one now so I’m groovy. I do, however know a good few who would buy one. I think I’d be very interested in seeing how they would also make the kit.
I've been lurking.... like a wheel of cheddar hiding in the pantry 🧀 Fun fact: Warhounds are awesome in Adeptus Titanicus rules... mine finished off a Warlord at the Titan Walk in November.
After seeing your numbers, my best guess would be around 3500£, or maybe 4500USD. Just my guess. I wouldn't buy one, not for even 2k USD. My money isn't that plentiful. But it great to see a fresh video Cheese! Miss you lots. 👍
I expected an above 3.000 pound price from the math alone. I think the Chungus Factor (C) is already considered with the plastic kit being more expensive.
Plastic full-size titans are the elephant in the room for sure.... they need high volume sales to make a financial success of plastic production, so the obvious first step would be the Warhound. Although I did hear a rumour (from Valrak IIRC) that plastic Cerastus Knights are coming soon - that would be fab.
@@leakycheese bigger than almost anyone really 😳 but i still await the day when somekind of land gunship bigger than a baneblade rolls out since already there are some primaris super heavies bigger than baney
Thanks, how’s it going? Heresy 2.0 is very good as a game (reactions make for a more tactical and involving game for both players), Marine armies are great, Mechanicum and Liber Imperium are decent but not at same quality. Legacies are a hilarious mess… some units are necessary and fine (e.g. Castra Ferrum Dreadnoughts and Carnodon) others are meh (anything on a Baneblade chassis, overpointed at 750 a pop vs. Fellblsde chassic tanks) and some are broken “That Guy” units (like the Fulmentarus and Loctarus).
@@leakycheese I’m doing well. Full disclosure, I’m the same guy that came across as a troll on your Mark VI video. I honestly didn’t mean to come across harsh, I just disagreed (and still do). Still, I reread what I wrote and I see how it sounds. Apologies. As far as 2.0, I’m not really feeling it. Note I’m a Salamanders player. I just don’t understand how the one thing we get, flamers, are useless against terminators. Terminators always had their invuln, but now they have two wounds plus a rerollable armour save. Not fair. Also, i don’t especially appreciate how much artillery was nerfed. In my experience, I feel that the new rules have actually condensed the army list selections you see in games. Everyone I played against is bringing massive blobs and several contemptors. Gone are the days when you see things like sicaran Venators and flyers. It’s a shame IMO because there are so many beautiful vehicle models for HH that are being ported to plastic, but people don’t play them. Even Leviathans are not efficient. GW made some big mistakes from a business perspective IMO. Why nerf tanks when you are bringing them to plastic? A disconnect between the people who are responsible for rules writing and the execs who are concerned with bottom line. Anyway, any chance we can have an army showcase? I always wanted to see that Word Bearers collection.
In the first instance I’d like to see them release the psi Titan, which would only require a new head, weapon arm and carapace on top of the existing warlord. Personally I feel they didn’t quite hit aesthetically with the design with these later titans (Warmaster and dire wolf)
I was just filling a part seam (poorly) and thinking of your videos what a treat to get a new one! I wonder what a price projection based on number of parts in the kit be. Or how many molds it would take to cast a warmaster titan I would think that if FW wanted a profitable kit and not a "halo" kit to borrow an auto industry term they would want the value they get out of each mood to be even higher than Normal as it would not be a fast selling kit. The other thought I had is if you look at the amount of mas above the hip joints it seems like a lot and while I'm not a materials scientist or engineer I would be concerned about all that weight supported by standard forgeworld resin. Did I hear somewhere that carbon fiber rods are recommend as pins in the larger titans or am i making that up? Thank for the thought provoking video.
I remember an interview when they first released the Warlord that they couldn’t build anything bigger specifically because the Warlord was the largest thing they could make in resin without it bowing under its own weight. And let me tell you, resin isn’t exactly the longest lasting of substances structurally.
Welcome back Nathan! In terms of the production economics of resin casting, a silicone mould is going to do 30-40 casts (or pulls) before requiring replacement (or quite a few more if it's been properly vulcanised). So for a Forge World model, the main up-front investment is in the digital design process and printing and preparation of the master model (which are 3D-printed and require clean up to remove printing strata-lines). So the probably don't need to sell that many to recoup these costs (especially as they've already paid for most of the design on the Warmaster with making it's epic variant). In terms of being able to support it's own weight, I've got a Warhound and a Warlord and these have been fine over several years of ownership. I reinforce joints with metal pins, sometimes several per joint, but the legs are strong enough to support the model's weight. Now, some poses might need through-limb pinning if they impose forces on the limbs high enough to cause the resin to bend over time. I've used carbon-fibre rod on the waist pin and arm weapon mounts... but that was in part due to there being an offcut of the right size in the bargain bin at my hobby store! But yeah, CF would be a good material to do through-limb pinning, it's easy to get at flying and other RC model stores. Finally the Warmaster - will it be able to support it's own weight as a full size resin kit? Personally, I think it has stout legs, notably more so that the Warlord on a like-for-like basis so I think those would be strong enough to support the massive body. On thr other hand, the Suzerain Plasma Annihilators are massive and I think the elbows would need some hefty pinning to make secure. Glad you enjoyed the video... if we do by some chance get a full-size Warmaster maybe I'll buy one and find out how to solve all these challenges!
You know what would have a bigger market? Plastic Titans! They’d cost half as much as the resin versions, weigh half as much, and triple maybe quadruple the number of people would be able to afford them, possibly more. But what do I know, only that plastic heresy has been a massive success for GW, with kits selling out almost as soon as they come in even with items being hard to keep in stock
Yeah plastic would be the way to go, I have a feeling it would be roughly 80% that of a warlord resin version would be, obviously it's going to be cheaper then a resin one but it's alot more plastic perhaps 75%. I guess they could make the upgrade kits like the head and weapons and keep in resin, but the body in plastic. One major hint, look at the cover of the Age of Darkness box, look at what is displayed in the image. I'm pretty sure there is a prototype of this, all part of their 5 year plan I guess.
Based on current FW prices, kits seem to be around two thirds of the cost the resin versions. I think next year will be interesting to see what comes about for the heresy. There are a lot of missing plastic kits for basic legion unit choices (Assault Squads, Seekers, Recon, Bikes, Jet Bikes, Speeders etc.) so I wonder if they'll focus on those? In terms of big things though, I hear a rumour that Cerastus Knights are coming soon in plastic.
@@leakycheese yes the knights first, I think next year will be a new age of darkness 2 boxset with different mark armour and X2 different legions on he cover, no all knights next year I figure will be plastic but guns and weapons maybe finecast. Perhaps they will do alternative heads in finecast aswell. Perhaps we may even see a new space marine race next year, rumors of a new chaos god are being talked about in AOS and 40k so I imagine there would be new law coming in, perhaps plastic warhound in 2 years, reaver titan in 3 years followed by the warlord and perhaps the warbring titan. I'd love if GW had a magazine where we would subscribe and build a titan in the hachette part works style. Perhaps this would open the door to new types of titans. All hypothetical ofc. I think the knights going plastic is a good chance of this, and new mark armours in plastic for sure.
Technically, you shouldn't do a linear regression on such a small sample, but I still think it's clear that the price ratios are incredibly consistent. Nice video 👍
I used the linear regression because the price ratios are so consistent. And don’t forget the data I used here isn’t a sample - for the phenomenon being studied it’s the entire population. Glad you enjoyed the video.
Omg, i dont have enough boxers if Forgeworld release a Waemaster full-size. And i think Leakys brain would explode 😘 ps: warlords is one of the few my wife love so I had bought it ;)
Surely be made to order & if they do different weapon loadouts they are gonna be hundreds by themselves. Would consider buying done buy in the current climate I doubt it will see the light of day.Great video to contemplate though.
There's also the factor: how many will we sell. Not sure it makes much of an impact at these volumes - I guess a similar number of people would stump up 1500 as 3000 quid for a titan. Probably the chungus factor makes up for that good enough 👍
The man, the myth the legend is back. I think they could build any Títan and charge what they want and still make money on it. People have to much money in this hobby 😂
Rumours of my demise were greatly exaggerated! I think there's probably a price at which essentially no one would buy a Warmaster. But there are plenty of people with disposable income for hobbies in general.... airsoft, flying RC models, scuba diving, airsoft, motorbikes etc. etc..
I don t think they LL ever produce one but your guess is quiet right. I'ld bet at 2.8 without weapon and creeping on 3k with. But I have allreyseen a full heroic scale one done with a 3d printing part and a scan of the plastic one.
Hello! I still have your Custodians and Mechanicum book! Drop me an email at Leakycheese@tutanota.com and we can sort it out. I'm also on Instagram and Twitter.
The Warmaster is one of the best Titan designs in the canon, it would be an absolute shame if there wasn't a full size version eventually, not that I could afford one..
Yay! A New Leakycheese Video!
*Fistbumps* 🤜🤛
Glad to see you back mate!
I’d buy one in a heartbeat. And so would a lot of Titan Owners Club members. I think the design was done with this in mind. The leg braces to support all the top weight and the large body cavity which could be empty to keep weight down. I do think the FW design thinking was “what is the largest bipedal Titan we could make in 28mm” taking into account weight issues on knees and leg splaying. If they had no intention of a future 28mm version, why make Warmaster at all? Why not skip straight to an Imperator as per the background fluff? Why make up a new intermediate size Titan class?
Glad to see some more cheesethoughts! My opinion on the Warmaster price is that it would be Too Damn High, but as you mention, people have been buying Warlords and the smaller Titans a lot, so who knows, maybe they'd sell a couple of dozen of those monsters!
A better thought: Who will try to build a high quality one on their own? With 3D printers, scanners and the quarter scale models all in ready reach, it's just a matter of effort to make your own full scale version.
Great to see a new video from the Big Cheese.
Spot on. The guess was the same most of us had without the math.
Imagine the price of Overlord flyer if they ever make it, easily over 800£
Yay!!! The return of leakycheese!!!
Great to see a new video from Mr Cheese. Missed your awesome reviews and insight.
I'd buy one despite the cost. It'll be crazy as it would be fw resin but it'll need to be done . Bucket list
I’m thinking I could liqudate part of my stash to make it happen… we only live once, right?
Matches my far less mathematical estimates, expecting £2,500-£3,000, probably closer to the 3 because of the chunkiness. It seems practical as a model though and looks like it was designed at the larger scale as, like the AT Warlord, it has sockets modelled on the side of the body for the pistons that attach to the upper arms, even though the pistons are only present on the full size version.
Thinking of 3d printing a full size warmaster!
A mighty undertaking! Good luck 👍
God lord man, you did R2 values. I knew you were my favourite for a reason!
PLEASE make more videos! I just finished a Fellblade based on your videos! THANK YOU SO MUCH!
Thanks Mike, I'm glad those helped you out :)
Yay, welcome back cheese, mist your content, glad to see you back,
Cheers mate, hope you are doing good :)
TH-cam hasn't been showing me your videos sir. I got worried and am glad you are still posting.
I'm pretty sure the cost of a Warmaster Titan would include a marriage/relationship on top of your calculations. 🤣
Funnily enough I looked at your first images (size comparisons I mean) and thought 3K
It'd be a damn beauty of a monster though if we were to get one!
Just when ya thought he was done, the Cheese comes back! Noice.
Interesting topic. And I think you’d be about right. My initial guess was in the 2.5-3k mark. Easily. Would I buy one? Nah. I’ve only ever wanted a warhound. Got two AT ones and a full size one now so I’m groovy. I do, however know a good few who would buy one. I think I’d be very interested in seeing how they would also make the kit.
I've been lurking.... like a wheel of cheddar hiding in the pantry 🧀
Fun fact: Warhounds are awesome in Adeptus Titanicus rules... mine finished off a Warlord at the Titan Walk in November.
After seeing your numbers, my best guess would be around 3500£, or maybe 4500USD. Just my guess. I wouldn't buy one, not for even 2k USD. My money isn't that plentiful. But it great to see a fresh video Cheese! Miss you lots. 👍
I expected an above 3.000 pound price from the math alone. I think the Chungus Factor (C) is already considered with the plastic kit being more expensive.
Sherlock Leaky solves another GW mystery! LOL! I'd prefer they go plastic with all these models and save use thousands of pounds in the process.
Plastic full-size titans are the elephant in the room for sure.... they need high volume sales to make a financial success of plastic production, so the obvious first step would be the Warhound.
Although I did hear a rumour (from Valrak IIRC) that plastic Cerastus Knights are coming soon - that would be fab.
@@leakycheese I agree. Creating a plastic mold for a titan kit would be very expensive, but would also sell like crazy for $300-400.
Damn he thicc cant wait for 1m tall castigator class relic stc to be found on one of forgotten forgeworlds if you know what i mean😏
*Wink*
Talking of insane titan models, the scratch build Imperator that was at last months Titan Walk was about 2m tall... bigger than my children! 😆
@@leakycheese bigger than almost anyone really 😳 but i still await the day when somekind of land gunship bigger than a baneblade rolls out since already there are some primaris super heavies bigger than baney
I laughed harder than i should have at the "Chungus Factor"
My efforts on making this were not wasted I see :D
Glad to see a new video sir. What are your thoughts on HH 2.0.
Thanks, how’s it going? Heresy 2.0 is very good as a game (reactions make for a more tactical and involving game for both players), Marine armies are great, Mechanicum and Liber Imperium are decent but not at same quality. Legacies are a hilarious mess… some units are necessary and fine (e.g. Castra Ferrum Dreadnoughts and Carnodon) others are meh (anything on a Baneblade chassis, overpointed at 750 a pop vs. Fellblsde chassic tanks) and some are broken “That Guy” units (like the Fulmentarus and Loctarus).
@@leakycheese I’m doing well. Full disclosure, I’m the same guy that came across as a troll on your Mark VI video. I honestly didn’t mean to come across harsh, I just disagreed (and still do). Still, I reread what I wrote and I see how it sounds. Apologies.
As far as 2.0, I’m not really feeling it. Note I’m a Salamanders player. I just don’t understand how the one thing we get, flamers, are useless against terminators. Terminators always had their invuln, but now they have two wounds plus a rerollable armour save. Not fair.
Also, i don’t especially appreciate how much artillery was nerfed. In my experience, I feel that the new rules have actually condensed the army list selections you see in games. Everyone I played against is bringing massive blobs and several contemptors. Gone are the days when you see things like sicaran Venators and flyers. It’s a shame IMO because there are so many beautiful vehicle models for HH that are being ported to plastic, but people don’t play them. Even Leviathans are not efficient.
GW made some big mistakes from a business perspective IMO. Why nerf tanks when you are bringing them to plastic? A disconnect between the people who are responsible for rules writing and the execs who are concerned with bottom line.
Anyway, any chance we can have an army showcase? I always wanted to see that Word Bearers collection.
Always great to see a new post! Hoping you & yours enjoy the holiday season
In the first instance I’d like to see them release the psi Titan, which would only require a new head, weapon arm and carapace on top of the existing warlord. Personally I feel they didn’t quite hit aesthetically with the design with these later titans (Warmaster and dire wolf)
The Psi-Titan is an interesting one, essentially being an upgrade kit to the Warlord. The design work is done so I hope we get the full-size one soon.
I was just filling a part seam (poorly) and thinking of your videos what a treat to get a new one! I wonder what a price projection based on number of parts in the kit be. Or how many molds it would take to cast a warmaster titan I would think that if FW wanted a profitable kit and not a "halo" kit to borrow an auto industry term they would want the value they get out of each mood to be even higher than Normal as it would not be a fast selling kit. The other thought I had is if you look at the amount of mas above the hip joints it seems like a lot and while I'm not a materials scientist or engineer I would be concerned about all that weight supported by standard forgeworld resin. Did I hear somewhere that carbon fiber rods are recommend as pins in the larger titans or am i making that up? Thank for the thought provoking video.
I remember an interview when they first released the Warlord that they couldn’t build anything bigger specifically because the Warlord was the largest thing they could make in resin without it bowing under its own weight. And let me tell you, resin isn’t exactly the longest lasting of substances structurally.
Welcome back Nathan!
In terms of the production economics of resin casting, a silicone mould is going to do 30-40 casts (or pulls) before requiring replacement (or quite a few more if it's been properly vulcanised).
So for a Forge World model, the main up-front investment is in the digital design process and printing and preparation of the master model (which are 3D-printed and require clean up to remove printing strata-lines). So the probably don't need to sell that many to recoup these costs (especially as they've already paid for most of the design on the Warmaster with making it's epic variant).
In terms of being able to support it's own weight, I've got a Warhound and a Warlord and these have been fine over several years of ownership. I reinforce joints with metal pins, sometimes several per joint, but the legs are strong enough to support the model's weight. Now, some poses might need through-limb pinning if they impose forces on the limbs high enough to cause the resin to bend over time. I've used carbon-fibre rod on the waist pin and arm weapon mounts... but that was in part due to there being an offcut of the right size in the bargain bin at my hobby store! But yeah, CF would be a good material to do through-limb pinning, it's easy to get at flying and other RC model stores.
Finally the Warmaster - will it be able to support it's own weight as a full size resin kit? Personally, I think it has stout legs, notably more so that the Warlord on a like-for-like basis so I think those would be strong enough to support the massive body. On thr other hand, the Suzerain Plasma Annihilators are massive and I think the elbows would need some hefty pinning to make secure.
Glad you enjoyed the video... if we do by some chance get a full-size Warmaster maybe I'll buy one and find out how to solve all these challenges!
@@leakycheese great answer thanks for sharing you expertise and experience.
You know what would have a bigger market? Plastic Titans! They’d cost half as much as the resin versions, weigh half as much, and triple maybe quadruple the number of people would be able to afford them, possibly more. But what do I know, only that plastic heresy has been a massive success for GW, with kits selling out almost as soon as they come in even with items being hard to keep in stock
Yeah plastic would be the way to go, I have a feeling it would be roughly 80% that of a warlord resin version would be, obviously it's going to be cheaper then a resin one but it's alot more plastic perhaps 75%. I guess they could make the upgrade kits like the head and weapons and keep in resin, but the body in plastic. One major hint, look at the cover of the Age of Darkness box, look at what is displayed in the image. I'm pretty sure there is a prototype of this, all part of their 5 year plan I guess.
Based on current FW prices, kits seem to be around two thirds of the cost the resin versions.
I think next year will be interesting to see what comes about for the heresy. There are a lot of missing plastic kits for basic legion unit choices (Assault Squads, Seekers, Recon, Bikes, Jet Bikes, Speeders etc.) so I wonder if they'll focus on those?
In terms of big things though, I hear a rumour that Cerastus Knights are coming soon in plastic.
@@leakycheese yes the knights first, I think next year will be a new age of darkness 2 boxset with different mark armour and X2 different legions on he cover, no all knights next year I figure will be plastic but guns and weapons maybe finecast. Perhaps they will do alternative heads in finecast aswell. Perhaps we may even see a new space marine race next year, rumors of a new chaos god are being talked about in AOS and 40k so I imagine there would be new law coming in, perhaps plastic warhound in 2 years, reaver titan in 3 years followed by the warlord and perhaps the warbring titan. I'd love if GW had a magazine where we would subscribe and build a titan in the hachette part works style. Perhaps this would open the door to new types of titans. All hypothetical ofc. I think the knights going plastic is a good chance of this, and new mark armours in plastic for sure.
Technically, you shouldn't do a linear regression on such a small sample, but I still think it's clear that the price ratios are incredibly consistent.
Nice video 👍
I used the linear regression because the price ratios are so consistent. And don’t forget the data I used here isn’t a sample - for the phenomenon being studied it’s the entire population. Glad you enjoyed the video.
@@leakycheese Ah, yes it is the entire population! I'm not used to seeing that! Good point.
@@devononair Lol, yes, the entire population is a rarity in statistical analysis!
Omg, i dont have enough boxers if Forgeworld release a Waemaster full-size. And i think Leakys brain would explode 😘 ps: warlords is one of the few my wife love so I had bought it ;)
I would buy one!
If forgeworld? You mean when! It'll come eventually!!! 🤣
Lovely video.
One day when I win the lottery I will have Titans 😅
Did you ever build a FW Reaver Titan?
We can all dream!
I've not built a FW Reaver Titan, done the Warhound and Warlord.
If its around 2.5k vulturum will be getting one
Use it as a mobile defence wall to charge in while the Fistlords sneak along behind it!
Surely be made to order & if they do different weapon loadouts they are gonna be hundreds by themselves. Would consider buying done buy in the current climate I doubt it will see the light of day.Great video to contemplate though.
There's also the factor: how many will we sell. Not sure it makes much of an impact at these volumes - I guess a similar number of people would stump up 1500 as 3000 quid for a titan.
Probably the chungus factor makes up for that good enough 👍
The man, the myth the legend is back.
I think they could build any Títan and charge what they want and still make money on it. People have to much money in this hobby 😂
Rumours of my demise were greatly exaggerated!
I think there's probably a price at which essentially no one would buy a Warmaster. But there are plenty of people with disposable income for hobbies in general.... airsoft, flying RC models, scuba diving, airsoft, motorbikes etc. etc..
From forgeworld the cost would be your firstborn child.
Or tradable body parts? 😅
@@leakycheese I don't think they'd accept the black market value of a kidney.
Ill let you know how much after I finish printing it, give me a year or so hahaha
Looking forward to it! XD
Yes, I would buy it out of spite, but then regret it later, unless I win a lottery ticket, only then this would be justified and vindicated. Lol
Spite buying a Warmaster Titan gave me actual lols 😂
I don t think they LL ever produce one but your guess is quiet right. I'ld bet at 2.8 without weapon and creeping on 3k with.
But I have allreyseen a full heroic scale one done with a 3d printing part and a scan of the plastic one.
Hello!
I still have your Custodians and Mechanicum book! Drop me an email at Leakycheese@tutanota.com and we can sort it out. I'm also on Instagram and Twitter.
£2500
Even at those price ranges, a model of that scale WILL sell. Doesn't matter when or who but it will sell, I'd imagine fast too.
So, about 10 dollars less than a real one.
"Amazing model"...........erm, at this point this thing is a statue.
Definitely small enough to be mistaken for a toddler.
If you have to ask 😏
So you’d get one to keep the collection up to date?
@@leakycheese I’d get one because they look awesome and would be a challenge to build. Sure the others would like the company too.
Would be more interesting if it was plastic.